Bills Training Camp Battles: Starting DT
by Brian Galliford on Jul 22, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
in Buffalo Bills Opinion
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Note: As Buffalo Rumblings counts down the days until the start of the Buffalo Bills' 2008 training camp (current count: 3), we'll be breaking down some of the bigger battles we're sure to witness during summer practices. We continue our Battles series by looking at the battle for the (supposedly) vacant starting DT position. Previous installments: Backup TE, Backup LT, Starting CB, Returners
As the Buffalo Bills' big-name import from the 2008 NFL off-season, defensive tackle Marcus Stroud will not only be an immediate starter, he'll be counted on as a leader from the moment he dons his new red, white and blue uniform. Who will Stroud's running mate be inside? That's the real question, and ultimately, it's a question that probably doesn't need to have a clear answer (and might not when push comes to shove). Meet the candidates for Buffalo's remaining starting DT slot...
The Slight Favorite: Kyle Williams (95)
After signing a 5-year, $14.5 million contract extension with $5.7 million guaranteed earlier this month, Williams - Buffalo's most consistent interior performer last season - seems to have the inside track at earning the honorary role of "starter" next to Stroud. An underwhelming (yet underrated) athlete, Williams has steadily improved over his first two seasons, and his aggressiveness and motor make him a disruptive force up front. A fifth-round pick in 2006, Williams has proven to be an excellent value for the Bills to this point in his career.
The One Guy Who'll Play a Lot: John McCargo (97)
Perhaps the most athletically gifted of Buffalo's interior linemen (notice I didn't say physically gifted; that honor belongs to Stroud), McCargo performed admirably in the second half of the 2007 season and seems poised to become a sparkplug for an exciting young defense this season. Entering his third season as a former first-round draft pick, McCargo - who had to watch the Bills hand out new or revamped contracts to all three interior linemen on this list besides him - might just be the most motivated guy of the bunch.
That Other Guy Who'll Play a Lot: Spencer Johnson (91)
Buffalo's other off-season import at the DT position, Johnson seems the least likely of the three candidates to start simply because he's unique from the group. The smallest and quickest of the four tackles, Johnson will likely be the most specialized; sure, he's been asked to learn both the one-tech and three-tech positions during spring practices, but if there's one tackle who should be playing mostly on passing downs, it's Johnson. He'll play a lot, and he'll even play a lot on run downs. But Johnson, unlike Stroud, Williams and McCargo, is far better suited to playing one phase of the game - which makes him last on this list.
Predicting the Winner
Ultimately, the answer to this question doesn't mean a lot. All three of these players will see significant amounts of playing time this season and are being counted on to play crucial roles in a deep, revamped front four rotation. But one of these guys will be playing more than the others, especially early in games and on early downs. For now, the answer appears to be Williams. However, ideally it will be difficult for Williams to hold off McCargo at some point this season. McCargo has elite ability, and with just a season and five games' worth of experience, it seems likely that he'll really come into his own at some point this season. When (if?) that happens, it will be impossible to deny McCargo a starting role - no matter how much the coaching staff may like Williams or Johnson.
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Depth
This is one of my favorite areas of the team now, and I am very excited to see what kind of upgrade Stroud and Johnson will be, and as well the kind of development Williams and McCargo will have in their third year. I love it
Protect ya neck!
Y'know
I don’t think it really matters who’s starting at the DT position since the scheme will be to rotate frequently, but I really like the depth we have here this season. All the fresh bodies on the D-line should help the D avoid those 4th quarter collapses that cost us a few games last year.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
I want McCargo to develop
I want McCargo to start because, like many of you, I believe that McCargo has the potential to be a force in the middle. By letting him start next to Stroud he has the best chance of learning from the guy and becoming Stroud’s top pupil as well as benefiting from Stroud’s presence thus boosting his confidence. I know he would play a lot regardless of whether or not he started but I just want to put him in there and watch McCargo flourish.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
I am with you poz
to add to your thought, I would like to know what we have in McCargo sooner rather than later in the season. If Stroud gets hurt and McCargo is not up to the job, then we need to be watching the waivers for another run stuffing DT. Or, if a team loses some QBs in camp/preseason, maybe trade JP for a DT.
good call
great point. I think we do know what we have with Kyle Williams and even though I do expect him to continue improving you are dead on. We do need to know what we’ve got and if it turns out that we have a potential star then the coaches have the green light to turn him loose and use him like one.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
I get the thought, which is why I brought it up in the article, but I think the discussion is still relevant because, by and large, one of these guys will probably play more than the other two.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 22, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
someone has to play more…because even though the consensus is that we like most or all of these guys, these are competitive athletes and someone will come out on top. I would like to see a high draft pick like McCargo become a star, but if Johnson is better, i want him in there more. Not saying that he will be, but i want guys in there who are the best. Competition in this league is too high.
With that said, i predict McCargo as the lead man, with Johnson and Williams sharing fill in duty with Johnson also spelling on DE some times
Protect ya neck!
I have heard some rumbling that Ellis'
learning curve is on the wrong side of the bell. If Geronimo is lurking about, how about an update? If true, Johnson may spend more time at DE than we may have first thought.
Roger that
So how about some information about this kid? After all, he was drafted relatively high and will get a pretty good paycheck as a result. I thought the Bills were known for their due diligence on this kind of thing. He was a problem child in college, and it appears he lacks motivation now that he’s made it in the pros. If Ellis goes to the practice squad because of his lethargy, this pick should be scrutinized hard.
by Defensewinsgames on Jul 22, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Since when did hearing nothing about someone become a bad thing? Seriously, I haven’t heard a thing about Chris Ellis since he was drafted (of substance, anyhow). Maybe he’s had a “bad” spring, but it’s just as likely that he’s progressing as expected…
by Brian Galliford on Jul 22, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No news generally isn't good news
If Ellis was doing well I think we’d have seen a Chris Brown puff piece about him by now. I’m not saying the guy is doing bad but rather that good things don’t tend to go unreported—particularly in the duldrums of the offseason.
Maybe true
but how often do you hear about how a DE performs in shorts and a t-shirt? I don’t remember hearing anything about Schobel, Kelsay and Denney either.
Let’s wait until they put the pads on and play some games before getting on Ellis’ case….I just hope he gives us SOMETHING in terms of the pass rush this year….
~K
I get that. What I’m saying that no news isn’t necessarily bad news, either.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 22, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Ellis and no news..
This wasn’t exactly “news,” but a comment that certainly didn’t say nice things about Ellis. It was from the Buff News:
Fewell would like to see rookie Chris Ellis emerge as the fourth end, but the third-round draft pick has to show more than he did in the OTAs and minicamp. Johnson’s ability to play end gives the Bills some flexibility. Copeland Bryan and Shaun Nua will fight for the fifth end spot, assuming Buffalo keeps that many.
"We’ve got to poke Chris Ellis a little bit to get him rolling," Fewell said. "If we can get Chris Ellis rolling, we’ll have what we want depth-wise."
I made a comment in another FanPost that I think it’s pathetic if a rookie 3rd rounder needs to be “poked” to get moving. Like I said in that post, who does Ellis think he is, Bruce?
Not necessarily
Any line position is hard to distinguish in shorts, especially during minicamps. WR, CB, LB, QB; all of those positions will get more play and they do in Chris Brown’s reports. My thinking is, once pads are on, we will hear Ellis’ name, good or “progressing”, “adjusting”, or whatever other word they use that really means he isn’t doing well.
Protect ya neck!
Maybe Johnson instead
If Ellis is a bust, maybe he can get it done. I mean, the guy basically did whatever they asked him to, in Minnesota. Guess he had to, just to get playing time behind the Williams brothers.
Wouldn’t it be cool if he was the kind of guy who could switch around to any of the four positions? I remember the Bills doing that early last year with Hargrove, McCargo, Williams, Kelsay, Schobel and Denny and I thought it lent an attack mode to the defense I haven’t seen in years. Then the injuries started mounting up and we started raiding the Arena League for warm bodies.
I think a 280 pound guy you can put in at defensive end that’s fast and a good pass rusher would be cool.
by Defensewinsgames on Jul 22, 2008 9:05 PM EDT reply actions
Also
Just to mention the “atack mode”, look at the defense we ran against the Cowboys. No one in a stance, and everyone coming at Romo. It really was incredible. If just our offense—...nevermind
Protect ya neck!
What is going on?
Really? Why is everyone talking about Ellis like he is a failure already? Its the start of the training camp season. We know nothing right now. I for one am still optimistic until I am given a real reason not to be. For all you guys who have been pointing out during the off-season our deficiency at the rush, how much worse can Ellis be then Kelsay and Denney last year? Let us wait and see before we judge huh?
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
voted for McCargo
Voted for, and hoping for McCargo, but with William’s new contract and knowing what I know about Dick Jauron, I can see Williams getting the starting nod over McCargo. Hopefully McCargo busts out this year and the Bills lock him up long term. That would allow them to have three of their four DTs lined up long term (with the thirty something Stroud having two years left). Add a young guy in the draft next year and you have a good group of guys with a lot of potential.
If the CB position works out (as I think it will – and Youboyte will but cut or traded this summer), then this team could have real good depth on defense. I may just have to jump on the DE bandwagon next year with K and Sireric (note: I said may, not committing just yet!)
John I.
Wow,
I had no idea my post would hit a raw nerve! At this point, I am not saying Ellis is a bust. I simply heard some of the defensive coaches thought Ellis was behind where they hoped he would be. I freely admit I have no credible source. The focus of my post was that if Johnson needs to spend more time rotating in at DE, he would spend less time at DT. Therefore, if Stroud gets hurt and/or McCargo does not step up, we will need another DT.
mccargo
one of my personal highlights from last season was watching jon mccargo knife through the giants o-line and knock reuben droughns back on 4th and goal. hopefully he’ll be doing that kind of thing a lot next season!
A lot of worrying about
a fourth DE before training camp’s even started. Don’t get anxious just yet, we don’t have much to go on other than Fewell’s quote. He could just be posturing to push this rookie a little harder. We’ll find out soon enough about Chris Ellis.
I would love to see McCargo win the starting job outright. He has shown some flashes, now it’s time for him to take one more step in his development and win a starting job. This season.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
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