Bills 1st Round Blunders
I wrote that drafting John McCargo in the first round was an embarrassment to the organziation.
MattRichWarren responded
"It happens to every organization!!!! How can you say it’s a huge embarrassment with guys flopping all over the place. I dare you to look at every team’s draft history for the last five years and find one team who has not had a first round pick flop. Do it as a fanpost and I’ll kiss your butt and rec it all day long."
The Patriots last 5 first round draft picks:
1. 2008 pick 10: Jerod Mayo
2. 2007 pick 24: Brandon Meriweather
3. 2006 pick 21 Laurence Maroney
4. 2005 pick 32 Logan Mankins
5. 2004 pick 21 Vince Wilfork
Huh, that's intesting Matt...none of those players seem anything close to the flop that McCargo has been. And if you think Maroney and Meriweather have been flops, then you're wrong because the patriots drafted them 21st and 24th respectively.
The Bills have drafted pretty well recently. However 2006 killed us.
1. 2006 pick 8 Donte Whitner
2. 2006 pick 24 John McCargo
This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.
0 recs |
59 comments
Comments
Wow. SO much is wrong with this.
- Why do the Pats get passes for Maroney and Meriweather because they were picks 21 and 24, but the Bills don’t get a pass when McCargo was drafted LATER THAN BOTH? That makes no sense.
- Matt asked you too look at every team in the league. You chose the Pats, the league’s best drafting team, and it proved his point. Nobody strikes gold with all of their picks.
- 2006 killed us? We picked up THREE starters in that draft (Whitner, Williams, Butler) as well as a solid nickel corner (Youboty) and a guy who’s a solid special teamer and can fill in at any LB position (Ellison). That’s without mentioning that they picked up LS Ryan Neill and reserve LB John DiGiorgio as undrafted free agents that year. It’s hardly remarkable, and yeah the McCargo and Simpson picks sucked in hindsight, but finding 7 future contributors in the span of one weekend hardly “killed us”.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here, but I am sure that you missed the mark.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 28, 2009 8:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why do the Pats get passes for Maroney and Meriweather because they were picks 21 and 24
They get passes because they are head and shoulders better than McCargo.
I don’t know how you don’t think Whitner and McCargo killed us. We blew so much money on whitner and he is so mediocre. McCargo we tried to trade this year for crying out loud.
Matt asked me to find one team who has had a first round flop in the past 5 years. and in my opinion the patriots have not had a flop.
Are you suggesting that Laurence Maroney and Brandon Meriweather are flops? are you kidding me? not even CLOSE to the flop that McCargo has been. how many snaps did McCargo play in this year? Maroney is their starting running back and Meriweather started for them when Harrison went out and did a good job.
I want you to tell me which one of the patriots picks that I listed was a flop brian. Go ahead.
by buffaloboy90 on Jan 28, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Maroney was a flop. He was productive and all, but he wasn’t a world-beater, and now he’s hurt enough to the point where the Pats might take another RB in round one.
So there. I went ahead. :)
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I never said Whitner was a good pick. But he is a starter, and he’s hovering near flop territory. I already said that McCargo was a bad pick in hindsight, which you seem to have missed.
You said “2006 killed us”, and that general statement is what I disagreed with.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BUt did the Pats trade up for Maroney like we did McCargo
The Bills CAN win every game
by killascript on Jan 29, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. And like I said, I’m not even coming close to defending the McCargo pick.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
Why is Meriweather a flop? I’d kill for his kind of production:
83 tackles
2 sacks
4 INT’s
2 FF’s
We can’t even get those numbers out of ALL of our safeties, let alone one…..
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 28, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never called Meriweather a flop. bb90 just mentioned in his post that if one were to consider Meriweather a flop, the Pats should get a pass because he was the 24th pick. And that made no sense to me.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Maroney was a flop. He was productive and all, but he wasn’t a world-beater, and now he’s hurt enough to the point where the Pats might take another RB in round one.
I never called Meriweather a flop.
am I missing something?
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maroney… Meriweather…
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes i did miss something.
see what happens when i don’t have my hot coco in the morning. thanks brian
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2006
was a good draft overall. I don’t think Simpson was a mistake. He did become a starter. I’m interested in knowing to what extent his recovery affected his play. Confidence can mean a lot and he could return to significant form this year. I’m no expert so I’m not advocating for him, but I think he was a bad draft pick for all the use we’ve gotten out of him. I’d really hate to see us let him go and then he blossoms somewhere else.
Oh and BTW, yeah, the McCargo picked sucked in hindsight.
by Ono on Jan 29, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure on Simpson. the reason I say that is because it was towards the end of the year that he didn’t see as much playing time. you would think he would get more playing time as the confidence in his ankle comes back. but this did not happen
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Simpson became a starter by default. He wasn’t that good his rookie year and definitely hasn’t shown any improvement since….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 30, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maroney....
You can say Maroney is not a bust but he has less than 1700 yards in three years, less than 600 per…. That averages 35 yards per game. That seems flop-worthy to me. He gave way to Sammy Morris this year.
Now he may not be as bad as McCargo but that guy is a bust…..
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 28, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well he only played in 2+ games this year and had less than 100 yards. You’d be better off looking at his 2 year production prior…
1580 yards, 4.4 ypc, 12 TD’s. Not great, but not poor considering he’d only started 6 of those games….
I wouldn’t call him a bust, but I wouldn’t call him a great pick either….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 28, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK here's his game averages for games he actually played
He’s played in 30 games over three years, not even two full seasons because he keeps getting injured.
1673 career rushing yards, 12 TDs.
That gives him 56 yards a game.
Do you really think your first round running back should be getting only 56 yards a game?
Our first round running back is averaging 77 yards a game and has 15 TDs in his first 28 games with JP and Trent as his QBs.
If you want me to sit here and debate Maroney’s impact or his numbers I can but the fact is he is an injury-plagued, less than productive running back. Joseph Addai was picked a couple picks later. Deangelo WIlliams was picked a few picks later. Maurice Jones-drew was taken in the second round.
Has Maroney been better than McCargo? Sure. He’s got McCargo beat by a mile.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus as the old saying goes "You can't make the team if you're not on the field"
He isn’t in glass joe territory but he certainly hasn’t been able to stay on the field to make plays for his team.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the injury. but not the rushing stats.
especially 2 years ago with Brady in the lineup they rarely ran the football. they seem to pass much more than they run. so I think that stat is skewed because of the offense they run
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is that his game average wouldn't even give him 1000 yards over a full 16 game season...
The guy is subpar for a running back much less a first round running back.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All I said was that he wasn’t a bust, but not a great pick either….Mediocre, average, whatever. Very Donte Whitner like, how’s that? Maybe not that bad….:)
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 29, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More on Whitner this afternoon. Let’s just say this – I ran some numbers on Whitner. They are UGLY.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m sure their not 8th pick of the draft worthy numbers.
where’s Haloti Ngata?? He was my pick
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Drumroll please: The Ravens.
The team that KNOWS talent too good to pass up.
"Buffalo Bills Football 2009 (sponsored by Labatt): A Future as Uncertain as the Beer You’re Drinking"
"It's not delivery, it's DiGiorgio!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 29, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i know – that was rhetorical. ;) thanks though
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. Ngata/Whitner defines “hindsight is 20/20”.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not even close Brian. I wanted Ngata from the beginning. No hindsigh here. he was the player that I targeted. no doubt
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but I’m saying if Whitner didn’t suck, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. That’s hindsight.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very true – i’ve been skeptical of Whitner since we drafted him – i know you know my feels on him.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol – feelings and hindsight. not a very good typer am I
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever seen Moroney play?
This guy is a good back. I don’t care what kind of stats you throw out there. This guys is good. He’s elusive, he’s punishing, and he has pretty good speed. The only thing that has held him back has been injuries.
by buffaloboy90 on Jan 29, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK....
so look at the guy and he’s good. Interesting argument I give you that.
He is elusive and punishing enough that he doesn’t average 1000 yards on a season? Stats are misleading, sure, but for a running back it’s production and you can’t do that from the bench. Even when he is in his numbers aren’t great.
With the same logic you can say that the only thing holding McCargo back is laziness, otherwise he’s a good player.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ANd yes...
I saw him play that one time against the Bills he wasn’t injured…. in three seasons….
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stats aren’t gospel, though you seem to think they are….
Maroney has averaged 4.3 ypc for his career. Lynch has averaged 4.1. Just because Maroney hasn’t gotten the same amount of work because the Pats use as many RB’s as possible doesn’t mean he is a bust or sucks. And just because a RB doesn’t average 1000 yards a season doesn’t mean he stinks either.
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 30, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok....
I don’t think they are the be all end all just like I said. They certainly help tell a story or paint a picture.
If he was on this team, though, we all would be complaining that Maroney was a bust. They said it during the week 17 game when he wasn’t on the field again (shockingly). If you play to win the games and play to make the playoffs, you need to be on the field. He has proven in every year he has been in the league that he can’t handle it. He has one season of 14, one of 13, and one of 3 games and his production, in the Patriots offense or not, has been adequate in the games he has played but if you draft a guy in the first round he’s supposed to be better than adequate.
Your comparison to Lynch is certainly justified. The difference is Marshawn has two thousand yard seasons. He has very little passing game to speak of and still produces. He has missed four games over his career but still has the numbers to back it up. He has more yards and TDs in his two years than Maroney has in three. Plus his per game average is 77 yards. much higher than Maroney’s. Putting the two next to one another helps my argument that we have a legit first round back and Maroney is a bust for a first rounder.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 30, 2009 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It never ceases to amaze me
O.K. the Bills made two bad picks early in the ’06 draft. Oh the horror. The Bills are the only team in the history of the NFL to screw up their first two picks of a draft. They are so terrible. (please note the incredible amount of sarcasm in the last sentences)
Cherry picking the Pats to make a point is silly. How about looking at EVERY team in the NFL and see how many busts they have had in the last 5 years.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jan 28, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t give a crap about the argument itself, but you guys that are accusing buffaloboy90 of cherry picking are totally off base. Read the darn post again. MattRichWarren dared him to find one team that didn’t have a first round flop. I’d say buffaloboy90 did this.
MRW, start puckering up…
by thefourwinds on Jan 29, 2009 4:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll pucker when he finds a team, buddy.
If Maroney was on our team I would be around here with you guys blasting him as a flop and trashing him. Face the facts, it’s a bad example to use.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Pats
don’t run the ball like most teams do. they set up the run by passing the ball and they use a number of running backs to accomplish the goal – to win the game.
looking at that list I don’t see any busts for the Pats so I think he has a valid point.
by gatornation on Jan 29, 2009 7:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry gator – i wrote that above but never got down to read your comment. they pass much more – your right.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So if the Pats don't run the ball like other teams
why would they ever use a first round pick on a running back? If anything that makes it even worse. Especially on a team who has had to pull linebackers out of the retirement home and defensive backs out of the receiving corps.
by twoeightnine on Jan 29, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably best ranked player on their board at the time and/or couldn’t find a trade partner. plus it is the threat of the run game or him catching out of the backfield that can make defenses gameplan for.
one thing i’ve leard is not to question the Pats moves. they are usually right.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Judas Priest. What are we, eighth graders?
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 29, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am simply pointing out that the specific focus of the dare was to find one team. As I said, the specific argument is something I really don’t care about. There was a great deal of sarcasm in my statement about puckering up….
by thefourwinds on Jan 29, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is cherry picking
McCargo was the Bills 2nd pick. If you look at the first 2 picks you see a different story. Chad Jackson anybody? The Pats took him in the second round in 2006. He is a major flop. Maroney and Jackson is just about as bad as Whitner and McCargo
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jan 29, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, did you read my post? it was a response to MattRichWarren.
by buffaloboy90 on Jan 29, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes i read it
It still baffles me that Bills fans expect every pick the bills make to be perfect. To harp on the fact that McCargo was a bad pick (a point I will not argue) and start comparing the Bills past drafts to other teams USING ONLY THE 1ST ROUNDERS is silly to me. I understand that you are simply replying to Matt, I just find the inability to except the fact that all FOs make blunders on draft day unrealaistic.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jan 29, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
buffaloboy90 – i like your feistiness and I think your right about this.
I definately think Maroney and Meriweather are better than say JP and McCargo.
Maroney might have injury issues – but he doesn’t suck. where JP and McCargo HAVE sucked. i say have because I think McCargo comes out this year and plays up to his potential. i have no reason to think that other than I think he was embarassed by the whole trade not going down and being labeled a bust. or he could do the opposite – we’ll see.
See Kurupts comments on Meriweather – he gets very good production.
sireric was right about Chad Jackson – now he’s probably their biggest bust
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 29, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The purpose was never to compare the two.
McCargo vs. Maroney is a no brainer. Maroney has been much more productive. But I wouldn’t call McCargo or any other pick an embarassment to the organization as buffaloboy did. Every team makes a bad pick or two here and there. Did Ryan Leaf send the Chargers into a pit of shame? They got over it.
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every team makes a bad pick or two here and there
So my patriots example wasn’t good enough huh? ok.
by buffaloboy90 on Jan 29, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…interesting point about San Diego. I would suggest that San Diego only got over it because they got extra for trading Eli Manning who wouldn’t play for them. They got a quality QB in Rivers (despite what we may think of him), plus picks that resulted in Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding.
by thefourwinds on Jan 29, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And this was only after having finished bad enough to be in the position to draft Eli Manning with the first pick in the draft.
by thefourwinds on Jan 29, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They did get Shawn Merriman with the pick the Giants gave them
then Luis Castillo later in the round…. but if you recall that was the year they got really good (2004) cause BRees started playing lights out. Not important…
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 29, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sanders!
With a new D-Line coach there is a slight chance that it could bring McCargo outta the dog house if he puts in the work, he did look very impressive two seasons ago in the goal line stand against the Giants!
by Fam_1st on Jan 29, 2009 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah....
Remember that one time McCargo played well……
Playing Eternal Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 30, 2009 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could see McCargo break out this year. Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 30, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what people said last year
before he came to workouts and camp unmotivated and out of shape, before he couldn’t sniff the field, and before he was traded and then untraded in one day.
by twoeightnine on Jan 30, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by 
























