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2008 Bills Training Camp: Day Seventeen Breakdown


Loss of Murphy cripples depth at LT (Photo Source)

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The Buffalo Bills returned to the practice field Monday night following their pre-season opening 17-14 loss in Washington, and before the night was out had been dealt a crippling blow to their depth at offensive tackle.  With Jason Peters still MIA amidst a contract holdout, two more tackles - Matt Murphy and Patrick Estes - suffered injuries and left practice early.  The Bills finished practice with just three healthy tackles: Langston Walker, Kirk Chambers and rookie Demetrius Bell.  The seriousness of the two injuries are not yet known, but neither is likely to play in Thursday's pre-season matchup with the Steelers in Toronto.

The loss of Murphy - who performed admirably Saturday night - is especially concerning, as he was working with the second team as the left tackle.  Estes was working with the third team at the same position.  With just three healthy tackles on the roster, the team might have to experiment with players such as Jason Whittle, Robert Felton or Nevin McCaskill at tackle; they could also make a roster move soon.  Jason Peters' holdout has never looked more desperate than it does today.

In other injury news, SS Donte Whitner returned to practice, was subsequently dinged, left, and did not return - again.  It wouldn't be shocking to see him sit out Thursday's game.  LB Blake Costanzo also left early with a minor head injury.  Not participating were wideouts Josh Reed, Scott Mayle and Roscoe Parrish, tight end Tim Massaquoi and linebacker Marcus Buggs.  LB Angelo Crowell participated fully, and DE Copeland Bryan also returned.

Surprise! Offense Goes Deep
The Bills took some serious heat in the press for their incredibly vanilla offensive performance Sunday.  But hark!  Monday night was a smorgasboard of deep passes for Buffalo's offense.  Should we be surprised?

The first beneficiary of the deep passing game was rookie wideout James Hardy. On the third snap in team work Trent Edwards aired out a 50-yard bomb to Hardy on a deep post as he got between Terrence McGee and Ko Simpson, made the catch and completed the 70-yard scoring play.

Show me some of that during actual pre-season action - as well as increased playing time for Trent Edwards - and I'll get excited about this.  For now, it's merely something that sounds good from the practice setting that hasn't translated the field, a.k.a. a disappointment.

Question of the day: Is there seriously a good reason for the Bills to take Edwards and most of the first unit offense off of the field before halftime on Thursday?

The Bills practice at 1PM today, have a closed practice Wednesday, and hit the turf at the Rogers Centre for the first time Thursday.

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I can give you 2 of them…Willis McGahee and Bobby Engram. Hurt for more than just pre-season. 2 more a little closer to home could be Matt Murphy and Patrick Estes. Weren’t there enough guys on IR last year? I see no sense in trying to break the record of 17 before the season starts. Let the starters get their reps the first quarter and then let the scrubs prove themselves.

by JTM1023 on Aug 12, 2008 9:59 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When did Trent Edwards come close to getting hit this past Saturday? The Bills’ O-Line is solid in pass protection, and Edwards’ release is quick enough to keep his jersey clean in August. He needs the experience desperately.

I’m not saying play Evans or Lynch for a half – that would be crazy.

by Brian Galliford on Aug 12, 2008 10:16 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All hurt in practice

This is football, not ping pong. Guys get hurt in numerous ways, during practices and games. It could happen at anytime. I hate trying to avoid injuries by keeping guys out and barely playing starters. That doesn’t prepare a team for the regular season, and we’ve already seen that out of Jauron coached teams. I don’t want to see a Junction Boys type camp, but you run practices and preseason games like you are trying to avoid injuries. That’s a good way for injuries to occur, actually.

Oh, and McGahee came to camp out of shape (Shocker!) and Engram is made of dust at this point. Those guys were asking to be hurt.

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 10:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree

Also you can’t play scared. These guys need to gel and start working better as a unit, that will only happen with more live game action together.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup

It’s one thing for a team like the Colts, Chargers or Pats to rest some of their proven vets, but it’s a whole different beast for a team like us where we need to get young players ready ASAP to contribute. If Jauron is playing these preseason games scared, we’re already screwed….

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Scary Dick

Its true, it seems like we are playing scared, game planning scared and calling plays scared. If are players are good and we execute, than it doesn’t matter what “tape” other teams have on us. Just go out there and get in a rhythm. Just keep Lynch on the sideline, as he is a player who just doesn’t know how to play soft.

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 11:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pass protection

May be less effective this week with the injuries, but I like keeping Edwards in there for the first half for the next two games so he can get some rhythm with the offense, and frankly, any player with mental hang ups, like Schouman and Hardy and whoever else. Lynch, Parrish, Reed, and Evans don’t need to see alot of time, but the other players do, to catch up

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like your new avatar

I would take Pete Metzalaars in his prime right now to help out our offense. He would help our running game, if nothing else. Wishful thinking…

Probably right about keeping Edwards in a little longer the next two games. It’s just a little nerve-wracking when your tackle depth goes <poof>. Edwards needs a little more time for those deep passes, and I don’t know if he will get that from second team players.

Memo to Jason Peters: fire your agent, he’s costing you big money right now.

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Aug 12, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this avatar is going to be permanent for the season I think…I need some stability in my Bills fan life, unlike the OT situation which is now up in smoke.

Its funny because, two years ago, Walker at left tackle, Butler at Right, and Dock, Fowler and Whittle in the middle would have been an upgrade. We need Peters for the regular season. I don’t care when he comes back now, except for the new line calls, etc., but if he is in shape when he is back and ready to go for the Spet. 7th opener, we need him in there

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thursday night

you keep the starters in well into the 2nd Q, and maybe the entire first half if they aren’t showing much. If this team is going to be ready for Seattle and Jacksonville, the team needs to get reps against actual opponents, especially the Offense. We have a new OC, young QB, a shift in philosophy, a rookie WR who will be counted on heavily and an OL that needs work. There is absolutely NO reason for these guys not to get 4-5 series this week. The only guy I would take out early is Lynch because I don’t think he needs the reps that Edwards, Hardy, and the OL needs.

IF we see another 2 series out of the O this week, and then say a half against the Colts, and another couple series in the last preseason game, I will be convinced we aren’t ready for week 1. This team needs reps against a real defense!!!!!!

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with all of this

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 10:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yank Lynch, guy doesn't quit

Give Lynch 1-2 series and get him off the field. He plays the preseason like it was the playoffs, which is nice to see, but not good for my heart or his long term playing health. We need him more than any other player to come out of camp in one piece, so DJ, make sure to get him off the field after a couple of snaps.

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Aug 12, 2008 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Going deeper more

I watched the first half of last night’s Packers/Bengals game because I wanted to see how poorly Rodgers would be treated, which surprisingly wasn’t that bad. What I did like was the way McCarthy ran their Offense and got Rodgers comfortable early.

The first few passes thrown were of the shorter variety, high percentage passes. They utilized a lot of quick slants, something I think our O should be doing. The Pack lines up a WR out wide, really wide, and has him beat the CB to the inside and Rodgers simply has to hit him in stride for a 5-10 yard gain. It is simple enough, and something I think Evans, Hardy, Reed, Jenkins, Roscoe and Johnson could have succeed at, especially the first 3.

After the first few short passes, they started opening it up a bit more. I saw a deep flag pattern, that Rodgers barely overthrew to a wide open James Jones, a deep post to I forget who and another semi-deep post to some scrub who let it hit his chest, pop up in the air and get intercepted. The next possession there were a few short passes and then a deep post to James Jones who broke a tackle, lost his helmet and scored a TD.

Basically, the Pack used the short passing game to get Rodgers comfortable, into a rhythm and to open up the intermediate and long passing game. This is something that we absolutely HAVE to do with Trent. There’s no reason we can’t have a similar philosophy with similar results. We have a good pass protecting OL and WR’s with pretty good hands. Schonert’s talked about the YAC potential of this O, and I think using the Packers blueprint would be a great way to do that.

Also, does anybody know of any potential FA OT’s out there that could help us???? I’ve seen names like Chris Bober and Stocker McDougle, but I think I’m as good as they are at this point….

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You might be better then Bober and McDougle.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Throwing downfield

Just because a play is not executed does not mean that the play was not called. It’s time to find out what Edwards can do.

I am not just interested in the deep ball. I want to see if Edwards has the ability and confidence to consistently hit the deep outs, deep digs, and deep comebacks. Those are 15 to 20 yard throws that need to be flat on a rope. The 18-yarder to Parrish on Saturday night was good. Force defenses to defend the entire field.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Aug 12, 2008 11:22 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

short passing

I agree with that completely. When you have Marshawn and if Jason Peters comes back, defenses will load up in the middle of the field allowing outside WR’s to have one on one battles maybe not down the field but for sure in the 5-15 yd area. Thus the reason Turk I think is going to all those formational shifts pre-snap to get WR’s a head start to get open underneath. He just wants to get the ball out, allow WR’s to catch it and hopefully gain 2, 3, 4, 5, + yards after the catch. But if the run game doesn’t come along, and it won’t without Peters than this offense will really suck

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Aug 12, 2008 4:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would sign...

Stocker McDougle, just because that is an awesome name.

by krytime on Aug 12, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And it's beginning

the players may be starting to grumble about not having Peters:

If that wasn’t enough, Evans also expressed concern about the offence playing without Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters, who has not reported to training camp over a contract dispute. Without Peters, who wants the final three years of his contract restructured, the Bills have been forced to move Langston Walker to the left side, and promote reserve Kirk Chambers to fill in for Walker on the right side.

“To say he’s not a factor would be crazy,” Evans said. “He was a big part of our offence last year and he’s a very good player. We’re missing him but we have to do what we have to do when he’s not here.”

There hasn’t been a whole lot from the players regarding Peters, but that may be slowly changing as the O struggles and we get closer to the season….

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 11:12 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw that too. Part of the reason I love Lee Evans – he tells it like it is.

by Brian Galliford on Aug 12, 2008 11:16 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I found this quote to be of interest

“who wants the final three years of his contract restructured”

When did that information come out? Did I miss something? As far as I knew, there was nary a word said as to what Peters’ wants.

by krytime on Aug 12, 2008 11:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, but you see, that’s the assumption. Everyone assumes that’s what he wants. But you’re right – there hasn’t been clarification as to what Peters really wants.

by Brian Galliford on Aug 12, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Parker

I also read somewhere that Jackson isn’t too happy with Parker, and may want to give him the old heeve ho.

by krytime on Aug 12, 2008 11:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be happy with him either

He’s costing them money. Plus, if he can’t get a deal done for Steven Jackson, who absolutely deserves a new deal, then thta should be a red flag for many guys…

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 11:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd get Lynch and Evans off the field quick

but definitely give Edwards some time to look comfortable and develop some rhythm with Hardy and Parrish. One thing that does/might concern me though is the field. Anyone know how the turf is under football conditions? I know that MLB players have complained about it in the past despite it only being 3 year old FieldTurf.

by twoeightnine on Aug 12, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Butler getting reps at RT

And the shuffling continues

The more we keep doing this, the lesser it seems the line will be any good come week 1. For the love of Jeebus, go get Peters, Front Office…

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 11:47 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Peters

Seriously, unless the guy has gone bezerk, there is no reason to not have dialogue with the guy. Regardless of the fact they are putting a hard-line stance on not talking to him unless he reports. Brandon or Wilson or someone should get on a jet and go talk to him. That’s the only way things get done. That’s the only way the FAVRE thing was resolved was the fact that Favre said, “Screw it, I’m going up there and get this settled once and for all.” And it was within 36 hours. Someone has to be the bigger man and stop having this damn pissing contest and just go and talk it out! For the Love of the Game! I mean, Jauron in his 3rd year, must feel some job security or have no pull if he can’t get the Front Office to go get the best player on the team to report to camp.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Aug 12, 2008 4:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean, Jauron in his 3rd year, must feel some job security or have no pull if he can’t get the Front Office to go get the best player on the team to report to camp.

I really hope the former isn’t true

~K

by Kurupt on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Three and Out Machines ...

I think the Bills might actually use some of they play calling variety we want, but they go three and out so much that can’t get a rythym. When you get first downs you can start setting people up. GET SOME FIRST DOWNS!

by MrFurious1 on Aug 12, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2nd preseason game

the problem is most teams use the 2nd and 3rd preseason game to evaluate backups for roster cuts. given Jauron’s conservative nature I’m sure we won’t see much of Trent this thursday.

by gatornation on Aug 12, 2008 2:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hope not

Even he could see the lack of rhythm on the offensive side of the ball. If he didn’t, those deep set skeleton eyes better head off to the Lasik eye center up in Canada when they go for Thursday’s game. Trent, who i knew would not see much the first game, should play the entire first half the next two games, then chill the fourth. Last year they had Losman play the entire half in last year’s first preseason game, and while Losman looked crappier last year in that role by skipping balls off the turf, it is clear Trent needs more snaps. Just to see some positives would be nice. Just keep Lynch off the field too much. Unless you want to split him out wide a couple times, just to see that

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 2:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree, Edwards needs to play a lot more given the new offensive system installed and the appearance of confusion during the skins game. It’s Edwards’ responsibility to make sure everyone is in the right position pre-snap and he struggled with that last week. I would guess he will be much better this week though, at least I hope so.

by gatornation on Aug 12, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disagree

In my experience teams use the first and fourth preseason game to evaluate the backend of the roster and use the second and third games to prepare for the regular season.

It’s Edwards’ responsibility to make sure everyone is in the right position pre-snap and he struggled with that last week.

How did he struggle with that?
There were a couple of false starts, that you can’t possibly blame on the QB. Hardy’s route mistake was due to his inability to read Blitz. Trent had to call the timeout when Hardy didn’t know what was going on. I thought Trent did just fine orchestrating all the motion.

by kaisertown on Aug 12, 2008 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe we all just wanted to see perfection, and we got a raw young team trying to learn a new offense, and vets on D trying not to get hurt, and a secondary trying to make some plays. This is an interesting setup on Thursday in Toronto for a strange type of barometer, in which the Bills are now playing a pre-season game with more hype than most, and probably any the Bills have ever played.

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Aug 12, 2008 6:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with...

Brian. Keep Edwards in a little longer. He can certainly use the practice. If teams start coming at him harder and actually get through, then take him out. He looked sloppy against the Skins and needs to be better prepared for the Seattle game. Just playing against the Bill’s defense in practice isn’t going to help him with that.

Wearing my Bills jersey to the Eagles-Bills game last year in Philly probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. But then again, that's why they call me die-hard.

by FemaleFanatic85 on Aug 12, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point about seeing different defences. Trent needs to see some different looks then what Perry Fewell has been throwing at him for the past month. I would like to see him play at least close to a full half.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 12, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is Jason Peters injured?

Maybe the reason Peters is not in camp is that his late season injury was more serious than first reported. A team player like Jason would not let down his team and teammates down, not to mention suffering hefty fines for not reporting. What do you think?

by gjv on Aug 13, 2008 3:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unlikely, in my opinion. If he’s hurt, why isn’t he letting the Bills’ award-winning training staff treat him? No, this isn’t injury-related, methinks…

Welcome to the site, btw. :)

by Brian Galliford on Aug 13, 2008 3:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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