2008 Bills Training Camp: Days 23/24 Breakdown
After over three weeks of training camp practices, the Buffalo Bills are just two sessions shy of wrapping up 2008 Bills Training Camp at St. John Fisher College. Unbelievable, right? With camp closing after Wednesday's practice concludes, several story lines are becoming prevalent again; and, of course, the Bills continue to make stories on the practice field as well. Here's what we should be talking about as training camp comes to a close...
Peters Watch: Decision Time?
In case you took a holiday to Mars in March and are only just now returning to this glorious planet, Bills LT Jason Peters hasn't reported to Buffalo since taking a physical in early January. Holding out for more money, the break of training camp seems a logical place to get a further reading on Peters' intentions for the 2008 season. Will he report with camp over, or will he continue his holdout? If he continues to stay away, it's likely that he'll be sitting out at least a portion of the regular season.
WGR 550 mentioned on this morning's "Howard Simon Show" that Bills LG Derrick Dockery - the only Bills player to have communicated with Peters (via text message) that we know of - mentioned that he believes Peters will be reporting for team duties "soon". Whether this manifests into truth remains to be seen, but that - coupled with the fact that the Bills made no attempt to sign a replacement tackle after the injury to Matt Murphy - are encouraging signs for fans who'd like to see Peters report ASAP. Stay tuned - we should be hearing much more on this throughout the rest of the week.
New Deal for Evans Imminent?
Rumors have been circulating ever since this past Thursday's pre-season win over Pittsburgh that WR Lee Evans and the Bills are coming closer to agreeing on a long-term contract extension. COO Russ Brandon, who mentioned that he'd like to see Evans in a Bills uniform for the rest of his career, and Evans both confirmed that talks were moving in the right direction late last week.
Evans' deal is expected to be huge, and should it happen quickly, it will really solidify Buffalo's receiving corps for the foreseeable future. This one seems to be much closer than any return by Peters, and it's expected that the ink will be dry on a new contract for Evans by the start of the regular season.
On/Off the Field
The Bills held a night practice Sunday evening and followed it up with an afternoon practice yesterday. The Bills are steadily getting healthier, highlighted by the return of WR Josh Reed to the practice field. Reed's lower back had kept him out of several practices and both pre-season games, but his back is now fine - though he's not completely out of the woods yet. Reed has re-assumed his role of "Trent Edwards' favorite underneath target" immediately since his return; Edwards has spoken glowingly of Reed all week.
“I’m very, very happy with the progress that Josh has made this offseason,” said Edwards. “I was happy with the way he practiced during OTAs and minicamps and he’s progressed a ton since last year, so I’m excited for him this year.”
OT Patrick Estes, injured last week, also returned to the practice field. Missing practice time over the past two days were TE Derek Schouman (who could miss several weeks), WR Scott Mayle, WR Roscoe Parrish (minor knee), WR James Hardy (resting hamstring), CB Kennard Cox and SS Donte Whitner (excused - family).
Position Battles Still Heated
Several position battles are still making headlines over the last few practices of training camp. Let's review:
- RB Xavier Omon took second-team reps yesterday ahead of second-year pro Dwayne Wright, indicating that the rookie has snuck ahead of Wright in the battle for the team's #3 RB role. Wright's fumbles appear to be the culprit.
- Receivers James Hardy and Josh Reed appear to be neck-and-neck for the starting role opposite Lee Evans. Both are expected to be heavily involved in Buffalo's offense.
- With Derek Schouman ailing, rookie TE Derek Fine's solid performances could lead to him staying on the field ahead of Schouman when the latter returns from his knee injury. Courtney Anderson's chances at making the final roster have improved as well.
- Both Kyle Williams and Spencer Johnson - as well as John McCargo to an extent - are vying for the starting DT role next to Marcus Stroud. All three are expected to factor in heavily, but it appears that Williams and Johnson in particular are making strong cases to see the bulk of playing time between the three bigs.
- Terrence McGee and Jabari Greer are entrenched as the starting corners, but the battle for the nickel job is heating up. Will James is the likely starter at this point, but rookie Leodis McKelvin - as well as fellow rookie Reggie Corner - are making a late push for the role. It's expected that James will man the nickel spot to start the season (with McKelvin taking dime work), but the first-round pick should take over the third slot well before the end of the season.
The Bills have their final night practice tonight, and follow it up with an afternoon practice Wednesday to close out their three-week stay at St. John Fisher. We'll discuss the events of those two practices - as well as events tied in with the end of camp - as it happens.
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41 comments
Comments
Hope Evans signs soon
I think once they get Lee taken care of, they can turn their attention to JP. No, not the Terrorist Bear, the holdout LT we’ve discussed ad nauseum. Like Brandon, I’d like to see Evans in a Bills uniform for the rest of his NFL career. He’s a valuable part of this offense.
Schouman and Fine may be getting more attention right now, but I’m convinced that Royal will be the starting TE for at least Week 1 of the regular season. He seems to have answered his wake-up call this off-season. Hope he keeps it up, for his sake.
Liked seeing Stroud’s interview of Spencer Johnson over on the buffalobills.com site. Especially liked Johnson’s diplomatic assessment of his defensive line coach, Bill Kollar. You could tell he was trying not to say too much about his coach. Funny. Nice change of pace from Brownie’s usual fare…
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think Peters will be reporting soon. Once camp breaks, there is a good chance he’ll show up and see if negotiations can be had. I think Dockery’s ‘message’ and as you mentioned, the fact we didn’t sign a OT replacement, seem to be good signs potentially pointing to Peters coming in soon. Once he held out for that long, there was no reason, other than the fines and to get in better game shape, for Peters to show up before camp breaks. Once the team returns to Buffalo, I’m really hoping Peters makes his way in. I can hope can’t I?
Hopefully, an Evans deal gets done ASAP as well. This will also pave the path for Peters’ possible negotiations. I’m still dreading the $$$ Evans gets because I think it’s going to be even more than we would all expect/hope. In fact, I’m guessing if a deal is done soon, Evans will be one of the 5 highest paid WR’s, maybe top 3. That would be ridiculous, but such is the nature of the biz currently. Would he be worth that much? No way, but he’s a quality individual, quality player and a guy with room to grow still. We know he’s one of the best deep threats, if not the best, in the league. I won’t totally criticize any deal he gets because he is a guy that deserves to be in Buffalo and a guy who represents the organization quite well.
I really think Reed could be in for a surprising year if he stays healthy. Assuming he stays in the slot all season and continues the strong rapport w/Edwards, I think he can catch 60-70 balls this year. Edwards really, really loves him and I think with Schonert’s quick decision O, Reed should really benefit. I almost want to say he’ll catch more balls than Evans, but I’m not sure I want to go there yet. I know he’s not a great threat, but he is a good fit for our O. He isn’t likely to score more than 2-3 TD’s, but he should be a major target between the 20’s. Eat your heart out Nick.
I’m wondering why Greer hasn’t seen any time in the slot yet. If McKelvin wins the 3rd CB role, I think he belongs on the outside and Greer should slide inside. He seems to be a better matchup there with his quickness, and he’s unlikely to get overpowered by big WR’s in the slot. Just a thought.
~K
by Kurupt on Aug 19, 2008 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
top 5 salary
A top 5 salary shouldn’t surprise us, as you said it is the nature of the biz. If I’m not mistaken Bernard Berrian now has the 4th highest WR salary in the league. Considering what Berrian got, whatever Lee Evans gets will be fair by that scale. But man oh man, are these salaries getting bigger every year.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
by poz on Aug 19, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reed
If Reed catches 60-70 balls that would be amazing. But I see what you are saying. It seems this offense is trying to get the ball out very quickly. A lot of deep ins, and then underneath routes with slot WR’s, TE’s and RB’s.
On the Jason Peters note, what I am most interested to see is what he would do to the Chemistry of this team. He will be way behind on terminology, play calling, audibles and presumably game shape. Not to mention there will be an awkward silence among him, his teammates and the coaching staff. I think it greatly prevents him from playing at a Prow Bowl level again. IN fact, I have never been awed by his play on the field. In fact, i was schocked to see him a Pro Bowler last year. That said, he has great natural ability, but he needs OTA’s, training camp and being around his teammates to get better to really help this team.
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Aug 19, 2008 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
reed needs to go
we have seen this guy for years and we know what he can bring to the table. we almost cut him last year, should have. he couldnt make another team in this league. we need to give someone else a chance and make their catches, mean something. slot guy like parrish, could make quite difference
by Bluebill on Aug 19, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure where you heard that Josh Reed was almost cut last year, but it’s not close to being true. He was the team’s #3 receiver until Peerless Price got hurt, then assumed a starting role.
Why on earth would you cut a guy because “we know what he can bring to the table”? From what I’ve seen, what he brings to the table is a safety valve for Edwards. You want to cut a guy that Edwards will undoubtedly use as a crutch?
My guess is that Parrish will make a bigger difference this season, even with Reed on the field.
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless I’m mistaken, I’m pretty sure Reed had 50+ catches last year which was good for 2nd on the team. That with an unsure rookie at QB. Now with Edwards having some experence under his belt you want to cut Reed? Doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. I feel like these arguments have been made somewhere before.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Aug 19, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You people are f-ing nuts
According to NFL.com, 116 WRs caught TD passes last season and Reed wasn’t one of them while STARTING for the Bills. Sireric, that offense last year was unquestionably broke. Reed’s standing on the team’s statistical leaderboard is more telling of his inability to succeed rather than an example of his talent. Reed’s in his 7th year. He’s not going to improve at this point; he is who he is. The debate on Reed is whether you agree with OBD that what he brings to the table is good enough for one of your top 3 receivers. To me, 36 catches, 400 yards, and 1.2 TD’s a season is for 7-9 teams that don’t score nearly enough points to win on a consistent basis. Other Bills’ fans and OBD seem to believe that offense is an extension of the kicking game and Reed’s ability to avoid the end zone at all costs has contributed mightily to Brian Moorman’s excellent decade in Buffalo. To each his own. I don’t care if Reed is 2nd on the team in catches (where was in terms of offensive snaps for a receiver? I’m pretty sure it was 2nd); he doesn’t produce.
Never forget 56-10. Revenge.
by SuperFan82 on Aug 19, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all had this argument before
So I won’t get into it too much. I agree that his stats leave plenty to be desired, I just don’t see a team cutting the guy who finished 2nd on the team is catches the year before, espesially given how the offense struggled last year. Would I love to say that they Bills have better talent at WR right now, and that they would be better off cutting Reed? Yes, but I don’t see it. Thats why he doesn’t get cut.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Aug 19, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs out of the rotation at the very least...
I can’t see how Jenkins or Parrish or anyone else will ever get more catches and have the chance to produce more substantially if they remain locked behind a player that OBD irrationally puts out there for 50-80% of the plays each season. He doesn’t have to be cut; it’s not my money. He just needs off the field.
Never forget 56-10. Revenge.
by SuperFan82 on Aug 19, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his back continues to give him problems, you may get your wish.
I honestly don’t think that the coaching staff will stick with Reed if they feel that there is someone better behind him. If Jenkins, Parrish, Johnson, or Huggins prove that they are better (this will happen in practice most likely) then Reed will be out.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Aug 19, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waive the Fines?
I know this is premature, but I want to poll some of you guys about whether the Bills should waive the fines levied on Peters for his missing camp — if it really is over $15,000 a practice, it adds up to a material amount. If Peters and his agent come to the realization that the Bills will not budge on an extension/new contract, then they probably will make it a condition that the accumulated fines be waived. Should the Bills waive that if Peters shows up? Or should the Bills deter anyone else from holding out in the future by staying firm on the fines? No doubt Peters would have to show up even if the Bills still fine him, but it would make him even more upset at the Bills. On the other hand, if no fines are assessed, basically anyone can hold out and miss camp and not lose anything by doing so.
by labill on Aug 19, 2008 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand this statement:
If Peters and his agent come to the realization that the Bills will not budge on an extension/new contract, then they probably will make it a condition that the accumulated fines be waived.
They’ll make that a condition to what? His return? The Bills can then just laugh in Peters’ face if he did that. That’s like giving a kid detention for putting gum on the bottom of a desk, and the kid saying “I’ll take the gum off if you don’t give me detention.”
The only way the fines get waived are in a new deal, and I don’t see that happening any time soon. The Bills are getting a lot of money from Peters due to this holdout, and apparently, Peters doesn’t feel too bad parting with it, either.
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is
$15,000 a day not per practice
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Aug 19, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which means that over the length of training camp, including today, Peters is in the hole about $375K.
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peters Should Pass the Bill to Parker
The fines should be enforced. In fact, I think the Bills should seriously consider suing him for his signing bonus if he misses a game. Peters is not very bright. He had/has no leverage at all. With one year left, he definately has leverage, but not with three. If I was was Peters, I’d tell Parker to pay the fines. It was his strategy. Honestly, I would rather go forward with guys that want to play, than put up with Peter’s approach. I have no problem him wanting a raise … he deserves it. But it’s not the right way. The Bills can carry on without him.
by MrFurious1 on Aug 19, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chump change
to a guy making upwards of $3 million this season. Does put a dent in the piggy bank if you’re holding out, though. Argue if you want. Yes, it’s significant to us peons who are not pulling in 6 (or 7) figure salaries. The bigger issue was correctly stated above, however, that the time lost with teammates and coaching staff with negatively affect his performance on the field this year.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it isnt exactly chump change
if he’s making 3 mil a year 375,000 is a lot more than chump change. I mean, thats basically a guy making 60K a year being fined by his employer for $8,000. Thats quite a bit more than chump change.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
by poz on Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike us, though
This is not going to put a dent in Jason’s grocery budget like it would for you and me. He’s not going to have to tighten his belt and see where he can cut corners (like raising insurance deductibles), so he can keep up with his payments. You and I, my friend, are in an entirely different boat, when it comes to the relative impact of a fine, proportional or not.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
thats a good point, he certainly won’t have to dig deep for any essentials or basic services like we would (man, I wish I was making 3 mil a year) but at the same time I do think the fines are enough that he would take notice and maybe even have to change his lifestyle a bit. If Clinton Portis were fined 375,000 that would be nothing, he wouldnt even feel it. I guess my point for Peters is that while it may not force him to reconsider his financial options, it certainly has to be getting to him that hes losing a noticeable amount of money; hence not chump change. But yes I concede that you are right that proportionally the comparison between a $3 mil and 60K salary isn’t really compatible.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
by poz on Aug 19, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relative
I was using the phrase “Chump Change” rather loosely before, but I believe it’s relative depending on how much you make. What you think of as chump change now as a working adult is probably more than what you thought it was in junior high, for example.
Will Jason notice those fines? You bet. Will they ruin his ability to maintain his lifestyle? Probably not, although he may regret this decision later in his life after he retires…
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget:
Peters isn’t in the same tax bracket as 60k man, his take home pay isn’t $3m.
by twoeightnine on Aug 19, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be glad
to trade paychecks with him anytime. ;)
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow -- that's a lot
By the time he shows up at the end of the preseason, he could owe the Bills well over $500k — isn’t that a huge part of his actual base salary? I do think that that fine will be the fight now as a condition to his showing up. I feel the same way you guys do — Peters should face the consequences of his actions. I am just not sure the Bills will try to collect if he does show up.
by labill on Aug 19, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn’t they try to collect?! You don’t think the team is justifiably p1$$ed off about this situation? I don’t foresee any circumstance in which the Bills forgive any part of their fines simply because they’re happy/relieved Peters decided to finally show up.
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you — I would not waive the fines. I just think that now that the fines are so large, this may end up being the fight (after having come to terms with not getting a new contract or extension) where Peters will say I am not showing up unless the Bills waive the fines. I hope the Bills do not agree to that. Also, isn’t his actual pay this year much less than $3 million — and from that, he has to pay 3% to his former agent; and about 42% in taxes? I think $500k plus is going to be a huge chunk of his net income.
by labill on Aug 19, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said before – if Peters makes a request that unbelievably lame, the Bills can just laugh in his face. Seriously. I don’t think Peters would do that, though, because the chances of those fines being forgiven are so remote. He has to realize that.
by Brian Galliford on Aug 19, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bills hold three years of Peters’ prime portion of his career in their hands right now. Jason had to know that he would get fined for missing camp. That’s part of why players typically don’t holdout (another part is the large paychecks compared to yesteryear). If he’s expecting to negotiate away a fine with Buffalo, he’s delusional. The Bills FO decides that matter, not Peters.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why I love LTs
The best part about having a Pro Bowl left tackle who is so young like Jason is that Pro Bowlers primes start in their twenties and last through their mid to late 30s. We’ll have Peters as a Bill for life I hope, we’re pretty lucky to have him and as you said, even luckier to have the first three years of his prime locked up.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
by poz on Aug 19, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess... the new contract will defray the fines.
The Bills can’t waive the fines or it will just bite them in the end when the next unhappy player comes along thinking that a hold-out will help his cause. They also have to negotiate a new contract with Peters once he shows up (assuming they still want him around, which of course they do). The resulting contract will essentially repay Peters over time for any fines he paid to the franchise—just don’t expect to find that in writing anywhere.
by Optimist on Aug 19, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's talk
about the position battles instead. What’s the scoop on the DT job next to Stroud? Who has the edge? What about the WR#2 position? Is SF82 shocked that his favorite player has a legit shot at the #2 WR job? Omon! Is Wright done as a Bill?
Get the Bills back to the big game!
by Blitz on Aug 19, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Omon v Wright
I think Omon would have to screw up royally at this point to lose the 3rd position in the depth chart. Wright seems to have picked up exactly where he left off last season, if not gotten even worse at protecting the football. At least with Omon there’s still evidence that he is the value pick the Bills hoped they were getting. I don’t think Wright will be cut, though. The Bills kept 4 RBs on the roster last year, didn’t they? Lynch, A-Train, Jackson, Wright?
by Optimist on Aug 19, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They started the season with five and ended with three
Scobey was the fifth. Also remember, Fred Jackson was the third quarterback for half the season, using up one inactive spot…
by Krenn on Aug 19, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that’s right – they ended with four. Almost forgot the re-signing of Shaud Williams at the end of the year.
by Krenn on Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note that the fine is actually up to $15K/day, not a set amount. So the Bills can charge anything they want – the maximum seems to be just for players who really annoy management. (Ashley Lelie…)
I’m guessing they’ll cut the fines in half if he signs a new contract; that’s similar to what the Giants did for Strahan’s half-million in fines last year.
by Krenn on Aug 19, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think
the Bills at the end of the day are doing the right thing. Which is: Reward a guy who has never missed anything and is a model citizen and player – Lee Evans and: don’t reward a player who signed a new deal a couple years back and who just decided to not show up for anything – Jason Peters
The ethics of the thing is right on and the way they are handling it in the end will be good for the organization, for the mission of the organization, for the future of the organization, and for the Fans. The only way this is a loss is if Peters holds out all year, which would take some serious balls.
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Aug 19, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the subject, but if I am Chris Ellis
I am jacked about my chance to blow up Brett Farve AND Tom Brady twice a season. How’s that for the glass half full? I am happy to see the coaching staff is paying extra attention to the rookie.
by thurman on Aug 19, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ellis
I was surprised how big Ellis looks in pads. He seems to lack the pure strength he needs to overpower some Tackles, but he has nice speed and agility. I think the kid has some promise.
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Aug 19, 2008 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ellis is fast
the size of ends is not always important. look at Jason Taylor. he must weigh about 240/ 230 and he has more sacks than anyone. I know its all about speed with him
by Bluebill on Aug 19, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've Come A Long Way
It’s nice that McKelvin and Ellis can be role players. Everybody wants to catch lightening in a bottle with rookies, but the more natural route is for them to learn and contribute behind starters, and then make BIG steps in year two. This team would have had to start those guys in the past. Marv hated starting rookies and Jauron is the same way.
by MrFurious1 on Aug 19, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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