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Without Derek Schouman, is it time to set Shawn Nelson loose?

Something I heard ESPN's John Clayton say the other day has really resonated with me and really brought to light an aspect of the Buffalo Bills' offense which may be contributing to our ineptitude on that side of the ball more than we realize. If my memory serves me accurately, Clayton noted that defenses in 2009 are bracketing number one wide recievers with a defensive back and a safety more than ever this year and that as a result, teams are channeling their offenses through tight ends at a record pace. According to Clayton, eight tight ends this season are on pace for 80 receptions, while 12 more are on pace for 70 catches. In essence, two thirds of teams this season are likely to have their tight ends emerge as their leader in receptions.

Is it possible that it is no coincidence that our offensive struggles truly became apparent after the season-ending injury to Derek Schouman, who during the Bucs game was emerging as our receptions leader?

Star-divide

It's been evident since Week 1 that we are struggling to get the ball to our superb receivers, with Trent Edwards obtaining the nickname "Captain Checkdown" because of all his dinks and dunks to Fred Jackson and then later on, Marshawn Lynch. Of course, in our case - and I have been outspoken about this - our offense is inept because we have the worst offensive line in the league, but is it not possible that Captain Checkdown can become effective if he starts using a tight end capable of coming through for him like Ben Watson, Vernon Davis, Antonio Gates, Anthony Fasano, Zach Miller, Dallas Clark and dozens more are for their quarterbacks? Obviously, with our offensive line problem, I am very aware that someone like Derek Fine and even Shawn Nelson, are supposed to be vitally needed to help block. However, its clear at this point that a tight end can do little to stem the tide through our porous line - the problems are simply too large for a tight end to help.

It may be time to set Shawn Nelson loose strictly as a receiving tight end and keep him in for a majority of the snaps in this role. We need to get creative and throw the kitchen sink at our offense and we can start by using Shawn as he was meant to be used - as a receiver. Trent Edwards obviously does not have the time - and in the eyes of some fans, the will or ability - to throw the ball downfield right now. Well, if this is the QB we have to rally around to try and turn the season around, we might as well play to his tendencies, even if they are undesirable. We know our running backs are great receivers, and if we throw Nelson out on routes consistently, it could help give Trent more checkdown options. You never know - it could even result in teams pulling safeties off of Lee Evans and Terrell Owens.

Tight ends are rapidly evolving into offensive weapons which are integral parts to a potent offense. Let's use Nelson as a receiver exclusively; our offensive line is not going to get better with a tight end blocking, and if we are going to give Trent two seconds to make a read, we might as well give him more check down options.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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If I where Dick i would have done this yesterday. Before the season started there was a lot of talk about our TE’s. As soon as Shouman went down we abandoned the position. Good teams plug different players into positions when it comes to injuries and play the game, or attempt to play their game the same way as before.

Nelson is a big target and should cause favorable match ups. USE HIM.

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Oct 15, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We abandoned it? Nelson has become one of Trent’s favorite targets.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 16, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson has four catches for 26 yards. If he’s one of Trent’s favorites, he doesn’t show it.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 16, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

He’s got under 10 targets on the season, what exactly are you talking about?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 16, 2009 11:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Trent threw to Nelson 3 or 4 times in the first half last week. ESPN targets says 4 for the whole season but that’s wrong. There were a couple balls at his feet or out of his reach vs. the Browns. He was looking Nelson’s way on little dinkity dunks this week. I’m not saying he was the focus of the offense by any stretch of the imagination but the more he checks down, the more he has been looking at Nelson.

Maybe it was only my perception but I thought Nelson got a bunch of looks especially in the first half last week.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 17, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson has 9 targets on the season. Derek Fine has more.

I don’t think 9 targets constitutes one of the QB’s favorite targets. Trent favorite targets are the players that are within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, not anyone specific.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 17, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to gang up

but im not sure what you’re refering to MRW

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 17, 2009 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Fasano? Zach Miller? Yikes.

We all want to see Nelson get more chances, but with Edwards unwilling to throw the ball downfield, what does it matter if he’s running the 2-3 yard routes that Buffalo’s TE’s have become accustomed to? Until Edwards isn’t afraid to throw intermediate passes, Nelson won’t really matter in the passing game.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

unwilling to throw the ball downfield

Unwilling? Come on. Everyone knows that you don’t think much of Edwards. Seems as though you are really trying to beat that point down. I get it. Unwilling? That’s bogus. Unable would be more like it. Sure, he’s missed some shots (the few that he has taken) lately, and he seems to be developing happy feet but I’m surprised that you wouldn’t attribute that to his offensive line, and youth. Where he goes from here is the question. I do not completely dismiss the idea of incorporating the TE, more in to the game plan.

by KTyczka on Oct 15, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, unwilling

Trent just doesn’t want to throw it downfield unless it’s the absolute last resort or a play designed to go deep to Evans/Owens down the sideline.

The few throws he’s tried down the field lately haven’t exactly been in the flow of the O. There is the INT on the deeper pass to TO against Cleveland where he avoided the rushers and was flushed left. That was the right throw to make, but it was a terrible toss, and hardly designed. Same thing against Miami with an INT. He threw a few others, but come on. We’re talking about just a handful of throws downfield each week. I’m not talking about going 30-40 yards downfield, I’m talking about 10-15 yards. He absolutely refuses to make those throws unless they are so wide open any of us could make them.

And I’m not sure how I’m trying to beat this point down? I mention it once here when the issue being discussed is how pointless it is for our TE’s to be running 2-3 yards patterns, and how it doesn’t matter anyhow if Trent is unable to get it to anyone down the field.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone knows that you don’t think much of Edwards.

But nobody would ever say that about me and I agree with Kurupt here. Trent is unwilling to throw it down the field unless it’s his first option. There were several times against the Browns he had the guy down the field in single coverage with a step and didn’t attempt the throw.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 16, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think that Buffalo has the worst offense in the league. The line clearly needs to improve—particularly at RT and LT—but it could be worse. Just ask Oakland fans.

Nelson’s improved blocking has led to more snaps than he might otherwise have gotten. (In what certainly seems to be a lost season, Schouman’s injury does have that as a silver lining.) While the offense has used max protect blocking on more pass downs than I’d have liked it isn’t as though the TEs are being held back to block on even a majority of pass plays.

Both Nelson and Fine, however, have been repeatedly sent on none-yard patterns. I find this infuriating to watch. I also believe that the TEs are being misused on that worthless naked bootleg rollout play that the offense insists on trotting out 3-4 times per game. Buffalo has a guy (Nelson) who is capable of getting behind the LBs and WRs capable of clearing out the DBs.

It’s well past time that the offense let Nelson do what he was drafted to do.

Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner

by Ron From NM on Oct 15, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Both Nelson and Fine, however, have been repeatedly sent on none-yard patterns
It’s well past time that the offense let Nelson do what he was drafted to do.

I totally agree.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 15, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small correction – I never said our offense was the worst just our offensive line

the worst offensive line in the league

I agree with you completely on the patterns, it is baffling and I think its reflective of Jaurons conservatism

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 15, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, I got ripped apart for predicting we would have one of the worst offensive lines in the league this year “kudos” to me.

"You play to win the game, you don't play to just play it" - Herm Edwards

by Jason from OH-IO on Oct 15, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

kudos is deserved then

Amazing how much losing Butler has hurt huh?

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 15, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most people figured this OL would struggle to start the year. It’s been worse than struggling though. All the unforced errors, penalties and injuries weren’t expected though.

There’s still hope for improvement this year though. Unfortunately, it’ll be too little, too late.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those TE numbers are staggering. There have only been four TEs to catch 70 passes in each of the last two seasons.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 15, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow

that stat really puts things in perspective

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 15, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i’m not sure why TE’s haven’t been used more, the create excellent mismatches and can be the most versitile players on the field in some cases, like witten, dallas clark, shannon sharp, wesly walls etc

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 15, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strangely enough, I had an article written about this very subject – the loss of Schouman and its impact. Nice job poz – bumped to the front page.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ha! thanks

sorry to steal the idea! I guess it shows that we are finally coming to appreciate Schouman, eh? You don’t realize what you have till its gone I guess.

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 15, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

May be premature

Schouman was a non-factor last year. He had a couple good games b/f peacing out this year… I’m not ready to say he’s an impact player quite yet.

However, I do miss the guy, he looked like he could have had a big year.

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 15, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

good clairifcation. I just think his emergence was a sign that Trent meant it all off-season when he was pushing for Schou to start. He obviously trusted the guy and being “Captain Checkdown”, he clearly trusted him and is now scrambling for help. The coaches should let Nelson fill that role and It’d be nice if he and Trent were throwing balls after practice. Throwing balls with Lee and TO after practice will probably mean little until Trent has the time from the o-line to hit them.

As my sig now says – with no no-huddle, isn’t it time to think about signing Runyan?

The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker

by poz on Oct 15, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Runyan

What’s the point?

The team is heading nowhere. Why should they spend multiple millions of dollars for a 10 week rental RT? Runyan isn’t signing for peanuts and isn’t going to sign with a contender for the #1 pick in the draft. He’d sign with an actual contender or stay retired, before contemplating a mediocre deal in Buffalo.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We somehow win this week, sign Runyan

And as others have stated, Walker is now a Raider. Poor guy gets screwed by the Bills and now has to endure that nightmare…

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 15, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and its worse than?

The nightmare called the Buffalo Bills perhaps? One crap situation is the same as another.

by JTM1023 on Oct 15, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way we should sign Runyan… at this point we mine as well see what the Meredith kid has. I dont think he would sign here anyways.

"Well, I’m always hungry and it’s time to eat" - Lynch

by bflo on Oct 15, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, the guy is a playmaker!

I mean, out of our team of veteran stars (TO, Evans, Lynch, etc.), Nelson is the player who is featured on the NFL Redzone commercial…haha.

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 15, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha its the only TD we see all week from our offense… too bad it was 6 weeks ago!!!!

"Well, I’m always hungry and it’s time to eat" - Lynch

by bflo on Oct 15, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that play hasn't been seen since

It was a beautifully designed play that no longer seems to be in the playbook. How lovely.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youre right. That play was executed to perfection and it went for 6. So what do we do… scrap it! The decision making for our team makes no sense. :-/

"Well, I’m always hungry and it’s time to eat" - Lynch

by bflo on Oct 15, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doing things that work

proven things that work would be too easy

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Oct 15, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a great play, and it all started with what most good teams do….run to set up the pass. If you go back and watch that series again, a few plays before that, they ran that play as a run with Nelson being the lead blocker. Then same formation but instead of him being a lead blocker, Trent threw him the ball, and Nelson did the rest. Such a shame.

"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy

by howedyhowe on Oct 16, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Radical

This blog should own, manage and coach the Bills. At least we are passionate about it.

by jpheff on Oct 15, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No on the billions

Okay, how about just manage and coach?

by jpheff on Oct 15, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, a tight end threat is needed

but it’s no magic elixir. After all, what have we done with our QBs, WRs, OL, OCs, etc?
Getting a good tight end is just one of many things this team’s offense needs.

by ccthemovieman on Oct 15, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Put him in coach

What better addition to the “youth movement”? Starting rookies was ‘fine" for the OL. Maybe Jauron is worried about upsetting the rhythm of this well oiled machine he calls his offense. The kid is a talent- it can’t hurt!

by fansince60 on Oct 15, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

unless he can throw the ball to himself, it probably won’t matter.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 15, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Who will get him the ball? If Trent can’t get Lee and T.O. the ball, they why would he get it to another playmaker? Unless he hangs out in “Checkdown Town” he won’t get much play. And even that is getting keyed on and defended. Keep losing and draft Bradford…

by JTM1023 on Oct 15, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now thats something we all can agree with

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 15, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trance Stinks!

Do the Bills actually even have a quick slant in the playbook? Oops, I forgot, Trance won’t throw the ball to anyone that isn’t completely stopped more than twice a game. How about a 20 yard out pattern? Oops, my bad, I just remembered that is 15 yards farther than Trance is comfortable throwing but maybe Fitz could do it. How about a 15-20 yarder across the middle? That’s right Trance tried that once last week so the allotment for the year is gone. Believe me, the problem is NOT the tight end situation.

by bflobob8 on Oct 15, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Trance?

ok….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 15, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tight ends are rapidly evolving into offensive weapons

I agree with your point about tight ends… how about Nelson and maybe James Hardy also? big body, big target…

by Buff69King on Oct 15, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I Agree with the point

made about the tight end Nelson being use more often, however this O – Line is a joke it would have been great if we still had Peters @ LT and Butler @ RT but u bills fans ran peters out of town cause he wanted a new contract, AMAZING. But if we can give trent some time to hit Nelson it will make Linebackers cover instead of picking us apart with blitzes

by TheFranchise242000 on Oct 15, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

rec’d

No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.

by sireric on Oct 15, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also rec’d

Peters ran himself out of town

With three years left on a contract that was paying him three mil per season, Peters held out and didn’t show up until the season started. He then played like a 3 mil per season LT. Buffalo tried to negotiate with Peters and supposedly offered him a more than fair contract which he rejected. Peters definitely forced his way out of town. Personally, I don’t hate or even dislike Peters for it, but it’s not the Bills fault that Peters isn’t here anymore. I thought they got fair value for him too.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 15, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WIth the no huddle there is no motion on our offense to open up TE or WR's

Not that the No Huddle limited motion, but it is the only way to get Nelson and it looks like Evans open more. Remember the preseason game with the WR’s split right and Nelson moved from the line to the outside on the left to ensure one-on-one coverage… what happened? Trent threw a perfect pass high to the back shoulder of Nelson for the easy TD… Looked like “wow, I could get use to that all year” We saw a little miss direction in week 1 with Nelson for the TD against New England… Since that time… very little with standard TE routes because little or no motion to move Nelson around or split him out. Dallas Clark and Jason Whitten are constantly being split out from strong initial formations to command LB one on one coverage. Defenses sub player each play for what the offensive players are doing with their personnel. Having a strong or power formation with RB’s and TE’s causes defenses to bring an extra LB or DE in the game, then running passing plays from a shift in formations can really put a defense on it’s heals. It may also open up one-on-one with our WR’s.

Until Trent starts being defenses with a few plays will they settle back a little bit. He had two throws last week that looked really good. The first was the 19 yard pass to Owens. It was a set play and Trent dropped back and made a strong throw down the middle to TO who turned in after the safety broke back. The second is one that I’ve been waiting for him to make all year long… he scrambled a bit to buy an extra second or two then hit Lynch (on the run) breaking behind the LB’s beating single coverage. If Trent could some how settle himself and let more of the plays develop down field it could really open things up for him. Often times he looks downfield for a brief moments sees that there is coverage over the top taking out the WR’s and quickly check’s down because that is the design of the plays. AVP might help take some of those check downs away and make them into longer patterns so it forces trent to make more looks and reads farther down the field and the DBs and Safeties to cover more players down field. It is essential that our OL give Trent a little more time for this… but he also has to create more time for himself and make a play or two on his own.

There… that is how Nelson get’s involved and Trent fixes it. I just pray that our new RT can be a major playmaker and diamond in the rough. We need it so much!!!!!!!!!

by dabillsr1 on Oct 15, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You don't need motion to open TE or WR

Look at this

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d8136f90a/WK-5-Anatomy-Ryan-to-Roddy

you’ll have to cut and paste since I haven’t made a link work yet in Replys.

Replace Gonzalez with Nelson and Roddy White with TO or lee, with two deep safties this is a well designed play. I like the matchup of Nelson against a strong safety and TO or Lee against a FS, well designed play…..would work for us.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 17, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

P.S.

Notice the play action and the pump fake to make sure at least 1 receiver is open?

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 17, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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