With the big man up the middle we can they ride our stud backfield into the playoffs!

Suggs in FA, the guy could play SLB and sometimes maybe move him into DE.

I’m not as convinced that those guys will be available though. I don’t understand how a team could let somebody like Suggs or Peppers hit the free agent market. Suggs is only 26 and Peppers is back to being a stud with 12.5 sacks in 13 games.

I would be alright with Berry, but he is going to be 34. He isn’t enough of an upgrade to give this defense what it needs. I think a stud DE and an average center would do more for this team than a stud center and an average DE would.

I would prefer that last scenario. I can’t see anyone taking a Center in the top 12 where we’ll be picking….

I reced it.

He’s like th 10th rated Center this year…….but he also has extensive starting experience at guard….(He’s been an Outland Trophy candidate two years as well)

Just my two cents.

When the Bills want an interior lineman to pull it’s usually Butler. Dock does on occasion but not very often. Peters will pull, particularly on misdirection plays and Walker will pull out to the right flat on a couple of specific run plays.

you may be right, but did you see some of the plays Beck made last year for MIA? man was he bad

A good grade is 95, decent is 75 and bad is 55….even though I sometimes wish I could give someone a 10 for a particularly awful play. Instead, a bad play is a bad play is a bad play. It takes a good chunk of the subjectiveness out of the equation. It’s one thing to determine if a player screwed up and another to assign a percentage to just how badly they screwed up.

Here’s how the grading works, using Jason Peters’ run plays as an example…

78 good (78*95=7410), 159 decent (159*75=11925), 26 bad (26*55=1430), 4 killed, grade: 79.0

7410+11925+1430=20765 divided by 263 (number of plays) = 78.954 rounds up to 79.0

We can be a community GM. Imagine how many sweet polls we could put up that way…

Even if he could transition to center (he has the mentality if not the frame), do you really want a guy who may let Preston back on the field due to injury?

Actually Butler is too tall to play center and I wrote a fanpost about it last offseason.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2008/4/19/16626/5799

…Butler moreso than Dock. It’s sad to say but true—the pulling guard all too often has to hurdle Preston’s carcass (or detour well behind the line to go around Preston and the DT who has pushed him back 2 yards) in order to pull to the other side of the line.

will NEVER snap it up his ass!!!

Sounds painful

What Ron does is he grades every play by giving each player a 95 for a good play, a 75 for a decent play and a 55 for a bad one and averages it all out. He could obviously go into much more detail, but that gives you a general idea of where his numbers come from.

The reason the players get better grades for run plays than pass plays is just because of how difficult it is to stand out and get a grade of 95 in pass protection. Players just kind of rack up the decent plays by doing their job and then get pulled down by the occasional bad play.

draft Mack in the first and send the giants a 2 and 3 for Kiwanuka or Roscoe Parrish and a pick for the young DE

I say we give them denny, kelsay, mccargo and royal for Kiwanuka. it’ll be like a basketball trade.

here’s all this crap…give me your good guy :)

i agree with you Poz that drafting a center in the first as long as mack is there is a good idea. however, that depends on what spot we pick and of course any DE or LBs that may be a better for us at that spot. We definately need pressure on the QB and we’re not getting it. I would say that a pressure player might take priority over a center in the first this year. again…it depends on how it falls.

in the world would the Giants even consider that trade? A starting DE for a couple of mid round picks and/or a crappy WR?

What if the DE is a freak athlete like a Michael Johnson or Gregg Hardy type who is just a little raw? What if the DE can come in and take about 60% of the snaps? Do you think that is close enough to a starter to be considered?

The Giants are on top of the world, they have no need for expensive players who will not be starting, ala Kiwanuka behind Tuck and Umenyiora and will have a greater need for more picks especially with Plax done, Amani Toomer set to be a free agent, a need at LB and in the secondary, and an average TE in Boss. Plus, they will probably lose him to free agency soon enough after they spend the Plax money to resign Jacobs, Ward, or both.

I have no qualms drafting Mack in the first and sending our 2nd and 3rd for Kiwanuka. None at all.

4) The center position is currently dragging the whole line down because we have to compensate. A strong center will make everyone around him better

- Yup – can’t step up into the pocket

3) We play in a division of 3-4 defenses with dominant Nose Tackles (6 games per year – minimum). It is imperative that we get a top ranked center in order to give ourselves a chance.

- couldn’t agree more. this is a weakness and if they have studs up there at nose then we have to counter that. look at this year. you should build your team to win your divisional games. how are we doing this year at that? yeaaaaahhhhh…..staring 0-6 in the face. not good my friend. not good

way to argue the point much better than I could. Those are all excellent reasons. Couldn’t agree more, great post!

Those are 7 great reasons, but here are 6 great reasons for drafting a DE instead of a C.

1) DEs are WAY more expenisve, so getting one at the price of a mid first round pick would be a much smarter financial move than making a center one of the higher paid players at his position as a rookie.

2) Teams scheme and prepare for dominant DEs, but not so much for centers.

3) Centers help double team a DT on pass downs, while DEs GET double teamed on pass downs.

4) It is a lot tougher to find a stud DE with after the first round than it is to find a stud center in the middle rounds

5) A pass rush is the one thing in the NFL that consistantly forces turnovers, something our defense doesn’t do nearly enough.

6) Most importantly a DE will give everyone on the defense a better oportunity to make plays. A consistent pass rush will force the QB to make quicker decisions. The offense will have to leave TEs and RBs in to help in pass protect which makes it easier for the secondary and linebackers. Teams will start to always put their TEs and RBs on the same side to help with pass protection making the offense more predictable and allowing the D better oppurtunities to blitz the opposite side.

Two words: Bruce Smith

Thats not crazy at all. The Bills could then draft a Center to develop later in the draft, and concontrate elsewhere in the mean time, (TE, DT, O-Line depth)

You not as dumb as you make yourself sound Joe.

Gotta keep losing and then trade some of our current wins for losses to get that high in the draft. Crabtree is top 5….

I will say this….there is a WR in this draft, likely a mid 2nd rounder, that I would trade Hardy for in a heartbeat. His name is Kenny Britt, he hails from Rutgers unfortunately….

Fred Jackson has actually only been in the league for 2 years, so he isn’t even an RFA. The Bills have exclusive rights on Jackson. Greer is the big UFA name for Buffalo.

Here is the thing with value, The difference between Alex Mack (who Buffalo could take in the first) or Jonathon Luigs or Max Unger (who Buffalo could take in the second) is probably considerably less than the difference between a guy like Gregg Hardy and Michael Johnson vs. Austin English, Larry English, Brandon Graham, Matt Shaughnessy, Connor Barwin or whoever is the best guy left after 40 picks. That’s what the value argument is all about and it is a very valid argument. I think the top 5 guys (Orakpo, Hardy, Johnson, Selvie and Brown) are long gone by the time the Bills pick a second time, but the second best center is probably still on the board.

We need to draft the center we target and I’m betting that is Mack. I have been roaming the net for several hours now looking at center prospects and here is what I have found, so far.
NFL scouts think Mack is the best lineman in this draft (other than 3 OT’s who always get more respect). Center is the Rodney Dangerfield position. No respect. BUT, Mack is different. He stands out from the crowd for his leadership, intelligence and work ethic.
He has led a Cal offense that has a dominant running game on an otherwise meh team. He is a devastating run blocker who can move any pile either to the right or left. He excels at blocking in space and loves to take on players beyond the line of scrimmage.
He is the model of a workout warrior. I’m guessing that he will have the lowest body fat measurement of any offensive lineman at the combine. He is a physical BEAST. Google him in images and look at some pics. He has zero belly fat. Then Google Unger and Luigs. They look like centers. Mack doesn’t.
Speaking of other C prospects, I found that scouts feel Luigs and Unger both do not have the lower body strength that Mack has. Especially with Luigs, he gets eaten up and pushed around in tight quarters. Mack creates a lane. A real bulldozer.
The only percieved weakness in Mack is his pass blocking. He simply has not done a lot of that at Cal. But scouts think, with his natural gifts, that he will improve his pass blocking skills quickly.
He is a model citizen off the field. Very high character. Not one to draw attention to himself. He had 2 offers from colleges and paid his way to Cal to tryout for them. Is this not a Bills type player?
Scouts think he will come in and quickly take over the leadership role of whatever line he is with. And as Keysh said, he will command his line for 10yrs+. He is seen as the best “can’t miss” prospect in this draft. Scouts compare him to Birk and Mangold.
The center position is strong if you like Unger and Luigs. Otherwise, it’s Mack and Caldwell (whom I watches vs Fla.). Caldwell also has great leadership and great lower body strength.
The DE class is deep next year. I have roamed on that position too and no DE stands out like Mack does. I would not take Orakpo (tweener, LB). Michael Johnson just started playing football in his junior year! A bit raw and takes plays off. Hardy has enormous potential if he can turn on his motor. He also takes plays off. Selvie is intriuging. But his overall size bothers me. He started as a freshman at 215lbs. But I do like him. Another name moving up the boards is Everett Browm from FSU. Not much on the web on him. But seen as steady. Shaughnessey is moving up too. Me thinks we could land a very good DE in round 2.
When roaming, it appears that both Philly and Arizona want a center. So, it is entirely possible that both Mack and Caldwell will not be t here in round 2.
The best way to help our D is to finally create a dominant run game and rule the time of possesion. Mack would have a very beneficial influence on the entire line, especially the guards next to him. AND, it would make Marshawn very happy. If we do not improve our Oline with a stud C, I predict he will walk after his rookie contract expires. Get Mack, and he stays with us. I rest my case.

The made one of them a Guard (Mike Pollack) so they took Lineman, not just centers.