With Edwards ailing, Losman could start Sunday
In last Sunday's lovely loss to the San Francisco 49ers, the big halftime development of the game was QB J.P. Losman filling in for an injured Trent Edwards in the second half. Losman led the offense to just 3 points in a 10-3 loss.
Edwards' groin injury continues to bother him, and it forced him to miss practice Wednesday. With Edwards likely to miss Thursday and Friday's practices as he continues to rehab, the chances that Losman will start this Sunday's matchup with the Miami Dolphins in Toronto have skyrocketed. And folks - it might not be a bad thing.
Hear me out. First, I'm not suggesting another quarterback controversy, nor am I suggesting that this move should have been made long ago, like our favorite imbecile from The Buffalo News. But it's not exactly a secret that Edwards has struggled over the past six games, and those struggles have correlated directly to the team's 1-5 record. Maybe a week off to blow off some steam and get healthy is exactly what Edwards needs. Maybe a week on the sidelines to see things in a different light would be highly beneficial to the ultra-talented second-year quarterback.
For better or worse, this is Edwards' team, and he remains the future of the franchise. But there are other ways to improve besides playing on the field, and as a more prominent point, the Bills clearly need a spark on the field. Maybe Losman can provide that spark. It's more likely that he can't, but honestly, there wasn't a negligible difference between Edwards and Losman in last week's loss to San Francisco (Edwards playing with an injured groin). Get the kid healthy, and give him a week to observe, rather than carry the team. It can be a good thing, and it may not end up being terrible for the Bills' on-field product, either.
So if Losman starts on Sunday? That's great in my book. Here's the caveat: it can't last beyond the second Edwards is healthy again. If it does, this franchise is sucked right back into that vortex of doom that is a quarterback controversy, and that can't happen.
Speaking of Trent Edwards, despite his recent struggles, his positional coach - Alex Van Pelt - still thinks Trent is going to be a great one. His words of wisdom to Trent? As Mark Gaughan puts it, "...unwavering confidence in the face of adversity is an essential characteristic of a good quarterback."
Some news to discuss on the injury front: Edwards, Robert Royal, Jabari Greer and Chris Kelsay all missed practice Wednesday, while Teddy Lehman and Copeland Bryan were limited. The good news? Donte Whitner believes he'll be making his return to the lineup, and - wait for it - Aaron Schobel practiced fully. The consensus seems to be that Schobel is still a week away, but if the vet can gut it out and play against Miami, it'd be a pretty substantial emotional lift to this team.
Let the countdown begin: 4:00 PM Eastern today (Thursday) is the deadline for the folks at the Rogers Centre to sell out the remainder of Sunday's Bills/Dolphins tickets. If they're not sold out, the game won't be televised in either Toronto or Buffalo. Time to bust out the mercy-bailout ticket purchase, Toronto and/or Buffalo business owners. I can't miss this game. Approximately 1,000 tickets remain, and the game is expected to sell out.
Hooray for Jim Kelly, who briefly discussed the fact that he wants to buy the Bills once Ralph Wilson decides he's done with his baby. Obviously Kelly didn't get into specifics about the investors who have contacted him about keeping the Bills in Buffalo, but he did offer up this little tidbit that is sure to engender feelings of love for Buffalo's golden boy:
I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of people who have contacted me, that they want to be a part of the team that stays here in Buffalo... To be honest with you, there are some people who said they wanted to own the team and take it somewhere else. I will not engage in any conversation with anybody who wants to take the team and move it - whether it's north of the border or some other city in the United States.
Long live Jim Kelly. Anybody want to hook him up with a second American Express card?
This is a fine fan-written article about Bills fans' behavior at The Ralph on Sundays. Let's just say it's bad. I heartily agree, by the way - it's a rough go of it at that stadium. It's borderline embarrassing.
More coming your way this afternoon. Hang tight.
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Seems like Losman will start
Losman does seem to play well against the ’Fins. Obviousy he has issues but lets try to look on the bright side of things for this game. It definately could help Edwards to sit and watch and heal up. Take a little stress out of him. Losman though…ewwww
As far as Jim Kelly…..man I hope he can do it. I think he’d be a great owner because he’d go after that prize that he never got. I think he would strive to get that ring and have that “whatever it takes” attitude to get us there. Just not sure he can pool enough cash together. I think the NFL should allow us to do what GB does that way we can keep the team. I know most people in here would purchase tickets if we it was run by GB. I know i would.
I wonder if it would help Trent to watch the game from upstairs.
by thefourwinds on Dec 4, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
GB style ownership
There would have to be a will on the part of ownership to sell shares in the team to fans. They wouldn’t have to sell 100, but say 49 open to sale to the public, with an owner (JK?) or conglomerate of principal owners having control of the corp.
The question is, do fans have the dough and desire to buy shares in the team? Say, if the team is valued at 800,000,000 (is that high?) fans would have to come up with 400,000,000. How many seats are at the Ralph? 80,000? 5,000 a share, with entitlement to one seat. Then you would have to buy the tickets themselves on top of that. The share just entitles you to rights to buy tix.
I don;t know if this would work, but, is there any serious talk about a plan like this? Sorry, a little off the main topics
The NFL has rules to prevent this from happening
Public ownership is discouraged. Green Bay was grandfathered and is therefore exempt from this rule.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
yes…..but they could make a change. obviously its not likely. but they could change.
doesn’t hurt the RG is from Jamestown
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
It would take a majority of owners.
And you bet the Jerry Joneses of the world don’t want to see the public involved, which could restrict NFL franchise value. Sadly, it is the right model for cities like Buffalo and RG knows it. Perhaps it would be more appealing if the revenue sharing formula was relaxed a bit.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
it’d probably take an act of god. but worth looking into. who knows. not us i know that
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
A good PR campaign might help...
If some money man stepped forward as expressing interest in the plan, then there was a concerted grassroots effort to put this kind of plan on the table, I would say there is a darn good PR campaign in the making. Fans from a city in tough times put together an offer to buy into their beloved home team which a greedy business man wants to move to a bigger city. Especially with the kinds of economic times we are looking at down the stretch, it is going to be very uncool to beat up ordinary fans, and the plot is totally Slapshot/Major League. It would play well and get a lot of air time.
Of course, the NFL would pull the stops to fight this (or maybe not?).
The big question is the money man. Tom Golisano? He seems like the kind of iconoclast who might like to be associated with something like this.
Maybe a facebook page or something at least to get the idea floating. or a webpage – buythebills.com
It would take a lot thats for sure.
Golisano would be out of the question unless he sells Sabres. NFL does not allow an owner of a professional franchise to own an NFL team.
In reality, i don’t care how its done…as long as the team stays in Buffalo. i’m just not sure that can happen
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.billsinbuffalo4ever.com/
There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?
by MonStarr_716 on Dec 5, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
well there isn’t any “serious” talk at all about anything regarding ownership at this point.
i’m not sure how much it would cost on a per-seat license. obviously you’d charge more for the club seats and 50 yard line so there would be a discrepancy on the location of the seat.
i just think it would be a good idea.
also, yes there would have to be a majority owner. JK would be a good choice, but it could even be broken down furthur with fans say 49, JK 35, then so on and so forth from different investors (as JK claims he has people interested).
regardless….nothings going to happen until Wilson decides to give up the team. whenever that is
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
NFL is COMPLETELY against GB style ownership, even part ownership
They want this to be a rich boys club, so more and more rich people fight over who gets to be in it, meaning more cash for those who are already there. Remeber the amount of money that was spent by Snyder to get the ’Skins? Thats the holy grail of ownership, some rich yahoo wants a team, your tired of owning one, sell it to that bugger for a Billion+. The NFL is such a good product, with the perfect schedule where every game is do or die, fans are rabid and willing to spend what it takes to be there, and the NFL has NO desire to let public ownership occur?
Among the other reasons? GB for instance, lets say that GB was owner by someone other than the good people of Wis. Lets say that dude gets an offer from LA to come there, and they get a 100K+ seat stadium with 150+ luxury boxes? What owner wouldn’t then use that leverage to go to GB and say, “I love Lambeau Field, but I can’t keep up economically with the other owners unless we build ourselves a new stadium and you give me boatloads of tax breaks. So, either build me a new stadium, or next season I move to LA.” Al Davis anyone? Modell? Irsay? Hello??? Thats why the NFL is DEAD SET AGAINST public ownership. They would lose all leverage in dealing with the local tax payers in getting public funding for anything if the tax payers actually, you know, OWNED THE TEAM.
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
agreed
I stated this same point in a fan post yesterday but I do think for this game only, Losman would provide a spark and help us get a much needed W. Trent is the guy, the future, the man, but JP will wing it around in an indoor stadium and reminisce about his Tulane days, and get a couple bombs to Evans. I think JP should start. And it has nothing to do with anything else than other what Brian stated. For one game. Trent needs to sit out, take a breath and maybe that will relax him for the last 3 weeks. I just hope DJ doesn’t try and keep JP in there for the last 3 games when Trent is healthy.
And to Jim Kelly, a man I met at the NYJ game a month ago….you are the man. Jim, you find a way to get investors to buy this team, keep it in Buffalo….well you should have the damn city named after you
MARVelous
Jim Kelly is now my favorite Bills QB of all time!!….Oh wait, he already was.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Jack Kemp??? Joe Ferguson???
Personally, Frank Reich was always my second favorite Bill behind Thurman. Reich was always the professional and always prepared when it was his time. Love that guy.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Jack Kemp??? Joe Ferguson???
Both before my time.
Reich was a great back-up, but it is rare that someone likes the back-up more then the pro-bowl starter.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
I was a backup on my football teams...
so I guess I always liked the backups when they did what they were supposed to do… :-)
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
I used to live a couple of blocks away from Frank Reich’s parental units when I was a kid.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
yea me too.
his wife is from my hometown and i had the luxury of drinking with him one night at a local bar. he’s really cool and down to earth. i really enjoyed our conversations. but i was drunk so i obviously had a good time :)
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If Trent doesn't practice today...
JP should start. With how Trent has held onto the ball recently with practice I don’t know how he could not practice and just start. I really loathe watching JP. I think he holds onto the ball too long but it might be better than Trent not practicing. Maybe they will run more this week….
Trent needs to get healthy
It was effecting his throws on Sunday. A groin injury is something that takes time to heal. No playoffs = no rush. The sideline perspective wouldn’t hurt as Brian suggests.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
You mean when he rolled out at the end of the first half?
I never saw it effect his throws. He was holding onto the ball, maybe because he couldn’t drive his hips. That I don’t know. I am one of the biggest Trent supporters out there.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, it DEFINITELY effected his throws. He bounced two at the feet of Derek Schouman and Josh Reed on wide open routes. He had nothing on the ball. Even that deep-ish one he had to Reed at the end of the first half, in the hail mary situation, Reed had to come back to get it.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, I thought it was another QB wearing no. 5 at that point. JP’s the guy who is supposed to one hop passes to wide-open receivers…it’s in his employment agreement. Edwards you scab!
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Why is Edwards a scab if he was hurt?
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Losman scouting report
here is from mike lombardi of nationalfootballpost.com (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/12/national-football-post-diner-news-72/)
It is obvious that the Bills will have to play with Losman, and I hope the Dolphins’ defensive line has spent time working on its rushing lanes and making sure the running of Losman does not beat them. When you face a change-of-pace quarterback like Losman and have not had a week to prepare for his style, he can create problems for defenses with his feet. But when you have time to work and prepare with attention to detail, you can make it very hard for him to win. Losman cannot win the game with his arm, but he can win the game with his loose play talent and making a few throws on the move. The way to handle this player is to be disciplined with the pass rush and make sure the two ends are in unison with their rushes. Everyone thinks that it is the two rushers working together on the same side, but when you are dealing with a running quarterback, you have to use one of your ends to force the movement of the quarterback, and normally you want to force him away from his throwing hand. In this case the left end must never come inside on his rush and allow the pocket to break down. He must build a wall from the left and force Losman to his left and feed the rush into the other rushers. So this is the game where Joey Porter needs to be over the left tackle for most of the game, thus allowing him a two-way go. And whoever rushes over Langston Walker needs to work speed around the edge, which he will struggle at times to handle. The Dolphins must limit Losman to fewer than 25 yards rushing in this game if they’re going to win.
MARVelous
Losman's feet not a problem for the MM's.
The guy just has no feel for when to take off. Lead footed Bledsoe was a much better runner than Losman will ever be. Note to JP: you know when it’s too late to run when the defender is french kissing your ear hole. Honestly, this aspect of JP’s game is what infuriates me the most. There were quite a few lost opportunities to convert critical first downs by scrambling during last Sunday’s debacle.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Sorry but...
Michael Lombardi has never seen JP play. Do a little research dude.
If Losman get’s more than 25 yards rushing…I’ll bet that the effort doesn’t lead to anything of significance. QB Rushing has a lot to do with quick decision making…something of a weakness for our dear friend. I hope he does run all over Miami, but I’m not counting on it…leave the rock toting to the beast please.
Despite my affections for the guy, I will be wearing by Losman jersey on Sunday.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
yeah
i know he doesn’t have “feel” but with a week of full practice, JP will have it, it is completely different knowing you will play rather than not. If JP makes some throws early to get comfortable, defenders will back off, and JP will have lanes to run. I think he will find them.
You know what really irritates me that I found out today? Trent Edwards was 10-21 in the 1st half last week! 20 FRIGGN PASSES IN THE 1st HALF?? WHY?? That’s absurd. IWhy the hell was he dialing up pass guys for a guy with an injured groin???? What an idiot turk
MARVelous
I hope you're right...
But if JP throws the ball 20 times in the first half…then we’re doomed. The lanes are often open for a scrambling QB…he just needs to see them and time his run accordingly. In theory, a guy like JP could freeze a LB with the threat to pass, even with noone open, then take off for a positive gain.
BTW: I was equally pissed at the pass-run ratio to start the game. C’mon this wasn’t Kansas City. Honestly Turk, you have to make the adjustment from a putrid defense to just a bad defense.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Don’t knock Lombardi. He knows what he’s talking about; one of the best analysts out there. And did you not watch Trent Edwards torch the Chiefs with his legs two weeks ago?
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yes...
But that was Trent… Despite the superior physical tools in that department, JP doesn’t run effectively.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
I get your point, but it doesn’t invalidate what Lombardi is saying. We’re not going to see the JP we’ve come to know and love this week, because he’s just going to play, rather than play constipated like he was forced to in 2006 and early in 2007 (thanks, Steve Fairchild). He can hurt a defense with his legs, and if Miami doesn’t take those precautions, he could have a big day.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
In theory, JP should have a big day with his feet, especially if Turk throws in some designed runs. However, the best scrambles are generated by opportunistic QB’s. To you seriously think that a weeks preparation will imrove JP’s ability to read and react enough to make those split second decisions? I’m sorry, but this is an OEM feature, not something you can add-on by learning.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
I just noticed that I used throw and run in the same sentence.
How’s that for balance. Let’s see some on Sunday.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
I know. I get what you’re saying. And I’m saying that an ill-prepared, hesitant, suck-tastic J.P. Losman can take advantage of running lanes if Miami isn’t cautious.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
JP has always had the physical gifts.
The ability to run, rocket arm, etc. He does not have the decision making… like when to run or get rid of the ball, etc.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Blackout????
We are playing in a stadium that only holds 51,000 people and we can’t sell it out? How lame. I am not gonna pay that much for a ticket but someone will.
The SF game should of been blacked out...
As a mercy gesture for the fans. Same could be said for this week’s game in Toronto. Losing to Miami the same way would be 1000 times more painful.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Important wording difference to note, MattRichWarren: it’s not WE that can’t sell the game out. it’s THEY who can’t. Toronto, man…
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Worrisome
While I think its unlikely the Bills will ever end up in Toronto, there is no doubt that under new ownership there will be a lot of pressure coming from the other owners to move this team to a larger market. One of the important things about the Toronto experiment is to prove to the rest of the NFL that this “larger market” already exists in the “Tor-Buff-Chester” mega-region.
Not a very auspicious start.
Not a very auspicious start.
Why not? The folks at Rogers wanted to charge outrageous prices, and they found out that their prices greatly lowered demand. Buffalo/Rochester, surrounding WNY regions are holding up our end of the bargain – we’ve sold out every game. The Centre would fill up instantly if prices were lower. That’s the only issue.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Would it be blacked out in Canada?
It is a different country and my chose not to adopt some of the silly rules we have here in the states.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Brian
Good point… but won’t we be the ones dealing with the blackout, too?
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
The only way Loseman provides a spark on the field
is if they coat the ball with flint. That way when Loseman throws his trademark turf ball it might accidentally strike the iron cleats that Hardy has been wearing. The only reason to start Loseman is to keep up the fascade that this team’s season is not over. If Jauron starts Hamdan, he has to admit the Bills are done for the year
What would you expect Van Pelt to say? Since Edwards has gotten his bell rung, he has done little to shown me he can return to form, and he has yet to show he can be a competent QB in poor weather. Until he actually does, I will be keeping a very weary eye on Edwards, who, by the way, I am praying proves Van Pelt correct.
I can say enough how much I respect Kelly. Mostly for his working with Hunters Hope, but saving the BUFFALO Bills comes in a close second!!!!
Since Edwards has gotten his bell rung, he has done little to shown me he can return to form
Did we not see this kid torch the Chargers TWO WEEKS after said concussion? The concussion has nothing to do with it, or at the most very little (does that make sense?). Edwards’ struggles have everything to do with Turk Schonert getting cocky, the lack of balance offensively, and 8-man coverages. That’s it.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget his play in Kansas City...
If he was worried about his bell being rung he doesn’t go headfirst into the end zone… I am sick of the concussion stuff. Let it go.
by MattRichWarren on Dec 4, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
QBs usually don't get concussions from diving head first or RBs would get a lot more of them...
broke/separated shoulders and the like, yes….concussions usually happen when the back of the head snaps back and hits the turf.
I would disagree
There is no way you can say Edwards is fully recovered from it. He may, I repeat may, have recovered from the physical symptoms, but he has not been the same QB since. Confidence, ability to scan the field, willingness to throw deep, and command in the pocket have all seem to have regressed. Yes, receivers need to get open, but we have seen many examples of Edwards not seeing wide open receivers. Of course Turk takes a huge portion of the blame, but as you like to say, this thread is not about Turk. If you are willing to set the bar low enough (two good games vs bad teams), then maybe you are comfortable with what you have seen from Edwards. For me, I will support Edwards because he is the Bills best QB as of right now, but I am not sold on the fact he has regained his confidence or has the ability to play in the cold. Edwards will have his chance. I really hope he will prove me wrong, but the front office better do more than hope. They need to be objective in their analysis of his performance. We are going to be in a position to draft a QB if necessary. I hope we are not so stubborn to ignore the need if it arises.
Confidence – playing bad saps confidence, not a concussion.
Ability to scan the field – he’s facing different coverages, hence taking longer to find a guy open, because, well, they’re different coverages.
Willingness to throw deep – ties back into those coverages and confidence.
Command in the pocket – ties back into confidence and just generally being flustered.
I never said I’m sold on Edwards either, but I think he’s got what it takes. The only thing you and I disagree on is whether or not the concussion is effecting him still. I think it has very close to 0% effect on what’s happened to him.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
kelsay
Kelsay was not present for personal reasons (at least this is what Chris Brown reported). So he should be fine for sunday. I really hope Schobel is able to play at least in part of the game, it may be another of those sparks we badly need.
Worst fans in pro sports?
We may be bad, but I think there are Philly fans who are deeply hurt that their hard earned reputation is being ignored here.
On the other issues, I hope that Turk has a lack of faith in JP and thus runs the ball more. Not likely, but we can hope.
Yes...Philly fans are the reigning champions of mean...
Just ask Donovan McNabb. The difference is that mean spirited fans aren’t a minority in Philly, even after the cushy new stadium.
However in Buffalo, the few bad apples are really really bad. I was at one game several years ago, when a overtly drunk idiot stumbled into my brother-in-law near the exit. Despite his best efforts to give this clown a wide berth, the guy insisted that it was my brother-in-law’s fault. With an alcohol bloated face flushed with rage, he tried to start a fight; even in spite of my brother-in-law’s mild disposition and repeated apologies. I stepped in and diffused the situation, but I remember just looking at the beer-induced hate this guy had in him. The worst part is that his pre-teen son was there and got to see the old man in all his glory. I have many more stories, as do most people, but this one stuck with me. I take my kids to the Meadowlands regularly and haven’t seen one incident yet. I like to knock down a few at the game, but would gladly give it up if it meant keeping alcohol out of the hands of those few who shouldn’t drink.
As for hurling things at players…they should have to face the players they affronted…alone and in a dark corridor. The only exception being the guy that dumped a cup of beer on Philly goon Dave Schultz during the 1975 Stanley Cup finals at the Aud. Schultz was a cheap player and deserved it. I remember him hopping over the box and climbing the steep stairs, skates and all, to get this guy. The guy for his part had to be restrained as well. Other than that one incident…throwing things at anyone is bad.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
The fact that only Philly is keeping Bills fans from being regarded as the worst in the league is shameful.
I was at a game and was hit by 3 snowballs, the reason? : I was sitting in front of a guy wearing a Jets jacket. As the drunks got drunker, their aim got worse.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Saw the same thing at a Detroit game...
Two guys were sitting in end zone seats wearing Lions jackets. They looked as though they traveled all the way from Detroit to follow their crappy team only to be pelted incessantly with ice balls. Unfortunately, the drunks hurling them couldn’t hit the side of a stadium and everybody in the vicinity was nailed. The guys weren’t obnoxious…just admirably supporting their team. As someone who typically watches the Bills in enemy territory, I’m a little sensitive to this type of belligerent behavior.
I’ve even been to a Bills-Dolphins playoff game in Miami wearing red, white and blue and treated quite well. Some people can’t see beyond their own team colors to realize that we’re all part of the same football community.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
ok easy
my problem with that ridiculous article is that there are plenty of drunks at these games, myself included, who are neither belligerent, idiotic, cursing or fighting. The article seems to blame the problem on the alcohol which is insane. The problem is individuals not beer.
I have also watched Bills games at the Jets, Redskins, and Patriots and I can tell you that Jets fans are not well put together either, same can be said for the Skins. In fact, the only place where I was able to banter back and forth with the fans and still leave on an understanding basis was New England.
And let’s not forget, you know how you reduce the number of idiots who are pounding beers? You raise the ticket price so people don’t have as much money to spend on booze. I’d rather have our ticket prices stay at the lowest, so you can go with a bunch of friends or with your family and deal with drunks being rude, then pay the amount I had to in Boston, Washington, and New Jersey to sit in peace and quiet
This is football, its part of the experience, and if you don’t want your 8 year old daughter to hear bad language then don’t bring her to an arena where men watch enormous men beat the living heck out of each other!
I detest the generalization that those who drink at the Ralph are all indecent folks. Its simply not true
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
I pretty much agree
This is football, its part of the experience, and if you don’t want your 8 year old daughter to hear bad language then don’t bring her to an arena where men watch enormous men beat the living heck out of each other!
I see both sides of it, but at the same time, parents really have to understand what they are getting into at games like these. I would hope there is no surprise when it does happen.
The problem I would have with the fans is when it gets physical or they start throwing things. That’s just immature, rude and disgusting. Keep it verbal all you want, but when you start doing things that can hurt people, it really crosses the line. I hate that crap.
~K
The problem is certain individuals with alcohol...
The vast majority of fans at the Ralph are courteous, informed and fun to watch a game with, be they drunk or sober. There are a few people that turn belligerent when they drink…to the point of being physical or extraordinary abusive in their language (i.e. 40-50 expletives in a row) . This seriously damages the game time expereince for many fans who are, through no fault of their own, are in close proximity to said idiots. Yes, this is no choir practice, and parents have to consider the environment when taking the kids; however a game is not an excuse to throw all laws and social norms out the window.
Although alcohol isn’t the cause per se, it does exacerbate the problem. I can’t believe that I have to write this, since I’m the one that routinely sneaks beer or liquor into movie theaters. (I have some techniques I use keep the beer cold, and efficiently package the rum or cognac.)
It’s up to stadium security to severely clamp down on this type of behavior. This is part of RG’s stated strategy as well, so get used to it.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
I think
the stadium should employ a system of recording who these belligerent folks are. Too many repeat performances and you’re outta there and ain’t coming back in for two years or something. Problem solved.
Of course, I don’t know if its even possible to do that in a complex with thousands upon thousands of people.
But I agree with Kurupt, I really don’t understand why people feel the need to get violent and throw things. That is so far beyond the line its unacceptable.
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Dec 4, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Dolphins fan here
Been to many games down here at Dolphins Stadium.. two things that we have here that could help with the Ralph are numbers you can text and report unruly fans, so there’s no confrontation, and the situation usually gets resolved by security pretty quickly, and designated family sections that people with young children who don’t wanna be intermingled with the maniacs can sit in. There’s extra security and they discourage the usual stadium antics of drinking, screaming obscenities, and heckling.
Maybe that could help with the problems you guys mentioned in Buffalo..
"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God
by Little Nicky 21 on Dec 4, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
The text-messaging system you posit was actually just installed this year. It’s just that nobody uses it extensively yet.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
wow
never heard of that before but that is definitely a good idea, the family designated seating. How does that work, meaning how do they know they are selling tickets to families?
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Dec 4, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
HIGH-TECH NARC TOOL: The Bills, who earlier this year were excoriated on the pages of the Wall Street Journal for not making it possible for fans to report misbehavior in the seats via text message, have instituted just such a system.
To do so, you address your text message to 78247, then type the word BILLS and a message explaining the location and problem.
I think you are supposed add the seat, section, & row of the problem
There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?
by MonStarr_716 on Dec 4, 2008 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Many of these same people...
probably have a Bill or two on their fantasy roster.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 4, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
One DE
Amazing, but in theory, we only have one DE absolutely available — Denney — if Kelsey’s “personal” reasons are serious. Even with Kelsey, who is the 3rd DE? Don’t say Neil(!). Given the Bills record (and having no DEs), Schobel may very well play. Remember that Johnson is needed as a DT since we only have 3 in that position now (with McCargo on IR). The fact is that we only have 5 certain DL players (even with Kelsey) — don’t we need at least 7 to play?
A) Kelsay will play.
B) Chris Ellis would be the #3 DE, just as he was last weekend.
C) Schobel is practicing (though still a week away), and it’s expected that Copeland Bryan will be back as well.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I thought Ellis has not practiced. Also, by not replacing McCargo, we really are short on DL, since Johnson has to be the 3rd DT. Given the do-or-die game on Sunday, I would think Schobel has to play if it is just a rust/readiness issue.
Johnson was already the 3rd DT, and as we’ve done in the past, we’ve been playing Kelsay and Denney inside.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
That’d be quite crappy for the people of WNY to not only lose the home game, but then have it blacked because some Canadians couldn’t fill their stadium. What a joke that’d be….
~K
Talk about irony!
I would hope the league would step in a lift the restriction. It may not come to that as there are enough deep pockets in Toronto to buy up all the seats if they wanted to.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Would the restriction apply to Rochester and Syracuse?
They would be outside of the required distance.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
if its like normal bills game then rochester would be blacked out and syracuse wouldn’t
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
No
When the Bills get blacked out, Syracuse does also. See here for the “explanation”:
In 1997, CBS gained the rights to the American Football Conference of the NFL. The league determined that portions of Yates County, New York, a fairly narrow county only a few miles wide at certain points, was both within 75 miles of Ralph Wilson Stadium, home of the Buffalo Bills, and in the Syracuse television market (it has bounced between the Syracuse and Rochester markets a couple of times). Therefore, WTVH is forced to black out Bills games if they do not sell out. With WTVH’s control over the Utica market, unless the Bills are hosting an NFC team or the game is a Sunday or Monday night game, the game would be blacked out there as well.
If that place is within 75 miles of the Ralph, why are they not receiving Rochester TV stations instead????
~K
i get both buffalo and rochester…..i live near batavia
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
so when that whole thing with channel 4 was happening and no one could watch the games. i could because i pick up rochester CBS channel 8. didn’t effect me one bit
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Where is “near Batavia”? I hail from East Bethany.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
East Bethany isn’t too far….i hail from Pembroke.
Been through there many times as its only about 20 minutes. i had a golf membership to bethany hills for years….even though its a terrible course
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, yeah, Hills is way too wide open. The wind up there is ridiculous. Haven’t played there in a couple of years.
Did you go to school at Pembroke? When I was a volleyball player in high school (Pavilion), we crushed Pembroke. Playing Pembroke was like the Bills playing the Chiefs. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
LOL – no i went to Attica. We loved playing pembroke too, they were always bad it seems at sports. except it was football and track for me
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Lucky. Pavilion didn’t have a football team, and I’m too sloth-like to play soccer. I was all about volleyball. I like football and hockey and college basketball and all that, but volleyball ranks equally with everything else under football. I love me some volleyball.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 4, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
The whole thing must be just a pretense to black-out the game beyond the 75-mile radius for whatever reason. I don’t understand with all this talk of regionalization, OBD seems to take Central New York for granted. For instance I’d love to see a pre-season game at the Carrier Dome.
That’d be cool….though it’s all about $$. I don’t think the Bills would give up their remaining preseason home game at the Ralph to play one in the Dome. Maybe once the Toronto series is over, or during the years there is no preseason game in Toronto.
I’m not sure how many people would go to a preseason game at the Dome though. I don’t think the Bills presence is as strong in CNY….
~K
Zumone has a point though. If syracuse gets blacked out (its been a long time since i’ve pointed my antenna that way so i’m not 100% on syracuse getting blacked out but i thought it didn’t) because of the bills not selling out then they should do something for that area.
Rochester gets training camp
Toronto gets 2 games a year
why should CNY get stiffed? makes sense to furthur regionalize the team. they may consider that part of rochesters region and maybe thats why nothing has happened at the dome
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody who used to work for the Bills organization, lets just call him TD, had this to say a few years back: “Several years ago we looked into the possibility of playing a preseason game in the Carrier Dome in Syracuse. We would be in favor of a game of this nature. It did not work out initially, but we have not given up on that possibility. Our thinking was that the Giants or possibility the Eagles, with a Donavan McNabb, or the Colts with a Marvin Harrison, would be a very attractive draw in the Syracuse area. We have a lot of great Bills fans in that area and it would be fun to play a game at the Dome. So even though it hasn’t worked out, don’t rule it out in the future.”
CNY is very much a Bills territory
There are also a large number of Giants fans in CNY due to their training camp in Albany, but the vast majority are two team NFL fans. I have many friends from the Utica-Rome area who are either Giants fans first, then Bills fans, or vice a versa. At a minimum, many of the fans for both teams will keep track of the other team for a very simple reason. They are NY franchises (cough cough NJ Giants). I do know a couple of Jets fans, but not very many at ALL.
Don’t discount CNY as Bills fans Western NYers. The CNY area fills at least 2-5 bus loads every Bills home game to send to the stadium to watch in person. We are there, we spend our money, and we watch with the same mixture of pride, shame, and anger every given Sunday.
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
My bad. You’re right about Syracuse as far as the Toronto game, at least according to that wiki article: “Games at the Rogers Centre would not be subject to blackout in Syracuse, as no part of the market is within 75 miles of Toronto, Ontario.”
i know….i use to point my antenna to syracuse when it was locally blacked out and watch the game that way
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
no….its considered part of the bills region…..will always be blacked out if the game is
by J2 on Dec 4, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
More bad injury news....
Lynch hurt his back at practice today….
Doesn’t sound all that serious, but really, it figures he would get hurt when we’ve been clamoring for him to get more work….
~K

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