State of the Bills Roster: Guards/Centers
by Brian Galliford on Jan 6, 2009 8:30 AM EST
in Events
48 comments
The "State of the Bills Roster" series trucks on! If you're new around these parts within the past nine months or so, this series is an off-season progression of posts in which we'll break down Buffalo's roster in-depth. From these discussions, we'll put together a "Community Needs List" in priority order, then begin researching potential free agent and draft acquisitions that will satisfy all of the Bills' needs as we perceive them.
Hey - at least this way, we're doing the job right. Right? Unlike a certain front office we're forced to support.
And now, we continue our foray into heavy-duty off-season work at Buffalo Rumblings. It's our "State of the Roster" series, off-season mode, and we'll continue the discussions by breaking down the Bills' situation on their interior offensive line - the much-maligned centers and their wingmen.
Previous installments: QB :: RB :: TE :: WR :: OT
Opening statement
There isn't a lot to be said here that hasn't already been thoroughly discussed throughout the season. Buffalo's center play has been lackluster for a number of years now, and though the guard play has been better, it hasn't been great. There is little depth to speak of here. This is clearly the problem area on Buffalo's underachieving offensive line. With three of the five non-practice squad players unrestricted free agents, the time for change is ripe.
#75 Duke Preston (starter, center)
6'5", 326 pounds
Age: 27 in June 2009
Contract status: Unrestricted free agent
- The best that can be said about Preston's 2008 efforts is that he beat out veteran Melvin Fowler for the starting center job during the season, and that he played with some passion while he was in the lineup. Clearly, his actual blocking is lacking however. At this point, Preston's best shot at returning to the Bills in 2009 is as a backup at all three interior spots - and that's not a given.
#66 Derrick Dockery (starter, left guard)
6'6", 330 pounds
Age: 29 in September 2009
Contract status: 5 years remaining (UFA after 2013); owed $26.25M in base salaries.
- When Buffalo's line was struggling to run block and pass protect in the middle of the '08 season, Buffalo's coaches called out Dockery as the man not playing up to snuff. They were right - Dockery, Buffalo's highest-paid lineman, stunk during the critical mid-season stretch. He responded by playing better in the run department late in the season, but when former fifth-round pick Brad Butler is out-playing him, there are issues. Dockery has another season or two to prove that he'll be worth the exorbitant dollars he's scheduled to make as his contract expires; if he doesn't do any proving, he'll likely be released.
#60 Brad Butler (starter, right guard)
6'7", 315 pounds
Age: 26 in September 2009
Contract status: 4 years remaining (UFA after 2012); owed $5.65 million in base salaries.
- Butler once again had a strong season, proving that the modest contract extension that he signed prior to the start of the '08 season was a smart move by the Bills. Butler still missed a stretch of games due to injury, however, also proving that the Bills can't rely on his health for a full slate of games. He's a keeper, but his injury history is one of the main reasons the Bills need to bolster their depth on the interior.
#65 Jason Whittle
6'4", 279 pounds
Age: 34 in March 2009
Contract status: Unrestricted free agent.
- He has spent two seasons on Buffalo's roster and has not made an impact in any capacity. He's dealt with injuries as well. Re-signing Whittle would be pretty easy, but if the Bills want to upgrade their depth on the interior - and they certainly should - Whittle's spot is the one that will be upgraded.
#67 Melvin Fowler
6'3", 310 pounds
Age: 30 in March 2009
Contract status: Unrestricted free agent.
- Fowler struggled as the starting center in both 2006 and 2007, and was eventually replaced by Preston as the starter this year after Preston got an opportunity thanks to a Fowler injury. With an upgrade at center looming and Preston a more versatile depth option, Fowler is almost certainly a goner.
Other guards/centers on the roster: Brandon Rodd (practice squad)
The Breakdown
Keepers: Dockery, Butler. Their contracts dictate they'll be back. Butler's injury history is a concern, as is Dockery's lethargy and underachieving. Depth is sorely needed here, and it wouldn't hurt for that depth to be a young guy they can develop.
Extendables: Preston I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea, either, but you can do worse than Preston as a reserve. He should not, and likely won't, be re-signed as a starter.
Expendables: None.
Questionables: None.
Goners: Whittle, Fowler. Both are going to be at least 30 next season, and both are rather average, run-of-the-mill players. They'd be cheap to re-sign, but why bother?
What we need: Obviously, we need a starter at center. We need at least one reserve guard as well to replace Whittle and possibly develop to replace Dockery and/or Butler. We'll put Preston's future up to a vote. If you, the Rumblings community, votes down re-signing Preston as a reserve, we'll add a second swing guard to the list. So yes - we could possibly be looking at needing three players at this position, depending on the Preston vote.
That's it. I'm done with the easy stuff. Now it's on you, folks. Who wants to gush some more about Cal center Alex Mack? Or should the Bills try to fill their need at center with a veteran? Have any names of potential additions you'd like to throw into the ring? Have fun with this, and let's get brainstorming.
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wow
voting is 50-50 right now. I’m shocked. I’m all for dumping both Dookie and Flower. I say get a FA and draft a guy. If Mack falls to us in the 2nd – GREAT, if not get a guy like Wood or Shipely in the later rounds and let him be the back-up.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jan 6, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I voted to keep Preston because he can be used in all interior positions. Then get a guy like Birk for 2 solid years while drafting someone in the 4th round or so to develop behind him.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 6, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
total upgrade
dump them both and get better players. Just my opinion
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think both of our guards are league average starters or better. Even though Dockery has yet to live up to his contract, he is still rock solid.
I thought Chambers did a really solid job playing guard when he had too, and I think he can handle being the backup at the four offensive line spots other than center. Considering that the Bills are going to want to give Bell a decent amount of snaps at both tackle spots in OTAs, training camp and the preseason, there should be opportunities to get Chambers some time to get familiar playing guard.
So if Chambers can play some guard, then Preston’s versatility could really be limited to a backup center and I don’t even want him in that capacity. If the Bills were to sign a starting calibur guy in free agency like a Brad Meester, then I would have no problem bringing Preston back as depth that won’t actually play barring injury. If Buffalo were to draft a center early, but not in the first round, like Unger or Luigs then I definitely want a better backup than Preston. Ideally Geoff Hangartner or somebody who could push the rookie for playing time early.
I would feel really good about an offensive line that looks like (I used the backslash thing / to show what would be a training camp battle where I couldn’t really guess the winner at this point):
Peters – Chambers – Bell
Dockery – Chambers/Hangartner
Luigs/Hangartner
Butler – Chambers/Hangartner
Walker – Chambers – Bell
That’s 8 offensive lineman which is a reasonable number to carry and great depth at every position. Throw another interior lineman on the practice squad just in case and you might have the deepest unit on the team next year.
Since I don’t think the Bills are in a position to cmpete next year, I don’t want any depth that would be short term. That is my real problem with Preston. Does anybody actually want to give him a multi year contract, even as a backup? That is why I think the Bills need to draft a center in the first 3 rounds AND sign a quality mid-tier FA.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the Preston at 1-2 years MAX time frame on any extension
I would prefer the bum got NONE.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
by WABillsfan on Jan 6, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to get rid of Preston
but for totally sentimental reasons. He just makes me angry. He reminds me of this season.
I’m going to sit here and scream Alex Mack until blue in the face.
by JPH on Jan 6, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well my position remains the same
Find a trade partner and trade down to 20-22 and get Mack (As long as we are in front of Vikes, Dolphins and Stteelers as they are the only ones that might take a center). As far as run blocking goes, he is really better than any other Center in the draft by a long-shot and he could come in and have an immediate impact on Day 1.
I don’t deny the need for a DE, I just feel we should get him in FA. We can ill-afford to draft a non-impact player and taking a chance on a DE is too risky, we need immediate results at the DE spot next season so I really hope the FO digs deep and finds a way to bring in a guy like Suggs. He would not only bring a much improved pass-rush but also bring leadership and more importantly a big dose of aggressiveness, which is really lacking right now.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Jan 6, 2009 11:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Dolphins have Samson Satele and will not be thinking center when they have needs at a number of other spots.
he (Alex Mack) is really better than any other Center in the draft by a long-shot
We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
so I really hope the FO digs deep and finds a way to bring in a guy like Suggs.
We will also have to agree to disagree on whether or not Suggs will be available. And if he isn’t you are left with Bertrand Berry (assuming he doesn’t resign too) and nobody else in FA. I think the draft becomes Buffalo’s only option in a month or two when teams start resigning their guys.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keysh – my problem with this is what if we trade down and Mack isn’t available. Then we wasted a good opportunity to take the best pass rushing DE available. At 20 there are very good players – but definately better players at 11.
I really think we should address center in 2nd or 3rd rounds. First round is too expensive for a center with our pressing needs at DE. If we didn’t have DE issues then I would be on the same bandwagon – but DEs are tougher to find.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 6, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that the only DE that I like at 11 is either a pipe dream or too big!
Sure Bets at #11
Tyson Jackson – I like him a lot but he’s too heavy and is probably best suited for a 3-4 scheme.
Orakpo – I like him at #11 but I really doubt that he drop that far.
Note: Selvie & Brown are good but they are too small in my opinion to ever be a real impact player at the next level.
Possible Round 2 picks:
Micheal Johnson – Great physical size, great athlete. Not certain of his desire.
Greg Hardy – If he decides to come out this year could easily be available in Round 2. This guy has pefect size & speed for the position and I am convinced if he stays healthy could be a great DE in a 4-3
So that brings me back to trading down for Mack and then picking up Hardy or Johnson in the 2nd round.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Jan 6, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think brown would be a good addition. I was thinking him or hopefully Orakpo would be there.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Jan 6, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mack is my pick and it will remain my pick until
we make our big splash by taking Brown as our FA center…HaaaaaaHaaaaaaahaaaaaa!!!!!
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations"
by Joe P. on Jan 6, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am wondering if there is any chance Butler could play some center....
I know in college he was a tackle and now here in the pros he is a guard…….he seems like a good enough athlete where I think the transitition could be minimal……of course health is still an issue……but it’s something that I’ve thought about….
btw I voted to get rid of preston…..Im sick of his shenanigans………
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 6, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wrote a fanpost on exactly that topic last offseason. Butler is too tall to play center in the NFL.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so just because he's tall he cant play center???
That doesnt really prove anything to me……plus using 6’2"-6’3" guys hasnt exactly been working for the Bills…..might as well try something else.
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Jan 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point wasn’t height so much as what height means to leverage. Preston isn’t exactly a short guy – he’s 6’5". We all know leverage was his biggest issue; in the rare instances he could get it, he performed OK. Jason Brown is a good center because he’s a 6’3" bowling ball, and it’s easy for bowling balls to get leverage. All we need at the center position is a guy who can move the pile, and you need leverage to do it.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 6, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since you have to start the play bent over at the waist, establishing leverage is really tough for centers because you can’t effectively use your lower body strength until you straighten yourself out some. That is why centers are short and guards and tackles can be tall. your right Brian, it’s all about leverage.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets make sure that this is not an either/or proposition here
Its definitely easier physically to set up more quickly if you’re shorter, yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be reasonably tall and play C. Mangold, Mawae and Matt Birk are all 6’4". Kent Hull is listed at either 6’4" or 6’5". Don Mosebar was 6’6". It can be done, it just often takes a special player.
by PozDispenser on Jan 6, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well there are plenty of 6’5 centers in the league and while it isn’t an either/or situation at that height, I think almost certainly is at 6 feet and 7 1/8 inches tall like Butler is. He simply cannont play center.
In the fanpost I wrote last offseason, I listed every center who started 5 or more games in 2007. 13 of those players were 6’4 or taller so you can obviously handle the position at that height. There were 12 players at 6’3 which is average for the position. And there were 11 players shorter than that. So being tall for a center isn’t a bad thing and the best centers were pretty evenly spread out and there wasn’t a pattern to how tall the more talented guys are. But you definitely can not play center at 6’7.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
So the conclusion you drew from the survey you did was that height was not at all an indicator of someone’s ability to play C, but you still say you can’t play C at 6’7". Is it easier to gain leverage when your center of gravity is closer to the ground? Absolutely, no argument there. But it makes no sense to me that one or two more inches makes it impossible for a guy to get low.
by PozDispenser on Jan 6, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His point was that the guys considered the “elite” centers weren’t all the same height.
Honestly, I don’t understand why we’d want to move Butler in the first place. There’s a lot of talent available at center this season, not so much at guard, and Butler is fine at right guard.
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by Brian Galliford on Jan 6, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So the conclusion you drew from the survey you did was that height was not at all an indicator of someone’s ability to play C
That isn’t what I meant. I meant that the average NFL center is 6’3, but the very best centers in the league are both taller and shorter than that. Matt Birk, Andre Gurode, Nick Mangold, Kevin Mawae and Nick Hardwick are all examples of above average 6’4 centeres, but there isn’t a solid 6’5 center in the league right now. Jeff Faine and Shaun O’Hara are some above average 6’3 guys and Dan Koppen, Jeff Saturday and Olin Kruetz are all 6’2. There were only two 6’1 centers who had 5 starts (Dominic Raiola and Todd Mclure). So essentially EVERY good center fits into that three inch range or 6’2 – 6’5.
I’m not sure how anyone could think that Butler or any 6’7 player could ever play center with any effectiveness.
It is easier to gain leverage as a center in the thinking that you start low to the ground and have to drive up into the defensive lineman. But you can’t get leverage if you are bent over at the waist and you can’t straighen out your body and get drive from your knees if you are that tall. There will never be a 6’7 center to play in th NFL, it just can’t work.
I know it seems like a couple inches isn’t a big deal, but if 6’3 is the average size, I feel safe assuming that it is also the ideal size. So Butler is really 4 inches from the ideal size and there are also just a handful of guys in the league who even play center at 6’5 and only a few more who have ever excelled at the position at that height.
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That isn’t what I meant. I meant that the average NFL center is 6’3, but the very best centers in the league are both taller and shorter than that.
Which is to say that height has no predictive value when it comes players at the ‘elite’ status.
but there isn’t a solid 6’5 center in the league right now.
Absolutely true. But there have been. Consider the above mentioned Don Mosebar, who made three Pro Bowls while playing the center position at 6’6" (1986, 1990, 1991). I have a hard time believing that Mosebar would suddenly be an ordinary to poor player with an extra inch.
I feel like the crux of the argument lies with that second or so between the snap of the ball and the engagement with the defender. He has a slightly different technique (he tends to be more face up), but even so he plays low on the ball. A player with good quickness and set up (into a wide base) often wins the battle. Again, I’m not saying its not more difficult for a 6’7" man to get low than a 6’2" man, but I am saying its reductionist to assume that its not possible.
by PozDispenser on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point about the elite players was kind of in reference to the thought that seems to have taken this board over that bigger is always better. Despite 6’3 being the most common height for an NFL center, there are far more elite guys who come in at 6’4 or 6’2 than 6’3 which I found to be interesting. Players who are both bigger and smaller than the ideal size have great success. My entire point is that 85% of the leagues starters at center all fit into a 3 inch height range and Brad Butler is an entire 3 inches taller than that range. That is a huge difference
I have a hard time believing that Mosebar would suddenly be an ordinary to poor player with an extra inch
It’s not that Mosebar would have some awful decline in production if he were suddenly an inch taller halfway through his career, but I bet that inch would have made a difference and he wouldn’t have been as good of a player. A more interesting question should be how much better could Mosebar have been if he was a couple of inches shorter?
It’s also important to note that Mosebar was a truly special talent who was a first round pick in what was probably the most impressive collection of talent to ever get drafted. He could have been a hall of fame type of player if his career hadn’t been injury shortened. It’s also worth noting that Butler is an inch taller than he is. So one player had a good career who is an inch taller than anyone else to play the position and we assume that a player who is another inch taller than that could do it? A lot of boxers can go up a weight class and win a fight against good competition, but how many guys can fight somebody two weight classes bigger and have success?
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose this is just an agree to disagree situation. You’re absolutely right that we tend to overvalue size when it comes to virtually every position, but thats not the issue for me. You premise was that someone who is 6’7" could not effectively play center. I disagree that height is the issue. A taller person with a wide base requires you to get just as low to move him as shorter person with a narrower base.
I think we’re also missing the fact that there are very few 6’7" tall guys in the league in general. If you’re a college coach who has even a marginally athletically gifted guy that size, you swing him out to tackle. Physically, center is the easiest postion to play, even if you face a bunch of huge, taleneted DTs. You’re protected on both sides, and you rarely have a true one on one matchup. Most of often you’ll get a chip or a down block from one of your guards before they reach to the LBs. The guy that you’re going to put there is going to tend to be very intelligent, and with good quickness, but doesn’t have to be a good athlete. Would it take some technique modification? Of course, but if Butler can generate push from the down position as a guard, he can do it as a center.
Bear in mind that I don’t want to move Butler, I think we should stick to drafting a center early and picking up a FA backup, but I felt like I needed to defend the idea.
by PozDispenser on Jan 7, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are closer to being in agreement than you think. I’m not saying that someone who is 6’7’’ simply cannot play center because they would stink at it.
It’s the same way there aren’t any 6’3 or taller cornerbacks in the NFL either. It would take a very special skillset for someone that tall to be able to cover WRs one on one. They would need great straight line speed and acceleration, they would need incredible change of direction skills for someone that big and so on. There are probably a handful of 6’3’’ or 6’4’’ guys who could play corner pretty well in the NFL, but players with that athleticism would be 10x more valuable at WR then they would at corner.
It’s the same way with Butler or other 6’6’’ and 6’7’’ offensive lineman. They would need to have a really special skillset to succeed at center and if they had that skillset, they would be a star at a different OL spot. And that is why nobody will ever be a center at 6’7’’.
I do still feel the need to say that I think the super tall Brad Butler would be a monumental failure at center. He is so tall being a little bigger than 6’7’’ and is just average athletically. I don’t think he could ever get a consistent push, would have trouble stopping swim moves from quicker DT etc ….. I think he is 5x better at guard then he ever could be at center.
by kaisertown on Jan 7, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, since he is tall he can’t play center.
If someone who was 6’7 could effectively play center, wouldn’t somebody in the history of the NFL have done so already?
by kaisertown on Jan 6, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'm changing my ming
I initially voted to keep Preston for just the reasons that J2 mentioned above, but I think I might be coming back the other way. It seems to me we can find someone who’s more technically sound and more savvy with the line calls. Draft a C high and plug him in right away; a savvy, reasonably priced veteran to backup the interior; and move in Chambers in as the first lineman off the bench for any position except C.
by PozDispenser on Jan 6, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
We need a Center
I don’t care how – but either through Free Agency or the Draft we need a legit top 15 center. Look at the playoff teams…. All of them have a good to great center, and the ability to grind out a 3rd and short at any given moment… That is what a playoff team in the NFL needs…
by D.C. Fan on Jan 6, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
And our biggest problem this year was redzone production. A dominating Center would help improve our ability to pound to ball into the endzone without having to always go to the air. On 3rd & medium (3-7y) Marshawn averaged only 2.2y, which is probably why Turk never went for it on 3rd and short (<2). Marshwan got only 12 carries this year on 3rd and short. Being able to pound the ball also ensures that teams respect the run and pile the box, which would open things up for the receivers.
There is no doubt that Alex Mack would be an impact player for us.
BEAST MODE, During the week plan on it & on game day thrive on it!
GO BILLS!
Section 336 Row 13
by keysh67 on Jan 6, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Resign him and let him fight for a job. Bring in another veteran as well.
Just because we resign him doesn’t mean we have to keep him…
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 6, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t possible that Dockery struggled this year because he was overcompensating for terrible center play? I’m not really making an argument here, just throwing the idea out there. I feel like if we had Matt Birk or a great rookie in there, Dockery and Butler would immediately look much better
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Jan 6, 2009 12:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We’ve had terrible center play for two years now, and Dock was just fine in 2007.
Buffalo Rumblings - all you care to know about the Buffalo Bills and more
by Brian Galliford on Jan 6, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
Kawika Mitchell is a leader. He will help this young team develop.
by poz on Jan 6, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted to dump Preston
The fight he attempted to start at the end of the 1st half against the Pats did it for me, and by that, the guy was already on a short leash as far as being brought back in my book.
I think honestly that we are better served going with Bell as a swing backup tackle, and Chambers as a 4 position man. I think Whittle will be retiring soon anyhow, he was thinking about doing that last year before Kugler and McNally talked him into one more season. Fowler, who is that again? He did what when? Never heard of him, and please don’t make me remember anything about his time here…..
I think we would be best served getting a decent/good vet backup C in FA, which seems to be full of them this year, you know the second tier guys, but lets get one of the ones at the TOP of that group rather than a bottom feeder like Fowler, IF and I mean IF OBD plans to solve the C issue this offseason within the 1st 2 rounds of the draft. Otherwise, I think we get a top level guy, and ugh, resign Preston to be ONLY the backup C and emergency emergency backup guard.
Now if only this gopher could play DE, we would be doing better, I mean, who couldn't play better than the corpse brothers Kelsay and Denney?
by WABillsfan on Jan 6, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good Riddance Fowler!
Fowler is a journeyman backup center at best, Preston is not much better. They need to get someone in the draft. Kent Hull was a Pro Bowler and helped lead the Bills offensive line during the Super Bowl years.
Butler is good, Dockery needs to spend more time in the gym instead of depositing his game check, and we do need more depth at this position.
by BuffaloWhiner on Jan 6, 2009 2:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we get Mack then we know that the direction of the Bills next year will be to emphasize the run game. And the ideal situation would be to trade down to about 20 and take him. Realistically though DJ is defensive minded and we will probably go DE in the first. (I’m liking Everette Brown more and more. He is now listed at 252 0r 253 so I can easily see him putting on 10 more pounds to get to 260+. And he has the best moves)
Thankfully, this is a real good year for centers. If we go DE in the 1st let us hope Mack makes it into the second. If not, Unger would be my second choice. Mainly for his versatility. Luigs would be third. Luigs does not have great lower body strength and gets eaten up and rolled sometimes. He should be able to correct that with an NFL weight training regimen. Caldwell is slipping but I don’t know why. So there is a definite dropoff after those three. If we do not get a center in the first 2 rounds then I am off the Modrak wagon.
I voted to dump them both. And I agree Dock should get one more year. If he does not improve, we go starting guard shopping in 2010.
Not related to this post but I read on Buffalo Range (wish we had a link to that site) that Greg Hardy has off field issues and is not well liked by his teammates. So he is totally off my DE list now.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yah!
Everette Brown. Join the fanclub
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 6, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t it interesting that Brown is rated the #2 DE by ESPN and is not even on McShay’s top 32.
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Jan 6, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we do not get a center in the first 2 rounds then I am off the Modrak wagon.
Not so fast. Very good centers can and have been found in later rounds. Don’t go killing Modrak for drafting a center in the fifth if he starts next year. He could be really good.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 6, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What if Modrak wants a C
but the ‘inner circle’ of Hades says no??? How can anyone be criticizing Modrak then? Didn’t he want Cutler or Ngata in ‘06? Even though I’m not 100% behind Modrak, I’d still trust him as a final decision maker over the clusterf*** by committee garbage we have….
~K
"I’m Kurupt with Buffalo Rumblings. I am worth hundreds!"
by Kurupt on Jan 6, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has to put his foot down!!
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Jan 6, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Modrak carries my proxy
everything goes better with a BIG MACK
by keuka121 on Jan 6, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft one, sign another
I voted to chuck both Duke and Melvin.
Would love to see Mack, Unger or Luigs drafted.
As FAs, not sure Birk would come here but wondered if Brad Meester from Jax would be a guy that could help.
Have to believe we could draft a player that would be an upgrade over Duke, Fowler and Whittle and have the ability to play G/C. Don’t we also have an OL on the practice squad from Ark (felton) that we signed as an undrafted FA last year?
by freddyjj on Jan 6, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Preston needs to go
He and Fowler can help each other pack. If Buffalo decides that Mack is ‘the guy’ I’d rather they stay put and just take him at #11. Let Kiper muss his hair and rant about reaching. I’m all for getting extra picks (see my long winded breakdowns of trading partners pre-draft last offseason) but I don’t know that I trust OBD to get it right. Since the ‘inner circle’ has repeatedly overpaid to move back into the first round or early second (McCargo, Poz), I can seem them getting underpaid (like a late 3rd) to move back…and possibly not getting their guy.
In this particular case, I think Jauron’s play not to lose mindset will work in favor of those hoping the Bills will pick a center at #11…and preferably a center people have heard of, not some guy from an elite charm school for girls. It just kind of feels like the 2008 draft, when Buffalo had ‘the guy’ in their sights and took him. Let’s just hope this time it’s a big boy (C or DE, with my preference being C) instead of a skill position guy.
by Ron From NM on Jan 6, 2009 8:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
just
dont see anyway in the world a Center is taken at #11. Just no way…..maybe if we were one Center away from winning the Super Bowl but we clearly aren’t that team. We are
3 OL, 3 WR, 2 TE, 4 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB’s, New Coaching Staff, New Front Office, and new strength and conditioning program from being a super bowl team. No, 7 straight 7-9 team takes a Center at #11. We’d be laughed out of the NFL
MARVelous
by MARVelous on Jan 8, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
3 OL, 3 WR, 2 TE, 4 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB’s, New Coaching Staff, New Front Office, and new strength and conditioning program from being a super bowl team.
That was longer than I expected. :-) Marv get off the ledge man.
by MattRichWarren on Jan 8, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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