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Dick Jauron's status: a mixed bag

After starting off the 2008 season with a 4-0 record, the Buffalo Bills have subsequently gone 2-7 to eliminate themselves from playoff consideration for a ninth consecutive season.  As a result, head coach Dick Jauron is the Buffalo community and media's favorite whipping boy these days - and that's hardly a surprise.  I've defended him ad nauseam here - not because I think he's a great coach, but because some of the arguments made against Jauron are borderline ridiculous.  Those arguments continue.

Bills owner Ralph Wilson told Buffalo News columnist Jerry Sullivan that he "didn't know" if Jauron would be his head coach next season; the owner did, however, call out the players, claiming "we haven't got the talent" - which sounds an awful lot like an endorsement for his embattled head coach.  In short: it's a mess.  Welcome to the past decade of Buffalo Bills football.

I'm done defending the man.  Not because he "shows no emotion" or defers on kickoffs or because of the way he handles the media; those arguments are stupid, and are the immature rantings of folks who want to have it their way.  I'm done defending the man because he's a fine, upstanding individual, clearly still has the support of his players, and he doesn't need me to.  Also, I'm sick of watching the crap the Bills put on the field every week.

The Coaching List
I aim to please here, and I realize that this is what everybody wants to talk about.  Who wants to talk about the Buffalo Bills?  Not this guy.  Instead, I wanted to talk about possible available coaches this off-season, whether the Bills end up needing one or not.  Hey, if we're going to complain, we can at least make it a constructive piece, right?  Let's accomplish something today, folks, rather than continue our weeks-long whine-fest.

Here are, with brief thoughts on how each relates to Buffalo, my top sixteen coaching prospects heading into the 2009 off-season:

Bill Cowher, CBS Analyst: Can you say "pipe dream"?  Not only has Cowher not displayed any real interest in returning to the coaching ranks, but the chances of him choosing to come to work for a 90-year-old owner are remote.  Get this one out of your head fast, folks - it ain't happening.

Marty Schottenheimer, grandfather: Apparently, he wants back in, and he's already been linked to the Cleveland Browns.  He's got ties to the organization, but the chances still seem remote.  Maybe that's just a result of the pessimism.

Steve Spagnuolo, Defensive Coordinator, NY Giants: "Spags" is the top assistant available, and he'll likely have his pick of a half-dozen jobs this off-season.  When was the last time the Bills landed a "hot commodity" of a coaching candidate?  That would be never.  Again, remote chances.

Josh McDaniels, Offensive Coordinator, Patriots: See Spagnuolo, Steve.  Next.

Jim Schwartz, Defensive Coordinator, Titans: He's been on the cusp of a head gig for a couple of years now.  He'll definitely be a head man in 2009.  I know, Buffalo's tried the whole "hand the reigns of the franchise to a Titans defensive coordinator" thing before, but Schwartz is better than Gregg Williams.  Still, add his name to the pile of "remote chances" candidates.

Rex Ryan, Asst. HC/Defensive Coordinator, Ravens: It's pretty amazing that he's still a coordinator, because he's done nothing but pump out awesome defenses for the past half-decade.  Again, a near-lock to be a head coach soon, but we're now entering the territory where these coaches might consider working in Buffalo.

Ten more names after the jump...

Star-divide

Raheem Morris, Defensive Backs, Buccaneers: Took over for Mike Tomlin in his current position when Tomlin left to coordinate the Vikings' defense; now, Morris is considered the next Mike Tomlin.  Weird.  He's currently slated to take over as defensive coordinator in Tampa when Monte Kiffin joins Lane in Tennessee, but some smart owner is going to give this kid a shot.  I love Mike Tomlin, and because of that love, I'm 90% sure I'd love Raheem Morris.

Mike Tice, Asst. HC/Tight Ends, Jaguars: Illegal ticket scalping aside, I always thought Tice got a raw deal in Minnesota (zing!). He's got experience - something our franchise valued the last time we were looking for a new coach - and he employs the right attitude on the field.  I actually think he'll end up a head coach again sometime in the near future.

Russ Grimm, Asst. HC/Offensive Line, Cardinals: Wasn't this guy supposed to be a head coach by now?  There was a two-year stretch when he was linked to every job opening out there, especially Pittsburgh's, and now he's barely mentioned.  The dude turned Mike Gandy into a competent left tackle; anyone who can pull that off is worth a look as a head coach.

Ron Rivera, Defensive Coordinator, Chargers: Another former hot commodity that's fallen by the wayside a bit.  He's familiar with our defense, but he ran it much better than we do in Chicago.  An interesting candidate, to be sure.

Ron Meeks, Defensive Coordinator, Colts: He keeps Indy's (Tampa 2) defense competent despite the fact that his best players are as frail as our owner.  He also quite clearly understands the value of a good defensive end.  I like him.

Todd Bowles, Asst. HC/Secondary, Dolphins: He'll be a head coach someday, if only because he's held in high regard by one Bill Parcells.

Kyle Shanahan, Offensive Coordinator, Texans: One word - "bloodlines".  That and the fact that he makes Sage Rosenfels look like a competent quarterback makes him intriguing.

Jim Haslett, Interim Head Coach, Rams: Well, he's got a connection to Buffalo.  Otherwise, blech - he didn't even get an interview when we hired Jauron.  Highly unlikely.

Todd Haley, Offensive Coordinator, Cardinals: See "Bowles, Todd".  He's done some pretty good things in Arizona this season with that offense, but then again, he also had a lot to work with.  Kind of an unproven guy with some upside in my book, and he'll definitely get interviews this off-season.

Bobby April, Asst. HC/Special Teams Coordinator, Bills: He seems wildly popular in these parts, and I can't really understand why.  Do I think he could be a head coach?  Maybe.  Do I think he'd be good?  Probably not.  Will he get interviews elsewhere?  Unlikely.  But if there's one guy who could earn a promotion here, he's the man.

***

Again, this piece isn't meant to be an endorsement or an attack on a current head coach.  I'm pretty ambivalent about the current state of the franchise; there are arguments to make both for keeping and firing Dick Jauron.  View this post, at least as it pertains to my public opinion, as an "If Jauron is fired, but I don't think he will be" piece.

Feel free to add or subtract names as you see fit.

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Little feisty today, huh Brian? :)

I agree that the whole shows no emotion, defers and how he handles the media are dumb reasons to want a guy fired. I want a new coach because Jauron simply can’t cut it as a HC, something that’s been apparent for well over the last year. I’m not sure who out there can handle being HC of the Bills, but I know it’s not Jauron.

I thought Marty would never coach again?

Totally agree about April. I don’t understand why so many seem to think he’s HC material and deserves to be promoted. Because he yells on the sidelines? He’s been a long time ST coordinator for a reason, fellas. Good coach, but he’s no HC….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

APril

No, not a HC…but you have to keep him here if we get a new coach. ST’s is the one thing we have. Another issue is that since DJ has been making so many personnel decisions, the new HC would have to take on those duties as well or we need a GASP, GM!

And if we bring in a defensive coach, we might run into the same problem again if he doesn’t bring in a good OC. So I think its the total package. To me its

option #1) keep Jauron, fire Schonert, get a new OC

option #2) fire jauron, keep April, bring in entire new staff, keep Edwards

My gut says Ralph will fire Jauron…what scares me though is who he’ll hire

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha, I don’t know about feisty. I, like the Bills, don’t have a lot of “feist” in me. I’ll stick with indifferent.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The Bills have no feist, fire, intensity, buzzword, buzzword, buzzword in them. We’ve seen that much over the past month.

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and on Marty – I’m floored that he wants back in. I still have my doubts about whether he’ll coach again, but was pretty shocked to see his name surface already.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

we need to tear this whole thing down

From the Gm to the bench warmers, we need to clean house. This team plays with no passion and that is a serious problem for everyone involved in management.
I’m so sick of rooting for this team and they go and let you down by just totally not showing up the last 2 weeks.

I agree we need to find an adequate coaching replacement and I really don’t know who that is.
I say offer cowher a blank check and go from there. This dispicable play has to be ended immediately, it can not be accepted.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by kdog on Dec 8, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

Idk about getting a new GM. It seems like the Bills are drafting and bringing in talented player. I think it’s the offensive coaching that has been bad.

by buffaloboy90 on Dec 8, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Not accoriding to Ralph apparently.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 8, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t agree with Ralph. So that doesn’t change my opinion. Look at the guys we have brought in Dick and Modrak at the helm. Marshawn Lynch, Trent Edwards, Paul Poslusnzy, Kyle Williams, Marcus Stroud, Kawika Mitchell, Dockery, Walker, Butler, Whitner, Bryan Scott, Leodis Mckelvin. Sure they have brought in some mediocre players like Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston, but overall they seem to be making good decisions.

What has killed the Bills have been 1st round picks like JP Losman and John McCargo and Mike Williams.

by buffaloboy90 on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

note that different gms brought those players in. Tom Donohoe or w/e his name is.

by buffaloboy90 on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

NO Mike Tice

He totally lost control of the Vikes. I think Spagnuolo is a possibility, espicially if the Giants are in the Super Bowl. Every year, teams panic and are not willing to wait for the season to be over before filling the HC position. He could be available come Feb.

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

and

let the speculation begin. I swear for the last 10 years the only fun thing about being a Bills fan is “who will we draft, who will we sign in FA, and who is the next head coach”

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions  

it’s amazing that this has been selling tickets and merchandise…shows how hard up we are.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Thorough list Brian, but the problems run deeper...

I’ve been guilty of being a Jawrong basher these past few weeks…but I’m over it and glad you have us focused on the future (the present is painful in so many ways). The problem with picking from this menu is the guys doing the picking. This is where the wood is rotten. You need a real football guy running things, not an ancient owner and a marketing guru. Look at the Giants organization, or even Miami. Donahoe was a mistake, but ceding operations over to a football guy was/is the right thing. After Donahoe departed, Ralph was quoted as saying that he was negligent in ceding someone else so much power to run the team. He went on to say that he’s “never let that happen again”. This statement disturbed me quite a bit as Wilson should not be making any football related decisions at that stage of his life. This is even truer three years later. I agree with the many posters (too many to name) who argue that the organization is dysfunctional.

So either little substantial change is made (highest likelihood) and we get lucky with someone on the lower part of your list or Wilson “retires” (unlikely unless you’re counting death as form of retirement) and brings in a real football guy in the mold of a Polian or Butler. How’s this for an idea…hire Cowher or Shottenheimer as GM or team president? Then you could rely on their wisdom to hire the right coaching staff.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

Whatever coach we hire is going to have to have a strong personality or some clout, because we don’t have a GM – and that’s not likely to change. If Jauron is fired – that’s still a big step that I’d say has more than a 50% chance of not coming to fruition – the new coach is going to have to hold that front office together, as Jauron is currently doing.

The argument you’ve just made is exactly why I’ve been on the “don’t fire Jauron” bandwagon for months. This franchise is seconds away from exploding and becoming the Detroit Lions. Jauron’s keeping us mediocre; I’m not sure how much better we can get.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you rather be the Detroit Lions for a couple of years with the possibility of moving forward or the Houston Texans forever? Actually, Detroit made a colossal mistake in hiring the unqualified Millen.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather be the Houston Texans for a couple of years with the possibility of moving forward. Is that an option?

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but if we’re in Fantasyland, I’d pick the NY Giants and move forward from there. No Brian, it’s Houston forever. Unfortunately, sometimes you need to take a step back before you can go forward. The good news is that the Bills are a young team with plenty of players to keep so the hiccup would only last a season or so.

Regarding Detroit, they also too way too long in firing Millen, who made a career out of scapegoating head coaches. At least this organization had the good sense to pull the plug on Donahoe after a few years. And I also hate to break it to you…but the Bills are Detroit. Only the luck of the schedule is preventing them from posting a 2-11 record at this point in the season.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Detroit is 0-13.

I get that the team is going downhill, but we aren’t close to being as dysfunctional as that franchise. I think you’re being a little too negative there.

That said, we suck.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

True…after the past two defeats we only feel like Detroit. We’re more like the Rams or Seattle…teams that have some hope of turning it around in our lifetimes.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

deep breathe everything will b ok bills nation

if u say that were the lions and mean that jp is a future detriot lions player then i agree with you. but to say that we r the lions then no i def disagree. for one POZ is the man. period. second i dont think our team is that bad we just have a lot of young guys playing together with terrible coaches. Im sry but why would they be passing so much with jp in when we have marshawn lynch? thats just crazy. third i think that we been drafting real well so im not really sure why people are down on the way ralph has been running the team (minus coaching). Poz, whitner, leodis, kyle williams, youboty have been solid picks. We need some offense our d hasnt been playing terrible. i mean how many points have teams been putting up on us? minus the cardinals game i think the d has kept the game close. the difference between the first half of the season and the second half has been our offense. people forget that trent is a second year qb from standford (not USC or Penn State or any top 20 college program). he didnt play like one when we were 5-1 but its caught up with him. and guess what its ok. eli manning didnt play well his first season or his second or his third but now hes a stud. guess what bills nation it takes time for a qb to become good. jim kelly only came out being a stud right away cause he had a few years in another professional football program. its asinine that the coachs put so much pressure on trent when they have one of the best backs in the league who has proved that he is a work horse. the bills will be a great team in the coming years. and u kno i say this every year but i truely believe edwards is the answer and the qb has been the biggest mystery piece in buffalo since jim kelly

by billsstein on Dec 8, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Seattle will take a little more than some ducktape and bailing twine

Hasselbeck might be done in another season. His back is starting to go and all the spin the world won’t make up for that. The Oline is getting older and is trying to rely on FAs to keep it together, it won’t soon. Walter retires in the next 2 years, max. Wallace is not the heir apparent to Matty H either, I think Mora will be looking hard for a kid in this draft.

We have youngsters in place, but no one will come in here to replace DJ as long as Raplhie is here. Not because of money, not because of power (or lack thereof) or even team dysfunctionality. Its very very simple, when Ralph dies and the team is sold, what is the FIRST thing a new owner looks to do? Put his stamp on the team, meaning he brings in ALL of his type of guy in to take control, meaning the old coach, staff, and alot of FO personel get the old heave ho.

What HC in his right mind steps into that situation with an owner close to the grave? NO ONE. DJ is hanging around I think because he respected Levy, and I think he knows that if Ralph dies in the next 2 seasons, DJ can make alot of money, and hell of a name for himself as a guy who kept things sane during a fall by a once proud franchise. Lastly, by giving so many guys a chance on his staff as well, if any of them do good, they OWE him, meaning he won’t be without a job.

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Dec 11, 2008 3:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not be the Dolphins

And have an incredibly turn around in one year?

I mean, apart from the fact that we wouldn’t want to be the Dolphins.

by Frank L on Dec 8, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure that “exploding” is a bad thing anymore. I’m afraid if Jauron stays and we start slow next year we’ll have a majority of a season to second guess the retention of a bad coach. To me it seemed like players were going through the motions yesterday, which is a sign that the coach may have lost the ear of some of the players.

by gatornation on Dec 8, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Very sad
Jauron’s keeping us mediocre; I’m not sure how much better we can get.

If 8-8 is the best we can hope for, it is time to move on. R.I.P. Bills

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

so true

No man Ralph Wilson’s age should be running a company (which a football team is) and making important decisions about what happens with the company. Until he is out of the picture I am starting to feel like we will be doomed. And then the problem with him dying comes the prospect of losing the team. Pretty much a double edged sword here.

by BenAllen on Dec 8, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

that's

the reality….and it depresses me…..it’s easier to have a 2-14 season than a 11-5 season with this franchise

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

it’s easier to have a 2-14 season than a 11-5 season with this franchise

Well, I think that’s true of any franchise…

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe i meant

we’re closer to 2-11 than 11-5……

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

YES!!!!

The only difference between the Bills and the other 2-11 teams is that the Bills offence is more excruciating to watch!

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, this thread hasn’t exploded like I expected it to… apparently you guys don’t want to talk about this. I guess I’ll never understand my fellow Bills fans… :)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

I think

the correct term at this point is numb. I am at a point now where I expect the results that we are getting and I don’t get upset anymore.

by gatornation on Dec 8, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry...

for not living up to expectations… Unfortunately real life (and work) calls so I need to depart for a while. However, I do like your coaching list and you have identified many candidates that I believe would do a much better job as Bills HC than Jauwrong, but it may be a tad premature. I’d like to see the organizations response to the recent slide and if there are any changes at One Bills drive as the final weeks of this condemned season plays out. Doesn’t hurt to look ahead though. Again, thanks Brian.

"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban

by NJBill on Dec 8, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL – dude, this is your seventh comment in this thread. You’re doing fine. :)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

no signs of progress

That’s the biggest problem. Like you said, it would feel better to be a Houston Texans fan right now. Because, at least there is hope for the future.

The Bills appeared to be a better team this year, and then we have regressed. That is a very BAD sign. I’m sorry, but no coach (no matter how nice they seem) deserves to remain a coach if you show no signs of improvement after three years. And especially if you get worse.

We shouldn’t get our hopes up here though. Every time we start looking for coaches, we seem to be let down. We hired Jauron, which not many were a fan of from the start. And then when we look for coordinators, we promote inexperienced guys from within. Not sure we can expect much from Ralph right now.

by bruuuuce_02 on Dec 8, 2008 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

I think the first five games of the season were a glimpse at the potential of the team

I don’t know if blowing it all up and starting again is warranted. They can play lights out. THey can also play lights on nobody home.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Those five games you reference, we were 4-1. We lost to the NFC West champs, which I guess is fine.

Since the 4-0 start, 8 teams have been as bad or worse than Buffalo: Detroit, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Seattle, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Oakland and our Bills. All are 2-7 or worse since Week 5. We’re 5-0 against those teams.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha. Unequivocally.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

oooo Brian….so would you say “paper thin” victories? :)

by J2 on Dec 8, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL – Brian doesn’t like my “paper thin” victories usage to describe our wins that we have to date. well at the time at least………

because now we know…..and it sucks

by J2 on Dec 8, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

A win’s a win in my book – the Bills can’t help who they played. That’s the only argument I ever made against your “paper thin” point.

This comment here was just me throwing out numbers. Ugly, ugly numbers…

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I would love to see the Bills with 13, 1 point wins this year.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 8, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

To further that, I’d love to see the Bills with 13 1-point wins against the Chiefs, Lions, Bengals, etc. etc. etc…

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Or the Browns, 49ers, etc.

by thatguy34 on Dec 8, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL – as long as they play consistently well in those 1 point wins i’d be all for them

by J2 on Dec 8, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Rex Ryan, Raheem Morris, or Ron Meeks

I Agree that we are not that far off from the playoffs. We have many talented players and a few black holes. I don’t know what kind of defense Rex Ryan runs, so guessing there. We do not need to gut this team and start over. Morris or Meeks would not gut our defense, just get the most out of it. Morris or Meeks would use our current scheme to better effect. If we played our secondary closer to the line, we would shut down much of our 3rd down woes.

Obviously, our offense needs the most help. If DJ stays, we need a proven OC. If DJ goes, here’s hoping that the next HC is like Tomlin and others who defer the coaching of the other half to an assistant HC for either offense or defense.

everything goes better with bacon

by Enigma3 on Dec 8, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

Ryan runs one of the best 3-4’s in the league….always has

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

rex ryan

i thought rex ryan ran the 46 defense, his dad invented it didnt he?

by big john on Dec 8, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't have NFL ticket so I don't get to see many other teams play

But if I did, I’d try to watch Indy or Tampa to see how they play our chosen defensive scheme differently. Do they play their secondary as far back as we do? In the Tampa 2 scheme, just where are the DB’s supposed to play?

everything goes better with bacon

by Enigma3 on Dec 8, 2008 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

Their corners aren’t terribly different. They’re more aggressive by nature, though, and more physical. Buffalo’s corners aren’t physical at all, like Marlin Jackson or Ronde Barber are.

What sets those defenses apart are Gaines Adams/Greg White, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they are also speedier across the board. But the pass rush is by far the biggest difference. It’s something I am still shocked hasn’t been addressed in the 3 years we’ve been running this soft version of those defenses….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

the owner did, however, call out the players, claiming “we haven’t got the talent” – which sounds an awful lot like an endorsement for his embattled head coach.

He also said that, “The coaches can’t tackle. The coaches can’t kick (although yesterday they were fine kicking, Ralph).” Which again seems like he doesn’t mind the coaching but the execution. Not agreeing with him just telling you he said it in an interview with Channel 8 in Rochester.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Ralph has clouded vision

This team has plenty of talent on it. The only difference in talent between an 11-5 team and a 7-9 team is the coaches. When Marshawn Lynch can only gain 31 yards, I don’t think its because he’s not showing up. And when the defense holds a team to 10 or 16 points in a game, they’re tackling just fine.

If Ralph thinks that more talent will fix this problem, we’ll never get out of this mess.

by south123 on Dec 8, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe i'm completely way off base here, but...

I’m of the opinion the teams needs a HC with some prowress with the offensive side of the ball. Every time a D-based guy comes in, there’s such a lack of explosion on the O’s side of the ball. Though i’d give anything to see Cowher come to town. Won’t happen – I know it.

The team’s biggest concerns lie on offense, that should be their focal point once they get a pass rusher. With that, comes a coach who can develop where needed.

I don’t think Edwards deserves to be run out of town, but i’m not sure Schoenert / AVP are the right guys to be developing him. They were career backups for one. It’s also not so much that the bills need to bring in a vet to replace him, but he would definitely benefit from that player relationship and (un)friendly competition.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 8, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

I like AVP fine. The QB coach is all about technique, fundamentals and keeping a guy level. Truthfully, consider Edwards one of our more consistent performers this year. He wasn’t spectacular in victory, and he’s only had a couple of truly awful games, with turnovers being the big issue. Trent will be fine, and I think Alex will too.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I like Trent

I just don’t know about the coaching staff. AVP is a likeable guy, but is he THEE guy to coach Edwards? Who knows.

To me, it just seems the team settles on too many personnel spots, both in office and in uniform. Because of that, i’m inquisitive about the coaching staff.

One of the two isn’t meshing – these next three games need to determine what side is more to blame.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 8, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The QB coach is all about technique, fundamentals and keeping a guy level.

This is the most glaring issue with our offense. Our QB’s have trouble going through progressions, lack the proper footwork in the pocket, don’t know when to audible, and are easily rattled in the pocket.

This is the coaching position I think we need to change MOST.

by bruuuuce_02 on Dec 8, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

College Coaches

Brian, did you consider any current college head coaches or asst. coaches when making this list. I know that in the past few years college coaches have been taboo, but there might be a few hidden gems.

I personally like VT’s DC Bud Foster. Year after year he produces a solid defense no matter who his players are.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

by BuffaloBrewed on Dec 8, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

I didn’t consider college coaches because it’s pretty rare for them to make a move up. You don’t see it often – Saban, Kiffin, Petrino off the top of my head are the more recent ones. We’re better served going after a guy – again, if we have to – that’s been around the league.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I made my case for Jim Harbaugh over in the post game thread from yesterday..

but as Brian said……that kinda stuff doesnt happen too often, its mostly just a pipe dream of mine

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 8, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Shanahan

We have so much more young talent on offense then on defense. We should exploit that and become a team that wins on the backs of Marshawn Lynch, Jason Peters and Lee Evans.

Maybe like his bloodline predecessor he’d actually believe in having a great fullback as a key cog in a successful offense.

This time has tried defensive minded coaches for too long and it hasn’t worked. So let’s change it up and grab a good defensive coordinator.

Also, I disagree that Cowher, if he did come back, wouldn’t want to caoch in Buffalo. He would have a lot more decision making power here than with other teams and he’d have a young team to mold with talent.

That said, I still think his chances are slim so give me Kyle Shanahan and turn Trent, Lynch, Jackson, Hardy, Evans, and Roscoe into a dangerous offense.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 8, 2008 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

The only chance there

is if Ralph died, Jim Kelly and company bought the team and hired Bill Cowher. I think then he’d come to Buffalo, and the electricity in the air would be palpable. And I’m not calling for Ralph to pass just for football.

by south123 on Dec 8, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Kyle too. Houston’s offense has been pretty good this year; he’s produced while flip-flopping quarterbacks. They’ve got a real “find” in Steve Slaton (I still don’t understand how a guy that productive falls so far in the draft – size, schmize). Kyle’s a good coach, but boy is he young.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill Cowher

may be intrigued by the personnel side but I don’t see it happening. If I am him, I go out to sunny San Diego and take over a great team in nice weather. Maybe he likes the cold though?

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think that Cleveland will court him hardest should he make it known he’d like to coach again.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I know when he first retired, it was thought he would wait and see if the Carolina job opened up. He lives in North Carolina.

by syrbillsfan on Dec 8, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s exactly right – and now, obviously, that’s not going to happen. John Fox is a good coach. So if Cowher wants in – and that’s still a pretty big if – he’ll have his pick of the litter.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

BUY THE BILLS

Okay, So Jim Kelly has been promising for some time now that if it is up to him and “collegues” that the BBs would not be leaving Buffalo. perhaps its the time that good ol Jimbo steps forward and buys the team from Ralph and starts anew?

by chefdan2 on Dec 8, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Won't sell

Ralph has repatedly said he won’t sell the team. It up to his estate to sell it when he dies.

by south123 on Dec 8, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

how about to Jim & Thurman

yes he has said this, but Jim and Thurman are his “boyz” you cant tell me that there hasnt been any conversations about this already

by chefdan2 on Dec 8, 2008 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

Why can’t we tell you that? Sure, Ralph and Jim/Thurman have probably talked, but probably not about the sale of the team. South is right – Ralph won’t sell this team.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Conversations, maybe

They don’t have the 900 million or so this team is going to be sold for. They were valued north of 800 million by Forbes.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

This is moot

Look, everyone says that Ralph is cheap. Why would he fire D.J.? He just gave him a 3 year extension. That means that however much the new coach will be paid, you can add D.J.‘s salary to it. It’s one thing to have to pay through the nose for a coach, it’s another thing all-together when you add the extra salary in.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 8, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

I agree that it’s moot. Still, it gives us an opportunity to discuss non-Bills coaches, at least in theory. Have I mentioned that I really like Raheem Morris?!

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

JIM & THURMAN

the way mr kelly has spoken on the subject and me being as cynical as i am, the fix is already in for JK ,TT and friends to buy the team

by chefdan2 on Dec 8, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions  

Well that doesn’t sound cynical at all – frankly, it sounds awesome. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Really rich friends???

I don’t see the investors. Maybe they exist but I don’t know who in Buffalo/Rochester has that kind of money. I wish they could buy it.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Me. I have the money. That would be dawesome…

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

if we all sacrifice 250 bucks a pop, we can raise enough to buy the team. The question now is who here do we trust to be in charge of the money??

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 8, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You can’t see me, but I’m raising my hand.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Who says they have to be from WNY?

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

After reading everyone's comments

I am surprised more people want big offensive people. Who is the last Offensive Coordinator or offensive guy to be successful? Ken Whisenhunt probably. Many times OCs are great OCs and can’t do the offensive magic as Head Coach (Brian Billick, Mike Tice, would you call Gary Kubiak, Jim Zorn or Sean Payton successful yet?, Norv Turner, maybe Eric Mangini).

I think great Offensive minds are great offensive coordinators. I think defensive people make better head coaches. Just a thought of mine.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

Mangini was a D-coordinator; he succeeded Romeo Crennel.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

right. I forgot Charlie Weis existed in NE for a second.

Speaking of Weis, how is he doing as a head coach??? just checking.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

In reality

I just want someone in some capacity as either HC or OC that has a fire in them when game planning and developing. Schoenert reminds me of Mike Martz, and that’s not exactly a ringing endoresment on my part.

I’m probably way off base (in my earlier post) calling for an O-minded HC. It would be nice though, if someone was in town that knew how to coach to strengths.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 8, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

J+T

JK has said that has the backers but has said little else to the fact. pretty secret about it. remember i said it first

by chefdan2 on Dec 8, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

Said what first? That Kelly would buy the team? I assure you, you aren’t the first person to say it.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

word is (allegedly)

that Golisano is attempting to sell the Sabres. Could he be the money behind Jim Kelly’s words? Golisano has denied it at this point (selling the sabres) but that is the politically correct thing to do.

by gatornation on Dec 8, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll believe it when I see it, but I can’t imagine Kelly having a list of investors without Golisano’s name appearing on it.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

by the way

how come the main page doesn’t have a countdown to the next game, instead counting down to the draft !!!!

by gatornation on Dec 8, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Because, honestly, who gives a rip about our next game? :)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I just wonder if the timetable has been moved up given our new president’s estate tax plans.

by gatornation on Dec 8, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s possible. Wayne Huizenga is doing the same thing in Miami.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

That report was quickly denied by the Sabres

and I would be very surprised if he did sell the team. I believe the rules say he would have to sell his stake in the Sabres to be an NFL guy but not until he bought the Bills. Not that I am saying he should…

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Kelly has said he has the investors

I have heard that but until I hear someone with a lot of expendable money say they are interested, I am not going to believe it is someone interested in keeping the Bills in Buffalo

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

There are only 32 head coaching jobs

It’s not terribly likely that more than 6 teams will be looking to make switches this off season.

AFC East: none, except maybe Buffalo
AFC North: Maybe Cincy and possibly Cleveland
AFC South: none—Indy has their next HC waiting in the wings
AFC West: Oakland for sure, possibly KC but I doubt it since they just upgraded the roster, San Diego won’t be looking for a coach because Smith said Turner is a guy he can ‘work with’ even if he can’t win with him.

NFC East: None, unless Jerry Jones promotes Garrett
NFC North: Lions for sure, possibly Minny though that’s pretty doubtful
NFC South: none now that Carolina is doing so well
NFC West: Rams for sure, Seahawks already have their HC waiting in the wings so long as he doesn’t screw them and take a college job, probably not San Fran now that Singletary has seemingly righted the ship.

In the AFC that’s 1 definite and 3 possibles. In the NFC that’s 2 definities and 2 possibles. Even if all of the possibles (including long shot Minny and Seattle) need to hire there will be no more than 7 chairs. Chances are excellent the number of available jobs will be closer to 5, meaning if each of the 6 guys Brian lists wants a seat 2 of them will be fighting over the job in Buffalo. Yes, Buffalo is a small market with an old owner, an uncertain future in western NY, blah, blah, blah. It’s 1 of the only 32 head coaching jobs in the world.

by Ron From NM on Dec 8, 2008 3:19 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I would list Cleveland, Detroit, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Oakland, Philadelphia, St. Louis as teams that will be looking for coaches, with Buffalo – unfortunately – the eighth team on the list.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Really, Jacksonville?

I was under the impression that JDR was pretty god-like in that town, but I don’t have anything in writing to back that up.

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Dec 8, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

highly doubt

del rio is gone after singing a deal through 2012 and this is his first blunder after building up that team

Like I posted in a fan post last week , there could be 13, but more like 6-8.

Detroit, Oakland, St. Louis, Cleveland, Seattle (not for sure Jim Mora yet) are all shoe ins.

KC, Buffalo, Philly, Minnesota, Cincy, Dallas all bubbles that may or may not be popped

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you seen how that team has quit on him? Good lord, it’s brutal….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

definately Cleveland....

Cleveland, Oakland, Detroit, St Louis, Seattle with new coaches

Cincy probably will too. I think San Fran keeps Singletary now that he has won a couple unless they are dismal in the final three.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I seem to recall talk of some sort of fan based ownership

if even for part of a bigger Jimbo deal. Can someone confirm or deny this possibility? Some details of this situation would be appreciated, as well. Is is shaped like the Green Bay arrangement?

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Dec 8, 2008 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

The Green Bay arrangement works...

largely because it was done a long time ago. I don’t know how you could publically sell shares of the Bills now. Say that the fans make up half of the Bills new theoretical ownership, they would have to put in a collective 400 million dollars or more at the very least for their half. For argument’s sake, let’s say there are 400,000 people willing to pony up money to keep the Bills here and get really nothing in return. (There are roughly 290,000 people in metro Buffalo according to recent figures.) That means each of those people would have to pony up a thousand bucks a share for virtually nothing in return. No game tickets or merchandise. Just a stake in the team. That stake can go up or down in value, however.

I am a diehard but I wouldn’t give Jim Kelly or anyone else a grand of my money.

I hope this provides a little reality to people who are saying Bills fans can buy shares of the team to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks MRW

What if fans didn’t have to cover half? Maybe just a quarter. Still, I see your point about how unlikely this is.

Sweet home Orchard Park.

by Undee on Dec 8, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Who’s to say non-fans or fans of other teams wouldn’t look to buy shares just to say they are part owners of an NFL franchise?? Plus, there are Bills fans around the world that have as much interest in keeping them where there are as those people who live in WNY…..

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Will NOT happen, unless Goddell is willing to sell out all 30 of his other bosses, excluding GB

The NFL has it in the books, that team can ONLY be owned and run by aperson with at a minimum a 30% hold of all team shares, and they must be individuals. Cannot be corporations, LLCs, associations, co-ops, you name it. Its the old method of one man, his cash, and his chunk of the team.

The NFL’s 30 other owners would never go for it. By letting fans own shares in a team as a group and giving them a voice in the teams running that way (other than us voting with tickets and merchandise e.g. cash to keep the owner in profit). If the tax payers of a town owned a team, how is the NFL to hold them up for more cash to upgrade a stadium with more luxury boxes, how can they hold a town hostage by threatening to move to a new town unless they get new tax breaks, how can they keep the common man out of their exclusive club, other than to deny oublic ownership?

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Next week...

we should look at offensive coordinator replacements…=)

by NJBillsfan on Dec 8, 2008 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

Do you mean if Jauron stays?

Because otherwise, it would be almost impossible to even speculate.

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure what you mean by this, but if Jauron stays (when he does?), he’s keeping Schonert.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

If both Jauron and Schonert stay,

the fans will stop supporting this team, I guarantee it!!!! Someone has to take the fall for the horror we call Bills football. Maybe that is what it will take for Ralf to be jolted into reality. Hit him where it hurts, in the pocket book!

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s put it this way: Jauron’s going to keep Schonert if he stays. If Wilson elects to keep him but asks him to shake up his staff, Jauron will resign.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you sure about that?

This is more than likely Jauron’s last head coaching gig. Given his record, coaches with his lifetime winning percentage don’t normally get too many chances. I firmly believe that D.J. is coaching for his HC future. Sure he could get a coordinators job somewhere, but a head coaching job..No. That said if Ralph says “fire Turk or you’re fired”, does D.J. really say “no fire me.”?

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 8, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course I’m not sure about it, friend. I’ve got me a hunch. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Been there, done that.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Whew—It’s about time you came around Brian-Yes Jauron is terrible and you never even see the guy interacting on the sideline during the games and I’ve heard enough about how the players feel about him. He’s a Pathetic coach and I feel that most kids at home playing Maddens would make better decisions than Jauron has shown us! Also Bobby April is very popular for the opposite reasons of Jauron—He’s a very enthusiastic players coach who is always consistently at the top of the league in the aspects of the game in which he controls and I think he is a gem sitting in a crowd of turds on our coaching staff!

by Fam_1st on Dec 8, 2008 3:52 PM EST reply actions  

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said I’ve “come around”. I’m still behind Dick Jauron as this team’s coach. I merely said I’m done defending the man, because that would mean I was defending his team, too. I can’t defend the team right now.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian would you think that if we do bring in a new coaching staff that it should be one with similarities in system philosophy would be better so we can sorta build off of what we already have in place instead of tear it all down and start over and if so who would that be?? Of course a coaching staff that is far more competent and not nearly as stubborn and not completely blind to what’s not working

by Fam_1st on Dec 8, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

If we’re forced to endure a head coaching change, yes, I’d rather bring in a guy who can work with the young talent we have, rather than blowing the roster apart, as Jauron himself was forced to do.

That philosophy is exactly why guys like Jim Schwartz, Raheem Morris, Ron Meeks and Ron Rivera would top my list.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Again… those are the exceptions, rather than the rule. I hear that argument all the time, but there’s no guarantee a similar turnaround would happen in Buffalo. More often than not, staying the course is the right route. Where would Carolina be if they’d fired John Fox last off-season?

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No guts....No glory!!!

Hey, that actually works for Jauron and his staff too :-)

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That wouldn’t be how I’d do it. I’d hire the best coach and let him decide what to do with the roster. If it needs to be turned over, you have to deal with that, unfortunately. You can’t limit your search to guys who have experiencing coaching similar players/schemes. If we had a roster full of stars, then it’s a little different….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Call me crazy, but I do not think the Bills should get rid of Jauron. The guy is a really good leader. However, I do think it would benefit the Bills to bring in Josh McDaniels as an offensive coordinator. Last year the patriots set the record for most points scored. Also, he has done a great job with QB Matt Cassell.

Jauron has been around many great coaches and knows what it takes to lead. However, he has never been a great offensive mind or even a great defensive mind. What the Bills need is a great offensive mind, which is what Josh McDaniels is.

by buffaloboy90 on Dec 8, 2008 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

A) Be prepared to catch hell for calling Jauron a “really good leader”.

B) Josh McDaniels isn’t going ANYWHERE to be some other team’s offensive coordinator.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would he leave those Patriots that scored all those points

for the Bills who dropped 6 on San Fransisco and Miami combined? For the challenge?

by MattRichWarren on Dec 8, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope. For the head coaching gig. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree about keeping Jauron

This team has come a very long way in 3 years. The frustration is that we are losing games because of dumb mistakes and inexperience. Even with the most conservative of play calling, we could have a winning record if we did not turn the ball over.

This is where Donohue’s curse comes back to haunt the Bills. Depth is a function of time and drafting and Jauron/Levy are living off the depth they received. I live in the DC area and they’re going through the same craziness that we are (only I’m loving it—I hate the Redskins).

I think it would be very unfair to Jauron to have someone else come in and succeed because whoever comes in will benefit from a young and quite talented roster that is a few pieces away from something special.

I say at least give the guy one more year. And I’m for keeping Shoenert, crazy as it sounds. We are just to close to be blowing this thing up now.

Last point before I shut up. Remember that Coughlin was a washed up, out-of-touch-with-today’s-players coach, who Barber criticized and was out the door. Now, he is a coaching genius. Jauron, I think knows what he is doing. I think we are a few pieces from some really good stuff.

Quite frankly, I’m looking forward to all our draft talk. I find it all so fascinating.

by Ono on Dec 8, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree about Coughlin

Coughlin’s problems were largely do to him being to much of a disciplinarian and the players being used to getting away with murder. It took some time to change things. The Giants got rid of some problems and Coughlin lightened up a bit.

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you please explain the Jauron “is a really good leader” statement? Just curious as to why you say that…

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, even I wouldn’t say that.

by kaisertown on Dec 8, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

OK....you are crazy

This team is unprepared, uninspired, underachieving, and unwatchable!!! Where exactly is Jauron leading this team………underground or just to the basement of the AFC!

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s already led us to the basement, so I guess the next logical step is underground. Or at least the sewers!!! The Ninja Turtles parallel continues!

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

glad you picked up on that

I was wondering if I was being too vague.

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian......I understand you compassion for Jauron

because I, too, think very highly of him – as a man, the way he conducts himself and treats other people. He’s a man of high class. I used to say similar things about Gregg Williams, who I honestly thought handled adversity and a very hostile press his last year in an incredibly gracious and classy manner. I felt bad when he got fired, but I understood it, as I would if the same thing happens to Jauron.

An NFL head coach only has a certain amount of years to become a winner, or he gets axed. It’s a fact of life. In Jauron’s case, with only one winning year and 7-8 losing ones (overall) as a head coach, it is understandable people want to try someone else in that position here. I agree the personal attacks are unwarranted, as they were in Williams’ case but. In both scenarios too many losses equals loss of job.

by ccthemovieman on Dec 8, 2008 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t disagree with any of this other than the fact that people count his Bears record against him. I judge people on what they’ve done for MY team, unless, obviously, they’re new guys. Jauron is 20-25. I think 3 years is too soon to fire a guy, especially when potential replacements are largely mediocre.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

My point was

that people will not be inclined to support a coach (like Jauron, at this point) who has a losing record as a head coach overall in his career. If he had better W-L record with the Bears before he got fired, people might be a little more patient knowing that he has been a winner in the past.

No one, by the way, wants another mediocre coach. What we might need more than anything are smarter football people in the front office, people who do a better job of hiring HCs and drafting players. We also live in a world where people want results NOW, not five years from now.

by ccthemovieman on Dec 8, 2008 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i think

brian you may agree with me, as I have also been a staunch supporter of Jauron and like you, having stability and not just blowing everything up at a whim. But can I ask you

1) are you warming to the idea or entertaining the idea of firing Jauron

2) why do you think if Jauron stays, Schonert will too?

Regardless if people want to kill me, I think Jauron should stay if he can bring in a good OC….and why couldn’t he?

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 4:50 PM EST reply actions  

1) I’m steadfastly against the idea of firing Jauron. My position hasn’t changed. I can only write the same “Jauron shouldn’t go” article so many times, and I figured this would be a topic that a lot of you would want to explore.

2) Jauron isn’t the type to fire a coordinator after one go-round. That’s just his nature. I think, if given a fourth season here, he’ll give Turk the benefit of the doubt, but tell him to not suck.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

no way!

I don’t care what kind of coach he is, if Jauron is given a fourth season here he knows his butts on the line for real. Loyalty to Turk is not going to stop him from bringing in a proven coordinator if he stays. And I agree with Marv, I want Jauron to stay and a new o-coordinator to come in, unless Bill Cowher expresses interest in the Bill.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Dec 8, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait… what are you saying “no way!” to? Him keeping Schonert? I believe that Jauron believes he can get the job done with Schonert as his offensive coordinator. I doubt he fires him if he stays.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well

im impressed with your conviction. I once had a strong conviction that give DJ 5 years no matter what…I was hoping that in year 2 or 3 we would have some success though like a 9-10 win season even if that meant no playoffs, it would be enough to keep the fan base at ease….now, however with the debacle of the last 8 games, I’m not so sure. I have warmed up to the thought of ax’n DJ

I now DJ is loyal, but I don’t think he can stay if Turk is still the guy. He needs help and maybe DJ is too high of character to axe Turk and bring in someone new, but with your job on the line you do things you wouldn’t normally do

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Dec 8, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

My conviction all along has been to give Jauron 4 years.

As I said in an above comment – if Jauron stays, he’ll want to keep Schonert. If Wilson tries to force him to fire Schonert, I could see him resigning.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

That last line makes it sound like Jauron told Schonert to suck this year. Haha. Actually, it would make sense explaining how bad Schonert is.

Fair or unfair, if Jauron stays, he has to do something about Schonert. Simply telling him to be better won’t help. Schonert just doesn’t seem to understand what needs to be done to win with the players we have.

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No I agree. A Turk Schonert fan I am not. But I don’t think Jauron is going to want to change things drastically on his staff.

We’re heading toward a firestorm…

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

gotta love the status quo and keeping all the same crappy pieces in place when you stink. if that happens, my head might explode….and i fully expect it to happen.

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 8, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrap your head in duct tape now. That way if/when it explodes you should be able to find all of the pieces.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 8, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t want to have to rip the duct tape off in case the staff is ousted. I would like to keep my hair and be pain free, thank you.

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 9, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

If you were to video that and post it here, that would be great.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Dec 9, 2008 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I hope Jauron has

already told Turk not to suck. What will make it different next season?

by Joe P. on Dec 8, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

3 years

A head coach is usually given a timeline of 3 years to become successful. Maybe, possibly Turk Schonert isn’t very good at being a coodinator due to the fact that this is his first year at it. He needs to learn how to be one. He needs to figure out what play to call during what situation and how many variations of that play can he come up with to adjust for defensive changes. He also needs to prepare his players and figure out where their talents lie and how to fully utilize them and how to play away from their weaknesses. Its unrealistic to expect a new head coach to have a winning record right out of the box, so why should it be any different for a brand-new coordinator?

The staff should remain intact and be allowed to gel as a unit in the same way O-lines need the time. Turk is in a learning period this year and hopefully he can see what winning teams did this year and try to emulate the good stuff for next year. We do have the talent, but if the coordinator doesn’t know how to use it, then its like the expensive Italian sportscar left in the garage.

I understand next year WILL be Jauron’s 4th year and he should be at the successful point by now, but with the Steve Fairchild factor that went on his first 2 seasons, he should be given a pass. The team still has the SFM hangover and it will take a bit of time to shake off. They had the Donahoe hangover to get rid of and Marv took care of that. Let ths thing develop. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long that we don’t lose the talent to free agency first.

by JTM1023 on Dec 9, 2008 3:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Turk's lack of judgement does not warrent him further time to develop

The lack of running plays vs the Fins with JP as the QB is the obvious example of my argument.

by Joe P. on Dec 9, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

You can’t give the guy a pass when he is the one hiring these bozos to run the O….

~K

by Kurupt on Dec 9, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Jauron isn't the problem

There was an article in ESPN magazine last year about which teams in all sports were the worst to be a fan. The Bills were listed as one of the worst teams in all sports to be a fan. It is my humble opinion that the reason for this distinction is Ralph Wilson. When the AFL was competing with the NFL, Wilson was committed to the success of the league. Thus he had the motivation to put out a good product. He and the rest of the owners in the new upstart league knew they had an opportunity to achieve great financial success if they could obtain parity with the established NFL. Hence you had Wilson paying attention to his new busness and it showed. The Bills in the early and mid sixties had teams that Bills fans were proud to cheer for. Once the merger between the two leagues occurred the quality of teams the Bills organization put out was dismal at best. Then Buffalo Bills fans got lucky when an inexspensive GM newcomer was hired. That GM was Bill Polian. Of course Polian was subsequntley fired by Wilson for reasons I don’t know. But Wisons $25,000 investment has done nothing but appreciate. Estimates are the Bills are worth 750 million dollars. I don’t fault Wilson for enhancing his investment. However, I feel sorry for the Buffalo Bills Fans who have supported the Bills over the years and now have the dubious distiction of be a fan to one of the worst teams to support. I could give numerous examples of moves made by the Bills that have broken the hearts of the fans. But since most people reading this post are Bills Fans I won’t add to the misery.

by gjv on Dec 8, 2008 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

one Rex Ryan Please

and failing that, and I am not kidding here…..

Turner Gill – because he can turn a program around!

by freddyjj on Dec 8, 2008 5:54 PM EST reply actions  

Gill isn’t ready to be a pro head coach by a long shot. He may never be. He’s all hype – he belongs in NCAA for the time being.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Had a busy day at work and am way behind with reading what is going on with this site (havn’t even read the comments on this article), so I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this but …..

I would immediately drop Shanahan or any other offensive mind that will run a zone blocking scheme. Buffalo just doesn’t have the personel to pull it off. The OL is one of the few units on the team that can be salvaged (with a new center) and I wouldn’t want to even consider someone who is going to scrap what we currently have in place their because it would push the rebuilding process at least another year further from finished. Maybe more important than that is the fact that I want to see a true power running offense in Buffalo. I think if we can find an above average center and start running it up the gut on these 3-4 defenses that all our division opponents use, then this offense (with better QB play) can be very succesful.

I’m also not a fan of Ron Rivera. He got passed over for a reason. He couldn’t even find a DC job anywhere last offseason. He had elite talent all over the field when he was the DC in chicago and I think those players are what led to all the hype about Rivera. Look at Chicago’s 2005 starters on defense and tell me that any guy couldn’t have made himself a hot coaching name with these guys.

DE – Adawale Ogunleye
DT – Tommie Harris
DT – Tank Johnson
DE – Alex Brown
OLB – Lance Briggs
MLB – Brian Urlacher
OLB – Hunter Hillenmeyer
CB – a healthy Nathan Vasher
CB – a healthy Charles “Peanut” Tillman
FS – a healthy Mike Brown
SS – about to be Pro Bowler Chris Harris

by kaisertown on Dec 8, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply actions  

You have to be desperate to want to be the Bills head coach

With an advertising executive as the GM, the head of your scoutng department prefers to live in Jacksonville rather than Buffalo, and an owner who has not demonstrated since 1965 he is committed to bring a championship team to Buffalo. Good Luck.

by gjv on Dec 8, 2008 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

an owner who has not demonstrated since 1965 he is committed to bring a championship team to Buffalo

… what was 1990-1993?

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

pure luck

If you go back to the late 80"s the hiring of Bill Polian and Marv Levy was not viewed as going after the best GM talent or coaching talent available. Fortunately, it turned out great. But it was pure luck. I don’t like to be critical but it appears the fire burnt out of Ralph Wison belly in 1967.

by gjv on Dec 8, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

When has “going after the best GM talent or coaching talent” turned into a guaranteed thing? Short answer is, it doesn’t guarantee anything. The other side of your argument is that Ralph was courageous in sticking to his guns on Polian, believing he was the right guy for the job. He turned out to be right.

I’m sorry, but your argument that Ralph hasn’t been committed to winning for 41 years holds no water at all.

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 8, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Loving the fact that you're always ready to play devils advocate.....its nice......

keeps the debates going……you’re a great host Brian………(holding in the urge to say last name)

PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.

by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 9, 2008 2:38 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL devil’s advocate or not, that’s what I truly believe. Thanks, norcali. :)

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by Brian Galliford on Dec 9, 2008 6:41 AM EST up reply actions  

There certainly are not guarantees as to how a new hire will perform. But the question is about Wilson demonstrating a committment since the early 60"s to bring a championship to Buffalo. Certainly back in the late 80"s the hiring of Polian was not a demonstration on Wilson part of going after the premire GM talent of the day. Polian turned out to be a great GM. But that was pure fate because Polian was unknown in the NFL. What is known is that Wilson fired him for reasons I don’t know. It is my opinion that Wilson knows Buffalo will put up with anything he puts on the field at The Ralph. If by chance they have some success that allright. But since the mid 60"s he has not had the strong desire to make the Bills a perenial contender let alone a champion. He a business man first and foremost, and unless your a Bills fan there is nothing wrong with that. But as a Bills fan we are relagated to support (according to ESPN ) one of the worst teams to be a fan of.

by gjv on Dec 8, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions  

I really want to rip into the whole Ralph Wilson hasn’t “demonstrated a commitment” since the 1960’s thing, but Bill Polian really did luck into our laps. He was hired by GM Terry Bledsoe as director of pro personel and took over the reigns when Bledsoe had a heart attack. He did so well as the interim guy, that the team fired Bledsoe and promoted Polian. I will say that hiring John Butler to take over for Polian was a move that was almost universaly considered the right one. Butler was considered one of the best talent evaluaters who wasn’t in a GM role in the league. If Polian would have stayed with the Bills for a few more years, Butler would have been a candidate to take a GM job elsewhere. The Bills offered Butler about a mil a year before Ralph oddly fired him for not aaccepting that offer. Polian was making 1.3 mil a year at the time. Ralph came out and said that his offer of 1 mil was more than the average of the 7 or 8 highest paid GMs in the league. Ralph kind of pinched pennies with the Butler firing, but not as much as Bills fans make it seem. He then hired Tom Donahoe who was also considered a good hire. He came with an impressive and proven resume as the GM of the Steelers. It’s funny that Wilson did what all the fans considered a great move by going outside the organization and hiring a “name” guy when being cheap and promoting AJ Smith would have been a better move. While Wilson didn’t exactly splurge on Donahoe, he did pay about what the league average was for GMs. I agree that Ralph hasn’t been a great owner and he always doesn’t go after the “best” guy for the job, but saying he hasn’t been commited to winning since the sixties is going a little too far.

by kaisertown on Dec 8, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I had always pushed for AJ Smith instead of letting him follow Butler

I’ve always been a bit of a back office guy when it came to football, and I always felt we should have kept up the chain of hires from within after Polian came in for Bledsoe. Butler was pretty good, and Smith would have been a great guy to bring up within. Sadly he follow Butler, and now has created the team in San Diego. His choice of Norv wasn’t the best, but he is a head strong guy, much like the 3 guys prior to him who were GM of the Bills at one point or another.

Needless to say, would I have prefered Smith over the past 8+ years, you betcha.

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 AM EST up reply actions  

another coach

I think you really need to put Brian Billick up there. He’s a motivator and definitely worthy of an interview in my opinion

by pasaluki on Dec 9, 2008 1:16 AM EST reply actions  

I agree

I was surprised to not see his name posted, or even Jim Fassel. Dom Capers has been successful as well, but was destined to fail in Houston. I know the Dolphins went 1-15 last year, but Cam Cameron was given the boot by a new GM(Pres.) so he wasn’t given a real chance to develop a team either. He must have been hired for a reason originally. Anyone know whatever happened to Steve Mariuchi? He failed at his last gig, but it was the Detroit Lions. Even Bill Belechick couldn’t win in that environment. Maybe Mariuchi deserves another look. And, what about Mike Martz. He could turn this talented offense into the greatest show on Turf, part Deux. We have the RB that compares himself to Marshall Faulk. Could be intriguing to say the least.

by JTM1023 on Dec 9, 2008 3:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Billick is overrated

Look what the Ravens have done without him in one year. Fassel and Mooch are also big Noways. Martz would have to commit to the run to win in Buffalo. Has he ever done well in outdoor games in December? Not being sarcastic, I just don’t know the answer. I would have no problem with Cameron or Capers.

by Joe P. on Dec 9, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a shame, the whole situation

My thing is that the talent has definitely been built up well over these past few offseasons, but you need the quality coaching necessary to get the most out of the available talent. I like the idea of a coach being “stoic” is the face of adversity, but sometimes Jauron just seems like a deer in headlights. While I think Fewell has done pretty well with the D during this losing streak. They’ve kept the score pretty competitive despite being put in pretty crappy situations due to turnovers and lack of sustaining drives. Turk Shoenert needs to be fired ASAP. He’s worse than Fairchild because at least Fairchild was overly conservative and stuck to the run game. Of course I’m just describing the lesser of 2 evils, but you can catch my drift.

I’ve been a pretty ardent supporter of Jauron based on his even-handed approach and steady influence. However, he seems to be at a loss for both words and solutions this year. I would like us to stay a base 4-3 if we get a new coach next year, so Spags seems to fit that mold. It’s a sad day for Buffalo fans because the opportunity was there in so many different ways. The schedule was favorable, Tom Brady went down, etc. The team just seems to lack focus and true leadership this year. There’s very little accountability in the locker room for lackluster play and attitudes. It’s very disheartening when the stars seemed to finally be aligning in our favor. I truly believe our team is/was good enough talent wise to make the playoffs this year, but I think the coaching staff has truly let us and the team down on this situation, and that falls on Jauron. There’s enough playmakers and potential playmakers (Hardy I’m looking at you) that the right coaching staff could make us ridiculously good in a hurry with Trent as the QB.

by live6453 on Dec 9, 2008 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

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