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Bills/Jets aftermath: Ready for the bright side?

First, I blame J.P. Losman's game-deciding fumble on Jason Peters. He didn't block anyone on the play, and barely touched #27 who ran down Losman for the sack/fumble. Losman had no clue the guy was even coming. Some might blame Turk Schonert but, really, it wasn't a terrible play call. If the pass were incomplete the clock would stop - which it was going to anyway at the 2-minute warning. It had the possibility of getting the first down and even flipping field position if the Jets sold out on stopping the run. Peters' failure to even slow down #27 ruined all of that.

With the season officially over after the loss to Miami, I'm actually quite pleased with how the Jets game went. I had something to cheer about until the end of the game and Buffalo didn't hurt their draft position standing. Yeah, I know. I'm supposed to want them to win but I'd rather they get the tools to win meaningful games, not win throw away contests at the end of another year of futility. I will admit to hoping that Trent Edwards returns and lays waste to the Pats in Week 17, but that's because I don't think that will hurt the Bills' ability to get an immediate contributor (I'm hoping for a center) in the first round.

Moving on, the Bills now have 8 losses. They are guaranteed to draft ahead of the Jets, Dolphins, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Giants, Vikings, Panthers, Bucs and Falcons. Buffalo is guaranteed to draft behind the Bengals, Browns, Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Seahawks and Rams. So, the Bills will draft no sooner than #8 and no later than #20, barring trades.

Star-divide

That leaves the 7-7 Texans, 5-9 Jags, 8-6 Broncos, 6-8 Chargers, 8-5 (at time of posting) Cowboys, 7-5-1 Eagles, 7-7 Redskins, 8-6 Bears, 5-9 Packers, 7-7 Saints, 8-6 Cardinals and 5-9 49ers competing for draft position with the Bills.

Houston has a soft schedule (Raiders, Chiefs) so they should finish 8-8 at the worst. The Jags have the Colts and Ravens so look to finish 5-11. The Broncos (Bills, Chargers) look to finish no worse than 9-7. The Chargers (Bucs, Broncos) may well lose out and go 6-10. The Cowboys, playing the Giants as I type, have Baltimore and Philly meaning they could finish 8-8. The Eagles (Redskins, Cowboys) figure to lose 1 more and finish 8-7-1. Washington (Eagles, 49ers) should win 1 more and end no worse than 8-8. The Bears (Packers, Houston) figure to win at least 1 and finish no worse than 9-7. The Packers (Bears, Lions) will win at least 1 more and finish 6-10. The Saints (Lions, Carolina) should split and finish 8-8. The Cardinals (Patriots, Seahawks) ought to win one more and finish no worse than 9-7. The 49ers (Rams, Washington) will likely finish 6-10.

I'm pegging the Bills at 7-9 for the season, hopefully taking out the Patriots. If the above plays out as I think it might, Buffalo would pick ahead of the Texans, Broncos, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins, Bears, Saints, and Cardinals. Add those 8 to the 12 who will definitely pick after Buffalo and the Bills will pick no later than #12. The Bills should pick after the Jags, Chargers, Packers and 49ers. Add them to the 7 teams that will definitely pick before Buffalo and the Bills will pick no sooner than #12. It looks like #12 to me.

Now, let's look at where the Bills might fall if they had finished 9-7 (yes, I know it's not possible, but it would have been had Peters done his job), 8-8, 7-9 and 6-10.

1-7 in some order: Bengals, Browns, Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Seahawks and Rams

8 Jags (5-11)

9-11 Packers, 49ers, Chargers (6-10)

12 Bills (7-9)

13-16 Saints, Redskins, Cowboys, Houston (8-8)

17 Eagles (8-7-1)

18-20 Bears plus 2 of Jets or Dolphins or Patriots (9-7)

21-32 in some order: Colts, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Broncos, Giants, Vikings, Panthers, Cardinals, Bucs and Falcons plus 1 of Jets, Dolphins, Patriots

As you can see, if Buffalo falls to 6-10 the pick could be as high as #9, though probably still be #12 based on strength of schedule. The difference between Buffalo finishing 6-10 and 7-9 may be the #11 pick vs the #12. Big deal. I feel confident that a victory over the hated Patriots won't hurt the draft. Should, on the other hand, the Bills finish 8-8 the pick could be as high as #12 or as low as #16. Again, strength of schedule would hurt Buffalo. Had Buffalo avoided a third losing season in a row under Jauron (unlikely but still possible), the pick would be between #17-#20, likely #18. Yes, our crap-tacular team, with a 9-7 record could have been picking right before the 12 teams that made the playoffs. That would have been adding insult to injury.

Kudos to Peters, Losman, Turk and anyone else you care to blame for the fumble and loss in New Jersey. You probably saved the Bills as many as 8 slots (though probably more like 6) in terms of draft positioning. Well done.

Now, the question is whether or not the #12 pick is 'too high' to take the center Buffalo so desperately needs.

Poll
Is #12 'too high' to take a center?
Yes, Kiper says centers can't be picked that high.
130 votes
No, Buffalo needs a real center even if it makes Kiper muss his hair.
123 votes

253 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 115 comments

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Duh!

I voted that #12 isn’t too high to take a center.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Oh...

…and if Jauron is still around you know he’ll stay put and take his guy (whomever that is—possibly someone in Ohio State’s defensive backfield) at #12 even if people will scream that he reached.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am with you

Only the pick up of Birk could possibly sway me from taking Mack with our #1 pick.

by Joe P. on Dec 14, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brad Meester of Jacksonville and Jason Brown of Baltimore are both potential free agents who would solidify the spot. Personally, I don’t think any of them will actually make it to FA. In a perfect world where all three guys make it to FA, I would actually prefer Brown to Birk.

by kaisertown on Dec 14, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

I think most of the good available FA’s will not hit the market. We’ll be lucky this offseason if we can upgrade 1 position via FA.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Dec 14, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait Wait Wait........peters is to blame for JP's fumble????

I made a comment about this in the postgame thread….

I could go for this theory if and ONLY IF……

 all QB’s who got hit from their blind side fumbled…

.I mean come on….JP can do no wrong according to you Ron and I fail to understand why……

For one….JP should NEVER EVER EVER have the ball in his hand when a play needs to be made.

Secondly….A QB always has to be aware of his blind side, how bout holding the ball like you want to hold on to it, instead of holding it like a fricken hot potato……

Im not buying this theory one bit….Losman’s fumble…..is Losman’s fault…simple as that.

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I only saw the replays, but I saw Peters completely whiff on the rusher. He got maybe a hand on him. True, the fumble is on JP, completely. It didn’t hurt that his rusher had an almost completely unimpeded path to JP.

by pozzed51 on Dec 14, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

JP was rolling right......

so he had time to throw it away if need be……he’s just careless with the ball…

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True. Also it seemed rather than protect the ball he still tried to throw the ball to someone instead of protecting it.

by pozzed51 on Dec 14, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that was the issue. he has it secured until it appeared he was trying to throw it to no one….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 14, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is he was throwing it away before he hit the sideline.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 10:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m with you, I don’t think Losman even knew the pressure was coming until it was too late. Some of the responsibility is Losman’s, but Peters is the fall guy for me too.

by kaisertown on Dec 14, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Jets player that hit Loseman

did not hit the ball first. He put both hands on JP’s shoulders, slid his left hand down to JP’s left arm, then went for the ball in JP’s right hand. JP should have felt the defenders hands on his back and protected the football. That said, the coaches should have never called that play at that time. All we had to do was run the ball and we win!!!

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Losman didn’t feel the pressure. Elam gets his hands on JPs shoulders and JP went to try and protect the ball, he gets two hands on it and as he is pulling it into his body, Elam punches it out of his hands. The whole thing happened in about one second or less.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d4ac83

Considering that I don’t think JP knew the pressure was coming until Elam literally laid a hand on him, I don’t see how JP can hold onto that ball.

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I watched the clip again and again......

yeah JP didnt know it was coming….but he’s still holding the football like a loaf of bread….again I say, I’ve seen harder hits on the blindside and QB’s not fumble…….so there is no excuse even though Peters got blown by…(however in his defense he went to the inside first…and by the time he realized what guy to get it was too late, if you watch the clip he goes inside first….then tries to get back outside.)

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The better clip is the replay after that clip

It is a close up of JP. The second JP felt both hands on his shoulders, he should have protected the ball. This happens to much to JP for it to be bad luck.

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly...../

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Its all on JP, the whole game

and that fumble was the exclamation point, or the kick in the nuts, that topped it all off.
JP Losman is the worst QB in Bills history, and that is because of everything on and off the field, the false hope, the traded 1st round draft picks and his losing record, and all around crapiness. I have never seen a QB over throw people like he does. Our line gave him almost 7 seconds to throw the ball, and he is late on the trigger, probably because everyone’s is open at the same time, and then by the time he is ready to throw, after looking at all of them, they are all covered.
The QB has to know who the best guy to be open is, and when he is, throw it. You can’t see who is more open, or who is going to make the best play before you pass, and then when you’re done no one is open anymore, and then you go for the open RB, and you throw it over his head. Not to mention, you cause such a lack of confidence with your RB that he is dropping passes. ALSO, how about that line on Losman’s brow? He probably can’t see a dam thing, because his helmet slides down on his face. What the hell is wrong with him?

No one can be as bad as he has been, and I hoped for years that he would be great or at least good. i could name a ton of guys who are good QBs that get the job done and the improvement they would make on our team. Even Bledsoe, when he came looked like a very smart move, and he delivered quick. But unfortunately, Mularkey came in and turned that into a big crapstorm, and Losman was his biggest turd.

Next year, i hope we will be Losman free. It will be as if God shined down upon us and said, “I cast out thy demons that unrest thee”, and if he is so gracious, as our Lord and master may so be, he may even have Jauron fired…and then, like St. Michael coming to kill the Satan, a great coach with strong principals, and a winning being will grant this team with the blessings of victory, toughness, and triumph.

The Bills will be strong, because they will train the hardest, and they will play in the cold, and they are fearless even in defeat, because they will punish those that come into their home stadium, and bring the fury of past years tied down with softness.

Our Head Coach will instill ideas we have forgotten existed, and we will be great. But not if Losman and this coaching staff is here.

It will not happen, and thats it.

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Dec 15, 2008 1:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My response to norcal, joe and killa combined into one post:

again I say, I’ve seen harder hits on the blindside and QB’s not fumble

But how many of those hits actually included the defender making direct contact with the ball? It wasn’t that JP was hit hard at all its just that he didn’t have enough time between the initial contact and when Elam actually punched the ball to secure it.

The second JP felt both hands on his shoulders, he should have protected the ball

Well thats the problem, JP had about one second or less between the initial contact and Elam’s hand hitting the ball. He did try to secure it. He got both hands on the football and was bringing it in closer to his body when Elam punched it out. I don’t think there was much else he could have done. If Elams tackles JP by just hitting him in the back, or when he wraps JP up, if he missed the football and grabbed his arms instead, I think JP holds onto the ball.

JP Losman is the worst QB in Bills history

Really? Another exageration like this. Billy Joe Hobert has to go down as the all-time worst player to ever throw a pass for the Bills. Was Rob Johnson really better than Losman, or are the bad memories of Losman just fresher in your mind than Johnson? Alex Van Pelt and Todd Collins weren’t any better than Losman is either. Gary Marangi, Dennis Shaw, Dan Darragh, the Bills have plenty of pathetic QBs in their history.

Not to mention, you cause such a lack of confidence with your RB that he is dropping passes.

And now we are blaming Losman for droped passes too? What isn’t JP’s fault? I’ve seen Marshawn drop more than his fair share of passes that were thrown by Trent too.

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look

Two frist round draft picks for this chump and you’re telling me he isn’t the worst QB? 7 seconds to throw and he does nothing…short passes over heads…what the hell are you talking about…Anyway…he is the worst QB we ever drafted, how’s that? And no matter what, his stink on this team causes failure and that is the truth. He is terrible

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Dec 15, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Are phrases like “what the hell are you talking about” COMPLETELY necessary to make a point?

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 15, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Two frist round draft picks for this chump and you’re telling me he isn’t the worst QB?

How are those two things related? If you want to call JP the biggest dissapointment at the quarterback position then fine. He might be the QB who came the furthest from living up to expectations (I still think that Rob Johnson is right there with him), but the worst QB the team has ever had? The Bills have had a handful of QBs who even attempted a few hundred passes who were considerably worse than JP is. It’s easy to be this down on JP now after how horrifically bad he has been this season, but Losman is still the guy who averaged more yards per attempt and had a higher completion percentage than Tom Brady in 2006. I’m not trying to say that JP is a good QB and I’m not even trying to say that he doesn’t suck, but crazy overreactions bother me and not only is Losman not the worst QB ever to play for the team, he isn’t even close.

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he isn’t even close.

You’re just wrong.
I challenge you to name a qb who consistently over four seasons, has consistently lost games when the ball is in his hands, and who can’t throw the ball five yards accurately on a consistent basis.
This game was reminiscent of the Bills v. Jets in 0 when JP could have led a 4th qtr comeback, but two overshoots to McGahee and it was over. He is terrible and i believe the worst we’ve had. If fans are saying that there is no need to have the ball in his hands, then what does that say? He touches the ball every play as the QB. He wasn’t even pressured and he couldn’t get the ball out.
I’m just saying, I have never seen a QB have the inability to progress or win games on his own as he does. He is a total let down and we will be good to have him gone. In my opinion, he is the worst Bill. Worst cause we drafted him, worst because of what we gave up, worst because of his lack depth, worst because he can’t win consistently, and worst because of days like Sunday…terrible

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Dec 15, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in 1971, Dennis Shaw completed 51% of his passes and threw 26 interceptions. 9% of his passes were intercepted and 51% were caught by his team. He also threw 20 INTs in 1970, 17 in 1972 and 4 picks in just 46 attempts in 1973.

Again, if you want to say that nobody has failed to live up to expectation like Losman, I’m fine with that. But he is FAR from being the worst QB in the history of the team.

by kaisertown on Dec 16, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

First: The playcall is god awful (reminds me of Dal game last year)

No need to have the ball in JP’s hand anymore (I dont know how many more times I need to say that)

Second: Ball protection in job objective number 1 for a QB: Case Closed.

This place is just a microcosm of JP in general – All the promise in the world……but a bag of rocks for brains.

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not defending Losman...

…but I’m not going to slam him either for taking a blindside hit on a rollout either. It’s not like Losman did his usual thing and kind of hung around in the pocket bobbing and weaving while waiting to be sacked. Losman, quite reasonably, expected Peters to at least make his rusher break stride.

Don’t let your hatred of Losman blind you to the reality that Peters didn’t do his job on the play. After all, there are plenty of legitimate reasons (INTs, sacks taken needlessly, overthrown balls, etc) not to be happy with Losman’s performance.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh Im much more pissed off about the play call then anything to do with Losman....

I knew the Bills shoulda won DESPITE him……like i’ve mentioned many times…he should have never be put in that position….

So the fact that Peters missed blocking this guy is totally irrelevant to me, I wouldnt have been nearly as mad if JP had just held onto the ball

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True. Had Losman not fumbled the Bills would have punted with about 2 minutes left after running on 3rd and long. I’m just not going to blame a QB for fumbling when he’s smacked from the blindside, particularly since it’s not like he was holding the ball—as is his tendency.

The play call doesn’t bother me. It was going to run down to the 2 minute warning anyway so who cares if it’s an INC? Rolling Losman out should have put him away from pressure. Whoops.

But alls well than ends, um, not so well. The draft awaits.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well agree to disagree on the play call......if only for the fact that Lynch had been owing people all game

and yes…..on to the draft indeed

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would have preferred to see a run as well...

…I just don’t think a pass was a terrible call in that situation.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I disagree with the play cal. The assumption is that the play will take up the full six seconds- not easy to do. There would be a high probability (too high for me) of an incompletion before the two minutes, and then the two minute warning. No doubt about it, Peters has a lot of blame. Let’s also give kudos to the Jets though, who adjusted very well on the fly despite playing run blitzing (in my opinion).

by PozDispenser on Dec 14, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The sack is on Peters...

but the fumble is on JP and JP alone. I still have no idea what he was doing with the ball as he fumbled.

by twoeightnine on Dec 14, 2008 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Losman wouldn’t have been sacked/fumbled if Peters had done his job because there would have been no one there to sack him and make him fumble. Losman might have thrown an INT, run out of bounds 9 yards behind the line of scrimmage, or done something else stupid to hurt the team…but he didn’t because he was laid out on the turf by the guy Peters didn’t bother to block.

As for what he was doing, my guess is he was getting ready to throw it away thus ending the play at the 2 minute warning.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope. Not buying it one bit.

Elam has both hands on Losman and he does some kind jump move with the ball out from his body. Elam’s grip won’t let him throw. If he’s trying to throw a chest pass then he’s an even bigger idiot than I though.

by twoeightnine on Dec 14, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

watched the replay a bunch of times

looks like jp was pulling it in and elam ripped it out.

by oompaloompa on Dec 14, 2008 11:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well either way.......it was piss poor ball handling

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

and don’t forget play calling too.

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've beaten that horse to death

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 1:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't let that stop you,

besides, there is always next Sunday :-)

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 1:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully my daughter will be here by then......

and then nothing else will really matter :)

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great perspective

I will be praying for a safe delivery.

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

losman just has to get rid of it. it’s his fault 100% cuz of the situation. You know you have to get rid of it. You can’t risk a fumble there. Either way, DJ looked like he was going to cry on the sidelines….i feel for the guy. The writing is on the wall

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 10:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Center is the largest black hole on the entire team.

DE would be a logical (and glamorous) pick, but no DE stands out from the crowd like Mack stands out. Tradition says go DE. Our team say go C in the first, DE in the second.

Alex Mack does not open holes, he opens lanes. Freeway lanes. He will undoubtedly raise the game of the linemen who play alongside him. Ask the Vikes how they have felt about Birk for the last 10 yrs.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Dec 14, 2008 9:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Preston today played a decent game today......he'll make for a servicable backup to center and guard..

I think C needs to be addressed with one of the first two picks……

It needs to be C/DE/OLB with the first three picks I think

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m reserving judgement on how Preston did today until I have time to go through the game. Jenkins certainly didn’t appear to be a huge factor…

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well yeah thats all Im basing it on right now....

Didnt really see Jenkins doing much damage….so to me…even a “push” is a win for preston in my book

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also true! Preston having a game that grades out at 75% (run) would be a major improvement. I’m curious as to how hurt Jenkins really was and how often he was in the game.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Could not have said it better myself!

I hope Wilson cleans house after the season because otherwise we might wind up with another DB

by keysh67 on Dec 15, 2008 7:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for ‘Yes’, but not because of Kiper. I get that center is an issue, but the alarming, laughable lack of a pass rush is this team’s biggest issue.

Side note: Buffalo’s line did a GREAT job on Kris Jenkins today.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 14, 2008 9:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I voted yes as well........but just like brian...pass rush is more important

because I think DE or OLB should be the first pick……….a decent center can be had later on…….like my boy (just for you brian) Stanford’s Alex Fletcher…….

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

if we have a top 10 pick then we must get one of the big time pass rushers (Brian Orapko, Michael Johnson, Tyson Jackson, et al.). Our defense will not improve until we get a pass rush. Watch a Giants, Cowboys, Steelers, or Ravens game; they cause so much trouble because they can rush the passer. Get a DE!

by RabidBuffalo on Dec 14, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aaron Maybin, if he comes out is an option

The kid is an absolute beast (yes, I’ve watched him at PSU all year, I’m biased) and McShay actually has him going in the top 5, for what that’s worth.

John Madden told me 90% of the game was half-mental...

by TheK-GunNeedsReloaded on Dec 15, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A different point of view

I sincerely think that a center like Mack does not come around often and given that it is our biggest weakness. Also Mack is quite special because of his intelligence but also because of his size – at 6’4" 316lbs he would be among the largest specimens playing the game, guys like Andre Gurode or Jason Brown.

My different point of view is that we do have Aaron Schobel still tied up for a while and if I am not mistaken it would cost us to cut him next year. Given that he was hurt almost all year we can hardly blame our lack of a pass rush on him. If he can come back to his previous production of 12+ sacks per year, I would suspect that it would free up Stroud a tad bit which would also have an effect on Kelsay. I am just saying that we don’t really know what we have cause Stroud & Schobel have not played together so I would prefer waiting 1 more year before before replacing them.

If center was not so much of an issue it might be different but it isn’t. The truth is that we need a dominant Center to become a dominant running team, especially in a division that features 3 teams that run a 3-4 with big dominant NTs. Another thing is that a Center has a better chance of coming in an producing the first year, like most linemen. Whereas with a DE is way more shoot & miss (I will be publishing a post on this subject later today with some stats to prove my point).

We cannot afford to let Alex Mack slip away from us.

by keysh67 on Dec 15, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here is the analysis that I promissed

Hope it convinces a few of you disbelievers!

Center vs DE

by keysh67 on Dec 16, 2008 3:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

.TE

we need a TE….I will be in the TE boat all off-season. Whether or not the value will be there in round 1 or 2 is TBA. But Trent Edwards needs a TE. That is the most pressing need. We don’t have guys that get open. Sure Evans is deep man, Reed is 3rd down guy, but other than that we have crap. We need a big playmaking TE to roam the middle and free up the other guys. I’ll start my clamoring now

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 9:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

TE is certainly a need

So are DE, FB and LB. I thought about putting up a poll as to which position Buffalo should draft in the first round but that’s fodder for the loooooooooooooong offseason.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

im beginning to hate the idea of having a FB period........

just keep lynch and jackson or Omon there…..instead.

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2008 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tony Richardson looked pretty good for the Jets today. It’s pretty sad that Barnes and now McIntyre are so useless that you wouldn’t even want somebody who plays the same position.

by kaisertown on Dec 14, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

McIntyre did have a catch...

….for zero yards. I think that’s the 2nd one he’s managed not to drop this year. Of course, the yardage he picked up (0) is the same as when he drops it (0).

by Ron From NM on Dec 15, 2008 8:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true

I’ll be honest I don’t know how good this Alex Mack is, or how good Centers 2—5 in the draf might be. I know we need a Center, but I’d be shocked if they take a Center in the 1st round. A DE or OLB seem much more likely as I don’t think a TE would be of value in the top 15 either

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

TE's to be had from small schools later in the draft

Per National Football Post:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/12/nfl-draft-top-20-small-college-prospects/

2 Guys I like:
TE Brian Mandeville (6-6/248), Northeastern
The Buzz: A physically imposing tight end with good length and power at the point of attack. Mandeville, who began his college career at defensive end, has excellent athleticism but it is his power and blocking ability that has NFL teams intrigued. He reminds some scouts of New York Giants tight end Kevin Boss, but Mandeville has the technique and power to become a much better blocker.

TE Jared Bronson (6-4/255), Central Washington
The Buzz: Bronson is a transfer from Washington. He’s an intriguing size/speed prospect who has the explosion to get downfield and threaten the seam at the next level. Bronson is a bit limited as a blocker at this stage, but he has the athleticism to be flexed out in the slot and create mismatches in the passing game. Bronson has the size and power to block; he just needs some time to develop his technique.

Bronson could pair up with Fine who is showing some real guts in the blocking scheme to give us a good 1-2 combo of pass/block TEs. Mandeville won’t last much past the early thrid is my guess, he has way to much skill to not get picked early.

Anyhow, Center needs to be the #1 pick by us if Mack is on the board when we pick, if he is gone, then we can consider a stud DE.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Dec 14, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take some outstanding linemen any day

Like pitchers are to baseball teams – you can never have enough.

Basically (there are always exceptions):
If you can’t open holes or protect your QB, you have no offense.
Conversely, if you have no pass rush and get pushed back on crucial running plays, you don’t have much of a defense.

By the way, off topic: has anyone ever held Marv Levy accountable for selecting his Chicago buddy Dick Jauron as head coach? I never hear him criticized for that.

by ccthemovieman on Dec 14, 2008 10:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Marv is gone, that’s why he’s no longer criticized for it!!! I know myself, and plenty of other Bills fans, were not fond of the hire at the time. Nothing to do about it now except replace him…..

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 14, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Heck, I still partially blame Levy for all the SB losses. He let his players have too much control of the team, which led to the “bickering” and in-game confusion and despair against good teams.

by thefourwinds on Dec 15, 2008 12:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

who did you want?

Jauron has many issues, but mainly it is his inept QB play……Marv Levy had nothing to do with that

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 10:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jauron

was hired by Levy despite being a proven loser with one winning year in his NFL resume. The Chargers did the same thing – worse, actually – with Norv Turner. Both teams are paying for their mistakes in judgment. Levy is not above criticism; nobody is.

by ccthemovieman on Dec 14, 2008 10:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

again

i say…who did you want? Everyone is so easy to second guess when their ideas and opinions come from 20/20 hindsight

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 10:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

reply

To answer your question, I don’t honestly remember who I wanted, just that I wasn’t impressed with Jauron’s record, even though it wasn’t a long resume. I do remember liking Gary Kubiak (who I still like even though the Texans aren’t winners yet) and, I think, Sean Payton (sp?).

 Hey, if Tom Donohoe – one of the worst judges of talent in Bills history – can be lambasted (in hindsight) for picking Williams and Mularkey, then Levy can be knocked for his selection of head coach, too. Nobody’s perfect . I certainly liked some of Marv’s draft picks in his two years as GM.

by ccthemovieman on Dec 14, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair it wasn’t like Levy picked Jauron over Sean Payton I actually remember hearing during a Saints game when Peyton was going around the NFL interviewing for different jobs he supposedly had been contacted by Levy, and following his interview in New Orleans he was going to head to Buffalo for an interview but he ended up never leaving New Orleans.

Wow, talk about a massive what if huh?

"Where else would you rather be than right here, right now?"

by ArenZimm on Dec 15, 2008 12:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

eh

Peyton is nothing special. His Saints teams continue to underachieve….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 15, 2008 1:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we need a mike tomlin type of coach......

that man knows what he’s doing……….(Having Dick Lebeau helps too)

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 1:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m a Kubiak fan also.

by thefourwinds on Dec 15, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

eh right now he's no different than jauron....

7-8-9 win seasons….thats it

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Understand. I’m not saying I wish he were the BIlls’ coach, but I’ve seen good moves by him that I haven’t seen in Jauron (like getting rid of David Carr because he could tell Carr would never have "it").

by thefourwinds on Dec 15, 2008 12:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well I wont argue that.

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We need a game changer at either TE, LB, or DE. We sorely lack a dominating presence at any of those positions. We know the story at TE and DL, but while our LBs are solid, noone is spectacular and is of the level of a Ray Lewis, John Beason, Derrick Brooks, any of the Steelers LBs, Joey Porter, etc.

 We need a dominating player on the defensive side of the ball (not in the secondary) and we lack that. Shoebel being healthy and returning next year helps, but I’m tired of seeing blitzes that take 2 hours to generate. We need some speed and physicicality on defense as an upgrade, unless a top-flight TE is available.

by sabre74kkn on Dec 14, 2008 10:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Schobel isn't exactly a dominating player

I see the need at DE. I just think C is an even greater need. Buffalo needs to get ‘their guy’, whether it’s at #12, later in the draft or free agency.

by Ron From NM on Dec 14, 2008 10:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

these

guys are laying it on the line every week. There are flaws in the organizational philosophy and structure undoubtedly. Face it. Their is a culture of losing with this franchise and the only way to get rid of it, is with discipline, structure and a strong voice. JP said it in his post-game interview. It just seems like this franchise no matter how hard they try, they don’t have guys that can step up in times of pressure, adversity and persevere and make a play. We never win a big game ever and we never beat a team witha winning record

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 10:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Defending Turk huh? wow. I guess i’m going to have to respectfully disagree.

by buffaloboy90 on Dec 14, 2008 10:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

who is

i wouldn’t defend that guy with a toothpick

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 14, 2008 10:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

12 isn’t too high to take a center, but they had better be damned good if we’re using a first round draft pick on them. Personally, I think we can get a very good center in the second round. Very good is an improvement over Fowler/Preston, even in their rookie season.

by NJBillsfan on Dec 14, 2008 11:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think Mack will still be on the board in the second round, by the way.

by NJBillsfan on Dec 14, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He might. Some project that. It is certainly a risk, but not many thought McKelvin would not drop to us.

I agree with Ron. OBD should get the man they target. If I had an Alex Mack fathead,l I’d draw a bullseye on it.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Dec 14, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If we take a center at 12 I’ll be upset not because I’m unhappy with the pick, but because I’d like to see us try to trade back in the first. It’s possible that no center will go in the first. I’d be fine with us losing out by the draft pick value chart if we still got our man and scored an extra pick. Now, if that isn’t possible and we don’t think our guy will last to round 2, then go for it.

by Hopefulcynic on Dec 14, 2008 11:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That would be awesome.

If we got so much as a third rounder and still picked up Mack I would be happy with our draft

by Hopefulcynic on Dec 14, 2008 11:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade back?

Like the Bills did last season when they could have traded back to #17, gotten a 2nd or 3rd rounder plus whatever receiver they wanted?

by Ron From NM on Dec 15, 2008 8:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The lack of not trading down in 2006 was what will always kill me. The Broncos wanted to move up for Cutler and we had no business taking an average safety at #8. Just dumb.

I don’t mind getting McKelvin this past year. The team needed a CB pretty badly, so I can’t fault that. That’s a premium position. I wanted DE but at that point, there was nothing available.

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 15, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s another thing that can be blamed on Levy.

by thefourwinds on Dec 16, 2008 3:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that is, not trading down in 06

by thefourwinds on Dec 16, 2008 3:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's another random piece of information. I say that because I am simply not that knowledgeable on the subject

I read some time ago on another board that one of the rarer talents that Jason Peters had(s) is the ability to drop his outside leg without losing strength and slide his block outside. Thus preventing the quick outside rush. Everyone does it, Jason does it very well. Until his injury. His injury took away a bit of his speed in this move. Now it is still an issue of getting his full strength in the groin back. The holdout did not help at all as far as rehabbing it. He is close to full strength but still gets beat on the rush sometimes. He should, barring another holdout, be back to the old Jason next year. Interesting theory.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Dec 14, 2008 11:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jauron over ruled the call?

well supposedly jauron over ruled schonert on that play and called for the play action. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap;_ylt=Ami5z3qEHEBkzja0edaLKLRDubYF?gid=20081214020&prov=ap i know its yahoo.com but jauron said he made the call. sry if someone else posted this already. so yea cant wait for the draft

by billsstein on Dec 14, 2008 11:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

LOL....if this is true that pretty much sums up Jaurons' whole HC tenure......

Standing back letting his guys do the work without micromanaging………….and then AT THE WORST possible time overruling them and costing the team the game………JEEBUS…..

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2008 12:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure that’s true. I think any head coach has to say that. It’s up to the coach and the quarterback to fall on the sword when things go wrong. If Jauron says that Schonert made the call, he ends up looking like Mike Singletary calling out Mike Martz. The media would misconstrue whatever DJ said and make it seem like he is blaming things on Schonert. Jauron had to say that it was his decision. Maybe it was, but maybe it wasn’t.

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are the DE prospects

If it came down to drafting a DE or a C who were both at the same skill level then I’d pick DE, but all I’ve heard is how amazing Mack might be and I would love me a piece of that in Buffalo and I haven’t really heard anything about the DE’s coming up this year. You can argue taking a C at 12 is to high but is there any DE this draft worth taking at 12 either?

"Where else would you rather be than right here, right now?"

by ArenZimm on Dec 15, 2008 12:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Here's how I see it

If there are any DEs that exceptional, they won’t fall to 12. Mack will. In other words, “there” refers to where we pick, not the draft in general.

by Hopefulcynic on Dec 15, 2008 1:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aaron Maybin from Penn State, Everette Brown from Florida State, and Brian Orakpo from Texas are three possibilities in the mid-first round area, assuming they all declare. Out of this bunch, I would want Brown, because he is projected as an elite pass rusher.

by NJBillsfan on Dec 15, 2008 2:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t forget George Selvie from South Florida, either. There is a health question with him, though.

by NJBillsfan on Dec 15, 2008 2:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am worried that he may be a bit undersized to be anything other than a pass rusher though. I like my DEs to be an effective run stopper instead of the over-pursuers we currently employ. However, the whole size thing hasn’t really stopped Elvis Dumervil (sp?) from being effective in Denver…

by pozzed51 on Dec 15, 2008 2:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What you guys worry to much is how they are projected as… If you really on projections they will only hurt
Nothing against brown either

by Parrish11rules on Dec 15, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The top DE prospects are Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown, Greg Hardy, Michael Johnson and George Selvie. I’d pick any of them before Mack, and I like Mack.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 15, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not even close for me

best Center prospect in 10 yrs vs best (not even guaranteed to get the top DE) DE this year? Add in the fact that Preston is worse at C than Schobel is at DE. Easy choice.

by Joe P. on Dec 15, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Same here, unless Birk somehow makes it into FA

We gotta go Mack, I can live with a slightly better DE coming in from Rd. 2 or 3. We need a real C to handle all the teams running 3-4 in the AFC right now and need someone who can handle some big NTs. Mack can do that.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Dec 15, 2008 7:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ron help me out here

Wasn’t it 5 straight runs prior to the play action fake?

Wasn’t the clock going to stop at the 2:00 warning anyways?

didn’t DJ make the call instead of Schonert?

I think everyone is just testy about the season and I don’t know why everyone thought that was a bad play call. you can’t completely go into a shell. they had 8 guys in the box! obvious run situation. play action – first down GAME OVER.

i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again – Losman is terrible and he is the reason they lost

Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider

by J2 on Dec 15, 2008 8:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I would have prefered a run. I am very conservative and always play it safe. What I am curious about is what if the Bills ran the ball on second and third down. Punt the ball away to NY who gets it with pretty good field position and about 1:50 left on the clock with no time outs. If Favre marches down the field and into the end zone, how many Bills fans are ripping Jauron for being to conservative or for playing to not lose?

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No way do they stop them there.

Lynch was running train on the Jets at that point. 2nd and 5 and he’s gained 3-7 yards on every play that drive.

by twoeightnine on Dec 15, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It was just a hypothetical. It was far from a sure thing that Buffalo picks up a first down there, when an entire team sells out to stop the run in desperation time like that anything can happen. Marshawn was averaging about 5.7 yards per carry in that Cleveland game until the final 3 plays when the Bills only picked up 4 yards.

by kaisertown on Dec 15, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But that’s exactly the point. The Jets WEREN’T stopping Lynch on that drive like the Browns stuffed him three times straight. And on 1st down, he had just gained another five yards. Your hypothetical doesn’t match up .

by thefourwinds on Dec 16, 2008 3:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

excellent point Kaisertown

also – did you know that the Jets were rushing for 6.9 yds per rush that game.

Our “D” may have been holding them in the second half. but when you have a good quarterback that can run the 2 minute you never know whats going to happen.

you know that if they would have punted and then the Jets drove down the field everyone would be saying they are too conservative. as you i would have prefered a run – but it wasn’t a horrible play call

Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider

by J2 on Dec 15, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am conservative in this situation for one reason

WE HAD JP FREAKING LOSMAN TRYING TO GET THE 1ST DOWN FOR US! The kid was overthrowing his targets almost all game! WHY IS HE THE ONE TO TRY AND WIN IT FOR US! Sorry for the shouting, but that is what is lost on this one folks. Why in the world did DJ and Turk think this was preferable to running Lynch or Freddy into the Jets whom they had been owning on the ground to that point?

Even if we had somehow got the play off, I would still be wondering at the sanity of this coaching staff for taking that risk with JP trying to get that 1st down rather than one of our 2 running studs.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Dec 15, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

7th overall is highest possible, not 8th.

The Browns can pass Buffalo – they’re currently 4-9 with three games to play. Even if they lose tonight, they could catch Buffalo at 6-10 and lose the tiebreaker to give Buffalo the 7th pick.

by Krenn on Dec 15, 2008 6:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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