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Malcolm Kelly Flops; Where Does Buffalo Turn?

WR Thomas should shoot up draft boards with Kelly dropping (AP Photo)

As a draft prospect that has for an entire off-season been linked to the Buffalo Bills, Oklahoma wide receiver Malcolm Kelly did his best to burn part of that bridge today, as he worked out for the first time in front of scouts at Oklahoma's Pro Day.

Or maybe it was Oklahoma itself burning the bridge.

Kelly ran a disappointing 4.68 second 40-yard dash on Wednesday, part of a workout that leaves the player's first-round prospects in serious doubts. Kelly's 32-inch vertical leap left something to be desired as well; though reports have indicated that Kelly looked solid in positional drills, the soon-to-be-rookie was less than thrilled with his performance.

The problem is, Kelly didn't put the blame on himself. That was laid directly on the shoulders of his alma mater. In a move that can be construed to be "me-first", Kelly blamed Oklahoma officials for his poor performing after the venue for the workouts were switched without Kelly's knowledge Wednesday morning.

It is difficult for an NFL Draft prospect to slide too much in today's NFL based on one workout. NFL teams, especially the Bills, base the majority of their scouting on game film. Still, this was a monumentally disastrous day for Kelly, and for a player considered a reach at #11 before he fell flat on his face, this does nothing for his chances of achieving that honor.

Who Becomes the First-Round Favorite?
Let's make two things clear right off the bat: it was highly debatable whether Kelly deserved to be Buffalo's first-round pick before today, and the likelihood of Kelly slipping very far on Buffalo's draft board is minimal. There's still a very good chance that Kelly is drafted by Buffalo; the chances of that happening in the first round, however, are lower than ever.

Many will claim that a trade down in the first round is the best route for Buffalo, and for now, I'll agree with them. But trades are very difficult to pull off on draft day, and it will be made more difficult this year as the NFL transitions from a 15-minute choice period to a 10-minute period this year. So let's assume that the Bills are forced to choose at #11. With Kelly seemingly out of the picture, where do the Bills look? Below are the four players that I believe to have the best shot at being Buffalo's top pick come April, order specified:

1. Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State - MSU's explosive receiver and kick returner (for one season, at any rate) has been on Buffalo's radar for quite some time now. With Kelly's stock slipping on boards league wide, Thomas' stock by default rises. If the Bills want to secure the one player most likely to become their top WR prospect should Kelly fall (they're reportedly not interested in Limas Sweed, and 11 is far too high for James Hardy), they'll need to do it here. It's even risky expecting to be able to trade back up into the first round.

I fully expect Thomas to be the team's top target, whether or not he's selected at 11. There's a chance that the team drafts a non-WR at eleven and immediately look to move back up, much like they did with Paul Posluszny last year after drafting Marshawn Lynch. Thomas is the one receiver that can make an immediate impact outside of Kelly; it's now almost imperative that the Bills find a way to lock Thomas up.

2. Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona: Call this another one of my crazy gut feelings if you like, but Cason has "Donte Whitner" written all over him. The stigma of supposedly poor straight-line speed is dropping Cason's draft stock, but he ran a 4.48 at the Combine - very good speed for a Cover 2 corner. Cason is a smart, tough player and has outstanding intangibles and leadership skills. He's also a playmaker, as he possesses great hands and excellent ball skills. He's the type of player that defenses are built around. This is completely guesswork on my part, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear after April that Cason was one of Buffalo's top two rated corners.

3. Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida: The Buccaneers, pioneers of the Tampa 2 defense, are enamored with Jenkins. He's fast, aggressive, tough, and will be at his best in the NFL as a Cover 2 corner. His speed is slightly better than Cason's (4.4), but his ball skills are not as great and he's more of a liability against the run. Jenkins would definitely be a fit in Buffalo, but again, I'll reiterate: I truly believe that Cason ranks higher on Buffalo's board.

4. Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida: A favorite of the Buffalo Rumblings community for a number of months, Harvey would provide excellent value at #11 were he to still be available. He is a slightly better athlete than Virginia's Chris Long (though he lacks the intangibles of Long) and is slightly more well-rounded than Ohio State's Vernon Gholston at this point (though he's not explosive). He has the ability to claim a starting spot from Chris Kelsay by season's end, but two big questions linger: How serious are the Bills in upgrading their DE position? Does Harvey have enough "football smarts" and instincts to be a truly dominant player at the next level?

So there they are. The four players who are, in my opinion, most likely to be targeted by Buffalo on draft day. Discuss - and add names if you like.

0 recs | Comment 79 comments

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Sweed
Does anyone know (not just have some gut feeling or speculation to offer) why the Bills have reportedly cooled so completely on Sweed?

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 7:34 PM EDT   0 recs

It's because of
Geronimo. He reported it earlier this month and confirmed it yesterday.
Create a free account to join in the discussion, Bills fans!

by Brian Galliford on Apr 9, 2008 7:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sweed et all
I too am diappointed with Kelly's numbers today. I am not sure though what the ramifications are. It was never made clear to me what the issues are with their opinions on Sweed. They had Thomas #2 on their WR list--before today. I do know that if McKelvin dropped to 11 that will be the pick-but I and OBD don't think that is ever going to happen--hence my post the other day that it was clearly going to be Kelly. As to the rest of the corners, other than their fondness for Flowers, I do not know how they are ranked after McKelvin.  As to DRC-this is MY opinion not OBD's--I do not see it at all. Not our kind of corner.

The net of it all? I have NO idea what will happen now but hope to make a full report prior to the draft.  I still think though, barring a trade down, it will be a WR or CB--take your pick.
99% sure on that.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 9, 2008 10:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why isn't Harvey
part of the conversation?  Does OBD feel we don't need a DE that bad? Or do they just not like Harvey?

by Joe P. on Apr 9, 2008 10:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Flowers
may not last till the 2nd, much less 41.  Any chance the Bills reach a bit to make sure they get him?
Limas would be a Sweed pick at 11. :) So would Harvey.

by Kumario! on Apr 14, 2008 6:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A quick thought....
It just occurred to me--with the 40 yd. numbers today--would Kelly project as a Keyshawn Johnson type #2? I know Keyshawn was pretty quick when he first came out of USC--but in his salad days--he was extremely efrective (think red zone) and likley never caught a ball farther than 18 yards downfield. Great blocker too. Would you guys settle for that at #11? Just a thought.  
Geronimo

by Geronimo on Apr 9, 2008 10:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No to Me-Shawn
He wasn't ever really a great WR.  Stats don't say it all, but look at 'em anyway...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnKe00.htm

Now, don't get me wrong; I'd love to have these career numbers from the #11 spot this year, if that's the direction they went.

But, does Kelly really seem to be the guy that will deliver these numbers?  If you ask me, I don't think so.

Again, I ask, why is everyone so adamant that picking a WR at #11 is the way to go?  This year, there simply is no value in a pick like that.

by krytime on Apr 10, 2008 2:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The question was
WHY do the Bills not show interest in Sweed.  I've heard a couple times now the statement that the Bills aren't enamored with him, but I can't reason WHY they possibly could not be.  Harvey then Sweed top my board.
Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sweed
has to be in the discussion.Even if they're saying they don't like him,maybe a little misinformation on the bills part?

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 9, 2008 7:38 PM EDT   0 recs

But why?
I missed where Geronimo said why the Bills have cooled on Sweed.

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 7:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Why...
I don't think Geronimo ever mentioned the why part.  I hope he comes back in the next few days and adds anything he can to it.  I'm baffled that they would have NO interest in Sweed. He's as good as any WR in this draft and doesn't have the concerns that Kelly now has....
~K

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 7:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Missed it also
but I think he makes the most sense if they truly value tape more than combine.

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 9, 2008 7:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually
I think Sweed outperformed expectations at the combine.  Speed was a huge question for him and he ran a 4.48 at the combine and a 4.5 at his pro day.  I was expecting a 4.55 or slower.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 8:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like all four
though I'm not high on Jenkins. I would be pretty unhappy if he was our #11 pick.

I love Cason, LOVE him. I love the skills he brings to a team....solid tackling, good coverage skills, return ability and overall playmaking skills. He's just a solid all-around football player. I'm not sure he's talented enough to be considered a borderline top 10 pick, BUT he sure is good enough to play up to that.  I also think Cason rates pretty high on the Bills board, mostly because I don't think DRC, Jenkins or Talib do. He'd be an excellent fit for our D and I'd love to have a guy of such high character on our team.  If we take him, I hope we are able to trade down a bit first. I think most teams will have McKelvin, DRC and Jenkins pretty high on their boards. Talib will be on some boards as well. I think Cason fits a cover 2 best, but he does have the ability to play in any D.

I'm still concerned about Thomas being ready to start from day 1. That's my major concern with him, along with route running, that makes me think(/hope?) we go elsewhere in round 1.

And as most of you know, Derrick Harvey...I've oooonnly got eyes for yoooooouuuuuu.... He's looking better and better for us at #11, eh boys?  

~K

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 7:50 PM EDT   0 recs

The Bills
like football players. Kelly is one of the most competitive players (not just of the receivers) in this draft. Maybe Sweed is not as aggressive or competitive as Sweed. I don't know. But Kelly got raving reviews for his run blocking and I'm sure the Bills were impressed with that aspect of his game. Sweed is a 2nd round prospect to me anyways. If Dwayne Jarrett goes in the 2nd round, why the heck would a guy like Sweed go before a guy like Jarrett, who has unbelievable hands and production?

What gets you guys excited about Sweed anyways? He's one of the most vanilla prospects in this draft.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Apr 9, 2008 7:56 PM EDT   0 recs

Don't forget
Josh Reed, coming out of college, and even now, has a reputation for being a good run blocking WR...

With the way he is bagged around here, I find it funny that this is an important trait in a potential WR...

by krytime on Apr 10, 2008 2:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah
that is what we need with our #11 pick, a slow WR who is good at run blocking.  What, have you already purchased your Kelly jersey, or are you planning on recycling?  He is not going to be wearing #12 you know!!!!!!

by Joe P. on Apr 9, 2008 8:14 PM EDT   0 recs

Don't worry about Kelly because he will be gone
His little outburst has made him a lock to be picked by the Bengals at #9.  Ha!!!

by Joe P. on Apr 9, 2008 8:25 PM EDT   0 recs

Am I going to be the only anti-Thomas guy again?
Disclosure: I only saw 4 MichSt games in 07 and 2or3 games in 06... then again, Devin really only "showed up" in '07.  I have seen all of his KORs during those games and his PRs during the BC game (when he did both!).

Why not Thomas? Great combine, team MVP, but he doesn't play like the #1 WR in the draft...basically my opinion is based on his film... he looks identical to Manningham in terms of game speed and moves and looks like a 4.5 40 guy... (see he Mich/MichSt game), and with a 28" vert, is unacceptable for a red-zone threat. Much of his success is b/c of very accurate QB (Hoyer) and dangerous TE, Kellen Davis. Plus, he's not much of a run blocker.

However, he is a GREAT return man... when given space.... man, seriously, i've never seen the gunner even touch him... and averages 30yrd/return (#9 in NCAA).

STATS===
Year  GP  Rec  Yds   YPC   TD
2006  10  6      90  15.0   1
2007  13  79   1260  15.9   8

Thomas vs world:
Thomas (6'2,215,4.40,28")
Kelly (6'4,224,4.68,32")-pro day
Kelly (6'4,224,4.54,38")-school measurements
Sweed (6'4,215,4.46,35")
Jackson (5'10,169,4.35,34")

Avg WR at Combine (6'0,203,4.51,32")
Avg vert for all combine including lineman (30")

-->Opinion: If Kelly's proday was not a fluke, then we trade our #11... its the smart thing to do.  If forced to pick #11, I'd pick Sweed, McKelvin, or Harvey.. pretty equal on all three.

by osmanBAE on Apr 9, 2008 8:30 PM EDT   0 recs

Thomas' vertical
33"

If you're going to list Kelly's school measurements, then at least give Thomas' pro day numbers!!

You listed a bunch of positives for Thomas but say you are against him.  I think that's what you were saying, at least.

Again, I can't really hold his "one year wonder" status against him. Nobody here knows why he didn't get much time in his first year.  Maybe he wasn't ready to contribute right out of his JuCo or didn't pick up on the playbook right away? I've read that once the new coach was brought in before this past year, he made it a priority to get Thomas more involved, which I think is a pretty good indication of his talents.  The only concern I have with him is if he's ready to contribute immediately, which is what we need out of our WR draftee(s).

~K

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 8:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm just saying he shouldn't be the #1 WR
I'm just saying he shouldn't be the #1 WR..that's why my comments seem two-sided.

33" ... thanks Kurupt, since I had his combine vert, I never bothered looking up his pro-day numbers.... and true, i should've left out Kelly's school numbers... little unfair given Jackson's 40 number at school was 4.27.

... just in case anyone is wondering, i'm not bashing Thomas b/c I'm a Michigan fan... if anything, it makes me respect him more.

by osmanBAE on Apr 9, 2008 8:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

BTW
What's up with your user name?  Is that your phone number?
Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 10:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

username
just is random number typed out by my left hand when i first wanted to post a single comment and leave... sorry, didn't think i'd really get so into this website the way i did... i want to change my username to osmanBAE but the site won't let me...

by osmanBAE on Apr 9, 2008 11:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Name change
I think we (admins) have access to change your name. If you'd like, I could give it a try...
~K

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 11:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

username
I really would like to post as osmanBAE ... if you can change it I would be so grateful that I promise to not disagree with you for the next couple of posts... haahahaa... just kidding... what fun would that be.

regardless, i'd appreciate it if you could try.

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 12:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How's that?
Looks like it worked. You'll probably have to try logging in and out to see if it worked.
~K

by Kurupt on Apr 10, 2008 12:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

sahweet!
Thanks kurupt... really appreciate it.

by osmanBAE on Apr 10, 2008 12:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm with you.
Devin Thomas does not provide that toughness over the middle, hands, nor blocking skills that I want in my #2.  Therefore, there is no way I'd touch him with my top selection.  

My board is almost the same as well.  BPA will likely be close to Harvey, Sweed is the best (fit) WR at that spot, and McKelvin is a playmaker.  As my sig says, I'm anti-CB, but I'd take McKelvin over DT and Kelly at this point.  So my board is Harvey, Sweed, McKelvin and my dream is that we get Harvey, then Hardy, then Carlson in round 1, 2, 3.

Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 10:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not bad
but show me where we get a C and TE?  I think we should get the best TE in round 2 and use him as our 3rd down converter and red zone threat.  My board remains the same as last week.

1 - Derrick Harvey, DE

2 - Martellus Bennett, TE

3 - Mike Pollak, C

4 - Eric Ainge, QB - We need to start grooming a #2 now.  Could be the #1 in a few years if Edwards does not work out.

4 comp - Paul Hubbard (if gone - Marcus Monk),WR

5 - Darnell Terrell, CB

6 - Keilen Dykes, DT

7a - Doug Legursky, C -  I still would not mind Velasco with this pick, but Legursky has been working on long snapping too.

7b - Adrian Arrington, WR - I bet Arrington will go much higher than this.  This kid has huge upside.  His domestic violence issues seem to be very overblown.  This pick would be the steal of the draft.

7 comp - Jehuu Caulcrick, FB

by Joe P. on Apr 9, 2008 11:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No WR???
You can't seriously believe that Josh Reed can hold down the #2 role. Parrish is clearly a slot guy. Buffalo clearly needs to come out of the draft with a starting #2 receiver--whomever it is.

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 11:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Reed is so bad
then let Hubbard, Monk, or Arrington beat him out.  I could live with Sweed at #11.  IMO he is the only WR I would consider in round 1.  But given that fact, I would be worried about losing both Harvey and Sweed if we traded down.

by Joe P. on Apr 9, 2008 11:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed there Joe.
And for your challenge, I would like to go
  1. Harvey
  2. Hardy
  3. Carlson
  4. Tvyon Branch or if gone then Chevis Jackson
4b. Doug Legursky, C Marshall
(do as you please for the remainder of the draft.)
Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice!!!
Maybe a little high for Legursky, but I would be very happy with that draft!!!

by Joe P. on Apr 10, 2008 12:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mmmm..
Maybe you're right, I'm just assuming Pollack is long gone, and I am not enamored with Justice.  Legursky has solid size, started every game in College, and has a great mean-streak name.
Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 10, 2008 1:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And
he can long snap, an area we could use some competition in.

by Joe P. on Apr 10, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe
This just enables the Bills to take Kelly later, and still have the WR they like.
I'm not sure about that strategy because if Kelly is not a game breaker, then what is he?
A big red zone threat, or a possession guy?

One thing is for sure, the Bills are studying game tape and they will take the WR they feel is best.
Some said we would take Poz with our first last year, but took him later, and right now, in many mock drafts, Kelly is not even in the first. I say, as many have, we will take the best value at #11, no matter the position, and then we will take the best at #41, which may still be Kelly, or we will trade down.
There is still alot that can happen i terms of draft day trades, etc., but at #11, someone could certainly fall in our lap we never expected.

The Bills can win every game

by killascript on Apr 9, 2008 8:49 PM EDT   0 recs

Now way we take a corner
The bills have 4 good young corners all with starting experience.
  1.  Terrence Mgee
  2.  Jabari Greer
  3.  William James
  4.  Ashton Yoboty
The bills have one good reciever
1.  Lee Evans

The bills have 3 good defensive ends:

  1.  Aeron Schobel
  2.  Chris Kelsay
  3.  Ryan Denny
And to all the people saying that limas sweed isn't worthy of a number 11 pick think again. I'll give you 10 reasons why.
  1.  Texas' pro style offense makes it a breeding ground for NFL ready recievers.
  2.  Limas is 6'4 220 pounds with a 37.5 inch verticle making him the big red zone threat we have been looking for.
  3.  His junior year he caught 12 touchdown passes for almost 17 yards a catch!
  4.  He can also stretch the feild with his 4.48 forty time.  Anyone who is suprised by that speed obviously didn't watch much tape!
  5.  Had he not had his wrist problem, which is not an issue now, and played his senior year, and had similar numbers to his junior year (a modest assumption considering he still had the same qb who loved him, colt mccoy), he would not be available to the Bills at pick number 11.  The Bills obviously are not afraid to take risks on players comming off injuries (willis mcgahee).
  6.  He doesn't have any character issues unlike james hardy.
  7.  Wide receiver is BY FAR the Bills' biggest need.  And whatever you people say, they will take a receiver with their first pick.  Dick jauron said it himself, "We need to score more points".  The way I see it a defensive end doesn't help to much with that, considering we already have a very good if not great defensive line.  Anyone who has watched the bills games knows that its the offense who loses games for the bills 90% of the time, not the defense. Limas scored 12 touchdowns, the bills need touchdowns!
  8.  Malcolmb Kelly had a terrible 40 which is exactly as i had suspected.  He benefitted from a run style offense, as ironic as that sounds.  All the defenses thought they would run the ball, they kinda had adrian peterson, and then they would just go deep to malcolmb kelly.  If you watch the tape he never locates the ball at the highest point because he always has the db's beat by so many steps.  Is it because he's fast?  obviously not, they guy ran a 4.68 40 yard dash!  Vernon gholstan ran better than that i think!  Would you line up big vernon at wide reciever?  
  9.  Devin Thomas will not get the nod because he is basically a less agile/bigger version of rascoe parrish.  Ya ya he's pretty quick and fast, but rascoe apparantly the most elusive player ever to go through Miami.  Both parrish and thomas both only scored 8 receiving touchdowns in there best college years.  Did i mention that we need a touchdown maker?  Everyone says we need another return guy.  What?  I swear to god these people don't watch bills games.  The bills have two of the top 5 best returners in the NFL in rascoe parrish and terrence mgee.  If you don't want to put terrence back there because he's our starting corner then just put rascoe!  Fred jackson can also return as he has done in years past.  I remember freddy scoring a touchdown when we used to put him and nate clements back there on punt return duty.  
  10.  His name is Limas Sweed, that is just an NFL star name.  And just look at him, he looks like he's the man!
My Mock draft for the Bills is this.

Round One:  Limas Sweed  
Wr Texas
Round Two:  Martellius Bennett
TE Texam A&M
Round Three:  Keenan Burton
WR Kentucky
Round Four:  Darrell Robertson
DE Georgia Tech
Round Four:  Owen Schmitt  
FB West Virginia
Round Five:  Dennis Dixon  
QB Oregon
Round Six:  Jamie Sliva (Trade up with two rd 7's)
Safety Boston College
Round Seven:  Kirk Barton
Tackle The Ohio State University

by buffaloboy90 on Apr 9, 2008 9:23 PM EDT   0 recs

I like Sweed but....
Buffaloboy,

I think you're overstating the case for Sweed. As much as I think Buffalo needs a starting stud WR in the first round I don't think you can accurately say that McGee, Greer, James and Youboty represent an upper echelon corner rotation. I also don't think you can accurately refer to Schobel, Kelsay and Denney as 'good' DEs. We can argue about whether these players are individually good, bad or in between. As units, however, they aren't in the top half of the league.

I like Sweed, in part because I'm a UT grad and in part because he's physically just what Buffalo needs. However, if the Bills' front office has soured on him there must be a reason. I think we can rule these out:

  1. His UT coaches said something to the Bills that sent up red flags about Sweed. College coaches have a vested interest in seeing their guys make it in the NFL as it helps to recruit the incoming high school grads.
  2. Sweed failed some kind of drug test or set a new floor for the Wunderlic. Surely we would have heard something about it by now.
  3. Sweed had some off field legal issues. Again, I think we would have heard something about it by now.
So, any ideas?

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 9:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Part of me agrees
But you are certainly using the term "good" very loosely.

I wouldn't call UT a "breeding ground for receivers"; in fact, I can't think of any UT WRs, other than Roy Williams, in the entire league.

McGahee was a Donahoe pick forever ago.  His selection doesn't show that the Bills are any more likely to draft an injury risk than any other team.

Saying that Devin Thomas is a bigger version of Roscoe Parrish is the best compliment I have seen anyone give him.  Thomas is WAY bigger than Roscoe and if he has anywhere near the acceleration and agility that Roscoe does, he would be a great pick.

Terrence McGee is far from one of the best 5 KRs in the league.  His 24 yards per return were very average.

by kaisertown on Apr 9, 2008 10:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Love Owen Schmitt, but Dixon... hmmm
No doubt Dixon is amazing.... if he didn't blow out his knee during the arizonaSt game, i think he would've been the Heisman runnerup, easy.  

Of course, I watched the Michigan game about 5 times... and everytime I watch it I'm blown away how talented this guy is... it seemed like he wasn't even trying and he was torching the secondary.

But he's like a delicate leaf.. i think a few good hits on the NFL level and he'll seriously get his knees/ankles blown out.  Don't you think?

by osmanBAE on Apr 9, 2008 11:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

An Idea
First of all, out defensive line as a unit is definitley in the upper half of the NFL.  The additions of Marcus Stround and Spencer Johson definitly make the unit better as a whole.  Not to mention Mcargo getting better.  I will again say that Wide reciever is a way bigger need than corner.  The bills biggest problem last year wasn't their pass defense.  The Bills were ranked number 8 in fewest passing TD'S aloud.  Don't make the mistake of just correlated big names with a good pass defense.  Look at stats.  Chris Mcalister and Samari rolle are regarded as great corners by fans, but the ravens gave up 27 td's last year!  Which put the ravens at 26th in the NFL.  Plus with a better pash rush the corners will be even better.  I really don't agree with needing another corner.  

On why the bills front office doesn't like limas...i don't know.  That is probably a rumor unless you have a credible source that says otherwise.  Honestly, i don't think its anything.  If these guys don't smoke weed and don't beat the wives that they already have kids with then they are clean!  Limas is clean, great character guy just like you said.  

Only reason I could imagine would be the wrist.  You could say that he didn't play through pain or something, but do we really know how bad it was.  I mean he missed the 2nd part of the season so we don't know if it is REALLY healed.  If he would have come back and played there wouldn't be any concerns.  Still he is medically cleared to play and he hasn't gotten injured at the combine or his proday, unlike malcolmb.

by buffaloboy90 on Apr 9, 2008 10:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Sweed's wrist
Buffaloboy,

I think all of the questions about Sweed's wrist have been asked and answered satisfactorily. If, as Gerenimo has reported, Buffalo's front office isn't high on Sweed it likely isn't due to his wrist. Perhaps something in his effort practice or playing style makes Jauron and company think he wouldn't be a good fit.

At this point, your opinion that Buffalo will have a top 16 defensive line smacks of wishful thinking. I hope Stroud pulls a Pat Williams, comes in with a 100 pound plate sized chip on his shoulder, and dominates as he did in his Pro Bowl years. But that's just a hope. Spencer Johnson is more of a question mark than an answer at this point. Fowler said he was good but consider the source.

With all that said, WR is, in my opinion, the biggest need. The Bills have to convert more than 11% of drives into TDs and that requires a stud WR (and a pass catching TE). I'm just curious why a guy with production and measurables isn't part of the equation.

Ron

by Ron From NM on Apr 9, 2008 10:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not crazy about Thomas
He had one good year in college, and that was just a good year, not a great one, and he had several blah games against less-than-star quality corners.  If he's available in the second round -- Kelly too, for that matter -- fine, but he would be a waste of a #11 pick.

Unless the Bills trade down, I'd rather see Harvey or McKelvin/Cromartie taken at #11.

by rexob on Apr 9, 2008 10:26 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm fine with our CBs
and perhaps a 4th round pick.  There 4 young corners with starting experience.  A lot of how well we do is how Greer plays; whether he hit his ceiling last year, or if he continues to improve.  Along with a Cover-2 D and watching the Giants dismantle the Pats with a proper DLine should put the Bills need at DE ahead of CB.

I've already stated why I don't like DT at 11, Kelly is not a good option there either any longer, and I can't think of any reason why we wouldn't like Sweed.  Maybe it IS (and I hope) a smokescreen.  He'd be the best fit at #2 for us IMO.  Harvey may be BPA and I would be estatic if we got either or traded down.

Anti-CB

by Kumario! on Apr 9, 2008 10:57 PM EDT   0 recs

To Sweed or Not to Sweed ?
That is the question.I'm all for Sweed,but hopefully they make the right decsion.Whatever that is.

by ThatGuy2 on Apr 9, 2008 10:58 PM EDT   0 recs

Personally
I think that Thomas will be proven to be a one year fluke of a WR. I think he will be an excellent return man in the Pros, but I don't think he will become an upper echelon WR.

If as Geronimo said that if McKelvin were to fall to #11 we will take him no matter what, if so, heres what I think we should do:

Round One:  Leonidas McKelvin CD
Hard to pass on him here.
Round Two:  Martellius Bennett TE
We now will have a red zone threat and a guy who can get a first down.
Round Three:  Jordy Nelson
Good size, hands and consistent college production, and a team leader, and he can return punts and kicks as well, will move Roscoe and Reed to the pine where they need to be.

So how done was Pat Williams when we let him go Tommie boy??? Stick a fork in him level right?

by WABillsfan on Apr 9, 2008 11:29 PM EDT   0 recs

SO...
corners:
McClevin
Talib
Jenkins
DRC
Cason
Flowers

WRs:
Kelly
Sweed
Thomas
Hardy

Talib is a pot head. Jenkins seems avarage at too many things. DRC is benefiting from a name. Kelly can't run a 40.  The bills appearntly don't like Sweed.  Thomas has "one year wonder" written all over him. and Harvey beats women.

If I had to order them right now it would go like this:

McClevin
Sweed
Kelly
Cason/Flowers
Thomas
Jenkins
Talib
Hardy

I think:

  1.  If McClevin is there at 11, the bills will now take him.  then they will see how the draft plays out and be willing to move back up to grab a WR if they don't think Kelly will last until pick 42.
  2.  If McClevin is gone (and assuming no one huge drops) I don't see how the Bills don't try like hell to trade down.  Cason, Flowers, Sweed, Kelly, and Thomas are all likely to be on the board post-pick 20.  The "value" at 11 is just not there.
  3.  They stay at 11 and take eith Cason, flowers, Kelly, or Thomas.
I REALLY REALLY want to know why the Bills don't like Sweed.  to me, he's still the number 1 WR. Kelly is still number 2 and thomas is a distant third.  I would be disappointed a litted with Thomas as the pick.
John I.

by jri111 on Apr 9, 2008 11:50 PM EDT   0 recs

Sweed
I REALLY REALLY want to know why the Bills don't like Sweed.  to me, he's still the number 1 WR.

I agree. Would be nice to know what they don't see in him that we do. He looks smooth, fast and goes and gets the ball. Maybe he isn't the blocker that Kelly is or the big play threat that Thomas is, but he's an all around good WR. He looks great catching and running with it and would be a great redzone threat...

~K

by Kurupt on Apr 9, 2008 11:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Starters
In my opinion, two starters will come out of the first three picks:
(in no particular order)
WR
CB/DE
TE

WR - Anyone of those four becomes a starter on the outside. But the value is not there at 11, where we could get any of them, except one past 16 (Titans will probably take a wr, probably Sweed if there) and Kelly and Hardy will go in the 2nd and maybe Hardy before Kelly.

CB - It is possible one of them is a starter by the end of the season, but not definite, and maybe none of them over the other except for Flowers. Flowers is the CB I want, so he does not have to be taken at 11.

DE - Have to be Harvey at 11, or nothing till maybe the 3rd or even 4th. Harvey starts by year's end, maybe earlier. But, to take him at 11 would show little confidence in what we have (which may be warranted) but he is a good pick up no matter what.

TE - This need not be discussed that this position can be taken anywhere rds 2-4.

I think we should trade down, take best receiver and Flowers. Best TE in the 3rd, and a DE later. That gives us two starters, and a hopeful threat at TE.

You can never have too many corners or ends.

by De-fense on Apr 10, 2008 12:01 AM EDT   0 recs

Well
I know some of you have fell in love with Cason but at #11?  I would take McKelvin, obviously, but not sold on Cason for a #11 pick.  Need to compare him and Jenkins a little more.

I think this Kelly stuff about him blaming OU for the surface is GETTING BLOWN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION!  I mean come on!  He is a young 20-21 year old kid who ran a disappointing speed, and panicked and it came off in the media as blaming his school.  I think its ludicrous to start putting up red flags because of it.  Like I have said, and will keep on saying, nothing really changes by a guy's pro-day.  To some teams it does, but as Geronimo pointed out the other day, the Bills use the pro days more to see the kid, meet him, see him up close, at least for those in the dept. who haven't had a chance yet.

All Malcolm Kelly did today was give the media and sites like this something to talk about.  Its a bunch of smoke IMO.  However, it undoubtedly will be perceived by teams in different ways.  How it affects OBD's philosohpy on their draft board is unknown.  

The Sweed thing needs to be answered.  He seems like a very viable candidate for a WR for us to take.  

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Apr 10, 2008 12:19 AM EDT   0 recs

this is a blessing
this will make buffalo a little more aggressive in the trading down process maybe somewhere between 15th & 20th with the kelly workout.

by charlieo on Apr 10, 2008 12:20 AM EDT   0 recs

Blessing?
It's a mixed blessing at best, charlieo. If teams know Buffalo is trying to trade down then they know they don't have to offer as much to get the deal done. Let's say for the moment that Sweed is the guy Buffalo really wants and the information about them previously wanting Kelly was a pre-draft smokescreen. Had Kelly done well yesterday (or at least not cried like a losing politician) teams would have seriously thought Buffalo was happy to stand pat and pick Kelly at #11--particularly since Buffalo did just that 2 years ago with Whitner. They would have offered more for the pick. Now that Kelly is going to likely be available well into the 20s (if not beyond) what's the point in offering Buffalo full value for the #11 pick? We're talking the difference between sliding back to the low mid 20s and picking up a 3rd round pick now instead of possibly a 2nd round pick. If the interest in Kelly was a ruse then this wasn't at all a blessing. If the interest in Kelly was genuine then it's even worse--particularly if the team stays locked onto him.

by Ron From NM on Apr 10, 2008 7:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thomas
Although i like Sweed better, Thomas might not be that bad as he could come in for special teams and start returning kicks.  

although on this point i am also torn, as i like parrish as our return guy.  but getting mcgee out of that position would be nice.  as for cb i think flowers could be a nice fit into the bills system and they could draft him in a later round.  so i still think WR is still our priority in the first round.

Still waiting on the next Kelly....

by silverstreak3k on Apr 10, 2008 12:58 AM EDT   0 recs

On the Thomas bandwagon?
Well, I was on the Malcolm Kelly bandwagon but would like to get off quickly. Not because of his time so much as his response about the university changing the venue.

What type of character issues do each of the top 4 receivers have? We know about Hardy, but what about the others. And, besides those issues, which is the hardest worker?

I think if we find that out, we'll find out who the Bills will go after?

Maybe that is why the Bills don't like Sweed? Is there something there in his work ethic or attitude or character?

I think we learned a lot about Malcolm Kelly yesterday that wasn't related to how fast he is.

So, that is why I am jumping on Devin Thomas. I heard something about how hard he worked to prepare for each game. I think that is the type of guy DJ wants. Someone who will prepare, work hard mentally and physically. I just don't see it from the other "top" WRs.

Do you?

Whatever happened to Martin Nance?

by TheBadger on Apr 10, 2008 4:57 AM EDT   0 recs

First Post:: Hardy
This is my first post yet I have been reading this site for about 3 months now.  

I dont understand why there is not more talk about Hardy.  First, look at how this guys stats compare to that of Kelly and Thomas.  Same catches about the same yards but 16 tds.  Hardy has done it for 2 solid years at Indiana which is not known for throwing the ball and which includes games against tough Big 10 defensive competition.  Hardy also had a decent sophomore season.  I for one would not be surprised if the Bills take Hardy in a similar way to how we they took Whitner by reaching for a player they want.  If you doubt Hardy is good go watch the Indiana/PSU game this past year and watch what Hardy did to Justin King who is a 2nd round prospect.  

If they feel Hardy is too much of a character risk then I dont feel WR is worth a pick at spot 11 and believe they will go with either Harvey or Jenkins (I suppose maybe Cason) if trading down is not a possibility.

The Bills were not great but they were somewhat efficient moving the ball between the 20's (reed, parrish, evans have speed to get open in space) and Hardy red zone presence (listed at 6'5'' but they say he is more like 6'7'') would immediately improve our most glaring offensive weakness which is red zone efficiency.    

by Berg79 on Apr 10, 2008 8:54 AM EDT   0 recs

Hardy indeed
Welcome aboard Berg79. I am a second-time poster. My first was just above yours.

I would gladly go Hardy, but not at 11. Of course we all want to trade down now. But I like Hardy a lot after seeing Kelly's time.

Why not place a bet on Hardy staying out of trouble rather than a bet on Kelly keeping his  health. What is safer at this point. I say Hardy.

I hate the situation the Bills are in now... They've got to trade down and everyone knows it.

Whatever happened to Martin Nance?

by TheBadger on Apr 10, 2008 9:11 AM EDT   0 recs

Don't be so glum
Buffalo doesn't have to trade down. The team can stand at #11 and take a WR, CB, DE or even a TE. Kiper might have a grand mal seizure but that's just an added bonus! If the team can't get value for trading back then there's no point in doing so. Besides, if I remember correctly the first 16 picks can be signed to a longer deal than the guys picked at the bottom of the first.

by Ron From NM on Apr 10, 2008 9:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Welcome aboard fellas
good to see some lurkers posting.

Hardy is a great talent, but he's got some big knocks on his character, he beat up his girlfriend and spent a couple nights in jail, and later got suspended for a few games for the ever vague "conduct detrimental to the team" don't know what he did but it sounds bad. I like Hardy but I would only view him as a mid second rounder.

The Bills don't have to trade down, they could take a corner like Jenkins or Cason, or of course some guy named Harvey.

Man do I miss #78

by sireric on Apr 10, 2008 9:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hardy
Thanks.  Same to you.  

I believe I was mistaken regarding hardy being a senior in 07, as it I forgot he came out early.  In'07 his #'s were 79-1125-16.  Soph #'s were 51 for 722 & 10.  Soph year Hardy missed 2 games due to inj and no bowl game, in the game he came back from inj he had 1 catch so basically those # were over 9 games.  His Frosh year he put up 61-890-10 and DNP in one game and was hurt early in another where he only had 1 catch so basically his freshman #'s were over 10 games, again no bowl.  Indiana had little other offensive talent and Hardy was constantly doubled.  

While I will not argue other WR's might be better in the open field I believe Hardy will be the best possession WR/red zone threat and will be the best compliment to Evans.  

I seem like the only one but I wont be disappointed if he is our pick at 11.  I doubt he makes it past 25 if we dont take him.  Obviously, trading down is optimal but that is not an easy move.

Again, remember that OBD likes production.

by Berg79 on Apr 10, 2008 9:35 AM EDT   0 recs

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