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State of the Bills Roster: Wide Receivers


Reed's importance displayed in 2008 (buffalobills.com)

The "State of the Bills Roster" series trucks on! If you're new around these parts within the past nine months or so, this series is an off-season progression of posts in which we'll break down Buffalo's roster in-depth. From these discussions, we'll put together a "Community Needs List" in priority order, then begin researching potential free agent and draft acquisitions that will satisfy all of the Bills' needs as we perceive them.

Hey - at least this way, we're doing the job right. Right? Unlike a certain front office we're forced to support.

And now, we continue our foray into heavy-duty off-season work at Buffalo Rumblings. It's our "State of the Roster" series, off-season mode, and we'll continue the discussions by breaking down the situation at Buffalo's wide receiver position.
  Previous installments: QB :: RB :: TE

Opening Statement
In the NFL, wide receivers unsurprisingly tend to go as quarterbacks go.  As a result, Buffalo's receivers as a group were up and down in 2008, largely because quarterback Trent Edwards was up and down.  This receiving corps was certainly better in 2008 than they were in 2007, but that isn't exactly saying much.  There is talent here, but for now, it's being seriously hampered by its collective youth as well as Edwards' own inexperience.

#83 Lee Evans (starter)
   5'10", 197 pounds
   Age: 28 in March 2009
   Contract status: 4 years remaining (UFA in 2013); owed $20.4 million base salaries and $5 million in roster bonuses over the final 3 years of the deal
- He got his big extension this year, and now the Bills have Evans locked up for the prime of his career.  Evans will probably never be considered an "elite" receiver in the NFL, but he's good enough to start for most teams.  He needs more help; Buffalo's two rookies did little to take defenders away from Evans, and even a solid season from Josh Reed didn't help.  Evans should be devastating once a second threat is found; until then, he'll be hot and cold, just as he has been during his entire Bills career.

#82 Josh Reed (starter)
   5'10", 210 pounds
   Age: 29 in May 2009
   Contract status: 1 year remaining (UFA in 2010); owed $2.025 million in base salaries
- Put together a solid season with 56 grabs and established himself as Edwards' go-to target in clutch situations.  People also forget that Reed is barely a year older than Evans; he's got some serious years left in the tank.  He is tops in this receiving corps in the most critical area: knowing how to get open.  With one year left on his deal, the Bills might - probably won't, but it's debatable as to whether they should - look at extending Reed this off-season.

#11 Roscoe Parrish
   5'9", 171 pounds
   Age: 27 in July 2009
   Contract status: 3 years remaining (UFA in 2012); owed $3.05 million in base salaries, $1.5 million in signing bonuses and $1.5 million in roster bonuses
- He'll never be more than a gadget player in this league, but his modest salary and bonus structure is worth it simply because he's the game's most dangerous punt returner.  At this point in his career, however, counting on him to emerge as a viable receiver is a waste of time.  He has a role in Buffalo, but it's only prominent on special teams.

#13 Steve Johnson
   6'2", 210 pounds
   Age: 23 in July 2009
   Contract status: Entering second year of undisclosed, multi-year contract.
- Johnson became a viable option for Buffalo at the end of his rookie season, but let's not get starry-eyed; we're talking about a guy who caught 10 passes this season.  He's got a load of potential, though, and he's got the goods to be a spot contributor in his second year in the league.  To rely on him as anything more as a slot option in spread formations next year is risky business, however.

#81 James Hardy
   6'6", 220 pounds
   Age: 24 in December 2009
   Contract status: Entering second year of undisclosed, multi-year contract.
- Quite possibly Buffalo's biggest disappointment in 2009, Hardy caught just 9 passes as a rookie when the Bills needed much more.  That said, he's still got the raw tools to excel in this league, particularly in the red zone.  It's far, far too early to give up on Hardy at this point, but just like fellow rookie Johnson, to expect a landmark rise in production next year is unrealistic.

#17 Justin Jenkins
   6'0", 207 pounds
   Age: 29 in December 2009
   Contract status: Restricted Free Agent
- As an RFA, Jenkins' chances of returning next season are about 50/50.  He was solid on special teams this past season, but didn't have the impact there that he did in 2007 and found himself inactive on a few Sundays this season.

Other receivers on the roster: Felton Huggins, C.J. Hawthorne (both practice squad)

The Breakdown
Keepers: Evans, Reed, Parrish, Johnson, Hardy.  Yep, all five of 'em.  As a group, their skills are diverse and there's a nice mix of veteran and youth.  I'm not saying that this is a complete receiving corps, but all five have a place on next year's team.

Extendables: None.  Almost put Reed here, and certainly wouldn't mind seeing him extended, but we have bigger fish to fry with next year's money.

Expendables: Jenkins, Huggins, Hawthorne.  Jenkins is a run-of-the-mill special teams guy, and it's certainly not a necessity that he stay.  Hawthorne has practice squad eligibility left, and the skills to contribute at some point; expect him to be stashed again next season.

Goners: None.

What we need: The Bills have five "keeper" receivers in their receiving corps, yet they're still missing a piece.  They need that one veteran guy (not named Parrish) that can contribute as a second or third receiver and allow Buffalo's young, talented receivers - Johnson and Hardy - to develop without being pressured to contribute unrealistically.  I don't want to name names, but I think it'd be a huge deal to lure a guy like New England's Jabar Gaffney into Buffalo.

That's it. I'm done with the easy stuff. Now it's on you, folks. Got any tough love for Evans as a "#1" receiver? Want to talk more about what a pleasant surprise Reed has been? Want to gush over Johnson/Hardy's potential some more? Have any names of potential additions you'd like to throw into the ring? Have fun with this, and let's get brainstorming.

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A reminder on the importance of a #2

I’m all for bringing a gaffney-esque WR in during the offseason. I like Josh Reed, but he doesn’t draw coverage away from lee evans. Remember that Andre Reed’s Bills didn’t explode until they got James Lofton.

As for Parrish, I’d rather let McKelvin try his hand with punts and give Rosco the boot. He makes a lot of mistakes returning punts, for all his explosiveness, and he flat out has bad hands as a receiver. 3 Million a year seems a lot for a gadget when the team has so many bigger needs.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 2:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

regarding Parrish – we are good in cap standing so i’m not concerned at all at his cap hit. I also think they don’t use him the way they should. Seems to me that other teams can get their special players a play or two a game that at least net 10 yards, yet the Bills don’t seem to be able to do that. We’ve gone entire stretches of games without calling a WR screen to Roscoe and I think it should be a staple of our 4 WR set.

Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider

by J2 on Jan 2, 2009 2:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

You obviously have to avoid being predictable about how you do it, but it seems to me that the Jets have been able to get Brad Smith the ball on a pretty consistent basis.

by PozDispenser on Jan 2, 2009 3:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

absolutely

The Jets have get brad smith the ball, the dolphins run the wildcat, the patriots do all kinds of things…we’re the only team that refuses to do anything interesting to maximize the talent we have on the roster.

Not calling a reverse to roscoe when we refused to throw the ball week 17, continuing to just run off guard play after play….it was criminal.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

and we really are super young offensively. I think adding some key veteran FA’s this year would really help this out. Get a veteran QB, WR, FB, and add them to the mix. We need guys that have been there done that. Not more youth

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 2, 2009 5:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not buying it at all. Brad Smith touched the ball 24 times this year and picked up 177 yards. Wow, 1.5 touches per game and suddenly the Jets can get Brad Smith the ball while Roscoe and his 26 touches for 261 yards is unacceptable?

I feel like a lot of people around here have a serious “grass is always greener” type disorder where we overly critique the Bills who we watch play every week and assume that other teams are simply doing things better. I bet there are some Jets fans right now complaining about how Brad Smith doesn’t touch the ball enough or doesn’t get the right playcalls to be effective and they are talking about what a great returner and special athlete Parrish is and the way the Bills really know how to use him.

by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2009 7:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

thank you kaiser

im not pinning anything on this specific incident but I have noticed a lot of people point out the flaws of the Bills, which stick out so easily for us because we watch every play of the season and then compare them to other teams and talk about how much worse we do things when in reality we simply do not pay enough attention to other teams every play to see all the crap they deal with as well.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 7:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m still guilty of it all the time and I bet you are too. It’s just that we get so emotionally invested in the team that we hold them to a higher standard then we hold other teams to. Thanks for the support. We’ve been seeing eye to eye quite a bit lately.

by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2009 7:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have noticed that

and yes, you are certainly right, I am often guilty of it myself, comes with the territory of being a Bills fan I guess.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 11:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true but...

yes roscoe had more touches than brad smith, but brad is their gadget, whereas Roscoe is a gadget whom we pretend is a 3rd wide receiver. So yes Roscoe touched the ball more, but it’s because we tried to use him as a good wideout, which he is not…I’m not saying you’re wrong…but it’s different.

And do you think there is a less creative offensive football team than buffalo? i don’t.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 11:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Roscoe....

We should utilize him in the way the Pats use Welker.

There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?

by MonStarr_716 on Jan 3, 2009 12:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No way

He is not tough enough and gets stopped on the LOS, he was horrible in relief of Josh Reed. I agree with Brian, he is a gadget player & a great Punt Return Man, that’s it!

BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13

by keysh67 on Jan 3, 2009 1:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s too bad he’s nowhere near as good as Welker….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 3, 2009 2:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i meant on the fasion of giving him a lot more touches via WR "bubble"screens…the man is flat out dangerous in space

There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?

by MonStarr_716 on Jan 8, 2009 9:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Injury

I think its important to discuss Hardy’s injury situation heading into next year if we are going to build our needs list properly. If Hardy’s injury has the potential to keep him out for an extended time frame next season then WR becomes a much larger need. If Hardy can’t go we’ll need to find a big WR for next year. Even if Hardy is ready to play but misses training camp we’ll need to find someone. I wish we had tried for Muhsin Muhammad when he left the Bears.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would not count on Hardy helping us much next year,

but Johnson might get us off the hook. He looked really good and should compete for the #2 spot.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2009 2:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i hope you are right

I really want Stevie to become our #2 receiver. He looked reliable when the ball was thrown his way and in limited time demonstrated he could get open in the endzone. Something you know Joe has been a real problem for our wide receivers for what, 3 years now?

I hope Stevie is motivated after getting playing time and with the opportunity to pass Hardy on the depth chart (and maybe Reed) to work as hard as possible this off-season.

Grabbing a pass-catching TE could also get us off the hook but we’ve been waiting for one of those for a while haven’t we?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 2:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes we have been waiting a long time, poz

Like Brian said, relying on Johnson is a little risky, but of all the risks we have talked about so far, I feel best about this one.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2009 3:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't Hardy tear an ACL?

If so, isn’t that pretty much a 12 month recovery timeframe? If that’s the case then Hardy won’t even play next season since he got the injury at the end of this season….

by Ron From NM on Jan 2, 2009 6:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ACL tears and repairs

Typically take a full calendar year from the time of surgery to heal completely, and for the athlete to begin getting back into normal playing form. Recent example being Donovan McNabb last year (2007) when everyone was claiming he was done, then he went on a tear at the end of the year. Why? Becuase he was finally fully healed up from the injury at this point.

And I am not blowing smoke out of my rear end on this gang, I worked a couple of seasons with my college as a assistant to the sports med department and helped with rehabbing alot of ACL injuries. Hardy will be able to play come Sept. but won’t be even half of the player he was this year, which is scary to think about since he wasn’t much, and won’t really be back into the swing of things till late Nov.

We need to consider getting a vet on a 1 year deal to cover while he is out. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is on the PUP list for TC.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 2, 2009 7:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

3-4 threats

SInce almost all our losses were against the 3-4, and not knowing much about football science, what would help a young QB the most against the 3-4? A stronger running game(new center), a pass-catching TE, or another veteran WR that can get open?

I know we can never ‘have it all’ and I wonder if the team acquired a center and TE in the off-season if they could leave the WR core ‘as-is’.

by south123 on Jan 2, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Center

with the massive size of the typical 3-4 Nose Tackle, we need a center who can hold his own.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2009 3:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep

thats all anyone should have to say. playing 3-4 in our division every game a Center is a must

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 2, 2009 3:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardy

He should be ready to go as ACL’s are usually 8 month ordeals now adays to gettinb back to 100%. But either way he can’t be counted on to contribute the 30-60 catches we need from a legit #2. I think it is prudent we bring in a veteran guy and then also get our pass-catching TE. If we do that I would feel a lot more comfortable.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 2, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even if Hardy is ready to go,

he look really bad most of the time, in fact, he actually seemed to get worse as the year went on. Dropped passes, looked slow, couldn’t get separation, poor route running, etc. Hardy has a long way to go.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2009 3:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

T.O. – double productions between rookie and second years
Steve Smith – 10 receptions in year 1, 50 in year 2, 78+ every full year since
Reggie Wayne – 27 reception in year 1, double in year 2
Plaxico Burress – first round draft pick, 22 catches year one as a starter!!!

These guys all improved dramatically between year one and year two.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2009 3:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

any of them get injured year 1?

And do you believe Hardy is as talented as any of them?

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 2, 2009 6:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No and Yes

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jan 3, 2009 12:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tough to get excited

I can not point to anything I saw Hardy do the entire season that leads me to belief he could ever improve enough to be a top receiver or a legitimate #2. He appeared to me to be clueless running routes – no sense when to beak it off, come back to the ball or prevent the defender from intercepting.
I’ll admit he made one nice catch on a fade for a TD but I think his greatest talent is that he is tall. I don’t think “tall” is going to work.

by jpheff on Jan 2, 2009 6:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a better timeframe than I was thinking

I was thinking QBs came back in 8-9 months but then they’re not exactly running and making cuts…

by Ron From NM on Jan 2, 2009 6:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marv, he is NOT going to be worth anything till Nov.

Yes you can rehad and be SOMEWHAT effective at the 8 month mark, but full ability is still a 12 month ordeal. Hardy will be PUPed to start TC, and by the 6th game he may get into practice. At 8 months, the vast majority of athletes are at about 80% of capacity as far as competing. Hardy will not contribute till end of season, IF we are lucky.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 2, 2009 7:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok don't kill me

I know we have so many important places to spend our money this offseason but I wonder if there is any interest among this fan base in spending some big bucks to bring in a play maker like Antonio Bryant or TJ Housh. Personally I don’t know if I would but its worth thinking about. If the Giants let Amani Toomer walk I would definitely want him on the Bills, we are sorely lacking in veteran leadership on offense and could use a smart dependable target like Toomer.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 3:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eesh. There’s only one receiver I’d be willing to break the bank on, and you didn’t even mention his name: Anquan Boldin.

Bryant and Houshmandzadeh are problem children who have kept their mouths shut because they were in contract seasons, and nothing more. Boldin just plays. Hard.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 2, 2009 4:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is Boldin a FA?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 7:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, yes he is. Unrestricted.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 2, 2009 10:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i guess the most natural follow up question

Can we afford him? Boldin hitting the market? Picking him up alone would probably add 2 wins to a season for any team. Watch the stinkin Cowboys, who can someone afford anything, grab him

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 11:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rotoworld has Boldin under contract through 2010

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2078

Does he have an opt out clause or something?

And I don’t view Housh as a problem guy. In fact, I can’t remember one thing he has ever done that would lead to me to think of him as a me first guy or someone who could have a bad influence on the team. Did I forget something?

by kaisertown on Jan 2, 2009 11:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh. Never been more wrong in my life. I guess since he’s been fighting for an extension for like two years now, I just figured his contract was running out. My bad, guys.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 3, 2009 8:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But....he REALLY wants out of Arizona.....

Trade maybe? But the would want waaaaaaayyyyy too much for him.

There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?

by MonStarr_716 on Jan 3, 2009 11:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Poz, agreed

We need a plan if Hardy is unable to go by Training Camp.

Antonio Bryant, Reggie Williams and Bryant Johnson would also be options as UFAs.

I also like Demetrius Williams as RFA from the Ravens- good size and speed – health has been an issue though.

by freddyjj on Jan 2, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bryant "Panda" Johnson???

Don’t think the Bills would sign him right now, even if Hardy was on teh shelf. He is looking out for himself with one year deals.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2009 4:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, thats all we need now anyhow is a 1 year deal

I expect Hardy to be out of it for most the year, we need a vet to come in and add to the O. Panda could do that.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 2, 2009 7:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Amani Toomer?

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Jan 7, 2009 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Josh Reed may be a poor man’s Wes Welker, but he’s better than Jabar Gaffney. If you think Gaffney would open up the passing game by freeing up Evans, you’re sorely mistaken. The Patriots don’t have anyone better to be their third receiver, but all accounts around Boston are that they don’t want him back because he’s too unreliable, and if he’s unreliable in a set with Welker and Randy Moss, he’s not going to be useful in Buffalo.

by rexob on Jan 2, 2009 4:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can’t fathom how people compare Reed to Welker. Reed is a chain-mover; Welker is a chain-mover that can get you big plays because he’s a far better athlete, far quicker, faster, and smarter. I like Reed, but Welker makes Randy Moss dominant. Clearly, the same can’t be said for the Reed/Evans relationship.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 2, 2009 4:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have compared them but only on the level you did; they create space and get first downs.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 2, 2009 5:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the Pats use him better. Welker is the master of the quick slant. we throw it to Reed. Just not nearly often enough. Welker is much faster.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Jan 2, 2009 5:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really?

I have to respectfully quasi disagree with you on this, Brian.
I think Reed and Welker are very similar – maybe Welker has more of a quick burst, but I’d like
to think that its more a matter of a superior Patriots scheme. Please share how you’ve quantified
that Welker is “smarter?”
As for him making Moss dominant, bunk. Moss is dominant when he feels like it. My mother could line up in the #2 slot. Moss is a loon, but he has physical gifts that Evans can’t match. When he is in the mood, I could lurch a ball in the air and Moss would catch it.
I specifically call into question your assertion that Reed is the receiver on the Bills that knows how to get open. I think this is quite true. So what is the matter with Evans? Why can’t he get open? Sure, he gets doubled a lot. So does Steve Smith, and Marvin Harrison in his prime – two receivers of similar stature that still found a way to get open.
In short, I think its the Bills scheme that isn’t working, rather than the qualities of the wide outs.
Why too, can’t the Bills manage to get Parrish a WR screen once or twice a game? Steve Johnson shows promise, as does Hardy, other than the ridicule heaped on him because he didn’t justify a bunch of draft geek projections.
Other than a legit TE, I’m very comfortable with the Bills WR corps heading into 2009.

by LeClaireBill on Jan 2, 2009 5:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As I said, he’s a poor man’s Welker — exactly the same type of player, but nowhere near as good.

by rexob on Jan 3, 2009 2:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And in any case, if Gaffney can’t put up decent numbers for a #3 receiver in New England, where he has Moss and Welker opening things up for him, how on earth is he going to be even a minimally competent #2 receiver in Buffalo?

by rexob on Jan 3, 2009 2:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Furrey

what about a guy like Mike Furrey from Detroit. He’s a legit #2, 98 catches 2 years ago, 61 in 10 games last year. he has injury problems so he could be cheap, but he’s proven that, when healthy, he really knows how to get open…

also we’ve been looking for a “token white receiver” since Don Beebe.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 5:06 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seriously?

Do you seriously think anyone at OBD cares at all about the race of any player?

by Ron From NM on Jan 2, 2009 6:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with Ron

You just grab talent, there is no conversation amongst the coaches that says, “We need our token white guy to find holes in the defense”
That would be dumb, although i see where your logic comes from, as alot of teams have a “token” white guy at either WR or TE making alot of plays…

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Jan 2, 2009 7:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was a joke I believe and a kind of funny one too

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 7:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah sorry for being unclear

I meant it as a joke. I of course don’t actually think it’s about race. Sorry for making anyone uncomfortable if they didnt realize that.

thanks for the backup poz.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 9:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

anytime

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 2, 2009 11:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

token

yes i’d rather have a “token white WR” than our token white DE’s…..not being racist here, but our hard-working DE’s are just that….no production and I’m sick of it!

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 2, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hard to say

BUT, I think a 2nd round tight end prospect, would be more intriguing then a WR taken again that high in the draft. I also think either of Johnson or Hardy can emerge as a number two, or number three threat.
I also think it IS realistic that of this year’s rookies could emerge next year. Hopefully Hardy’s injury heals up, but there might also be a problem with our reciever coach, and if Shanahan is gone in Denver, we may be wise to look at how they got Eddie Royal so in tune with the pro game, while i do realize Royal may just be more talented or gifted between the ears, I think Hardy has great potential, especially over the middle.

As a side note, I think we get scared as a team. For instance, Hardy caught a nice slant over the middle from an Edwards throw, then Edwards takes the injury in Arizona on that play. If Edwards doesn’t go down, Hardy may have had a good game, just the sort of game to build on for the season, and I also think Edwards has a great chacne of pulling out that game. I know, I know, its hard to say what could have happened, and more important to look at what did happen, but, I think due to injury, gameplans change, and DJ & Co start to call plays in fear of what the other teams will do, or in fear of what our young players “can’t” do. Which i think is BS

Anyway, i like our WRs right now and think we need to utilize them better and, I also think its time for an A+ TE to help out over the middle, although I think our WRs should be doing more crossing patterns all together.

I also think none of these players, or anyone on the Jauron Bills will have more than 80 or so catches and it would be more accurate to say they will all have between 40 – 60 in this offense

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Jan 2, 2009 7:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You’re dreaming about Buffalo pulling out the Arizona game. The defense just got shredded from the get-go. I do think you’re right about the team playing scared…but I think that comes from Jauron.

by Ron From NM on Jan 2, 2009 8:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know

So many factors go into the outcome of a football game, and I have seen this staff coach differently depending on what happens. The game dictates them, as oppose to vice versa…but hey, isn’t this about WRs?

The Bills CAN win every game

by killascript on Jan 2, 2009 9:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardy

The initial report I heard was that he may have injured more than an ACL. Since everything is so secretive these days, we really do not know the extent of his injury. SO hard to predict his recovery time frame. He is a very tall for a WR and they do take longer to develop. I did, however, see him mostly misused after his beautiful TD catch vs Jax. Our esteemed coaching staff seems to have that down to a science. Fine is great one week receiving and then disappears. Jackson looks good one week and then disappears. We run the ball well to the outside one week and then – fugettaboutit. When Hardy ran a slant he did well. When he was told to run a fade down the sidelines to the corner, eh. We misuse Evans in the red zone too. But – I have lowered my expectations and I do not expect our coaching staff to learn much from their errors. The ONLY way we do well next year is to feature a running game first. Big time. And use the slant pass as our primary pass route. With our schedule, rotsa ruck.

everything goes better with a BIG MACK

by keuka121 on Jan 2, 2009 7:11 PM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Reed a good #2

I think reed is a good number two, the problem is Lee is not a true #1. Don’t get me wrong I like Evans a lot, but he is not what most would call a true number 1 wr.

by billsfan69 on Jan 2, 2009 9:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he is definitely different.

he’s not a 8-9 catches a game guy, he’s a 4 catches 80 yds guy. It’s definitely different, and I think I’d prefer if he was a bigger, Roy Williams or TO type. But he’s certainly the best WR on the team. I think bringing in a good big receiver (wish it could be hardy) would do wonders for Evans. not that that’s news or anything.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 9:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not a fan of vet wideouts who don't start.

I don’t want a Jabar Gaffney.
If we need a backup, I’d say use the draft.

I’m actually all for giving our current WRs a shot. My biggest conern is Hardy’s health. If he won’t be healthy, then we need somebody else. If we have both Hardy and Johnson healthy, then I think that letting them develop will produce a starter (probably Johnson.) However, if we only have four healthy WRs, we need a fifth. If we don’t trust Johnson to be the number 2, then we have a problem. I don’t see what a Jabar Gaffney will do for us. We either need a #2 or we need to trust that our roster contains a #2. Bringing in a backup won’t help.

by Hopefulcynic on Jan 2, 2009 10:26 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we need a backup, I’d say use the draft.

I was under the impression that we were looking for a starter. Why can’t we sign a Gaffney to be our #2, letting Reed be our slot guy and mixing Johnson and Hardy in for specific packages and in shotgun sets? That seems like the best plan of attack to me…

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 2, 2009 10:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’d take Reed over Gaffney any day.
Gaffney simply isn’t a #2. If we want a #2, we should get an actual #2. Either put up or go home. If we can’t go for a real #2, we need to acknowledge that and go from there.

by Hopefulcynic on Jan 2, 2009 10:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but I said “A” Gaffney. I’m just using his name as an example. Bryant Johnson, etc… there are other options.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 3, 2009 8:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By saying “a gaffney” you implied a player like Gaffney. Those are backups. Do we want a #2 (in which case we need to pay one or invest a high draft pick) do we need a backup, or do we go with what we have?

by Hopefulcynic on Jan 3, 2009 1:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Call them a 2.5 if you want to. I think a 2.5 and Reed, Johnson, Parrish and Hardy would make life infinitely easier for Evans.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 3, 2009 2:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because Gaffney is a lousy #3 on a team with two top receivers. He’s not going to be a good #2 on a team with no one other teams have to plan for.

by rexob on Jan 3, 2009 2:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lee Evans is our Steve Smith

Remember eric moulds he would have Been a hall of famer if he had a qB . it doesn’t matter if we had jerry rice michael irvin and andre reed if we don’t have a good ofensive line to give them time to get open or a decent qB to get them to Ball . lee evans is Burning corners 4 no reason

Please the playoffs again in my life time

by EKali81 on Jan 2, 2009 10:39 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree with this statement,

but think of how much better Steve is with Muhsin Muhammad. We need to find our Muhsin Muhammad.

by JPH on Jan 2, 2009 11:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It all starts up front.

Its a huge cliche but it all is about our offensive line. At the start of the year when Trent had time he was able to throw the 15 plus yard passes which made the check downs to the RB effective. Teams were trying to play coverage and make Trent beat them which he and the WR’s were doing. Then the NFL releazied that our C and G’s are bad pass protectors and blew up the middle of the pocket and there was never any time for Trent or the recievers to get open deep, because of this the corners started to squat more and the checkdowns became very ineffective and frustrating. I know we all like to pick at our OT’s because that’s what everyone can see easily. But on more than a few of the sacks they gave up the OT’s were actually doing their job and blocking at the proper angle but Trent couldn’t step up and was getting forced out of the pocket into the speed rusher’s arms. DD and BB are as big a bust as our C’s. They are big and average at run blocking but hey are a huge liability in the passing game.
You also have to account for JP lossman playing in basically 4 games this year and another game in unpassable conditions (I was there it was bad). So if you look at the stats and production of our WR’s I think they are fine. I’m not sure why everyone hates Roscoe so much. He is an explosive WR with decent hands as well as an outstanding punt returner and just for that he is worth it.

by Honestabe75 on Jan 3, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You claim that both rookies didn't help

But only Hardy got the chances

He needs more help; Buffalo’s two rookies did little to take defenders away from Evans

Johnson was used so sparingly you certainly cannot blame him for not helping Evans! He really performed well every chance he got and actually deserved to get more chances. I think he will surprise many next season.

As for Gaffney, well I prefer a guy like Devery Henderson or even better, let the Bills make that splash that you were talking about and go get T.J. Houshmandzadeh

BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13

by keysh67 on Jan 3, 2009 1:30 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shoot me, but

I want Panda. That guy is still a good fit for what we’re in need of. A WR with size, red zone ability and able to contribute as a starter. He’s going to be cheap enough and I still think would be a good pickup. Hopefully, we’d give him the one or two year deal we wouldn’t last year….

~K

by Kurupt on Jan 3, 2009 1:33 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If anybody offered him anything close to what the Bills were offering him last year, he would be a complete idiot not to take it.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jan 3, 2009 9:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't he already prove himself

to be that idiot last year? I am not against getting Panda, but I would rather have T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 3, 2009 10:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We Need a Legit #2 WR

TJ, Panda, Antonio Bryant are the obvious choices but age, character and in Panda’s case, prior dealings may result in OBD not pursuing them.

Reggie Williams from JAX (who the Bills liked in 2004) is another guy who could fit if brought in on a shorter, incentive laden deal.

I like Demetrius Williams from BAL who will likely not get a big tender as an RFA given the Ravens need to reup Lewis, Suggs, Brown and Scott. 70% of catches for 1st downs, 15 ypc average. Was hampered the last 2 years with an Achilles/Ankle issue and shut it down and underwent surgery 1/2 way through 2008 to repair ankle. Could be a Jimmy Smith or Keenan McArdle who both kicked around a little before getting a shot to play every down and then had stellar careers.

Here’s hoping the Bills take a look at UB’s Ernest Jackson WR (from Rochester) as a developmental player

by freddyjj on Jan 3, 2009 11:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love Demetrius Williams as a player, but it won’t matter if he gets the lowest possible tender. Since he was drafted in the 4th round, the Bills would have to give their fourth rounder to Baltimore as compensation.

I really like Ernest Jackson too and I would be he gets drafted. I wouldn’t be shocked if he went as early as the 5th round. He probably won’t go anywhere near that high, but I would love if the Bills took him late. He has a great size/speed combo. If Naaman Roosevelt goes undrafted, I would hope the Bills give him a look too. It would be awesome if Buffalo spent a 7th round pick on a UB reciever.

by kaisertown on Jan 3, 2009 11:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What’s with these UB guys and the desire to draft them? Against UConn they look overmatched and are lucky to have gotten so many turnovers so far. The QB looks like your typical MAC guy, so I’m not sure why so many want him drafted in the later rounds….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 3, 2009 2:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not all that high on Wily who I think might be drafted, but hearing people talk about him as a mid round pick is kinda funny. He is a legit 6-7th round option that will, at the very least, get a training camp invite as a UFA.

I really like Jackson’s size speed combo and would be surprised if he went undrafted. I don’t think I’m going overboard on UB players, but I can see where there are a ton of people who are.

by kaisertown on Jan 3, 2009 5:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly.......

if you’re looking to draft a young QB…..atleast do it from a BCS conference team….

Imma be pimping Mike Teel for the 6th round till I croak.

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 3, 2009 10:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teel’s alright for a late round pick….He never really impressed me all that much, especially with 2 awesome receivers.

What I wouldn’t give to have an extra 2nd round pick to use on Kenny Britt this year. He’s a million times better looking as a prospect than Hardy was, at least to me..

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 4, 2009 2:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kaisertown

Thanks for info on Demetrius Williams and implications of signing. My belief is that compensation is tied to amount Ravens tender him at, but I must be wrong.

btw Ernest Jackson is done at UB but Roosevelt has 1 more year.

by freddyjj on Jan 3, 2009 4:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The compensation is tied to the tender, but the lowest tender you can offer is about 1 mil in salary and the team that signs him has to give up a pick in the round in which they were originally drafted. There is a reason there are so few RFAs that change teams each season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_free_agent

Is Roosevelt only a junior? Awesome news for UB!

by kaisertown on Jan 3, 2009 5:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As would I

T.J. Houshmandzadeh will cost a lot more than Panda.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jan 3, 2009 1:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the Bills to really improve to a Super Bowl contender level they need better WRs (Tennessee is an exception). The problem here is the Bills have some major needs to address this offseason, aren’t in position to compete next year and already have 5 WRs under contract. I think the improvements Buffalo needs can come from within the roster and I woulnd’t mind one bit if Buffalo decides to stick with the 5 guys they have and let a late round pick or a couple undrafted guys compete with Justin Jenkins for a potential 6th WR role.

I think we can do fine with Evans as our number 1 guy (even though I am well documented on this site as a guy who does not think he is a top 10 WR in this league and I don’t think he really seperates himself from that second group of really good WRs either). Reed as a number two with Johnson seeing a lot of snaps there depending on the situation isn’t the most desirable #2, but I think it is solid fit for Trent and allows Johnson and even Hardy chances to get in the game and develop that they normally wouldn’t see with a deeper group of WRs in front of them. Hardy and Johnson are the future of the position (obviously Evans too) and they need to improve for this team to get significantly better.

Amani Toomer might be the exception if he doesn’t re-up in NY. He will be 35 next season, but still has something left to offer and with a similiar body type and playing style to Johnson he could be the ideal mentor for a young group of WRs. I wouldn’t mind overpaying for him one bit. He is 6’3 and the Giants used to throw to him in the red zone all the time before they got an even better threat in Plax. How good would Evans and Toomer look on the outside with Johnson in the slot inside the 15 yard line? I could even see a situation where there is an obvious pass situation inside the ten yard line and Toomer and Hardy are lined up outside with Johnson and Evans inside. That could be a big part of what this team needs to score points in the red zone.

I wouldn’t mind a move for Jabar Gaffney, but I don’t know if he is that much better of a red zone threat than some of the guys already on the roster. He is only 6’1 and I think he will demand much more money than he deserves. He isn’t a number 2 type of guy who could displace Reed and I think that is a necessity for any non-Toomer FA acquisition because the last thing this team needs is a WR to come in, make over a million dollars, not start and most importantly push Johnson and Hardy down the depth chart.

Malcolm Floyd would be a VERY interesting option if San Diego is somehow stupid enough to give him the lowest tender. That almost seemed too unlikely for me to even waste 10 seconds typing up though.

by kaisertown on Jan 3, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Toomer

would do wonders in terms of leadership and mentorship for this young team and for not only the receivers kaiser but also for Trent Edwards. FUMBLE! nice strip! anyway, Toomer would help out our QB just as much as the WRs

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 3, 2009 1:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have always been a big fan of Toomer also. Man, THAT would be a nice FA pickup for the Bills.

by thefourwinds on Jan 3, 2009 2:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i wonder if the G-Men let him retire a Giant or if he chooses to retire as one if they don’t want to retain him. If he does hit the market I would ecstatic with that pick up

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 3, 2009 2:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hard to say with Plax now being possibly let go

The Giants may decide to keep Toomer for another season. Of course if the Giants 2nd round pick the Saints becomes a Rd 1 pick this season, they may trade their later 1st rounder to the Cards for Boldin. Or if TO is let go in Dallas, they may persue him on a 2 year contract. Alot will depend on what they decide to do at the WR position this offseason. ANY WR worth their salt would love to go the NJ and play for the Giants before any other team.

Once whatever the Giants choose to do will then filter down to the other teams and will decide the market from there.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 3, 2009 7:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Absolutely, good call.

by kaisertown on Jan 3, 2009 5:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

19 Steve Breaston ARI WR 77 1,006 13.1 62.9 58 3 TD
28 Lee Evans BUF WR 63 1,017 16.1 63.6 87T 3 TD
36 Josh Reed BUF WR 56 597 10.7 45.9 24 1 TD

Give me a break. The Bills receiver’s are “very average” at best. Except for Evans, but he is double teamed the whole team. Reed is an okay slot receiver, but is not a Wesley Welker by no means. Bills need to address this in the draft as well. Look at Steve Breaston of the Cardinals statistics, and he was “3rd” in receiving with the Cardinals.

Bills fans need to start watching other football teams besides the Bills – Good one’s!!!!!!

by BuffaloWhiner on Jan 5, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well the Cardinals also attempted 151 more passes than Buffalo did and have a much better QB than we do.

by kaisertown on Jan 5, 2009 6:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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