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Cornerbacks

I would like to follow up on Brian's post about McKelvin stealing the spotlight after I noticed that there was a lot of discussion on McGee and his future with the team. To me it seems that the Buffalo Bills have more than a few options in regards to the direction they want to take the corner back position.

Star-divide

1. ) Let Greer Walk- In what could be the simplest answer to what our corner situation will be next year, the Bills can simply elect to let Jabari Greer test the free agent market and move forward with McGee and McKelvin, the McLovin Duo as the starters. Of course this would leave the team with one starter who is approaching 30 and another who is still just a kid. Considering that Reggie Corner may never develop into a starting caliber corner and Ashton Youboty is too unreliable in terms of injuries and performance, the Bills would likely have to use a draft choice this year or next on an heir to McGee's spot.

2.) Move McGee to the Slot- Of course, Buffalo could keep Greer and slide McGee inside as our third corner to let him play physical while leaving Greer and McKelvin on the outside. For this to work I think it is clear that the front office would somehow have to placate McGee's probably hurt ego by explaining that they are simply trying to utilize his strengths to make him a better player and that his role with the team hasn't diminished. I don't know if he'd buy it, but I would love the team to have three great corners. The Eagles were able to make Lito Sheppard accept such a role so you never know.

3.) Let McKevlin Learn Another Year- The shelf life of great returners in this league is short so the Bills could elect to keep McKelvin as our main returner while giving him another year at the nickel to develop into a smarter player. It may be hard to justify leaving such explosiveness out of the starting lineup however.

4.) Move McGee to Free Safety - This to me is the best answer. A team can never have enough secondary talent on the field and with three starting capable corners moving McGee to FS could allow us to field McGee, Greer, McKelvin and Whitner all at the same time. That is an excellent secondary right there if you ask me. If we come out in a nickel we could even slide McGee back into the slot and put Scott in at safety. I think this could be an excellent way to maximize the level of talent the Bills put on the field.

5.) Trade McGee - As a follow to the fact that a team can never have enough talented corners is that McGee could probably bring us in a quite a haul in a trade. Whether it is draft picks, a player for player trade, or some combination. There would be more than a few teams interested in picking up a great corner back which means the competition and level of compensation for the Bills could be very high.

Poll
Which situation at cornerback would you most want to see for next year?
Let Greer Walk
2 votes
Move McGee to the Slot
14 votes
Let McKelvin Learn Another Year
12 votes
Move McGee to Free Safety
27 votes
Trade McGee
2 votes
Other (explain)
3 votes

60 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings.

1 recs | Comment 46 comments

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the McLovin Duo

Sweet.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Nov 24, 2008 3:52 PM EST   0 recs

haha

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 24, 2008 4:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I can’t see McGee and his size being a FS.

~K

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 4:28 PM EST   0 recs

and resigning Greer and moving him or McGee to the slot is the smartest move the team can make. We’ve had so many injury issues at the position the last few years, why would we want to lose depth?

~K

by Kurupt on Nov 24, 2008 4:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ehhh....

A little too short…

BTW, since the topic is CB… Is it bad that REALLY enjoyed watching Nate Clements getting scorched by T.O. yesterday?

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 24, 2008 4:36 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Nothing wrong with that

But he also knocked Jason Witten the hell out and I really miss watching him do that.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 24, 2008 4:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Bob Sanders is an undersized free safety, although he is one of the hardest hitters in this league, and either way I see the potential for making plays from Mcgee there than with Simpson.

by Fam_1st on Nov 28, 2008 3:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, everyone brings up Bob Sanders, but they fail to mention that the guy is hurt more than any other player in the league.

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by Brian Galliford on Nov 28, 2008 5:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

True....

But that dude also plays with reckless abandon…he is a certified beast whenever he does make it on the field

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 29, 2008 1:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

No

I think moving McGee to FS is actually the worst (and least likely) option. McGee would have to learn a new position and there is already a log-jam at safety and a lack of depth at corner. Youboty will most likely not be back and I’m honestly not sure if the Bills will re-sign Greer. I think they ought to, but it will depend on how much Greer commands. You need 3 good corners in the NFL and if the Bills are willing blow $6 mill a year on a guy like Kelsay, then we should be willing to pay a guy like Greer because he actually makes a difference for our defense. And if any player was moved to the slot, I think it should be Greer because he’s the best we have at sticking to receivers (which is harder to do in the slot because you can’t use the sideline as an extra defender). And Greer is a humble player and I don’t think he would care if he played outside on run sets and inside on passing sets.

The bottom line for me is that we should try to keep Greer because we can’t immediately replace him. If Buffalo was smart, they would do it now before Greer hits the market. I bet the Pats would love to sign him.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Nov 24, 2008 4:33 PM EST   0 recs

The Pats

oh man…if went to the Pats I would never forgive the Bills. Good point about Greer being humble but I don’t think he would be that humble if hes a free agent who could get money to be a starter somewhere else. In the end, these guys are football players and they want to go where they will play.

I also don’t know how hard it would be for McGee to pick up FS, many aging corners have done it, Troy Vincent for example, as have many younger players, Antrel Rolle of the Cardinals. With his knowledge of the game and his toughness, his speed could be a serious factor as a safety.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 24, 2008 4:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Rod Woodson was another

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Nov 24, 2008 4:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I totally agree except for a couple things …..

Youboty will most likely not be back

Actually, Youboty is under contract through next season and will most definitely be back. His salary will be a modest 500K. If anything I think Buffalo locks him up for a few additional years this offseason.

If Buffalo was smart, they would do it now before Greer hits the market.

True, but I think it is too late for that. I’m sure Greer’s agent wouldn’t let him sign a deal this close to hitting the open market unless it was for at least market value. So what’s the difference between signing him now and giving McKelvin and Corner until the end of the season to see what you have and give the scouts time to look at the CBs who will be in the draft and other pro players who are potential free agents.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 6:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Why would Youboty not be back next year? He’s not a free agent!

by Fam_1st on Nov 28, 2008 3:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

“if the Bills are willing blow $6 mill a year on a guy like Kelsay, then we should be willing to pay a guy like Greer because he actually makes a difference for our defense.” < lol

Starting Outside Corners in 08:
Greer
McKelvin

Starting Slot:
McGee

Backup Outside:
Youboty
McGee

Backup Slot:
Corner
Youboty
Greer

GO BLUE!!!

by Kumario! on Nov 24, 2008 6:17 PM EST   0 recs

Youboty still has to be ahead of Corner on the depth chart at any spot a corner back might play, right?

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 6:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Greer

They will only pay him what a nickle corner would earn. If someone pays him more we just wont pay him. They need to pay Poz, Peters, Lynch, Edwards (Grrr), Whitner in the next 2 years and cant lock up that much on Greer. I like Greer alot but he wont be a Bill next year unless no other team pony’s up for him and he can stay at a cheap price. Whitner will move to FS in the offseason. Either Scott or a FA or Draft pick becomes SS.

by Berg79 on Nov 24, 2008 8:17 PM EST   0 recs

Marshawn is signed through 2011
Whitner is signed through 2011
Poz is signed through 2010 – I guess that is two years

Trent and Peters couls use new contracts and maybe Youboty, but that is it. The Bills have Fowler coming off the books and Denney might get cut too. I agree that might not be enough money to sign Greer, but the situation isn’t that dire.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 10:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Wasnt suggesting it was dire. Just suggesting that all those guys come up and Greer salary will be high. I doubt they let Whitner go into the last year of his contract unsigned (Same w. Marshawn). They dont want a S. Jax type holdout.

We do clear JP, Fowler, McCargo and maybe Denney. But F. Jax will cost a little bit, the will need to sign a backup QB, they will probably spend on a FA at 1 of these positions OLB, TE, C, or DT (maybe even SS).

So I predict they go next year w. McGee, McKelvin, Youb, Corner and either a draft pick or inexpensive veteran and then move Whitner to FS and have Ko Simpson as WHitner’s backup. If a top 4 corner gets hurt then they will use whitner at nickel CB and put Simpson at Free Safety in those subpackage. But as I say it depends on what Greer gets. I bet he gets a 16-20 million 4 year deal somewhere. I dont think the Bills want to spend more than a $10million/4 year deal.

by Berg79 on Nov 24, 2008 10:22 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

no way

the Bills are not THAT cheap. $10 mil over 4 years for starting corner??? That is just crazy talk. If we can lock up Greer for 4 years 16 million, which shouldn’t be that unimaginable, we definitely should. This team is never going to take the next step until it starts keeping talent. Greer is what 26 years old? That is very much worth the money. Plus, Trent Edwards has not yet earned a new deal, Peters can probably be had cheaper than last year, and Poz is essentially still playing his first year. We should have room.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 24, 2008 10:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Well technically, if the Bills resign Greer to the 4 year 20 mil contract you think he might get, he would recieve about 6 mil in signing bonus money and his salary would be a very reasonable 3 mil a season and would almost be over by the time Whitner and Lynch’s contracts are ending. I don’t think signing Greer to that kind of contract effects the Bills salary situation long term.

Poz is right ,10 mil over 4 years is a joke. The Bills should be willing to go at least as high as the 4 years, 20 mil that you mention because that might still be a bargain. I think he will get 5 or 6 years and 25-30 mil on the open market.

Clearing Losman’s salary is irrelevant. He only made 650K this year. If McCargo gets cut (am I the only one who thinks that he won’t?) that would clear a little room since he made 835K this year. He is only going to make 685K next year so I think he sticks around as a cheap 4th DT. Fowler is making 1.775 mil this year and Denney is at 2.3 mil this year.

If the Bills don’t sign Greer it will be because their salary is already pretty high and there isn’t too much money coming off the books. Trent could get a pay raise and so could Peters, but Lynch, Poz and Whitner couldn’t matter much less. you said that you doubt the Bills will let Whitner and Lynch go into the last year of their contracts, but that last season starts in over 2 and a half years. Lynch is even technically under contract through 2012, but the last year is voidable. The Bills just let Lee Evans play under rookie contract for almost all of it before resigning him.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Just looked up McGee’s extension…

10/28/2005: Signed a four-year, $18 million contract extension through 2009. The deal included a $5 million signing bonus. 2008: $2.75 million, 2009: $3 million, 2010: Free Agent

Do we sign Greer to something similar or considerably more given sal cap increases & market nature?

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 25, 2008 7:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

My guess is another year or two and a few more dollars, but more or less a similiar deal. It is always tough to guess what players are going to get though and I tend to guess high. I was the guy saying that Lance Briggs would get a something around 7 years and 60 mil.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 7:33 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I guess I place Greer as about the #30-40 best corner in the league. Those guys get about $20 over 4 years and I dont think the Bills pay that.

by Berg79 on Nov 25, 2008 8:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough. I agree that Greer probably prices himself out of a Bills uni, but I think he gets just a little more than that. Jacques Reeves and Randall Gay both got around 20 mil last offseason and I doubt anyone would put them in the top 30 or 40 corners in the league.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 9:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

When you step back and look at it...

Doesn’t this make anyone else hopping mad?

Fowler is making 1.775 mil this year

Man, could the Bills pay me half that much to put on a ton of pads, snap a football to the QB, and then get knocked on my butt? I’ll even learn a few line calls.

by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2008 10:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yep, I’d like to see Whitner move to FS and pick up a bigger, harder hitting SS (or even stick with Scott).

by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2008 10:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah but he would cost us about 10 mil next year if we did. The franchise tag is for true stars and not for average or above average starters.

by kaisertown on Nov 24, 2008 9:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Greer is not worth a Franchise tag. He is not a top 10 at his position. Probably not even top 20. He is a good NFL starter (64 Corner’s start) but nothing more. He deserves #2 money but I dont think it comes from Buffalo. Otherwise, his contract would be negotiated during the season.

by Berg79 on Nov 24, 2008 10:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Are we sure Greer is not worth paying as a top CB for one year?

I agree Greer is not a top CB in the league, but we are also not sure about Leo. Giving Greer 10 mil instead of 6 mil would be a waste of sorts, but it would give us one more year to find out what we have in both Greer and Leo. I would hate to let Greer go and end up short at CB. We need all three of these guys if we are going to take the next step. Besides, next year is the year, right? Our absolute necessities are C, DE, LB and this team should be able to make a run. That is not a tall order to fill. Let Greer go, and you need to draft another CB and hope Corner works out.

by Joe P. on Nov 25, 2008 10:43 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I guess I’d rather use that money on someone who will be here long term.

by Berg79 on Nov 25, 2008 8:45 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Could

last year’s draft be indicative of the Bills’ intentions? They drafted 3 CBs with Youboty and Greer entering contract years. I don’t see Youboty being signed here unless he comes REAL cheap. The kid was coming on this year but he’s HURT AGAIN.

For me, the ideal situation is

RCB: McGee
LCB: McKelvin
NB: Greer
DB: Corner/Youboty

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Nov 25, 2008 2:03 AM EST   0 recs

I mentioned this up top. Youboty is NOT in his contract year. He is under contract for next season too and at a very cheap 500K salary.

by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2008 10:59 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

O

I could have swore he signed a 3-year deal. Well then if he has a strong training camp and preseason he’ll be back…. which is ideal for Buffalo because they won’t have to draft any cornerbacks this year then.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Nov 25, 2008 12:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

good point....
He is under contract for next season too and at a very cheap 500K salary

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 26, 2008 10:17 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ha Ha!
which is ideal for Buffalo because they won’t have to draft any cornerbacks this year then.

But will they?…LOL

by MonStarr_716 on Nov 25, 2008 7:09 PM EST   0 recs

So Chris Gamble just signed a 6 year, 53 mil contract. Anyone who thinks Greer is getting less than 25 mil is crazy. My new (optimistic) guess is 5 years, 30 mil to lock up Greer. Who thinks he is or isn’t worth it? I can’t decide on this one.

And I just realized that i never wrote what I voted for:

I think Greer will be too pricey for the Bills to resign him. My guess is that he walks, but that wasn’t what the poll question asked. Ideally Greer comes back and McKelvin sits on the bench, splits nickel and dime type duties with Youboty, fills in for injured players, keeps looking like an elite returner and learns how to make plays while avoiding mistakes for another season.

by kaisertown on Nov 28, 2008 4:38 PM EST   0 recs

Pay him or franchise tag him until we are sure about Corner

He may not be worth elite corner money, but we need 3 good corners if we are going to make a run next year. If it comes down to money, make Peters wait another year.

by Joe P. on Nov 28, 2008 5:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I think I’m leaning towards your side of paying him. He certainly isn’t worth elite corner money, but paying him a little more than 30 almost seems like a bargain when guys like Samuel and Gamble are making twice as much.

The problem with the franchise tag is that he would make almost 11 mil. Since the Bills pay signing bonuses up front, Greer would make around 11 mil during the first year of a new contract anyways. So why franchise him and give him all that money and have to go through this same process next season when they could just lock him up and then have him at a pretty reasonable 4ish mil a year after that?

in other words, since the Bills pay 80-90% of the guaranteed money up front isn’t there a lot more risk involved in franchising him than signing him if what you have to pay him next year is about the same either way?

by kaisertown on Nov 28, 2008 8:30 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed, the franchise tag is not the best way to go,

but if for some reason the Bills won’t or can’t sign him, it might be worth the cap hit for to keep him for one season. If he proves to be worth the money, then you will have to sign him to an even bigger contract or let him walk/trade him if Corner can play nickel. You can franchise a player 2 years, right? If the Bills are not sure Greer is worth a big contract, then wouldn’t taking the cap hit for one year be better in the long run than signing him to big long term deal? The Bills would still have the big signing bonus cap hit, right?

by Joe P. on Nov 28, 2008 8:54 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

to piggy back on that
paying him a little more than 30 almost seems like a bargain when guys like Samuel and Gamble are making twice as much.

I totally agree with this. I think the gap in players value between Greer and Gamble is very small, while the difference in pay will not be indicative of their value. If Gamble went for that much, and we can get Greer for 30-35, I think it is that much more important to keep him.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 29, 2008 12:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

also

to add: by resigning Gamble the Panthers are once again keeping Richard Marshall, who could start on just about any team in need of a quality starter, on the bench at the nickel while starting Ken Lucas and Chris Gamble. We should really keep Greer whether or not we move McGee to safety or not. You can never have too many corners.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Nov 29, 2008 12:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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