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Measuring Trent Edwards against QB Year Two Trends


How good can Edwards be in Year 2? (Photo Source)

It's the biggest question surrounding the Buffalo Bills, a team hoping to end its eight-year playoff drought - can second-year QB Trent Edwards play well enough to guide his team toward a chance at a post-season berth?

Unfortunately, this type of question can't be easily answered until, well, it's answered.  But by measuring the statistical trends of several modern quarterbacks as they made the leap from their first to their second year as a starting quarterback, some general rules seem to appear - and when applied to Edwards, bring forth some interesting predictions for his 2008 statistics.  Here's how we came up with our predictions for Edwards' numbers this coming season:

The Formula
Thirteen quarterbacks, both current and "retired", were chosen for this exercise.  Six are considered "elite" at their position, while the other seven have traits that compare favorably to what we've seen of Edwards thus far.  Those thirteen quarterbacks are...

The Elites: Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb
The Comparisons: Jake Delhomme, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Marc Bulger, Philip Rivers, Matt Hasselbeck

As a side note, if Edwards performs as well as any of these thirteen quarterbacks have in the past, Buffalo has done pretty well for themselves.  Especially considering the Comparison group, it seems plausible that Edwards can reach that plateau.

All thirteen quarterbacks listed above were measured, from their first season to their second season as a starter, for fluctuations in the following statistical categories: completion percentage, passing yards, touchdowns and interceptions (you know, the basics).  Those fluctuations were averaged collectively between the thirteen quarterbacks, and then between their specific categories (elites versus comparisons).  The numbers were hardly shocking.

From year one to year two, here are the average fluctuations between the three groups:

Entire Group: +1% completion percentage, +240 yards, +4 TD, -1 INT
Elite Group: +1% completion percentage, +600 yards, +8 TD, E INT
Comparison Group: +1% completion percentage, -65 yards, +1 TD, -1 INT

These raw numbers were then adjusted within the elite and comparison groups to account for special circumstances.  For instance, Tony Romo played in more games his second season, so his statistical fluctuations were quite high; in the comparison group, both Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger missed four or more games in their second season, tweaking the stats.  Adjusted, here are the numbers for the elite and comparison groups considering injuries:

Elite Group: +1% completion percentage, +450 yards, +6 TD, -1 INT
Comparison Group: +1% completion percentage, +150 yards, +2 TD, -1 INT

Applying the Formula to Edwards
In order to be able to fully apply these numbers to Edwards' first season, we first had to extrapolate Edwards' rookie season statistics had he played a full season.  Edwards was the primary quarterback for Buffalo in 37 out of 64 total quarters played last year; had he played a full healthy season, his numbers would have been as such:

Edwards Extrapolated: 56% completion percentage, 2860 yards, 12 TD, 14 INT

With those hypothetical full-season numbers in mind, we then applied the three averaged trends from the formula above to chart Edwards' potential growth.  The entire group average, as well as the elite and comparison group averages, have been applied below to project his 2008 stats:

Edwards Averaged: 57% completion percentage, 3100 yds, 16 TD, 13 INT
Edwards Elite: 57% completion percentage, 3310 yards, 18 TD, 13 INT
Edwards Compare: 57% completion percentage, 3010 yards, 14 TD, 13 INT

This was an interesting exercise, even though I'm sure there are much smarter fans out there who can point out 1,000 flaws with the formula.  But it brings up some interesting debates - is the trend believable/applicable?  Can Edwards make an "elite" leap from his first to his second year, even if he himself never ends up an elite QB?  What kind of numbers will he need to produce to turn Buffalo into a serious, legitimate playoff contender?  Should we be worried about the stat line produced from the applied compare formula?

All items I hope to see discussed in the comments section.

0 recs  |  Comment 16 comments

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Anytime you see the word “Extrapolated” in a post, you know that some serious research was done.
I think that even if Edwards exceeds that “elite” numbers, this team is still a year away from being a serious play-off contender. Thats not to say they won’t make the play-offs, but that the Super-Bowl run is still at least a year or two away.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jul 17, 2008 8:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Even with a playoff berth, the knock on our team will be that our players are raw in the postseason. However, you never know. But a betting man would say no Championship talk for at least a year or two. 2008 is about proving capability; at QB position and everywhere else.

This town needs an enema!

by killascript on Jul 17, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very interesting

Good work Brian. With Edwards only playing half a season as the starter, would it be more accurate to call this season Edwards first season? I know we all hope he plays like it is his third season!

by Joe P. on Jul 17, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That was one of my considerations when I started to do this exercise – since I was measuring all 13 quarterbacks based on their first FULL season as a starter to their second season, it seemed a little ludicrous to apply this to Edwards, who hasn’t had a full season yet.

Ultimately, I decided that the experience Edwards did gain, since he was a rookie, was sufficient to apply this to him. But you’re welcome to disagree with me on that front. :)

by Brian Galliford on Jul 18, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Info

I still remember the INT against Dallas when a FG might put the game out of reach, the bad INT against Baltimore, the fact he was only able to score 3 point at NYJ, 0 At Clev, and 1 TD after the 1st Quarter against the Giants, 9 pts against the Eagles. 4 of his 7 Td’s came in 1 game against the fins. But I will give the rookie the benefit of the doubt as he drove us for the winning kick against the Skins and looked great against the fins and Jets in Blo.

I obviously want the kid to suceed but I am having a hard time believing he will become like any of the 13 QB’s listed. I think if they open things up a little you can expect 18-20 ints with maybe 17-18 TDs. If they keep things conservative then 14-16Tds with the same # of Ints.

I still dont believe Trent makes it through the season healthy and I believe JP will have a bigger part in our season than some might like. I for one am probably the last of the JP supporters who think he got the raw end of a tough deal, but even I acknoweldge its Trent’s team until injury takes him out.

by Berg79 on Jul 17, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cool Analysis

My first impression was that Trent’s extrapolated numbers were not as good as I thought, but keep in mind two of his data points were bad weather games (not just bad weather, but horrible weather). That hurts the extrapolation.

Comparing average first year stats to those of proven QB’s proves that most great QBs struggle early. It doesn’t prove that all struggling rookie QBs will become great.

I think we’re all looking for signs – regardless of the stats – and I think we saw them. We need to find out if he can get it done at crunch time because almost every NFL game is close. I can’t wait to find out because we have a team that will afford him the opportunities. With JP, the team sucked so it was hard to know how much blame to assign to the QB. I’m fairly sure both will see plenty of playing time.

by MrFurious1 on Jul 17, 2008 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To me, what’s promising about Edwards is that even though he struggled, he was streaky. I like streakiness in young quarterbacks – it usually means that once things click, their high points in their streakiness will become more sustained, and thus more frequent. (See high points: Miami, first quarter NY Giants game, first Jets game).

by Brian Galliford on Jul 18, 2008 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting...

I notice you didn’t use QB rating as one of the stats. I checked it out, and found the elite QBs gain an average of 6.4 points, while the comparison group gained an average of 5.4 points. It’s interesting to note that three of these quarterbacks had 20-point increases in their ratings (both Mannings and Palmer).

Also, MrFurious1 has a point; this is looking at good/great QBs and seeing their first few years in the league. Note that five of those QBs were drafted in the top 4 picks overall… Instead, what if we select players just based on their draft status? Over the last 20 years, here’s the list of QBs drafted about where Edwards was (70-110) who had two or more years as a starter: Rob Johnson, David Garrard, Craig Erickson, Steve Beuerlein, Brian Griese, Scott Mitchell, Neil O’Donnell, Rich Gannon, and Chris Chandler. Ouch. That list covers pretty much every team in the league, since all but Garrard have played for 4 teams or more.

Out of this list of nine players, most weren’t starters until their fourth or fifth season, so what about the players in this list who started early? The best comparisons to Edwards then could be Erickson, Griese , and O’Donnell, who all started two out of their first three years in the league. If we look at these three players, they increased completion percentage from 54.4% to 59.9%, YPG from 190 to 218, and touchdowns from 1 per game to 1.3 per game. Also, they dropped INTs from 1/game to 0.6/game, and two (Griese and O’Donnell) ended up going to the Pro Bowl in their second year as a starter, despite only starting 10-12 games that season. So even average quarterbacks should improve in their second year as a starter…

Trivia note – of the 50 QBs drafted in the 70-110 range in the last 22 years, nine played for the Buccaneers at some point. Yikes.

by Krenn on Jul 17, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good perspective...

It shows what a crap shoot finding a good QB is. We want to be optimistic, but you just can’t tell. That’s why I’m glad we still have JP. I want it to be Trent, but there’s no way to know JP doesn’t have it. I don’t think he does, but I’m glad that if something does happen to Trent we might get one more look at JP. The one name on the list that I think of is Rich Gannon. It took him a long time, but he got real good. There have been others.

by MrFurious1 on Jul 17, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t use QB rating because that stat is based directly on the four I was already using. So it would have been a level increase all across the board based on those averages.

by Brian Galliford on Jul 18, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

always fun to look at numbers

Good job on the article, but the 13 QBs chosen seem too random for my liking. It almost looks like stat-loading for the benefit of talking yourself into Edwards. Does anybody have true rookie QBs who started somewhere between 7-10 games who had stats that were similar to those of Edwards? Dennis Shaw started as a rookie and had a similar completion percentage, but his stats don’t really make a good comparison because it was a much diffrent era that was harder on QBs and Shaw liked the deep ball. Thinking harder, I immediately thought of Andrew Walter because they were both pro-style QBs with good size on crummy Pac 10 teams in college and that’s who Edwards reminded me of his entire career at Stanford. Unfortunately (actually, fortunately, since Walter sucks), he’s a better comparison for Losman in that he sat his rookie year. I think “bad” rookie QBs would be more relevant to look at in trying to gauge what we can expect from the Trent Edwards Experience in year two. How many rookies rebounded? (I hope most of them did). Un fortunately, I doubt too many QBs since the advent of the forward pass ever led their teams to TDs in 4 of the 9 games they started and ever got an encore, so Edwards might be the guinea pig of sorts…

...I found calling Romo and McNabb “elite” to be kind of comical. McNabb, for example, has made a career out of the 1st and goal from the 1 yard line TD pass (a Tom Brady* favorite as well) and looking like a deer in headlights in playoff games, while Romo is something like 0 for 10 in terms of playing well in games after Thanksgiving for his career…those 13 QBs are at different stages of their careers, but if I had to guess how they should all be evaluated after their careers are over the way one evaluates NBA point guards from different eras and systems in terms of their overall “game” to get around stats that don’t translate, I’d go:

1. Peyton Manning (Magic Johnson- a once in a generation, all-time legend)
2. Tom Brady* (Isaiah Thomas- best player on a loaded team that cheats)
3. Brett Favre (Allen Iverson- an original; great early career, later he’s overkill from media)
4. Eli Manning (Chris Paul- good kid; impressive career gets progressively better)
5. Ben Roethlisburger (Jason Kidd- a little overrated, but I’d take him on my team)
6. Matt Hasselbeck (Gary Payton- hidden gem in Seattle that’s better than his stats)
7. Carson Palmer (Steve Nash- full of talent, but his teams play no D)
8. Phillip Rivers (Chauncey Billups- late bloomer who turns into a gamer)
9. Donovan McNabb (Tim Hardaway- system guy with gaudy stats…but he’s soft)
10. Drew Brees (Kevin Johnson- undersized all-star, never wins it all)
11. Marc Bulger (Mark Price- decent player who’s not going to carry a team)
12. Tony Romo (Stephon Marbury- me-guy w/ great stats; lousy point guard)
13. Jake Delhomme (Rod Strickland- one shining moment for each- Delhomme played in Super Bowl/ Strickland was prominently mentioned in Wu Tang’s “Triumph”.

14. Trent Edwards (Rajon Rondo- horrible rookie season, plays for a clueless coach and on a once proud team that has been run into the ground in recent years- wins a league title in his 2nd year)...it’s July.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Jul 17, 2008 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.

There are some big differences between Edwards and a “bad” rookie QB year. For one, his sack percentage was very low (4.3%, good for 9th in the league last year). Compare that to, say, the rookie seasons of David Carr (14.6%), Kyle Boller (7.1%), Andrew Walter (14.3%), or Alex Smith (14.9%).

In fact, comparing Edwards’ rookie season to those four quarterbacks, his interception percentage is the lowest, his completion percentage is the highest, his TD/game is the highest, his QB rating is the highest (by 8 points!) and even his yards per game is the highest. (or yards/attempt, if you prefer that to Y/G)

Carr, Boller, and Smith all improved – fortunately -

by Krenn on Jul 18, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carr, Boller, and Smith all improved considerably over their rookie season – I’m sure Carr wants to forget that 76-sack year, and Smith wants to forget his 1-11 TD-INT ratio (his QB rating increased from 40.8 to 74.8).

Note – in Alex Smith’s rookie season, he led his team to TDs in just 4 of his 8 games, and he was playing in sunny San Fransisco, not the blizzard conditions that Edwards had last December.

by Krenn on Jul 18, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha – I like the Rondo comparison. Let’s hope…

As far as McNabb and Romo being “elite”: That’s clearly a matter of opinion, but I should have clarified in the article that I meant statistically elite. They both have had very good career numbers, no matter how they got them.

by Brian Galliford on Jul 18, 2008 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

Should we expect the signing of an alien looking, well past his prime, gunslinger at midseason to backup up Trent Rondo? I can’t think of a single human being, let alone QB, who is as ugly/weird looking as Sam Cassell….

~K

by Kurupt on Jul 18, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willie McGee is pretty bad.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jul 18, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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