Somebody finally says it

by Kurupt on Aug 4, 2008 9:56 PM EDT

by it I mean:

The Buffalo Bills have some choices when it comes to resolving the holdout of Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters. They can continue to send him text messages, maybe try to track him down on MySpace, or they can get on a plane, have themselves a face-to-face meeting and figure out what it’s going to take to get one of their most influential players back in uniform.

LINK

I've really been thinking about this the past few days. It sure appears Peters has no intentions of showing up anytime soon, nor does it seem like he cares to speak with the FO at this point. Well, someone needs to bite the bullet, swallow some pride and make a move. I agree that it probably needs to be some rather high ranking official in the FO.

I know many of you will say screw Peters, we have to move on without him, let him sit and accrue fines, etc, and that may be all fine and dandy. However, he is probably one of the two or three most important players on this team, maybe the most important, and you can bet your derriere that we won't be winning many games without him. I don't care how it looks, the FO really needs to consider going TO Peters to figure something out.

Now if Russ Brandon flies out to E. Tumbleweed, Ark or wherever Jason Peters is from, and the big guy grabs a snorkel and hides in his water bed refusing to speak at that point, then we've got an absolute crisis on our hands.

Some more good points brought up:

As much as this is about money it’s also about respect. Your best offensive lineman ought to be paid accordingly.

This is true. Nobody should argue otherwise. Don't give me the 'he hasn't proven it long enough crappola". Derrick Dockery proved to be a solid G, but a $49M Guard? No way. Langston Walker had proven to be an underwhelming, overrated player in Oakland, he still got paid handsomely. Peters deserves the $$$, so it's time someone gets proactive here.

Yes, he was a project, a raw talent in need of refinement. But the notion that he’s indebted to the Bills for mining his potential is pure folly. If the Bills are so adept at developing offensive linemen then how come their front five abounds with free agents? Can we give Peters some credit for what he’s become?

Exactly. The Bills didn't make Peters, he made himself. The Bills were there to give him an opportunity and help him in his progress, but the bottom line is, Peters worked his tail off to get where he is.

The longer this drags on, the harder it will be for our O to be successful early in the year. That could set us back the entire year and that's the last thing this franchise needs. We need to pay our stars, continue improving and work to get to that next level. I don't think we can do that without Peters. He may be acting selfish, childish, stupid, etc..but we still need him. The best way to get him here is going after and trying to get something done even if it's on his terms. Sometimes you have to cave in a little to get where you want/need to be. This is one of those situations.....

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peters

I’ve changed my position slightly, but he needs to come to camp to get a new deal. He signed the deal, old agent or new. Originally, I figured Brandon/whoever should assure him he would be first in line for a renegotiation at the end of this year. He has three years left, he is being ridiculous.

People are overreacting and basically doing exactly what an agent and player that hold out want; stir up a frenzy to the point where an organization will pay anything to get the player into camp.

If I was Brandon, which I am not, I would tell his agent to meet me in East BumbleF, Arkansas, and I would fly down to make sure Peters was sane/healthy/alive/not on a bender. If he was, I would tell him and his agent that I would begin a renegotiation immediately if he came to camp (with the intention of getting a deal done as a top 3 tackle or pretty much whateaver it takes). If he refused, I would go back to Buffalo, hold a press conference, and tell the truth (that I went and saw him, told him he had 3 years left, that the org would renegotiate if he came to camp, etc.)

If he accepts and shows at camp, it satisfies all objectives: 1. get him into camp; 2. make him happy and paid what he deserved; 3. get the line together as quickly as possible; and 4. maintain the general guideline that holding out will not get you a new deal.

If he doesn’t accept, public sentiment would probably shift as the organization attempted everything to get him into camp with a good faith effort. People would be bitter, but at that point, it would be on Peters. The Bills signed him to a deal that ensured lifelong security when he had yet to prove himself as a Pro Bowler. If he blew out a knee, his signing bonus and paid salaries would have given him an ample nest egg. There is a risk/reward balance when you sign a deal, and getting angry at the Bills for trying to maintain some sanity in this situation is ridiculous.

by jmorris0823 on Aug 5, 2008 1:26 AM EDT 0 recs

Good Comments

I think the Bills have probably already made several private reaches to Peters. Now they have to do it publicly in the manner described above. They have a right/responsibility to find out where Peters head and body is at before giving hime the cash. I know the Bills are worried about precedent setting and they should be. On the other hand, every coach/GM will admit that they don’t treat every player equally. Peters is your most critical player. His teammates will respect good faith reaches. I also think the teammates are watching the Lee Evans situation. I thought it would have been meaningful to get Lee taken care of first and quickly. It’s not happened yet. If Lee gets hurt before the contract, it will reinforce to the others that the Peters way is the right way.

by MrFurious1 on Aug 5, 2008 8:44 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree, sign Evans first

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree with you

Evans needs to be signed first. Get it out of the way, so they can concentrate on ending this stalemate with Peters (one way or another).

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Aug 5, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

agreed

Peters is so unique. At this point in time he is the only player I consider absolutely vital to the Bills success this year. He affects the entire line, which obviously directly affects both the passing and run games.

As for respect (that somebody else mentioned), if he doesn’t feel respected when the head of the organization comes down and sits in his living room and tells him how important he is to the team and basically guarantees a new deal if he shows up to camp, then let him sit.

In comparison to Evans, Peters’ true value is apparent (top OT salary level is pretty consistent as is his performance). He would be much easier to sign to an agreeable, fair market value deal. Evans’ agent is most likely demanding much more than Berrian received, and considering Lee’s inconsistency, I wouldn’t pay that. The worst (and best) possible situation for the Bills would be that he has a huge year. At that point, you just place the franchise tag on him and work out a long-term deal. If he has another mediocre year (blame the QB/other receivers/Lee/whoever), you can let him go with confidence if he is unwilling to sign a mutually agreeable deal.

by jmorris0823 on Aug 5, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

This could very well be a respect thing. Peters may not only feel that he deserves more money, but he wants the F.O. to come to him and tell him that personally.

I’m with you all the way on this one to K.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 5, 2008 8:39 AM EDT 0 recs

So the Bills get no credit?

The Bills didn’t make Peters, he made himself

Really? The Bills took an undrafted TE, the coaches (not Peters) recognized he was not going to be a good TE, but had the physical tools to be a RT. They teach him the position and he excels to the point of becoming a ProBowl RT. I am not saying Peters has not done his part, but without the Bills, Peters would most likely not even be in football. I say that is worth some loyalty and respect.

Yes, he was a project, a raw talent in need of refinement. But the notion that he’s indebted to the Bills for mining his potential is pure folly. If the Bills are so adept at developing offensive linemen then how come their front five abounds with free agents? Can we give Peters some credit for what he’s become?

I admit I am not real familiar with this Dr. Z, but he seems to me like just another guy with an opinion. Does he really expect the Bills fill out there line from converted TEs? Doesn’t he realize the mess TD left the line in? Even if the Bills wanted to “grow” the line, who wants to wait that long? What is wrong with bringing in FAs? IDIOT!!!!

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 9:28 AM EDT 0 recs

It’s not that the Bills didn’t help Peters along, but don’t think that some other club wouldn’t have given him a chance. To say that Peters wouldn’t be in football right now if not for the Bills is highly inaccurate.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 5, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Peters was undrafted, right?

How am I being highly inaccurate? Were there other teams interested in Peters? Apparently not very many were willing to take a chance, because nobody drafted him. Tell me how many undrafted TEs, get picked up by a team who transitions them to RT, because I really don’t know? My guess is less than 1 a year.

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up 0 recs

If the draft was 8 or 9 rounds long somebody would have drafted Peters.

Tell me how many undrafted TEs, get picked up by a team who transitions them to RT

How many TEs come out of college weighing 300 pounds? Because the answer to that question is going to be pretty similiar to the answer to your question.

by kaisertown on Aug 5, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up 0 recs

If my grandmother had balls, she would be my grandfather!

My point was that it is more likely Peters would not have been picked up by another team who would have saw the potential, had the need, and patience to develop it. Pick any other 300 lbs undrafted TE you want. Now, how much money are you willing to put on a team picking him up and making him into a starting tackle period, let alone a Probowl LT?

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/41242.html

Here is a scouting report from 2004 on Jason Peters that predicted him to be 4th round draft pick. The guy declared after his junior season and it was shocking that he went undrafted. He was probably the first player that 9 or 10 teams called after the draft ended.

Here is Scott Wright from NFL Draft Countdown and his final 2004 mock:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/archive/2004/mock.html

He had Peters getting drafted in the third round, 94th overall. Instead of Peters thanking the Bills for a chance, we should be thanking him that he picked Buffalo.

Pick any other 300 lbs undrafted TE you want

That is my whole point. A 300 pound TE (Peters actually weighed over 330) only comes around every 4 or 5 years. EVERY team is going to convert him to an offensive line spot if he fails at TE. A lot of teams wouldn’t have even tried him at TE, but rather converted him immediately to tackle.

Here is an article from USA today done before the 2004 draft about Peters moving to OT depending on which team picked him:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2004draft/2004-04-19-tight-end_x.htm

Looking back at the situation, the Bills were foolish to leave at him at TE as long as they did.

by kaisertown on Aug 5, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good stuff,

but hype is hype. What was written about Mike Williams by these same people? The FACT is that no team drafted Peters even though

Others might experiment because tackles are at a premium, with just two expected first-rounders and a weak crop overall. Although most teams have told Peters they project him as a tight end,

Maybe Peters is the Tom Brady equivalent at LT. I have said he deserves more money, but I cannot blame the Bills for not being held hostage by a player who has shown NO faith in the team that did sign him. IF he had so many choices, then why did he choose the Bills. Why? Was it because we had such a great O-line? No. Was it because we are perennial SuperBowl contenders? No??? So why?

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Because

He saw a good chance to start on a team that had gone 6-10 the previous year…regardless of what position that team played him at, TE, OL, or even DL.

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Aug 5, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good of a reason as any

why not go to a team where he could learn from and beat out the best?

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Kaisertown, you made my point better then I could have.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Aug 5, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Bills get credit

but I’ve seen so many instances where Peters “owes it to the FO and coaching staff” for making him what he is. They certainly helped him along the way, but many people seem to doubt what Peters has done himself in getting to this point in his career. It’s almost as if the Bills are the ONLY reason Peters is any good. I don’t agree with that.

by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up 0 recs

I look at it this way

For better or worse, your parents had a huge impact on making you who you are today. If the Bills can be credited with ruining JP, then they can be credited with making Peters.

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

wow, I totally disagree.

The Bills had a good find in Peters, they didn’t build him out of nothing.

without the Bills, Peters would most likely not even be in football

Somebody would have signed Peters after the draft, he was a legit prospect who was considered a late round draft pick. They didn’t grab him out of nowhere. If the Bills cut ties with him after his first couple seasons, I think he would’ve gotten a chance somewhere else. He size/athleticism combo is truly special and if the Bills had ever let him go, then he would be a pro bowl tackle with a different team.

Obviously Doc Z doesn’t expect the Bills to start 5 converted TEs. I think his point is valid. If the Bills coaches are so good at teaching and developing offensive lineman, then why does Duke Preston suck so much? Did they teach Peters how to play like a pro bowler, but ignore Ben Sobieski, Aaron Merz, Terrance Pennington, Dylan McFarland and Justin Geisinger? Mike Williams had all the talent in the world, but the Bills coaches couldn’t get him to play at the level of a startable tackle.

by kaisertown on Aug 5, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

As I said before,

Peters deserves credit, but so do the Bills. Now you want to blame the Bills for Mike Williams being a bust? Then why didn’t another team turn him into a startable tackle?

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

that is my whole point. I’m not blaming the Bills for Mike Williams’ failure. you can’t reward the team when things go right and blame the player when things go wrong.

Any and every other team would have turned Peters into roughly what he is today.

by kaisertown on Aug 5, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Then why did the Falcons trade Farve?

I know he is a QB, but I can’t think off the top of my head of a O-lineman equivalent. Every team does not get the most out of their players. The Bills may not have been the only team capable of of doing so with Peters, but it is no lock that another team would have had the same result.

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Peters' agent

If memory serves, Peters’ agent represents Steven Jackson (Rams) who is also holding out. According to PFT there hasn’t been any contact between the agent and the Rams since July 25th. What’s the guy been doing for the past 10 days? Unless the front office is keeping things extremely close to the vest he hasn’t been working on getting Peters a new deal…

by Ron From NM on Aug 5, 2008 11:25 AM EDT 0 recs

He's probably taking a nice long vacation

in anticipation of the money he stands to make from the new deals for both of his holdout clients.

Get the Bills back to the big game!

by Blitz on Aug 5, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Peters Skills Would've Made It Hard for Any Team Not to Find A Position

... He was absolutely dominant on special teams as a wedge buster and punt rusher. Who could forget his blocked punt. I have no doubt he could also play defensive tackle. I know coaches in this league like to overcomplicate the things, but I’m confident he’d have stuck with whoever got him. It’s all irrelevent. He’s out and it’s up to the Bills to walk the tight rope to get him in happy. He’s not going to sit out the season. I could count on my thumbs the number of guys who’ve done that.

by MrFurious1 on Aug 5, 2008 1:12 PM EDT 0 recs

favre

I realize it is not your main point, but Favre had issues in Atlanta and early in his career with the Packers. He was drinking heavily in Atlanta, to the point he was constantly falling asleep in meetings and had almost zero work ethic/ability to read defenses. As this has been heavily chronicled, I don’t blame the Falcons for trading him or for his lack of production during his time there. They traded him for a high pick after having a first-hand view of his immaturity at that time, not bad considering they basically got what they paid for him a year earlier.

by jmorris0823 on Aug 5, 2008 2:12 PM EDT 0 recs

Farve was traded by Atlanta in February 1992

and started for the Packers on September, 7 months later. The Falcons were not able to reach Farve. I am not saying it was their fault, but to make the point that all teams don’t get the same results with a player.

by Joe P. on Aug 5, 2008 2:37 PM EDT 0 recs

I agree with Joe

I can’t believe all of a sudden people want to talk about Peters when he was drafted like he was some clear cut talent that would have stuck somewhere. If the Bills didn’t give him a shot his odds of being a starter or even a player in this league diminish exponentially. Opportunities just don’t abound in this league even for talented players with potential. The Bills gave him one when nobody else thought he was worth drafting so I highly doubt there was much to like there. I mean hell guys, most players drafted in the 7th round don’t make it. Stop hugging tight to Peters because you’re all afraid he won’t show up. The Bills are right here. Show up and we negotiate. Its that simple. I’m all for paying him a huge contract but he has to come to camp.

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Aug 5, 2008 3:44 PM EDT 0 recs

meant to say year he was drafted not when he was drafted

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Aug 5, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

or again, rather the year of his draft (Arg! you all know what i mean, the year of his draft but he wasnt drafted yeesh)

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Aug 5, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

But how do you know this?

What if the Bills were the only team willing to allow him to try and play TE at the NFL level, so that’s why he signed here originally? Maybe once he saw that he couldn’t do anything at that position and asked to try a new position?

How do any of us know how Peters ascent to the Pro Bowl went?

by Kurupt on Aug 5, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

but thats the point

I think you’ve made my point here

“How do any of us know how Peters ascent to the Pro Bowl went?”

Thats precisely the problem Peters ascent to a Pro Bowl player is totally unknown. Randy Moss was a sure fire hit, Guys like Trent Edwards were considered enough of a prospect to warrant a third rounder. These were proven guys or at least guys with potential like Reggie Corner. Jason Peters was obviously considered a low enough prospect to be passed up by every team. What this tells us is that after 7 rounds of selection not a single team considered Peters good enough to risk him going to another team.

I think under the circumstances, going to his first and only pro bowl, coming off an injury at the end of last year (I know its a hernia but its still an injury) and his humble beginnings I think he is being quite arrogant to not show up before negotiating. I don’t think the Bills are asking him for much. Show up and we talk and you get paid. Simple.

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Aug 5, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

but I do agree with you on one thing

K, I think you are completely write that the Bills should at least go visit him face to face. I was unaware the extent of communication was text messaging. If thats the case then that is irresponsible management. Call or visit to talk with the guy and let him know you want him at camp

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Aug 5, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up 0 recs