State of the Bills Roster: Free Safeties
by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2009 9:00 AM EST
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The "State of the Bills Roster" series trucks on! If you're new around these parts within the past nine months or so, this series is an off-season progression of posts in which we'll break down Buffalo's roster in-depth. From these discussions, we'll put together a "Community Needs List" in priority order, then begin researching potential free agent and draft acquisitions that will satisfy all of the Bills' needs as we perceive them.
We continue our foray into heavy-duty off-season work at Buffalo Rumblings right now. It's our "State of the Roster" series, off-season mode, and we'll continue the discussions by breaking down the Bills' situation at free safety.
Previous installments: QB :: RB :: TE :: WR :: OT :: G/C :: DE :: DT :: MLB :: OLB :: CB
New: Prioritized Offensive Needs List
Opening statement
Our very own Kurupt noted a disturbing stat this week in regards to the safety play of the Buffalo Bills: only three times in team history (that's 49 years) have Buffalo's safeties failed to record an interception throughout the course of a season. All three seasons have occurred since 2002. If that isn't indicative of Buffalo's serious lack of a playmaker at the safety position, then I'm not sure what is. This, folks, is an area of the team that defines what the Bills are all about. Here's why.
#20 Donte Whitner (starter)
5'11", 208 pounds
Age: 24 in July 2009
Contract status: 2 years remaining (UFA after 2010); owed $4.4M in base salaries.
- The first pick of the Dick Jauron era, Whitner has failed to live up to the expectations set for him as a top ten draft pick. Sure, he's averaged 85 tackles per season, but his tackle numbers have decreased in each of the past two seasons. He has just two career interceptions, two forced fumbles and seven passes defended. In three years. He's played in 43 games, and his biggest impact play came in his first game, when he intercepted Tom Brady in his NFL debut. Part of the problem with Whitner, however, may be the fact that the team can't find one position. He's played both safety spots as well as nickel cornerback in his Bills career to this point. If the Bills can keep Whitner in one spot and let him get comfortable for once - as well as upgrade the talent around him defensively - then he might grow into a productive role in Buffalo. I'm doing the dirty work for the Bills right now - Whitner should play free safety. I've said it for two years now. Until he gets help and he defines a role here, he unquestionably remains a disappointment.
#30 Ko Simpson
6'1", 202 pounds
Age: 26 in November 2009
Contract status: 1 year remaining (RFA after 2009); owed $530K in base salary.
- If Whitner is a disappointment, then Simpson is an utter failure. He re-gained his starting free safety spot entering the 2008 season, only to lose it when Bryan Scott out-played both he and Whitner, forcing the Bills to bench their 2006 fourth-round draft pick. Simpson played a significant amount at safety throughout the remainder of the season as the Bills continued to shuffle Whitner around the lineup like a utility infielder, but Simpson's impact was minimal. With one year at a cheap rate left on his deal, he'll be back. But it's clear at this point that Simpson isn't a starter in this league. At least not yet.
#37 George Wilson
6'0", 212 pounds
Age: 28 in March 2009
Contract status: Restricted Free Agent.
- It's unclear whether or not Wilson will be back. How often are 28-year-old restricted free agents re-signed? A captain of Buffalo's special teams unit, he - at the very least - has some value there. He's also - gasp! - made some plays from the safety spot in the past. (Just not last year.) As it stands right now, the Bills might actually get more bang for their buck by keeping Wilson as their top backup and either trying to move or flat-out releasing Simpson. The coaching staff loves Wilson's attitude.
The Breakdown
Keepers: Whitner. It's still too early to give up hope that he can be a competent player in this league, but the term "bust" is starting to get whispered. He needs to step up his game fast, and it'd be nice if the team helped him out by making things easier for him.
Extendables: Wilson. He clearly won't command significant cash, and he probably won't get a ton of interest from other teams. He's as good or better than Simpson is at safety, and his special teams value makes him worth keeping around.
Expendables: Simpson. Again, he'll probably be back because he's got some experience, but a reserve safety that play a limited special teams role might turn out to be a luxury that the team can't afford.
What we need: In reality, nothing is going to change here. I really believe that Whitner will find his role as the free safety next year. Wilson will probably be re-signed. Whether or not Simpson is retained is irrelevant if the first two occur. So personnel-wise, the free safety spot defines what the Buffalo Bills as a whole are all about: acceptable talent, terribly mediocre results. As long as the personnel is used wisely and the players find a way to make an impact, this spot is fine.
That's it. I'm done with the easy stuff. Now it's on you, folks. Do you believe Whitner will be the team's starter at free safety next season? Or should he remain in the box, where he's been highly average throughout his first three years? Do you prefer Wilson to Simpson, or vice versa? Have fun with this, and let's get brainstorming.
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Expendables: Simpson.
Are you CRAZY? That dude is worth millions. Just ask him he’ll tell you.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
someone had to say it....
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
ahhhhhhhhhhh
that will live in infamy. As far as Whitner goes. I don’t know where the kid fits. At 5’11" 208 lbs, he has nice size, is strong, athletic, but he just doesn’t seem like he is a great tackler or has great ball hawking skills. I honestly think he would be “best” utilized more in the box as a SS, and a frequent blitzer. They should run overload blitzes like the Ravens do with Ed Reed adding the overload. Why can’t Mitchell and Whitner do the same? That’s what I would like to see. Whitner taking on OL, FB, RB in blitzes and getting after the QB. He isn’t a great cover guy, doesn’t have the ball hawking skills. He will lay a lick on you if he can get to the spot where you are but he doesn’t show that agility and wherewithawl to to do that.
You could keep him at FS, let Scott be SS unless you find a better upgrade, but throw Whitner down in that box and blitz him often.
MARVelous
Well, the only issue with using Whitner as a blitzer is this...
He has piss poor tackling form, how often has he hurt his shoulder since he is lunging at guys trying to arm tackle them? At least 2-3 times this past season correct? Honestly, I don’t see how he stays on this roster once his contract is up. I have a feeling we draft a kid in the late rounds this year to replace him since Scott will be replacing Ko as the other starting safety.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
Here's a link
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/big12/0-6-100/Bradford-s-return-improves-Sooners—four-peat-hopes.html
Greshem is going back to Soonerville.
The fanpost is “Declarations…” on the right.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I posted this this morning in another thread only to see that now you are talking about whitner directly
Whitner’s numbers are sooooo baaad that there is no way that anybody can ever justify having taken him #8 overall. He is an absolute bust. He’s had three full years and he has regressed in every one. That being said I would not cut him but I guarantee you that if his play doesn’t dramatically improve, he won’t be renewed in Buffalo. I can’t believe that Jauron & Levy "overrode" Modrak to get him over Ngata. He produces like a 3rd rounder about to be cut!
Ed Reed was drafted in the first round of 2002 at #24
First 3 years of production:
2002: 85 Tackles, 12 PDef, 1 Sack, 5 INT
2003: 71 Tackles, 16 PDef, 1 Sack, 7 INT
2004: 76 Tackles, 17 PDef, 2 Sack, 9 INT
Donte Whitner was drafted in the first round of 2006 at #8
First 3 years of production:
2006: 104 Tackles, 5 PDef, 0 Sacks, 1INT
2007: 89 Tackles, 1 PDef, 0 Sacks, 1 INT
2008: 61 Tackes, 1 PDef, 1 Sacks, 0 INT
Whitner is not free safety material!!
Only 2 picks in 43 starts is horrible. There is no way that anybody can tell me that he’d be better at free safety than SS, After three full seasons he has a total of 2 INTs and only 7 Passes Defenced!! The only thing he seem to do fairly well is support the run & tackle but even that is very suspect as he doesn’t use good technique and often gets hurt in the process. I do however think that he is better than Brian Scott.
I would much prefer to see our brain trust go get a real FS like Sean Jones or even take a chance on a guy like Atari Bigby who has shown glimpses and who clearly has fallen out of favor in GB. Bigby is currently 3rd on their depth chart and he was undrafted so I think there is a chance that he will only get the minimum tender. At that price he would definitely be worth bringing in. Sean Jones is a true ball hawk and more importantly he is proof that you can still be a playmaker even though you play on a team with a lousy pass rush! I’ll admit that the wimpy Tampax-2 doesn’t help either but in the end, there is absolutely nothing that justifies switching Whitner to FS a position that clearly requires ball hawking skills which he clearly does not have!
Again sorry for the double post but this is where my comments deserve to be..
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
I’ll re-iterate two things:
One – we don’t know how Whitner would do full-time at free safety, because he’s never done it. Be skeptical all you want, but don’t write him off there, either.
Two – The Tampa 2 is NOT “wimpy” (good freaking football gods, you love that word). Our version of it is, but in its traditional sense, it’s a good defense.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Jones brought in, but he’ll be a pretty sought-after guy, and as for Bigby, I’ll pass.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 15, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
What is wrong with Bigby? I forgot to mention that I like Bigby at SS not FS.
Bigby would be an upgrade over Brian Scott in my opinion. He is much more of a playmaker. He was hurt last season early and never really recovered. His stats in 2007 were very good:
86 Tackles, 9 PDef, 0 Sacks, 5 INT
Why would you pass on him? Again, my point was that he is a RFA this year and given that he is listed as 3rd string because of his injury last year there is a good chance that he would only get the minimum tender. Given that he was undrafted, he could maybe be picked up for cheap.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
Isn’t Bigby the king of 15 yard penalties? I swear every time I watched the Packers in 2007 he was getting some personal foul or committing pass interference.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
You got me there
Because I don’t watch every GB Game. The games that I did watch he looked great and his stats are good as well. He definitely looked aggressive like Bob Sanders, so maybe he does make some mental errors. He is still quite young an innexperienced, you’d think that that kind of thing could be fixed.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
The only argument that I will say to this is that you cherry picked the best safety in the league. How many safeties compare well to Ed Reed? My guess would be not many. I’m not defending Whitner, his numbers are bad. I think they would be much better if the Bills could get a pass rush going. Reed has always had a front 7 that can get after the QB. I would bet that if Reed and Whitner switched places their numbers would be closer. Reed is still the better player no question about it, but this is an unfair comparison.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Front 7 – undoubtedly that is a fair counter argument. Also, the Ravens play an opportunistic defense, in part because of their ability through scheme and players to get at the QB. The Bills rely on hard-working white DE’s to take wide angles and never touch the QB, and sprinkle in a Mitchell/Poz cross blitz. It’s like they think they are genius’ for thinking of that blitz. When’s the last time you saw the Bills do creative things defensively?
Whitner is who he is. One day, maybe a front 7 will be dominant enough where we can finally see if Whitner can make plays. But his clock is ticking. Getting picked #8 overall means you SHOULD have an impact in the same sentence as Ed Reed, Polamalu and Bob Sanders. Donte Whitner simply isn’t even close to having that kind of impact.
MARVelous
Thank you Marv!
Sireric, my intent was not to cherry pick the best and I’ll admit it wasn’t a fair comparison. But my point was that Reed went #24 and Whitner went #8 – Front 7 or not, 2 INTs in three years is horrible! The point that I was also trying to make is that Jauron & Levy made a grave error in 2006 and should be made accountable for that. I really, truly hope that Modrak will have last say in this year’s draft! I wouldn’t be surprised if Whitner was one of the worse starting safeties in the league right now.. The problem with a guy like Jauron is that he surrounds himself with easy going, good character guys that will fit his system ( And I suspect he likes to take guys that won’t complain about the lack of aggressiveness ) No wonder he drafted Whitner, he fits that mold to a T!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
It's more than just numbers
Whitner has NO presence on the field. You really have no idea he’s out there until they show a replay of him missing a tackle or tackling a TE after he makes an uncontested catch.
It’d be one thing if the guy made a play here and there, but he’s done next to nothing here. I can’t envision a pass rush really helping him out all that much.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
yeah
that’s the argument. It’d be one thing if he had patches or flashes of “wow, did you see that.” But you hardly ever mention the guy unless he is being run over my lamont jordan or was it sammy morris in the NE game?
Nice guy, says all the right things, but just doesn’t cut it right now. Sure he is only going on 24 so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Which is pretty much what every Bills player is……“well if trent had a few more weapons” “well if Lee had a true #2 to take the pressure off of him” “If Lynch had any blocking” “if DJ had the right OC” “if Ralph just gave one person the voice instead of GM approach” “If they just hadn’t called that bootleg” etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc…..that’s 9 etc’s btw for the 9 straight non-playoff years
MARVelous
it all comes down to the GM
All these “if only”‘s are directly the result of not having a good GM. It’s starting to get annoying that Ralph doesn’t just make it happen
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
says all the right things
Didn’t he gaurantee the play-offs?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
Playoffs!? Playoffs!?
Jim Mora……. love that quote
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Telling stats, but tell me:
Does Ed Reed’s stat line look even remotely similar in a Bills uniform?
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Right. So that’s why I feel it’s unfair to rate Whitner against him. I don’t care that he was a #8 overall. Everyone in the top 64 is a risk on draft day. It’s the coaches job to get the talent out of him, imo. He’s not great ("highlight-wise) but he’s hardly a liability at the position.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone in the top 64 is a risk on draft day
Not much risk beyond round 1. In my opinion anything in the top 15 must turn out to be a difference maker, especially with the crazy salaries that these rookies are making nowadays. Every expert said in 2006 that the Bills were crazy and really reaching when they picked Whitner and that no way was he worth an eight overall pick, they were right!
Whitner is still owed 4.4M, which is a heck of a lot for what he does.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
good stuff keysh
I completely concur…..Whitner is a bust. He has the “character” they wanted….they thought maybe he would be a Reed or Sean Taylor. But he just isn’t. He says all the right things but he doesn’t produce. Had we drafted Ngata, this defense would be so much better off. Nabbing Ngata and Williams in one draft at DT surely would have been a feat.
Whitner is only viable down in the box. He can’t defend high quality TE’s like Scott can, but he could be used to blitz, support the run and defense some RB’s. I need to get my fanpost up, hopefully this weekend, but I have some good information that needs to be dispersed upon all of my fellow rumblers
MARVelous
Whitner
I’m afraid I have to agree with Marv on this one, which is that Whitner has been a bust. I love th guy to death for how he’s a true leader, who does and says all the right things, but when he gets on the field his ability just doesn’t show of. In college, I saw a guy, who did it all. He was a terrific hitman, strong run-stopper, extremely sure tackler, always in a position to make plays and who made plays, when his team needed him to. It’s tremendous that he’s really taking the young guys under his wings, but at the same time, he just hasn’t made enough plays to this point. The worst part of it imo is that it just seems like he’s never in a position to make plays. How often did you last season see him being close to making a pick. It’s not like he’s dropping ten pics a season. If this team is going to make the playoffs, Donte needs to make way more plays than what he has done these first three seasons.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Jan 15, 2009 11:05 AM EST reply actions
I love his character too
Character is a great “nice-to-have” but that’s not what wins football games.
I was all for what Marv set out to do a few years ago but certainly not at the expense of becoming an eternal loser. Character is great but it certainly does not have to come at the expense of playmaking abilities. I really hope that Jauron is set aside during the draft and they let Modrak do his thing!
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
So then the falloff from college to pro has to be:
Survey says: COACHING!
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
In defense of Donte Whitner
You guys throwing the “bust” label around really need to stop playing down how significant it is that he plays behind our front 7. You also need to remember that teams just short pass us to death all day, leaving little room for any playmaking safety to do anything. You also forget that we play behind a lot, especially over the last three years. Teams, when not dinking and dunking us to victory, are running the ball. It’s not like we ever find ourselves forcing anybody to make dangerous throws down field, which is what is required for any safety to make plays.
Most importantly, you forget that a players production is heavily dependent on the coaches ability to utilize said talent. All you have to do is look at Jim Leonhard and what he has been doing in Baltimore if you have any doubts that Whitner is not being used properly. I almost threw up when Jim Leonhard was all over ESPN for the last week taking interviews and answering questions and talking about how he’s ready to play beat em up football against the Steelers. If I recall he was a loser here in Buffalo. In the playoffs I think he has 2 sacks and 2 INTs already for the Ravens in the last TWO games.
Finally, how can you label someone who is 24 years old a bust? I think we forget how young he is. If he’s 26 and still declining in numbers then come back to me with this bust talk. I hate to say it but we’re not always going to have elite top 10 numbers by our players at every position which it seems like many of you expect. Lee Evans gives us another 1,000 yard season and he’s still not a good enough #1 around here so I don’t expect Donte to receive any better treatment but nonetheless it’s not Donte’s fault our front office was stupid enough to make him a top 10 pick. His expectations shouldn’t be based on that, they should be based on what we all knew his talent level was, in reality.
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
You also need to remember that teams just short pass us to death all day, leaving little room for any playmaking safety to do anything. It’s not like we ever find ourselves forcing anybody to make dangerous throws down field, which is what is required for any safety to make plays.
That’s the point of the Tampa 2. Nothign deep. Whitner is playing in left field and unless we get an immediate pass rush has very little access to balls thrown his way. He could be Ed Reed and Reed still wouldn’t have the numbers becuase of no opportunities. Just look at how Jim Leonard is playing with the Ravens. Create a pass rush and make the QB chuck it up and it’s amazing what happens.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Can't fully blame the Tampon 2
for the safeties not getting any picks…
Considering the Colts, Bears and Bucs also play this type of D, their safeties had:
7 INT’s (Indy)
8 INT’s (Chicago)
6 INT’s (Tampa)
Those teams obviously have better pass rushers, but they weren’t exactly dominant this year:
Indy 30 sacks
Chicago 28 sacks
Tampa 29 sacks
It is possible for safeties to get INT’s in the Tampa 2, even without a truly dominant pass rush. Now having no playmakers, no pass rushers and a super-conservative DC together is what really hurts….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
right.
It’s the complete package. They are all to blame at least partially.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I think I must disagree on the talent level talk here
Whitner may not be a bust in the “normal” sense, but I expect a man chosen in the 1st Round of the NFL draft to at least be able to tackle without injuring himself. Or see him overrun a short pass 8+ times in a game. Or be run over by backup, nearly washed up running backs. Those are things I find inexcusable by ANY player on this team.
So what if he is not as talented as Ed Reed, very very very few players will ever be close to him in sheer talent. But they can AT LEAST be fundamentally sound in how they play football, and right now, Whitner and Ko both do NOT cut the cake there, so to speak. Both are horrible in the open field tackling, and both have issues on taking angles, and both cannot make a form tackle to save their lives. Having better talent in front will help, somewhat, but the basic fundamentals on these two guys are quite horrible.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
that is fair
Whitner does have a lot of technical work to do but he still does make a lot of tackles so he can’t be all that terrible. Also, Morris was running over a lot of players and teams this year so I think he proved he wasn’t washed up.
I really just feel that if Whitner was playing for a different team he would be considered one of the best in the league. Coaching has to take the blame at some point for a guy who came in and had a very good rookie year and then plateaued. It is the job of the coaches to get the most they can out of a player and every time a player leaves Buffalo, even a backup, it seems like wherever they go other coaches are getting more out of them then we did. Again, he’s 24, I think technique will get better, it should have already, but again that may be coaching.
When it comes down to it, he still lights people up when he gets a chance to lay a hit, he’s a vocal leader, I would say of all the four starters in our secondary, he has been the most reliable. The rest are always up and down. Who knows, maybe Brian is right, he’ll be better at FS all I know is that you are correct, he does seem like he lacks fundamentals, but sometimes I wonder why and look at the coaches.
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
I’ll back your sentiments all day. He’s a perfect example of talent thru coaching.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Can Ko Simpson really be called an utter failure???
He was a 4th round pick who was well below average as a rookie starter. Him not being able to tackle isn’t surprising, as he couldn’t do it then.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
If he is a solid back-up in your mind you can't call him that
4th round draft pick you expect to hit once in a great while. Most of the time these guys are supposed to be solid backups/borderline starters. I think Ko fits in there somewhere.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
And Ko....
you’re worth thousands….. maybe.
I’m Matt Warren with the Teacher’s Union…. I’m worth dozens. DOZENS
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Dozens of what? Donuts? Students? Pennies?
Need some context there pal!
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
dolla' bills
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ahhh, I was hoping for Donuts
Donuts are tasty…… I miss Dunkin’ Donuts…..
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
Washington doesn't have DnD????
travesty! I mean I know it’s the Starbucks capital of the world but not even one? I drive past three one my twenty minute drive to work. I have some whole beans in my pantry and I have fresh ground too if I am feeling lazy. My apologies.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Whitner
definitely had not turned out to be worth the 6th best player in 2006. Vince Young was taken 3rd and might be the only other player that did not live up to his hype. I remember watching that draft and hoping the Bills would take Ngata, or Broderick Bunkley. And of course, Marv must fell asleep before the pick and had some Ohio State premonition. Leinert was taken 10th in that draft and so was Jay Cutler, that hurts!!!
Leinart?? Are we really pining for him over Whitner?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
The next QB the Bills take, best be one who’s handled a cold football in the wind and snow before.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Reggie Bush? He was supposed to change the game. He’s Eric Metcalf. Leinart. Vernon Davis has been better than anything the Bills have but was supposed to be Gates Jr. Michael Huff was selected one pick before Whitner and has less tackles and INTs plus was benched this year. Jason Allen is a backup. Tye Hill has been a failure after a decent rookie season. Bobby Carpenter has started one game in his career and averages just over a tackle a game. McCargo…. ugh. Kelly Jennings.
The first round that year is filled with a bunch of guys who wouldn’t be picked where they were if it was conducted again.
by twoeightnine on Jan 16, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
great call
have to give credit where its due. I will openly admit I was mad because i wanted Leinart. I’ll Whitner over him today
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
If the Bills were to let Whitner go...
Baltimore with scoop him up.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions
“would” and furthermore, he’d become a stud.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Was that furthermore a pun?????"
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
like nevermore.... get it?
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Heh – the teacher in you is showing like a Tell-Tale Heart.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 15, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
ooooo
another pun… well done. This one was really good, too.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 15, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I also hate bashing on players like Donte
who contribute despite flaws when we have such unbelievable ineptitude at interior line blocking, pressuring the quarterback, and tight end receiving. It’s sort of along the lines of let’s make sure the brakes to the car are working again before we start talking about the scratches on the door.
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
its all relative
he was picked #8 overall…..got paid huge money……just like when the Bills were 5-1 we expected a playoff season. And because Donte was picked so damn high and we all hoped he would be the Ed Reed, Polamalu type and he isn’t a game changer. Defenses don’t plan for him. He can’t cover elite TE’s and he gets run over by 30 year old RB’s. So we are just calling a spade a spade and nothing more. Sure there are deficiencies, but even donte said with having Stroud & Mitchell coming in he said he would have a lot more opportunities to make plays and that simply never happened.
MARVelous
Actually the reverse has happenned. He went from 104 tackles to 89 and now down to 61, and the INTs or PDef have not increased so in fact Stroud/Michell have not really helped him.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
Actually, you would prefer your safeties / cornerbacks have less tackles. That means your DL / LB are getting a greater share, and that is good for your team. What would be bad is he was torched regularly and was out of position. I don’t think he was. He’s solid, all we need now is that pressure whether from DE or LB, doesn’t matter which, to cause opposing QB’s to make bad decisions. That is what we are missing. We cannot really comment on Whitner’s playmaking until we have a pass rush. One is directly linked to the other. The other safeties of which you speak, Ed Reed (BAL) and Polamalu (Pitt) have something in common – Great DL / LB play. Safeties can be the icing on a great defense, but they do not create a great defense by themselves. Without good players in the box, even great safeties look ordinary. Also, if you really watch Polamalu, his deficiencies (Freelancing) are covered up by the play of those around him. If he was on our team, he’d look kind of like our own Kawika Mitchell, maybe worse, because we don’t have the personnel to cover up his gambling. Watch hime the next couple of weeks, he really is a Ray Lewis, ‘Jump on the pile and look like you were FLYING to the ball’ type. For sure Troy makes plays, but mostly thats a by-product of his teams above average defense.
I guess the argument I’m making is Donte is probably not as much of a bust as we think looking at his stats. However, it seems any team in rebuilding should NEVER use their 1st round pick on a safety of any sort. So, I don’t look at Whitner as a bust, I look at the Bills FO picking him 8th as a bust. Does that make sense? The pick is a bust, even though Whitner might not be. Especially because we could have gotten Ngata, and I believe taking any of the big boys (OL/DL) in the 1st probably is a great way to build a draft.
Excellent point!!
However, it seems any team in rebuilding should NEVER use their 1st round pick on a safety of any sort.
This is exactly the point! Instead of getting guy that could anchor the D-Line for the next decade, they picked a safety? Why? Because they let their HC have the last say. Any smart GM would tell you that you start by building the lines then move outwards, what good is a safety when you are unable to stop the run or get pressure on the QB? What good is a QB or receiver if the O-Line doesn’t give the QB time to throw? Jauron & Levy were foundamentally wrong to pass-up Ngata and pick Whitner, then having to wholesale other picks just to get back up to get a DT, which was a huge need at the time.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
You guys are preachin’ to the choir, man. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 16, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
good point
must have been that 5th cup of coffee today due to it being -24 degrees when i woke up this morning
MARVelous
I don’t drink coffee. So when I mess up and you catch me on it and I use that excuse, feel free to call me a liar.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
4th round picks are exactly a guarantee success in the NFL......
so I think calling him a Failure is going a bit too far….its like a 50/50 shot with guys drafted in rounds 3-5 in my opinion……..
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions
that was supposed to be arent*
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 15, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Think outside of the box: McKelvin to FS
The problem with Whitner at FS, as others have noted, is he is not a playmaker. He’s too short and too slow and his coverage skills in the slot are way overrated. He’s steady at SS, where he belongs. McGee was outstanding down the stretch and Greer was our best CB until he got hurt. Simpson lost what range he had with his injury and won’t be on the roster next year. They should seriously think about moving McKelvin to safety if he can handle the assignments. He’s our best playmaker and has the most range. Wouldn’t you like to see him breaking on balls over the middle and going the other way a la Ed Reed, like the way he jumped the slant in KC? Yeah, call me crazy, but think about it before you do.
McKelvin’s athleticism would be completely wasted at safety. Plus, his lack of tackling would be completely exposed. No, McKelvin was born to play CB, brother, and there he shall stay. He can make plays at CB just fine.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 17, 2009 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Whitner does not know how to tackle. That is painfully obvious. I cannot believe that a) the coaching staff has not spent time with him to teach him, or b) Whitner has not taken the time to teach himself. Does he not recognize his deficiency? Does he not wish to improve his game? He looks very hesitant sometimes in not wanting to make the tackle. This should be a no brainer. If he went to Pittsburgh or Baltimore that would be the first thing they would do with him. Teach him how to tackle properly. In a Bills uniform he would look MUCH better if he only learned the fundamentals of tackling. It is holding him back bigtime.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
I fail to see how DW could pick up 101 tackles in his rookie year if he was a ‘piss poor’ tackler Come on. We’re not talking 50, 60, 70 tackles here. A hundred and one. And about his tackling numbers increasing, it’s been nice to have Poz and the other linebackers pick up the slack. I’d rather my LBs make the tackles than the Safeties. That means less are getting through to the secondary!
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