A great 4-3 candidate

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 11:38 AM EST Comment 37 comments

For obvious reasons everyone seems to agree that Jauron should be booted out of town at the end of this season, he has had three years to prove how much of a mediocre, un-inspired coach he really is.

I've read and participated in quite a few posts regarding available candidates should DJ get booted out of town. One thing that keeps coming up is the schemes and the fact that by changing HC it would mean guting the team and starting over if the new coach in question is a proponent of a different scheme.

That got me to thinking ... I have suggested on multiple occasions that we'd be better off going to a 3-4 scheme than our current 4-3 (see my post: Analysis 4-3 vs 3-4) So given that my two top choices for the HC job are Bill Cowher and Marty Schottenheimer, I'd be a happy camper because both are 3-4 guys.

Then I looked at who realistically would be possible 4-3 candidates? There is a top guy out there that would be very interesting, a fiery young DC who has performed extremely well over the past 2 seasons and went to one of the best schools, the Jim Johnson school of Blitz : Steve Spagnuolo

Every time I brought up the suggestion of converting back to a 3-4, the main objection has always been that we are lacking too much personel - that Stroud is too small to be an effective NT, that only too of our LBs could be adequate, etc. As much as I would love to convert back to a 3-4, I'll admit that it could set us back a year...

Steve Spagnuolo would be an ideal candidate in Buffalo. He is young and full of upside. He understands the 4-3 in ways most only dream of, he knows how to bring pressure and keep the pedal to the medal, complete opposite of the crappy "bend but don't break" attitude currently displayed by our pansy coaching staff, he has coached probowl players for 8 of his 10 years! He is a defensive minded coach that has had most of his success on teams that run the ball extremely well and put a lot of effort in building strong -O-Line/D-Line's. He is a guy that has been coaching under Tom Coughlin who is known to be a disciplinarian, someone who brings a lot of accountability to the table, a disciple of the great and all mighty Bill Parcells! Another huge advantage is that Steve comes from a cold weather smash-mouth football team.

I still think that Cowher/Schottenheimer are probably the best two candidates given their vast experience as head coaches but given the very low probability of getting them and the potential set back from converting to a 3-4 I have come to the conclusion that I must look at the other possible candidates. I think that Steve Spagnuolo would be a great fit because he fits into our system right out of the gates and if anyone can make something happen with our young stars, he can.

This is not meant to be a debate if Jauron should be fired or not because we've done that in other posts, it is meant as an open discussion regarding the possible candidates out there and the idea that a new head coach would possibly change the schemes, which could possibly set us back a bit.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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Spags will be a hot commodity when the “coaching season” starts. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t love to see him here if D.J. were to get the boot, just that he will have his choice of places to go, and unless Ralph ponies up the bucks, he isn’t coming here.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 3, 2008 12:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed with everything sireric said.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 3, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup, and the issue here is that higher coaching salaries come out of Wilson's pocket

Coaches don’t count against the cap, and most teams pay them seperately from the TV money. That means most teams are ponying up the cash from their own Revenues. I can bet you Ralphie boy wouldn’t cough up the cash out of his own pocket unless you force him too. The Toronto deal? All of that cash went in Ralphs pocket, and not a cent will be spent on the team probably. Thats why people arguing that Ralph isn’t spending enough money are getting it wrong.

Its not that he isn’t willing to spend the TV contract money, its that he is not willing to spend HIS OWN money on this team. If he keeps all costs down below the TV money level, he can then use that to pay for everything. Isn’t it then odd that we seem to always be well under the cap? Just saying. Besides, since the NFL won’t open its books to the world and/or Congress, no one knows for sure the exact profits of an NFL team, but the last time I checked the estimate is right now that an NFL franchise, regardless of where it is, makes about 30-45 Million a year in profit. Even sad sack franchises like the Lions and Bengals make cash. Why do you think Brown refuses to spend any real money on Scouts and Coaches? Because it takes away from the free cash…..

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Dec 3, 2008 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wait a minute

If you were a smart businessman with a lot of money wouldn’t you want to invest a larger amount of money, say $2 million more, for a better coach who could potentially get you into the Super Bowl because if you did get there and win your team would probably rake in $50 million in sales merchandise?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 3, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unlike other franchises that are not for sale

This one is. Ralph is in the unique position to create some buzz around the Buffalo Bills by hiring a dream team of coaches. We have a very young & talented team and with the proper guidance could be a serious contender for many years to come. You get a guy like Cowher in place and get into the playoffs and the team goes up easily by 50-100M$.

Ralph is no dummy. Spending 7-10M$ more over the next 2-3 years in order to dramatically increase the value of his team makes sense any way that you choose to look at it.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But does he care about how much the team is worth?

He’s not gonna see a dime of it so why does he care?

by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would think that he cares

He is a father & husband. Got to think that he is thinking of them at this point

by keysh67 on Dec 4, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steve Spagnuolo would be exacltly what we need, and

will certain be cheaper than Cowher. Also, if the Giants get to the Super Bowl, may vacancies will have been filled by the time teams can talk with him. If Ralf wants Steve Spagnuolo, he can make him an offer he can’t refuse!

by Joe P. on Dec 3, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ralph is dead weight...

I know it’s not very nice to wish bad things but as a die hard Bills fan it sure is difficult to keep reading that Ralph won’t do this or won’t do that..

So basically wishing for “meaningful” change means that we are wish for Ralph to be out of the picture.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The average salary of all NFL head coaches is $2.5M

DJ’s salary is 1.5M making him the 30th ranked. Before any talk of a new HC goes further, someone tell me if our owner will pony up $3M for a decent HC. Cowher and Spagnuolo will get more than $3M. We’d be better off looking for a good college HC who wants to give the NFL a try. Unless our owner is willing to part with some Toronto money, our chances of landing a proven NFL HC are slim to nil, and slim has already left town.

everything goes better with bacon

by keuka121 on Dec 3, 2008 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Turner Gill???

Just kidding….

by MattRichWarren on Dec 3, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do we support this team?

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Because they're awesome!

And we are going to be nasty for the next ten years!!! Trent has played a year, Poz a year, Lynch 2 years, Peters young as hell, McKelvin less than 1 year, and the rest of the team is below 30 except for a couple of guys!

patience my friend! Think about that list, how can you not be optimistic about the future. Pieces in place for the long term, middle linebacker, QB, running back, playmaking corner, franchise left tackle! We have the keys in place!

Man I just cheered myself up after being so down all day. Whatever, so we’re a long shot this year, I’ll be ecstatic if we make the playoffs. If we don’t, well we weren’t supposed to be noise makers this year yet anyway. Our time is coming Key!

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 3, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At the start of this year...

Would you have spit in the face of 10-6 or even 9-7? Did anyone expect us to make the playoffs easy? I did and so did Donte Whitner but maybe that was unrealistic.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 3, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!!

But why are so many people so negative about our possibility of getting a decent coach?

I understand that Ralph has always been a cheap guy but you would think that logic would prevail here:

1) Would he like to see his team win a Superbowl or at least make a deep run into the playoffs while he is still around? I would certainly hope that he would.

2) With all the extra revenue from the Toronto series he certainly can afford it, so not spending on good coaching is extremely penny-wise & dollar foolish, given that the team would be worth a hell of a lot more is it was a serious contender.

3) I understand that he cannot sell the team before he dies because the taxes would be much higher than after he dies so it makes sense that he is waiting it out. That being established, getting a top end coaching staff in place to make a run would only make the team that much more valuable when it gets sold.

I choose to think that Ralph might surprise us all this off season!

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Boy, if there’s one argument that’s overplayed in the Bills fan base (and I’m not singling you out, keysh), it’s the “Ralph is cheap” crap.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I post an article about a great potential candidate and all I get is that we can't afford him

and that the only thing we can hope for is to find a diamond in the rough College coach.

C’mon, all I am saying is that I refuse to believe that Ralph Wilson is oblivious to the potential upside of digging deep into his pockets and putting the right guy in place. The value he will get for a Bills team that would be a contender would be far greater than the extra couple of $M that it will cost him to put the right guy in place.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It certainly wasn’t me saying that we couldn’t afford this guy. My only argument has ever been that there’s going to be a lot of vacancies, and the pull to Buffalo is a weak one for the bigger names. You know how the Bills have to overpay for big free agents like Dockery? The same is true of coaches. We’d have to pay Bill Cowher money to get Spagnuolo here, and set a league coaching salary record to get Cowher himself – and Cowher may still set that record at a more convenient place for him.

Ralph isn’t cheap.

You want the name of a young coach that knows our scheme, is young and players rave about him? Don Banks mentioned him this week; Bucs DB coach Raheem Morris. They call him the “next Mike Tomlin”.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Please not another ex-DB guy running the team!

I’d prefer Russ Grimm

We need someone that can focus on building the trenches in the drafts, no someone always looking for more DBs

I realize that this characterization is pushing it but I still would prefer someone that has earned his living working from the trenches outwards.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I like you’re Steve Spagnulo name toss out. He is a great coach. Here’s my line of thinking though. IF and that is a big IF (because I do think Jauron should get one more year and even if I thought he should go now I don’t think the Bills would cut him loose) we do go for a new coach I think I would want an offensive minded coach for a change. There is simply too much young talent on the offense between Trent, Marshawn, Hardy, Peters, Butler, Fred, Evans, Parrish for us not to try and bring in a guy who can bring these guys to life. Or at least figure out how best to develop and give an identity to this young offense.

This is why I firmly believe in firing Turk, keeping Jauron, and bringing in an expensive and high quality offensive coordinator. I think with Jauron clearly beginning to doubt Turk (and for Jauron the slightest and most subtle negative statement about anyone on his staff is the equivalent of burning hatred and condemnation by any other normally emotional human) he will be gone next year. I think the bigger question than who is our next head coach is who is our next offensive coordinator?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 3, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My problem with this is..

Jauron is the one that hired Schonert and he put us in a situation where there is no way out until the end of the season because he has nobody else to do it. A head coach must have the kahunas to change things during the course of the season, which Jauron clearly is lacking.

Another reason why I seriously doubt that this could work is that if a up& coming Offensive coordinator were to come to buffalo and do a good job, he’d probably be in-line to replace Jauron. I doubt he’d put himself in such a precarious position so I’d expect Jauron to bring in a guy with very little credentials -again.

Spags will get a HC job in the off season so if we don’t pull the trigger someone else surely will.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Defense wins football games

The reason why I like Spagnuolo is that he is an aggressive defensive guy. Defensive guys tend to play smash-mouth football which is exactly what we should be doing here in buffalo.

This would be my “dream” team coaching staff:
HC: Steve Spagnuolo
OC: Russ Grimm
DC: Keith Butler

I think Butler would make a great Defensive coordinator and Russ Grimm would be an awesome offensive coordinator for a smash mouth type oriented team. Granted Russ has been mentioned once in a head coaching job it doesn’t mean that he’ll get another offer again this year (I’m thinking of Ron Rivera..).

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would love

Russ Grimm as OC. And I think he would want to come to Buffalo with our league largest offensive line and our tough as nails running backs. Plus a Grimm offense wouldn’t put too much pressure on Edwards.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 3, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure Russ Grimm has ever called plays. Plus, I’m not sure he’d leave his current role in Arizona (Asst. HC/O-Line) for a coordinator job he’d likely be less comfortable with. If anything, he’d leave for a head coaching gig.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His value would definitely shoot upwards

with a successful OC stint. Plus, the $$ would probably be higher as well.

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I won’t argue those two claims, because they’re likely true. However, I still maintain that it’d be hard to lure him out of his gig in AZ with anything less than a HC job. Dude’s got it made. (Not to mention he turned Mike Freaking Gandy into a competent LT. Take that, Jim McNally.)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so you can see why I'd like him as an OC..

by keysh67 on Dec 3, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. He hails from the trenches. I’m saying be a little cautious there, because just like Turk Schonert last off-season, Grimm’s never called a play.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

im not being sarcastic

I swear I’m not. But Brian, is never having called a play an excuse for not running the ball when Lynch is feeling it inside the ten, not once, not twice but thrice! (is that a word?) No one can be that incompetent.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 3, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course it isn’t an excuse. Turk Schonert is that incompetent. Yes, thrice is a word.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is this a rhetorical question?

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 3, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I myself enjoy the emotional pain that the Bills give me every year. It offsets the physical pain nicely with the spike I drive under my fingernails.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 3, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Players aren't blaming Jauron

From an NFL.COM story the Bills players have made it clear they do not blame Jauron and that they want him around. It sounds to me like the only logical conclusion is that they know Turk is bringing the team down.

A quote from Evans:

“I don’t think that it’s valid. We respect him. We can communicate with him and we love him as a coach. I guess criticism comes all the time. But it’s nothing taken serious here.”

A quote from Whitner:

He’s done a great job around here. He’s changed the culture around here from a losing attitude to guys believing that they can win. It’s up to us to get it done. I don’t feel like he should take any criticism at all.

Maybe its not a good idea to kick to the curb a coach the team believes in? Seriously, I think we need to bring in a REAL offensive coordinator.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 4, 2008 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Whitner quote makes me laugh….

He’s turned them from thinking about losing to thinking about winning, but without actually winning. And no criticism at all?

by Kurupt on Dec 4, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is that it is entirely HIS job to hire that Offensive Coordinator

And I really don’t think that he can, he has no clue or prefers to hire guys that won’t rock his steady boring boat.

by keysh67 on Dec 4, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think a new offensive coordinator would make a much bigger difference than an new HC would. Here are a few under the radar names that I would like to see calling the plays in Buffalo:

Jim Skipper – He’s been the running backs coach for the Carolina Panthers since 2002. Skipper would definitely feature the power running game in Buffalo that the organization says they want, but never really pulls off. Skipper has been so succesful that Fox promoted him a couple of seasons ago to assistant head coach. Mediocre backs like Nick Goings and Brad Hoover have looked pretty good filling in for injured players. Skipper has head coaching experience as well having coached an XFL team to the playoffs during the pathetic one year experience that the XFL was. He is coaching under John Fox and Dan Henning right now. He was the running backs coach for the Giants in the late 1990s and coached for Jim Fassel and Sean Payton and coached Tiki Barber. Skipper also coached the RBs for New Orleans between 1985 and 1996. He had two runners, Rueben Mayes and Dalton Hilliard make the pro bowl while he was in NO. Skipper has a son that is the tight ends coach with the Oakland Raiders and a son who coaches the running backs at Fresno St., so maye Skipper would bring some family with him.

Mike Shula – Not exactly an under the radar name. Shula is currently the QB coach for Del Rio and Jacksonville. Shula coached Jay Fiedler into looking like a decent QB when he was the Dolphins QB coach during 2000-2002. Shula has plenty of experience calling plays and making decisions as well. He was the head coach for Alabama for four years and the offensive coordinator in Tampa Bay for four seasons. He coahced under Tony Dungy in Tampa and was part of a coaching staff that went to the playoffs twice.

Craig Johnson – He’s been the QB coach for Tennessee for the last 7 years. He has coached under Jeff Fisher, Norm Chow and Mike Heimerdinger. Johnson joined the Titans after spending 15 years coaching for various colleges. He also has experience calling plays as the offensive coordinator at VMI from 1989-1991 and at Maryland from 1997-1999. At Maryland he featured a run heavy offense that led the ACC in rushing one year.

by kaisertown on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs