Quick Hits on State of Franchise
I like how on the countdown to kickoff brian you have "until toronto steals a home game from us" Just caught that....good stuff
I've heard so many bad things this week regarding the Bills its really disturbing:
1) John Clayton stated what I believe to be true on wgr last night, that Trent Edwards is hurt, is questionable but the Bills have already decided JP will start cuz it might be beneficial for Edwards to sit being how bad he has been. Clayton also said if Losman wins Sunday, expect him to start next week against the NYJ as DJ is coaching for his job. he says he would play Edwards if healthy, and if the Bills don't its harmful to his confidence
2) Thurman Thomas also said on wgr that "until the owner is gone things won't change." How does that make us feel?
3) No one is happy with the Bills game in Toronto. This is shaping up bad. Jim kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bills players and coaches, I think they all feel terrible about having to go up there to play. Mark my words, when you let distractions like this get to you, you never win these games cuz they're more worried about bitchn about playing in Toronto than beating the phins
4) What the heck is with DJ's contract? Does he have one or not? What a weird situation. I think it speaks to the dysfunction of Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon running this franchse. I love Ralph and all he has done. But undoubtedly, he needs to go to let this team win
5) Does anyone really think Jim Kelly & his investors can get $800-$1billion together to buy the team when Ralph passes and who knows if the NFL will even let them? And how can a town like Buffalo, which will have to build a new stadium to keep up with the Jones', fund a $800-$1 billion dollar new stadium????
I'm depressed. The present of the 2008 Bills is dismal, the future of the franchise is in deep doubt, no one knows the status of Dick Jauron. Ralph is so attached to the team, I don't think he knows how to be able to let go and hire the right people to provide a winner. I'm an optimistic guy....I guess all we know for sure is the bills are in Buffalo through 2012 and after that who knows....
Any thoughts, comments, or anger like I feel this Friday morning before our team heads to Toronto to play the fish?
This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.
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5) Does anyone really think Jim Kelly & his investors can get $800-$1billion together to buy the team when Ralph passes and who knows if the NFL will even let them?
It will probably be more than the net worth of the franchise since it goes to the highest bidder. Economies of scale make this tough for the Buffalo region.
meh……
by J2 on Dec 5, 2008 10:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
One Possibility
Over the past few days I too have been thinking about that. I’ve also been hearing a lot about how many people want the NFL to allow the city to buy the Bills. I wonder if it would be at all possible to put those two ideas together. If Kelly and his investors can put up a large sum, why not allow the public to contribute to that fund? Think of it as if we were backing someone running for public office. All the time people donate money to individuals running for Mayor, Sheriff, Senator, ect…why not allow the public to donate money to Jim Kelly and have him represent out cause. I understand this is a little out there, but I am just wondering what others think. Also, if I sound a little unclear let me know, and I can clear it up.
by BuffaloBrewed on Dec 5, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wilson can’t sell the team whoever he wants?
by buffaloboy90 on Dec 5, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He can
I am just saying that if there was a way Bills fans could donate money to Kelly to help him keep the Bills in Buffalo I would be all for it. I don’t really think it could ever happen, but it would end up being like a charity to keep the Bills. Which now that I just said that is very depressing.
by BuffaloBrewed on Dec 5, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Charles Schumer has already put together an appeal to the commish for a partial public ownership
The idea would be to sell 51% of the team to a single ownership group who would then put Jim in as the “Owner” but really just the Public face of the franchise. The other 49% would be sold to the fans who could purchase stock in the team. There would be then a clause written into the contract for the sale that 60-70% of all people would need to agree to move the team before it could leave. Meaning, they would need to convince about 9-19% of the fan base to sign off on that. Wouldn’t happen.
But, then the NFL would probably see a new stadium built in Buffalo since most of us crazy fans would pay for a new one IF we owned the team. We’ll see if RG agrees with Chuck and Jim.
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
by WABillsfan on Dec 5, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even under that scenario, Jim Kelly wouldn’t be the owner of the Bills. The NFL requires that one single majority owner has to pay for 30% of the team and that person is then essentially the sole owner of the team from a responsiblity(s) standpoint.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thoughts and comments, no anger here
Clayton also said if Losman wins Sunday, expect him to start next week against the NYJ as DJ is coaching for his job
I don’t think that DJ is coaching for his job ….. yet. I think DJ will do as well as Trent does in Buffalo. I think Jauron and his young QB have one more year to show progress and I will very surprised if Trent doesn’t play against NY. It isn’t that Trent is trying to work through some minor injury, he hasn’t even practiced yet this week. It’s not like Trent has been limited, he hasn’t thrown a ball all week.
they’re more worried about bitchn about playing in Toronto than beating the phins
Granted, I pay very little to what is being said by the players and coaches, but I havn’t heard one player or coach say that they don’t want to play in Toronto, think that the Toronto series is some bad thing, or anything similiar.
What the heck is with DJ’s contract? Does he have one or not?
I heard Paul Hamilton say that the new contract for DJ is a done deal. I think the Bills aren’t releasing any new info because of how bad the team has been. I jut think they are trying to avoid the blowback from the fans.
Does anyone really think Jim Kelly & his investors can get $800-$1billion together to buy the team
The problem is that the NFL requires a majority owner to have 30% of the team. So the real question should be: Can Kelly find someone with 300 mil to invest in the team? He can find a few mil here and there and raise that kind of money, but the NFL requires that somebody step up and put in a pretty substantial precentage. Even if Kelly’s group buys the team, Kelly won’t be the hero or the new owner or even all that involved (unless the new owner puts him on the payroll) with the organization. We will eventually have a new owner and he will be the face of the franchise, it won’t be a group of people owning the team.
by kaisertown on Dec 5, 2008 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He might actually have that kind of cash. Jeremy Jacobs (the Delaware North guy) is probably our best bet right now.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to depress me Marv
You’re pretty much spot on regarding the money issue and selling the franchise. Really, I can’t see how Jimbo has anyone close to having that kind of money, even the 30% for majority ownership. Maybe he does, but it just seems unlikely to me. Plus, even if he does have some investors lined up willing to fork over the $750-900M, don’t you think it could get ugly having so many “owners” down the road? Even that would have an ominous cloud lurking….
I’m actually not that concerned about a stadium….yet. The Ralph sure seems to be in pretty good shape and there have been numerous upgrades and renovations over the years. Sure, it’s not some luxury, state of the art, suite filled cash cow, but it’s a good stadium that fits the region and fans. I think it can survive another 15-20 years, maybe longer, without a problem assuming renovations occur when necessary….
2) Thurman Thomas also said on wgr that “until the owner is gone things won’t change.” How does that make us feel?
That is 10000000% true. Ralph hurts this franchise more than he helps it at this point, at least personnel, coaching and football-wise. And that is exactly our double edged sword….Yeah, we all see and keep hearing about how the franchise won’t become that consistent winner again until Ralph sells it or passes on, but when that happens, we just might not have a franchise anymore. I hate this.
This whole Jauron fiasco is such a joke. Just announce he signed it already. We all know that Ralph won’t fire him anyways.
I don’t believe anything Clayton ever says, but if that is true, then it’s yet another head scratcher. If Jauron is playing for his job by starting lame duck Losman next week, then it’s the absolute last straw for me. This team is going nowhere this year and why in the world would you not allow your young QB to get more time on the field?? Assuming Trent is healthy, he MUST start.
If somehow Jauron did get fired, we’d may also be looking for a new QB….again. I don’t know how many new coaches would want to stick with Trent Edwards…..
~K
by Kurupt on Dec 5, 2008 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ralph Wilson is the AL DAVIS of the east.....
and vice versa……
bleh
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 5, 2008 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are both old. After that the comparison end IMHO. The crypt keeper (Davis) spends money stupidly. and makes dumb trades (DeAngelo Hall). Davis seems to think that he is a great football mind, which he might have been at one point, but not any more. Ralph always seems to defer to the football guys that he hires.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Dec 6, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the Fords would be a better comparison to Wilson.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
When Ralph had John Butler running the show, he was great. When Butler left and Ralph hired TD, things went down hill and Ralph’s competance was questioned. When he brought Marv back and things started to turn around, he was great again. Now with ??? running the show, Ralph is compared to Al Davis.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Dec 6, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don’t you think it could get ugly having so many "owners" down the road?
Thats not how it works. The NFL requires there be one and only one majority owner who runs the team. Everybody else would essentially be a stockholder who shares in the profits, but don’t really get the chance to make decisions.
I think it can survive another 15-20 years, maybe longer,
For this team to financially compete with your average NFL franchise, they really need a new stadium (and/or fanbase), but I agree that the organization could survive with the current stadium for another 20+ years. A stadium only becomes an issue when a new owner either wants one here or wants to move the team somewhere else to get one.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re
I bring all this up just because I think some people brush it to the side when these are critical issues right now facing the long-term future of this franchise in Buffalo. Sure, Goodel is from Jamestown, NY, but money speaks louder than where your from and Goodel will go along with whatever is financially viable for this franchise, whether that means moving to Toronto, LA or staying in Buffalo. The guy on WGR says he pays $360 for his season tickets….a single ticket in NE is $121. You can’t compete without a new stadium, luxury boxes, seat licenses, etc, unless the new owner is so committed to staying in Buffalo he finds creative ways to stay competitive. LIke they said, Ralph doesn’t owe a dime of debt and everything is pure profit. The new owner would be $700? millions of dollars on day 1. How do you make up that money??? Not by charging $55 a ticket. Sure $78 million from Toronto is nice, but that’s not even one year of players salary.
II don’t want to specualte too much on if Losman plays well Sunday, but I just think it puts DJ in an interesting position. Clayton also said maybe Ralph and DJ have a “verbal” committment and nothing in writing….Either way, no franchise in the world does this and doesn’t announce a contract extension. They told us about Lee Evans. Why not Dick jauron? All I have to say, is this off-season will be very interesting indeed
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Dec 5, 2008 2:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You’re right about Goodell. It’s not about whether or not he cares or wants the team in Buffalo or anything like that. Once there is a new owner, he can do whatever he wants with his team. Goodell simply doesn’t have the authority to keep the team in Buffalo.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i always wondered...
if Ralph’s daughter would reconsider if he happened to pass away in 2010 and there was no estate tax to worry about. That would be a pretty darn big gift to her!
John I.
by jri111 on Dec 5, 2008 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think it was his daughter that had the issue. I thought it was Ralph himself.
by thefourwinds on Dec 5, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he said he doesn’t want his family to inherit the financial burden or the stress the ownership brings.
by pozzed51 on Dec 5, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is hysterical
How many of us wouldn’t WANT to have a pro sports franchise that makes 30+ million a year in PROFIT. Thats the current estimated profit ALL teams make before you factor in tickets. Of course, staff costs come out of the non-TV revenue, but still, thats a chunk of change when you sell out the stadium most games.
Do you think the Browns wouldn’t be cheaper if they could? If the NFL didn’t have a floor on the cap (which they didn’t have for years) like they do now, the Bungals would be even worse, but since your now forced to pay up to 80% of cap space available, they actually field a less crappy team now, but only by default. Besides, the vast majority of the money given to players is actually from the TV contract, which is a huge chunk o’ change every year. Yeah, I want the BURDEN of owning a profootball franchise since its all paid for. Besides, with the tax she would get hit with to pay off the turnover to her would be gone in 3-5 seasons anyhow.
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
by WABillsfan on Dec 5, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Browns, whoa, got that wrong, Lerner is a spendthrift
I meant to say the following:
“Do you think the Browns who own the Bengals wouldn’t be cheaper if they could?”
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
by WABillsfan on Dec 6, 2008 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of other costs beyond staff though. Insurance is a huge one. The taxes involved in owning a team and so much money getting thrown around have ot be pretty high. I’m pretty confident this team is WAY in the red before ticket and concession sales. That said, the Bills do make money and it is crazy to think someone wouldn’t want to own a pro sports team.
by kaisertown on Dec 6, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those death taxes are really expensive though. My father just expanded his business by purchasing a (fairly profitable) company who’s owner died and they were unable to pay the death tax. However, if he survives until 2010, he should restructure his will to give it to a family member. I believe this has been discussed at length both on this site and in other places.
Also, I was listening to the radio here in StL and they were discussing the whole ownership situation here in St. Louis and Buffalo’s also came up. They said that the NFL will never allow public ownership of the team again for a bunch of BS reasons, mainly greed and image of the league. But the support for fan ownership by all of my friends and everyone I have ever seen write on the issue is overwhelming. Especially when a friend came to visit last weekend and I took him to the Ralph (almost typed in Rich Stadium there…). He’s from Minnesota, has been to Packers games, and said that he came away very impressed with our fans and the stadium atmosphere. For the last week we have had 3 conversations about it. Too bad we can’t do that though. The rush to purchase shares would be ridiculous. An IPO of a NFL franchise? This might make me sound dorky, but I think that would be one of the most interesting things to follow…
by pozzed51 on Dec 6, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
View from Miami.
Even as a Dolphin fan I feel absolutely horrible for the good fans of Buffalo. While I may absolutely HATE New England and New York fans, I’ve always kind of admired the Bills faithful. Here’s a franchise with a rich history and a devoted following in a cool city, yet with things falling apart from the inside out, the team can’t seem to catch a break. I, for one, feel for you. My best friend growing up was a Bills fan, and we got to watch some great rivalry games together.
Obviously, when our teams kickoff this weekend my allegiances will lie solely with my Dolphins (I know any self-respecting Bills will do the same), but I remain empathetic to the fine people of Bills Nation in off the field issues regardless. A professional sports franchise is a special thing, and something I know I would fight for if posed with your precarious situation. So, fight the good fight, Buffalo! And may our teams emerge injury free this weekend!
"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt
by Daniel52 on Dec 5, 2008 10:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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