State of the Bills, Part I: On Ralph C. Wilson, Jr.
by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 8:00 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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PrintThe Buffalo Bills suck. I didn't need to say it - if you're reading this, you're well aware of that fact - but it's the logical place to start. When a football team sucks for as long as the Bills have, something needs to change. And it's definitely been a while; only the Detroit Lions have missed the playoffs as many consecutive years (nine) as our beloved Bills. It's bad. Again, you know this.
What follows is Part I of a [TBA]-part series, not so creatively dubbed "State of the Bills". Following logic, we'll start at the top. On the hot seat in Part I - team owner Ralph C. Wilson, Jr.
First, a disclaimer - I'm a present-oriented guy. I'm not here to speculate about the team's future viability in the Buffalo market, because frankly, winning and losing is far more important to me. I've watched a losing franchise for the past decade; I'm 23 years old. You do the math. The last time I watched legitimately good Bills football was, for me, almost half a lifetime ago. I was nearing high school. I want to see winning football first and foremost.
So if you want to talk about your issues with Ralph and his handling of the sale of the team, this isn't the thread. This thread is about Ralph's role in putting a better product on the field. It's laced with opinion and speculation; largely, it's me getting this off of my chest. Use it as a place to start what I hope will be one of the better philosophical discussions we've had as a community.
On Ralph's commitment to winning: Ralph has owned this team since day one, and as that's pushing 50 years, he's had time to contradict himself several times over - and that's not a bad thing. He's tried a lot of different tactics to field a winner - and, as you realize, it hasn't worked more often than not. He's hired familiar faces (Terry Bledsoe - a recent discovery of mine from this very community - Bill Polian and GM-Marv Levy as examples) and outside guys (Tom Donahoe). He's surrendered control (Donahoe) and seized it back (before and after Donahoe). He's hired experienced coaches and hot young coordinators. He's deferred decisions and been instrumental in others. The man is clearly trying to field a winner; his moves have gotten more frequent and more desperate in recent years, for several very obvious reasons. But nobody will ever convince me that the man isn't interested in fielding a winner; the proof is in the pudding. Ralph's as desperate as we are, and unfortunately, it's led to some turmoil in recent years.
On "being cheap": Ah, yes. Everyone's favorite argument. I'll grant you that some of Ralph's coaching hires over the years have been less than exciting, Dick Jauron included. (Side note: I'm not placing a shred of blame on Ralph for this fact, because he's not doing the hiring - the GMs are. If anything, he gets credit for getting rid of rubbish like Gregg Williams, and demerit for Wade Phillips. You take the good with the bad when someone's been around as long as Ralph.) I'll even grant you that his GM hires have been iffy. He's had good ones and he's had bad ones; just once, an outside hire blew up in his face, and beyond that, he's done almost everything in-house. The man's loyal; let's give him that. But he's never truly paid top dollar for elite front office "talent", if that's the right word for it.
Just once more, I'd like Ralph to try the "Donahoe route" again. Outside influence can bring a lot of positives to an organization, and Ralph is undoubtedly gun-shy to try it again. I chalk that up to his age. Older owners tend to gravitate toward the familiar; we've seen Al Davis (re-hiring Art Shell as head coach) do the same thing. Ralph did it with Marv, and he was a tremendous stabilizing force after the Donahoe fiasco. Whenever Ralph deems it necessary to change it again, going outside the organization, in my view, is a must.
As for being cheap with players - again, in my view, you take the good with the bad. Or, rather, you take the bad with the bad. He's paid money, there's no doubt about it; he's just given it to questionable athletes like Derrick Dockery and Chris Kelsay rather than proven commodities like Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield. Again, the players themselves aren't his decision, so it's hard to fault him for each individual move. But the money he's paid - as well as the money he's saved - has clearly starved the franchise of key talent. I don't view Ralph as being cheap; I just think that personnel decisions have been largely terrible. Again, the majority of the blame there isn't on Ralph's shoulders.
On age and business savvy: Without making an attempt to put this lightly, but maintaining all respect for the venerable Mr. Wilson, Ralph is an old man. There isn't a better way to say it. I've mentioned this in passing several times on this blog, but it certainly bears repeating in this article - I'm very confident that Ralph's age hinders his ability to do the things we'd like him to do with his team.
Where's the draw of playing for a 90-year-old owner? The franchise has been in disarray for years. Ralph is nearing the end of his tenure as this team's owner, not to mention his days on this Earth. He's made knee-jerk decisions in his past, and as of late, has shuffled his front office and coaching tree too frequently. Historically speaking, this franchise has only had two stints of viability under his leadership. There are 31 other franchises in the league. Even if Ralph entertained the idea of bringing in guys that we, the fans, bring up on a daily basis, those guys likely wouldn't come to Buffalo. Bill Parcells? Bill Cowher? Dream on. It will be a cold day in hell before they work here, and it's not because they don't respect Ralph. It's because there's no draw, and because said elite talent has the option to wait to put themselves in a better situation.
On his media appearances: Ralph's latest outburst wasn't fair to the players he's paying nor the coaches he's employing. We don't publicly hear from Ralph very often, so naturally, when he speaks, we all listen. Every time he speaks, and I listen, I invariably end up wishing that he'd just stayed behind the scenes.
From his latest outburst to his public ripping of the CBA (even if he was right) to his infamous press conference with the late Ted Rogers announcing the Bills in Toronto Series, I cringe when the man's voice is heard. Not because of his age, but because of the words themselves. That only decreases from that pull I mentioned in the business savvy point - to be blunt, Ralph makes an ass of himself when he speaks. I appreciate his candor and his own bluntness when he does - Lord knows it's refreshing - but it's also ultimately destructive.
On his role with the franchise: Just like most other NFL owners, Ralph is a meddler. He's fidgety. I get the sense - maybe you don't, but I do - that he's far more involved day-to-day than we can possibly imagine, and not in a beneficial way. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where he calls men like Jauron, Russ Brandon and his vice presidents (John Guy and Tom Modrak) a half-dozen times a day. He's not just the owner of the team, he's also the President. He has a degree of power in the operations of the franchise; you can bet he's involved more than we realize. Given the tenuous front office structure (stay tuned for Part II of this series!), it can't help the situation. Meddling is generally never a productive behavior.
In conclusion: I have immense respect for Ralph Wilson. How can I not? Without him, the Buffalo Bills don't exist, I'm probably a Browns or Vikings fan, and I'm not here, therapeutically getting all of this off of my chest. His contributions to the NFL are, quite frankly, awesome, and he's been a large shaper of the NFL we know today. We're indebted to him for that, and NFL fans everywhere owe him a degree of allegiance as well.
I don't fault Wilson for much of what's happened during his tenure as owner, largely because of the reason I alluded to earlier in this little rant of mine. The man is trying. I don't view him as cheap, and I don't think that's an argument that can be used to explain the woes of this franchise. Has he been a bit conservative in his front office decision-making? Sure he has, and it's directly led to a lot of the franchise's problems. To his credit, he's always shown a willingness to make the change.
My problem with Ralph isn't what he's done, it's what he's now preventing us from doing. We can make change all we want, but it will all be side-stepping, because again, Ralph has no draw. As a result, his franchise has no draw. There's a reason we've missed the playoffs for nine straight seasons and suffered through decades of terrible football. It's not what Ralph has or hasn't done; to me, it's his mere presence. I highly doubt anything will change until Ralph is no longer associated with this franchise, which is no fault of his own - he's trying. It's the ultimate Catch-22 - and it's an incredibly unfortunate fact.
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a new draw
speculation has it that Tom Golisano is secretly selling the sabres to buy the BBs. Would Tom Galisano be a bigger draw along perhaps with Jim Kelly, bring what we need to the Bills to supply a perpetual winner in Buffalo?
I think both would, but I’m not getting into it beyond that. As I said, I’m concentrating on what Ralph is currently, not the franchise’s future.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Good piece Brian!
I am not so sure that he is a meddling owner. After all he’s the president & sorta the GM so calling his guys a few times a day is normal for the pres/gm. The problem is that he is not letting go.
Many older folks continue to be active in their sunset age in order to give themselves something to live for… They worked hard their whole life and it’s the only thing they know. They need to feel part of something. I doubt that Ralph realizes it but it sure looks like that’s what he’s doing. By promoting essentially a marketing guy to the top job of COO he left some room for himself.
It’s too bad that Ralph did not have many kids because had he had a few more, one of them would have bound to be interested in football and like any good father he would have brought them along in the system and eventually let them take over the presidency. Unfortunately that’s not what destiny had in store for him.
Older people tend to only know how to do things one way and trusting others is not always easy and I doubt he’d start now. Totally entrusting his entire life’s work into a strangers hands would practically be impossible for him. I would love for him to show me wrong on this and actually go out and hire a good football guy but I seriously doubt it.
Brian, one point you did not touch on and that would be very interesting to explore is the tax implications of selling the team now vs his daughter/wife inheriting the team vs the team being sold upon his death. I heard the rumors about Golisano/Kelly and I wonder if financially it makes sense to sell the team at this point. Besides I come back to the fact that Mr Wilson is currently living out his days doing what brings him pleasure so I doubt he wants to give that up.
I didn’t touch on your final point because I’m concentrating on ways to win with Ralph. This piece has nothing to do with selling the team, and I wrote it that way for a reason. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
He’s paid money, there’s no doubt about it; he’s just given it to questionable athletes like Derrick Dockery and Chris Kelsay rather than proven commodities like Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield.
Pat and Antoine are my two favorite ex-bills and I almost cried when they left (not really but you know what I mean)
On Ralphs commitment to winning – maybe he is committed to winning. But he fired our only GM that ever built this team properly and got us to 4 super bowls. if he is committed to winning, he has a very weird way of showing it.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
Antoine Winfield
Man I miss that guy. Nothing like watching your 5-9, 190 pound CB upend a 6-0, 230 pound running back.
by PozDispenser on Dec 11, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Old Ralphy
Good post Brian as this is a good way to start weaning us off the crap we’ve had to talk about on the field lately. I think you are searching in the right area here when you start with Ralph. It’s an unusual situation. He bought the team in 1970, has INDEPENDENTLY been the owner, has tried running the franchise in different ways, but unfortunately I think ultimately time has passed him by. I work for a start up company….the founder put together a lifetime of inventions and now wants his every document, every piece of paper that goes through the company, every decision to be run by him. Why? Cuz this is his baby. This is his life. A lifetime full of blood, sweat and tears. YOu can understand the commitment. That’s the way Ralph is. The Bills are “his baby.” He’s not selling the team as long as he is alive. And at this point in his life he ain’t giving anyone control either. He needs Russ to help him keep making money. But after that, he just wants guys like Modrak, Guy, Overdorf, Jauron who he can intervene with and control. I mean, we all have probably dreamt of running a franchise, or tried on Madden….It’s fun making personnel decisions. But it’s hard evaluating talent. Ralph is not a talent evaluator. He is a businessmen.
The current structure of the Bills is in tact I think until Ralph passes. From Jerry Sullivan’s article:
Dick Jauron is not very popular right now.
"Neither am I," Wilson said, chortling again. "We’ll go out together."
It sure sounds as if Dick Jauron is who he wants to go to battle with and go out with. If that’s the case and DJ and company don’t turn this thing around, Ralph could alienate the fan base….let’s just hope some owner, with big money will come in and save it at some point. Cuz, I’m sorry fellow Bills fans, things are likely to get worse before they get better
MARVelous
Cuz this is his baby. This is his life
i’m not mocking this at all. but I just don’t see it that way for one reason and i could be completely off base here so let me know. but Ralph lives in Chicago, not even in Buffalo – he only comes here for special occasions (MNF, training camp), other than that he is in Chicago a majority of the time. Do you think the Jerry Jones’ of the NFL live 3 states away in a different city with another professional franchise?
as Brian said –
get the sense – maybe you don’t, but I do – that he’s far more involved day-to-day than we can possibly imagine, and not in a beneficial way
i’m not sure that he does this or that he calls a lot during the day. i could be wrong…but i don’t think so. maybe once a day but thats probably about it. plus he talks slow so those conversations would take forever to get done ;)
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Dec 11, 2008 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Why would his distance from the team – and incidentally, I believe it’s Detroit, not Chicago, but I could be wrong – lower the number of times he theoretically calls a day? To me, the farther away from the heart you are, the weaker the pulse. If Ralph lived in Buffalo, he wouldn’t need to check in via phone, because he could just show up at One Bills Drive. He’s a time zone away, though – the pulse is weaker out there. Thus, he checks in more. Again, I’m just speculating there, but I can imagine that his presence – or lack thereof – combined with his authority is only a hindrance to the guys doing the real day-to-day operating.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Gotta love Wikipedia. Ralph lives in Grosse Pointe Shores, Michigan, apparently near former Detroit Red Wing great Steve Yzerman.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
ahhh i thought it was chicago
i know your speculating, i’m just not sure that he does. thats all
yes i love wikipedia…good stuff
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Dec 11, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
But after that, he just wants guys like Modrak, Guy, Overdorf, Jauron who he can intervene with and control.
I don’t think that’s exactly right. Ralph bought into the consensus model that Marv Levy instilled when he returned in 2006. Ralph undoubtedly is higher up in the chain of command than his front office foursome, but from everything I’ve heard and deduced, he tries to work with them, not over them. It’s an odd model. You be the judge on whether it’s working or not.
Much more on this particular subject later in the series… which probably means sometime next week. We’ve got a game coming up, after all…
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
We’ve got a game coming up, after all…
lol Brian – how true – i think we all forgot about the Jets this week. well maybe not forgot, but definately hasn’t been the topic of conversation has it?
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
well
what I am saying is by not having a GM who runs football operations, Ralph has his “team” of people, but in all reality the buck stops at Ralph. Sure, he may delegate it all out and let them have their space, but I’m guessing nothing gets by the old man. Which is my whole point of “his baby.” It doesn’t matter what city he is in, he has his ear on the franchise’s innerworkings at all times. The guy for 90 is still with it. He hasn’t surrounded himself with real bright talent evaluators that have a plan. I think the current regime though, as I’ve stated many times, has done an admirable job at drafting and FA. Last year was by far the best FA year we had. Although Stroud technically wasn’t a FA. The key moving forward is KEEPING your own talent that you groom. You can’t let Pat Williams, Antonine Winfield, Nate Clements, Fletcher, Spikes, etc just walk out the door all the time. And now they signed Lee Evans….Schobel….Kelsay….sure they have put their money in the wrong place but they felt it was the right thing.
Just let me say this: I know we are all depressed, frustrated, irate at this franchise for this season.
But, I’m going to say it right now. The more I look at this thing, the roster, the coaching, the QB. I honestly get more confident moving forward. I know the present situation sucks. But I like where we are going….I just hope Trent Edwards works even harder this off-season. Good things happen to good people who work hard and never quit. Men of high-resolve and high character. And that’s exactly what I think we have in DJ, Edwards, Evans, and Lynch and a bunch of other guys on this team. So while you may not feel my optimism. The worst thing I think that can happen with Ralp still owning the team, is to tear down this coaching staff. Ralph struggles to trust anyone. He trusts Dj I think and that will go a long way to turning this thing around.
MARVelous
by not having a GM who runs football operations, Ralph has his "team" of people, but in all reality the buck stops at Ralph
Again, I don’t think that’s true. Ralph has his pulse on the organization, clearly, but he’s not the decision-maker. Organizational decisions are made by people like Overdorf and Scott Berchtold, with Brandon having the final say; football decisions receive input from Guy and Modrak, their staffs, and the coaching staff, but Jauron makes all the final decisions. That’s firmly how I believe things are currently run at OBD.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
well
I guess we can agree to disagree. They run the football operations, but all draft picks, especially first round draft picks and big free agent signings go through Ralp. I’m not saying he has the FINAL SAY on every decision, but undoubtedly there are times when Ralph pipes up and proclaims who he wants. He is not the decision maker clearly, but when he is writing the checks and the football operations team is on the fence, undoubtedly Ralph’s opinion will sway the decision. That said, the idiot picks of the Donahoe era, cost this franchise mightily, which is indeed why Ralph wants to have some say now, rather than when he let Donahoe do it.
MARVelous
I won’t agree to disagree with you, because we’re not disagreeing. We’re talking about slightly different shades of gray.
Trust me when I say that Dick Jauron makes all final personnel decisions. He just does. Ralph is undoubtedly informed and offers his opinion, but Jauron runs the ship. Honestly, it’s all consensus, and the vast majority of the time, everyone’s in agreement. But Jauron is the trigger man. That’s the only thing we’re “disagreeing” on, is who the trigger man is. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
well
i’ve never heard it put that way. I’ve heard the heads of modrak, jauron, brandon and asst coaches and scouts all weigh in. maybe DJ is the trigger man. If so, there’s no way in hell he is getting fired cuz if Ralph allows him to be the trigger man, he obviously trusts him a ton. I just don’t believe DJ has that much power. I believe his voice is definitely listened to, but I believe its more of a committee approach with Ralph soaking it all in and giving the “ok” on all personnel decisions. I mean, you have to agree EVERYTHING has to be run by Ralph, thus in all reality Ralph has to “ok” all decisions
MARVelous
I’m sure Ralph does have OK on decisions, because as we both say, it’s consensus. And I’m only talking personnel here, although coaching staff fits in as well. Jauron’s had total say over team aspects for three years. If Ralph wants that to change this off-season, I’m betting Jauron resigns.
I mean, you have to agree EVERYTHING has to be run by Ralph
Nope, I don’t. I think he oversees everything, but this is Brandon’s and Jauron’s ship.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
well then
ralph and DJ are going down together like he said. OR going up together…
I think everything is ok’d be ralph, thus everything is finalized by Ralph’s blessing. Running and decision making are two distinctely different things. Dj and co run, ralph gives approval or disapproval. And if DJ is running things and has final say…that is very scary cuz no coach should be a GM as well. It never works
MARVelous
I agree. I don’t like it when coaches have as much say as Jauron does. Although I’d stop short of saying “it never works”, because Bill Belichick does OK for himself in New England, and Bill Parcells always did pretty well, too.
Yes, you’re right – Wilson’s comment that he and Jauron are “going down together” was very telling. Sort of re-affirmed all of my beliefs.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
belichick
has scott pioli of course….not sure who has final say, but pioli is one of the best talent evaluators in the biz.
I think you and I brian are on the same wavelength on a lot of things regarding our favorite franchise….next year i think we should have a meeting of the minds over some brew ha ha has…..maybe a buffalo rumblings celebration where everyone flies in across the country!
MARVelous
Rumblings celebrates its 2-year birthday on April 7, 2009. If y’all want to make plans near Buffalo or Rochester, I’m game.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
If you believe Jauron is the trigger man,
then why not hold him responsible for the mess? I know, not part of this thread. I will look for that answer in the future :-)
Only the trigger man for the team on the field, and who says I don’t hold him responsible? I do. As I’ve said numerous times, I just feel that change isn’t always the best course of action.
This is all stuff I’ve said before, and I’ll leave it at that. You’ll hear it again in the future, just as you mentioned. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
sorry
this whole thing should have been highlight from Jerry Sullivan’s article
Dick Jauron is not very popular right now.
"Neither am I," Wilson said, chortling again. "We’ll go out together."
MARVelous
Various corrections about "The Ralph"
Ralphy lives in Gross Pointe Farms, MI. One of the wealthiest suburbs of Detroit.
He was born and raised in Detroit. Was born a millionaire – Family owned Insurance agencies, Car dealerships and most recently distribution/warehousing facilities all over the MidWest. He bought the Bills in 1959/1960 for $25,000.
I’m sure he hangs out at the Yacht Club/Country Club with other Detroit “illuminati” like Ford, Jr (Lions Owner) and Rick Wagoner (GM) and Mulally (Ford) and gets great business advice….
Regarding Ralph
From what I understand/heard from various sources is that his daughter’s meddle, believing they are great talent evaluators.
This is a big component of what caused the rift with Ralph and Bill Polian. I believe they attended Ohio State and want to draft Big 10 players first and foremost and Bill said – “uh…no, I’m the GM”. And so NC and Indy are champs and excellent organizations.
I find his response to Sullivan laughable “We don’t have the talent…” -well, you hold the checkbook Ralph, so whose fault is it? really? Consider the selections over the years and who could have been with buffalo through the draft and instead, Ralph chose to move up/down, trade away and bet on players whose potential was dubious and you’ll see the pattern.
Unfortunately, I think Ralph has to “check out” before we can expect anything to change -and it might be for the worst -but I am a firm believer that the the Bills stay put.
Sorry Brian to go off topic there….
Not sure that I agree with the checkbook comment
In recent years, they’ve shown that they are willing to spend (see overspend) for talent (or perceived talent anyways..) Good examples of that are Bledsoe/Dockery/Walker/Mitchell/Stroud. Unfortunately like Brian has said on multiple occasions, Buffalo is a very hard sell and we must often overpay for FAs. Which is why it is so critical to be able to build through the draft. Which brings me to the second part of the comment that I disagree with
Ralph chose to move up/down, trade away and bet on players whose potential was dubious and you’ll see the pattern.
If there is one thing that they do often it’s sell the farm to get back up into the first round (in recent years Losman & McCargo are good examples). This is wrong, they should be trading down, get more picks and play the odds. Taking Whitner at 11 was wrong, nobody else would have taken him and a SS is not worth an 11th pick. So I guess what I am saying is that this team has shown the tendency to “overspend” by giving away draft picks to jump back up and “overpay” for guys that could have been available in later rounds.
In my opinion the problem is not being “cheap” but the complete opposite. The problem is clearly management and their ability to properly evaluate talent and their ability to “wheel & Deal” on draft day. One of the best draft day negociators is by far – Mr Jerry Jones. Mr Wilson should take a step back and realize how important the draft is to bettering his team because nobody really wants to play here, our biggest hope lie with the rookies that don’t really have much of a choice in the matter. Mr Wilson need to realize that he needs a real GM in order to accomplish that.
Not sure I agree with the Hard Sell comment
I don’t think it is a hard sell becuase of Western NY – it’s Mr. Wilson.
For example, Pittsburgh is roughly the same size market as Buffalo and no players (draft or FA) have issue with going there- as it is recognized as a winning organization – not just by the number of championships, but how the owners run the business. Pittsburgh is competitve year in and year out – Buffalo is not. You cannot get season tickets to save your life there or in Green Bay for that matter. As someone said in a previous blog- it is the philosphy of the team and the reputation in the league and of the organization. Ralph’s rep is mud – despite his longevity.
I agree -take a page from Jerry Jones’ book!
I don’t think it is a hard sell becuase of Western NY – it’s Mr. Wilson.
i think its a hard sell because of the lack of winning culture at OBD and probably not any other single factor – just what i think
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
I disagree. The Lions have the worst “lack of winning culture” in the league, yet they can bring in high-level coaches (see: Mariucci, Steve) because Ford isn’t on quite the same level – yet – as Wilson. You can bet they’ll work out a way to get a high-level GM to replace Millen, too.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
good point – your probably right. i’m sure it has something to do with it, but maybe Ralph is the bigger problem as far as this is concerned.
i’m sure the lack winning culture doesn’t help either
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
It doesn’t help at all. You’re right, but you’re also right in that I think the issue is bigger than said culture.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
8
whitner went 8 and considering the other options we got a good solid player. but i agree, when you are rebuilding trading down to get picks is the way to go
MARVelous
No, you don't trade down from 8 if you're rebuilding
Instead, you take a stud lineman—like Ngata—and build around him.
YUP
This team never committed to rebuilding and that’s why we have shown very little improvement, if at all, during this regime’s reign. They had one foot in the rebuilding room, and the other in the win now room.
If we had concentrated on building the lines, or even taking a QB there (Cutler), who knows where we’d be? Drafting an average safety in the top 10 instead of a potential stud DT, and then trading picks to move back into the first to get a questionable talent in McCargo because we ‘needed’ a DT was pure idiocy.
If this team had scrapped what they had and gone into full rebuild mode, and built the lines through the draft, I think we could be a better shape now, although the coaching would still be holding this team back….
~K
His defense of the CBA shows that his heart IS with this team.
I have no doubt that he does love his Bills. His personnel decisions in the last 10 yrs simply have not been so good. Old age brings complacency.
I agree with Brian in that the situation will change with new ownership. In the mean time, I think we now have decent talent evaluators and our drafts have definitely improved. This season aside, we are slowly moving up the ladder.
everything goes better with bacon
about the checkbook comment
<blockquote>Which brings me to the second part of the comment that I disagree with
I was unsure of the terminology – trade down/up- but you made my point with Whitner and Losman. By “Ralph holding the checkbook” I did not mean – spend big as much as wisely -see Schobel and Kelsay…. However, he does not open the checknbook for coaches or Front Office – see Jauron, and Co.
However, he does not open the checknbook for coaches or Front Office – see Jauron, and Co.
As I alluded to in the article, I highly doubt that this motive is behind Ralph’s decision-making. I believe he chooses his front offices based on comfort level and his belief in intra-organizational promotion, NOT “I’m not paying for this guy’s services”. The front office folks he chooses pick the coaches, and we don’t get “big names” because of the lack of draw I alluded to. None of it, in my opinion, has anything to do with how much or how little Ralph is willing to spend.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
What about his response to and commentary about the CBA?
He’s complained for years that he couldn’t be competitive in Buffalo because of the low ticket prices, etc. The guy’sa shrewd businessman and knows how to get blood from a stone. He is aided by the fact he owes nothing for the team or the stadium, etc. He has the $$ and I believe the comfort level feeling is an excuse to maintain the status quo and make as much money as he can from the team.
Perhaps a bit of cynicism on my part here -I think he would like to win, but isn’t concerned either way if he doesn’t as long as the value of the team keeps heading north.
I see it slightly differently – I think he’s concerned with both winning and keeping the value of the team high. Both fit his job description, and one very obviously impacts the other, and vice versa.
I don’t see the “comfort level feeling”, as you referred to it, as an excuse to “maintain the status quo”, because every three years the status quo is tossed for new people… at least recently. Of COURSE he’s going to try to make as much money as he can from the team. Why is that a bad thing? But he does make changes, he does pay players, he does try. Cynical or not, the proof is in the pudding. It obviously hasn’t worked, but we’re pretty quick to spend the man’s money theoretically. His job is to put a winning team on the field AND make money, and he’s quite clearly better at the latter than the former.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
but isn’t concerned either way if he doesn’t as long as the value of the team keeps heading north.
how old is he? yea – i’m sure lining his pocket book is his primary goal. maybe for the team so he can keep his legacy, but thats about it. the dudes set with money
also – don’t forget that he has to spend at least $80 million (i’m not sure the exact amount) on players per year because of the salary cap. so he has to spend money one way or another, but some of the people he chooses to spend it on is puzzling
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
No one said anything about him lining his pocketbook, we were talking about the value of the franchise. Big difference. The more money you make, the more your franchise is worth. It’s that simple.
No argument on the spending money on players thing. He does spend it, but the players themselves are bad choices. And as I said in the article, that’s not Ralph’s fault. I doubt the man is a football talent evaluator, so he has to be trusting of his front office folks, and that’s where the problems lie as far as putting a good team on the field.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
excuse to maintain the status quo and make as much money as he can from the team
that was from dloroch
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
sorry if we took that differently, but i took his statement as wanting to make money for himself
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
so he has to be trusting of his front office folks, and that’s where the problems lie as far as putting a good team on the field.
lol Brian – did you get that from my post :)
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2008/12/8/686674/front-office
oh and 2 things Brian – did we just take dloroch’s comment differently?
and how’s my signature?
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
Well, the idea predated your post, but I didn’t disagree with you then and I don’t now.
I have no idea what your signature means. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
lol – i thought you’d get it.
Ghostbusters – bill murray
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
Never saw the movie. I know, blasphemous. Caught a few episodes of the cartoon, though.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
WHAT!?!?!?!
That is blasphemy!
How have you never seen Ghostbusters???? (Shaking head in disgust)
~K
I believe he wants to make as much money and get as much money for the Bills as he can – so that he can leave it all to his family. He knows he will never see another winning season – so he figures he’ll take care of his own – family that is.
His last big, taken chance was Donohoe. Which actually made sense and a somewhat bold move at the time because he helped build Pittsburgh in the mid to late ninties. We got some big names out of it through FA. We found out the hard way that Donohoe was not the panacea Ralph was and Bills faithful was looking for.When it was actually the Pittsburgh owners, their organization,their tradition and philosphy that provided the framework for Donohoe and the team to be successful.
Ralph is always looking for the saviour that will suddenly make the team great. Sorry, but Marv wasn’t the only reason we had such success so long ago – But Ralph seems to think so, which is why he brought him back. Sorry, Love the Marv, but we are no better off since his brief stint. Ralph fails to see the forest from the trees. I think he accepts the mediocrity and just wants the team to go to the highest bidder and if it happens to be a guy from Western NY – great!, if not, oh well.
completely, unequivocally disagree
As I alluded to in the article, I highly doubt that this motive is behind Ralph’s decision-making. I believe he chooses his front offices based on comfort level and his belief in intra-organizational promotion, NOT "I’m not paying for this guy’s services". The front office folks he chooses pick the coaches, and we don’t get "big names" because of the lack of draw I alluded to. None of it, in my opinion, has anything to do with how much or how little Ralph is willing to spend.
I could not possibly diagree with you more Brian on both of your points. First, I strongly believe that his coaching choices are made with consideration on how much the coach would demand in salary. Years back, and I can’t remember when, but I think it was when Gregg Williams was coach and most head coaches salaries were below $1 million a year (and Williams’ was much lower than that!), Ralph comented how crazy it was was coaches were making mor than a million a year (i wish I could find the quote, but it was well before the interent started documenting EVERYTHING!). Ralph is like any other old person, doesn’t cope the raising prices, he still thinks a coke should cost a nickle or a coach to make less than a $1 million. With that mentality, he would NEVER pay the $5 million or more it would cost to get a “Bill Cowher” to come to Buffalo.
Your “lack of draw” argument is somewhat correct, but again, you underestimate the power money. Buffalo’s lack of draw stems from a combination of a lot of things, a culture of losing, a small market, etc… But a competitive offer to a “hot” commodity coach would go a long way to lurring them. Might the Bills have to overpay a little bit, quite possibly, but just becuase they are a small market that loses doesn’t mean they are automatically barred from geting any proven coaches or players-you made that point for me when you referenced the Lions being able to draw top talent in another post- a lot of shortcummings can be made up with money.
finally, you talk about what you "thinK’ ralph’s mentality is, but lets look at the only hard evidence we have to offer, the history. Dick Jauron (whom Ralph hired, not Brandon or any other front office guy as you suggested), Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips (promoted from within), Marv Levy (was NOT a hot commodity when hired), and the list of losers (with the exception of Marv) go on and on and on throughout the 80’s and into the 70s’s). The fact is, Ralph has NEVER paid top dollar for a coach. Now you can believe that Ralph is willing to spend the money, or you can look at the evidence right in front of you.
One last thing, just becuase Donahoe hired Williams and Mularkey, doesn’t mean Ralph didn’t have a say on how much he was willing to spend. He may not have directly said that Donahoe couldn’t hire coach “X”, but the cap he was willing to spend on a coach may have barred Donahoe from hiring Coach X who would have exceeded that limit.
Ask yourself this, if Buffalo could get Bill Cowher for $5 million a season, meaning that Cowher would come here, would Ralph pay it?
I don’t see how anyone can answer that question yes with the history of evidence presented before them.
John I.
Thanks!
for reinforcing my argument. Ralph will not spend anything on a coach or real football professionals in the front office. He dispatched Polian for disagreeing with his daughters on draft picks and for asking for a percentage of the team- And Ralph got rid of him – because “the help” shouldn’t feel so entitled. Result – losers ever since.
Plus -jri111 is correct Marv was a perenial loser -KC, etc. and Then Polian and Bulter come in and wham! 4 consecutive AFC Titles ( with Marv being outcoached 4x in the SuperBowls, but that is another discussion).
Dick Jauron (whom Ralph hired, not Brandon or any other front office guy as you suggested), Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips (promoted from within), Marv Levy (was NOT a hot commodity when hired), and the list of losers (with the exception of Marv) go on and on and on throughout the 80’s and into the 70s’s). The fact is, Ralph has NEVER paid top dollar for a coach. Now you can believe that Ralph is willing to spend the money, or you can look at the evidence right in front of you.
Dick Jauron – hired by Marv Levy
Mike Mularkey – hired by Tom Donahoe
Gregg Williams – hired by Tom Donahoe
Wade Phillips – hired by Marv Levy, through John Butler, as Levy’s “heir apparent”
I repeat – Ralph Wilson hires guys for his front office, then lets THEM pick the coach. It’s the decision of the GM, or whatever the hell it’s called these days. Does Ralph sign off on it? Sure he does. But name me one time the Bills’ GM went after a “big name” head coach, and Ralph shot it down. Then maybe I’ll agree with you. The argument you made about having a “cap” that the GM could spend on a coach doesn’t cut it for me, I’m sorry.
a lot of shortcummings can be made up with money
This sounds like prostitution. :) OK, my feet are now firmly off what I like to call the “Joe P bandwagon”.
But a competitive offer to a "hot" commodity coach would go a long way to lurring them.
You mention proof; I’ve never seen proof of that. Maybe he hasn’t gone after a “hot” commodity coach, maybe he has. It’s important to realize that what we consider a “hot commodity” and what Buffalo’s front office considers the same may not always mesh. Also, weren’t Greggers and Mularkey “hot commodity” assistants? They got head coaching jobs for a reason, friend.
I don’t see how anyone can answer that question yes with the history of evidence presented before them.
For all the reasons I just mentioned, I don’t see how anyone can answer it “no”, either. There’s no proof either way in my book.
Man, you guys get borderline vicious when you disagree with me. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
not vicious, just assertive :)
I guess I don’t understand undeying faith in this Organization, whether it be Ralph Wilson or Dick Jauron. This is an organization that has not been to the playoffs in ten years. To me, that kind of performance does not warrent blind loyalty. All in good discussion though, not trying to be vicious or attack you!
It’s important to realize that what we consider a "hot commodity" and what Buffalo’s front office considers the same may not always mesh.
Before I get into my counter-argument, i want to clarify a “definition” that seems to be getting distorted. That definition of a “hot commodity” coach. Your statement about what you and I consider a hot commodity compared to what the Bill’s organization consider one is based on the assumption that we have the ability to define what a “hot commodity” is. We don’t, and to a large extent, neither do the Bills. A person, whether a player or a coach is considered a “hot commodity” because there is a general understanding from the decision makers that that person is good at what they do. They become “hot” becuase the majority of decision makers want them. In the football world, a coaching candidate becomes “hot” when a majority of owners/decision makers want them part of their organization. This off-seaon, Bill Cowher is one of the hot commodities, maybe Jason Garrett as well. In this sense, Buffalo has a say in who becomes a hot commodity (1/32 share), but alone, they have no power to define the term.
Instead, what you are describing is who the Bills like as coaching candidates compared ot who we, as fans, like. Who the Bills like for head coach (Mike Mularkey, Gregg Williams, etc) is not the same as who is a hot commodity at the time. The problem has been, the Bills seem to “like” candidates that are not hot commodities, ever. And if we take hot commodity at its definition, it means that the Bills tend to like coaches in which a majority of teams do not (and no, Mike Mularkey and Gregg Williams were not hot commodities – they were good young coordinators, but teams weren’t tripping over them for head coaching positions. And, if I recall, neither have been head coaches since their dubious tenures in Buffalo).
But name me one time the Bills’ GM went after a "big name" head coach, and Ralph shot it down. Then maybe I’ll agree with you.
So the question becomes, throughout the history of the Bills, do they simply always like coaches thare a majority of other teams do not-which would simply suggest bad decision making-or do they settle for these “lesser” coaches for another reason? Unless you beleive that Marv Levy, Tom Danahoe, John Bulter, Bill Pollian, etc. all have a decision making that leads them to select these non-hot commodity, cheap coaches, you have to look for a constant: Ralph Wilson. Yes, the “decison makers” made the final choices for head coach, but even more telling, not one of them even interviewed a top notch coaching candidate.
Fact: In at least the last four searches for head coaches, Buffalo has not even interviewed (let alone hired), one candidate that would be considered a “hot commodity” by its general defintion.
Fact: In all these years, Ralph has never paid the “going” rate for a head coach.
These are facts. They may not be a dispositive for the issue we are discussing (whether Ralph is cheap when it comes to hiring head coaches), but they can be used to shape our arguments. The problem I have with your argument is that use are using a lack of absolute dispositive fact as the foundation for your argument, i.e. there is no direct evidence of a Bills decision maker wanting to hire a top-notch coach and Ralph rejecting it, therefore it must not be true."
When you don’t have an absolute dispositive facts, which there normally wont be if it warrants a discussion like this :), you have to look at the circumstantial evidence. The circumstantial evidencec shows that over the last few decades Buffalo has never hired a coach that is considered a “hot commodity.” Buffalo has never even intereviewed a coach in that category. Ralph has stated before that he thought coaches make too much money. All this, suggest to me that its more than just bad decision making by whomever is in charge at the time.
What would make all of those decision-makers over the years decide not even give an interview to any of the top coaching candidates? If they are as good as evreryone thinks they are, then at some point along the way they should have at least been considered by Buffalo. But the Bills have, time and time again, not even given considration to quality candidates. If Ralph wants to win, which you argue that he does, then rational thought does not provide an answer to the Bills hiring practices. There has to be someting else. Based on all the circumstnatail evidence I lised above, and so much more I haven’t (the numerous times Ralph has cried about money over the last decade, the lack of revenue, etc.), it all points to coming down to a monatory issue. Ralph simply does not want to spend the money it would cost to bring in a top notch coach.
John I.
Now that, folks, is how you present an argument. I just still disagree with it. :)
I want to address three things:
I guess I don’t understand undeying faith in this Organization, whether it be Ralph Wilson or Dick Jauron.
If you’re asking me why I’m loyally blind, I’ll respond with a hearty “I’m not!”. My premise of this whole article was that nothing was going to change as long as Ralph was associated with the team. I’ve backed Dick Jauron, but that doesn’t mean I think he’s an elite coach. He isn’t. I’ve repeatedly said that my backing Jauron has far more to do with being wary of yet another change than thinking the sun shines out of his ass.
Fact: In at least the last four searches for head coaches, Buffalo has not even interviewed (let alone hired), one candidate that would be considered a "hot commodity" by its general defintion.
You made your point well here. Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey were considered up-and-comers, but you’re right – by your definition, which was a good one, they weren’t “hot commodities”. So you get no argument from me here. However…
Fact: In all these years, Ralph has never paid the "going" rate for a head coach.
If you mean this to support your “hot commodities” argument, I can’t connect the dots, because to me, it isn’t logical. Do you know how much Dick Jauron makes? Did he not get a new deal – even if it’s never been confirmed, if it was reported, it was definitely discussed – ? Face: we have no idea how Jauron’s salary compares to other coaches in the league. It’s probably lower than the big names, obviously, but it’s undoubtedly higher than others, too.
For those of you who don’t know, Johnny I is a lawyer. Hence “dispositive” – nice word, friend. :)
Finally, you ask this question:
What would make all of those decision-makers over the years decide not even give an interview to any of the top coaching candidates?
I’ve said it over and over – because of Ralph, but not because he’s cheap, because he lacks pull. No one wants to coach here. Do you honestly believe that a guy like Bill Parcells, who flips around the league all the time, would EVER have considered coming here, competitive or over-competitive salary or not? Hell no. Who says the Bills didn’t try to get interviews with “hot commodities”? We’re not privy to such information. My belief is that Ralph deferred to his GMs, who had no more pull than he did after Butler, and OK’d the best guys that they could bring in (clearly, they WEREN’T the best guys, but the GMs clearly thought they were then they hired them). I don’t consider this belief “blind faith”, more “likely circumstance”. I’m just as pissed as you are that none of them have worked out, and yes, I’d love to see one of them hot commodities come in if Jauron doesn’t last through the new year.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
question
I’ve repeatedly said that my backing Jauron has far more to do with being wary of yet another change than thinking the sun shines out of his ass.
I’m totally drawing a blank here because I can’t remember if you’ve ever truly described it, but why are you so wary of change regarding the coaching staff? I’m sure you have said it somewhere, but I can’t recall it. Besides this semi-ridiculous continuity reason (at least to me), what good is it to keep something so poor in place? Are you just afraid of the front office blowing up once Jauron’s not around to hold it together, or something else?
I feel dumb asking the question that I’m sure you’ve answered….haha….
~K
Yeah, exactly. It has nothing to do with continuity. In fact, continuity might be dangerous to this young, talented roster of ours. It has everything to do with the front office structure, and it has everything to do with our inability to find a true difference-maker as a head coach. This thing is ready to blow, and as much as y’all don’t think that’s a bad thing, the way it would blow would mandate it as a “bad thing”.
I don’t like what I see out of Jauron’s team. People form their opinions on Jauron; I form them on the team. The team got complacent and tanked. I don’t think Jauron meant for that to happen, obviously, and I’m sure he tried to turn the ship around, but it didn’t happen. I think Jauron’s coaching style is only good when you have a veteran team; think Dungy in Indy. Young players need guys to kick them in the ass, a la Cowher or Parcells or Coughlin. I think a theoretical coaching change would work wonders for this team; I’m just not confident in our ability to land that difference-maker.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
friggin lawyer
making us all look stoopid
I agree with your points….the Bills go with the used Chevy while other teams look for the brand new Mercedes….
~K
Hmm. It seems to me that, under your definition of “hot commodities”, we can’t possibly know what coaches may be “hot commodities” outside of a reasonable doubt. We have no special insight into what league decision makers really think of most available candidates.
A person, whether a player or a coach is considered a "hot commodity" because there is a general understanding from the decision makers that that person is good at what they do.
Under that part of the definition, both Williams and Mularkey would apply. They were widely respected (as far as we can tell without special knowledge) throughout league front offices.
In the football world, a coaching candidate becomes "hot" when a majority of owners/decision makers want them part of their organization.
Again, we can’t be certain of the opinions of most front offices, but if you asked the majority of organizations in 2004 and 2001 whether or not they would like Mularkey and Williams respectively, I’d suspect we’d have a substantial amount saying yes. Not necessarily for head coach, but certainly in the organization.
I would put to you that if we eliminate Williams and Mularkey, that we must eliminate Jason Garrett as well. Like the other two, we have no real knowledge of how front offices see Garrett, only the results of his work as an offensive coordinator. Under that criteria, he is actually LESS qualified, as he did not field a unit which participated in a Super Bowl (unlike Williams).
If we eliminate hot coordinators, then we’re left only with the likes of Cowher and Parcells, and despite Parcells frequent movements, very few teams have made serious plays for a coach of that caliber.
by PozDispenser on Dec 11, 2008 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Whoops! Unquote all except the first sentence!
by PozDispenser on Dec 11, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Also a fantastic point. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you on 1 point
I agree that Ralph does not like to pay for coaches and history definitely proves it.
However the old guy definitely is no longer living in the Happy Days where Coke was a nickle and a bag of chips was a dime. Remember he gave two linemen 75$M last year!
I think you are wrong when it comes to paying someone top $$ to come here. The circumstances have somewhat changed in that he now has a lot of extra cash that he can afford it and I am pretty sure that he is smart enough to realize what the team would be worth if he had a big time coach/GM and that the team finally made it to the playoffs.
Get Worse????
Tell me how?? Whitner guaranteed playoffs. The Bills won their first 4 games and have lost 6 of 7. HOW CAN THINGS GET WORSE?
Let me tell you how they can get better. TRADES.
Schobel is past his prime and he has a ridiculous contract. Trade him and Kelsay to Dallas for Chris Canty and Dallas’s 3rd or 4th rounder. Then you turn around and deal Evans with Dallas’s hopefully 3rd and our 3rd for Boldin.
This frees up a TON of cap space to sign Boldin and it gets RID OF the Bills VERY MEDIOCRE talent at two very important positions on the football field. Not to mention both Canty and Boldin are MANCHILD of men.
What does this have to do with Ralph Wilson? :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Good luck w/those trades
Why would Dallas want Schobel? They run a 3-4 D, so Canty is a much better fit for them. And if AZ does trade Boldin, it won’t be to get a WR with a ridiculously bloated contract….
~K
2 thirds and Evans for Bouldin????
Hey, why we’re shooting ourselves in the foot, why don’t we unload Lynch and a second rounder for Turner?
I admit.......I've been naive when it comes to Ralph......
I’ve let him slide way too many times the last few years as a Bills fan….but IMO…this team will be the east coast version of the raiders until he is no longer in charge….and I know im mentioning the “future” here…..but thats how I see things in the present…..
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by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 1:13 PM EST reply actions
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
If you were Ralph Wilson and the Bills finish out 1-2 what would you do?
Just would like some suggestions
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
doesnt matter......
because if I was Ralph Wilson I woulda done alot of things different a while ago……
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
LOL.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ralph is a major problem with where this team is and why it can’t move out of the dumpster.
I do have to question his commitment to winning. I don’t doubt that he wants to win, and win badly, but I just don’t believe there is the do anything it takes mentality. Winning doesn’t seem to be the be-all, end-all for Ralph.
His biggest failures are in bringing in front office and coaching talent, whether they were his direct hires or not. Right now, one of our biggest issues is having no GM or a guy leading us with personnel abilities. Maybe he’s too stubborn to go with an outsider like Donohoe again, but just promoting from within when you don’t exactly have good track records there is just appalling.
This franchise is doomed under his leadership. Doomed to continue losing. And if that happens, the probability that the team moves on after he passes probably increases….
~K
I wouldn’t say “doomed” under his leadership, just “without much direction” or “without massive change”. That’s the way Ralph operates. He’s fielded winners before; the infrequency of those winning teams is the big problem.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
See my previous comment.
Absolutely doomed. No winning philosphy – no reputation as “smash-mouth football” or
“defensive” team.
Sorry to be so negative. But I have spent alot of time and $$ following the team. I’m still going to the game on Sunday, despite all my ranting. I still believe they can beat the Jets.
It seems to me that of the folks on this blog are young (myself included), and we thus tend to remember mostly the 10 years of futility. But even teams we consider to be consistent winners have gone through droughts. The Steelers only made the playoffs once in Chuck Noll’s last 7 seasons, and were a joke in the ‘60s. The Dolphins have been the model of dysfunction from Marino’s retirement until this year. The Cowboys missed the playoffs from 1986-1990, and had a rough early aughts. Not saying that ours isn’t more severe than the rest, but there is precedent.
by PozDispenser on Dec 11, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
My humorous take on this topic...
Ralph’s ownership reminds me of when someone’s past their prime as a driver. Sure, they can do it. Eventually something bad is going to happen as a result though.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 11, 2008 4:27 PM EST reply actions
the 'burg pick I can handle.......
but this one is too much for me……….(Assuming this is Challenger of course…..and if its not…then I apologize) But that challenger disaster and the columbia one still saddens me to this day even though I have no direct involvement to anything……
Im sorry I just find it distasteful
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
also I realize that the Burg is just as bad because lives were lost too.....
but I guess because its German that it doesnt bother me as much……call me what you will…..but thats just my opinion.
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I had the same reaction,
but I don’t have a logical reason why. People lost their lives in both cases. All I can say is I remember watching it live on TV. I was in a state of shock.
same here.......
also I think part of the problem is I was alive for both space shuttle disasters and wasnt around in ’37 when the Burg went down…..
I can appreciate what my fellow bills fans were trying to portray and I agree this team is a disaster……but…I dunno if I woulda used those pics……again….thats just me though.
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
like I said......I can appreciate what you were trying to say there.....
Im not even mad at all, its just a reminder of a sadder time in my life that is all…..
Trust me I’ve done things similar……..im not faultless when it comes to things like this….I appreciate the fact that you didnt lash back out or anything…..
Its nice to be able to express your opinion to someone without them getting all defensive..
Its all good my man!!!!
:-)
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Buffalo was cursed when Wilson got the Bills franchise
It’s too bad Wilson didn’t get the Miami franchise that he desired when the AFL was formed. I know Miami wasn’t an original AFL team. But Wilson lobbied for Miami to be included in the AFL. He wanted Miami. If there ever was a city that needed one of it’s own to head up it’s national flagship it was Buffalo. Someone who’s roots were long and deep into WNY. Someone who would look at the Bills the way the Rooney family has looked at the Steelers. Wilson has been and still is a businessman first. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. He has taken his $25,000 investment and turned it into 750 million dollars. Not too shabby. Unfortunately if your a Bills fan you have suffered along the way. That is if you care about winning football games. It is my opinion that it has not been a priority of his to have a championship team since the mid 60"s. Once the AFL and NFL merged his business venture into professional sports paid off and he needed to pay attention to other business ventures. Of course one of the buy products of his ownership is that Bills fans ( according to ESPN ) support one of the worst professional franchises to support.
my two cents
So i havent been able to post on here as finals have been going on, but they are now over and thankfully i only have one semester of law school left!
So anyways, on to my thoughts (in case anyone cares at this point)
Its hard to add anything new to what has already been well articulated by brian and the gang. I am in the brian camp thinking that jauron is not the entire cause of this whole debacle. Im also not sure that ralph is to blame. I think ralph has a good heart and truly wants the bills to succeed, i cant imagine he doesnt. i just think his way of owning is stuck in a time period that has left the NFL. since the new collective bargaining agreement, the nfl salary cap has grown exponentially, and is therefore making it harder for smaller and poorer markets to compete. I believed, as i think most did, that the money from the toronto deal would help ease this pain, and it kinda has if you think about it (evans extension). so i think that ralph has come up with some good ideas, but i think the days of personally handling the day to day business of the bills are at an end. but to counter-argue that point, ralph is also a lil bit gun shy now to hand over the reigns to incompetency (donahue). I think the best think ralph can do right now is to sell the team to the conglomerate that should be kelly and thomas in order to help preserve not only the location of the bills franchise, but also insure giving over the reigns to people that truly care about the franchise and know what is best for it. until that happens, we will forever be middle to bottom of the league. but really i do like ralph, and i cant thank him enough for giving me the bills, just think hed be better off as a spectator.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
off topic.....
but congrats and good luck with your last semester……
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 12, 2008 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
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