Can we stop with the CB and DE talk

by labill on Apr 11, 2008 11:41 AM EDT Comment 24 comments

I just want to vent. I agree that CB or Harvey might present the best value over WR. But we really don't have a choice anymore. Can the Bills start spending a little bit of money, picks and attention on our lousy Offense? I will be upset if we use our 1st rounder on a CB or DE -- they may present better value (even much better), but, unfortunately, we have no choice but to get a WR with the 1st pick because our team has absolutely ignored the Offensive side of the ball this post season. First, to start out with, our defense was much better than our offense last year. Secondly, based on the majority of the season, we have already added for this new season, in addition to Stroud, Johnson, Mitchell and James (why does everyone forget we added a starting caliber CB who was sought after by many teams?), the return of Denny, Simpson, Poz from injuries (pretty much missing the entire year), plus a more experienced McCargo, Youboty, Wilson, Wendling -- and we really haven't lost anyone on defense! Harvey, Carson, DMC, McKelvin, Rivers, etc. may all be great, and we SHOULD have been in a position to draft one of these (much) better value guys, but we chose to get cute with our negotiations with the Panda (I know I will get some grief over this statement, since many are now claiming that we actually were not interested in him (but I seem to recall during those 10 days of his free agency, we were all holding our breath, getting a day-to-day status report checking all the internet reports on whether the Panda was signing with the Bills). Frankly, can you imagine how much we would have loved our draft strategy today had the Bills signed the Panda? Given where we are, what about spending the top picks on the offense (where we had not lost anyone to injuries last year (and was still lousy), where we have not added a single decent body in free agency? Not only do we desperately need a WR, we actually have lost Price (our No.2!) and Aiken without replacing them! I realize that we could "steal" a WR in the 2nd round because, in hindsight, say Hardy or someone falls to us (or Jordy Nelson is really a 1st round quality that only the Bills know about and we grab him in the 3rd round) -- my point is that we don't have that luxury anymore (I wish we did). We can't risk not getting a WR who will help us this year. I say that if we don't love a particular WR at 11, move down to the teens (every team from 12 to 17 are looking desperately at either the 2nd rated OT or RB or Harvey or CB), and draft that WR (Thomas or Sweed) with the number one pick. We have no choice. Oh yeah, by the way, we have Evans signed only for this year! We then have to get a TE by the 3rd round. Sorry for my rambling, but I am getting very concerned (because the Bills do odd things) that OBD might be listening to our Carson/Harvey talk. P.S., I actually love Josh Reed.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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The lack of spaces really lends to the rant thing

If the Bills were to trade down and grab a receiver I would be fine with that. At 11 however, it just doesn't seem to make sense. I agree that this team needs WR help, I just don't want them to leave a great player on the board so that they can reach for a player ho they can get later.

P.S. does Josh know that?

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 11, 2008 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Must Win At All Costs in 2008???

I don't like the idea of "must win in 2008" or else be subject to more coach and roster turnover. I am concerned that the general lack of patience and stability among front offices, coaches, players, and fans around the NFL could be hurting the league. Unfortunately, this type of pressure prevents teams from doing what is best for the long haul. The focus of the draft should not be to get the players that will provide the most immediate impact, but to acquire the best talent and build the roster for the future.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 11, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I can never understand it when a coach gets the ax after 1 season. That never makes sense to me.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 11, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Concept

applies to the Bills also. I don't want to see them surrender to the pressure. I want the Bills to do what is best for the long haul. Take care of the future and the future will take care of the present.

By the way, do you have any comments on my thoughts under Brian's Antoine Cason thread?

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 11, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100%

Our "on the field" team and "off the field" team has really shown they can build a good program. It has yet to be proven if they can build a contender. I would say, that it can take 4 to 5 years before you can filter out the players from the old regime (that don't fit our schemes) and insert players that fit our new regime. I think we are almost there. If we keep up the pace (via draft and FA), we will be a playoff contender this year and a Super Bowl contender the year after. That would be DJ's 4th year.

I just want to thank all the NA-SAYERS, and just wait... the Bills are about to STAMPEDE!!!

by hilliarddavid on Apr 13, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course I agree

I agree completely Ft. Worth but at the same time the future at some point has to become now or else the team you were building for the future becomes old, expensive, and unhappy with losing. I agree 100% that patience is something thats hurting the league but I also feel that part of the building process is having young players mature and grow together. A young WR, one of the top 3, would have the chance to mesh and grow with a young Marshawn Lynch and a young Trent Edwards to set us up to have a perennial playoff level combo for a decade. I believe that taking something like that into consideration can be just as important to team building as acquiring the best talent, don't you?

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 11, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Building

poz,

You do bring up a very good point there at the end. It should definitely be taken into consideration. It depends on what specific players are available to choose from. In general, I don't like comprimising significant talent for significant need.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 11, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't have said it better myself.

by krytime on Apr 11, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just to add more fuel

to the Malcolm Kelly discussion, since we are still discussing WR in this post. Here is what NFL.com had to say about Kelly. Despite his poor 40 time:

"Kelly's performance in other drills was competitive if not better than other top receivers, even if it wasn't up to his usual standards....some scouts had Kelly clocked faster than the time that was officially recorded."

So not only did some scouts clock him in faster, but also in every other drill he was better than other top prospects, ie. Sweed and Thomas, and they still said it wasn't up to his usual standards. Just wait till he gets healthy again and is surrounded by veterans who can shows this boy the ropes of professional football.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 11, 2008 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not much fuel...

Two things to your comments...

First - no matter what happened, it seemed the manner in which he conducted himself didn't speak glowingly of him. Basically, he acted like a turd.

Second - how can you be so sure he will get healthy again? Granted, injuries are a part of the game, and rarely does any athlete play completely healthy (to quote Keith Olberman, "Then again, aren't we all day to day?) But, his injuries past and present should throw up a little red flag to say the least. Every guy whose stock in the draft fell because of a leg injury doesn't end up like Thurman Thomas - he's one of the exceptions to that. When it comes to injuries, if there's smoke, there may be a little bit of fire...

by krytime on Apr 11, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

turd haha

I will agree with your point that he did act like a turd. great way to put it.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 11, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

hey kry...have you seen the episode yet? what'd you think?

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 12, 2008 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant to get back to you on that..

Awesome. Hilarious. So wrong on so many levels. I can't say I'd put it in my top five, but is surely up there. Cheating, Mr. Garrison, Mr. Cartmenez. Where do I stop?

by krytime on Apr 12, 2008 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

glad to hear you enjoyed it. Mr.Cartmentez....ridiculous.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 12, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I missed it

and the Utube link does not work. Any idea when it will be on again?

by Joe P. on Apr 12, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey joe

I know my roommate uses the website www.allsp.com to watch episodes. I don't know how they do it but if you go there you can watch any episode ever, no charge. Click season twelve and then just scroll down to the newest episode.

It's not delivery, It's DiGiorgio!

by poz on Apr 12, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you can watch them all

at comedycentral.com

This is the link that you are directed to from there. Click full episodes and have at it.

by Kurupt on Apr 12, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Back to the point

labill,

You are right in that Buffalo needs to come away with starting caliber offensive help from this draft, specifically WR, C and TE. C can wait until the 3rd round or possibly 4th but WR and TE must be addressed earlier so let's drop it from discussion for the moment. That leaves Buffalo with the need for starting caliber WR and TE in, say, the first 3 rounds. (Naturally, the team could find a Colston in round 7 but what are the odds?)

You are, however, overestimating Buffalo's defensive capabilities. Denney and Kelsay are clearly second tier guys. A better DE would certainly be useful. James may have been sought after but he chose Buffalo because it was the one place where he had an actual chance at starting. Think about that. He knew he wasn't good enough to challenge for a starting role anywhere but Buffalo. That's all you need to know about the CB situation.

So, Buffalo could go DE/CB, WR, TE, C if each of those 4 players can step in immediately.

Ron

by Ron From NM on Apr 11, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kelly should be a Bill

If anything, this front office has made the point of saying ": We like said player, and we will take that player no matter what"
They no they have the 11th overall pick, and if someone comes a knocking for it and they can still take Kelly, they will trade.
However, they desire MK, and if there is a risk of losing him, Buffalo will take him at 11, all the analysts will be up in arms, but we will have our guy. Then we will take Flowers or Cason as the next pick, and then best TE available after that.

There you have it, the holes are filled, and who cares here you pick'em if you they become high producing players.
Losman, McGahee, those are moves only a mother could love, and frankly, this Buffalo office is not doing anything like that again, so Kelly at 11, is fine. He is the best all around receiver and he is a perfect compliment to Evans. Put Parrish in the slot( or Reed) and get that receiving TE from the 3rd or even 2nd round to play possession and you have an upcoming offense. Did I mention Lynch with the FB lleading the way and the massive O-line in their second year together? Improvgement is on the horizon. Don't worry

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 11, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pick at 11

I haven't heard anything yet that says OBD will change their mind abouit the 11 pick. I would not take Kelly (or any other WR) at 11, but the Bills? Kelly seems to me to be a great possession receiver. A great chain mover. And he looks it. I don't mind his frustration at all. Understandable. A possession chain mover who is a super target like Kelly is a very good compliment to Evans.

If OBD goes either DE or CB with 11 (Cason is fine, or Harvey), then I hope they can get Bennett in the 2nd. Hopefully, Nelson will be there in the 3rd. Nelson and Bennett would be fine. Just don't know if Nelson will be there for us in the third. I really like Bennett and we have to get him in the 2nd.

If I understand Geronimo correctly, value is a big deal to OBD at 11. Yet they also want Kelly. Hopefully we will find out more on OBD's thoughts about Kelly after pro day. So it's trade down but, if they aren't scared off, it will be Kelly. I would go Cason or Harvey at this point. But I would NOT let Bennett get away.

I agree our secondary is sub-par. McGee is fine but the rest of the CB's are not. Also agree Denny and Kelsay are average at best. What a fluid situation! Does Modrak ever get ulcers?

by keuka121 on Apr 11, 2008 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

DE first next year

They spent on FAs in the offseason on defense

Last year, we spent on FAs for the O-Line and didn't draft anyone. We courted RBs, but then drafted Lynch.

This year, we spent on D, so no 1st rd on Defense, and we will take our WR, and now maybe even by trading down.

But I think Kelly is worth #11 money for five years. By that time it will be low money and he will be producing well for us.

If we trade with Philly as some suggest, we are gold for Kelly and then whoever else we covet, so we could trade up with the extra pick, or whatever we have, if we need to get someone else relatively high.

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 12, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2007 draft and FA

I don't really get your point about last offseason.

They spent on offense in 2007 and then drafted an offensive player in the first round. There was a lot of speculation last draft that the Bills would have taken Patrick Willis if he was still available, so I doubt the Bills had a specific plan in place to go either offense or defense in the first round.

The Bills used the 43 and 74 picks in the draft last year to acquire Poz and took Wendling in the 6th.

They took Lynch, Edwards and Wright in the first, third and fourth rounds. They didn't have a fifth round pick.

The Bills draft was very balanced last season and I expect much of the same this season. Then again, they did only draft one defensive player in 2005 (Eric King 5th Rd) and they only took defensive players in 2006 until Terrance Pennington in the 7th Rd.

by kaisertown on Apr 12, 2008 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More specific

They addressed O-line in the offseason that only eliminates O-line.

We did not address the other position groups on the roster with any top money free agents.

This year, we will not draft a DT or LB in the high rounds, that is a definite.

CB I could see, but not DE because, with the upgrades at the DT position, they can see if the money thrown at Shoebel and Kelsay was worth it, and if having strong DTs doesn't free them up, then we will draft a DE high, maybe first, next year. This year just a situational starter in later rds.

Last year, much like this year, there was a glaring need at RB, but now it is WR.
We will take the best WR we can get in the draft, just like we did lsat year with RB (Peterson of course gone) except this year we can take the very best WR, whoever they think that is.

AS for CB, we got a FA, who could be pretty good, but no one high caliber, and that could be just a stop gapper as we see how fast a low 1st or high 2nd round CB, like Flowers lets say, can develop his first year. Some guys like Poz start right away, where a guy like McCargo takes a couple years.
Then the Bills draft for best available while picking up a TE and FB along the way for the Offense, and probably another WR.

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 12, 2008 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's someone's view

of the latest reevaluated draft pick trade valuation trade chart, taking into account the rediculous contracts being signed by the 1st few picks. It values the 11th pick at 1,320 points and really, under this chart, makes it obvious that a mid-1st and 3rd rounder is a perfect match. As examples, since Detroit (say, OT or Mendellhall) and Minnesota (OT or Harvey) are two very good possibilities, it tells us that if we move down about 4 spots in the 1st round with Detroit, we could get their 1st (15 pick) and 3rd (76 pick) -- but that favors the Bills a little bit (only by 30 points); move down 6 picks with Minnesota, at get their 1st (17 pick) and 3rd (they have two -- 73 pick) -- that favors Minnesota (only by 25 points).

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/

By the way, it really shows what I thought about last year -- we gave up a lot in the 2nd round (moving up maybe 8 spots), even under this revised chart, to get Poz (we gave our own 2nd round a little later and our early 3rd rounder to Detroit).

by labill on Apr 15, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs