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Bills place LB Crowell on IR

The Buffalo Bills have announced that they have placed linebacker Angelo Crowell on Injured Reserve. The move ends the season club's leading tackler from the 2007 season. Keith Ellison is expected to assume Crowell's starting strong side linebacker position; look for the Bills to make a move for a linebacker on the active roster, as the team currently only has five.

Ineresting tidbit:

"Crowell’s decision to have surgery this close the start of the season likely did not sit well with the Bills coaching staff, and their decision to put him on injured reserve, in what is a contract year for the linebacker, likely does not sit well with him.

Crowell will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the 2008 season, but he’ll be unable to have an effect on his market value with his play on the field this season."

I wonder what this means for Crowell's future with the team... Think there'll be some bad blood?

Editor's Comments, by Brian Galliford: Props to BuffCrunch for breaking the news here. 17 players on IR in 2007, and before a single game is played, we're already at 2 in 2008. This one is fishy though... like, Jason Peters fishy.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that Crowell's brief appearance in the pre-season win over Indy was his final appearance in a Bills uniform. We've been hearing since before the end of the 2007 season that the Bills, while they like Crowell, aren't so enamored with him that they'll break the bank for him. Now the bridges between Crowell and the Bills organization may be ablaze. I don't think it was likely he was a Bill after '09 before this incident; I think he's a goner for sure now.

If I'm Buffalo - and clearly I'm not, because they're simply plugging and chugging with Keith Ellison - I'm sliding Kawika Mitchell over to strong side and starting John DiGiorgio (Buffalo's second-leading tackler in '07) on the weak side. Alas, that won't happen for now; Ellison starts on the strong side, Mitchell stays on the weak side, and we pray to the NFL gods that Ellison learns how to play well.

When did it become such a headache to be a Bills fan? So much promise has turned into so much distraction, and we haven't even taken the field yet... I'm disgusted. Something has to go right at some point.

Poll
What, in your opinion, is the best way to replace Crowell?
Start Ellison, draft LB #1 in '09
54 votes
Start DiGiorgio, draft LB #1 in '09
168 votes
Explore the trade market ASAP
88 votes
Play more nickel defense
10 votes
Other (please identify/explain)
8 votes

328 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

2 recs  |  Comment 133 comments |

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it means

they didn’t want to resign him regardless. In fact, Crowell will probably file a grievance and try to get an injury settlement for his release, assuming the injury is what it’s reported as.

It’s just a spiteful, stupid move by the team to put him on IR if it’s true that it would have only taken him 2-4 weeks to recover. If they were trying to send a message to him for having the surgery now, then fine him or suspend, don’t hurt the whole D by taking him out for the season. Just idiotic if that’s the case….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 6:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

is*

http://bills.sportsbloggingnetwork.com/

by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think....

the Bills are getting irritated with player shinanigans. The way Chris Brown reported the story, he made it sound as if the Bills didn’t know he had the surgery until it was over. It just isn’t a good thing when the HEAD COACH is SURPRISED that one of his players decides to get surgery. It’s not a team move by Crowell, and placing him on IR is a team move by the team itself. It’s not a good thing from a fan perspective, but if I was coaching a team on any level I wouldn’t want that type of selfishness on my roster. Why do you think Peters has not been ushered back in here by the front office? This coaching staff just doesn’t care which players show up as long as the players that show up are team/character guys.

We also have to remember that the front office and coaching staff know the situation a bit more intimately than we do.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Sep 4, 2008 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is very very true............

and a darn good point…..kudos

http://bills.sportsbloggingnetwork.com/

by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My exact sentiments Kurupt

ForeignArrow, I understand where you are coming from as well, but, you have to look at it like this. There is no way that the team doesn’t have any contact with it’s players. That in my opinion is pretty much a lie. Teams know what is going on with their players. Whether it be directly from the player or the agent, that doesnt mean they cant find out from a person “close” to the player. Everyone spills the beans on pro players.
Secondly – I very much agree with Kurupts comments. This is just ludicrous to put someone on IR that will only be out 2-4 weeks. There is no way the team didn’t know either. This type of thing has to be cleared through the team doctors for insurance purposes as well. They knew what was going on. This just makes me think that the front office no longer has any idea of what they are doing. Where is Marvelous Marv when you need him?

by Hambone on Sep 4, 2008 6:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it me

or (with what has happened with Peters and now Crowell) are the Bills intentionally trying to run a very promising season into the ground?

by NJBillsfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hope not

but it seems that way with a quick glance….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LB

Hopefully there is someone on the Free Ageny List that we can pick up to replace him. I’ve said this all of last season and I’ll say it again now that issue has risen…ELLISON AND DIGIORGIO ARE WORTHLESS WHEN IT COMES TO THE STARTING LINE UP!!! They are the exact type of line backers that this coaching staff has moved away from to try and bolster our defense…small and speedy! They’re ok in open space but get eaten up by blockers. If Ellison replaces Crowell for the entire season our defense is at a LARGE disadvantage. Get your draft boards ready folks because if Crowell is gone at the end of this year hopefully we can replace him with James Laurinaitis! I know that is way too far in advance to look but we need a beast to replace a beast and he’s #1 in my book of this years draft class. I don’t like to bash players on my favorite team but Ellison and DiGiorgio deserve it because they’re terrible!

by Teaters33 on Sep 4, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Forced into a corner

Crowell put the Bills in a horrible position. If he really didn’t tell the team he was going to have surgery and then didn’t tell them he was having it until it was over then he had to expect the organization to respond in an uncharitable manner. He, and we, can’t expect the team to simply let him piss in their collective face. I’m not sure I see the logic of fining him (as was suggested) or even the legality of it. His doctor obviously thought he needed the surgery so that’s not the issue. His handling of the surgery is the issue. The knee has been bugging him for a while so he could have had the surgery and been back in time for the season opener.

Crowell knew the team was counting on him to be a starter. The team kept 6 LBs on the roster and it is now down to 5. The team really can’t afford to go with just 5 LBs (3 starters—1 of whom plays special teams, and 2 back ups who both play special teams) so the Bills have to add another LB. The only other option is to cut another position and add a LB until Crowell gets back. The team didn’t like door #2, which would have cost them one of the developmental players (like Bell) they are hoping to turn into future starters. Instead, they chose to drop Crowell onto the IR list and add a 6th LB ASAP. Crowell can whine but he can’t seriously think he’d win a grievance. Jauron can simply point to the numbers and say that the spot was needed for a LB who could contribute before October. He can point back to last season when the team put Poz on IR, even though he could have been back around week 11 or so.

This leaves a bad taste but I see it as being largely Crowell’s fault if what is being reported is accurate. We may find out new and relevant facts that change that impression. For example, perhaps Crowell and/or his doctor talked to Buffalo’s doctors weeks ago and were rebuffed.

In any case, Crowell is done as a Bill. From what many have written about him, I’m a little surprised to see the reaction here. (I suspect it’s mainly due to Ellison getting playing time.) The team wasn’t gung-ho about getting him re-signed so that may have been an indication that they were going to let him go anyway. It also means there’s one less vet for the Bills to re-sign. Now perhaps Evans’ deal can finally be done. Maybe, just maybe, Peters will see the millions Evans is awash in and finally shuffle off to Buffalo.

by Ron From NM on Sep 4, 2008 7:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And I was called a conspiracy theorist for stating the exact same thing Ron

And here we go, you said exactly what I have been thinking. If Crowell did this to try and prove to the Bills he should be paid like a star then it just back fired horribly. I think the market for him won’t be as hot as some people think. Yes he is a good tackler, but he is very poor in coverage and does struggle to diagnose play action quite often.

Hes done, and we now MUST move on, and find out who can step up and be a starter for the next 16 weeks.

Fear the mighty helmet wearing gopher, he is coming for your soul....

by WABillsfan on Sep 4, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but it still makes no sense

Why PRACTICE yesterday if you were planning on having knee surgery? Why have surgery now and take games off of your season instead of having it done earlier and playing at full strength for the entire year? It’s not like he’s only auditioning for the Bills here.

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

duh

why do you think the bills were pissed off enough to put him on IR, because it doesnt make sense.

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Sep 4, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where did Ron say anything about Crowell angling for a new contract?

If Crowell did this to try and prove to the Bills he should be paid like a star then it just back fired horribly

In what scenario does Crowell having knee surgery during the season make him more money?

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To show the Bills that he is a better option than DiGi/Ellison/Corto for this defense.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still doesn't make sense

What if Ellison or DiGi proved just as capable as Crowell ever was? That’d be a dumb move on his part. By sitting out games, he could lose his starting job completely. Then where does he make money?

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kurupt, read the posts. The majority of the posters on here thinks that Crowell is a major upgrade to the others and if the Bills thought that they were as capable as Crowell he wouldn’t have been in the starting lineup. They could have then traded/cut him to save some money.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crowell has started 41 games for the Buffalo Bills. Ellison has started 16 games. The coaches have watched these guys in practice and have gone through film sessions with them for a couple of years now. If they don’t already know the difference between the two guys than they never will. Again, what would the benefit be to Crowell other than telling the organization something they already know?

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another analogy

The same idiotic reason Jason Peters is not here. Peters think the Bills will come calling banking on the fact that the other linemen aren’t as good as him. Kaisertown, if you were going on a date with a hot woman would you take her to Sizzler or Ruth Chris?

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peters is different. So different that I don’t see what we can learn by comparing their situations.

Peters is holding out. His leverage is that he won’t play until he gets a new contract.

Crowell is having surgery. He doesn’t have leverage because the Bills would have just put him right back into the starting lineup when he was healed up. Which would leave Crowell exactly where he is now.

if you were going on a date with a hot woman would you take her to Sizzler or Ruth Chris?

Seriously, it would depend on the woman. And I’m starting to feel stupid because i still don’t get your point. What is the Spears/sizzler analogy all about?

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

we all think he’s better than Ellison, but apparently the staff isn’t that high on him. What if Ellison or DiGi were playing well enough when Crowell got healthy that it’d be hard to take them out of the lineup? It’s no guarantee that either hasn’t improved, so it’s no guarantee Crowell would get that starting spot back. I’m sure Bledsoe didn’t think he’d lose his job to Brady after signing the monster deal the year before….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Tony Romo.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a few things

First, as of Chris Brown’s last report, Crowell hadn’t even had the knee scoped yet, so he had just elected to have it done thus far. It’s not like he went out and had surgery. He decided to get it done and the team knows that it’s being done.

Also, according to this Fox Sports article, the team obviously knew about it:

The decision was made after Crowell consulted with team doctors Thursday, a day after he practiced with the team.

If true, not sure how that’s pissing in the team’s face.

So, to me, this sounds like something that Crowell didn’t want to continue having pain with after practice yesterday. Just because he elected to have the surgery now, doesn’t mean he didn’t consider it before. I’m guessing he was trying to give it a go as long as possible, but ended up not feeling close enough to 100% at this time.

Yeah, this is definitely unexpected after he practiced fully yesterday, but it really doesn’t sound like he went behind the team’s back and already had a procedure done. Maybe they suggested he have it done earlier, but he said no, so they are just ticked he waited so long. That makes sense and I could see them upset, but to simply throw him on IR if they indeed are upset doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

At this point, I’m finding it hard to entirely blame Crowell. It’s a 2-4 week recovery if it’s only a scope, and it sure sounds like he went through the team first. Why they wouldn’t just cut Bryan or put Murphy on IR if they needed another LB is beyond me. I think Crowell would have a great shot to win a grievance, and maybe rightfully so.

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

?????

can you technically put a guy on IR if he’s not injured? (if he hasn’t had the surgery then he’s not really injured… not with a season-ending injury).

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Sep 4, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i completely

agree with your assessment here and think that is exactly what happened. He said he could play through it and then today said nope I can’t. And the Bills consequenctly said “screw you”

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Sep 5, 2008 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I totally agree too.

I can’t see how the blame lies on Crowell more than the team. It would have been pretty easy to cut Bryan or IR Murphy instead. And teams only keep 5 LBs active on gamedays sometimes, so I don’t see how that is such a hindrance to the coaching staff. When we tried to guess which 8 guys would be inactive on Sunday, Corto was my last guess. who knows if he was even going to be active in the first place. And if the Bills sign someone who wasn’t in camp, it would take them 2-4 weeks to pick up the defense anyways. So what the Bills are saying is a full season from Spragan is more valuable than 12 weeks of Crowell? That is ridiculous.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m a fair guy. I blame Crowell and the Bills equally.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 5, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Britney Spears is a beautiful girl, but would you make her your wife?

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get it. What’s your point?

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, why did San Fran and the Eagles trade T.O.? They didn’t have a WR comparable. Maybe they feel like none of Crowell is better than some of him.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So your comparing Crowell to Two. That guys is a wack job. He has the emotional range of a 9 year old and his situation is nothing like Crowell.

Even if the Bills put Crowell on IR out of spite, that doesn’t mean that Crowell intentionally held off on the surgery with a date already planned out to “show” the Bills that they have to give him a new contract. It still makes no sense to me.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He acted the way he did because he was seeking a new contract. That is where I am coming from with the comparison. Unless you psychoanalyzed Crowell, he may be a wack job too.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here, Here

This, to me, seems so calculated on Crowell’s part. What better way to prove his worth and garner at least conversation for an extension. Sit out a couple of weeksand show the Bills how much of an upgrade he is to Ellison. I mean, he went through OTA’s and training camp and not once did we hear about his knee. You have to be Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles to not see this as staged or very gullible.

by the Skycap on Sep 4, 2008 7:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

but how many times do guys intentionally miss games and have surgery just to make themselves look better? Play and prove yourself. I can’t see a guy like Crowell do this after playing hurt all of last season. Maybe, but I find it hard to believe.

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are overlooking so many explanations that are far more likely. For example:

Crowell is tired of playing with consistent pain during practice. He is tired of having to ice the knee to avoid additional swelling and pain every time he goes home from practice. He is tired of having to show up early and meet with the team doctors before practice everyday. He wasn’t planning on having the surgery, but the pain and the extra annoyances of being injured finally caught up to him.

The team doctors told him the injury would improve with treatment and rest and he wouldn’t need the surgery, but they were wrong.

He did something during the wednesday practice to make the injury a little worse.

The injury has been gradually getting worse and the swelling and pain have gone up slowly over time to the point where surgery seemed like the smartest thing. He maybe thought that a healthy Angelo Crowell for 12+ games (including potential playoff games) would be a better thing for the team than an injured Angelo Crowell who plays with a little more pain every week and might eventually need surgery at a more important point of the season anyways.

What better way to prove his worth and garner at least conversation for an extension

By playing well.

Sit out a couple of weeks and show the Bills how much of an upgrade he is to Ellison

Both players started the entire year last season. The Bills and everybody else already know the gap in ability between the two.

I mean, he went through OTA’s and training camp and not once did we hear about his knee

That just isn’t true. Crowell has been sporadically missing practices dating back to OTAs. He barely played in the preseason (did he play at all?) and his knee has been a lingering concern on this site for over a month. Most of us (myself included) wrote it off as no big deal, but here is a quote from labill from August 15th:

Angelo Crowell
I ask this every week, but do we need to be worried about his injury? It seems that his injury has not "worsened", but it is troubling that he barely practices and plays, even though the problem seems not major and he has been in recovery mode for a long time.
You have to be Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles to not see this as staged or very gullible.

I am going to go in the opposite direction and say that you have to be Mel Gibson in the movie Conspiracy theory to see this as staged. May I ask how many copies of catcher in the rye do you own? and did I really just take an average movie from 1997 and go that far with a reference to it?

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? See Drew Rosenhaus!!

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy turns into man

This is where Keith Ellison has to elevate his game. Whitner, Edwards and gang are trying to bring a winning mentality back to OBD, just listen to their interviews. They will be counting on him to leave it on the field every game. If he can’t, give Roosevelt Colvin a call. He’s probably not the dominating pass rusher he once was, but he is better than Donnie Spragan and could probably be comparable to Crowell on this defense.

by the Skycap on Sep 4, 2008 8:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good job taking Ellis

As if I needed another reason to be pissed that the Bills passed on Dan Connor in the 3rd round!

by Wadhams on Sep 4, 2008 8:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Strangely, I’m more comfortable with Ellison than I would have been with Connor.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What’s your reasoning behind that? Connor was projected by some as a first rounder and is currently the leading tackler at Linebacker U.

by Harris on Sep 4, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

projected?

He was a 3rd rounder for a reason….Don’t know much about him, but if he was a first rounder, he would have been picked as such….

And we needed Ellis more than a LB who might be starting. It’s not like Crowell was on IR back in April

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you completely…. but I can pretty much guarantee that Connor is a better football player than Ellison. Nobody on this website should be comfortable with Ellison starting.

by Harris on Sep 5, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a pretty big guarantee for a guy who hasn't played a regular season NFL game.

Especially for a guy who is who is expected to be inactive Sunday. He’s third on the depth chart behind a guy with 41 career tackles in 3 years.

by twoeightnine on Sep 5, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Ellison is stronger in coverage than Crowell is. That’s where our linebackers have been weakest. I think Mitchell is better than Crowell. Compared with last year’s LB corps – effectively, Poz for DiGi and Mitchell for Crowell – I still think we’re better at the position.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please OBD, Please Pay Lee Evans before Sunday

If you are watching the Giants game and see what Plaxico Burress is doing, I beg the Bills to give Lee Evans the money. He is putting on a clinic in the first half. Besides, as I posted in a fanpost he is the classiest, most professional athlete I’ve come across in a long time and if it has the same effect on him as Plax it will be worth every cent.

by the Skycap on Sep 4, 2008 8:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well Brian

a lot of ills can be cured with a nice win Sunday…

I’m guessing we sign someone like Blake Costanzo, who will do nothing more than play on ST’s, unfortunately. We need to bring in someone capable of playing defensively.

I would play DiGi too. I’m so sick of watching Ellison play. We may see Julius Jones running wild on Sunday if he doesn’t play better. EEEEKKKK

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would disagree with this slightly. I think our concern needs to be special teams for the moment, because Ellison’s loss on special teams will be felt.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe, but I’d rather have someone who can play OVER Ellison on D. Putting DiGi in there also would help that…

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t forget that DiGiorgio’s ribs are currently beat up.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They’re playable, sure, but ribs aren’t magically 100% because he’s practicing. He’s got to be really sore.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno about you guys...

…but did anyone else think that something might have been up when Crowell was stripped of his captaincy? If a player still has his starting job, I would think it might be a little unusual to see it happen. We sort of expected JP to lose his since he lost the starting job but I think Crowell losing his while still securely having the starting job should have sent up some red flags.

"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England

by Calvert on Sep 4, 2008 8:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah… I think his loss of captaincy had more to do with Whitner.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he wasn’t stripped of it. The players voted on their captains….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rather have the kid from USC. He’s the real deal.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which one?

Cushing or Magula?

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Sep 4, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was referring to Rey Maualuga, but either one is good for me. Both have great size.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Cushing is much quicker

correct anyone? I like that although Maualuga is a monster, but seems a bit slower…

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maualuga

Boy I butchered the hell out of his name didn’t I?

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Sep 4, 2008 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laurinaitis, Maualuga and Cushing should all be first round guys and would be great picks. Cushing is the most likely as he plays on the outside and has the quicks to play in the Bills cover 2. Laurinaitis is the next most likely as he has better cover skills than Maualuga and is pretty much a perfect fit for MLB in a cover 2. Maualuga seems unlikely to me as he is kind of the classic 4-3 MLB and I think he and Poz standing next to each other wouldn’t work as well.

Watch out for Darry Beckwith, Marcus Freeman and Aaron Curry too. If Gerald McRath or Brandon Spikes declare early, they will be very interesting names as well. It should be a great draft for LBs.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Condensed Vent/Rant

First of all, thanks to everyone here for all that you do here. I haven’t been posting recently because I’m a pissed off Bills fan right now. My posts would just drag you all down. I still read the Rumblings here, though.

Why am I so pissed? In order: the quarterback, the left tackle, and now Crowell is just salt into the wound. In my opinion, when healthy, Crowell is/was the Bills’ best linebacker. He’s a young, ascending playmaker with no glaring weaknesses in his game. The biggest thing is I have a difficult time being interested in the Bills if I don’t believe in the quarterback. And right now I don’t. I can’t sleep at night. I hope I don’t need therapy. LOL!

Draft talk already? Now I’m a little more interested in posting. Prior to this Crowell mess, I wanted the Bills to resign Peters, Evans, AND Crowell (I don’t think that is too much to ask considering the Cowboys just resigned 53 Pro Bowlers this past offseason). That way, the Bills could focus their 2009 offseason (free agency and draft) on legitimately addressing their weaknesses such as DE and TE (and possibly QB, too).

I think not having Crowell, and thus having to address a need at LB, may very well comprimise how well the Bills can address other needs such as DE and TE. I don’t want some second or third-tier DE because we are forced to draft a LB so early.

Brandon Spikes…any relation to TKO?

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Sep 5, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a joke

I really wish our fans took the hard stance with this organization that Wilson’s lap dog front office takes with its players. Instead, we set records for season tickets for a team that hasn’t made the playoffs this decade. Oh well, I’m sure glad we’re saving money by drawing a line in the sand with these greedy players. Give me a break…And who gives a crap about the draft, 4 days before the season. I feel like we’re sheep as Bills fans and it makes me sick. I just got this news and I can’t wait to read Chris Brown’s spin. That should be rich (like Wilson).

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Sep 4, 2008 8:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not sure what this has to do with us or with Crowell, Nick. Nobody gives a crap about the draft right now. I give a crap about what Crowell’s loss means for the season.

This rant is lost on me.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

season tickets

I’m referring to the admirable, yet sad, fact that Buffalo has sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 57k season tickets this year and this is how our front office repays us- by conducting pissing matches with key veteran players like Crowell and Peters. That’s a joke….The draft rant was a separate thought based soley on having glanced up and seeing a discussion about college linebackers; I find that type of talk to be wildly depressing, but if that’s what you enjoy, go for it. I was merely thinking out loud about how little that matters.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Sep 4, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the “pissing match” is indeed a pissing match with Crowell, then yeah, I agree that the front office as as much as fault for this situation as Crowell is for postponing surgery until the last possible moment. I don’t agree about Peters at all, however – that situation is completely different. They’re right in what they’re doing with Peters; if what’s been said about Crowell is true, well, then, I have to agree with you that it was a bit immature of them.

I don’t think this is going to have as big an impact on our defense as many people believe. There will be impact, but I’ve never been too high on Crowell.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's better than Ellison or DiGiorgio (and probably Poz)

This front office is just far too content to play .500 ball and sell tickets to their loyal fans, but when can you expect when the GM was replaced by a marketing guru. Bizarre sitations like these are what create this culture of losing. I’ve seen this story before- it’s called the Cincinnati Bengals. The parallels are scary.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Sep 4, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

There would be no reason to show Crowell up like this if that’s the case. How about the front office worry about winning games? Crowell is better than Ellison and DiGi by far, so firing him for the season is dumb if it’s true he’d be healthy in 2-4 weeks.

And Brian, immature doesn’t even begin to describe what this front office would be if that turned out to be the case. This is a business where the end goal is to win, not a daycare where disciplining the littlest problems is done severely. You put the best players on the field, even if Crowell was dumb enough to wait until now for the surgery.

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get how you can snipe about the draft talk here, but generalize this Crowell thing into a “culture of losing”. We haven’t even taken the field yet in 2008, Nick. I’m on board with you after the ‘08 season if things don’t go well, but let’s not jump to conclusions. There’s still a season to play here.

Don’t forget, folks, that Ellison was a starter during the pre-season, when Buffalo’s first-team defense was pretty close to dominant. Again, to panic now would be foolish. Calm down and enjoy Sunday’s game.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cursed

I love the Bills more than anything other than my wife and kids(maybe more than my wife sometimes) but nobody lets me down like the Bills. I have been bouncing around the house just thrilled to watch them pummel the Hawks on Sunday and now this??? It is always something. And to top it all off I am out here in South Dakota surrounded by Vikings fans with nobody to pat me on the back and tell me it is going to be OK. I need a Bills win on Sunday like Jason Peters needs a kick in the ass! GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Craig.

by taskersd on Sep 4, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rather than dwelling on the disturbing events

that occurred at OBD today, I will post the following:

Quotes from past gridiron legends have added to football’s lore and should be passed on to today’s youth to increase their wisdom.

#1. ’Football is only a game. Spiritual things are eternal. Nevertheless, Beat Texas ’ Seen on a church sign in Arkansas prior to the 1969 game.

#2. ‘After you retire, there’s only one big event left… and I ain’t ready for that.’ Bobby Bowden / Florida State

#3. ‘The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it.’ Lou Holtz / Arkansas

#4. ‘When you win, nothing hurts.’ Joe Namath / Alabama

#5. ‘Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated.’ Lou Holtz / Arkansas

#6. ‘If you want to walk the heavenly streets of gold, you gotta know the password, ’Roll, tide, roll!’ Bear Bryant / Alabama

#7. ‘A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.’ Frank Leahy / Notre Dame

#8. ’There’s nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you.’ Woody Hayes / Ohio State

#9. ‘I don’t expect to win enough games to be put on NCAA probation. I just want to win enough to warrant an investigation.’ Bob Devaney / Nebraska

#10. ‘In Alabama , an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in Bear Bryant.’ Wally Butts / Georgia

#11. ‘You can learn more character on the two-yard line than anywhere else in life.’ Paul Dietzel / LSU

#12. ’It’s kind of hard to rally around a math class.’ Bear Bryant / Alabama

#13. When asked if Fayetteville was the end of the world. ‘No, but you can see it from here.’ Lou Holtz / Arkansas.

#14. ‘I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.’ Bear Bryant / Alabama

#15. ’There’s one sure way to stop us from scoring-give us the ball near the goal line.’ Matty Bell / SMU

#16. ‘Lads, you’re not to miss practice unless your parents died or you died.’ Frank Leahy / Notre Dame

#17. ‘I never graduated from Iowa , but I was only there for two terms – Truman’s and Eisenhower’s.’ Alex Karras / Iowa

#18. ‘My advice to defensive players: Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in a bad humor.’ Bowden Wyatt / Tennessee

#19. ‘I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.’ Duffy Daugherty / Michigan State

#20. ‘Always remember… Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.’ Shug Jordan / Auburn

#21. ‘They cut us up like boarding house pie. And that’s real small pieces.’ Darrell Royal / Texas

#22. ‘Show me a good and gracious loser, and I’ll show you a failure.’ Knute Rockne / Notre Dame

#23. ‘They whipped us like a tied up goat.’ Spike Dykes / Texas Tech

#24. ‘I asked Darrell Royal, the coach of the Texas Longhorns, why he didn’t recruit me and he said: ‘Well, Walt, we took a look at you and you weren’t any good.’ Walt Garrison / Oklahoma State

#25. ‘Son, you’ve got a good engine, but your hands aren’t on the steering wheel.’ Bobby Bowden / Florida State

#26. ‘Football is not a contact sport – it is a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport.’ Duffy Daugherty / Michigan State

#27. After USC lost 51-0 to Notre Dame, his postgame message to his team: ‘All those who need showers, take them.’ John McKay / USC

#28. ‘If lessons are learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education.’ Murray Warmath / Minnesota

#29. ‘The only qualifications for a lineman are to be big and dumb. To be a back, you only have to be dumb.’ Knute Rockne / Notre Dame

#30. ‘Oh, we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon.’ Spike Dykes / Texas Tech

#31. ‘It isn’t necessary to see a good tackle. You can hear it.’ Knute Rockne / Notre Dame

#32. ‘We live one day at a time and scratch where it itches.’ Darrell Royal / Texas

#33. ‘We didn’t tackle well today but we made up for it by not blocking.’ Wilson Matthews / Little Rock Central High School

#34. ’Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad. Darrell Royal / University of Texas

#35. ’I’ve found that prayers work best when you have big players.’ Knute Rockne / Notre Dame

#36. ‘Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.’ John Heisman’

by Joe P. on Sep 4, 2008 9:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

excellent joe, excellent

a triumphant return to be sure

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Sep 5, 2008 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This disturbs me more now than at any other point in time.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, Crowell on IR is already a punch in the face. We certainly don’t need the cat kicking us while we are down (or relentlessly punching us).

Then again he is one funny punching cat.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has impeccable form

tough to avoid that

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahahahahahahaha--oh Jesus

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Sep 4, 2008 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wtf...............

http://bills.sportsbloggingnetwork.com/

by norcaliangelsfan on Sep 4, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This should be placed on the Buffalo Rumblings home page.

Incredible power, quickness, reach, hand speed, and stamina.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Sep 5, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone is....

forgetting that Keith Ellison played really well as a rookie on the strong side. Strong side backers (when they read a run key) usually just go down-hill and take on blocks/fill a gap. Ellison struggled on the weak side because he couldn’t defeat blocks and was poor in pursuit and working through trash. I’m hoping when his role is simplified and reduced in the defense it will prevent teams from exploiting him.

I always liked Crowell, he was very productive for the Bills. But he does not really fit our defense… which is probably why he’s not being esteemed by the Bills. He’s not fast, poor in coverage, and now is injury-prone. Another reason he may have ended up on IR is because those same doctors who supposedly told him to get this surgery may have also told the Bills that there is little likelihood that arthroscopic knee surgery will fix the problem (it’s a simple procedure that has little efficacy sometimes). So, if that’s the case, why would the Bills waist a roster spot on him for the next few weeks if they think this is going to be a season-long nagging injury?

"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."

by ForeignArrow on Sep 4, 2008 10:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You thought Ellison played well as a rookie? Or that he surprised for a 6th round rook? Because, to me, he was pretty awful then, poor tackler, misreading runs, getting engulfed, etc. I’ve never seen anything I’ve liked out of Ellison. And he’s slow and undersized to boot.

I’d be much happier trying DiGi out there at OLB….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DiGiorgio is weak in coverage. That’s why Ellison gets the job for now.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah… delicious perspective. People forget that it was Ellison on the strong-side during four three solid pre-season games for our top defensive unit. Still plenty to be excited about.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Preseason

you’ve said it, I’ve said it, everyone has said it. Preseason, preseason, preseason.

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree, but to an extent. My point is, we don’t know how Ellison’s going to do in THIS defense, with THESE teammates. Let’s just wait and see.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 4, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is true

but if he’s the same old Ellison, then we need to replace him ASAP

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Troy Vincent

While Troy VIncent was near retirement, and there was a very capable rookie to step in, (therefore making, his and the Crowell situation very different, they are similar in one respect); That the Bills traded or released Vincent shortly after. I think, the Bills might trade off Crowell if they can, seeing as a team with needs at LB, or at least in need of an upgrade, would take a chance on Crowell for a 5th maybe.
However, like I said elsewhere, we could package the deal for something better, to fill another need. I don’t know, but we might just go with this as the team, hope Peters comes back (maybe also a ploy to show that the team is saving $ room for Peters at the end of the season without actually saying it) and see how we do.

I agree with Brian that no matter what, the LBs are still better.

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Sep 4, 2008 10:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can you trade someone on the IR???

And just because the LB’s look like they could be better than last year doesn’t mean they’re as good as they would have been a month from now with Crowell.

Still hoping that his injury was indeed worthy of the IR….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know

But I’d hate to just release him and have him play somewhere else, and I don’t see the reasoning in just letting him rot all year if he could be healthy in a month.

Therefore, if this is worthy of IR or not, I hope the Bills make the right decisions after the fact.

AND I am just saying that we are still better than last year at LB, although I am pissed to see Ellison anywhere on the field. Our LBs were nearly elite with the original three, or at least had the possibility to perform as such

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Sep 4, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty sure that you can’t trade someone who is on IR.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A true story

I know a little bit about what happened today at OBD regarding Crowell and hopefully will learn more tomorrow. I will share what I can then. I have been reading all of these posts this evening and thought I would share a true story with you. Take it for what it is worth.

It is the offseason. The weight-training program im Feb./March. Before OTAs and any kind of minicamp. Poz, Ellison and Kawika Mitchell have been lifting since 7:30AM. At 9:30AM, a certain SLB who was placed on IR today saunters into the weight room, goes over to the three of them and starts yucking it up. Kawika says (paraphrase here). “If you want to have a few laughs, that’s great—but do it at 7:30 before we start—not when we’re working.”

This happened. More tomorrow hopefully.

We will survive this. And better than you think. I am not happy—but this is not the end of the world.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Sep 4, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who cares?

Crowell’s better than Ellison and the “informed” Jauron obviously agreed as Crowell was placed at the top of the depth chart and was expected to start when Jauron woke up this morning. Now, a couple of days before the season starts, the team’s best option at SLB (as determined by the “informed” Dick Jauron), is out for the year with a 2-4 week injury. Buffalo made themselves a weaker team for 12 weeks or Jauron and his staff don’t know how to evaluate the players he coaches. Which is it? I’d like to trust Jauron on this one, so that means the front office is compromising the team to prove a point to a player who may or may not like to goof around a bit during voluntary weight training. For once, this organization needs recourse for their negligence- all fluffy insider stories not withstanding.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Sep 4, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your premise....

That Jauron and/or the front office are somehow attemting to “prove a point” to the detriment of the team is so misguided it really does not deserve a response. Puhleeeeze. Do you REALLY think that DJ/OBD are on some kind of power trip and are willing and or desirous of forfeiting wins for the purpose of fulfilling some egocentric need? Gimme a break.

My point in telling this story—is simply this (and there is a lot more to this that hopefully will be available to tell in the near future). The fans view of Crowell as a player is NOT shared in its entirety by OBD. Is he good enough to be the starter ahead of Ellison now? Yes. Are they worse off today than yesterday? Yes—but only marginally. They like Crowell’s toughness and field presence but to put it politely—his on-the field decison making leaves a lot to be desired. He is out of position frequently and there is no possible way they would have paid him to stay after the 2008 season.

This is a big chance for Ellison. Hopefuily he will step up. I just don’t think the delta between he and Crowell is so vast. I worry because in the words of Earl Weaver, “depth is a wonderful thing until you have to play it every day.” We are thin at LB and losing Ellison on special teams is a big hit.

But—your premise is total garbage.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Sep 4, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who shelves a starter for a 2 week injury?

I’m not arguing that Crowell is great and can’t be replaced I’m simply stating that Jauron and the coaching staff believes that he’s their best option since they expected him to start as late as yesterday morning. To throw your best option away away for 12-14 weeks and possibly the playoffs is absolutely nuts. Sure they can probably reach an injury settlement and recoup some cash, but in a season where the fans did their part and beyond in terms of tickets along with the Toronto cash influx, this type of mentality is the only “garbage” on display surrounding this situation. Give me a break.

Never forget 56-10. Revenge.

by SuperFan82 on Sep 5, 2008 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cash

I hope you don’t think that this had anything to do with cash. I know no more than I did last night, but in the cold pragmatic light of dawn let’s look at it a different. way. First—-they placed him on IR post-surgery. Do you think it is POSSIBLE that they got a different take on his recovery time than the publicly stated “typical” 2-4 weeks? Perhaps—although i have no idea. Second—let’s say it was gonna be just the 2-4 weeks. Here is the dilemma. For the entire preseason, going back to OTAs OBD and the staff have been preaching to the team how critical it is to get off to a fast start. They have been game-planning for Seattle and Jacksonville for a LONG time now. They make their final cuts last Saturday and assumed obviously that Crowell would be healthy and ready to go. The entire roster make-up is done with this and other assumptions (TE health, etc.) in mind. Now—three days before the opener, he tells them he is having surgery. OK—-not what we want, but we can’t tell him no, can we. We are pissed at him, but have to get ready to start the season. BIG problem now though. We only have 5 linebackers. It is clearly NOT possible to start the season with this lack of depth—even if Digi’s ribs weren’t bothering him. We HAVE to open up a roster spot in order to get another LB—either Buggs from the PS or somebody else. That means if Crowell is kept on the 53—somebody currently on the 53 HAS to be waived. Now last Saturday they were good enough to make the team—but on Thursday we have to dump them because Angelo may or may not be back after 4 weeks.
Honestly, I scoured the entire roster last night and the only guy I could make a case for getting rid of is Copeland Bryan. You do it and anwswer the same question. Stevie Johnson? Jenkins" One of the O-lineman where we are already short? Wendling? Not a starter but special teams ace? Couple this with the fact that the staff feels that Crowell is not THAT much better than Ellison to begin with, what are the alternatives.

Anyway—-I hopefully will learn more today, but Crowell placed them in a VERY tough spot—totally out of the blue and at the worst possible time. I do think that the entire notion that
the organization cares more about cash flow than winning is totally unfounded.

Geronimo

by Geronimo on Sep 5, 2008 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks G

I still find the whole situation fishy and a bit of a rash decision on the Bills part. Obviously they are ticked at him, but at the same time, are the other 52 guys on the roster that good that Crowell missing a few weeks is the guy that goes? Do we really need an OT with a torn rotator cuff taking up a roster spot? Or a 5th DE that will never be active? Plus, the team knew his knee was not 100%, it’s always possible that it would give out at any point.

Isn’t it also possible that Crowell felt a tweak during practice on Wednesday? Unless he’s a complete moron looking at a death wish, he didn’t plan to have surgery at this point all along. Is it the best time for the surgery? Not at all. But I find it hard to believe that he would wait until now, planning it that way. I really think it’s something he could no longer deal with as it had become.

To me, the Bills were just looking for a way to get Crowell out of here and avoid any possible conflict. I don’t buy it that the team needed space for a 6th LB. The team is having no problem keeping Derek Fine active, for likely a few more weeks, exposing the TE position to no depth whatsoever. I think a 3rd TE could come into play before a 6th LB. We’d have 2 other backup LB’s even with Crowell out a few weeks. The team has no problem keeping the 4 string OT with a torn rotator cuff active or on the roster after having never proven himself.

Unless the injury is indeed something more than a 2-4 week recovery, then this is just odd. If it’s 6-8 weeks or more, it makes a lot more sense, but as we currently understand it, I’m still a bit confused.

Sure, Crowell put them in a bad spot, but so did Matt Murphy, a guy who is borderline useless. He’s got a torn rotator cuff, albeit it’s not that bad, but it is something that will obviously effect him all year and be one tweak away from getting worse. He’ll miss a few weeks at least, but the Bills had no problem with that. He elected to not have surgery. So why is he still around clogging up a roster spot?

I kind of hope there’s more to the story, and you are able to learn more for all of us, but right now I don’t like the idea that they put him on IR because they needed the roster spot. That’s such a lame excuse when you have other injured players who are much less valuable that a proven, vet LB, even if he isn’t that well liked by the staff. Even if Crowell lost his starting job over this, I’d still rather have him as the 4th LB, than a one-winged, 4th string, converted TE in Matt Murphy. This has to be the Bills sending a message of sorts to Crowell or an injury worse than reported. And honestly, injuries happen all the time. If the Bills staff couldn’t adjust to that so close to the season, there we’ve got bigger issues than an injured starting LB. Lots of other teams cut players this week who were “good enough” to make the team on Saturday. As we learned from the Godfather: “Your father wouldn’t want to hear this, Sonny. This is business not personal.”

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that it isn’t money, but teams play games with 5 active linebackers all the time. Having two backups at a spot where three players start doesn’t exactly leave the team in a dangerous spot.

Cutting Copeland Bryan or placing Matt Murphy on IR both make more sense to me than losing Crowell for the season (assuming it is a 2-4 week injury). A 5th DE and a 4th tackle are spots that are never active on gamedays, so I don’t see how it is even a difficult decision.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players don’t get an injury settlement for going on IR. The Bills will be paying Crowell his full salary this season. So the move wasn’t about money.

Injury settlements are only given to an injured player when he is released. They are there to help injured players who couldn’t make a team due to the injury. They don’t help teams in any way.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

when he’s healthy in a month, can’t he ask for his release? They’d have to give him an injury settlement since he’s on IR, right? If healthy, he’s going to want to play somewhere, and I’m not sure the team can keep a healthy player around in that case. Could be wrong….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The team can give him an injury settlement if they release him while he is hurt.

They can release when he is healed up without the injury settlement (I think).

They can let him rot on IR all year if they want to. Since they are still paying him while he is on IR, he can’t have a legal gripe with being unable to play. The team decides who to play and who to leave on the bench.

Since he is still on IR and not on waivers, I think the move can’t be money related. If someone wants to claim the team is being stingy if they release him, we can talk money then.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Geronimo

I think I read before you weren’t really high on Crowell. I took it with a grain of salt, as I thought he was a pretty decent LB. Turns out, it seems he may not be a OBD kind of guy. With that said, I wish they would have been able to trade him instead of just flat out releasing the guy (which is what this really is, considering it’s the last year of his contract). Anything would have been better than nothing, at least IMO.

by krytime on Sep 5, 2008 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see Geronimo

But I wish this would have been addressed earlier, than now. I have never thought Crowell was that great, but he has been a good player and have said in the past couple months that I don’t think we would sign him to an extension. Hope to hear more about this from you tomorrow.
Mario Haggan is still out there?

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Sep 4, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

But he’s on a 4 week suspension.

by twoeightnine on Sep 5, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Geronimo

Like I said, I think this was a calculated move by Crowell and that’s my opinion. Also reported by Chris Brown that Crowell was not at practice today. Sounds as if it was an unexcused absence because Chris said more will be learned after practice.

by the Skycap on Sep 4, 2008 11:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

surprise IR move

the window for a knee scope is 2-4 weeks? couldn’t the Bills have slept on this before pulling the IR gun out of the holster?

The only way this makes any sense is if the Bills really think they would be better off without Crowell and it could mean that they will try and sign a FA LB.

by LGB on Sep 4, 2008 11:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

they kind of have to sign a LB at this point….I’m guessing we’ll see Costanzo signed tomorrow

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 4, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roosevelt Colvin?

He’d be a good back-up option to Ellison. Well, he’s better than the alternative at this point…or maybe we could get Gabe Northern back

by DCRumbler on Sep 5, 2008 12:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

IF healthy

he’d be a nice backup/situational pass rusher. I like him for the latter, but I’m not sure how much he has left….

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Captaincy

You guys ever think thaat him losing his captain spot could have played a role in it…2 days after he is the only captain except for Losman to lose it..come on, the guy is selfish two days after he isnt selected captain he opts for optional surgery lets move on this team can do good without him

by mattsyracuse on Sep 5, 2008 4:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This was answered above in this thread… no. Bills players voted on captaincy. Crowell lost his C because of Whitner’s presence, and that’s really the end of that story.

by Brian Galliford on Sep 5, 2008 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

available free agents

are there any others avilable besides colvin and the lbs the bills already cut?

by jimkutica on Sep 5, 2008 8:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why not get Colvin

he knows all about the AFC East. Lets do it

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Sep 5, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

another possible senario

but not likely,
    the bills knew crowell had to have surgery and he will need more than just 2 -4 weeks recovery time. it could be major reconstruction. So they keep it on the Qt untill absolutly neccesary so the seahawks have less chance to game plan. just a thought.

by jimkutica on Sep 5, 2008 9:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or that they went in to scope and found out there was more damage than they thought. Or maybe they even botched the surgery and turned a minor injury into a major one.

Then again Crowell practiced on Wednesday so the injury couldn’t have been that bad. I wouldn’t rule that stuff out, but it seems pretty unlikely.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where was he yesterday? According to Chris Brown at BB.com, Crowell wasn’t at practice. Who performed the scope?

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the article I linked above said Crowell consulted with the team doctors before electing to have the surgery, so my guess is he was with them…

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well he wasn’t at practice meaning he wasn’t out on the field. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t at OBD. Chris Brown was at practice and didn’t see Crowell out on the field and that is where the report came from. He was at OBD, had the surgery yesterday and it was obviously performed by a doctor who is assiciated with the team.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It still could be that bad.

Look at Merriman. He’s been told by countless doctors to have season ending surgery. He said no and now there’s the chance that one wrong hit could end his career.

by twoeightnine on Sep 5, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

one wrong hit? One bad cut and his career could be over. He crossed the fine line between gutsy and stupid a couple miles ago.

Good point about the injury. I guess his practicing doesn’t mean much.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crowell to seek second opinion??

According to Dick Jauron, Crowell didn’t have the surgery. He wants to get a second opinion. Kaisertown, why didn’t he consider this before he informed the team that he was going to have surgery?

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's why
Whitner spoke with Crowell by phone Thursday as he was still dealing with the emotion of realizing his season was over before it started.

"I talked to him yesterday and it’s tough for him," said Whitner. "Going through training camp and offseason conditioning and three days before the opening game you’re out for the season? That’s tough mentally and physically because of all the hard work you put in running, lifting and film study. It’s like it’s all for nothing now and he expressed that to me yesterday. We’re going to help him get through it. As time goes on he’ll be able to cope with it a little better."

Crowell explained to Whitner that they were trying to get the knee well enough to play on, but that apparently never happened.

"They were really trying to see if the knee would get better without the surgery, as far as strengthening it and different things they were doing in the training room," said Whitner. "But it wasn’t getting better. So it’s time that he goes and gets it cleaned out."

I still don’t understand why the IR move though

~K

by Kurupt on Sep 5, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wake Up!!

Superfan82, for someone who thought that James Hardy was trouble, I can’t see how you don’t perceive Crowell as a “cancer.” Read what PFT is saying about this situation. I think they read our conversations last night. This guy pulled this stunt because (IMO) he didn’t get offered an extension. He wanted to show the Bills that he was a better option than Ellison/Corto/Digiorgio and the only way to do it was to sit out. He made this decision without consenting with the organization. Why wasn’t he at practice yesterday (according to Chris Brown)? Was it an unexcused absence? Where was he (at a doctor office getting his knee looked at)? I hope the media asks these questions today. It will be real interesting to see if he is around the team while he is rehabbing. If any of the above is true, I wouldn’t want him around either.

by the Skycap on Sep 5, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As MDS noted in the Frinday Morning One-Liners, Bills coach Dick Jauron said on Thursday that linebacker Angelo Crowell’s reverse-Merriman decision to have arthroscopic knee surgery came "out of the blue."

But even more confusing is the team’s decision to park him on injured reserve, which ends his 2008 season.

Per media reports, it originally was believed that Crowell would miss only two-to-four weeks. So now the question becomes whether the Bills will choose to attempt to work out an injury settlement with Crowell or, if unsuccessful, release him from IR when he is deemed to be healthy.

It’s a $1.3 million question for the Bills. If Crowell remains on injured reserve in Buffalo, he’ll get the whole amount.

Either way, Crowell won’t be a Bill as of March 1, barring a new contract. Given Thursday’s development, that’s looking unlikely.

That is what PFT wrote. Note that it doesn’t say anything about Crowell wanting a new contract, trying to send a message or anything even remotely similiar.

Was it an unexcused absence? Where was he (at a doctor office getting his knee looked at)?

He was at the Bills facility and the Bills doctors performed the surgery. I don’t remember where I read it, or which Bill said it, but I read yesterday that one of the players saw him in the trainers room before practice. So it isn’t like he just skipped practice and was a no-show. I am sure he will rehab at the Bills facility if they don’t release him. It will be the best facility he has access to and he gets to rehab and consult with the doctors and all that stuff for free. So I’m sure he will be around if they don’t release him in the next few days.

by kaisertown on Sep 5, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We've all had a good night's sleep...

Can we all step back, breath and relax a bit. One Crowell does not a season make. If this team really was only one player away from total disaster, than we had absolutely no business putting any faith in this 2008 team in the first place.

I trust DJ, Fewell, Modrak, Brandon (to a lesser extent on strict personnel decisions), et al for the simple fact that: 1) they are around those players every day, and most importantly, 2) they get freaking paid to ensure that they put the best freaking football team they can on that field. You need to prove to me otherwise if you disagree with that…I mean, what incentive is there to suck? They are pros, and no matter how great we are at being techies, lawyers, bible salesmen or car mechanics, we come to this blog to discuss Bills football because we’re not front office men and most likely not skilled or truly knowledgeable to run a pro franchise, no matter how much we fool ourselves into thinking otherwise because we had a good fantasy football draft.

 And seeing that, and honestly step back on this one, this cannot, no matter how you slice it, be a money-related decision. You just gotta defer to them on this one because we are completely ignorant of the real reason behind this move. We just are, and no amount of speculating or complaining about OBD changes that in any way. Don’t be so willing to jump off the bridge before Sunday. There are no dark clouds, guys. Football is about to begin again! See what product they put on the field first. I gotta feeling we’ll be ok. Now as for Peters…

by DCRumbler on Sep 5, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is what it is, let's move on.

No one likes a last minute surprises like this. What are our best options? Probably to start Ellison and pick up the best available OLB out there. I doubt we will find as good a run stuffer as Crowell,so that will hurt. But we probably will find somebody who is better against the pass. Last year it seemed Crowell was helpless in pass coverage.

by gjv on Sep 5, 2008 9:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don’t draft LB #1 this year. We have far more pressing needs than to waste a pick on outside linebacker when we already have two great LBs. Just play Ellison when you have to, and play more nickel, that’s the best way to do it. If you play DiGiorgio then you have no capable reserves.

Number one order of battle: Always keep a reserve.

by Dyl on Sep 5, 2008 2:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

sign Colvin

why not? He knows the division, the Pats, and he can blitz.

McKelvin and Hardy - rookies of the year

by poz on Sep 5, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DiGorgio?

Why has his name not been mentioned at all? I understand he may be a little undersized, however he proved last season he was a playmaker. I think he is head and shoulders above Ellison, and the little experience he has would the defense somewhat. Everytime I see Ellison on the field he looks lost and overpowered. DiGorgio is certainly fast enough, and has deceiving strength. He has a nose for the ball and I think is the best option on our roster right now….. However I hope Ellison makes the most of his opportunity.

by rcrumpley44 on Sep 5, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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