A look at our LB Core and options in FA
by keysh67 on Dec 20, 2008 12:20 PM EST
Email
PrintWe have all been talinking about the off-season and our wish list for the up-coming draft and we have debated to death the option of Center over DE (see Let the Debate Begin.. ) During that discussion we also talked about other real pressing needs like OLB, TE, DT
So I decided this morning to look at the UFA market as it pertains specifically to the LB position to see if we could start discussing potential off season targets in UFA that would be a good fit for our young team.
I went through the list of UFA and I peaked at the RFA but as a general rule unless it's a superstar, it ain't worth giving up draft picks and there were none this year that fit that description. So out of the list of UFA, which includes Keith Ellison & Jon DiGiogio, I have two guys that in my opinion could work very well in our system.
Bart Scott (OLB, BAL) 6'2" 240lbs
71 tackles, 5PDef, 1.5 sacks, 1FF, 0INT
He has had a drop off in production in 2007, 2008 but in 2006 he had 103 Tackles, 9Pdef, 9.5 sacks, 0 FF, 2 INT
Espn's comment: He has good size and strength with adequate speed. He is a highly-aggressive player who brings good effort and energy to the defense. He has good reactions with good quickness and body control. He changes direction quickly showing the ability to slip or avoid oncoming blocks. He has a good, short burst to the outside to take away angles on the perimeter. He does a good job making plays laterally. He is strong enough to take on interior blocks with the ability to bend. Scott does a good job of getting low for lead blocks with enough strength to stuff fullbacks in the hole. He has some trouble with big body contact when offensive linemen get the lock on him with wide hands. He shows good strength taking on a trap in the backfield with good closing quickness to keep his feet and make plays. In passing situations, he is more effective attacking the quarterback than when dropping into coverage. He has good timing as a blitzer with good quick movement to avoid contact through the line of scrimmage. When he has to drop into coverage, he is a little tight through the hips and is missing the ideal burst and long speed. He will take some chances to make big plays in zone coverage, which can jeopardize scheme design.
Jonathan Vilma (MLB, NO) 6'1" 230lbs
111 tackles, 6PDef, 1 sack, 2FF, 1INT
In 2005 in Herm Edwards final year as their HC, he played MLB in a 4-3 and had
169Tackles, 6PDef, .5 sacks, 4FF, 1INT
ESPN'S Comment: Vilma was greatly miscast in the Jets' 3-4 defense and could resurrect his career in New Orleans in a system that far better suits his abilities. Before the arrival of Eric Mangini and his 3-4 defense, Vilma was a disruptive playmaker with great range, instincts and natural leadership skills. Expect to see that player once again in New Orleans. The biggest concern with Vilma right now is a knee injury that caused him to miss the 2007 season. Before the injury, he was an explosive middle linebacker who changed directions quickly and made plays all over the field. He needs to be protected since he isn't a 'backer with great bulk or power, but he also never shies away from contact and is a fearless competitor. He can be engulfed though, which was his biggest problem with Mangini's scheme. However, he rarely looks awkward on the field, stays in balance and knows the quickest route to the ball carrier. Vilma closes abruptly and is often violent upon contact with ball jarring results. He should quickly reclaim his position amongst the better middle linebackers in the game today and will inject the Saints' defense with much needed heart, competitiveness and overall playmaking abilities.
Comparision (Bills players)
Paul Posluszny, 6'1" 238Lbs
96 tackles, 6PDef, 0Sacks, 1FF, 1INT
Keith Ellison, 6'0" 229Lbs
64Tackles, 2PDef, 0Sacks, 0FF, 0INT
Analysis
Let me start by giving you my opinion on our players. I really like Poz, he is extremely solid against the run and I like the way he can shed blocks and get to the runner. I find he is lacking in the coverage skills. He seems slow the react when he's dropping back. Keith Ellison on the other hand looks useless on the surface, his stats are really not that exciting. When you look at other SLB on great defensive 4-3 teams you then get a better appreciation for Ellison because his stats are actually slightly above average. This brings me to really appreciate the body of work that Angelo Crowell did last year 126Tackles, 4PDef, 2Sacks, 1FF, 1INT - I know that Brian claims that he is often out of position but that is very hard to prove. Statistically he is far superior to any other SLB in the league. At WLB Mitchell's numbers are not that bad when compared to other WLBs but the funny thing is that he looks too big & slow in coverage. Funny thing is that normally your biggest LB is your SLB and your smallest best coverage guy should be your WLB. We have a 6'1" 253lbs slow WLB and a 6'0" 229lbs faster SLB ??
Let me start by saying that I really like both Vilma & Scott as UFA's and think that we should pursue one of them this off season.
The two configurations that I could easily see for 2009 are:
a) Bart Scott, Ellison, Bowen (WLB) - POZ, DiGiorgio (MLB) - Mitchell, Ellison (SLB)
b) Mitchell, Ellison, Bowen (WLB) - Vilma, DiGiogio (MLB) - POZ, Ellison (SLB)
* This assumes that we could resign Ellison & DiGi cheap. In either case, I would like to draft for depth.
I am interested in what you guys think and to see if people agree with me or think that I am in left field altogether. Obviously there are guys in the draft but as you all know I am quite entrenched in the belief that we should get Alex Mack with our first and then a DE with our 2nd pick which leaves the opportunity to find a stud LB less likely so FA is a logical place to look.
Let the discussion begin!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
46 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
i think....
I think LB is going to be overlooked by a lot of fans this off-season, not becuase people don’t recognize the need, but because it’s going to be forgotten behind the great DE vs. C debate. I can honestly see Buffalo taking a LB in the first round of the NFL Draft…and it doesn’t matter what position.
Right now, Buffalo has two mainstays in Poz and Mitchell, but both are versatile. Poz can play all three positions and Mitchell can play on the strong or weak side. After the Bills drafted Poz, I was hoping that they would use him on the weakside, instead, becuase of their need at the position, they moved him to MLB. Similarly with Mitchell, I was expecting him to play SLB when he came in, but instead, they asked him to anchor the weak side.
In free agency, I like Vilma. He’s young (26) and probably wouldn’t demand an enormous salary (although he will get paid). He’s also had success in the middle of a 4-3 and would allow Buffalo to move Poz to the outside – where I think he can be exceptional. Other than Vilma though, free agency doesn’t excite me (although I admit that I haven’t done an exhuastive seauch of players out there).
In the draft, the best two LBs happen to be MLBs: Rey Maualuga (USC) and James Laurinaitis (Ohio St). Brian Cushing (USC) and Aaron Curry (Wake Forest) are good outside guys. All four could go in the first round and I wouldn’t be overly shocked if the Bills used their first round pick on one of them. That will be dictated on how Buffalo’s board is set up, who drafts in front of them, and what players are left on their board when its Buffalo’s turn to pick (in reality, two of the four abovementioned LBs could be off the board by the time the Bills pick).
For Buffalo to take a LB in round 1 of the draft though, they would have to address either DE or C in free agency to allow such flexability.
My ideal lstarting line-up:
Mitchell (SLB), Maualuga or Vlima (MLB), Poz (WLB)
(I would like to see Poz on the weak side as opposed to the strong side, becuause Mitchell’s size would give him a better opportunity to get off of the strong side blocker – whether it’s the TE, pulling guard or fullback. Although that would require having new players at all three positions in 09 and realistically, they would probably try to avoid such drastic change. More likely, if the Bills picked up Maualuga or Vilma, they would move Poz to the strong side and keep Mitchell on the weak side).
John I.
I don't think the Bills will address LB until rd 3 or later in the draft,
C and DE are to great of an area of need. A free agent center acquisition does not look very realistic. Ellis looks like an ongoing project at best at DE. Bowen was improving before his injury. I would not be surprised to see Bowen crack the staring line-up next season. If we address DE via free agency, then LB is a possibility but will have to compete with our need for another DT, due to the almost guaranteed release of John (bust) McCargo.
"If you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter."
I would be SHOCKED if Bowen cracked the starting lineup next year, outside of an injury. Definitely not anywhere early in the season. A rookie 5th rounder coming off a serious knee injury won’t be getting on the field too often…imo
~K
Barring injury, there is no way Bowen Starts. He’s too small. The Bills need to get bigger and more physical with their front seven. That’s why I like guys like Bart Scott and Terrell Suggs.
by buffaloboy90 on Dec 21, 2008 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
I like them better too,
but the Bills may have bigger fish to fry via free agency, like DE and WR. Bowen was listed at 223. Ellison and DiGi are listed at 229 and are both UFAs. We will most likely lose one of them. Even considering the injury, Bowen should be able to put on a few lbs of muscle this offseason. He was playing well before he was injured. I am not saying he starts on day one, but don’t be surprised if he does by mid-season. The Bills ignored the center and backup QB positions last year. This year it might be LB.
"If you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter."
I feel as if we have a better chance to improve at LB this year in the offseason. When I look at the free agent data available and then the draft data available, I feel the Bills would be better served going after a LB in FA, and a C and a DE in the draft. I think I feel this way because C and DE are bigger needs, and the draft options have a higher upside.
well...
you must be startled easily because one thing about DJ is that he plays guys who practice well. Ace Bowen was making a lot of plays in camp before his injury and had unreal college production… it wouldn’t SHOCK me if he won the job next season since the Bills will probably devalue LB as an area of need.
Bowen has awesome instincts and I’m kind of pulling for him to take the weakside job if the Bills don’t bring in some more proven talent.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Dec 21, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Cheers John
as I like your thought process a whole lot. However, I am not a big fan of Vilma at ALL. He has continually been lambasted in New Orleans the same way he was driven out of New York. Vilma often gets swallowed up by the fullback or the offensive lineman to make a play on the ball. His slight frame and his tendency to take on blockers to high leave him out of the play. His replacement in NY, David Harris, is awesome. I like Mitchell at the SLB because of his size and I think playing behind Schobel next year will help him out a lot. I would love to see Maualuga and his very physical, dominating presence at the inside. I think Poz is a natural OLB in the NFL. He has very good instincts and good reaction time to the ball, but its if he almost has slowed his game down to help get everyone else in position on the D. Put him on the outside where he has less thinking and more reacting to do.
"Live life, Love life and Laugh at life."
"Optimism is the key to Everything."
"Never have a rear view mirror in life."
It would be nice if people would discuss realistically, please
Unless you categorically disagree with either Center or DE as a 1st round selection then please do not float names like Maualuga because for sure we would have to spend our 1st round draft pick on him.
The intent of this post was to discuss how to best address the LB situation if we were to use our 2 first picks on a Center/DE or DE/Center, whichever. So given that, how can we get better at the position?
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
nothing is "for sure"
Just because DE and C happen to be our biggest needs, does not mean that Buffalo MUST or WILL draft either one in the first round. If a guy like Maualuga is available when the Bills pick and they have him higher on their board then any other player, you betcha they would take him.
John I.
Yeah, what John said. Sure, C and DE are our biggest needs, but REALISTICALLY, the Bills very well could take Maualuga.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 21, 2008 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I definitely feel better about burning our first on a LB like Maualuga then a shot in the dark DE. I am not sure what the odds are but I suspect that LBs taken high have less chances of being a big bust than DEs.
My main argument for the Mack pick is that yeah I really like Mack but even more important is that I don’t feel we are a team than can afford to waste a pick on a bust player and with DEs taken around 10-13 it is a huge possibility.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
I’d rather spend a 3rd or 4th rounder on Clay Matthews if we want a USC LB. Maualuga is a good player, but he sure looks like a 3-4 MLB to me and I’m not convinced he’s athletic enough for our scheme. We need more speed at the LB position, where we have very little of it right now…
~K
Psst… remember? Scheme flexibility? :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 21, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well, if I’m getting my way, I’m taking Curry or Cushing…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 21, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I’m all down for flexibility too, but to me, flexibility is to be able to excel in OUR scheme AND other schemes too. Maualuga would be so much better in a 3-4 scheme than a 4-3, that every 3-4 team will have him rated almost an entire round higher. I think Laurinaitis and Curry are both better 4-3 MLBs and will be picked ahead of Maualuga if 3-4 teams pass on him.
Want some 3-4 flex?
How about we take a big space eating NT in round 3?
"If you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter."
Huh?
Rey Maualuga could be the very definition of an athlete. Besides, the Bills need to start drafting more punishers… everybody seems to be obsessed with finding guys to fit your scheme… but honestly you’re better off drafting the best players you can find and having a CREATIVE scheme rather than cut n paste from someone else (i.e. the Cover 2). And Maualuga is definitely a better athlete than Matthews, think of Brian Urlacher with a bigger learning curve.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Dec 21, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
You don't have to disagree...
with DE/C being the biggest needs, but in the 1st round teams greatly lean on taking the best player on the board as well… and if Maualuga or Laurenitus are there when we pick there won’t be many guys in next year’s draft with higher grades than them.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
by ForeignArrow on Dec 21, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think Nate Webster is a really solid weakside linebacker with the versatility to play other spots who would be a great signing. As a middle tier free agent he could probably be had at a team friendly price (maybe 2-3 years at around 3 mil each).
I think guys like Vilma and Dansby are going to be very pricey this offseason and Bart Scott isn’t good enough in coverage for the Bills to even consider him.
The issue is we don’t need a weakside linebacker, we need a strong-side.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 21, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think Mitchell is pretty bad on the weakside and would make a much better strong side player. I think the reason he misses tackles a lot is because he is too stiff and lacks agility. When he is running sideline to sideline in pursuit players cut back or even just slow down and Mitchell can only get arms on the runner instead of putting a shoulder into them. The strong side where he could be coming forward and taking on players is where he belongs.
Didn’t Mitchell play MLB in Kansas City? How about we push Ellison back to Weakside, and convert Poz to Strongside?
And I am not sure if I am being sarcastic or not, so take that as you will…
Mitchell has played all three spots at some point duing his career and he has been adequate or better at all of them.
The Bills need to find the best linebacker that they can, regardless of which spot they are best at and switch the current guys around as they need too. I like Poz in the middle a lot, but he can play either outside spot too. Everyone is going to have a different offseason plan for the linebackers considering that almost everyone agrees that there are bigger needs, so you are going to see people getting VERY creative in coming up with ways to upgrade the unit. Your way (minus Ellison still starting) is totally valid.
Yeah, I am less than thrilled with Ellison starting as well, but I was operating with our current pieces. I watched Bowen in college (my ex-girlfriend’s brother goes to Iowa State, so the only way I could get her to watch games was to watch the Iowa State game every week. I feel like I lost on that end…) and he was always around the ball making plays, even against teams like Texas and Oklahoma.
One of the things I love about the offseason is also the things I hate…all the possibilities. Sometimes I go crazy about who ‘could’ be here, or what ‘could’ happen in the offseason. But for the time being, I try to operate with our current pieces. The only thing I am not sure about is Mitchell’s ability to set the defense. But Dr. Z loved him, and even while the guy is recovering from a stroke, he still is a better football mind than any other analyst or writer out there right now.
Here's another FA OLB that we could work in
How about Michael Boler from Atlanta – supposedly not a fit in their new scheme-
and moving him to WLB where he can be freed up to rush the QB behind Schobel
This lets us take a DE in Rd 2 – Jackson from LSU and move Kawika over behind him
Agreed we should take Mack in Rd 1. Big guys in rds 1 and 2 please!
Boley would be a good player, but I don’t think he’s a perfect fit for us, and somebody’s bound to overpay for him.
If you’re drafting Tyson Jackson to fix our pass rushing issues, prepare to be disappointed. He’s got 3-4 end written all over him. Think Phillip Merling.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I would be interested in Boley. He could play either linebacker spot too.
Like Brain said, Tyson Jackson is huge and lacks the burst to get after the QB. He mentioned Merling who actually can rush the passer. A better comparison is Marcus Spears and his 2 sacks a season.
Yeah, I think Scott Wright called Jackson a “better Marcus Spears”.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
His pass rushing upside is probably Spears’ 3-4 mate Chris Canty who gets 3 or 4 sacks every year. If everyone in the league ran a 4-3 and nobodu valued Jackson, he is a player I would love to pick up in the third round and play at a variety of positions in different situations. The problem is that some 3-4 team is going to fall in love with him and draft him sometime way before that.
It means that Boley doesn’t fit their scheme, which was already mentioned. :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 23, 2008 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
We blew it last April...
We had an opportunity to “steal” Dan Connor (Poz’s teammate at Penn State) in the 3rd round of the draft. Instead we opted for a DE named Chris Ellis. Carolina didn’t need a LB, yet couldn’t pass on the chance to get a projected late 1st rounder in Connor. Eight months later, LB is a position of need for the Bills? Just great foresight on the part of our front office.
How about Mike Singletary on our sidelines? You think training camp might look a bit different?
Eight months later, LB is a position of need for the Bills? Just great foresight on the part of our front office.
Well, Connor is on IR, and so is the LB we drafted, Alvin Bowen. So, really, we didn’t miss out on a whole lot.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 22, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Holy crap!
Why is this Dan Connor dude the next Singletary or Butkus to Bills fans? I’ve heard so many Bills fans saying we should have drafted this guy in the 3rd round. Um, why is this guy such a Hall of Famer? If he was so great, wouldn’t he have been taken oh, 60 picks higher????
~K
Sure he is on IR, but it’s next year that will need Connor.
And It appears anyone else we would have taken in the the third round would have contributed more than Ellis has this year.
How about Mike Singletary on our sidelines? You think training camp might look a bit different?
I am not willing to call Ellis a bust because we are coached by a bunch of wimps that are afraid. I do not trust their ability to manage who gets to start from week to week, it looks like they reward hard work but not quality. The best examples are Derek Fine & Steve Johnson. Both those guys have done very well every chance that they have gotten but yet Robert Royal & James Hardy were still starting from week to week and getting most of the snaps in practice & game days.
Like Fine & Johnson, maybe Ellis simply was not given sufficient opportunity to strut his stuff! Looking back on it today, I seriously wonder why Johnson didn’t get more opportunities and the same for Fine because Hardy was disappointing and Robert Royal was downright awful.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
only because we do not have three receivers listed. So Reed was the guy listed (Except when he got hurt).
When they go with just two WR I think it should be Evans/Johnson, Reed should be used exclusively in the Slot, where he does his best work. He is too slow and short for the outside.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
