Player types, part four: Potential Bills Cornerbacks

by Kurupt on Apr 11, 2008 2:00 PM EDT in 2010 NFL Draft

Antoine Cason can contribute immediately, but do the Bills need that? (Jake Lacey, The Wildcat Online)

Today we conclude our four-part series examining the types of players, rather than specific players, that the Buffalo Bills may target during the draft. The aim of these articles has been to try to come to a consensus on what type of player the Bills should be looking to add to the roster. Today's position: Cornerback. Should the Bills add a player who can come in and play right away? Where will we address this position?

CORNERBACK: Do we need an immediate impact, or can we let a player develop?

With pretty decent depth at the position we may be able to pick up a developmental prospect while sticking with what we've got on the field. However, none of the players we have is going to be confused with Champ Bailey or even Nate Clements. It may be wise to finally bring in a top flight CB again, one who is going to see a lot of action early on. If that doesn't happen, we can get by with our current quartet assuming continued improvement out of Youboty and Greer and good health out of McGee and James. We do need a 5th CB, though, that player can be a high upside CB who can "watch and learn".

Early Impact CB's:

Early Rounds: Leodis McKelvin (Troy), Aqib Talib (Kansas), Mike Jenkins (South Florida), Brandon Flowers (Virginia Tech), Antoine Cason (Arizona), Tracy Porter (Indiana), Terrell Thomas (USC), Tyvon Branch (UConn)

Mid/Late Rounds: Chevis Jackson (LSU), Dwight Lowery (San Jose State), Trae Williams (South Florida), Jack Williams (Kent State), Marcus Walker (Oklahoma)

Developmental CB's:

Early Rounds: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Tennessee State), Justin King (Penn State), Charles Godfrey (Iowa), Patrick Lee (Auburn)

Mid/Late Rounds: Orlando Scandrick (Boise State), Antwaun Molden (Eastern Kentucky), Zack Bowman (Nebraska), Jack Ikegwuonu (Wisconsin), Terrence Wheatley (Colorado), Darnell Terrell (Missouri)

All right, have at it. What type of CB do you think the Bills will fill their need with? Who is the player you think the need should be filled with?

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Comments

Starter

If we go CB in the 1st, you have to pick a guy who can come in and start right away. A guy who fits the system better than any other first round CB prospect.

To me that's Antoine Cason. I know we all want to get him in the 2nd, and hope and pray that he falls that far. But you can't look at it that way. If you like someone, you gotta go out and get him. We could very well end up with Cason in the 1st, and Kelly in the 2nd.

Cason fits the Bill (no pun intended)perfectly to play a cover-2 corner in our system. He is physical at the line, supports the run very well, he's not a blazer but he excels in zone coverage, and he's got size to matchup with the bigger receivers in the red zone. He is also the most polished out of the group, he started 4 years in college. He is the most NFL ready CB in this draft. It makes too much sense almost. I have yet to find a reason why he isn't ranked as high as the famous 4 in this year's draft.

by Renegade23 on Apr 11, 2008 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

Tough choice

With the Depth at both WR & CB and such a high pick, I think we need to stop looking at need and maybe grabbing a guy who will be available at 11 that could be an amazing addittion.

A Top flight DE - like Harvey, who could be a stud!

A Top flight LB like Rivers (who might make Crowell expendable) or at least make our LB Corps amazing

A stud guard like we once had in Reuben Brown... You can never have enough quality O-lineman

Or even Ryan Clady, why reach for a WR or CB when you can get equal value in the 3rd and 4th rounds

by DC Fan on Apr 11, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions

Cornerbacks

In my opinion, this is an unusually good draft for cornerbacks. Some quality and quantity. A lot of different types to choose from. I want the Bills to draft a cornerback with the ability to excel in man coverage that can also develop into a more complete cornerback. I like Cromartie, McKelvin, Jenkins, Molden, and King. Flowers and Branch are very interesting. Flowers plays with intent.

For anyone that did not see my previous post, here are my thoughts on drafting Antoine Cason and the Bills defense/cornerbacks in general:

I realize the Bills use the Cover 2 scheme as their base defense. However, I don't understand why exclusively fitting this scheme is of such paramount consideration. In my opinion, Marcus Stroud and Kavika Mitchell are not exclusive fits. Stroud is a defensive tackle with the ability to hold his ground and control 2 gaps in the line, while Mitchell is a linebacker with tackling ability and who is not the typical "space" weakside linebacker for this scheme. THESE TWO "MISFITS" MAKE FOR GREAT ACQUISITIONS. Adding players with the talent to excel in any scheme or adding players with different abilities improves team versatility, which improves chances at achieving success. Why limit our player interest to those players that only fit a particular scheme? Let's hope for greater things.

In my opinion, great cornerbacks must be able to cover. I'm not sure if Cason's great instincts will be able to compensate for his inability to run, change directions, and close windows. If not, then he will be limited to playing zone coverage with safety help over the top in the NFL. The problem with that is playing zone will not always be to the Bills' advantage versus every opponent, in every situation, or individual matchup. Sure, they can try to play man coverage, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. If they have the ability to excel in man or zone, then they can keep opposing offenses guessing and do all sorts of different things with the safeties, flexibility, etc. If you want the Bills to be limited to playing only zone coverage, then have at it. Personally, I hate limitations.

If Cason is comparable to Al Harris, then I would consider Cason to be a borderline first round prospect, not a borderline top-10 prospect. While Harris is a good cornerback, I can easily think of 10 current NFL cornerbacks that I would prefer over Harris. I wouldn't draft Harris at #11, and I am not even sure that Cason is as good as Harris.

Cason really sounds like a great person who does great things in the community. However, I think the Bills fans' percieved "character requirement" is getting a little overblown. It's not like the Bills have a locker room full of cancers, domestic violence, and troubled talents that need an infusion of good citizen boy scouts at the expense of talent. If anything, the Bills are the total opposite. The Bills have already established a strong locker room with a program that talented additions will buy into. I'm not saying to go after Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Aquib Talib, or Mario Manningham. That's the other extreme. I'm just saying that new acquisitions don't have to be perfect souls. Find a balance. While character is a great thing, I don't think the Bills need to or should comprimise talent for character.

I do like Cason's ability to jam and press receivers, his instincts, and great ball skills. His character is a plus. Would I be shocked if the Bills draft Cason, DeSean Jackson, or Brian Brohm? Hardly. After recent drafts that included Willis McGahee, Roscoe Parrish, Donte Whitner, and Trent Edwards, I am immune to draft day shock. By now, we all should be.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 11, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

I don't understand...

... how you can like Flowers, but not Cason. Cason is a much better pro prospect because he combines Flowers' physicality (though admittedly Flowers is more physical) with top-notch intangibles and ball skills. You mentioned Cason's "lack of speed" (if you can call 4.48 a lack of speed) as a concern for you, but Flowers ran in the 4.6 range at the Combine. I really like Flowers, and I believe that the Bills do too, but Cason is clearly a superior prospect.

Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Apr 11, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

"Interesting"

I stated that Flowers is very interesting. His toughness and physicality jumps off the screen. I think that Flowers is more interesting (not necessarily a better prospect) than Cason because he would add a special dimension of toughness and physicality to a defense that could use it.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 11, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Some thoughts

"I think the Bills fans' percieved "character requirement" is getting a little overblown."

You worded that perfectly and I totally agree. The guys in the draft are all aged 21-24 and there are going to be some spoiled and immature players that have so much talent that you can't overlook them. The Bills can handle some knuckleheads if they are harmless. Marshawn Lynch is an example of a player who sounds really immature. He is a goofball who is always laughing and his speech is ridled with slang. He was considered somewhat of a character risk going into the draft. The Bills noticed that he had a good understanding of a team concept and had a good work ethic. They wisely dismissed concerns about character and drafted a great player.

Marcus Stroud is a perfect fit for the Bills tampa 2 defense. I don't know why everyone assumes he is a huge run-stuffing DT (I'm not saying that you are assuming that). At 306 pounds he is actually lighter than Kyle Williams and John McCargo. Even Melvin Fowler, despite his lack of strength, weighs more than Stroud at 310 pounds. Stroud is also 4 inches taller than McCargo and 5 inches taller than Williams. His height makes him noticeably less balky than McCargo and Williams. Stroud can control 2 gaps, but that is mostly because of how quick he is off the snap. He uses his long arms to get into a guards body and establish control immediately, driving him into the backfield. He can actually struggle to maintain leverage sometimes whichs leads to him not always being a stout DT. If a guard gets him out of position, Stroud can get pushed around a little.

"I don't understand why exclusively fitting this scheme is of such paramount consideration."

That isn't a consideration at all. Kawika Mitchell, who you mention, should prove that it doesn't matter what kind of player he is as long as he fits the general concept of the D enough to improve the team. Kyle Williams isn't a fit for the tampa 2 either, but the Bills saw that he was great value. Jabari Greer is small and not overly physical, yet he still won the CB job last season.

If you remove the word "exclusively" from that phrase it makes much more sense and the answer should be obvious. The Bills play a tampa 2 defense and are looking for the best players in that system, regardless of their abilities in other schemes. The Bills would draft a CB who is a 9 out of 10 in zone coverage, but only a 3 in man over a CB who is a 7 out of 10 against both zone and man.

I think there are many advantages to evaluating players based on the specific ways you plan on using them. The biggest advantage is value. Players like Flowers or Chevis Jackson are much better in zone than in man so they will go much later in the draft than they would if everyone played a cover 2 scheme.

Another thing I like about using the same basic scheme on every play is the team concept I believe it creates. Players really learn their roles when they get to do the same thing on every play. Players get to practice the same basic things every day until they get very good at them. Practice breeds confidence and despite the Bills lack of talent and experience on defense they seemed like a very confident unit.

I like Antoine Cason, but I don't think his ability to jam WRs at the line is all that impressive. He has some toughness and it shows in his ability to help in run defense, but he needs some work on jamming. His problem there might be mental because he doesn't have the athletic ability to turn and recover if he is beat at the line. That is just speculating though and most young corners struggle to jam effectively. He should be good at it in time.

I think Al Harris is a decent comparison, but Cason has better ball skills and is more aggressive going for the pick. Would you draft Al Harris at 11 if he had 6 or 7 picks a year instead of 2 or 3? I certainly would, although that is somewhat of a best case scenario.

by kaisertown on Apr 11, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Reply

I am glad that somebody agrees with me about the character thing.

Most defensive linemen in Cover 2 defenses are strictly one gap penetrators. Stroud is different and unique in his ability to play one gap or two gap, which is great because he adds versatility to the Bills' defense. Also, comparing weights can be deceiving. Strength and sometimes how the weight is distributed are more important than just the listed weight. Furthermore, listed weights are not always accurate or playing weights, especially for linemen, whose weight often fluctuates. However, I do understand your general point.

In terms of player evaluation, do you think the Bills should comprimise significant talent for scheme fit? If not, then we are in agreement. I think DRC is a good example. While DRC is not a great tackler, his rare talent in so many other areas is too great to pass up, in my opinion. His tackling can always be coached up and improved.

You bring up some good points about always playing the same scheme. I am aware of some other good benefits, too. However, I stand by my belief in team versatility with the ability to adapt to your advantage for the best chance at consistent success. Changes are likely to arise along the way, and if you can't adjust, you won't succeed.

If you draft a player at #11 overall, he better be something special. I don't think that Al Harris, even if he did have a few more interceptions, is that type of player.

How good do you want the Bills to be?

by Fort Worth on Apr 12, 2008 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Great Player

I agree with Brian that Cason is a great player, period. Cover 2 or not, Cason is going to excel as a CB in the NFL.

A good character player implies that the player has the potential to play over and beyond his physical attributes. As in, some players "play big". IMO, this "potential" can be compared to the "potential" of what you see in DRC. But the physical potential is more likely not turn out in the right way.

Bills fan half way around the world

by moncheri on Apr 12, 2008 4:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Malcom Kelly

This is a great site. Never been able to be at most games, co-own two Ace Hardware stores. Now, by next year, I will have a 14X16 room equipped with an NEC CRT projector. 124in diagonal. Speakers are Pioneer HPM 1500's. That's as there as I can be. The best part is I get to live on Keuka Lake.

Please, a word on Malcom Kelly. That 40 time is, if you want a speedy runner, painfully slow. Let's see. At 40 yds, .25 sec by my measure is about 1 1/2 steps. That is separation. Malcom is not built for that. He does a slower, more deliberate thing very well. If we're running a 3 step drop primarily, Kelly could well have a quick impact. He will outgrab most everything in the under 15yd range. He is such an awesome target with his velcro hands that you must look his way every play. His style and Trent's fit well. The injury history is a biggie for me. He needs to learn to play another down. Lee goes fast. Malcom and Bennett move the chains. I look at our 1st down production and I see a need for chain movers. Malcom is that and more. A real WR run blocker! Big bonus. Ideally, Lee sees the advantage in this balance. When I look at the Bill's view, they want to establish a better balance. Question is, how far with offense will they go? Lot of movement in the mocks lately.

by keuka121 on Apr 11, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply actions

Forgot to mention

Kelly and Bennett also have good YAC. So does Thomas. I see Thomas as more streaky. Kelly as more steady.

by keuka121 on Apr 11, 2008 8:43 PM EDT reply actions

Jackson

I'm sorta an offensive person, at least for the first couple rounds... Unless someone head and shoulders above the pack, drops to us... That said, I've watched Chevis Jackson, and man, can he play... Yes, terrible "timed" speed for a corner... But great football speed and knows who to stick to a receiver like glue... Also excells at run support.. He and Taylor, de/lb out of UGA are my picks for mid round defensive steals...

by Cinga on Apr 11, 2008 10:23 PM EDT reply actions

Not bad idea, but...

Being a 2-3 year starter at LSU is an accomplishment in itself... He's got a decent body and plays really physical... but that combine 40 time... disappointing... and prob too slow for a safety, much less a corner.

Yeah, we've all seen him play tons b/c all of LSU's games are televise nationally (so unfair btw).. he plays much faster than his 40 time, and the scouts know that too... but... it means he'll prob be knocked down to the 4th round imho...

if he gets to the 5th round, I think he would be a steal for us.

by osmanBAE on Apr 11, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I love both those guys

Chevis Jackson would be a good pick in the third round and a steal any time after. His forty time is awful, but irrelevant. His 10 yard splits of 1.5 at the combine and 1.56 at his pro day are good enough to be effective in zone coverage. He had a 10'05'' broad jump at the combine, which isn't impressive, but shows adequate explosion as well.

I'n gonna assume you meant Marcus Howard the 237 pound DE/LB out of Georgia. He is very explosive and could play a role as a pass rusher on obvious pass situations and be a backup linebacker as well. His special teams potential is through the roof. He is a strange prospect and it is difficult to predict where he might get drafted. Sometimes a player's draft stock can actually be hurt by that much versatility. He could go anywhere between rounds 2 and 5. I think he would be a nice pick in the fourth round, but I have this feeling someone is going to fall in love with him as a blitzing LB in a blitz heavy 4-3 scheme (philly, NYG, seatle) and take him in the third round.

by kaisertown on Apr 11, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Howard

Yes, I stand corrected... Brain fart!!! LOL!!! I meant Marcus Howard... And couldn't agree more with your evaluation on him, and Jackson..

by Cinga on Apr 12, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Cinga!!!!!

How the hell are you, my friend. Glad you found this site too. Have you found out anything on our favorite Bulldog center, Velasco?

by Joe P. on Apr 12, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Hey Joe P!!!

Thought that was you!! 365 p!ssed me off w/their change, so came over here... Been reading, but not posting for about eight or nine months now..
As for Valesco... Nothing new really, but will check out some more... If or when, I get some "insider" info, I'll pass it along... But remember my friend, I'm biased in wanting the Bills to get this guy... But honestly think, he'd cure our interior offensive line depth woes this year, and replace Fowler, if not this year, next for sure...Definitely a "Ron From NM" type center....
Being up the street from UGA, I can tell you there's alot of excitement among Alumni, over the Stroud trade... One guy in particular, that I work with, still stays in touch with Marcus, and he's probably more excited about the move, than even we, the fans are... Caution to fans on Stroud though... Nothing bad, but don't expect a flamboyant monster... He'll do his community work, without the cameras and press around...Entering the field before a game, he'll be the last out of the tunnel... He won't jump up and down, or hoot and holler between plays... But he'll be what we expect during plays.... A monster... Bet on it... And yes, he's 100% healthy...
I've seen you and Ron here... What about others??? Saw one post from ole pal Doomed as well... Do others have aliases??? Or are they lost on 365???

by Cinga on Apr 13, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

There are a few old friends here

I see you bumped into Ron, and he has done his usual great job. Doomed did not last long, but is back on RF365. I am sure there have been a few others I am forgetting, no Mike S. though. Great to hear about Stroud. Nothing better that a ticked off ProBowl DT with something to prove. Another guy I like at C is Doug Legursky. I have not seen much tape on this guy, but I like what I have read, plus he can long snap. I hope we grab him or Velasco in the 7th round. Great to hear from you. Semper Fidelis !!!

by Joe P. on Apr 13, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah..

I like Legersky too... And Pollack... But taking our guru's word, we need power on the interior line... And IMHO, Valesco is the "man"... With Richards a decent consolation prize... But Valesco will never last till the 7th... If we can get him in the 4th, I'd be tickled... Anything later, he's the biggest steal of the draft... But honestly, I think he goes in rds 2 or 3.... Too much potential...

by Cinga on Apr 13, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I would agree, but

no one I have found is talking about him going earlier than round 6. The only reason I can think of is he only has one year experience at center.

by Joe P. on Apr 13, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Doesn't matter to me

I don't really care how much a CB can contribute this season. As average as Greer is, it would have to be a pretty impressive rookie season to really upgrade the position.

The Bills need to draft whoever is going to be the best player in 2 years. It is important to consider that more polished players are less likely to bust though.

I wouldn't consider Dwight Lowery to be an early impact guy. I think he is going to struggle adjusting to the speed of the NFL. He has below average speed and change of direction that didn't hurt him against the weak level of competition he played against. He will need some work on his technique as a pro, especially as a tackler.

by kaisertown on Apr 12, 2008 2:09 AM EDT reply actions

Flowers

I started thinking about what Geronimo said and I wouldn't be suprised or disappointed if they trade down and take Flowers.Having two 2nd round picks would give the team option of taking WR an TE.

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions

Flowers

I could certainly get to like that scenario...just as long as this Flowers doesn't wilt like the Flowers we picked in the 1st round of the 2000 draft!

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Apr 15, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions