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Bills Needs List, Part IV: Defensive Back Seven

Is it inside or out for DiGiorgio? (BuffaloBills.com)

If someone feels up to it, go ahead and start the petition: this community is ready to take over the decision-making position (whether that's GM or COO) of the Buffalo Bills. No offense to Russ Brandon, Marv Levy, John Guy et al, but this is one intelligent community - and we'd do the job right. In case you missed it, last week we put together an offensive needs list for our Bills, and also began discussing the defensive side of things by prioritizing the D-Line.

Today, we'll begin finalizing the defensive needs list, and by mid-week, we'll have assembled a team-wide needs list, which we'll tweak throughout the off-season as the Bills make acquisitions. So let's get started on finishing this business up by taking a look at the Bills' back seven defensively. Linebackers, corners and safeties are the topic (we covered each unit about two weeks ago). In those discussions, here's where we decided possible additions and subtractions might occur:

Possible Additions
OLB: mid-priced FA; one to two early-round selections
MLB: veteran backup (if DiGiorgio moved outside)
CB: mid-round rookie; low-priced veteran free agent
FS: none
SS: low-round pick

Possible Subtractions
OLB: Mario Haggan, Josh Stamer, Leon Joe, Kevin Harrison
MLB: Blake Costanzo
CB: Jason Webster, Dustin Fox
SS: Bryan Scott, Jon Corto
FS: Jim Leonhard

Your charge today, fellow general managers, is to prioritize the defensive needs list by following these steps:

1. Prioritizing the following in terms of highest need to lowest need: two linebackers (at least one outside; one inside if you believe John DiGiorgio should move outside, otherwise two outside); cornerback, and strong safety. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the club needs three linebackers; if you're of the same mind, feel free to add a third linebacker to the list as well.

2. Based on the D-Line discussion linked above, the community has placed DT as a higher priority than DE - but barely. Therefore, like we did with tight end and wide receiver (which we'll discuss in the next couple of days again), they're getting a 1-1a status. Sprinkle DT and DE (in that order) into the back seven list, and we'll provide a formal announcement of the defensive needs list later on this evening. Have at it, GMs!

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Here's what I think..
I'd like to see them grab a stud CB.  I'm completely okay with the safeties (I think that spot doesn't need to be touched at all, much like the RB spot).

I say CB because I'm not sold on Greer.  Granted, he was a great story, but I'd like him more as a backup.  Yobouty is getting this close (hold thumb and index finger a half inch apart) to being a bust.  This is a make or break year for him.  Webster is so-so, and Thomas is only slightly better.

As far as LBs go, I think the first priority is to lock up Crowell.  Poz coming back immediately helps this group.  I like Ellison, Digi, and Wire as depth guys.  Could we use another starter here?  Sure.  I just don't think of it as a pressing need.  

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

List
1-  DE
1a- DT
2-  WLB
3-  CB
4-  Re-sign Haggan (if not, sign a  vet special teamer, who can play if needed to)

I wouldn't touch the Safety position, unless I could add a huge improvement, a low-round pick probably isn't any better than what we have.  I can't see the Bills drafting a safety in the 6th round, and having him be better than Scott, or Leonhard. So unless I'm adding one with the first or second round picks (in which case we would riot) I would just leave it alone.

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

My list would go like this
1  DT
2  CB
3  DE
4  WLB

I know you (sireric) will probably go round and round on the DT vs DE thing, and after watching the Giants pass rush, I'm sure it gives more weight to your argument.  Still, I'm convinced better DT play will improve the current DEs play.  And a guy brought in to play DE probably wouldn't play much in that rotation, unless he was a true stud.

Glad we agree on the safeties.  I can see them going with six next year.

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

Two sides to that argument
Better DE play, will make for less of a need for a CB. If the ends are getting to the QB, then he is forced to make a quick throw, making the CB's job easier. Greer showed if nothing else, he is opportunistic.
I think were we would disagree on corners is our level of trust in Greer and and K. Thomas. I thought they did pretty well, could they be upgraded? sure, but not at the expense of D-Line. If you want to argue which is more important DE or DT thats fine, Really I want both. I just wouldn't pass on a good DE or DT in favor of a CB.

As far as a new DE not playing much, if the current threesome isn't getting to the QB, but a younger guy shows that he can, why stick to the rotation? Just because of time served, or paycheck? HE doesn't have to be a stud, just show that he can get to the QB better than the weakest link in the rotation.

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree about CBs
You're correct - we do need help at both DE and DT.  That's the most immediate need fr this team.

Greer was very opportunistic; a nice surprise indeed (by the Donahoe regime, correct?).  I love stories like his.  

How happy would you and I both be if they somehow finangled C. Williams in FA, and then Gholston and a second tier DT (Simms, Balmer, Bryant, Pressley, or Moore) in the draft?  Some might say that's overkill on the DL, but all seven positions behind these guys would reap the benefits immediately.

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

That would be great
If that were to happen, I would pass out from shock. I would love that. I don't see them taking a DT that high IF they sign Williams, But I would love it if they did.

Yes Greer was one of Donahoe's, one thing I do have to give TD, he did get his hands on some good undrafted free agents. (Greer, Peters)

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Really?
I'm a little surprised that you two are so content with adding just one linebacker. I'm of the mind that, though I think there are certainly positions that need upgrades quicker (defensive end), our linebackers outside of Crowell and Posluszny are pathetic. Ellison and DiGiorgio would conceivably be solid depth - let them play special teams, and get rid of Haggan/Stamer altogether. We need to at least bring in one starter and a third depth option (preferably young, speedy options); if we don't lock up Crowell, a third LB is a must. Our linebackers are weak in coverage and need a serious boost of power and athleticism. That's why, as my mind continues to change, Keith Rivers is my current favorite draft prospect.
Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2008 1:02 PM EST reply actions  

Linebackers
In my opinion Haggan is a better special teams player than Ellison or Digiorgio. The Bills special teams have been great the last few years because of guys like Stamer, Haggan, and even Wire. I don't want to lose all three of those guys, or else special teams will take a hit. In my opinion Haggan has the most value of those three because he can play some linebacker, and his size and speed can be used situationally. Stamer is straight S.T. and Wire doesn't really have a position. I don't want to say, let Ellison play S.T. if he isn't any good at it, I would rather keep Haggan and cut Ellison.

could this team add two or even three linebacker? sure, but lets just be sure that we aren't taking a step back on special teams when we do it.

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

3 LB's?
Kind of excessive, eh?

I believe, without any argument, that a starting OLB is a bigtime need for us. I don't care who he is as long as his first name isn't Keith and his last name isn't Ellison. I'd be willing to sign a mid-to-low tier FA while drafting an OLB in the first 3 rounds.  I'm intrigued by this Brandon Chillar dude from the Rams, who's only 25 coming off a pretty good season. I don't see how Briggs or Dansby have any chance of being signed here. I've seen guys like Landon Johnson and Boss Bailey mentioned, but they aren't anything special and would probably command a decent contract. I'm more willing to sign a younger, somewhat unknown player to possibly man the position for a shorter period, while we groom a rookie.  I have no problem going OLB in round 1 or 2. If we took a Keith Rivers in round 1, then obviously I wouldn't expect a FA signing. However, going into round 2 or 3, I like guys such as Phillip Wheeler (Ga Tech), Erin Henderson (Maryland) and Tavares Gooden (Miami) who could come in and start right away, but are not guarenteed to be ready.  Those guys are true talents and would give us a much need talent/speed infusion at the position.

I think we need an upgrade at CB too, but I'm not sure the best way to go about that. I wouldn't mind adding a veteran like Drayton Florence or Brian Kelly, but also a rookie to groom as guys like Greer, Thomas, Youboty and McGee will all be seeing their contracts end in the next 2 years.  I actually think the best way to go is adding one of the two FA's I mentioned, cut Thomas (who does nothing for me) and taking a talented rookie within the first 4 rounds, especially one with return ability. That'd give us more flexibility in the future and upgrade the talent in a somewhat cheap fashion.

My needs would look like this:

1. DE
1a. DT
1b. OLB

  1. CB
  2. Another LB
I think safety is alright assuming Jim Leonhard is gone.
~K

by Kurupt on Feb 4, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

My take
My needs list for the back 7 would be:
  1. - New Starting WLB
  2. - Young Cornerback
  3. - Depth linebacker (inside, outside or both)
I don't view safety as a need
Jim Leonhard's 51 tackles was good for 6th on the team.  I think he is a good reserver type and I don't know why people are so down on him.  I'm not sure Wendling is going to make it at safety, he seems like more of a special teams ace to me and that leaves room on the roster for five safeties (Whitner, Simpson, Wilson, Leonhard, Wendling).

Ellison only had 38 tackles last year.  I'm not even sure how that is possible.  Either there is a big statkeeping conspiracy or he is terrible.

Adding the D-Line needs back into the equation my list looks like:

  1. - Starter at WLB
  2. - big time DT talent
  3. - playmaking DE
  4. - Young Cornerback
  5. - Depth Linebacker

by kaisertown on Feb 4, 2008 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

What Greer's contract status?
Even though I feel the need for a dependable corner is real, I would also like to so it's important to possible extend Greer's contract.  I bet he could be had long term for a very decent price, and he's ideal depth.

I also might consider extending Mckees as well, even though he's in the middle of it.  

In my opinion, it's better to be aggressive early in a players contract, rather than the Sabres way of thinking..

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply actions  

Greer Contract
Jabari is set to earn $700K next season, and will then hit unrestricted free agency in 2009.
Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Greer is
gonna stand to make some loot then.  I'll bet he could be had right now for four years and ten million plus, on the conservative side..

If you balk at that, think about this: 4rs/10m is what Price and Reed signed for.

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats not a terrible idea
By the time that contract gets to the 3rd or 4th year, and if Greer isn't performing up to it's value, you can always cut him.
Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Safety
Don't forget, folks, that Bryan Scott is a free agent, and it's not a guarantee that he's back in a Bills uniform next season. If he leaves, how can a backup strong safety not be on this list? Wendling is there, sure, but is he ready to play? Or is he solely a special teams guy?
Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Feb 4, 2008 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

Scott
Scott is one of the few FA's I hope we re-sign. Wendling, IMO, isn't going to help us at SS next season. Therefore, we need a backup and I really liked what Scott gave us this year. If we decide to blitz more next year, Scott's value goes up even more.

I would keep Scott over Leonhard every time. What exactly is the point of keeping Leonhard when we'd have a healthy Ko and Wilson at FS ahead of him? Whitner has the ability to shift to FS if it were totally necessary.  I don't see how Leonhard fits on this team next year, and that's a good thing in my book. He's brutal in coverage and a bigtime liability against the run.

Whitner, Simpson, Wilson, Scott and Wendling would be the safeties on my roster.

~K

by Kurupt on Feb 4, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep Bryan Scott
When the Bills ask their safety to play up in the box, they need a sure tackler, somebody who can throw their body around and make a hit. currently that guy, more often than not is Whitner. But what if he isn't there? Bryan Scott is the next best thing. I wouldn't rule Wendling out of the picture, and make him a straight special teams guy just yet.

I think that if you keep Scott then you are looking at Whitner, Simpson, Wilson, Scott and Wendling, and I'm good with that. I also wouldn't rule little Jimmy out just yet. I think Brian said it before, the coaching staff loves him, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see him on the team next year.

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be so hard on Leonhard..
They obviously like him a lot.  He actually reminds me of Mark Kelso a little.  I think he'll be around.

I like what I saw of Scott too.  But I think you're underestimating two things.  First, Wendling was a special teams demon last year, and the current regime loves him for that.  Second, the difference between the first year for a player and the second year is enormous.  That's when the learning curve is at it's highest.  And while this coaching staff to me seems lacking in game calling, they sure do seem to "teach football" rather well...

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think
it is tough to fit just 53 guys on a roster.  I don't think Wendling is anywhere near being ready to play safety, but he still has potential and is already a good special teamer.  George Wilson actually weighs a few pounds more than Whitner does and should be the primary backup at both safety spots.  The Bills started last season with Wilson and Leonhard as the only reserves and will likely do the same this year.  Coy Wire (if he is on the team next year) could help out in a pinch and Corto is a solid bet to be on the practice squad next year as well.  I would rather have Leonhard than an unknown like a lower tier FA or late round draft pick who who may be slightly more physically suited for SS.

by kaisertown on Feb 4, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

My list (updated with safety)
1-  DE
1a- DT
2-  WLB
3-  CB
4-  Re-sign Haggan (if not, sign a  vet special teamer, who can play if needed to)
5-  Re-sign Bryan Scott, this will also help Special teams as Wendling can now concentrate on his duties there.
Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

How much shock would there be
If they drafted the safety from The U in the first round?

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn't be shocked
No matter who the GM of the Bills has been for the last 10 years or so, he has never once listened to me, when I yell at the T.V. telling them who to pick. I don't expect this year to be any different.

John Guy did say that this team would look to up-grade safety. I suppose anything is possible.

Who would have thought I'd miss Pete Metzelaars?

by sireric on Feb 4, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I've tried yelling at the TV too.
I also punched my car roof upon hearing Evans get picked.

But again, what do I know?  I was happy with the pick of Mike Williams, and was pretty wrong on that one..

by krytime on Feb 4, 2008 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

WLB
This is a good time for the Bills to need a WLB.  This draft is filled with some pretty good ones, as has been mentioned; Rivers (USC), Highsmith (LSU), Adibi (VT).  Plus, I have been hearing more and more about Dizon from Colorado due to the Senior Bowl.  Has anyone seen him play?  Anybody have a good insight?

by fletcherjd on Feb 4, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions  

Where and how to draft?
The issue is an interesting one facing the Bills I must admit from across the country. On the one hand I can't argue with my family in person about whom should be drafted, on the other, it allows me to be more pragmatic and detached about it. Still doesn't prevent me from whipping my DirectTV remote across the room when the Bills cough up a 6 yard run up the middle in the 4th quarter.

I would say the Bills are best served by this priority list:

1- DT: Make a SERIOUS run at Albert Haynesworth, he might be a head case, but he would be our disruptive, pass and run stuffing head case. If we bag him, this drops to number 4 and we find a widebody in FA on the cheap and draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th round whose job is to hunker down and occupy people or knife between them, either works because we need them. Finding a guy to do both is rare. If we don't get Albert, or a fat guy in FA, this is number 1 on the list.

2- CB: Greer while a gamer makes to many mistakes for a supposed "veteran" player. Also Youboty is getting close to being either good, or bad, with him I don't think he'll end up "decent" as a middle ground, he is to hit or miss. Webster and Thomas are OK, as long as they're the dime and nickel backs, in a pinch honestly. We need somebody from one of the pass whacky spread offense conferences who is good at play recognition and being in position, I wish we still had Antoine Winfield since I always felt he was better than Clements. No matter what the Bills do in FA, CB stays in the top two spots either #2 if no big move made in FA for a DT, or #1 if we bag say Albert H.

3 and 3a- OLB and DE: I say kill two birds with one stone, the Giants just spent a small fortune on Justin Tuck, a good move by them. But it does do one thing, leave the cupboard bare for Kawika Mitchell (I may have killed his name, oh well). Now, he isn't an outstanding LB, BUT, he sure as hell can get to the QB when turned loose, and he is a converted DE. He would be perfect to put out on the field in a passing situation to screw with the other team. Who wants him, Schobel, and Denney tearing ass after their QB? Plus he can play with his hand down or in a 2 point stance. This way we get two spots for the price of one since he can play either spot in a pinch.

4 or 5 depending on 3- ILB: The FA market is bare here, like it is every season, but Lance Briggs is the best available. I just don't see the Bills getting into that bidding war as the Pat's will make a run at him after Seau et. all got ABUSED by the Giant's o-line and RBs all game. So we gotta fill this with a lesser person, and actually, the draft has alot of solid guys here who would fill this spot with a little work, especially as I could see Costanza from PSU falling into the 2nd like Posluzny did last year.

5 or 6- I say resign Scott, he showed some flashes of being able to play at the NFL level, and then pick up another kid in the later rounds of the draft. Hopefully some sledge hammer speed missle from a lesser known school would do well here. Those types are actually more available now that the vast majority of teams want ball hawkers first, second, and third on their teams. We have two good starting safety's so we can take a flier on a kid who might need some coaching up (which we do well though our play calling negates alot of that it seems) on how to play the ball in the air. But we DESPERATELY need to get someone who likes to seperate receivers from the ball by planting a shoulder pad in someones kidneys. I am definetly thinking about Wes Welker and Randy Mss here. Welker would need ALOT of convincing to not go over the middle, but if we get a kid who makes someone piss blood after a couple of hits, only he would dare.

So how done was Pat Williams when we let him go again Tommie boy??? Stick a fork in him level right?

by WABillsfan on Feb 5, 2008 5:03 AM EST reply actions  

Back 7
I really think we need a starting WLB (even more than a DE or even a TE).  I think DT is the biggest defensive priority, but WLB is not too far behind.  Between DT, WLB, WR, and TE, I believe two legitimate veteran starters (players well above the Wilford line) need to be signed as free agents or via trade and two projected rookie starters need to be drafted in the first two rounds.  As far as CB, S, and backup MLB go, I view CB as a position that should be upgraded in rounds 3-5 with a player that could compete with Jabari Greer, Ashton Youboty, and Kiwaukee Thomas for the starting/nickel jobs behind Terrence McGee.  Those same rounds of the draft are where I'd be looking for a DE to add to and push the three we already have locked for the next few seasons.  If it's my view of the priority of need for the back 7 that you're asking for, it's:
  1. WLB (big-time, talented starter either via free agency or day one of the draft)
  2. CB (rookie to compete with and push Greer/Youboty/Thomas)
  3. S (re-sign Scott and continue to develop Wendling and Wilson behind Whitner and Simpson)
  4. backup linebackers: I'd re-sign Haggen and team him with DiGiorgio, Wire, and Ellison to make up the backup linebackers for 2008.  Late round picks and rookie free agents should be brought in to push these four for roster spots.
 
Nick (Bensalem, PA)

by Nick BensalemPA on Feb 5, 2008 8:10 AM EST reply actions  

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