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NY Times

There is a good article in this mornings NY Times on the Pats illegal taping. Sorry, I don't know how to create the link, but it is easy to find on the Time's homepage. It certainly appears that the NFL wants to sweep this under the rug as quickly aas possible.  Even Dan Rooney feels that way. Unreal. Let the credibility of the league be dammned, we do not want to hurt the bottom $ line. I think Bush ethics have infected the NFL.. Many good comments to the story too.

This whole sordid mess raises some questions for me. How many games did the Pats outright win because of this cheating? It doesn't take much of an edge for a pro team to win and knowing the defensive signals and relaying them to your QB before the play is a hell of an edge. It is nonsensical to me to think otherwise. The battles of  Midway and Leyte Gulf turned the tide for us in WWII pacific because we broke the Japanese code. We knew their signals. I would argue that gave the Pats a huge advantage on the field.

Also, why are NFL owners so myopic that they want to bury this issue? It is now out in the open and if Sen. Spector has his way will be with us for some time. He is like a pit bull on your ankle. Look at how long the BALCO topic has burned brightly. If the integrity of the rules is just something to sweep under the rug, let em just keep on t aping! One #1 draft pick is nothing more than a wrist slap. The fans feel very differently than the NFL brass on this one.

Unfortunately, if they get to Sen. Spector, it will be favoritism as usual in the NFL.. Now we have MLB trying as hard as they can to minimize BALCO and the NFL doing the same in this matter. Soon, perhaps integrity and credibility will be small secondary issues and we can just get back to playing and cheating as best we can. That is, in its own way, a level playing field. I feel sick now.   

This FanPost written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings.

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really?

I don’t think the NFL is trying to “sweep this under the rug”. They feel as though they have addressed and researched what the Pats did. They then punished them (whether or not the punishment fit the crime is an entirely different conversation) and the NFL commish and his office SHOULD be moving on.

Arlen Specter and his “investigation” are a joke. The guy is a 76 year old congressmen who has been openly criticized and even mocked by other members of congress over his calls for a house investigation similiar to Mitchell’s steroid investigation. The steroid issue and the Pats cheating is SO DIFFERENT that I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I hear the two compared. Comparing Specter to a pitbull is laughable. Congress wouldn’t be able to find out anything new even if Specter had his way, which he won’t because NOBODY in congress agrees with him at all.

Steroids are a broad issue that have an effect on the whole country. High school students using steriods has become an epidemic and needs to be addressed even more than it currently is. Various players from every team were taking steroids for who knows how long and the investigation uncovered a number of things that the general public was largely unaware of.

The Pats and NO OTHER TEAMS were taping signals and breaking a specific rule. There is no way of knowing how well NE was able to break other teams signals and how much info they were stealing during games. THE PATS DIDNT KNOW EVERY PLAY THAT THE OTHER TEAM WAS CALLING. Playbooks are so long and complex and feature a number of different variations that a team would be unable to decode the signals enough to know what plays were being called. My guess is that the Pats knowledge of the other teams signals had no effect at all on over 90% of the plays. They probably knew when a team was running left or right a couple of times a game. They maybe knew when a specific position would be blitzing a couple of plays a game. There is no way to find out what impact that advantage had on the games and there is no possible way to change what happened. The Pats won 17 straight games after they stopped cheating. We will never know how much taping the signals helped them, but i can tell you it certainly didn’t look like not taping the signals really hurt them.

I think the US breaking Japan’s naval codes is a shaky analogy to spygate. The US breaking Japanese Naval codes obviously gave them a much bigger advantage than the Pats ever had.

The NFL hasn’t lost any credibility. Ratings and ticket sales were up last season. They will go up again this season. Nobody is going to stop watching or following football because of spygate. Corporate sponsers aren’t going to disappear and the NFL will make more money this year than they ever have before.

If any other team would have done what the Pats did they would have received a nearly identical punishment.

what about this situation makes it look the league is trying to “sweep this under the rug” or “bury this issue”?

where is this favortism?

why does everyone think the NFL has lost integrity or credibility?

what does BALCO have to do with spygate?

“I think Bush ethics have infected the NFL” – ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
i feel sick now.

by kaisertown on May 18, 2008 7:00 PM EDT   0 recs

Bush ethics? Come on, dude… this is a politics-free zone.

I’m with kaisertown on this one – the NFL dealt with the issue, and while I personally think they could have and should have done more, I’m OK with them not furthering the punishment at this point. That’s all I’m ever going to say about cheating.

Kaiser – keuka used BALCO as an example of how Senator Specter can keep issues alive; he’ll do with Spygate what he did with steroids in baseball. That’s all he was saying.

by Brian Galliford on May 18, 2008 8:49 PM EDT   0 recs

Politics vs Business

Keuka – I’m with you to the extent that I’m really frustrated that the Pats cheated and are still hailed for their 16-0 season. There really is no way of telling just how much intellectual property they’ve illegally gathered from other teams and how much benefit they have gotten out of it. I’m not ready to argue that the Bills might have won more matchups against the Pats had they NOT cheated, but the frustration is there all the same.

But to your point on Bush ethics infecting the NFL, I think that’s unfair (both to Bush and the NFL). Keep in mind that the NFL is a business made up of profit-driven franchises. Like some big businesses, it sometimes has to deal directly with politicians. But in the end, it is just a business trying to earn its share of the sports industry. If the NFL is trying to sweep anything under the table, I would call it “Corporate Damage Control” and not liken it to political corruption.

I don’t necessarily think the NFL is trying to sweep anything under the rug, but if anyone is guilty of brushing off Spygate, it’s the mainstream sports media.

Early on when Spygate was first made public, I detected knee-jerk outrage from fans and the sports media alike. It didn’t take long before the media were changing the tune and acting like it wasn’t really a big deal. In fact, by the end of the season, they were worshiping Belichick’s sweatshirt.

But even for the media, it all comes down to business. Showing the NFL as shady or a favorite team as cheaters wouldn’t help the individual media outlets that make money off of NFL TV ratings.

In the end, I’m not angry with the NFL or the media. I’m just plain frustrated that a team as good as New England, which we have to play twice a year, has cheated to make themselves that much more unbeatable.

But if any good has come out of Spygate for Bills fans, its that it makes it easier to look at this division rival as the bad guy, and Buffalo as a heroic underdog. When the Bills do finally beat New England again, victory will be very, very sweet.

by Optimist on May 19, 2008 10:33 AM EDT   0 recs

‘I don’t think the NFL is trying to "sweep this under the rug". They feel as though they have addressed and researched what the Pats did.’

While they might try to appear to feel that way, few who know the facts of the case do.

Its a total cover up.

Here are just some things off the top of my head:

1. Goodell punishing the Patiots without seeing the tapes.

2. Goodell giving out a punishment which was far less severe then that given to a coach taking steroids for a medical condition.

3. Goodell destroying the tapes because ‘if they get out, they will give teams a competitive advantage’

4. Goodell claiming that the Patriots received no competitive advantage.

5. Goodell claiming to have run a thorough investigation, without actually having spoken to someone who worked in the Pats video department for 6 years.

6. In Sep 2007, Goodell saying the tapes were only from 2006.

7. In Feb 2008, following the revelation that Walsh had tapes, Goodell admits that the taping had occured since 2000.

8. In Feb 2008, Goodell says that the Pats only taped defensive signals.

9. In May 2008, following the NY Times report of a tape with offensive signals being taped, Goodell admits that the Patriots had taped both Offenseive and Defensive signals.

Thats just off the top of my head. I wont even get into the penalities that San Fran received for tampering once, on a player they never even got. Or that Pacman increased the length of his suspension for lying to the commissioner, but Belichick lies to the commissioner and doesnt get suspended at all.

I am seriously considering stopping watching the NFL I am so pissed about their cover up of 6 years of dedicated cheating.

by Thronsen on May 19, 2008 10:35 AM EDT   0 recs

I'm with you

These Goodell apologists are disgusting. He obviously wanted this story to disappear and the league and networks just about put out a full fledged ad campaign ridiculing the public’s outrage. You say something enough times, it becomes factual. The NFL said Spygate was a dead issue days after it was unconvered and have continued to say it for 8 months since. Spygate is a dead issue. Thank you, Roger Goodell for telling me what’s what. If anyone was going to have to ccontrol my mind, I’m glad it’s you.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on May 19, 2008 11:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is well worth a read.

And he even misses a few of the most damning points.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080517&sportCat=nfl

by Thronsen on May 19, 2008 11:11 AM EDT   0 recs

Sorry I forgot:

11. NFL spokesman saying there was nothing new in the Walsh tapes, before the NFL had actually viewed them.

12. The NFL spending more time interviewing Walsh’s other employers, then in interviewing Walsh.

13. The NFL allowing a Pats attorney to ‘sit in’ on the Walsh interview.

by Thronsen on May 19, 2008 11:24 AM EDT   0 recs

I'm so sick of this story

I wish it would just go away.

Goodell f’ed up and should have laid the iron hammer on the Pats, but he didn’t, and now it’s probably too late for anything else to be done. I just wish it would go away now. I’m sick of hearing about it and it continues to make me sick how the Pats and Belicheck have pretty much gotten away with it all. Let’s hope everyone moves on soon…

~K

by Kurupt on May 19, 2008 11:53 AM EDT   0 recs

Goodell

You are so right – he missed on this one. But I think he did so because of the pressure to make it go away…

by krytime on May 20, 2008 1:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok sorry cant edit, and just checked my email.

Can I know what word I used that is forbidden?

And as a suggestion, perhaps just the word could be deleted, not the entire post.

I actually do put thought into what I post here.

You can delete this and the one above, dont mean to be bringing private conversations into derailing a thread. But I would like to know.

by Thronsen on May 19, 2008 3:54 PM EDT   0 recs

To the best of my knowledge

you can’t delete just a single word. As for what was said, it was right on but you just have to avoid the seven dirty words, which include the slang for feces, and f-bombs.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on May 19, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

To further sireric’s correct claim that the seven dirty words must be avoided – if you feel you must use those words to convey your angst, give us a “f@$” or a “s#$”. We’ll get the point, and we won’t delete your comments. This goes for everyone! :)

by Brian Galliford on May 19, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Goodell

Is doing his best to make it die thanks to other owners who are afraid of the NFL’s image.Reading the comments on the NY Times page, the fans are seething. Just goes to show us that the #1 lesson in life still remains true. Life is not fair. And then you die.
Another worthy point is, if the taping did not make a difference, Bill would have stopped it long ago. It takes very little to gain a winning competetive edge. Bottom line, they committed a felony and were punished for a first time misdemeanor.

by keuka121 on May 19, 2008 6:13 PM EDT   0 recs

Just my opinion !

How many times have we heard the phrase “defense wins championships” of course knowing what the defensive call is negates a large part of the meaning of this phrase. For example, if you know each time I am going to be blitzing, and I am coming up the middle, anyone who says this would not be a HUGE help is nuts. The only question now is , do we know the full extent of the infraction, not just with the Pats but the league, which historically copycats everything, and does the punishment fit the crime. Of course the NFL wants this to go away, any business would ,but by doling out their punishment so quickly before all the facts were in they left themselves open to second guessing. Nobody believes that the fine Mr B. received came out of his savings acct. ,and while in most years a #1 pick is BIG, the fact that it still left them with the 7th pick in the draft certainly softened this blow tremendously and more importantly the perception of a stiff punishment. If the NFL really wants this to go away, first ,be sure they now have all the facts from around the league and then they should admit their blunder of rushing to judgement by slapping an additional penalty on the Pats and any other team that is proven a cheat.,and make no mistake it was cheating., As long as folks think the NFL has the broom out and that the Pats got off easy ,which is the Perception of many,many folks , this is not going to go away. Goodell must do what I believe Rozelle would have done which is to put the league and it rep first ,and give a punishment that nobody could perceive as getting off easy.

by Rocco58 on May 20, 2008 4:05 PM EDT   0 recs

I had thought...

...that the initial penalty (the fine and the loss of the pick) was solely for the detected infraction against the Jets. Bob Costas certainly did. If the NFL now knows that this has been going on since at least 2000, then what the Patriots deserve is an NFL equivalent of the NCAA’s “death penalty.”

1) The Patriots are stripped of their titles and the championship in those years officially goes “unawarded”
2) The Patriots lose a #1 and #2 draft choice for every year they were in violation of the rule (not counting the incident where they were already punished). I believe that would mean that they would lose picks from the 2009-2014 drafts.
3) The team is given a one-time fine of $25 million.
4) The team loses their share of television revenue for one full season.
5) The team cannot be involved in any “featured” game where they have sole television coverage and no other game such as MNF, SNF or a Thursday game for a period of six years. They cannot be the “featured” television game on Sunday broadcasts for a period of six years.
6) Bill Belichick is given a lifetime ban from participation in the NFL on any level whatsoever, to include attendance at NFL games. Any Patriot staffer who was involved in the production and distribution of the tapes is given a six year ban.

I think that is punishment that will fit the crime for seven years of cheating and is one that will ensure that the NFL takes such offenses very seriously.

"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England

by Calvert on May 20, 2008 8:27 PM EDT   0 recs

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