My four days at Bills Camp
Hello Rumblers! It is Sunday evening and I've just returned from four fun and action-filled days at Saint John Fisher College and Buffalo Bills training camp. I am tired but excited, and wanted to get this full report up for the group's information. As usual, I had a lot of unfettered access and if nothing else, the people who comprise OBD have again proven to be the classiest, and just plain nicest folks you could want to meet.
I know this report will not address everything and every player you want to know/hear about, but this does comprise the high spots at least in my estimation.
What am I totally jazzed about? The defense!!!! I am stoked folks, and you should be too. In my opinion we are looking at a top ten defense. Marcus Stroud looked immense in my time there - he has a first punch that is powerful, splits the double team like an All Pro and if we had done nothing else but add him in the off-season, we would be hugely improved. I saw nobody block him 1-1, and this is NOT a knock on our O-Line. Can he keep it up? I think the simple key here is to carefully gauge his snaps and run our four man rotation regularly. If he remains healthy and fresh, he will make a BIG difference. Paul Posluszny looked terrific and bigger than I recall. Donte Whitner has stepped it up big-time - he is everywhere, and has assumed the role of a vocal leader. Love it!!
By far the biggest surprise to me was Kawika Mitchell. I had seen him play many times, but was not ready for exactly how steady he is, how sturdy at the point of attack he is, and what a great leader he is. He is NOT a loud rah-rah guy, but in my estimation he has already become the leader of the defense. He and Poz are inseparable and he is constantly patting backs, softly critiquing and just flat out hustling. They call it leading by example. What a great signing.
In the backfield, I thought Ko Simpson looked fine and with his greater foot speed and range should hold off the heady George Wilson for the FS job. I know everybody is thinking about LCB as am I. During my time there, Jabari Greer took all the #1 unit snaps and Will James was the starting nickel. Now I am on the record as believing that Greer's year last year was overrated, and that we somehow mistook hustle and guts for production. I believed that he is simply too small to line up on the outside. I may be wrong. He is so quick. He has such an outstanding break to the ball that it may compensate for the lack of size against all but the biggest receivers. Time will tell - and I still will bet that at some point this year Leodis McKelvin will challenge there. I am not a huge James fan, and think that Leodis has a very strong chance to win the nickel job outright before the season starts. I watched him a lot. What is interesting, at least to me, is that he is much better in team drills (7-7, 11-11) than in individual drills. That tells me that he is hugely instinctual and athletic, but his technique needs a lot of work. I saw DB coach George Catavalos spend oodles of time with him (let's not forget it was his first week in camp) as well as with Reggie Corner. Corner was not nearly as quick as I thought he would be, but he makes plays. Just a football player. I like him. It is just so hard at this point to figure where Youboty fits - I think the coaches are pleased with him, but I am not sure how much.
In other areas of the D, Spencer Johnson pulled off a rare "hat-trick" on Saturday morning, consecutively beating Fowler, Butler and Chambers in 1-1 drills sending Stroud into fits of apoplexy. I do not believe that the coaches feel he can play 50 snaps a game, but he can be a very valuable role guy. I have no idea if he will make the team, but Marcus Buggs hits you coming off the bus, and hustles his butt off. Aaron Schobel was not there this week, and honestly Chris Ellis did not stick out in any way. If you are worried about special teams with all of the departures, you can feel a lot better knowing that John DiGiorgio and Keith Ellison will be back on teams full-time. Along with John Wendling, Bryan Scott and some of the new guys, I would not lose any sleep on this.
Offensively: honestly, I am concerned and it it all goes back to one thing. Jason Peters. Had he been with the team throughout the OTAs, minicamp and preseason, my optimism would be off the map. But he has not and Lord knows when or if he will come back. My latest sense is that this is NOT the agent's doing....he is not "holding" Peters out, but rather it is simply something the player is doing, for whatever the reason on his own. The feeling is that even if he were to come back on the eve of the season and in shape (a big assumption), he could not contribute immediately. Every single line call has changed under Turk Schonert as have many of the blocking schemes with Sean Kugler taking over as O-Line coach from Mouse McNally. There will be a HUGE mental adjustment for Peters to be able to play. I thought Langston Walker played well at RT last year, but can he play LT? I am not sure in the least. I do not understand why some people think Kirk Chambers is a possible cut. I saw nothing that would indicate that - but will tell you that Demitrius Bell is going to be a player in the league, just not this year. He is agile, hostile and hard-working, but incredibly weak in the upper body. Matt Murphy is also a hard worker, but I just can't see him starting, at least at the outset of the season. I hope whatever is in Peters' head disappears. He is desperately needed.
On the plus side offensively, Marshawn Lynch looked fabulous as did Freddie Jackson. Trent looks a lot bigger and more confident. I saw a LOT of formations where Lynch and/or Jackson went in motion and lined up wide - this may well be how Turk intends on attacking the safety to keep Lee Evans in single coverage. I like that. Lee looks great and I was highly impressed by Stevie Jackson! He can run, catch and leap. If he can find a way to contribute to special teams, he may make it to the game day 45 and surprise us. The biggest disappointment in my time there was that James Hardy did not participate in team drills at all and I have nothing to evaluate him on. I do think that the coaches like his work ethic, and attention to detail. They have high hopes as do we, but I think his time, at least until he earns more, will be situational.
I defy any of you to tell the difference between Derek Schouman and Derek Fine. They are look-alikes who both block and are sure-handed. Fine is a bit bigger I thought, but they caught everything thrown at them while I was there. Yes, I know - they are not Antonio Gates getting down the field - but we could do worse.
I have no idea what to make of the 3rd RB duel between Dwayne Wright and Xavier Omon. I was disappointed in the way both of them ran. They seemed to be thinking far too much, and simply not squaring their shoulders and getting down the field. In one blitz pick up drill I watched closely, Wright simply "fanned" on three straight blitzes by a lone rusher. Exit Trent in a real game. By the way, Marshawn and Jackson are both outstanding blitz blockers.
I will answer questions if you have them, but I have droned on long enough. One final point - and this was as interesting to me as anything else I saw while at St. John Fisher - the elapsed time between rookie LB Bowen going down and the signing of of Donnie Spragan (nice pick-up) was just a few hours. They had his agent on the phone while Bowen was still on campus and not the hospital. This really impressed me. Excellent teamwork and preparation by John Guy, Dick Jauron, Jim Overdorf and Russ Brandon. Just something to noodle over. They got him while he was on his way to Foxboro to visit the Pats - never a bad thing!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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Thanks for your thoughts, and looking forward to more people's as well
I like that you noticed how quick our FO was to snag Spraggan, a good move, and one that may pay off down the road.
Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....
Unfettered access
Does the front office not know why Peters is holding out? Is it just money or something else?
Luved the analysis....
Overall… Esp about Stroud and Jackson… To bad Hardy was out… Been reading good stuff about Royal this week, would you break down the TE situation a bit more as you saw it???
As always, Thanx Geronimo…
Answers
First—to answer Ron from NM. I do not believe that anybody in the world except Jason Peters knows why he is holding out. The front office can assume it is about $$, but then again, he will not talk with them, and now they will not talk with him until he gets into camp.
Cinga—I did not mean to forget about Royal. Yes, I thought he looked good this week. I would guess that he and Schouman are 1 and 2 in that order, with Fine coming in on 3 TE sets. It also should be noted that Barnes has some real rocks in his pockets as a natural FB, and we’ll see some, but a lot less instances where a TE is lining up in the backfield.
Geronimo
I
do not believe that anybody in the world except Jason Peters knows why he is holding out. The front office can assume it is about $$, but then again, he will not talk with them, and now they will not talk with him until he gets into camp.
Fits with what I wrote about on the front page.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Darn it Joe....
Would ya change your avatar??? Havein’ a hard time payin’ attention to your posts!!!!! LOL!!!!
As for Hamden… Don’t worry my friend… If neither Trent or JP make it, UGA has Stafford in the waiting for us!!!
That is the idea
That way, nobody will care that I don’t know what the hell I am talking about! LOL!!!
Oh contrare....
My friend… We know your knowledge of FB and our Bills are admirable…. But then, so is your avatar…. And darn it!!!! Football just started tonight!!! Time for the wenches (wait, stop….), or rather our better halves, to take a back seat!!! Unless they luv dem Bills too!!!!
Thanks Geronimo
The Peters situation is really starting to concern me. I wish there was some confirmation as to what this holdout means on his part. Is it solely $$? Is there an unknown injury? Does he hate training camp? I wish he would talk to the FO. If this continues, do you think someone from the FO would actually go out and visit him to speak with him? They NEED to know what’s going one pretty dang soon.
Glad most of you have the defensive optimism, but I still don’t feel it yet. Not with the questionable secondary and the well below average pass rush. I think the secondary will be much stronger as the season progresses, so that’s not as concerning to me, but the pass rush was terrible last year and I really don’t know how much better it’ll be this year. Hopefully, Stroud can help push the pocket in the middle, a healthier Denney/Kelsay can give us something, and Ellis is able to contribute in passing situations. Maybe Schobel can get to the QB more often this year, with an improvement in pressures. I’d also like to see Fewell use Mitchell A LOT in blitz packages. That guy is a terror off the edge and it’d be brainless not to use him in that capacity. That is one way we can improve on the pathetic pass rush.
I do think the run D will be much improved, assuming we stay healthy in the front 7.
I really think this O is screwed if we are without Peters for any time. The run game suffers and Trent will be more exposed to injury and pressures. We may be able to get by for a week or two, at most, but it will be a MAJOR issue if Peters does not play, or is not ready to play, in week 1.
Glad to hear another glowing review of Steve Johnson. I loved that pick and he has continuously shown he has talent and ability. I really hope we are able to keep him on the roster. Hopefully, he proves himself on ST, especially at the gunner position, as a potential replacement to Jenkins. I’d hate to have to cut a talent like Johnson because of ST play. I think he makes it though, regardless of whether Jenkins does or not.
Also good to hear that Lynch has really fortified his blitz pickup. It definitely improved over last season, but it sounds as if he’s really worked hard at that aspect to be very good at it now.
Good stuff on the Spragan signing, which could turn out to be a very solid pickup for us.
~K
thanks Geronimo
great read. Question: You mentioned that Kawika has become a team leader. Who has stepped it up on the other side of the ball? Any noticeable leadership on offense you saw?
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
Leadership
I think Poz makes an interesting observation and a good point. I really didn’t see any one “leader” on offense, and it struck me while there that indeed most of the noticable leadership was on D and on Special teams. Dock and Walker would be candidates, Trent in his 4th or 5th year, but not now. Royal has leadership qualities, but nobody really sticks out. It is a void .
Geronimo
Lynch
Like I have seen, Lynch is the most impressive athlete and certainly the bet ofensive player on this team all around. His blocking was very noticable.
Thanks Geronimo, a great assessment. Peters didn’t scare me much before, but as the days go, and hearing about the mental catch up he will have to do, I am very scared of the possibility of him not starting. I mean, does he have character issues? From all I’ve read he doesn’t but this is just crazy
Protect ya neck!
Who was that Oakland Raider?
Who was that Oakland Raider who broke down mentally before the Super Bowl against the Bucs? Lets hope Peters isnt a headcase like that guy.
McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year
Let's hope for Peters sake
that guy (Barret Robbins) was shot 3 times and charges with attempted felony murder, was sentenced to 5 year probation somehow and needed to get his bipolar disorder treated. He had a parole violation sometime in 2007 and has been AWOL ever since with the police being unable to locate him for extradition back to FL. I really hope for Peters’ sake that it’s nothing remotely similar to what that guy has. Yikes
~K
great stuff
as always Geronimo. Greatly appreciated. Now I feel I have some good info to start evaluating the team in 2008. From what I have read from Geronimo and CB and other articles and insiders, is that the Defense is better up the middle but I think the pass rush will still prevent the defense from truly dominating.
I also think that the holdout of Jason Peters combined with the lack of playmaking ability of a TE is problematic. This all goes back to me being exasperated by the Derek Fine selection bc as Geronimo points out he is “THE EXACT SAME PLAYER AS SCHOUMAN.” Which blows my mind as to why they drafted Fine when they had Schouman and could have traded up two spots to get Rucker. But I’ll let it slide. Overall I think the offense will struggle to put up points again. There is only so much you can expect a 2nd year QB to improve. Sure Lynch is a stud, but without a O-line that gels through training camp, and that won’t happen w/o Peters, the Offense is behind the 8 ball.
I guess what I am saying is that all these high hopes I felt around NFL Draft time, are starting to dissipate as I realize some expectations are not likely to be met with the current state of affairs. But, we are still 0-0 and hope is in the air
MARVelous
Very helpful...
Marcus Stroud looked immense in my time there – he has a first punch that is
powerful
Was anyone else thinking of Steve Smith? We don’t want Stroud’s punches to get him suspended!
Just wondering, who are the leaders right now on special teams?
Gotta agree
on your assessment of Kawika. Thought he was a depth player signing in the wake of the blockbuster for Marcus Stroud, but Mitchell has impressed me with the way he goes about business on the field and as a lockerroom leader. Great signing for the Bills organization. The improved starting cast should help Schobel get back to being the QB pressure guy we know he can be.
I think at this point that even if Peters does make it into camp, he is more likely to get injured because he hasn’t been involved in team activities or under the strength and conditioning program supervision. I hope that he is doing O.K. The silence has a few of us concerned that maybe this is not the case. There is no reason for the “total radio silence”.
Glad to hear Lynch and Jackson are doing well in pass blocking. We may need the extra help this year, especially against the “big boys” of the AFC. I remember how good Thurman was at blocking, and hope these guys can be that good.
Wonder how that TE competition is going to shake out? That seems to be the most interesting position battle so far.
Thanks for the post, Geronimo.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Great Kawika Story
Here is a story that I heard while I was at Camp. It is the off-season and the team is in the off-season conditioning program. Before OTAs even. There is no set schedule. Just come in-do your lifting and make sure you complete your program before you head home. It is 7:30 AM and Kawika is lifting along with Pos and Ellison. Another veteran comes in (the name does not matter) around 9:30 and starts joking around with the LBs. Kawika’s response: “If you want to come in and hack around with us-fine, you’re welcome to. But do it at 7:30 when we’re just starting….not 9:30.”
Not bad. That’s leadership.
Geronimo
A quick question...
First – nice report. Now, just curious, but what gives you the impression that Peters’ agent is not holding him out? Parker has a reputation as a hardball kind of guy. And any ideas as to why he himself (Parker) hasn’t made a public comment on this holdout?
Geronimo Q
What is your personal take of how the Bills front office should handle the Peters Hold out.
Pay him b/f he gets to camp and become very proactive
Pay him only when he shows up assuming he is healthy…just wait for him to show
Do not pay him until next year…similar to the Bengals with Chad Johnson
Some other option
a little late...
a little late with my response, but better late then never!
First, great report Geranimo, as always, much appreciated! A few questions/observations from things I’ve read about camp from the last week or so:
1. As training camp progresses it seems less and less likely that McKelvin or Hardy will have an immediate impact – especailly Hardy. The odds are stacked against a rookie receiver as it is, and with him missing time due to a nagging injury, the learning curve is just that much more steep. Man – it makes me angry that they weren’t able to get Bryant Johnson. Still don’t understand the downside of giving him a one year deal like he wanted. Not to say I would take back the Hardy pick, but giving Hardy at least a year, while upgrading the receving corp this year with a vet would have been ideal.
2. I have a good feeling about Schouman at TE. I think he’s going to be a factor in the receiving game this year. Trent loves his TEs and I think Schouman will be the beneficiary of this.
3. The Peters thing didn’t bother me at first, because I just beleived that he would pop in whenever and pick up with the chemestry he built with Dock last season. I was unaware though that Turk changed most of the line calls. I thought I read a while back that the run calls and assignments would stay the same. Any idea if this is true? If so, at the very least, Peters shouldn’t miss a beat in the run game when he eventually returns.
4. From your observations, do you think Reed is a lock to start opposite of Lee at the beginning of the season?
5. To me, Chris Ellis has ‘bust’ written all over him. I wasn’t impressed with the pick back in April and so far he’s done nothing to convince me otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, he hasn’t even played a down in the NFL yet…but it’s just a gut feeling. The entire season has to play out still, but I may find myself on the DE bandwagon next offseason with K and sireric.
6. Not to open a can of worms, but how did JP look? (as I mentioned in another thread, Trent has a history of getting injured 4 out of the 5 last seasons). No one likes to think about it, but if he goes down for any amount of time, it’s the JP Losman show.
John I.
The entire season has to play out still, but I may find myself on the DE bandwagon next offseason with K and sireric.
Oh you know there’s plenty of room available. All are welcome to join and see the light.
I think Ellis will be solid in a situational role. Can he truly be any worse than Denney/Kelsay at getting after the QB?
You brought up Panda and you know what, I agree. I was against the 1 year deal before, but the way things seem to be playing out, it would have been a good move for this year, while still potentially being a good move for the future allowing Hardy to slowly progress if needed. Right now, we are really depending on him to produce at some point this year. I do think he will, though right away is questionable. He is a very hard worker and if he can stay healthy and get reps, he should be fine by at worst, midseason. I still think he’ll contribute right away in the redzone, but I’d be more comfortable with Panda on the outside as a starter than Reed for the majority of the year if Hardy isn’t ready. I also think McKelvin is going to really struggle initially. He’s still behind Reggie Corner in the nickel role, which is pretty concerning to me, regarding his learning curve….
I too think Schouman can help us. Not sure if he’ll ever be anything more than a possession TE, but that’s ok. Jason Witten does just fine as that type of player. I really think Schouman will have an opportunity to catch 30-40 passes this year, as Trent proved his love for the tight end last year. Sorry for the inappropriate double entendre.
~K
Answers/Opinions
For Berg and JR111--a couple of thoughts. I have thought about the Peters situation a good deal and wondered what I would do. In the long run-I think the Bills are best served by doing what they are doing, which is indicating an open door to redoing his contract as long as Peters upholds his end of the contractual agreement-to show up to work. I think this is fair, and is hardly an onus on the player. Let’s face it-the player has absolutely no leverage in this case, and despite this, the Bills WILL talk to him and ultimately will redo the contract. I think the Bills (under this regime) have an excellent track record of identifying “their guys” and taking care of them. Make no mistake Peters is one of “their guys” but he cannot hold a gun to management’s head. For OBD to “cave” now would open the door to a LOT more agita down the road from other players. Short term—is this killing all of us and the team/staff? Yup. But I cannot think of a better solution.
To JR111—-Yes, I think Reed is a lock to start opposite Lee good health assumed. I do not think Roscoe can play outside at all, and as you all have noted, Hardy is going to have to break in gradually.
Although I did not see Hardy at all while at camp, I like him and more importantly so does the staff. I think like 90% of all rookie WRs his impact will be gradual—but I think he is going to be a real player for a long time.
That said-I was a big proponent of signing Panda-because I thought it would have given them a lot more flexibility in the Draft. I understand the one-year contract implications, but I would have liked to have seen that one happen.
I thought JP looked OK. He seemed a lot less vocal and animated than the past years (or maybe this was just my imagination)—but threw fine and was generally on-target.
It is WAY too early to call anybody remotely a “bust” I think. How bout giving them the benfit of at least one exhibition game???
Geronimo
You forgot to address my question on Peter/Parker my friend..
Again, why do you get the “sense” that this is Peters’ doing, and not Parkers?
Sorry Krytime
It is my impression that OBD regards the agent as a tough but fair broker and that he is not dictating to Peters. That is all.
Geronimo
How many
of you would have called Eric Moulds a “bust” his first two years with the Bills? Give Ellis a chance for crying out loud.
I hate to have to say it, but the Bills will need to address DE next offseason. It’s got to be the grayest part of the team (agewise), aside from Ellis.
Get the Bills back to the big game!
Panda
If obtaining Panda would have meant not retaining Jason Peters, Lee Evans, or Angelo Crowell due to financial limitations, I wouldn’t do it.
Josh Reed in the starting lineup…again? Ugh. Just what SuperFan82 wanted to hear.
Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.
DE, DE, DE
that position is such a must. it is critical for this defense to be top 7. Without a rotational situation of DE’s that can consisently get to the QB the defense will be lacking playmaking abilitiy.
The offense worries me so much. This Jason Peters thing is starting to drive me nuts. I need some info. I need someone to tell me it is going to be ok
MARVelous
it's OK
NOT!!!!!!!!!! I honestly wished I could, REALLY!!! BUT, I don’t have any faith in Peters showing up any time soon NOW!!! He’s proven that he’ll sit out, and who knows if we’ll see #71 in the 2008 season or not. For the teams sake, he certainly better. Our ‘O’ WAS beginning to look pretty good (on paper), but w/ the lack of 71’s presence, I fail to see how any good that came from the 07 season OL chemistry wise, will be even revelant in 08 w/o Mr Peters in there. This may be our 2008 season RIGHT HERE! All we hear is playoff bound in 08. Well, if there’s no Jason Peters on our starting roster @ LT – SOON, all those shout outs for 2008 playoffs will fall on deaf ears for sure!
Get to camp already Jason!!!
Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 17
Yes.....it's about Jason Peters
First off, I appreciate all your work in giving us this information. It’s GREAT!!!!!!
Peters….OBD has said he is not answering any of their calls. Is he talking to his teammates? It seems like he would want to stay in touch with these guys and to keep up to date at least thru them.
My worry is memories on the way mike williams handled himself. After a while he wouldn’t even talk to his teammates. That is when his fantom injuries appeared and all of a sudden we find out he really has lost motivation and love for the game. Basically, this set o-line development back years.
Do you know anything about this idea? Is OBD nervous this may be more than a $$$$ problem and possibly a psychiological type problem?

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