Return of Jauron must signal bigger change in Buffalo
by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:02 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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In a move that should not surprise the vast majority of the Buffalo Bills' fan base, team owner Ralph Wilson and his "inner circle" of trusted confidants have decided to retain embattled head coach Dick Jauron for the 2009 NFL season.
The move to retain Jauron shouldn't surprise many, but that doesn't mean that Wilson's announcement is devoid of potentially shocking news. Jauron will retain a degree of say over personnel decisions and, more importantly, his coaching staff will likely remain completely intact as well - barring any of his assistants getting jobs elsewhere.
"I believe that this team, at this time, is better served by continuity in the coaching staff rather than a disruptive overhaul," Wilson claimed in Tuesday afternoon's press release. Jauron's coaching staff has been nearly as embattled as the head coach himself, yet it appears likely that offensive coordinator Turk Schonert, defensive coordinator Perry Fewell and their respective staffs will be in Buffalo in 2009 as well. If retaining Jauron doesn't send a few Bills fans over the edge, that fact might. Even though Wilson made it clear that he shares fans' "dissatisfaction with our offensive game management", no changes are currently anticipated.
If this decision by Wilson and his confidants is anything, it's certainly bold. Casting public image aside and sacrificing PR points in making this decision, Buffalo's entire football operations group and coaching staff will now be squarely on the hot seat. Wilson did confirm that Jauron has a new three-year deal, but didn't confirm that it lasts through 2011; Schonert, Fewell and the majority of Buffalo's coaching staff are under contract through the end of next season. 2009 is now a "playoffs or bust" year in Buffalo - and if that goal isn't achieved, wholesale change is expected.
It's now on the players
Back on December 7, Wilson essentially gave his coaching staff an endorsement when he said "We haven't got the talent". That was a direct slight from Wilson to the young players on this team; however, he's changed his tone. Wilson said this today about his players:
"I believe in the last few years we have gotten close personnel wise and look forward to another strong draft, more assertive veteran leadership and continued improvement from our young quarterback."
Another strong draft implies that Wilson has liked previous drafts, all while claiming that his roster lacks talent. That logic doesn't exactly fly, but Wilson is right about two points: Buffalo needs more veteran leadership, and this team goes as Trent Edwards goes. There's no easier way to say it: if the Bills have a prayer of putting butts in the seats at Ralph Wilson Stadium next season, they're going to need to make some waves with player acquisitions this off-season. Expect the Bills to be aggressive in attempting to fix the issues on the roster.
Bills players have repeatedly made it clear that they fully supported Jauron returning as the head coach. It's time for them to prove why they're confident in his abilities. Whether it's guys currently on the roster or guys that are brought in in the coming months, there's more pressure than ever on Buffalo's players to produce for "their" head coach. And that's an important fact to note: Dick Jauron is very much his players' head coach. The fan base has no loyalty for the man. It's all on the players.
Say good-bye to consensus
We have heard whispers as recently as Tuesday morning that things were chaotic in Buffalo's front office during this two-day decision making process. "Lines were drawn" in Wilson's "inner circle", with some of Wilson's confidants campaigning to keep Jauron and others arguing for his dismissal. I, myself, have heard rumors of discord between decision-makers as far back as this past April.
The issues with Wilson's preferred consensus-building, "inner circle" approach to his front office structure became brutally apparent Tuesday evening. This was by far the most important decision the Bills as an organization have made since this structure was implemented, and right now, they're batting 1.000 in terms of having internal strife on key decisions.
Whether you agree with retaining Jauron or not, one thing is certain: consensus is gone. The "inner circle" rules all, and those who oppose it are tagging along, their frustrations festering. The coaching situation, even with a vote of confidence from Wilson, will remain a source of strife unless the Bills reach the playoffs in 2009. The Bills' decision-making structure is chaotic, folks, and it's going to disintegrate the more the group is put through key situations like this.
The absolute bottom line
Dick Jauron will coach the Buffalo Bills in 2009. Chances are high that his coaching staff will be retained. The front office obviously isn't changing, either. That's where the lack of change is likely to end. Expect big moves in personnel. Don't be surprised if you see some substantial schematic changes, too. The Bills still need to sell their product. Waves must be made, one way or another. To anticipate otherwise isn't unexpected, but it would represent the biggest failure of this front office yet.
Wilson needs to realize that this is an endorsement, and nothing more. Nothing is fixed with an endorsement. With his front office boiling, his fans irate and changes to be made - or else - Wilson has metaphorically fired nuclear bombs into the space-time continuum, with the nukes scheduled to land a calendar year from now. Only a playoff berth can safely blow the nukes out of the sky. If it doesn't happen, the fallout is going to be absolutely massive.
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Whether or not change comes at all on the field will be harder to determine now
If Turk remains, we may see some improvement, but only if the personal get better who are running it. If Fewell stays and they get a true fat boy to man the middle, then we will be better on Run D and if we get some sort of pass rusher from wherever the D will be better. Thats all well and good, but ummm, yeah Ralph this is about the playoffs pal, and if the team fizzles in any way shape or form, the rumblings of discontent and low key mutiny in the fans right now will blow up like the Bounty and leave the American Revolution behind for vitriol.
Sigh, anyhow, as far as I am concerned, its playoffs or bust next year now no matter what. Probably won’t happen no matter who is brought in player wise for whatever ungodly some of cash, and we will then be FORCED to blow the whole thing up and start over. Should really be doing that THIS season Ralphie boy while you still had fans willing to put money down. If this team tanks, especially given its possible out of Division foes next year, we could see a lot worse record and whole heck of a lot of angrier fans.
Sorry for rambling like this, but at this point I’m kind of numb, like a prisoner beaten one to many times who no longer cares what happens to him. Ralph could come out and tomorrow and prove he is a space alien and I will just shrug and accept it. What will be will be, and until something happens that truly tells me that things will change for the better, I will continue to be indifferent till the next seasons games start.
Btw, things that would make me notice:
Turk gets canned
DJ gets canned
Wilson realizes he needs a GM and somehow bags Pioli before the Browns get him
We actually do the smart thing, fall back in the draft grab Mack with our now late 1st rounder and snatch Selvie either late in the 1st or very early in the 2nd
Anything relating to the Bills being sold and/or Ralph dying
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
Maybe Ralf knew Cowher would not coach this year (as per the lastest report)
So he gives Jauron one last chance to get his poop in a group. If not, then we go after “The Chin”!!!!
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
If you were wondering.....Latest + last = Lastest.......LOL...I guess I am a little numb myself.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
Then he could have hired Shanahan
Overrated, but at least he actually won something once upon a time.
The “Ralph dying” stuff is getting old, folks…
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but that’s not what I meant. The derogatory stuff is what’s getting old, and I only responded to WA’s mention of it because it reminded me.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I did not mean it in a derogatory manner Bri
I mean it as a simple fact it WILL be one of the biggest things to happen to the Bills now or in the future along with the sale of the team. Though the two may end up NOT being linked to one another, it is something that would make me take notice.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
Oh no, I figured that, WA. Like I said, it just reminded me that I had seen a few of those derogatory comments recently and had meant to make that opinion of mine known.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
i think it is worth noting though that because of Ralph’s advanced age there is significant instability in the franchise, maybe more than any other in the NFL, and that it is repugnant to bigshot coaches. Why get up and move to Buffalo when a new owner could make you move to LA or fire you just because you’re not his guy? This combined with Ralph’s reluctance to bring in outsiders are why I think Jauron is probably the best we could get.
Anyway, while it might seem distasteful, Ralph’s age is (I believe) certainly detrimental to the team’s chances at success.
Never said his age wasn’t an issue. I’m talking about people specifically calling for his death, a.k.a. “Please Ralph just die already so we can win”, and other posts along those lines. It’s offensive to me to think that someone values a winning football franchise over human life.
I’m not saying “never mention Wilson’s age again!”, merely requesting that if it’s brought up respectfully. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen to that....
It’s offensive to me to think that someone values a winning football franchise over human life.
Not saying you meant it that way WA….but its disturbing to me that people mention him in that manner.
There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?
by MonStarr_716 on Dec 31, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
well atleast he's live a long full and profitable life........
wouldnt we all love to say that.
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
This plan reminds me of the "Underpants Gnomes" plan
step 1 – Steal underpants/Retain Staff
step 2 – ????
step 3 – Profit!
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
For those who don’t watch South Park.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Here is a link to the show itself
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103595
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
If you don't want to watch the whole thing, you can fast forward to the 18:00 mark
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
Step 2: Go 7-9 again
Of course, the Underpants Gnomes didn’t settle for underachievement, did they?
small change
good post, as usual, Brian. Hopefully you are right about ralph being aggressive in free agency. we need more talent (julius peppers would be cool) and, more important, we need players who want the playoffs as much as the fans do. not sure we have the talent or the desire now. If Ralph is giving staff/office one more year to make good, he should start thinking about plan B ( a strong football guy in charge) now.
Can't say I'm irate
It’s more like I’m beaten down and weathered beyond repair by this perpetually ridiculous franchise. I won’t lie and say I won’t be rooting for the BIlls come September, but I can honestly say I’m going to make a real effort to care far less. It’s obvious that Wilson doesn’t care. It’s obvious that the players don’t care. What’s the point? Am I heading up for the opener? No thanks. Shelling out $350 for the NFL Ticket? Nah. The draft’s televised for free- as Bills’ fans, that’s the highlight of our season anyway.
I can honestly say I’m going to make a real effort to care far less.
I imagine that’s how a lot of folks will be dealing. It’s a plan of attack I might follow as well.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
temper your expectations and disappointment will be less severe.......
thats my approach……as horrible as it sounds….
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 30, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Ahhh apathy, sweet apathy
Maybe that is perhaps the best way to go, I need a good dose of it myself…
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
I dont think
that Ralph doesn’t care, but I compare him to my grandma. Fifteen years ago she was open to trying new foods, doing all this new stuff, and now that she (just) hit 90 its like she cannot do anything that she hasnt made the decision to do. Honestly I really believe that Ralph cares, he is just so stubborn that he wont allow anyone to tell him he is wrong or to believe that maybe he made the wrong decision!
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 30, 2008 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
If no Cowher, the rest of the candidates seem to be very questionable.
While personally, in today’s NFL, I don’t see a coach of Cowher’s star power coming here, I have always liked him and would be proud if he were our coach.
In terms of this decision…I think it is a poor, weak decision at this point, and also feel that if there are not significant changes made as Brian has stated in his excellent post, then i am unsure what to think.
We need, schematic wise:
New O-Line scheme (talent needed – C)
More aggressive D (talent – DE, OLB, FS)
A commitment to power running (talent – top of the line FB)
And a go to guy for the QB (talent – TE)
With that, the rest of the offense should open up, and the D should be more fear instilling. i think our team does have talent, but I am hoping for one thing. As Wade Phillips seems to be doing, Dicky-Jay needs to get harder on these guys. They need to start drinking blood or something. I know its the modern NFL, but I want a different attitude from the team. Not just the respectful banter for the media, or the same old shpeal (spell check?), I would rather not even hear from the player’s, and keep them sequestered like gladiators, locked in cages but for only practice and games…okay, I’m crazy…
Just get winning, and I’ll start smiling. I like the draft and FA, so here goes, I’ll die lovin’ this god forsaken team
The Bills CAN win every game
Oh yeah
So that’s a solid draft, and if it goes bad, will have a top 5 pick for the following regime
The Bills CAN win every game
They need to start drinking blood or something.
Haha, wow. Didn’t see that one coming.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
It might work
I just don’t think we’re tough that’s all. They have to get as crazy as the fans…I mean Lynch and Jackson come out in war paint and the rest of’em run to get jackets on…if anything, its a reason I wish Schoebel was back; first, to better gauge his talent next to Stroud, and second, because he is a no nonsense guy, who doesn’t talk much, but puts it all out there.
The Bills CAN win every game
Lynch
Seriously I think Lynch should be a captain next year. Maybe if a lot of the players see that it is there captain who goes balls to the walls plays every down like its his last etc. etc. then some of the other people will start to play with a little more passion and with a little more “fire under there arse”
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 30, 2008 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch my not be the captain type.
He leads with his actions on the field, but off the field he seems to be a bit of a goof ball.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
Bit of a goof-ball on the field too
The Bills CAN win every game
by killascript on Dec 30, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Fantastic point on the coat thing. This may be a really stupid thing to point out (and please tell me if it is), but has anyone else noticed that there appears to be a guy on the Bills sideline whose sole purpose is to hold a coat for Roscoe to run over and huddle under during TV timeouts. Seriously, anytime the temperature dips under 50, there is a guy on the sidelines that holds a coat that Parrish runs to during time outs. Not even when the D is on the field (which I might understand). He can’t stand on the field for 3 minutes in the cold.
he's like a buck fiffy soaken wet..........give the guy a break......
no meat or insulation to speak of
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 30, 2008 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Big deal
So am I (well a little more, but so is he) and he’s bigger than me, and an athlete, and he needs to get tougher. Frankly, he needs to just worry about catching punts. He made nearly zero plays on offense and does little to instill any sort of confidence in him as a WR
The Bills CAN win every game
by killascript on Dec 30, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
its not like he gets alot of chances on O
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
We’ve got coaches that don’t practice outside and don’t demand any toughness. Why expect anything else? If Roscie is allowed to do it, why wouldn’t he do it"?
~K
LOL
Roscie
Please tell me that wasn’t a typo….
There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?
by MonStarr_716 on Dec 31, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
It was at first
but when I went to change it, I just couldn’t do it. It was too funny and appropriate….
~K
Very good post
I am not sure we need a new O-line scheme. It is the talent on the line that is the problem. If we draft a center and have a happy Peters in camp, that will go a long way. Then, it is all about having the will to dominate, or as you say…..start drinking blood!!!!
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
Status quo
Sorry I’m not drinking the kool-aid.
The expectation that this means “big moves in personnel” is nothing but wishful thinking until I see otherwise.
The universal consensus by fans, insiders, and media-types alike was that somebody has to be held accountable for this season’s collapse and so far no one has been.
Deferring accountability until a later date?
This is conservative play calling. Wilson didn’t pull the trigger. He punted.
Boooo.
I’m getting the distinct impression that Wilson is holding the players accountable.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
How about holding the coaches responsible? They’re the ones making ridiculous calls, making no adjustments, getting flat out embarrassed every week, practicing indoors and getting called out every week nationally.
~K
Guys, relax. I’m not saying either way that I agree with Wilson’s plan of attack. Just reading between the lines in the press release.
Plus, you guys want more reasons to be ticked when we don’t get talent, so here it is – gift-wrapped for you. Merry Belated Christmas.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
I’d like to believe that there’s a semblance of one after 2 days of meetings… but probably not.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
The expectation that this means "big moves in personnel" is nothing but wishful thinking until I see otherwise.
This is where I stand Brian. I hold you in high regards as a blogger, informer, and (dare I say) journalist, but I’m a little confused where your theory on “big moves in personnel” is coming from? Simply because they need to sell their product? They’ve been selling their product for 50 years, regardless of its quality. Fans are terrified the Bills are going to move to Toronto, and they think (regardless of its validity) that buying season tickets will somehow have an effect on the Bills long term viability in Buffalo. Or, at the very least, if the Bills move, they will feel they did everything they could.
I’m just not sure why you believe, after watching the last 18 years of Bills football, you would think the Bills would suddenly be huge players in Free Agency. Would I like to see it? Sure. But I won’t be holding my breath. Wilson is terrified of change at this point. I don’t blame him. Considering his age, and his previous experience with handing over the reigns to an “outsider,” I’m sure he’s hoping (because he certainly can’t be sure) that he has the right people in place in the front office to make this thing work. But just because he’s grasping at straws with his personnel people and maintaining the status quo of his staff doesn’t suddenly mean he’s going to be making a splash in free agency.
Call me a skeptic (actually, that’s exactly what I am). But, unless you know something I don’t, I’m gonna go forward with the assumption that the Bills are going to continue doing what they have done the last 15 years when it comes to free agents.
by thatguy34 on Dec 30, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
well said.........rec'd
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 30, 2008 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
The Bills have occassionally gone out and made moves in the offseason
The moves aren’t always good , but Spikes, Bledsoe, and the O-line were all big moves. Really, just because they don’t always work and don’t spend as much as we’d like doesn’t mean they don’t do anything.
by Hopefulcynic on Dec 30, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
No, they do stuff
But how do you change the attitude of the team? I mean, like I said lower down in this post, some of them seem to have passion and demand respect, like Whitner chasing the Raider down the field or McKelvin getting the crowd going on MNF, but overall, this team decayed over the year and I am left with a big “?”
Anyway, maybe the Losman Virus leaving is the best thing to happen
The Bills CAN win every game
by killascript on Dec 30, 2008 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Guys, all I’m saying is that the Bills HAVE to make big moves, otherwise that’ll be a bigger mistake than keeping Jauron. I’m telling you to expect it because if it doesn’t happen, you’ll have MORE reason to be ticked than after hearing this.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 6:39 AM EST up reply actions
Well said indeed
Status quo, status quo. Ralph is not interested. We may get a “peppering” of FAs, more solid
B-Listers like Stroud and Mitchell – but I have no expectations and I am in agreement, there is no
precedent to make me think that “Bigger change” is coming. Expect 8-8 next year and they’ll probably draft another CB first!
that said, I will still go to as many games as I can and watch as many too!
an 8-8 season would be welcomed......right now....especially looking at the sched for next year.
I know you shouldnt base future results on past performance……but with our coaching staff still intact im not sure I like the teams chances to win more than 5 games next year
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think Brian is on to something with this article.
I expect some coaching changes because what we had been hearing all day yesterday is that Jauron’s fate will be largely determined based on his willingness to make coaching changes. I bet Fewell stays (and in all honesty, he runs Jauron’s scheme and a new DC wouldn’t make this defense look any different. A pass rush is the only way to make this defense look any different). I do expect Schonert to be fired and probably Van Pelt and some of the other offensive position coaches with him. Studesville (RBs) seems like a lock to stay and Charlie Coiner (TEs) might be safe. Sean Kugler (OL), Ray Brown (assistant OL), Tyke Tolbert (WRs) and Nate Hackett (Offensive quality control) might be in more trouble.
A couple of years ago it was Langston Walker, Derrick Dockery and Bryan Scott.
Last year it was Marcus Stroud, Kawika Mitchell and Spencer Johnson.
Why wouldn’t we expect the Bills to go after one pretty big name, one very solid name and one or two other decent players in FA? it is what they have done two years in a row now. I know Dock got overpaid and Mitchell has been hit and miss this year, but they are trying to shake things up each offseason.
Is it that crazy to think the Bills will sign one good player (Vilma, Dansby, B. Berry, Meester, Sean Jones), another pretty good player (Heath Evans, Tony Richardson, Michael Boley, Jovan Haye, CJ Mosley, LeRoy Hill etc….) and a couple of other contributers (Russ Hochstein, Lorenzo Neal, Jabar Gaffney, Nate Webster, James Butler, Matt Giordano, Demetric Evans, Grey Ruegamer, backup QB etc…..)?
Its not so bad
I love to say I told you so. I love the Bills to win. Since I believe Jauron should go then either one of those two things will happen next year.
Haha, win-win!
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 30, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Could this not be over yet?
Could Wilson be waiting a bit before firing Jauron? Maybe for him not getting rid of Turk? Only maybe this time he gives Jauron the Al Davis treatment and screws him out of his extension money?
Yeah, I know. Faint hope….
I would not hope for that
If Ralf starts acting like Davis, we will have 0 chance of getting a good HC to come here, instead of the 2% chance we have now.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
There are only 32 OC jobs in the world....
I think good people would be interested, particularly if they thought Jauron wouldn’t last….making them the heir apparent…
by Ron From NM on Dec 30, 2008 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
he'll have to do something he hates
to do to make some waves and that is spend some money. hopefully we’ll get a couple playmakers this offseason and then we can be on our way.
only problem is getting people to want to play in buffalo.
Just want to point something out from this quote by Kelsay
Bills defensive end and co-captain Chris Kelsay said he is “ecstatic” that Jauron is still the coach. “I think I can speak on behalf of our entire team that that’s what we wanted to see happen,” Kelsay said. “To see the team move forward without him, I think would’ve been a terrible thing, really.” /bq
Gee Kelsay, I wonder why your sorry ass is so happy. If DJ was gone your butt would be one of the first over paid bums tossed out the door. I still hope your ass gets cut anyhow, we need the cap space to sign a real freaking football player to play DE, not that corpse of yours.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
Continuing the above thing
According to the same SI.com report the decision to keep DJ was mainly influenced by these two guys:
The decision to retain Jauron came with input from chief operating officer Russ Brandon and vice president and chief scout Tom Modrak, who will be receiving a larger say in the team’s football-related decisions. /bq
And here I thought Brandon was alot sharper PR man. Oh well, ahhhh, and Kelsay points out another thing that gets my goat regarding him.
“It’s like starting from square one again, so we wouldn’t have the growth that we’ve had the last couple of years,” Kelsay said. “We can continue on from here and move forward and continue to improve.” /bq
What improvement Kelsay? That statistically were are better than last year? Even though we had more healthy players? Your sorry butt is still out there, I HATE YOU.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
LOL jeeze friend............
I feel your frustration
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 30, 2008 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry suffering from Apathy and Blind Rage
I just hate Kelsay at this point, why the hell the media even talks to that bum makes me scratch my head hard.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
You're right though
If someone else came here, like let’s just use Parcells for instance…he wuld look at the player, look at the salary, look at the production and then say, yu’re out of here. He is over paid, over played, and well, that’s enough. e’s out there too dam much and makes zero plays. Okay, sure there are plays made here and there, but we just don’t make alot of plays that keep things moving on eiterh side…oh man, this sucks, all around
The Bills CAN win every game
by killascript on Dec 30, 2008 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think part of my rage right now is that...
The Bills are now a complete laughingstock of an Organization on AND off the field. We have been punchlines before, but this is just sad. Were only lucky that the Lions and Raiders are more poorly run, if they weren’t as bad as they are now, we would be getting shredded even worse in the press. We cannot as a team find our way out of a paper bag with a a GPS, Compass, Pocahontas and Lewis and Clark to help us.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
I think you might be passing the red line on the rage meter?
What is done is done. We will see if the dodoes keep buying tickets and jersies. I will not be unless they make on hell of a big splash, and even then I will probably wait to see if King CAC has learned anything from his near death experience.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
The reason the players wanted Jauron back is that they will be back. Anybody who’s gotten a new contract in the past 3 years really shouldn’t be all that worried…
~K
Coors Light
Is that a a coors light in his bookbag? No wonder he cant coach on game day. Haha
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Actually I heard a great analogy the other day regarding how the players want Jauron back (I think it was on 550 but I’m not sure). It’s sorta like how students always love the easy, laid back teacher. He doesn’t make them work hard, he doesn’t punish them, so they love him. Of course, he doesn’t push them or make them any better either, but they’re students, what do they know?
Jauron’s the easy teacher. The push over. The new guy. And the students have run amok.
I dont agree with that......
The players play hard……..I dont doubt that at all….its just the preparation/game planning/game day decisions that are lacking……
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
But other organizations (Jets, Browns, now the Broncos, etc.) simply pulled the trigger without all the build-up. The build-up is simply providing cover to an organization that NEVER intended to fire Jauron in the first place. Jauron was never left dangling in the wind – the fans were. Thats why there’s no accountability. Thats why this decision is a non-decision and thats why there will continue to be a leadership void in this organization. I’m not pissed that they didn’t fire him, I’m pissed that this “insider circle” will never be broken until the old man relinquishes ownership.
by Zumone on Dec 30, 2008 10:06 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Can we blame Ralf on this one?
Of course we can, but I get the feeling from the reports that Brandon and Modrak talked him out of it.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
I’m also willing to wait and see what happens to Turk before I go fully ballistic
But it seems to me part of the problem is that Ralph and company have become so insular that their decisions seem to be based not on whats best for the football team but how best to maintain that insularity. So instead of expanding the search for an OC to the big names out there back in early 2008 for example, they settled on a “safe” insular pick – Turk Schonert.
And instead of risking bringing in an outsider into the head coaching position, they want to play it safe with Jauron. They are calling this continuity.
I say the Emperor’s has no Clothes.
stubborn thats all it is…it seems a lot of old people (as i referenced my grandmother earlier) does the same thing. They are so stubborn that they refuse to make changes because they feel everything they do and say is absolutely right. Same exact thing with Ralph!
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Rec’d. Another good point Zumone. (I’m going to make an effort to rec more comments – there are a lot of smart people on this blog).
And Joe, regardless of whether Brandon and Modrak talked him in or out of it, he is the owner and president. He has the final say. He is ultimately responsible.
I agree with you on that,
but I also have experience dealing with older people. They start to doubt their own judgment. They put their faith in people they trust to give them good advise. I am not trying to be a Ralf apologist. I just think he is listening to the people he trusts the most. I wish one of them would convince him to sell the team to Jimbo and his backers.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
The inner circle is Ralph’s inner circle because they will not disagree with him… It may be an inner circle but even though they may say that they dont want this draft pick or that free agent no one has the gumption to stand up to Ralph and really say what they mean. Reminds me of the Russian Parliament with Putin supposedly a second fiddle to Medvedev yet everyone in the world knows who owns all the power there!
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Mike Shanahan
Well I just head something very disturbing on ESPN News… They say that reportedly (IK its not official) that Shanahan was fireed in part because he would not fire his defensive coordinator. The funny thing is, it seems that Jauron is going to do the EXACT same thing with his lame OC, yet Ralph will not sack him. And we wonder y some teams do good and ours will be stuck with 7-9 or worse teams for years to come…
Sorry for ranting I just am so fed up that I have to spew hate somewhere!
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 12:06 AM EST reply actions
hey man thats what we're all here for.........ranting (as long as its not drunking salior talk) is always welcomed....
and appreciated!….
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Change?
I feel the meeting of the “Inners” has been nothing more than an attempt to placate the fan base, while steadfastly maintaining the status quo. I hope I am proven wrong, but one year from now we will know after the Bills have faced a very difficult schedule next year.
by BillsnBravesFan on Dec 31, 2008 8:55 AM EST reply actions
Moving Forward
No where to go but forward at this point…….
I for one agree with Brian that they will have to make a major splash in free agency in order to “sell” the fan base into buying tickets.
Without going into too much depth about our issues as we have many – I think that we will address two areas in free agency. This would be pass rush and WR#2 to help our
continued improvement from our young quarterback.
I would expect them to make a major run at TJ Whosyorudaddy for a WR#2.
Also – I would expect a major run at Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs or Julius Peppers.
While these guys may end up being locked up by their respective teams – if they are not, expect Buffalo to take a major run at one or two of these 4 players for next year.
The reason I think this is two fold:
Apparently in the meetings Ralph said that he identified a couple areas in which he wants improvement in – since these are our main areas of deficiency I would expect these areas to be addressed.
The second is selling tickets as Brian points out – if they don’t make a major run at some big name free agent – selling tickets is going to be very tough. Russ Brandon sells tickets – and he’s going to need help. I think they will go with the “gotta spend money to make money” approach.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
This was my point exactly. I’m not crying tears of self-pity OR joy over this news; it is what it is. I’ll have a problem if the roster isn’t upgraded.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not holding my breath on this one. I’d love to pick up Houshmandzadeh (I looked up the spelling-the internet is magic), but I have a hard time believing that the team would be willing to sink another several million dollars a year at the position. Neither am I sure that any of the others will hit the market. Only Suggs possibly, and I’m not sure if he’s enough of a self-motivator to play at a high level without Lewis barking in his ear at all times. I suppose a half-assed Terrell Suggs is still light years better than a whole-assed Chris Kelsay, but I’m skeptical it will happen. I guess what I’m saying is: Don’t build up a lot of free agency expectations.
by PozDispenser on Dec 31, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
well in all honesty there isn’t much to talk about but draft and free agency until OTA’s and training camp begins so this is where my focus will be for a while most likely.
but I actually would expect some free agency moves. They usually have one or two moves a year and this should be no different. If anything – we should all be expecting moves in free agency – not the other way around
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Dec 31, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
we should all be expecting moves in free agency
- more moves
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Dec 31, 2008 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t doubt that there will be some big names(Housh is a lock as I understand it), just that the big names most likely to be immediately helpful to us may not be there. All speculation at this point anyways.
And I do expect the Bills to pick up a few free agents, but much more along the lines of Kawika Mitchell (who I think was a great pickup incidentally) than Julius Peppers.
by PozDispenser on Dec 31, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Upgrading of Roster
I too anticipate the upgrading of the roster. However, the Bills past history indicates that FA money is not always well spent. Additionally, attracting young, quality FA’s will likely be more difficult, considering the depths to which this franchise has slipped.
As I endeavor to put my disappointment of yesterday behind me, my attitude is becoming we shall see what we shall see. What else can one do?
On a positive note, Brian, great job with your board. Thank you and Happy New Year to all!
by BillsnBravesFan on Dec 31, 2008 9:20 AM EST reply actions
It sucks to be a small market team - Where it's dry there is no splash!
They have us by the jewels and there’s nothing that we can do about it.
If we were in a large market there would be no chance that the team would move but being in such a small market if we stop buying tickets and the team gets sold, it will move! Our only real way to protest this would be the ticket to the bills departure. Wilson knows this deep down inside so really there is not that much fallout from his decision yesterday.
He probably got Dick to agree to a clause where if he does not make the playoffs next year the contract can be torn up and the assistants will be up next year as well so in fact he would not have any buyouts at all!
In the end, all this proves is that Wilson is more concerned with his $$ than anything else. He does not truly believe that we are close enough to a playoff run to actually do something about it. In my opinion he is an old fool that is penny wise & dollar foolish because he wants to keep what he has instead of risking a bit more to get a bigger payload (Making the playoffs would increase the value of the team a lot).
For that reason I refuse to cling to any hope that he will make a splash in the off season, there is really no need to and he obviously does not think that we have the caliber of team to be able to make a serious run so I expect coal in my stocking for 2009! Man it sucks to be a Bills fan!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Dec 31, 2008 9:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Death, taxes, and the Bills moving
These things are facts of life. These are things I used to worry about, especially the latter. With the current state of affairs at OBD, I am beginning to think it would be better for us in the long run. Many have used the abusive relationship analogy and I can’t think of a better example. I guess I am tired of being beaten by a partner who refuses to get counseling, refuses to work at the relationship, refuses to give me any hope that they want to change, that they value me. This is your last chance OBD. Actions speak louder than words. Get this relationship headed in the right direction, or I am filing for divorce!!!!
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
I am probably one of the leaders that thinks the Bills will move when Ralph passes because of the economies of scales between Buffalo and other large cities that want franchises (Las Vegas, Los Angeles).
There are a few things going for us though that cannot be underestimated:
1) The Bills have to be (anyone?) one of the biggest business in WNY. Letting a company like this go would leave WNY with a TON less money in tax revenue. The 2009 NY State budget already has money set aside to help “retain a professional football franchinse in WNY”.
2) Roger Goodell is from Jamestown and knows the passion of the Bills fanbase. It would take a very compelling case for him to agree with the move. I know that owners have the final say – but his input would greatly influence the decision.
3) If Ralph were to pass in 2010 then the tax situation would be beneficial for WNY – I am not sure on the specifics of this – but I do know that there is some tax clause in 2010 that benefits the Bills staying in WNY.
4) The economy is in a recession right now – which means that people are holding back and not spending as much. This means that corporate giants bottom line is being effected. Which in turn makes it tougher for potential suiters to come up with the cash. The state of the economies in the areas that want professional franchises could directly determine if the team stays or goes.
4b) I was recently in Las Vegas – talked with a number of people that say because of the economy not as many people are going there. As a result – there are a large number of layoffs happening.
5) You can also take into consideration Jim Kelly’s comments about having a group of financial backers. Take this with a grain of salt – but he does know people and that can get you somewhere.
I know I kind of ranted there. But I have thought a lot about the Bills moving. while i think it could happpen – there are a lot of things going for us right now. Lets keep our fingers crossed
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
forgot one point
6) The stadium is selling out. Its not like we are having blackouts every year. If this were the case I would be nervous. Right now – those seats are full. So, everyone, I implore you – if you want to help keep the Bills in WNY then carry on as usual. Go to games, buy merchandise, get NFL Sunday Ticket. Do all of these things. Because we all do have a say if the Bills stay or go. Lets not get pouty about this decision and stop buying Bills stuff, but help keep the Bills in WNY so we will have something we are all passionate to talk about. One day we will build a winner – lets make sure their in Buffalo when they do this!
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
Golisano
I have a close friend whos father is best friends with Tom Golisano, he sits in his luxury box at all the Sabres games so on so on… I know that he is seriously interested in buying the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo when the time comes
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I have thought about Golisano. The only thing that prohibits that is that he cannot own an NFL franchise while owning another professional franchise.
However, I have heard recently that he is willing to sell the sabres – to anyone who doesn’t want to move them out of WNY. this is a good thing as the reason could be because of what you stated.
I sure hope so and thanks a lot ballinbills – good info
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
That was exactly my point!!
They have us by the jewels and there’s nothing that we can do about it.
Ralph Wilson knows that even if we are pissed with his decisions, that we are so affraid of loosing the team that we will continue to fill the seats and buy apparel, which is why I said that it sucks to be a small market team!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
I know what your saying Keysh.
but I also think that all NFL owners think that exact same thing. so they carry on and do as they wish because they know how passionate Americans are about the NFL. Make no mistake – the NFL has the general public by the balls
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
All good points and reasons to hope the Bills stay in Buffalo,
but I am not sure you got my point. As long as Ralf is the owner (and I only blame him for not selling the team now) and we have the circle of jerks model of management in place, I can’t see this franchise having the ability to do what is needed to field a competitive team. As was said earlier, it is not their #1 goal. Maybe Humpty Dumpty can’t be put back together again?
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
i was replying to your death, taxes and the bills moving “all facts of life”.
as far as fielding a competitive team – i couldn’t agrue against that. they run the team completely different than i would thats for sure.
i was just commenting on your comment about the Bills leaving Buffalo
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
Tax situation
The hope is that based on current laws, there would be no federal estate tax in 2010. From what I’ve been told there would still be a capital gains tax and state estate tax, but it’s the difference between about 45% and about 20% of the worth of Ralph’s estate. I assume Ralph has significant ownings outside the Bills, but I don’t know how substantial they are.
Unfortunately the estate tax deal is an empty promise. There is very little chance that Congress will actually let 2010 come and go without addressing that.
by Hopefulcynic on Dec 31, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling that the move signals little to no change coming. Status quo in coaching, status quo in the team outside of the draft and a few mid level FA’s again.
I just don’t think I can believe anything will change. Wilson sure doesn’t seem like he plans to make any big moves. Sounded more like he’s happy with no change and keeping good, old continuity in place.
If we had made a move, brought in a new HC and coordinators, I would definitely expect change. Changes to fit their schemes and plans. Instead, we have the same schemes and same players…
~K
And there is very little that we can do about it
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
And Wilson knows it!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
Again guys, I’m not saying that we need to cling to the hope. It’s just a fact – the Bills need to make a splash. If they don’t, THAT will be the ultimate slap in the face – far more so than this announcement.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
KELSAY HAPPY WITH JAURON staying
The reason he’s so happy that Jauron is staying, along with some other players (Preston), is because these guys wouldn’t even be practice squad players on other NFL teams. This is a mistake, Jaurons decision making has been JV at best and he has cost us games, bottom line!!
Again guys, I’m not saying that we need to cling to the hope. It’s just a fact – the Bills need to make a splash. If they don’t, THAT will be the ultimate slap in the face – far more so than this announcement.
Buffalo Rumblings – all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 6:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian, I think that we Bills fans should be prepared to be collectively “Slapped in the face.” I don’t envision much more FA activity than we have seen in each of the last couple of years, which means a few average players, but no game changers…
by BillsnBravesFan on Dec 31, 2008 10:56 AM EST reply actions
From Lombardi
I am sure Jauron was steadfast in his support of his staff, but let’s not confuse loyalty with smart decisions. Yes, being loyal is very important, but part of being loyal is being loyal to the cause of winning. That is the ultimate loyalty, and the Bills must be open-minded and willing to make changes in order to improve the offense. I respect Dick Jauron and his coaching skills, but now he needs to use those skills to find a way to win next year. The one thing this meeting proved is that Dick Jauron is on a very hot seat
.
MARVelous
HA! Very Hot Seat my flaming a$$, DJ will be around till the team is sold at this point
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
That’s not how it’s going to work, WA. Come on. Jauron’s got a year to get this team to the playoffs. If he doesn’t, he’s gone.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
atleast thats the hope.........
but who knows.
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't believe that
I think 10-6 with no playoff would easily save his job.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
Yeah, but that rarely happens… except for in the past two years. :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 1, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
could be the start of a new trend?
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 1, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
This just proves
everything I already know. Here it is:
1) dick jauron is a rare breed. Honest, inegral, cerebral and loyal to a fault
2) Wilson loves those kinds of people cuz he knows they won’t backstab him
3) some people in the organization realize the incompetency that Jauron’s staff has on gameday and feel it was time for change
4) Wilson ultimately was the one who kept Jauron not because of money, but because he loves Jauron.
If they don’t make coaching changes on the offensive side, they are making a HUGE mistake. I think with better defensive personnel the defense will get better. But the offense will continue to struggle with Schonert. Stop being stupid Dick and go get someone to replace Turk. It’s one thing to be loyal its another to be stupid
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Dec 31, 2008 11:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Turk needs to go for a proven offensive mind. Looking at the teams we will be playing next year, we need to have some punch. We need a C who can command the OL, make the right calls so that Marshawn and Fred can be explosive. If we don’t, we’ll be right back here at the same time next year weloming a new head coach.
by NCbillzfan55 on Dec 31, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
A splash for me would mean
Getting Albert Haynesworth in a Bills uniform. This would be huge, imagine Stroud + Haynesworth collapsing the pocket 98% of the time!! It definitely would instantly improve our DEs
I also want them to make a serious attempt to land Owen Daniels. Derek Fine & Owen Daniels would be a great TE duo that could get the job done.
Trade down a few spots & draft Alex Mack and then pickup Michael Johnson in the 2nd round.
Drop Royal, Kelsay, McCargo, Fowler, Whittle, McIntyre
Give Jason Peters a contract extension. Re-sign Greer, Crowell & Hamdan
Trade McGee for some draft picks
Sign a veteran QB to backup Edwards, a guy like Joey Harrington or Charlie Batch (No controversies please!)
Now this would be a splash that I could live with!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Dec 31, 2008 11:12 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I agree with the Haynesworth idea, but I would stay at 11 and try for the DE out of Texas, he’s a beast. If we don’t get him then I would move down for Mack, he looks like he may be another Mangold. I agree with who your getting rid of especially Kelsay, I commented earlier on why he’s so happy Jauron is returning.
by NCbillzfan55 on Dec 31, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
He’ll be gone before pick #11
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Agreed, he won't make it to us at #11
We would be better served falling back 4-5 spots and picking Mack there while tabbing another 2nd or 3rd rounder along with it.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
We’d be better served falling back 4-5 spots and picking ANYBODY there while tabbing more picks…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed......drop down to 17-20....pick up a third and a 6th or something......
and going from there
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 31, 2008 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
ha
Haynesworth is going to get like $80 million….not a chance we would a) give up what it would take to get him and b) pay him
We don’t have extra draft picks this year, so I would be surprised to see them make a big trade. But one of the key spots needs to be filled via trade or FA. Whether its DE, TE or LB. One of those better be a big time FA signing.
I want to believe. But if they don’t go get players I might have to abort ship.
MARVelous
Not a lot of draft picks
is exactly why we should trade down and pick up some extra picks. I dont know why everyone seems keen on picking Mack in the first round everything I have read or heard says Mack is projected late second early third round pick
by ballinbills1315 on Dec 31, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
He’ll end up being a late first/early second guy.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve seen some sites that don’t even have him as the top center.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Like your good buddy Matt Miller.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
if he hits free agency we will have the cap space. every team is prohibited by the cap and we are in good standing. it depends on how the contract is worked up over a period of time.
will it be expensive? yes.
but you cannot say that we won’t do it strickly because of money – we paid high dollar amounts for dock and kelsay – what would hey pay for a proven GAME changer. more i bet
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
It is what it is
We had to retain the staff, and the Coach… You can’t blow it all up every 3 years and ever expect to get anywhere… Trent Edwards will not develop if he has 5 O.C.‘s in 5 years… He’s had Schonert for 2 years now, and next year will be the 3rd. The Offence will be in it’s second year under him – hopefully they will get a Center, a Tight End, a WR and a Full back – and begin to move the ball… but no matter who the coach was going to be – we would still need upgrades at those positions so why not keep the Coach and O.C. and get some talent to block for Lynch and Freddie
actually
And this makes your point; He had Steve Fairchild his first year, and this was his first year of Turk. So if The Bills had made a change Trent would have been in this league for 3 years and had a different OC for all three.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
I think his point was that he had Schonert as a QB coach in Year 1 and as his OC in Year 2, hence this is his third year with Turk.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ah true
So my point is different then his, but still a good point I think.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
No argument from me about how good your point is.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Dec 31, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not to beat a dead horse
and not that there is any hope of things changing in the coaching department, but found this little nugget of wisdom from Bill Cowher, most eligible coach in Football, in a Cincy Enquirer article about the Bungles:
“A football team takes on the personality of its coach,” Cowher said.
Jauron=bland=Bills
But despite it all, hope springs eternal.
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