McKelvin stealing spotlight; starting spot to follow?

by Brian Galliford on Nov 24, 2008 8:33 AM EST in Opinion Comment 46 comments

McKelvin becoming a factor in stretch run (buffalobills.com)

Ten weeks into his rookie season, fans and "experts" - the most notable "expert" being the ever-delightful Jerry Sullivan of The Buffalo News - had inexplicably already pulled out the term "bust" when discussing Buffalo Bills rookie cornerback Leodis McKelvin. Ten weeks into his rookie season, there was reason to be disappointed with the rookie, however. McKelvin had made little impact defensively, given up plenty of big plays, and had been rather pedestrian as a kick returner. Still, to term any rookie a "bust" after nine games is a bit ridiculous.

To say that McKelvin has exploded onto the scene over the past two weeks is an understatement.

It started on Monday Night Football against the Cleveland Browns, when McKelvin - filling in for an injured Jabari Greer in the second half - shut down dangerous Browns WR Donte' Stallworth. His 98-yard kickoff return for a score kept the Bills in that game, despite the fact that after four offensive turnovers, they had no business being alive in the first place.

Then came yesterday's break-out performance at Kansas City. McKelvin intercepted the first two passes of his career, returning the first one for a 64-yard touchdown to give the Bills the lead for good. He was also explosive once again in the return game, returning the opening kickoff of the second half 46 yards to set up Trent Edwards' second rushing TD and a 37-17 Bills lead.

That's not to say the kid's been perfect. His coverage has improved tremendously, but his technique is still lacking to the point that he can get turned around on occasion and give up big plays. His run support is not great, either - the kid tackles well, but he routinely takes bad angles and has trouble shedding blocks. He was engulfed on several long Larry Johnson runs yesterday when he was responsible for contain.

But he's still a rookie. When you're playing with any rookie in this league, you take the good with the bad. For McKelvin the past two weeks, the explosive good has outweighed the bad by several miles.

Said McKelvin after yesterday's stellar performance in KC:

"It felt great. It felt like I was in college, where my first pick went for a touchdown. I'm just out there trying to do my job. Basically what they tell me in practice is mind your own business, do your own job and things will come your way. I've been working very hard in practice and it's starting to pay off."

Head coach Dick Jauron piled on:

"We're obviously thrilled with the way he played today and the way he's come along."

It's not exactly necessary to point out that "experts" like Sullivan who called McKelvin out earlier in the season are eating their words this morning. Bills fans have been spoiled a bit with the solid rookie contributions of players like Donte Whitner, Edwards, Marshawn Lynch and several others during Jauron's tenure as this team's coach. Maybe the Bills were at a point where they didn't need a rookie to perform immediately, maybe not; either way, what's forgotten is the fact that making the leap from tiny Troy to the NFL isn't exactly easy. DeMarcus Ware did it in Dallas, but not even Giants star Osi Umenyiora was an instant-impact guy as a second-round pick (he registered just one sack as a rookie). When you draft a small-school guy - and for its growing reputation, Troy is undoubtedly small - development takes time. Leo is still developing.

But it's time to toss the "bust" label to the wayside. McKelvin has arrived, and once he learns consistency, he should very quickly assert himself as one of the very best corners in this league.

Poll

Should Leo remain a starter when CB Jabari Greer returns from injury?

Yes! Play Greer in the slot.

73 votes

Yes! Play McGee in the slot.

50 votes

No! His true value is as a sub-package/return man.

63 votes

No! McGee and Greer are fine.

85 votes

271 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

His time has come....

Leo looked great, but you are right Brian… He is still a rookie and should go back into the slot when Jabari comes back… He will, in about 2 years be considered one of the best corners in the league… It’s nice to discuss a win… it’s only been 5 weeks…

BILLS RULE !

by chaosthepitbull on Nov 24, 2008 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

wow

all I’ll say, after watching his pick 6 about 10 x last night is WOW….the kid is so fast! I mean, he picks it and immediately turns into “HOW DO I SCORE.”

He seeems to be able to blanket guys, while Greer has some of that ability too. McGee is more of a great tackler, sound in technique, but lacks the ability to blanket guys like McKelvin and Greer can. Or maybe Greer/McKelvin take more chances and have better instincts. I almost think McGee would be much better in the slot, out-physicalling guys and leavn the man stuff to McKelvin & Greer. Either way it is super exciting to see a #11 pick make plays in his rookie year

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Nov 24, 2008 9:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Terrence McGee

Terrence is no doubt the best cover corner we have on our football team. Remember, McGee always covers the other team’s number 1 receiver. At times it may appear Greer has better coverage, but remember, Greer covers # 2 receivers.

McGee’s best spot is definitely at the #1 corner spot.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 24, 2008 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Other rookies

Did I seriously see Ellis on the field during a highlight? Did he do anything notable at all??

by thefourwinds on Nov 24, 2008 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand why everyone feels it absolutely necessary for all of our rookies to immediately contribute. Did I see Ellis contribute anything of note? No. Did I see Chris Kelsay contribute anything of note? Well, it depends on if you count the time he got completely sucked in on KC’s second TD (play action fake, rollout). Side note: If I coached an NFL team, and I was playing the Bills, I would run play action, rollout passes on every single play, and I’m fairly confidant the Bills defensive ends would bite on it every single time.

Other than McKelvin, I don’t think any of our defenders contributed anything notable. Poz was pretty non-existent. Mitchell played horrendous. McGee made zero plays and got beat several times. Ko Simpson continues to take horrible angles which result in huge offensive plays. Why should Ellis get singled out?

by thatguy34 on Nov 24, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

great points. I understand how people expect a first round pick to contribute, but expectations for the rest of this rookie class were way too high. I was hoping for 15 or so tackles and 2-3 sacks from Ellis as a situational pass rusher. I’m dissapointed that we aren’t going to get that production, but we shouldn’t be too hard on the kid. If he has a bad preseason next year, we can get the Ellis is a dissapointment talk started.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way I'm being too hard on Ellis

I asked if he did anything. I didn’t see the game.

Also, given how miserably horrible the Bills’ pass rush has been this season, I don’t think it’s asking too much to see the guy take the field. It’s not like he was a 7th rounder. If I’m not mistaken, this is the first time all season he’s even taken the field. That’s asking too much?

I have never been too hard on either McKelvin or Hardy this year, nor was I hard on Corner when he totally whiffed on the corner blitz against Brady Quinn. Nor was I too hard on Johnson when he dropped the first ball that hit him in the hands against the Browns. I simply noticed he was on the field during a highlight and asked about his production.

by thefourwinds on Nov 24, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis has seen the field in a handful of other games as well, though not in as extensive a manner as yesterday. Blowout wins will do that for you.

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by Brian Galliford on Nov 24, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Copeland Bryan getting knicked up helped Ellis get some time as well.

by karovda on Nov 24, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I didn’t mean you specifically. I was just responding to the basic message of thatguy34s post. There has certainly been enough concern over the rookies to validate our posts, but definitely not from you.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was hard on McKelvin earlier when he was doing nothing returning kicks. He showed no instincts and no ability to make a cut to the open field. The last few weeks has been night and day, and he’s relying on skill, instinct and speed. He looks so much better returning kicks and is really starting to impress on D. I don’t think anyone was too hard on him before because he just didn’t look good at all.

Hardy on the other hand just doesn’t look like he’ll ever be good enough to be an every down, big time WR. He’s so slow and methodical, and sure hasn’t learned to use his body to his advantage yet….

Ellis, who knows? He’s got some talent, but he has shown the least of any of our rookies who have played. I’d say he looks like another guy out there expect that’s how you describe our other DE’s, so he might even be looking worse than that….

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bills ends and playaction

The bootleg play you are talking about was after a 63 yd run by Larry Johnson. I don’t know if you can blame the defense for biting on the fake after a 63 yard run. I watch every game the Bills play and defensive end containment doesn’t seem out of the ordinary in a bad way.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 24, 2008 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if you can blame the defense for biting on the fake after a 63 yard run.

So everytime the defense lets up a big play, I should expect them to let up another big play because they’re reeling from the first one?

And if you haven’t seen the Bills consistently miss containment on rollouts, then it’s you that doesn’t “watch any tape.”

by thatguy34 on Nov 25, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, you shouldn’t expect the Bills to keep letting up big plays one after another. But, I’m just saying that play action is effective if the running game is effective. Play action is directly correlated with good running.

I agree with you that the Bills need to address this problem, no doubt. I think they can best address the problem buy not giving up such big plays on the ground. I don’t believe buffalo would bite on the play fakes if they didn’t think they had to over commit to stop the run.

I think the big problem is that Bills defenders are not filling their gaps fast enough, and when they do, sometimes they don’t tackle. It’s just hard to expect a defense to be able to stop a playaction fake when a team is running the ball down their throats. So…if we stop the run, then I think we should be able to deal with the playaction fakes.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Leo looks good and maybe finally be the playmaker we need in the secondary, at least one of them.

If he continues playing well and shows he deserves to be a starter, I think McGee needs to become the 3rd CB when/if Greer returns. I’m getting sick of watching McGee get embarrassed every week allowing big play after big play, as well as all the short stuff thrown near him. He is playing way too passive and it’s killing us, and definitely killed us the Dolphins and Browns. His play has really hurt us and is part of the reason we lost those games. He’s gotta play better or take a seat….

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree K. I’m not sure how, but somehow McGee got this reputation of being a good corner. He has average cover skills at best. His real value was in the return game. Prior to Greer establishing himself last year, McGee was all we had and essentially, he was the best corner we had on the team (by default). Maybe that’s how people started associating him with the word good, instead of calling him “the best corner on a team full of bad corners.” Now, McGee doesn’t even need to return kicks so what’s his real value to this team? Backup KR?

Anyway, if McKelvin can continue to improve (and I have no reason to believe he won’t), I would rather go with Greer and McKelvin as our two corners. It’s a tough call given how inexperienced McKelvin is, he’s likely to miss a coverage here and there and potentially get beat deep. But, you have to pick your poison. Do you want to play McKelvin with his big play potential but the possibility of getting beat deep, or do you wanna play McGee and allow the other team to run 10-15 yard outs or curls all day long? Personally, I’d rather throw the kid in and take your chances.

Too bad Greer’s contract is up after this season and not McGee’s….

by thatguy34 on Nov 24, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought McGee had been a pretty good CB for us for the past handful of years. That was when he played more tight coverage and was much more aggressive. I don’t know if his knee is still bothering him, but he is just so passive out there now. EVERY time he plays off the WR, he gets burnt. We saw him play some tight coverage early against Cleveland and had some great success. When he started playing back more and not manning up the receivers as he had been, he got embarrassed again.

I do like McGee’s ability to help support the run. He’s better than any other CB on the team at that, with Youboty being pretty good too. Greer and McKelvin aren’t good in that area.

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. I think the knee has to be bothering either physically or mentally. He has been terrible playing off the ball lately and I thought he looked pretty good when Fewell always had the corners 7-8 yards off the line during the first 4 or 5 games. So if McGee was pretty good off the ball before the injury and absolutely awful since the injury, it has to be bothering him still.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm….perhaps I just have a short memory then, but I’ve never been a huge fan of McGee’s cover skills. Regardless, we are certainly in agreement that his current play leaves much to be desired.

by thatguy34 on Nov 24, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not being a smart a$$ but....

He looked o.k. running down Larry Johnson….adrenaline rush maybe?

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 24, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and that was in reference to his health....

not his play…..

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 24, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it might be in his head. Coming back too soon and getting ripped up by Ginn is causing him to play tentative like he is still only at 80 or 90%. It’s a theory at least.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea how you don’t know how McGee got his reputation of being a good corner. It’s because he’s a really good corner and he plays extremely well. Do you or any other of the people saying he should be the #3 DB watch any tape?

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 24, 2008 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can’t you make an argument without ripping people? Disagree; don’t bash. Come on.

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by Brian Galliford on Nov 24, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll try not to bash as much.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

GO watch this year’s tape. he’s been very poor. He was much better in prior years. If that’s due to his knee injury, then that’s what it is, but there’s no denying how poorly he’s played the past 4-5 weeks…..

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know how you can make an argument without actually making a point. Provide some stats, an anecdote, something.

by thatguy34 on Nov 25, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

was that response to me or the people saying he should be the #3 corner?

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A response to you. You are essentially saying, “McGee’s a good corner because I say so.” I certainly respect your opinion that you believe McGee’s a good corner, but I disagree with you. I’ve never been a huge fan of McGee’s cover skills. I think he is very good in run support and is obviously a very talented return man, but he struggles often (and it may be because he is better suited to play man instead of zone).

He can’t play 7 or 8 yards off the ball because he can’t change directions quick enough, doesn’t react quickly, doesn’t have quick enough feet, etc. So teams can run outs and curls on him all day. Its been made worse this year by his injury. He may also be compensating for a fear of the double move as I seem to recall him getting beat more frequently earlier in his career (this I can’t substantiate – I just seem to remember it happening). Whatever the reason, in the scheme Fewell runs, I think he struggles to be a “good corner.” I think he’s average, as I posted above, and I believe Greer is a better corner in the system we run. Additionally, I think McKelvin, with his athleticism, will pass McGee in terms of ability soon, although he hasn’t done so yet.

Feel free to disagree with me, just provide some sort of evidence or explanation to back it up. I’ll admit; I have been wrong before (I think it was back in ’92 or something….j/k).

by thatguy34 on Nov 25, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t mean to be a smart allic, but none of you provided an stats for why he is not performing as well. I also respect you opinion, however, i was just really surprised to see these posts.

I don’t recall Terrence giving up many big plays this season. I remember him making some unbelievable interceptions and covering extremely well. It is true that ted ginn burned him in miami. But ted ginn would probably burn leodis and jabari as well. Again, i don’t have any stats to support that but I just believe that it’s true.

I have full faith in Dick Jauron, a guy who was a defensive backs coach for many years, to know who is the best corner on the team. Not to mention our db coach and our d-coordinator. I’m not suggesting that coaches always make the right decisions, but I think because Jauron’s expertise is in DB’s specifically, that he would not who should be the #1.

Also, I don’t mean to take away from Jabari’s play of Leodis’ play. Because they have been HUGE playmakers for our football team, and have played great. They just don’t have experience covering #1 receivers. The only way for us to know if they would be better options would be to assign them to the other team’s number 1 guy. I would just not be willing to take that risk with jabari over leodis.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry about the grammar, hopefully you can make out what i was trying to say.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is true that ted ginn burned him in miami. But ted ginn would probably burn leodis and jabari as well.

Ginn went for 175 yards with McGee covering him. He has averaged 42 yards per game against other corners. Ginn averaged twice as many yards per catch against McGee as he has the rest of the year. Greer wouldn’t have gotten burned by Ginn in the slightest.

I agree with everyone on this subject. I agree with you and I think McGee is our best corner. But he hasn’t been the same since his injury; in fact, he has been awful since the injury. Bowe and Bradley were pretty much held in check on Sunday, so maybe McGee is starting to return to his old form though.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you implying that if a receiver has an above average game than the corner who is covering him must not be playing well? I honestly just don’t know what you are trying to say. Every db has a bad play or two.

I just think that a lot of people on this board are basing McGee’s talent as a player off a couple of plays. Which, i think you agree is unfair.

To suggest that leodis is a better corner than McGee is a little immature. I mean just because Leodis had two int’s doesn’t make him a better corner. It just means that he had to int’s. I really don’t see how anyone here thinks leodis is better than McGee. Maybe Jabari Greer, but its a bit ridiculous to put Leodis ahead of Mcgee at this point in his career.

by buffaloboy90 on Nov 25, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

coming late to the discussion

but I do agree that I don’t think its fair for us all to dismiss McGee after one injury plagued career. Personally, I think we have three talented corners, and that is amazing.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 25, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you implying that if a receiver has an above average game than the corner who is covering him must not be playing well?

What’s wrong with that? When Ted Ginn catches 7 balls for 175 yards and McGee is covering him on every play, how is it not Ok to say that McGee didn’t play well. Or when Braylon Edwards catches 3 more ball than he has all year for his second highest yardage total of the season against McGee, how can someone not say he had a bad game?

I totally agree with you that McGee has the best combination of talent and experience of all our corners, but his play post-injury has been terrible. I think he will get back to his old self and be a solid starter for us again next year, if not earlier. I agree that people have overreacted to his recent performances, but how can you not notice how awful he has been since returning from injury?

I just think that a lot of people on this board are basing McGee’s talent as a player off a couple of plays.

Not a couple of plays, but a couple of games, which is still unfair.

To suggest that leodis is a better corner than McGee is a little immature.

I never did and I agree that it is too soon for that kind of talk.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My request was that you provide some sort of explanation or backing for your argument – be it stats, analysis, explanation, or a fun little story. I understand it is difficult to provide stats for corners (unless you pay for KC Joyner’s analysis – which I considered doing until I found out it’s $40).

My point about giving up big plays was in regards to previous seasons, not this one. And he only has 2 interceptions on the year, one in each of the first two games, but I don’t believe a ton of interceptions necessarily create a good CB, nor does a lack of interceptions create a poor CB.

Anyway, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Go Bills!

by thatguy34 on Nov 25, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

which is what I referred to above…..McGee is strong & physical but lacks the cover ability of Greer & McKelvin, so why not have McGee play the slot and be physical with those Welker’s of the world and re-route them? Plus I think McGee could be a good candidate for a blitzer out of that nickel spot being he is strong enough to take on RB’s and FB’s and TE’s. I see great value there.

I’ll admit it. Being so hard on Hardy & McKelvin this season is flawed, bc rookies just take time. I’m as guility as anyone. But if these guys turn out, it will do wonders for the future of this football team as the TALENT level is slowly climbing to a top 15 talent level and with a couple more solid draft classes, top 10, is within reach. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRAFT!!!! WHICH IS WHY THE NFL DRAFT IS A DRUG I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO QUIT

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Nov 24, 2008 12:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRAFT!!!! WHICH IS WHY THE NFL DRAFT IS A DRUG I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO QUIT

haha. It really is like a drug in that people just don’t understand how we can love it so much and talk about it at any time of the year until they try it out for themselves.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have refered to myself as a draft-junkie on several different occasions. My friends and family make fun of my ability to sit and watch the draft through to its end.

Thats one reason why I love it here at Rumblings, there are so many people just like me. :)

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Nov 24, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh man

I love watching the draft beginning to end. All you need is beer and a couch.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 24, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and snacks! and a Todd McShay mute button wouldn’t hurt.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really need Time Warner Cable to pick up the NFL network, so I don’t get stuck watching the ESPN coverage only. At least if I had NFLN I could switch to it when ESPN got to overly annoying and vice versa.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Nov 24, 2008 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The draft, if you love football, is addictive.

Last year, no mock had Leo falling out of the top ten. No pundit or guru either. That’s what is so addictive. You never know.

We dropped Time Warner cause of no NFL Network. Went to DIrectTV and couldn’t be happier.

The thing about Leo that will be interesting to watch going forward is if teams will kick to him on kickoffs. Either way, we win by getting great field position!

everything goes better with bacon

by keuka121 on Nov 24, 2008 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

McKelvin had a great game against a bad team. I think that the term bust was completely uncalled for, and those who threw it around should be forced to eat their words. That said, I don’t think we need to throw him into a starting role. If Greer is out for a few more weeks and McKelvin continues to develop, then great, but it’s not the worst thing in the world if he’s just a situational player for the rest of this season. I have no problem with starting him, but I also understand the idea of taking things slowly to try to limit rookie mistakes. McGee’s run support is valuable and he isn’t a bad CB, and I’m a pretty big Greer fan. I think Leo should probably be starting next season, but if he remains a backup for the rest of this year I won’t be disappointed at all.
As for our other draft picks, I’d like to see some more, but I’m not worried. I think that at least one of Johnson or Hardy will turn out to be a pretty good receiver. Ellis may be a bust, but he still has time to prove us wrong, and I hope that he will.

by Hopefulcynic on Nov 24, 2008 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs