State of the Roster II: Bills Strong Safeties
by Brian Galliford on Jun 2, 2008 7:00 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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Prior to the 2008 NFL Draft - in fact, prior to the free agent signing period of this past March - we took a look at the Buffalo Bills' roster position by position, breaking down then-current personnel, finding holes, and building our community needs list.
Now that free agency and the Draft have been completed, and the Bills have infused their roster with new talent, it's time to repeat our process. Where has Buffalo gotten better? Where have they gotten worse? How will additions impact which Bills veterans remain on the roster? These are questions that we've been attempting to answer for the past week or so, and will continue to do so.
We continue those discussions today with an examination of Buffalo's strong safeties. To view our previous discussions on Buffalo's SS situation (pre-off-season), bang it here.
Donte Whitner: Entering his third year in the league - and his third as the Bills' starting strong safety - Donte Whitner, at least from your humble narrator, is facing lofty expectations. Whitner is regarded as one of the best young safeties in the NFL (and that very well may be true), but on a weak Bills defense, Whitner's production has been anything but elite. In '07, Whitner notched 89 tackles (good for third on the team) and an interception. He brings a lot to the table in terms of consistency, athleticism and leadership qualities, but with the team making significant defensive improvements this off-season, the pressure is on Whitner to produce like a #8 overall pick should. I like this kid - but he's still got something to prove.
Bryan Scott: Signed as a street free agent during the '07 campaign, Scott was a pleasant surprise as a reserve safety and situational blitzer and run stuffer. Scott has bounced around the league a little, but when the Bills re-signed him this off-season, it was an excellent move - they've brought back a player who knows the system, knows his coaches and teammates, and can play an important role in a defense that could still use more diversity. He's got special teams value as well. Scott may end up being the top reserve at both safety spots for the Bills - yes, even ahead of George Wilson.
John Wendling: No, I'm not sure what position he plays. I'm not even sure he'll see the field as a defender outside of the pre-season in 2008. All I know is this - just like a very similar player named Coy Wire, Wendling is a safety in a linebacker's body, and his specialty will be as... well... a specialist. Will Wendling ever play defense in any capacity? That remains to be seen. What's known is this - Wendling will be a centerpiece of a revamped special teams unit, and therefore his value to this team is underrated by many.
The Additions: None.
The Subtractions: None.
Pre-Season Outlook: Unlike the free safety position, which is largely unsettled, there shouldn't be too many surprises at the strong safety position throughout training camp and the pre-season. Whitner is the starter, and he's probably going to be the defender who plays more than any other (barring injury, of course). Scott is the niche player that can make an impact as a reserve, and Wendling is the centerpiece to the team's new-look special teams units. There's still something to prove for all three players (but especially in Whitner's case), but this position is settled and, by and large, very strong.
Change: None.
As always, your thoughts and opinions are welcome and encouraged in the comments section. We'll wrap up our State of the Roster II series this afternoon with a general discussion on the team's special teams units.
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I like Wendling a lot,
what a good pick up from the draft last year. He probably has the potential to at least see the field on defense down the line, but he does seem raw.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
I think it’s very important that the Bills find a way to get Wendling on the field more. The guy is a beast in terms of athleticism.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K0P-22hhrW4
I don’t know if anyone’s seen that clip, but it’s noteworthy to say the least.
I saw that after last years draft
He’s got tons of ability, there was even talk that he could be moved to corner, of course after this off season I don’t think he is going anywhere. I would like to see what he’s got.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Scott
I must be the only person who believes Scott gets cut. He is a 1 dimensional SS who can not be on the field in passing situations. I think either Youbouty or Scott gets cut or traded but not both. Therefore, I suppose I am saying I think Youbouty makes the roster.
Scott
If you cut the veteran, experienced Scott, what exactly are we left with? John Wendling, who’s never seen the field on D? That’s not going to happen.
So what if Scott is one-dimensional. Unless Whitner gets hurt, we won’t be asking him to be on the field in passing situations. Scott will see the field in certain run situations and goal line packages, which can allow Whitner to move around some. Guys like Simpson and Wilson will see the field on the certain passing downs alongside Whitner.
Scott’s experience and ability to help against the run make him a must keep as a backup. We can’t go into the season expecting Wendling to be the main SS backup. Maybe down the line, but not now.
~K
totally agree
Scott could get cut, but only if Wendling passes him on the depth chart. I think that is very unlikely. It’s easy to point to his size and athleticism and say that he is going to be a great player, but there are reasons nobody drafted him until we did in the 6th round. He probably isn’t that good of a safety. The best kinds of backups are often players who only do one or two things great. You can put them on the field in situations where they excel at and hide their deficiencies by putting them back on the sidelines for the next play. The Bills defense should really benefit from putting Will James in at the nickel corner on possible run downs and Scott in around the goal line and other short yardage situations while Jabari Greer handles the normal nickel duties and Simpson/Wilson play free safety on passing downs.
Scott
I agree Scott is respectable at stopping the run but I dont believe he is really that good above avg at best and poor against the pass. He wouldn’t be a street free agent last year if he was that talented. I think Scott is decent enough to make some team, however I believe the Bills will keep only 10 secondary players. It is a numbers game to me and I dont see Whelding or Youbouty getting cut.
Maybe I am wrong but I think he will be a veteran cut. We weren’t concerned about exp last year and this year we have more anyway with or without Scott. This offseason we built a front 7 to stop the run and therefore I dont feel the coaches plan to use the SS up on the line as much. Also in goaline situations you usually have only 3 secondary people in the game and the 1 safety in the game will be Whitner not Scott (unless Whitner moves to corner on the goaline which I suppose is a possibility).
Just call Scott getting cut a early prediction. If Youbouty is traded then that changes things.
hmmm
You make a great point about the Bills keeping 11 defensive backs. I would think there are very few teams who did it last year, maybe none at all.
And while it is true that the classic goal line formation only uses 1 safety, it depends on the situation. A run stopping safety can be used anywhere on the field too. Wouldn’t you want a S, like Scott on the field on 3rd and 1 or 2 yards? And that is the whole point. it doesn’t matter how bad he is against the pass because he will only play on rushing downs.
10 DB's
That works fine if all 10 are ready to contribute on D if necessary. I don’t expect much, if anything, from Wendling on D yet. At least not until I see him out there performing well. He’s a ST in my book at this point. Same thing with Reggie Corner. I have no idea, and nobody else does either, what he’ll provide this year. I will mark him as a ST only at this point too.
Couple that with the rash of injuries we saw in our secondary last year and I see no problem keeping the 11 DB’s (6 CB’s along with Whitner, Simpson, Scott, Wilson and Wendling at S). We’ve kept plenty of ST only players for years, so what’s wrong with Wendling being apart of that this year? I want to have backups that can help us on defense when called upon and a guy like Scott gives me much more comfort than Wendling.
~K
10 v. 11
Teams can keep 11, it is rare though. In my opinion we wont need a run stuffing LB like Scott on the field as much since the DT are improved and the LB’s have more size and run stuffing ability. If it is 3rd and 1 and a team comes out with 2 TE 2 RB 1 WR then we can counter with 4-4-3. Line DiGiorgio up w. Poz in the middle or Move Mitchell to the middle and put Ellison on the outside. I am not arguing the point that Scott can be useful in the right situation, I just believe someone in the secondary needs to be cut and I think the Bills would rather have the extra corner Youbouty than the extra backup safety.
Again, it’s a number game to me…I am not disputing that in the proper situation Scott has value but I dont believe the situation comes up enough in games where he will get a roster spot. Also, injuries will dictate things in the secondary. If a corner goes down in training camp or preseason then the Bills will keep 5 CB and 5 Safety’s and he makes the team.
However, Wendling’s development is also an interesting sub-plot to this prediction.
considering what Berg and Kurupt said
I think this is a very interesting conversation because it probably sounds a lot like something that coaches and front office people would be saying right before final cuts. There are so many factors to consider when keeping or cutting those last 4 or 5 players.
Here is my list of the positions you NEED to open a season with on a 53 man roster:
QB – 2
RB – 3
FB/TE – 4
WR – 5
OL – 8
DE – 4
DT – 4
LB – 6
CB – 5
S – 4
ST – 3 (punter, kicker, long snapper)
That adds up to 48 players. Which leaves teams with 5 spots available. I think there is enough room for 6 CBs and 5 safeties, but they have to be useful. I think a 5th safety is much more useful than a 6th CB. Then again, you do have to leave some players inactive every week and a 6th CB would definately be inactive every week.
Kurupt, I think you are right with Wendling being a special teams only type of player, at least this season. In fact, I would put the over/under on defensive snaps taken by John Wendling in close games at .5. I don’t think he will see the field once during a close game this season. I think the Bills would put any combination of safeties on the field, including Simpson/Wilson, before Wendling sees any action. I just get the feeling he is nowhere near ready. He does however play into the numbers game at safety and at defensive back. If everyone makes it through camp pretty healthy, the coaches will definately have to have a can we really keep 11 DBs conversation.
Berg, a 4-4-3 is just too different schematically for the Bills to really consider doing it. A package like that would take too many extra reps and film sessions for it to be a realistic option. I like that the Bills run the same basic defensive strategy on most plays. Everyone on the team knows it inside and out and it is much easier to make personnel adjustments (ie: bringing in a safety who weighs 20 pounds more than the starter to help in the run game) than it is to change a defensive formation. I don’t think the improved D-Line is really a factor at all when discussing what Scott might bring to the defense. The team will still face the same number of 3rd and short situations. And the coaches can’t just say well our safeties are only average against the run, but our DTs are solid so we can just keep the same players in the game in every situation. Basically an improved D-Line will have the same factor on the Bills defense regardless of who is playing safety and all safeties will see the same benefits from the improved line.
I don't think...
the Coy Wire to John Wendling comparison is accurate at all. Wendling has prototypical size for a SS and is (and always has been) a safety… while Wire was an undersized LB in a safety’s body. Sure, they’re both phenomenal on ST, but the similarities end there.
I know Brian wants more production from Whitner, but the thing is… it’s not like Whitner is leaving plays on the field. Teams don’t usually go deep on us when we have our safeties back. He plays pretty well in man coverage on TE’s, gives up some catches but doesn’t get burned. He plays well in run support, doesn’t miss many tackles at all. He makes big tackles around the LOS when he has the opportunities. He’ll lay the wood on receivers catching the ball (see Chad Johnson). If we want to see more plays from our safeties, we have to get better at defending the intermediate throws, which means we need to adjust schematically, we need better corner play, and we need a better pass rush.
It is a legitimate demand for more production, but you have to put it in context and analyze the circumstances. The logic you brought us through was: he was picked at #8 therefore he should have X amount of production. Well, that’s very ….. elementary thinking. You judge him by his stats you say he’s an average player, but if you watch his performance on Sundays he is a cornerstone on our defense as he is the brains of the secondary… and is performing as well as this scheme and his experience level will allow him. So what, if you buy his Topps card next year and it says Donte Whitner had 110 tackles and 3 INT then you will say he has arrived? If that happens I would say our defense has arrived, not Donte Whitner.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
actually
Wire is 6’0 and 220 pounds. Wendling is actually bigger. He is 6’1, 222 pounds. And a couple of years into Wire’s career you could have said that he was exclusively a safety in both college and the NFL. The Bills moved wire to LB about 5 years into his career. I think its a perfect comparison.
Safeties often excel in cover 2 schemes. Bob Sanders was switched from free to strong last year and the Colts run a scheme almost identical to Buffalo’s. He makes as many plays as anyone in the league. When healthy, Mike Brown has been a true playmaker for the Bears. The Vikings safeties had 8 INTs last season. Impact players make plays, regardless of scheme.
Roster
Kaisertown: I agree completely with your roster accessment that we would have 5 spots. Theoretically to keep 11 is possible. HOwever, are we going to go with 2 QBs again, I believe we see 3; with the Lynch situation looks like 4 Rb’s are more likely. O-line could be 9 with 8 active (however this is not a definete at all); WR possibly 6; DT/DE 50/50 on 8 or 9; LB 50/50 on 6 or 7. Since I believe we will keep 3 QBs; 4 RBs (now w. Lynch’s sit), and probably either 9 O-line or 6 WR’s so for offensive depth I think the only way we keep 11 in the secondary is if we keep 8 Dline and 6 LB.
If Scott is not going to be active on a week to week basis then I dont see us keeping him.
Regarding the 4-4-3; it could be a speciality short yardage package; however you are probably right with the new faces and youth it would be tough to implement.
well
You are dead on about the roster crunch and how tough it is to fit everybody into a 53 man roster. The Bills only kept 8 OL last year, but with Matt Murphy no longer PS eligible they could keep 9. You could say the Bills will keep 8.5 OL and 3.5 TEs if they keep Murphy. I don’t think Steve Johnson has as good of a chance as most people seem to think. I’m not sure Marshawn’s situation leads to the Bills keeping 4 RBs. If he is suspended for the start (or entire) of the season, then he won’t count as a member of the 53 man roster. And the Bills should know if he will be suspended by the time they make their final cuts in August, so if he is good to go, the Bills will only keep 3 RBs. The whole situation will be cleared up by the time the season starts, for better or for worse. 3 QBs and 9 DL does seem likely. Did I just say that it is likely that Jason Jefferson makes the team?
If Scott makes the team he will be active every week. He has enough value in those short yardage situations and as a member of the kick coverage team to consistently be active.
Disagree
Scott wont be active every week. Highly unlikely. He is not a top special teams player and I think he will be kept only as security for a long term Whitner injury as the team would rather see him replace Whitner than Wenlding. If Whitner is healthy I dont see him being active much but then again I dont think Scott is that good which is where our opinions differ in the first place.
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