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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Senior Bowl notes (Includes Day 2 and Day 3 updates)

I've noticed no talk about the Senior Bowl this week.  Here are some interesting notes from Day 1 for guys that we've discussed that I have found around the net:

From tfydraft.com

North notes:

Tony Fiammetta FB Syracuse 5117 246 9 3/8 30 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes: A big imposing fullback, this Syracuse product lived up to his billing by finishing blocks strong throughout the day and really buried one defensive end during team scrimmage.

 

Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State 6052 257 10 1/2 34 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: In the individuals drills, Pettigrew looked very very good. Smooth in his routes, runs very well, and catches the ball with his big mitts. Then he disappeared some after going to team scrimmage. His biggest downfall of the day was not knowing where to lineup. On three separate occasions, coaches had to move him to the right spot in the formation.

Sorry Eric:

Conner Barwin TE Cincinnati 6033 253 9 7/8 33
 
Monday Practice Notes: The former tight end is once again a tight end this week in Mobile. It was readily apparent he was not completely comfortable reverting back to his old role. He worked very hard as a blocker, but struggled in his overall recognition of the defense, and was not much of a receiving threat on the day.

Hmmmmmmmmm:

Alex Mack OL California 6041 312 10 5/8 33 1/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: At center with the first unit, but then moved around some to guard as well. The pivot showed nice kneed bend and a good pass set often moving well throughout the day. An area of concern was his inability to finish blocks on this day.

 

Max Unger OL Oregon 6046 299 9 3/8 32 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes: There was some questioning as to whether Unger would see time at tackle this week. Today, he did not. Started out with the first unit as its left guard, then moved back to center at times as well. Showed great feet, but really struggled with his hand play. The bigger defensive lineman were able to shoot their hands much more quickly than Unger ever did; giving them the advantage most of the day.

 

Cody Brown DL Connecticut 6021 242 10 33 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Even at his smallish stature, Brown was able to take on the run quite well. He was quick off the snap, shot gaps, took on much bigger blockers, and was a headache for some of the offensive tackles.

 

Will Davis DL Illinois 6023 262 9 3/4 31 5/8
 
Monday Practice Notes: It quickly became obvious Davis is a good athlete off the edge, but the impressive part of his day was seeing the multiple pass rush moves in his repertoire. Plus the ability to be completely cognizant of his levels as he rushes the quarterback was apparent.

 

Larry English DL Northern Illinois 6021 254 9 3/4 32 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes: Clearly the most fluid pass rusher of this bunch during this practice. He was very quick off the snap, dipped the shoulder and turned the corner, as well as using his hands well. Though, English appeared to be a liability at times against the run.

 

Ron Brace DL Boston College 6030 329 9 5/8 33 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Looked big and powerful throughout the day but did struggle when forced laterally, losing his balance on a few occasions. Also his pass rush in today’s drills was nonexistent.

 

Evander Hood DL Missouri 6031 298 9 7/8 33 1/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: A tough blocking assignment for most offensive lineman throughout the day, Hood is very quick off the snap for an interior defensive lineman. He was able to shoot gaps and disrupt the running attack on multiple occasions.

 

B.J. Raji DL Boston College 6015 334 10 1/4 31 1/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Best player on the field in the North’s first session. Raji was unblockable at times. Even when he was blocked, he often drove the opposing lineman two or three yards deep to disrupt the offense. His combination of quickness at 334 pounds, as well as top notch technique to get off blocks made him one of the few players on the day to actually live up to their potential.

 

Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State 6005 235 9 1/8 30 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Looked very athletic and did a nice job roaming sideline to sideline. On one particular play, he was able to hold contain against a much bigger blocking tight end and make the play on the running back.

 

SOUTH NOTES:

Cullen Harper QB Clemson 6026 227 9 1/2 30 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes: Best quarterback of the day on the South.  Accurate, passes had good zip and also threw with touch.  Hit Patrick Turner on a nice long completion.  Made good decisions in the face of pressure.

 

Quinn Johnson FB LSU 6006 251 10 1/4 32 1/4
 
Monday Practice Notes:  Big powerful lead blocker who threw some major hits today.  Really lays his shoulders into defenders and works hard.

 

Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 6046 238 10 1/8 34 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes:  In a word- wow.  Tremendous athlete who played with great speed.   Easily and effortlessly got down the field into the secondary and made positive plays.  Was open most of the afternoon yet did not have many passes thrown in his direction.  Constantly got separation into the secndary.

Caldwell is a little bigger than I thought.  I thought he was in the 285-290 range.  If his weight is around 310 and he is strong and stout enough, he can be added to our current list of 3 draftable early round Centers....

Antoine Caldwell OL Alabama 6033 307 10 3/8 33 3/5
 
Monday Practice Notes: Had a very solid day overall.  Preformed equally well with both run blocking and pass protection.  Physical and never had to be told what to do.

Or maybe he'll just replace Luigs on that list:

Jonathan Luigs OL Arkansas 6033 302 9 1/4 31 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: He had a very poor practice, struggling in both run blocking and pass protection, appearing weak at times.  He had to be coached up on his footwork.

 

Eric Wood OL Louisville 6041 304 10 1/8 33
 
Monday Practice Notes:  Solid day overall.  Held his own for most of the practice, especially with run blocking.  Good quickness and footwork.  He shows a good motor and isn't afraid to mix it up.

 

David Veikune DL Hawaii 6022 255 10 1/4 32 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Showed very good speed and quickness with good lateral pursuit, but had trouble shedding blocks when he got locked up.

 

Robert Ayers DL Tennessee 6031 273 9 7/8 32 1/2
 
Monday Practice Notes: Showed good quickness, and a good first step, but had issues with his balance and footwork.  Showed some good moves in pass rush drills.

????:

Fili Moala DL USC 6042 303 10 33 3.4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Showed good quickness and used his hands well in getting off blocks, was complimented on his hips and pass rush abilities by a Jacksonville Jags staff member. 

 

Rey Maualuga LB USC 6017 254 10 31 5/8
 
Monday Practice Notes: Looked like a guy who hasn't played football in a while.  Looked out of shape this morning then mentally slow in practice.  Pulled it together late, which was a promising sign.

 

Brian Cushing LB USC 6031 243 9 7/8 31 3/4
 
Monday Practice Notes: Solid but not spectacular day.  Showed a lot of strength in the box but at the same time struggled in coverage and was beaten by Anthony Hill badly.

 

Clay Matthews LB USC 6030 246 9 3/8 32
 
Monday Practice Notes: Matthews strictly played linebacker today and did a good job.  He's very aggressive and physical against the run or in pass coverage.  He had a solid day overall and did a good job in all aspects.

 

 

FROM DRAFTCOUNTDOWN.com

NORTH NOTES:

• The headliner of the day might have been Missouri DT Evander "Ziggy" Hood, who showcased his trademark hustle and tenacity. Hood's motor seemed to run non-stop and he was able to consistently make plays in one-on-one drills, dipping and getting past Alex Mack on more than one occasion.

  • Boston College DT B.J. Raji had a good day, showing why he is one of the best defensive tackles in this draft. If not the best. Raji was singled out on quite a few coaching points but it was more a case of working with him than a negative thing. Raji was also noticeable quicker than his teammate Ron Brace, even though they are about the same size. Brace looked slow and lethargic.

   • Oklahoma St. TE Brandon Pettigrew really looks the part. I didn't get to see Pettigrew work as a pass catcher much today but as a blocker he was able to extend his arms and easily drive a linebacker out of the player.

  • Northern Illinois DE Larry English was more physically impressive than I anticipated and he drew praise from coaches for his technique.

 • I was pleasantly surprised with Iowa DT Mitch King, who always seemed to be around the action and drew a lot of praise from the coaching staff. Alex Mack was able to hold him in check for the most part though.

   • South Florida OLB Tyrone McKenzie looked real good on one play, reading the play quickly and attacking the ball carrier but then missed the tackle behind the line of scrimmage. I didn't see much of him but I liked what I saw.

   • The most impressive running back today was Oregon's Jeremiah Johnson, who looked noticeably quicker than his counterparts.

SOUTH NOTES:

  • Southern Miss TE Shawn Nelson was a natural receiver, the most reliable of the South TE today in that aspect of the game. Nelson shows burst, crisp route running and separates from the coverage, without dropping any balls. Interesting side-note, former Carolina Panthers TE Kris Mangum (now a Southern Mississippi assistant coach) was in attendance, and it's apparent he's been sharing the tips of the trade with Nelson.

   • The Pit battle of the day was between Ole Miss OT Michael Oher and Tennessee DE Robert Ayers. This was a back-and-forth bout, with early rounds going to Ayers and his quick first step. Ayers is a tough, feisty and competitive player, aggressive, showing good hands and a nose for the quarterback. After reps, Ayers would holler and clap, getting emotional and loud.

   • Louisville OC Eric Wood played guard and center, was excellent in pulling, and impressed on lookers with his toughness, grit and coachability. He's a smart technician who has real potential to start in the league. However, Wood was overwhelmed at the point of attack several times, and could stand to improve his core strength.

 • Southern California LB Clay Matthews shows signs of being a true football player and takes every opportunity to stick his face in the fan. He worked only at 'backer today and did a better than expected job in coverage.

Finally, although it's tough to judge in shells, LSU FB Quinn Johnson could be this year's LeRon McClain. Give Johnson the ball, he powers through the line and just doesn't go to ground easily.

 

WalterFootball.com Senior Bowl blog

 

Todd McShay notes, ESPN:

-Georgia Tech DE Michael Johnson was a late scratch and there are mixed opinions about the reason he is not in Mobile. Some are saying he's letting a minor but lingering shoulder injury rest. Others theorize he simply isn't motivated to deal with what tends to be a mentally and physically grueling week NFL draft prospects. Either way, Johnson's no-show is being frowned upon by NFL decision-makers. Johnson has the skills of a top-10 player but he's frequently performed like a middle-round pick and some have questioned his commitment to the game, so scouts should planting red flags firmly next to his name.

NORTH:

• It's especially tough to evaluate linemen in a first-day practice in shorts and shoulder pads, but Boston College DT B.J. Raji is the clear front-runner to emerge as the top lineman from either side of the ball. Raji showed excellent lateral mobility and initial quickness during one-on-one pass rush drills today.

California's Alex Mack and Oregon's Max Unger are Scouts Inc.'s top two center prospects and are playing next to each other this week. Mack lines up left guard when Unger lines up under center and vice-versa. Both fared well at guard on Day 1 and showing that kind of versatility can only help their draft stock, but like Raji they will also give a more accurate read when they are in full pads.

SOUTH:

• Of the three USC linebackers on the South roster, it was OLB Clay Matthews who stood out. Matthews put his overall athleticism on display in the shoulder-pads-and-shorts session. The 246-pounder linebacker displayed quick change-of-direction and the ability to run in open space that gives him sideline-to-sideline range. Matthews also displayed strength at the point of attack when he was able to shed Tennessee OT Anthony Parker and fill the hole during the inside run period.

• Right behind Matthews' performance today was that of former college teammate OLB Brian Cushing, who looked right at home lining up over the tight end. Cushing was strong at the point of attack and was able to hold down the edge against the run, but it was his ability in coverage that really caught the eyes of scouts.

• The tight ends had a chance to show off their receiving skills with the teams practicing in shells and Southern Miss TE Shawn Nelson took full advantage. Nelson was by far the most athletic and fluid of the South tight ends, displaying the ability to stretch the field with his top-end speed and creating separation in and out of his breaks. He also was able to use his long arms and soft hands to pluck the ball out of the air without breaking stride. Nelson is off to a solid start this week after impressing scouts on the field and also checking in at a lean 238 pounds, which means he should be able to add bulk without losing his quickness.

 

Todd McShay's Senior Bowl Storylines

******************************************************************************************

[Note by Kurupt, 01/20/09 11:28 PM EST ] Updated notes for Day 2

DAY 2 UPDATE:

From tfydraft.com

North Day 2 notes:

Tony Fiammetta: Tuesday Practice Notes: Strong looking fullback who seems to thrive as a lead blocker.

Brandon Pettigrew: Tuesday Practice Notes: Had a very good practice.  Showed good agility for his size, blocked well, and looked shape in scrimmage work.

Conner Barwin: Tuesday Practice Notes: Inconsistent overall with his blocking.  He would handle his man on one play and draw praise from his position coach, then get beat and have to be coached up soon thereafter. 

Alex Mack: Tuesday Practice Notes:  This pivot continues to not practice at his level of talent would indicate. He continued to be overpowered by the big North defensive tackles. Mack struggled when asked to move and block laterally. He was able to get downfield and makes a few nice blocks.

Max Unger: Tuesday Practice Notes: Watching the former Duck, he has not played as well as some think. Certainly, Unger is very athletic and moves very well laterally and in space. But so much revolves around his inability to properly shoot his hands to get control of defenders. And it was apparent as this became a coaching point though out the practice. When Unger shoots the hands tight and inside the body, he is very good. But when he does not, he will be lifted up and put on his rear like defensive tackle BJ Raji did in today’s practice.

Larry English: Tuesday Practice Notes: An impressive day for the undersized defensive end. Blockers had a rough time keeping English out of the backfield.. Takes a perceived disadvantage, his size, and uses it to play with very good leverage by getting under all the offensive linemen’s pads. He worked hard down the line. All helped him have a much better day against the run. He really used a nice speed rush today as well.

B.J. Raji: Tuesday Practice Notes: Not quite as dominant as the day before, but still very good. Again, Raji was getting up field and really disrupting the offense. He is just very powerful to try and block one on one. Though a couple areas that needed work today included not picking a side against the run as well as splitting double teams.


SOUTH DAY 2 NOTES:

Quinn Johnson: Tuesday Practice Notes:  A very dependable blocker.  Johnson gets good leverage and uses his lower body strength to drive his man out of the play.  He finishes his blocks with authority.

Shawn Nelson: Tuesday Practice Notes: Had a solid practice.  Blocked really well throughout the session.  He is a physical tight end, but can make plays in the passing game.  He ran good routes and showed off his athleticism with a diving catch in 7-on-7 work.

Antoine Caldwell: Tuesday Practice Notes: Best overall day of any lineman along the unit but nothing spectacular. Playing both guard and center this week, Caldwell really battled throughout the drills. He was very strong once he got his hands on a defender, but tends not to get extension. His best moments of the day were as a guard and asked to pull within the offensive scheme.

Johnathan Luigs: Tuesday Practice Notes: This former Rimington Trophy winner looked better today at guard than he did at center. Looked much quicker off the snap when not asked to snap the ball. Luigs still needed to sink his hips and play a little less stiff.

Eric Wood: Tuesday Practice Notes: Definitely a day where improvement will be needed afterwards. Particularly, Wood was coached up on a proper initial pass set. The pivot was firing out and whiffing on blocks, instead of sitting back in his set. His hand play was a little inconsistent as well.

David Veikune: Tuesday Practice Notes: Best day of the bunch. Started the practice by really being a hard assignment against the run. He read his keys and fought hard against pressure. His pass rush was impressive today, even making top rated left tackle Michael Oher look bad on an occasion or two. Plus he worked hard on every down, just a tenacious defender.

Lawrence Sidbury: Tuesday Practice Notes: Athletic off the edge, Sidbury showed the ability to dip his shoulder and bend the edge. Uses his long arms well to keep bigger lineman off his body. A perfect example was when the former Spider got under big Herman Johnson’s pads and drove him back into the quarterback in a pass rushing drill. When he did not shoot his hands quickly, he had trouble getting off the blocks.

Robert Ayers: Tuesday Practice Notes: Strong all around performance for this defensive end. Particularly, Ayers was very hard to move against the run. He planted himself and held up well against the likes of offensive tackles, Michael Oher and Troy Kropog. Also improved as the day went along in his pass rush.

Fili Moala: Tuesday Practice Notes: Once again proved proficient in using his hands well to swat those of his opponent. Played well throughout the day, both against the run and pass, but showed a tendency stand straight up off the snap and give up his chest.

Rey Maualuga: Tuesday Practice Notes: Very strong at the point of attack.  He is able to move guys, and shed blocks, easily when he gets leverage.  He looked stiff and flatfootted at times, but overall had a solid practice.

Brian Cushing: Tuesday Practice Notes: Not as physical as his USC counterparts on a consistent basis.  Appeared to shy away from contact at times, but did lay a thundering hit on Rashad Jennings during scrimmage work.  Overall, a very mediocre day however.

Clay Matthews: Tuesday Practice Notes: He showed very good recognition and good sideline to sideline range.  He is a physical player who likes to hit.  Looked comfortable with what was asked of him assignment wise, and had a good practice.

Chip Vaughn: Tuesday Practice Notes: The more you see Vaughn the more you like him.  He's not flashy or explosive just very steady in centerfield and does a great job constantly putting himself in a position to make plays or help out the cornerbacks.

DraftCountdown.com

NORTH DAY 2 NOTES:

• I just can't say enough about Oklahoma St. TE Brandon Pettigrew's blocking skills. He is simply awesome and makes it look easy. He didn't look to shabby as a pass catcher today either, evading a Tyrone McKenzie tackle and then showing great power as a runner. He is without question the #1 tight end in this draft.

• Boston College DT B.J. Raji continues to impress, simply overpowering blockers. An upfield rusher, Raji's strength and quickness off the ball really stand out.

• I don't know whether Cincinnati's Connor Barwin is going to be a defensive end or an outside linebacker in the NFL but I am fairly confident he isn't going to be a tight end. Barwin was smooth and quick, which is to be expected from someone with his athleticism, but he struggled mightily as a blocker. I mean mightily.

• Ohio St. OLB Marcus Freeman looked like the best linebacker on the field today. He appeared to be very athletic and displayed quick feet then was able to overpower running backs when they attempted to block him.

• I have maintained all along that Cal C Alex Mack is the #1 player at his position and a fringe first round value. So far this week he hasn't done anything to change my opinion. About the only guy who has been able to make any time of impact against Mack is B.J. Raji and that is nothing to be ashamed of.

• Oregon C Max Unger looked real good when he pulled on a sweep play, showing good mobility in getting the edge. He was also one of the few blockers to get the best of B.J. Raji, even putting him on the ground at one point.

• Oregon's Jeremiah Johnson is clearly the best running back on the North squad. Today he broke a nice long run on the outside and also used his vision to create in the open field. Johnson is also a good receiver out of the backfield.

SOUTH DAY 2 NOTES

TODD MCSHAY DAY 2 NORTH:

• On Monday, we said that Boston College DT B.J. Raji is the clear front-runner to emerge as the top prospect at lineman -- defensive or offensive -- in his class by the time we leave Mobile. After this morning's practice, we now feel that he is one of the top two or three prospects here regardless of position. Raji continues to showcase his rare blend of size, burst and agility, and he manhandled highly touted Oregon C Max Unger on more than one occasion. In fact, he got under Unger's pads, drove him back and then put him on his back on one snap during one-on-one pass-rushing drills.

• At this point, Raji's collegiate teammate DT Ron Brace is probably used to living in his shadow, but Brace's play hasn't gone unnoticed by the coaches and front-office personnel in attendance. Brace isn't as explosive or athletic as Raji and is a little too top-heavy at times, but he's doing a good job of holding his ground and flashing the ability to collapse the pocket. In other words, he played like a late second-round or early second-day pick today.

• Northern Illinois's Larry English is separating himself from another undersized defensive end/outside linebacker prospect -- Connecticut's Cody Brown -- and working his way into the first day of the draft. English is playing with more of an edge and showing better upper body than Brown as a run defender. He has also been a step quicker around the corner than Brown has been in rushing the passer.

• While Unger clearly had problems sinking his hips and anchoring in pass protection Tuesday despite weighing in at a respectable 299 pounds, Cal C Alex Mack fared better. Missouri DT Ziggy Hood did beat Mack with a spin move during one-on-one pass rush drills, but Mack did a better job of holding his ground. In addition, he looks to be a split-second quicker than Unger.

TODD MCSHAY DAY 2 SOUTH:

Biggest risers
1. Boston College DT B.J. Raji
2. Southern Miss TE Shawn Nelson
3. USC linebackers Rey Maualuga, Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews
4. Western Michigan S Louis Delmas
5. California C Alex Mack

• USC's Brian Cushing is the rare prospect who will fit in any defensive scheme in the NFL. He can play inside or outside in either a 3-4 or 4-3. Very few linebackers have that ability. Where he looked best, though, was over the tight end as a strongside linebacker in the 4-3. His body type, power and aggression lend well to doing battle with opposing tight ends. For a taller linebacker, he gets low and is not a leverage liability. He showed quick hips turning and running with the tight ends. The one area in which he didn't look quite as comfortable was in his read-and-react skills while working in zone coverage. But overall, Cushing's wide skill set drastically reduces his draft-bust factor. If anyone here is a great fit for New England, it's Cushing.

• Cushing's teammate at USC, Clay Matthews, continues to be extremely impressive. He bends very well and always seems to be in proper football position. His change of direction is abrupt yet smooth. As an edge rusher, he did not lose speed bending the corner and got his shoulder low to the ground, making him very difficult to block. His pad level is consistently exceptional and he is an excellent hit-on-the-rise player who makes contact with the same leg and shoulder when taking on blocks. Matthews is very fundamentally sound but also very athletic. He would be an immediate demon on special teams while learning the linebacker position at the NFL level. At this point, it won't surprise us if the USC trio of Cushing, Matthews and Rey Maualuga are all off the board in the first 40 picks.

• Southern Miss TE Shawn Nelson continues to turn heads. He isn't the biggest tight end and this type of forum plays very well to his skill set, but his tools are undeniable. He looks like a Dallas Clark-type prospect who can create a lot of schematic problems for an NFL defense if he ends up with a creative and innovative offensive coordinator at the next level. Nelson is a seam-stretching presence who is capable of plucking the ball outside his frame and presents a big target area for his quarterback. He covers a lot of ground and can run past linebackers in man coverage. More surprising, however, has been Nelson's effectiveness as a blocker -- particularly in pass pro. His lateral agility and ability to recover were on full display during the one-on-one drills. He also was able to drop his hips and handle the bull rush from the linebackers off the edge. Needless to say, Nelson is climbing up NFL draft boards this week.

• Centers Antoine Caldwell (Alabama) and Jonathan Luigs (Arkansas) are faring better than the players mentioned above. Caldwell is a grinder with a chip on his shoulder and Luigs moves well for his size. However, both have shown noteworthy flaws as well. Caldwell plays far too high at times and Luigs has problems countering power moves. In fact, the more we watch Caldwell, Luigs, Oregon's Max Unger and Cal's Alex Mack, the clearer it becomes that Mack is the best center prospect here.

• There have been moments when USC DE Kyle Moore and DT Fili Moala have looked unstoppable during one-on-one pass rush drills, but don't be fooled by these classic teasers. Moore is built well and is athletic while Moala has above-average initial quickness for his size, but both get lazy with their technique and lack ideal instincts. In addition, Moala wants no part of double-teams. So while they looked like first-round picks at times during pass rush drills, they were far less effective during the team portions of practice.


******************************************************************************************

DAY 3 UPDATES

From tfydraft.com:

NORTH DAY 3 NOTES:

Tony Fiametta: Wednesday Practice Notes: Proved today that he could provide equally good pass protection to go along with his run blocking.  A very solid all-around fullback who has had a good week of practice.


Jeremiah Johnson: Wednesday Practice Notes: Blocked extremely well in pass rush drills against the linebackers.  Showed good open field speed as a ball carrier, and picked up some nice yards showing a sharp cutback, even when the play wasn't developing.

Brandon Pettigrew: Wednesday Practice Notes: Blocked very well in both position drills and scrimmage work.  He seals the corner very well on strong-side runs, neutralizing the defensive end.  Overall, it was another impressive practice and solidified his status as the best tight end on the field for the north squad this week.

Conner Barwin: Wednesday Practice Notes: Had to be coached up some on his route running and his timing on releasing his blocks.  He looks to be more of a polished run blocker than pass blocker at this point.  He was not given many opportunities to make plays in the passing game./Moved back to the defensive line after starting the week at tight end. Barwin looked like he was transitioning mid week really struggling to hold the point of attack against the run and consistently getting off blocks in his pass rush. There were some flashes of ability to rush the passer by being able to dip the shoulder and get underneath tackles.

Alex Mack: Wednesday Practice Notes: Mack asked to play to guard this week when he initially excepted his invitation, and he has gotten more comfortable at the position as the days have passed. Another prospect who has been asked to work on his hand play and gradually he has improved. The pivot mirrored well in his pass set but at times can be overwhelmed by bigger defensive linemen.

Max Unger: Wednesday Practice Notes: Another prospect slowly becoming more comfortable at guard. Having never played guard it has been a transition for the center prospect. Also never playing from a three point stance, Unger has struggled slightly earlier in the week. Today was much better. He improved his hands by added a flash punch to his technique. It is an automatic punch thrown directly off the snap to keep the hands high and in place, or to improve quickness if slow initially. Also looks very good when asked to move in space or laterally. His ability to hook an opponent has been impressive.

Larry English: Wednesday Practice Notes: Once again strong all around day. His pass rush continues to be very impressive.

Ron Brace: Wednesday Practice Notes: Two bad habits have presented themselves over the past few days. Brace struggles to keep full concentration in drills and continues to jump offsides repeatedly and has trouble keeping his balance. The big defensive tackle was found on the ground two or three times, just like the previous practices. When on his game, this large interior defender was eating up double teams, became very hard to move, and can reestablish the line of scrimmage.

B.J. Raji: Wednesday Practice Notes: A presence each time the overstuffed interior lineman is on the field. Again Raji fired off the ball very quickly and reestablished the line of scrimmage. He countered all his pass rush moves well. His only area which looked to need improvement on the day would be quicker recognition of pressure placed by his blockers on some running plays.

Marcus Freeman: Wednesday Practice Notes: Looked very good in linebacker drills, drawing praise from his position coach on several occasions.  He was all over the field during the scrimmage work and made a terrific play on a bobbled pass for an interception.  Overall, he had an excellent practice.

DAY 3 SOUTH NOTES:

Quinn Johnson: Wednesday Practice Notes: Jackson continued to impress with his lead blocking.  On one occasion he planted Rey Maualuga in the turf while paving the way on an off tackle run.  He neutralized his man consistently in 1-on-1 pass blocking drills with the linebackers.  Also showed good hands and made plays as a safety valve receiver out of the backfield.  Overall, another impressive practice for the LSU fullback.

Shawn Nelson: Wednesday Practice Notes: Nelson did not have a very good day catching the football.   He did an excellent job of getting separation and giving the quarterback a target, but had trouble reeling many of them in for receptions.

Antoine Caldwell: Wednesday Practice Notes: Started out strong, but as the day wore on his play lessened. Caldwell appeared to be very tough to beat in a limited area. He was tenacious at the point of attack and really battled opponents. His run blocking was solid all around but his struggles came predominantly in his pass set where he was corrected by coaches for giving up the inside rush and playing with too wide a base.

Johnathan Luigs: Wednesday Practice Notes: Again looked better at guard than center. Luigs was moving well down the line zone blocking and out in space at times. The interior lineman did have troubles in pass protection needed to keep his hands inside, sinking his hips, widening out defenders, and not initially oversetting.

Eric Wood: Wednesday Practice Notes: Looked a little quicker off his snap in this practice. Wood had some troubles when asked to move in space. He also struggled reestablishing his hands after defenders swatted them. The center did get a little extra work when he was not participating in the drills by trying to time his punch more effectively with his footwork.

Clay Matthews: Wednesday Practice Notes: Saw a few repetitions in pass rushing drills where he was able to get a nice bulrush on former Rebel Michael Oher. Fought off blocks well against the run and also in pass rush drills.  Appears to enjoy contact and can be very disruptive to ball carriers if not blocked well.

DRAFTCOUNTDOWN.COM NOTES

DAY 3 NORTH NOTES:

• Cincinnati's Connor Barwin finally got his opportunity to play some defensive end today and he looked much better there than he did at tight end. Barwin really gets upfield fast and he displayed the quickness and explosion that helped him lead the Big East in sacks this year. Back at tight end the results were once again very lackluster and he looks out of position there. Let this man rush the passer!


• Northern Illinois DE Larry English had a very good day, flashing on a number of occasions and appearing to have a good motor. Early on English looked real impressive in bag drills then later he showcased a nice inside move and even recorded a sack in 11-on-11's. English is solidifying himself as a Day One pick.

• Oregon's Max Unger saw action at both center and guard today. He once again showcased his mobility and also got a good push in the run game.

• Ohio St. OLB Marcus Freeman had another strong performance, making a play in the backfield then later intercepting a pass that Kory Sheets bobbled.

• Boston College DT Ron Brace did an excellent job of holding his ground against the double-team but Alex Mack flattened him on the ground later on.

• Oklahoma St. TE Brandon Pettigrew once again did a fantastic job in the blocking drills but he looked stiff as a receiver.

TODD MCSHAY'S DAY 3 NORTH NOTES:

• Northern Illinois OLB/DE Larry English continues to make a case for himself as one of the premier pass-rushers of the senior crop. English turned in another strong performance during one-on-ones, showcasing a variety of pass-rush moves. He displays the ability to bend when coming off the edge, which makes it extremely hard for tackles to get their hands on and control him. He also has lined up at defensive tackle at times, using his explosive first step to disrupt a play in the backfield on one snap and surprisingly driving Oregon C Max Unger back into the pocket on the next play. That's not all, either. Texas DE Brian Orakpo skipped Senior Bowl week, and English has seized the opportunity to step into the spotlight and is making a name for himself.

• One of the stories we were interested in heading into Senior Bowl week was the duel between two highly touted centers from the Pac-10: California's Alex Mack and Oregon's Max Unger. Mack was able to create some separation from Unger in the first two days and continued to distance himself on Day 3. Mack was beaten a few times by Raji during the team period, but Raji has not been slowed down much at all this week and Mack returned the favor in one-on-one drills, doing a nice job of dropping his hips and anchoring against 334-pound Raji. Mack also continued to do a great job of sliding and mirroring rushers while displaying the ability to redirect when caught out of position. Mack is the clear-cut leader among centers from both rosters.

MCSHAY'S DAY 3 SOUTH NOTES:

Southern Miss TE Shawn Nelson continued to shine with two exceptions. He dropped what would have been an acrobatic catch after running a deep seam route, and he failed to get under a ball thrown at his shoe tops. We are obviously nitpicking, but now that the buzz around him is building, every move he makes is going to be put under a stronger microscope.

Nothing has changed when it comes to USC's talented linebackers. OLB Brian Cushing is flying around the field; Maualuga is showing above-average closing speed for his size; and OLB Clay Matthews always seem to be around the ball. All three prospects belong in the top 40, and some of the NFL personnel people we talked to Wednesday said they won't be surprised if all three come off the board in the first round.

• Alabama C Antoine Caldwell continues to turn in stellar showings. He did a much better job on Day 3 of staying low and playing with a wide base. This was apparent in one-on-one pass pro as Caldwell was able to get sound initial hand placement on Georgia Tech DT Vance Walker, then did a nice job of sinking his hips for leverage while mirroring and sliding to stay in front of Walker's counter moves.

• Although Caldwell showed a big improvement from Day 2, the same can't be said for Arkansas C Jonathan Luigs, who continued to struggle in pass pro against the bigger and more powerful defensive tackles such as Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry. These problems are caused by Luigs' playing with a narrow base in his sets, which causes him to get off balance against any bull-rush or club move. Adding to his problems, Luigs did not show the ability to recover when knocked off balance and was beaten multiple times throughout the afternoon.

Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.

Comment 153 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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Side note....
The only guy who was able to handle Raji was Cal center Alex Mack, who was easily the best offensive linemen on the North squad and who was considerably better than Oregon’s Max Unger, whom many publications have rated higher than Mack. Mack got the better of Raji during team drills, at one point standing him up and driving him backward.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/018719.html

There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?

by MonStarr_716 on Jan 20, 2009 1:56 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

No worries....

I’m on the Mack bandwagon as many here are. That stood out to me as I thought about our struggles vs. a 3-4 D NT with our current C situation.

Grab him at #11? Ehhh…..

Trade down? Now we’re talking……

There is only one NFL football team that plays in New York state...and Canada?

by MonStarr_716 on Jan 20, 2009 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not worried about the "not finishing his block" note.

In every highlight that I’ve seen the only way that you could say he doesn’t finish his block is because he continues it into the next play.

by twoeightnine on Jan 20, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Shawn Nelson

Been touting this guy as a late 1st day pick at TE.
Nothing beats 4 years of production.

to reiterate notes form above:

Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 6046 238 10 1/8 34 1/2
Big hands, huge wingspan will come in handy on a windy day at the Ralph!
  
Monday Practice Notes: In a word- wow. Tremendous athlete who played with great speed. Easily and effortlessly got down the field into the secondary and made positive plays. Was open most of the afternoon yet did not have many passes thrown in his direction. Constantly got separation into the secndary.

by freddyjj on Jan 20, 2009 8:16 AM EST reply actions  

Alex Mack & Quinn Johnson !

I am anxious to see these guys in action again.

Your ability to control the LOS is directly linked to your ability to win football games!
FEED the BEAST!
Section 336 Row 13

by keysh67 on Jan 20, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions  

Theres my pick BJ.......doing his thang.........

I also know that mitch king the DE from Iowa did fairly well…..but there was no mention of him on here……just something else that I read

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

Ew, stay away from Mitch King. He’s a ‘tweener end/tackle that’s too small to play tackle and too slow to play end. He’s got “Chris Kelsay” written all over him.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 20, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

then he's PERFECT for this team......

LOL

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

He's a DT

and I posted a blurb on him, how Mack handled him….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

well he couldnt have "handled" him all the time....because in this very post it states the following

Monday Practice Notes: Best player on the field in the North’s first session. Raji was unblockable at times. Even when he was blocked, he often drove the opposing lineman two or three yards deep to disrupt the offense. His combination of quickness at 334 pounds, as well as top notch technique to get off blocks made him one of the few players on the day to actually live up to their potential.

So either we got conflicting stories here…..or someone is wrong…..or (my theory) there were times when both fellas won the battle

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I was talking about Mitch King

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

oh......

sorry

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Raji

looks like a real viable option at #11 if he’s on the board

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 20, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d be willing to bet large sums of money, even this early in the game, that Raji won’t last past Mike Singletary and the 49ers at pick 10. He just makes too much sense there.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 20, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe I should just root for the niners then......

since they always take the guys I want for the Bills……lol

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet he won't last past the Packers at 9

They are moving to a 3-4 and desperately will need that big, old NT. BJ Raji is PERFECT for them…

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

GB is going to a 3-4?

by kaisertown on Jan 20, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they just hired Dom Capers as their defensive coordinator.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 20, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. Good for them, I always liked Capers.

I wonder how they will shape their defense for next year then. Will AJ Hawk be moved inside? Is Johnny Jolly good enough to play the nose? I bet Justin Harrell is a great fit as a 3-4 end. Maybe that won’t end up being a draft bust after all. The biggest question is what will they do with Aaron Kampman? Should be interesting to watch.

by kaisertown on Jan 20, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

My money is on Raji for them at NT

and Hawk goes in as one of their 2 ILBs along with Diggs most likely

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 20, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Julius Peppers would be a good fit there.

"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 22, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

damn fudge packers

12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.

by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 20, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, Mike would love to have a beast like that in front of Willis and his fellow LBs

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 20, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Quinn Johnson

He’s the fullback I want this year… the guy is a beast!

John I.

by jri111 on Jan 20, 2009 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

I like him, but Fiammetta would be a nice consolation prize

We may get him anyhow because Brandon will want the marketing tie-ins that come with taking the local college product that would be afforded in Syracuse by taking him.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 20, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt that. The Bills haven’t drafted a Syracuse guy since….Gary Anderson?

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

They also haven't played in Toronto since ever.

They’ve been know to draft or sign UB or local prospects just for that reason. With everything as it is it wouldn’t surprise me if they expand that to Syracuse sometime soon.

by twoeightnine on Jan 21, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

couple of things

I don’t think Raji makes it to us mostly because he is starting to sound more and more like a game-changing DT. Those don’t make it out of the top 10.

I always like Clay Matthews and this report only fuels my liking of him as our answer at LB. Unfortunately I have been hoping we could take him in the 3rd round but if he keeps getting rave reviews like the ones above he won’t make it out of the 2nd.

The questionable reviews of Unger and Luigs only make me more sure than ever that Mack should be our pick at #11.

Larry English I like and still think he would make a great 4th round pick for us, maybe a 3rd if his stock rises.

It is good to hear that Shawn Nelson is showing something, especially from a guy who is projected as a 4th-5th rounder

Would anyone really be upset if our draft turned out to be Alex Mack, Clay Matthews, Larry English, Shawn Nelson, Quinn Johnson with five out of 7 picks?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 20, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions  

IMO would love that draft
Hope we are smart enough for at leats half of that

by Parrish11rules on Jan 20, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Great work K

I am looking forward to the Senior Bowl more than the Super Bowl. I must be a Bills fan!!!

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 20, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

I'm updating with day 2 info right now!

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You can update posts???

Oh, and how many recs does it take to get a story in the recommended section? 7 isn’t enough?

by Ron From NM on Jan 20, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, option is at the bottom of the original post. Just click Edit.

I thought 5 or 6 recs, but guess not…

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 20, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

it would appear that only three fanposts can be in the rec’ed section at one time and as the ones in there have 9,9, and 13 it’ll be tough to crack. The problem with the rec’ed section is when one post gets rec’ed too much but then people stop writing on it, it prevents more recent and highly rec’ed posts from staying on the front page, like this one for example.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I've seen 4 up there before

I think

It’s ok, I can keep updating this and moving it back to the top if anyone has interest….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 21, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

As a last option, we could go back and un-rec some of the out dated posts?

And, updating this post is a great idea K. I can’t thing of anything more interesting for the next few months :-)

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 21, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

guess i was wrong

it looks like its up there now

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, there are some blogs whose FanPosts rarely show up because their rec’d section gets too big.

That happened here a few days ago because more folks are using the Rec feature. To make having a “rec’d” post even more exclusive, I increased the number of recs needed to make a FanPost appear in that section. That’s why you’ve seen it changing over the past couple of days.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Mock draft

This has been mymock draft and yes I’d prefer a trade down or up to get Alex Mack but either way I want him in a Bills uniform and feel he’d improve every skill position on this offense! The picks after the first picks are just secondary options in no specific order but just other players I like and do not expect us to get if our draft went the way I hope with our 1st options!
1st C-Alex Mack ! secondary options I do not expect to be there DE-Brian Orakpo or LB-Aaron Curry

2nd DT-Evander Hood or TE-Chase Coffman/TE-Jared Cook/QB-Josh Freeman

3rd DE-Larry English or DE-Paul Kruger/C-Eric Wood/DE-Connor Barwin

4th TE-Shawn Nelson or TE-James Casey/DL-Jarron Gilbert

5th DE-Will Davis or WR-Aaron Kelly

6th FB-Tony Fiametta or TE-Kory Sperry

7th MLB-Jasper Brinkley or TE-Darius Hill

Undrafted FA: WR-Greg Carr

I also like DE-Everette Brown but feel he would be a better fit in a 3-4 as OLB than with our current system and that’s why I do’nt have him as an option for us, plus I really like DE Will Davis who might be a bargain for us in the mid rounds.

Sign-OJ Atogwe,Jonathan Babineau,Jonathan Vilma. Other options-resign Crowell(doughtful) resign Greer and possibly trade Mcgee because if we resigned Greer we likely would let Mcgee walk after next season anyways and might as well get some value for him now!

by Fam_1st on Jan 21, 2009 1:19 AM EST reply actions  

Still with the Josh Freeman huh? Would you really want the Bills to draft a QB in the second round despite Trent having a pretty good year?

Babineaux signed an extension last fall.

Jasper Brinkley goes way before the 6th and 6’6’’ receivers like Carr probably go earlier than the 7th too. Otherwise it is a great mock.

by kaisertown on Jan 21, 2009 2:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Kurupt please tell me if you like other options and what you think? Thanks

by Fam_1st on Jan 21, 2009 1:21 AM EST reply actions  

Since you have posted this same mock in 3 posts, maybe you should just put it up in a fanpost of it’s own, like I did for mine.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Jan 21, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Freeman’s just a secondary option to consider. Thanks!

by Fam_1st on Jan 21, 2009 2:47 AM EST reply actions  

Shawn Nelson

From NFP.

The player of the day had to be Southern Mississippi TE Shawn Nelson. Nelson is a long, angular tight end prospect who looks like a thin tackle when he is asked to block. He displayed great feet and lateral mobility on the edge and had enough power to knock MLB Rey Maualuga off balance and drive him to the ground. During the passing phase of practice, Nelson was consistently able to separate down the field and create big plays by plucking balls away form his body. He has been even more impressive than Oklahoma State TE Brandon Pettigrew and with a strong week could be headed straight for the first round.

This guy may be the best overall TE in teh draft. I think he would be a great fit for a team picking late in the 1st round that already has talent. Probably won’t last till round 2 but if he did, man would he be nice. He has EXCEPTIONAL footwork and agility.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 21, 2009 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

this is good though

even if he doesn’t last to round 2 he could bump Pettigrew down for us.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I find

that these supposed “experts” seem to differ on the analysis of players, even on the same plays that they are seeing.

by gatornation on Jan 21, 2009 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

yeah

I hear yah. I think the Senior Bowl does sway a ton of coaches about the prospects they see there. There is something to be said to see how a kid practices and competes against other soon to be NFLer’s. Like Belichick says, some people can coach, some people can evaluate talent, some can do both. Im not sure what our coaches are good at it.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 21, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

The senior bowl

is the coaches best chance at seeing the players perform (practice and game) and how they approach both of them. I think it says something about the Pats when they have picked at least 2 players that played in the senior bowl each year since 2000.
I don’t know what the Bills coaches are good at. 3 years in and I still have no clue. hopefully it becomes much clearer this year.

by gatornation on Jan 21, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

can we stop putting the Pats on a pedestal

Tom Brady goes down for one year and they are back home for the playoffs just like us. What the Pats did that we didn’t was find the best QB in the league. Hopefully Trent continues to improve, the rest is pretty much even if you ask me.

Secondary: Bills are better
Running Backs: Bills are better
Linebackers: Even
D-Line: Pats are better
O-Line: Pats are better
Receivers: Pats are better

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

When you win 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, you don’t need lowly Bills fans to put you on a pedestal. You’re already there, asterisk or not.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't believe my comments

took anything away from the fact that they won 3 Super Bowls. I think it highlighted that they won three Super Bowls because of Tom Brady. Much the same way the Niners won theirs with Joe Montana and Steve Young, the Broncos got to five with John Elway, the Bills got to four with Jim Kelly, etc. etc.

I’m trying to highlight the fact that the Pats are believed to be this magically coached and organized team while teams like the Bills are doing everything wrong. I think QB’s have a lot more to do with the differences between teams than is accepted.

People look at football and don’t like to believe that it can be like basketball where if you have one Lebron or Kobe you can be a contender or a champion every year. As good as the Bulls in the 90s were with 6 championships in a row they won them because of Michael Jordan. In the NFL the best teams have the best QBs. Are there exemptions to the rule yes, but the rule is right far more often than wrong.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

and by 6 championships in a row

I meant 6 in a row with Jordan

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Words right out of the mouth.

I agree with you, poz, that QB play has as much to do with getting to the Super Bowl as anything – Kurt Warner took the freaking Arizona Cardinals to the Super Bowl; that alone justifies your opinion – but it doesn’t diminish the fact that the Patriots are the creme de la creme when it comes to running a football organization. There’s a reason that every year their coaching staff and front office is poached – they’re extremely good at what they do. Saying “all they did was draft Tom Brady” is unbelievably understating what they’ve done in New England.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

do you think

DJ would be competing for a title with Tom Brady in Buffalo? The answer to me is yes.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The answer to me is yes, too, but it’s not that simple. Marvin Lewis should be competing for championships in Cincinnati with Carson Palmer, but since the Bengals’ front office is a mess (and Lewis is a slightly below average coach), they’re stuck in neutral.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

ah ha!

so we are not incompetent! Back to my initial point! My comments about the Pats being better than us but only marginally without Brady was in response to this:

I think it says something about the Pats when they have picked at least 2 players that played in the senior bowl each year since 2000.
I don’t know what the Bills coaches are good at. 3 years in and I still have no clue. hopefully it becomes much clearer this year.

My point is that we do often put the Pats on a pedestal and label ourselves as inept when in fact we would be right up there with the best if we had Tom Brady. I guess then there are only two answers left, either:

A.) You put the best QB in the league on any team and they will compete for a title

or

B.) The Bills management is not so bad at evaluating talent and organizing a team

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

A - I don't think you can put Brady or Manning on the Lions and they would be automatically successful

They would be markedly better but not Super Bowl caliber.

B – I have always said this so I am going to agree with you obviously

Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 21, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If it is B, and I think it is, then there is a lot more hope resting on Trent Edwards than we may be comfortable with.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

From my point of view, labeling the Bills inept is completely separate from putting the Pats on a pedestal. I’m not nearly as vicious in my opinions about the Bills’ current state of affairs as 95% of Bills fans, but I’m also of the opinion that the Patriots’ organizational efficiency dwarfs that of every other organization in the league. It just feels like you’re using parts of different arguments to form one hypothesis, and I’m not sure it’s working in my feeble little brain.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

we we are all aware by the quality of this blog your brain is far from feeble

as you pointed out I am using different arguments to come to one hypothesis. I guess its just that as the Bills losing record results in exaggeration of our coaching and managerial ineptitude as does the Pats winning record result in exaggeration their coaching and managerial brilliance. I think we have a rather finely built team here. Tom Brady could very well win multiple Super Bowls for Buffalo if he was here with this team.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

and thus..

Dick Jauron would then be lauded as a brilliant coach with amazing scouts and wonderful front office communication.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That one sits better with me – “exaggeration of our coaching and managerial ineptitude vs exaggeration of their coaching and managerial brilliance”. That argument works for me – but that’s the nature of the medium. The bad is the worst ever, and the good is the greatest of all time. Hyperbole reigns supreme these days.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

fine conclusion by me as well

Though I wonder why the nature of the NFL, with quick turnarounds and falls from grace, hasn’t put an end to the exaggerations.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Because exaggerations sell tickets, make headlines and earn cash. Pretty simple.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

Though I doubt that exaggeration’s of the Bills ineptitude sell tickets. Oh wait…we go to the games regardless.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, well, my seats are 10 rows from the field. Right behind the opposing team and right in front of the cheerleaders.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 21, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha! Not all are so lucky my friend!

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Carson Palmer sucks. I don’t know why you or anyone considers that guy a top QB.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know why you or anyone considers that guy a top QB.

I think the fact that he got the Bengals… THE BENGALS… to the post-season has a lot to do with that.

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by Brian Galliford on Jan 22, 2009 6:43 AM EST up reply actions  

so a 1 year wonder?

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

With the Bengals, yes. With a competent organization, who knows?

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 22, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d say Palmer was more of a two year wonder. If you look at his career stats, he was one of the best QBs in the league for a couple of seasons and given his youth and draft status, people just assumed he was a star in the making. Then he had that disastrous 2007 season and the rough start before elbow injury in 08. Palmer is going to have to reprove that he is one of the games best, but he certainly has the arm to do so.

by kaisertown on Jan 22, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Carson Palmer is a top quarterback.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 22, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

No. Not to take anything away from Brady, but he’s 50% of the QB somewhere other than NE. I just don’t see other teams able to run a team the way the Pats do, and as a result the team responds to Brady like no other.

"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"

by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 22, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

no doubt

they are better than the Bills but as I said, the difference is not so great if you take away the star QB. They may have gone 11-5 but they did the same damage as us. No divisional title, no playoff games. We could have easily gone 11-5 last year if a few plays turn out different. Heck, with a one better kick and one less fumble we are 9-7. They weren’t that much better than us without Brady.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

100 players take part in the senior bowl every year. Drafting 2 of them each season isn’t all that special if you ask me considering that only 250ish people get drafted every year. You could pull names out of a hat and still have 2 players who played in the senior bowl with a little bit of luck.

by kaisertown on Jan 21, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

there is truth to that

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

it is special

if you consider that there are 31 other teams drafting along with you. my original point above is that there appears to be a corralation between utilzing the senior bowl as an effective tool to acquire talent and performance. The Pats are the best example of that. they take advantage of the several days that these players are accessible for interviews, practices, etc.

by gatornation on Jan 22, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

And my point is that every team takes advantage of the Senior Bowl and the players the Pats have drafted havn’t always been that special. The Senior Bowl process didn’t seem to help NE all that much when they drafted Kareem Brown, Ryan O’Callaghan, Garrett Mills, Guss Scott, Cedric Cobbs, Kliff Kingsbury, Rohan Davey, Jabari Holloway and Adrian Klemm

If 35% of the players drafted participate in the Senior Bowl and your average team has 8 picks it works out to 2.8 picks per team. Everything the Pats do isn’t some special thing that they do better than everyone else.

by kaisertown on Jan 22, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't like NE

but you cannot argue with their production on the field. it all starts with their drafts. every team hits and misses on picks and NE has been as successful as any other organizations at turning their picks into good players.

by gatornation on Jan 23, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

But my point is that you give them credit for using the Senior Bowl better than other teams, but most of their good later round picks didn’t play in the Senior Bowl and almost every player they drafted after the second round who did play in the Senior Bowl busted pretty bad. Every one of those guys I listed Except for Kliff Kingsburry was drafted in the 4th round or higher. If anything, I could make the argument that the Pats are worse then most teams when it comes to properly evaluating talent at the Senior Bowl.

by kaisertown on Jan 23, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

they

have been good at ST’s, putting together a pretty solid OL, finding the QB of the future we hope, did a great job getting Stroud and Mitchell last off-season. Finding Kyle Williams, Brad Butler and developing them. Youboty, Greer, McGee as well

Big weaknesses: Letting all those great Bills on that 2004 defense walk. Winfield, Clements, Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Pat Williams

Resigning Kelsay and Schobel to dumb deals

Trading for McCargo and Losman

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 21, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

Marv? Is that you?

I thought I was the only one who gave the Front Office any credit…. weird.

BTW – I couldn;t care less that they let injured Spikes, old Fletcher (who they replaced well IMO), and Sam Adams go. The other ones hurt the most.

Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 21, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

More

They’ve also found undrafted gems such as Jason Peters and Fred Jackson. Peerless Price was essentially turned into Trent Edwards, and then Price was re-acquired later for no player/pick compensation. Jonas Jennings was a great non-extension. They missed on Ryan Pickett and had to settle for Larry Triplett. They missed on Shaun Rogers and had to settle for Marcus Stroud.

By the way, Antoine Winfield was not on the defense in 2004. If I remember correctly, the money they would have used to sign Winfield got spent to sign Lawyer Milloy prior to the 2003 season.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 21, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Even a broken clock is right twice per day...

Price was created by the threat of (pre-pouting) Eric Moulds. He was never a good stand alone receiver, as he demonstrated in Atlanta and Dallas. I think more (dis)credit is due to Atlanta (Suckers!) than the Bills for the 1st rounder Buffalo got for him.

The main reason I could see for signing Rogers would have been to keep him away from the Jets. He’s not a push the pocket DT, which Buffalo (wrongly) hoped Stroud would be. To be fair, I think OBD did very, very well with the McGahee trade. Correct me if I’m wrong but the picks Buffalo got from the Ravens turned into Trent Edwards and Marcus Stroud. Not bad, considering that many Bills fans seemed to want to trade McGahee for a bag of onions and some yarn.

Okay, so my entry title was a bit over the top…

by Ron From NM on Jan 21, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I was just adding to the list of OBD’s recent hits and misses.

I’m not sure if the Bills used the Ravens’ 3rd round pick or their own 3rd round pick, but combined with a 5th round pick they were able to acquire Marcus Stroud.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 21, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I guarantee if you followed another team, any team (save for the Chiefs and Lions and Raiders), you could do this with them.

The Pats picked up a HOF, Super Bowl winning QB in the 7th round and then replaced him with a QB who hadn’t played since high school. They picked up Harrison despite having Milloy because they were worried that they would have contract problems. They’ve made no-name or washed up LBs into Pro Bowlers. They fleeced the Raiders for Randy Moss, fleeced the Dolphins for Wes Welker.

The Dolphins weren’t sure about John Beck so the year after they drafted him in the 2nd they picked up Henne and then signed Pennington. They out maneuvered 7 teams to sign Joey Porter. They traded a 4th rounder for Fasano and Ayodele.

I’m not going to discount any of the moves that you’ve mentioned but all I want out of the front office is more moves like Stroud. I want a proactive front office (like the Pats), not a reactive front office. Don’t be afraid to make the big signing or big trade. Throw some money at that player (like Suggs or Peppers) that would put us over the top (and on to 8-8!)

by twoeightnine on Jan 21, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

they will

i still contend they have been on the right track since 2006 even if the McCargo thing didn’t work out.

Pats draft picks Rounds 1-3 since 2006

2006
1. Laurence Maroney
2. Jimmy Williams, CB, VT
3. Dave Thomas, TE, Texas

2007
1. Brandon Merriweather
2. traded pick for Wes Welker
3. traded pick for moss

2008
1. Jerod Mayo
2. Terrence Wheatley, CB Colorado
3. Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan

They made shrewed moves via trade to nab Welker and Moss. Really bargains. Merriweather had I think 4 INT’s last year and Mayo was a stud. Obviously they have done some nice things. But we also have Lynch and Edwards, Poz and Stroud, McKelvin is a stud, jury is out on Hardy. We have faired pretty well too.

MARVelous

by MARVelous on Jan 21, 2009 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

I'm so glad Marv is helping me defend the FO against the big bad Pats

It feels like I am the only one sometimes.

Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 22, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Check this out

I didn’t really know where else to put this but I thought this might really be something worth sharing. I found a mock draft recently updated yesterday online, a 5 rounder, in which the guy really demonstrates he knows the Bills. Let’s hope he knows the rest of the league as well because a look at his first 3 picks for the Bills would have every single person here laughing and crying for joy all at the same time for about a month.

http://newnfldraft.com/

Rd. 1 – Brian Orapko
Rd. 2 – Alex Mack
Rd. 3 – Travis Beckum

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions  

wow

that was a quick update. Maybe someone told him that wasn’t going to happen. Oh well…it was nice seeing it up there even if it was so brief…..

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 21, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

If that happened I'd be happppppy

Orakpo, Unger, Beckum

Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 22, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks for the Day 3 updates K

No way Mack falls to the 2nd round. I am guess many teams will try to trade up to get him. I hope we are one of them. Raji = Ngata Déjà vu. He is fast becoming my first choice at #11 if we can’t trade down a few spots to get Mack. The DEs don’t seem to have the same degree of separation. Taking one in the 2nd or 3rd round will do.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 22, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Not saying Raji or Mack would be bad picks, but addressing the pass rush by “Taking one in the 2nd or 3rd round will do” is probably not going to be close to enough. I’m sick of avoiding top notch talents at the position and it’s a reason why our pass rush has been so bad for so long. I guess the same argument can be made for Center, but I’d rather try to trade up for Mack than take him at #11…..

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey K, I assume you got the tfy premium package thing

Can you check on what Lawrence Sidbury of Richmond has been doing at the Senior Bowl? I like what I’ve heard about him, and hope they have something to report about him. He would be a good depth pick later in the draft I think…

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 22, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, could you look to see what they are reporting on Western Michigan safety Louis Delmas?

From what little I’ve been able to dredge up, he likes to lay out WRs who dare cross the field and can paste TEs as well….

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 22, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Good catch WA

Heard Todd McShay on with Tim and Pat on Sirius yeaterday and he said Delmas will be the 1st safety taken – better instincts and reactions then Moore

No ratings in ESPN Insider by trait, they have him 4th behind Moore, Chung and Rashad Johnson.

by freddyjj on Jan 22, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Malcolm Jenkins would make a good free safety.

Malcolm Jenkins = Antrel Rolle.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 22, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Delmas’ info is now premium, but he was getting VERY good reviews I recall seeing. I’ll look elsewhere for anything on him….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

draftcountdown.com Tuesday

• Western Michigan S Louis Delmas really impressed me today. He played very physical and had some pop, seemed to transition well and even had one of the big hits of the day on Ramses Barden. Delmas also appeared to be one of the team leaders, barking out instructions to his defensive teammates from the deep safety spot. I heard he got beat deep a couple of times but I didn’t see it.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I don’t have a premium anything, that content was free yesterday!! The South notes are still available it appears. Here’s Sidbury’s comments through yesterday (I’m assuming once they update for today, it will be premium):

Lawrence Sidbury DL Richmond 6023 267 10 1/2 35
 
Monday Practice Notes: Displayed good quickness off the edge, but was sloppy with leverage and had trouble getting off blocks against the stronger linemen.
Tuesday Practice Notes: Athletic off the edge, Sidbury showed the ability to dip his shoulder and bend the edge. Uses his long arms well to keep bigger lineman off his body. A perfect example was when the former Spider got under big Herman Johnson’s pads and drove him back into the quarterback in a pass rushing drill. When he did not shoot his hands quickly, he had trouble getting off the blocks.
Wednesday Practice Notes: Would not take on the run directly. Sidbury tried to use his quickness to out maneuver blockers. Where he continued to show his talent is in the pass rush drills. Sidbury does need to become more consistent swatting offensive lineman’s hands, but he displayed multiple moves to get to the quarterback.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

from Draftcountdown.com

• Richmond DE Lawrence Sidbury was not impressive and didn’t look real strong.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

My point is that I don't think the separation

between the top tier DEs (who will most likely be gone) and the 2nd teir DEs is as great as with the DTs or Centers. Raji and Mack are beasts…..clearly All Pro players…..game changers…..I can say that about many of the DEs. So far the buzz is about English, an undersized DE??? That should tell you something about this deep, but uninspiring crop of DEs.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 22, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Well the buzz about English is due to his play at Senior Bowl practices….

None of the top DE’s are participating in that (Brown, Maybin, Orakpo, Johnson)…..

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with Joe

Mack and Raji are studs. The DE’s, as you pointed out, are very deep but don’t appear to be that much more special at the top than they are in the middle. The only DE at 11 that I would get really excited about would be Orakpo.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 22, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a UT alum...

…and Orakpo scares me. I hate it when guys skip out on games that can either make them or break them. It makes me think they’re afraid they’re going to be broken—and not in the injury sense.

by Ron From NM on Jan 22, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

thats a good point

its just that his sheer strength is so intriguing. That man is a beast!

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 22, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

by the way twoeightnine

I’m not clear on where you stand. Do you want a DE at 11? From the Gholston comment it sounds like no. So what do you want with the first pick?

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 22, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't care.

Whoever the best player available is at any of our many holes. It matters not what I think. Especially since I watch maybe 5 games of college football a year and one of those is Lehigh/Lafayette.

The only player that I’ve absolutely wanted them to draft in the past few years was Lynch and that was more for the personality than anything else.

by twoeightnine on Jan 23, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

to clarify where I stand

if Orakpo, Mack, and Raji are on the board I want Mack as my first choice, Orakpo as my second and Raji as my third.

Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.

by poz on Jan 22, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

If we get Mack or Raji at #11

I will be very happy. I don’t think the Bills Brass has the balls to take Mack at #11, so I will be hoping for Raji or a trade down.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 22, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Mack at #11

Yeah, you need Brass Balls to do that…

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 22, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

In a business of competition,

I want players that love to compete.

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 22, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You can’t fault a top 15 pick for not wanting to take part in the Senior Bowl festivities which can cost him millions if he gets hurt….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Or shown to be out of his league.

Lots of top picks that skip these things make money by not going. Have a bad week and get shown up by some no namer? You just lost $5m.

by twoeightnine on Jan 22, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, so why fault someone if THAT is the case?

It’s as if everyone assumes he’s going to be a bust simply because he isn’t doing the Senior Bowl thing.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly, and if you are already a top 5-10 pick, how much higher can you climb? I remember last year Dorsey skipped it. Ellis had one of the most impressive weeks of anybody on either squad and a lot of scouts were talking about how he had passed Dorsey and how it was a mistake for Dorsey to not particpate. Then some time passed, the buzz died down, the combine and pro days happened and when the draft finally rolled around Dorsey went 5 and got picked before Ellis.

by kaisertown on Jan 22, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't Dorsey hurt?

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 23, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

He was coming off an injury. He could have played.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

That isn’t the point though. The point is that Dorsey was ahead of Ellis before the Senior Bowl, Ellis was one of the few most impressive players during the week and despite not playing, Dorsey was still ahead of Ellis. It is smart for these top guys to not particpate.

by kaisertown on Jan 23, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not.

If I was a guaranteed top 10-15 pick I wouldn’t even think about going. I’d just work my ass off to get ready for the combine because that’s something you have to do, skip that and you’re in trouble. But if you’re a workout warrior you might move even higher.

by twoeightnine on Jan 22, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point about the workout warrior thing which Orakpo is supposed to be. That has got to be a factor.

by kaisertown on Jan 22, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Me first attitude?????

He only get 5 mil instead of 6 mil???? Poor baby!!!! Give me someone who wants to prove he can play at the highest level. Someone who is not afraid to prove he is the best of the best. Someone who wants to compete because he is a competitor. ATTITUDE is so important.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree that attitude is important, but “skipping the Senior Bowl” does not equate to “not willing to prove himself”, Joe.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Especially if he has an agent in his ear telling him he is a top 5 or 10 pick and that he shouldn’t do it. It’s not like he is the only guy to ever sit out the Senior Bowl. Most guys who think they are top 5-10 picks don’t participate.

by kaisertown on Jan 22, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, exactly.

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 22, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think the DEs

in this draft have proven to be that special. It is their chose of course. Personally, I am more impressed with what you do on the field against other good players. The combine is fun and a tool to evaluate talent, but how many “bust” did well at the combine.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 23, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I am more impressed with what you do on the field against other good players.

Well, ON THE FIELD, Brown, Orakpo and Maybin combined for 36.5 sacks against other good players in 2008. How is that not proving themselves? I’m getting the vibe that you’re married to the center position and aren’t willing to budge… and I mean no offense by that, because Lord knows I’ve done it before. (Malcolm Kelly, anyone?)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget

Martin Rucker and Antoine Cason!

Great plays don't make great players; great players make great plays.

by Fort Worth on Jan 23, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Martin Rucker was a one-or-two week fling. I’m over it, he’s over it; we’ve moved on.

Cason I’ll stand behind because he had a very solid year in San Diego. I maintain that he would have been an excellent pick for the Bills.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I still stand by

the Cason pick as well. So Brian you are not alone ;)

BTW, is Malcolm Kelly that bad? I mean, can we say “the jury is still out on him” just the way we are using this phrase for James Hardy?

Bills fan half way around the world

by moncheri on Jan 25, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked Cason too

I wanted him with our 2nd….

~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"

by Kurupt on Jan 25, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Did those 36.5 sacks come against good players?

I’m not so sure. Getting sacks on the LT at the University of North Texas just isn’t impressive at all. The Senior Bowl is supposed to highlight the best (senior) players entering the draft. Dominating a top tier LT prospect, on the other hand, is a bit more meaningful.

More to the point, I tend to shy away from draft prospects who themselves shy away from big games. I want the Bills to draft guys who want to play.

by Ron From NM on Jan 23, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking for Orakpo, he picked up 2 sacks against OU’s Trent Williams, one of the 2010 Draft’s top tackle prospects, and another against Oklahoma State’s Russell Okung, a better prospect than Williams.

6 of Brown’s 13.5 sacks came against two pretty good ACC opponents in Virginia Tech and Clemson. He was a bit streaky in the sack department, though, registering three in certain games and then going 1-3 games without one. He needs a little polishing.

Maybin had at least 1 sack in 9 of 12 regular season games. That includes 2 against Wisconsin and 1 each against Michigan and Ohio State – proving he can come up big in big rivalry games.

So no. The nature of the college game is that all stats aren’t against good competition. (For the record, I don’t think any of these teams played North Texas ;) ). But all three of these guys came up big in big games and showed the ability to pick up sacks in bunches. That’s exactly what Buffalo needs. All are top-notch prospects for the Bills.

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really,

I am just not impressed with this years crop of DEs. I think they will prove to be average. I would be happy with Mack, Raji, or even one of the top LBs.

"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"

by Joe P. on Jan 23, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t believe how popular Raji has become. Y’all borderline scoffed at me when I wrote that article about him last month… :)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Link.

The major premise of the article was generally agreed with – we need to get bigger, more physical and more versatile defensively – but a lot of people commented with the tone of “You really think we can take Raji in the first round?”

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 23, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

But that still isn’t the point. If Orakpo thinks he is a top X pick, whether he plays or not, then he is stupid for playing. If there is more risk involved then reward, why should he take part?

by kaisertown on Jan 23, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Trading down is a load of crap unless your in the BIG MONEY picks. I think Mack is a heck of a football player. I would love to see him as a Bill. I have a lot of trouble not taking Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo if they are there, but Mack is a good player.

by buffaloboy90 on Jan 22, 2009 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

Trading down is a load of crap unless your in the BIG MONEY picks.

I can’t even count up the number of ways I disagree with that statement. I’m not made of time. :)

Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more

by Brian Galliford on Jan 22, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Here Brian, I'll help you, Patriots, years between 2001 and 2007.

They almost (excepting last year) never ever use their initial 1st round pick on ANYONE, they always look to deal down and stockpile picks in high 2nd round, or even 1st rounders the next year. If we did that, I would be a very happy man, because it would mean we are looking at a multi-year bumper crop of players. Oh yeah, and they always concentrate on the lines.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Patriots...

They can afford to trade away their top picks for picks next year or in later rounds. THey are looking for development players. We are looking for starters, especially this year.

As for the Pats addressing their lines, they have taken Brandon Merriweather, Jarod Mayo, and Lawrence Maroney with their top picks the last few years. How exactly are those guys line players? We have also taken a DB, LB, and RB with our top picks. We picked up a DT with our third round pick last year. We have guys like Butler and Williams and our DEs that we drafted. We signed guys in free agency. We have addressed the lines. Obviously it can improve but don’t imply that the Bills ignore linemen.

Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.

by MattRichWarren on Jan 23, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Trading down just increases the risk you don’t get the player you want. It’s ridiculous.

To me, a situation where a team would trade down is so rare unless they are not trading out of the big money picks. I mean do you really have no one you want that badly to take at 11? Why not just take you favorite player? Is there really a “TIE” in terms of who you like? I mean give me a break. The notion that an entire football staff doesn’t think one guy is a better fit for their team than another is ridiculous.

You draft the best player available if you aren’t a big money pick, period.

by buffaloboy90 on Jan 23, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Why, honestly? Why not fall back into the draft if you have several people rated the same?

Your chances of getting them along with additional depth/future starters increases by doing so, ESPECIALLY if you peg your trade partner for picks in later drafts like the Pats have done consistently? What happens if NO ONE you like is around at your pick? Just take somebody then? Why not get rid of the pick, get one later and in a couple of other rounds to increase your chances at getting some players you like later?

I still hold to that if the Bills feel C is #1 on their list, they should fall back ASAP on draft day and then take that person later allowing themselves the chance to fix our crappy depth. Honestly, do you WANT Ellison or DiGi the first guy off the bench due to injury? I don’t, so getting more bodies in the draft is a REQUIREMENT in my mind.

Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?

by WABillsfan on Jan 23, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade down

Is a better option when:

1)You are certain the player you want can be had at a later spot ,and that you have an equally good alternate option if the player you want is taken by the time it gets to you on a trade down.

2)Your team has too many holes to fill. You need to stockpile as many picks as possible.

3)You rank 2 or more players of the same position close enough. Say in this year’s Center position OBD ranks Mack and Unger #1 and #2, but OBD thinks the talent drop from Mack to Unger is not significant enough, then they should make a trade down to get an extra player.

From Bills perspective, they actually have too many holes to fill for a number of years already. Every year I blame the front office for not trading down. I suspect I won’t be seeing my wishes come true anytime soon.

Bills fan half way around the world

by moncheri on Jan 25, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I just have a hard time believing to players would be looked at as EXACTLY the same.

by buffaloboy90 on Jan 24, 2009 12:24 AM EST reply actions  

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Mismatches in the Secondary
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Thoughts including Fitz, a poll, potential trades, free agent signings and BPA
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My Updated 2012 Bills Mock Draft - with Trade Down
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The Trade Fred Jackson Thread

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