I guess I was dreaming when I added 10 to the net number of sacks if Buffalo took a DE at #11. It does speak to the wisdom of bringing in a free agent DE but who can the Bills attract/afford that will bring pressure on opposing QBs on a regular basis?

Good work. If the Bills had been able to take Harvey last year like two handsome guys here at Rumblings were pining for this would be moot. A stud rookie might not solve the problems but he will help now and in the future.

DE has sort of become the WR of last years draft. The Bills need help there but can’t expect a rookie to help. So they need a vet and a rookie to improve the pass rush.

Well done and rec’d. I would love it if we took Mack in the first round, but I still have trouble believing the Bills will use pick #11 on a center.

I think when everything is said and done, Buffalo will have no choice but to draft a DE early, or go into next season with the players they already have.

Julius Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 and will demand 10 mil a year. We can basically cross him off the list of free agents the Bills can sign.

I think Suggs gets resigned by Baltimore. They may not look like they have a lot of cap space on paper, but they only paid 91 mil in salary this year (2nd lowest in the league). The Ravens have tons of dead money clogging up the cap, but contracts for Ogden and McNair are finally off the cap after next season. Baltimore probably has more real dollars to spend on free agency this offseason than any other team in the league. I think they will have no problem locking up Suggs despite Brown and Lewis also being priorities.

I can only assume that Arizona is more and more likely to resing Berry as they march closer and closer to the Super Bowl partially because due to Berry’s good play. AZ should have some cap room to play with once they cut Edge James and Chike Okeafor. I’m thinking its 50/50 that Berry makes it to free agency.

With the next best option being Demetric Evans, I’m not sure that Buffalo addressing DE through FA is a realistic possibility.

I also think the logic that Buffalo shouldn’t draft a DE in round one because they typically don’t produce as rookies doesn’t work. When your team isn’t set up to win in the short term then you shouldn’t be sacrificing the long term for the short term in the draft. I don’t care if a DE won’t help the pass rush much as a rookie, what I care about is which player makes this team most likely to win a Super Bowl in a few seasons. I’m convinced Buffalo needs to find a stud pass rusher to ever get to that level. They need to draft a DE if they ever want to become an elite team.

not worth it……

Its a crap shoot look at julius with 12 and mario as you said some players take time to develop . schobel and denney are not the answer don’t take a center with the 11th pick trade down if thats our dream but if not EVERETTE BROWN .

This is harder and less concrete to speculate on, but who could be are Stroud this year? I see the Bills making a good trade or two plus a big free agent signing. Swinging for the fences should be the motive, whether they do it or not is still there to see. But I think the Bills have made smart and conservative moves the past couple offseasons, better last year, but I think they can make something happen. But I will not judge anything, or at least try not to, until we see next season unfold.

Since when is an immediate impact the only reason to draft someone??? That sure seems to be the thought process going on here.

Who here thinks the Bills will sign Peppers or Suggs? All I hear is a couple of crickets. It ain’t happening. The next best option is Bertrand Berry and….? Even if the Bills do sign Berry, who’s at the end of his career being 34, where does that leave us in 2010, 2011, 2012…??? Exactly where we are right now. I want to sign Berry, but that’s to help ease our talented young rookie into the lineup, as well as to replace Kelsay. I don’t want Berry as this magical FA addition where we think the pass rush is fixed because he isn’t going to be that guy.

I’ve said it for 2 years now. We need to add youth and talent to the position. Trying to address the pass rush with an aging vet or some other cheap option is not how I want to build a strong pass rush, nor do I see it working. I want to add one of the most talented pass rushers in the draft, which is very likely at #11. I don’t want to add some third rate option like Chris Ellis again this year, because I don’t see how that is going to do anything for us in the short term AND down the road. We don’t need depth, we need a top flight DE, a true pass rushing stud that will help every facet of the defense. The only place we’re finding that is early in the draft, unless we somehow luck into a Justin Tuck in round 3 or Jared Allen in round 4, which I doubt happens under this front office.

I know Jauron is coaching for his job this year but addressing the absolute woeful lack of a pass rush by adding a Bertrand Berry is not going to help him. Don’t you think he’d rather take a chance on an excellent pass rush talent like Orakpo, Brown or Johnson? Berry would probably get 5-7 sacks, at most, while one of the rookies have the potential to give us double digit sacks. Of course, it’s very unlikely for that to happen, but going for the guy with the much, much higher ceiling could be most appealing to Jauron and friends.

Maybe it’s because I don’t see this team competing for anything substantial in 2009, but dismissing this uber-need for another year by bringing in a mid level draftee or aging vet is really going to disgust me. We’ve neglected the position for so long, IMO, and are so old, slow, undertalented and bad that it would be ridiculous to not try to upgrade the talent and speed.

I know everyone else in this thread seems to think drafting Alex Mack at #11 is the way to go, or at least it appears that way. Why is he such a guarantee at #11? Why is it such a guarantee that he’d be able to start immediately and be the guy everyone says he’ll be? I know it’s much more likely that he would be an immediate and impactful contributor right away, but nobody knows for sure. Apparently, it is known that a DE won’t help us right away.

We’ve gotta build a pass rush, fellas, not just find some one year fix!!! That’s all we’d be able to bring in in FA anyways….

Now Center is a position that can much more easily be filled in FA or in the 2nd round. I would fully expect a 2nd round Center to be able to play right away. I just can’t get behind a Center at #11 no matter how good Mack may be. Getting a top notch pass rush talent and then the 2nd or 3rd best Center in round 2 is so much more enticing to me that Mack and a much lesser pass rush talent.

Remember, we were able to run the ball pretty well this year. 14th in rush yards per game and 14th in yards per carry. This was with potentially the worst Center situation in the league. On the other hand, with one of the worst DE situations in the league, we mustered just 24 sacks, good for 28th in the league. I know I don’t remember too many QB pressures either.

6 of the 13 teams who finished ahead of us in rush yards missed the playoffs, and 8 of the 13 who had a higher ypc missed the playoffs as well. I don’t know if that means anything, but it is possible to win without having a top run game, or should I say it’s still possible to be a loser even if you run the ball well. Just one playoff team finished the season in the bottom half of the league in sacks, and that was 8-8 San Diego. I’m guessing that sacks and pressures have a strong correlation, as well. Seems to me that having a great pass rush is a better predictor of success than is a run game, though obviously having both is what’s going to really get you places.

Basically, we have much, much further to go in having a top pass rush, than we do to achieve a top run game and OL blocking. At least in these super unscientific terms.

I thought I had everyone convinced that improving our pass rush was the way to go?!?!?! We aren’t improving it via FA, I can almost guarantee that!

Yep. Would still add a DE in free agency AND in the first round. Yeah, we need production from the ends, but not as frequently discussed is our need for youth. If we sign a veteran, we’d have four veterans and Chris Ellis. There’s still no future at the position. DE is a premium position, so I’d still take one early, let them play situationally, and draft a center in the second round.

You can’t let historically slow (and by slow, I mean "still mostly better than the Bills’ current ends) production deter you from taking a top-flight talent. Otherwise, quarterbacks would never be first-round picks.

Kenechi Udeze and playing him at Kelsay’s spot. Bigger and better vs Run and can get sacks from LDE

UFA who sat out 2008 while undergoing chemo for Leukemia, supposedly in remission now.

If a rookie DE creates more pressures and hurries than Kelsay and Denney, it makes an immediate impact. If a rookie DE has physical tools to keep his eyes open and contain his side, it would be an immediate impact over “I’m trying so hard that I can’t think” Kelsay.

I don’t think I have seen a fanpost on here actually using stats to make an argument that I disagree with more, but this proves why this site is so great. This thought that a DE at #11 wouldn’t even have a chance to make an immediate impact (unless we saw the second coming of Bruce) would have never have crossed my mind.

We have to go and get a quality DE prospect this year even if he doesn’t immediately produce (I for one am not expecting huge production the first year). If we don’t and we keep settling for late round picks that we hope turn into gems, then we are going to keep ending up with more chris kelsay’s. If we don’t geta quality DE prospect now? when and how else do you expect us too. I believe good teams are built throught the draft not free agency and if we don’t go big or go home on DE this year with allof the talent out there then I feel like next year we are going to say the same thing about drafting a DE #1 (“we won’t get immediate production”) . We have alot of flaws as a team guys, and its time to start addressing them the way they should be. If you expect us to be a superbowl contender or something if we pick up some great FA DE then your wrong. We have alot of needs to take care of and it will take some time to shape this team up so while we wait for the final product, we should pick a DE at 11 and let him grow into a dominant pass rusher for when our team is ready for that superbowl run. thats all I gotta say, criticize if you want

I think most of the comments with specific examples in this thread are fine. I just don’t agree with general lack of patience and overall draft philosophy.

The solution is not to “win at all costs in 2009” and problem has not been “building for the future”. The problem has been mistakes within that framework such as Jauron, Losman, Kelsay, Fowler, Royal, etc. I am more concerned about the future than about 2009, if that makes any sense. If the Bills acquire great players for the future and Jauron gets fired, so be it. If the next head coach is any good, he won’t have to “clean house” and get rid of all the great players. He will be able maximize the talent on the roster by creating a scheme based on the players, regardless of what “scheme he ran” in the past. Unfortunately, impatience prevents teams from doing what is best for the long haul. The focus of the draft should not be to get the players that will provide the most immediate impact, but to acquire the best talent and build the roster for the future. Take care of the future, and the future will take care of the present.

When the draft arrives, I say pick the best available player regardless of positional need. If that player happens to be a defensive end, great. If you have a group of players with very close grades, then maybe consider positional need to break the tie. Just don’t reach for need, because that allows other teams to get the better players. If you have the chance to get something special, don’t pass it up.

As for the specific examples in this thread, I just think it’s case-by-case with me. Free agents, trades, draft. There are so many different scenarios. I generally don’t agree with spending great resources on players near/over 30 because those players are usually on the downside of their careers. However, Peppers would be an exception because of his rare talent. Peppers probably still has several productive years left. Peppers can also play left defensive end, not just right defensive end, and make Kelsay expendable. Spending minor resources on short-term solutions can have a role on the team, also.

I gotta say, I’d like to see Mack. More than just the physical skills, I think that the aggressive mentality would be a big boost. Our line is big enough and physically gifted enough to dominate, but the mentality has to be there. Preferably, I’d like to see the Bills trade down.

And I will beat this drum from now until the draft: Please invest multiple picks in the D line. Assuming 7 draft picks the ideal scenario would be a C, a TE, two DEs, one DT, a FB, and developmental QB.

You can’t evaluate the performance of a defensive end without looking at who was playing the other defensive end. Phil Hansen did an excellent job at DE but only because he had Bruce on the other end.
DE’s are like socks, shoes, cuff links and earrings: they come in pairs.

I think the discussion that’s going on right now has gotten away from what the true distinction is in opinions, so lets clear it up.

Everyone wants Buffalo’s pass rush to improve. The distinction lies in how we want Buffalo to address it. On one side you have those who wnat a DE in round 1 of the NFL Draft. They argue that a free agent defensive end is a pipe dream becuase either the talent wont be available or Buffalo can’t or won’t get the guy they want. On the other side, you have those who want the Bills to adderess the DE position in free agency. I’m on this side becuase I don’t believe that it’s a foregone conclusion that the Bills don’t have a real shot at a top notch DE in free agency if they really wanted one.

Now, if free agency comes and goes without a top-notch DE addition, then I think you would have quite a large consenus for DE in the first round. Not everyone is at that point yet though.

In reality, its a very small distinction, but is sure drawing a lot of discussion!

Looks like Dallas might be primed to make a run at Ray Lewis

This might mean that Baltimore might have to use the tag on Lewis, which would leave Suggs “un-protected”.