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Putting to bed the myth of conditioning related Injury


One of my first thoughts after watching this Bills-Jets game was how almost every vivid injury in the contest was purely accidental and not conditioning at all.  When there is a pile, cleats get caught in the turf, bodies fall all over the place and knees and ankles get bent ways that they shouldn't.  That's football.  I agree with most of you that the Bills' seem cursed in this regard, however you want to explain it, but it is just a statistical anomaly.  Also this week, the mouthpiece of the "Harder Practice and Better Conditioning = Less Injury" crowd became an injury casualty himself and is headed for an MRI table.   The illustrious pro bowl left tackle Jason Peters has succumbed to a leg injury.  

Jason Peters post-game quote -

"I thought all those sprints in the off-season were supposed to protect me from someone rolling up on my leg.  Guess that's not true.  I think I'll go back to the 'donuts on the couch' conditioning program."

I'm sure the Bills conditioning staff is at least as proficient as almost any in the NFL.  We also have one of the best on-field post-injury personnel staff in the business.  I think it's time to lay off those guys behind the scenes who are just doing their jobs to feed their families and keep the focus on those who affect the outcome of games.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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LOL – got a link to the quote?

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 19, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I made it up :)

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to say…Peters would be doing himself no service to second-guess the Eagles’ coaching staff.

Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 19, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You cheeky bastard. :-)

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 21, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not sure

how this would support your case if you’re making things up!
I’m not really sure how you qualify one teams approach to conditioning and practicing to other teams. Unless the outliers have totally different practices and conditioning methods I don’t know how you can make an educated guess.

by gatornation on Oct 19, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That’s the argument that’s made – “The Bills have a bad conditioning program therefore we get injured more often”. I just think it’s silly. The Peters’ injury is real. I just made up a funny quote because on more than one occasion Peters’ quote about how the Eagles off season program was much more intense than the Bills’ came up. Now he’s in the same place as everyone else – injured on a play where a guy rolled up on his legs, just like most of the Bills injuries over the past few years. Again, the quote is made up, the injury was real.

It just bothers me that every few weeks people say the Bills are too soft and with better strength and conditioning coaches all of these injuries would go away. I think they’re barking up the wrong tree, especially when there are much higher paid gentlemen to point a finger at. These injuries just happen, it has nothing to do with these guys time in (and not in) the weight room or running sprints on the field.

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AP had his ankle rolled farily significantly and he came back in the game the next series. You don’t think conditioning helped a tiny bit?

Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 19, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Each player is different

Some were born with rubber bands for ligaments. The one the Bills sign seem to have ones made of string. There’s not much one way or the other for the Bills to do anything about or know short of MRI’s before bringing a player in.

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe if it was the first year but after three years of injury ravaged years I’d say that there is a problem somewhere. It might not all be poor conditioning, it might be also be improper technique, poor blocking schemes, poor recognition, etc

One thing is certain, we’ve had way too many injuries the past three years to just be an omen of bad luck.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 19, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe not being aggressive enough?

We kind of read and react instead of forcing teams to do what we want them to do.

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Oct 19, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the things that paractice does help is how to roll with these injuries. Ligament injuries can be prevented by having strong muscles to support them, muscles themselves by properly warming them up before practise and games. Even broken bone injuries can be limited if the body knows how to react to impacts.
The best conditioning programmes will not stop injuries happening, but they can reduce the numbers and speed up recovery times.

We as fans expect the medical side of our team coaching staff to be fully aware of all the lastest techniques of training and prevention but this is rarely the case. Everyone pick and choses the things they like and supports their own base ideas. I wonder if many Strength and Conditioning coaches spend time with teams from other contact sports or in other nations.A few weeks observing how an Ice Hockey or Rugby or Aussie Rules Football may revel new ways of preparing players.

The number of injuries the Bills players have suffered over the last few years cannot be put down as a statistically anomoly nor is there an easy or straight forward answer but sometimes seeing things from a different perspective can show a coach a different direction in the way things are done.

The past is fixed, the future is unknown, try dealing with the present!

by gregeng on Oct 19, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Putting it to bed?

I don’t think so

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 19, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

For those interested heres an injury list that has I-Rs:
http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nfl/injury/injuries.html&t=0

anyway to the OP: I got a chuckle out of the “quote” but what exactly are you arguing here? That it’s luck/fate/destiny that the Bills keep getting injured? It could be but some people feel there is a common thread of injury riddled seasons that has taken place in recent years. There probably is truth in what your saying, but I can see the criticism and no-one in the Bills organization should be exempt from it. Except the midget on the medical staff, because he is awesome.

But seriously if the team were really fit how do you know they would be in the same position that injured them? Or if they were doughboys they would be pancaked every play, but wouldn’t trip over each others feet and injure themselves either. So fitness plays a part and terrible terrible luck plays a part two (which is one thing the bills have in abundance.)

This space held in honor of Robert Royal known to his friends as "Sweet Cream Style Corn" March 11 2006- February 26, 2009

by pasaluki on Oct 19, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That is my argument. Our team is as fit as any in the NFL. It’s probably their footwork / team coordination that might be the issue. All I was trying to say, it happens to every team. It happened to Peters and Kris Jenkins this week. These injuries seem to happen more to younger teams with newer coaching staffs. It does not have to do with conditioning, it does have something to do with trust and knowledge of the plays. Our guys are fit, you’ve seen them without their shirts. We have also seen them look pathetic on the field. When you have a higher percentage of broken plays, I think that leads to injuries. I believe that pretty much correlates the higher number of injuries to the Bills. No confidence in the playbook leads to an “everyone for themselves” approach, which leads to guys running one another over.

Also, the Bills play a defensive scheme which includes “swarming to the ball”, leading to a pile of defenders on every play, increasing the risk of injury. I just think there are a ton of other substantial reasons before you get to conditioning. The guys are ready to play, at least fitness wise, when September rolls around. Our offensive plan was the opposite of ready to go, which very much put our offensive personnel at risk of injury, as well as the o-line’s lack of experience. We’re probably lucky(maybe?) none of the big boys rolled up on Edwards’ leg or crushed his foot in the first few games. Do you see what I’m getting at? Blame Jauron, blame Perry Fewell or Alex Van Pelt or the assistant coaches. The trainers and strength guys sre small fires who I’m sure are keeping the guys ready, as best as possible, in-season. As far as making the players stronger and all that, I think that’s up to the players in the off-season to have personal trainers and all that to stay healthy. I’m not sure how many guys participate in the optional strength program.

As bad as our football team is, and as borderline as some of the talent on the roster is, maybe the Bills have more injuries simply because the team is disorganized and nobody trusts in the systems in place.

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, the Bills play a defensive scheme which includes "swarming to the ball", leading to a pile of defenders on every play, increasing the risk of injury.

So your saying that maybe the NFL should institute a “no swarming” rule???

Look… In the last 3 plus years of injuries, there has only been one constant, other than injuries themselves. Players have changed, blowing your rubber band/string hypothesis away, but the coaching staff, including Allaire, is the same… At some point, ya gotta say….
DING-DING….

by Cinga on Oct 19, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was Allaire in Chicago with Jauron? Those Jauron teams had the same issues. To say the Bills current plight is in part due to Allaire is like canning the third base coach in baseball. It’s called scapegoating. I’m saying if it’s anybody’s fault it’s that there is something lacking in our coaching staff in general, not the strength coach in particular. He’ll probably be gone at the end of the year, anyways, but you really think firing him would make the injuries go away? Then fire him, and wonder why players are still getting injured.

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious to know...

What’s our average height/weight and what are we relative to the rest of the NFL, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

by sabre74kkn on Oct 19, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At least somebody picked up where I was going with this.

I’m not sure about that, those stats are published elsewhere. From plain observation, I’m sure our linebackers are quite a bit lighter and smaller (not necessarily faster) as a whole, especially with Mitchell on IR. Our defensive tackles aren’t of the nose tackle type, so they are a little smaller. defensive backs are about league average, I would assume. I’m not going to even fathom the offensive stats. I know prior to this year, we had the biggest, heaviest, tallest o-line.

I think bad teams get more injuries than good teams and it has nothing to do with their strength coach.

by syrbillsfan on Oct 19, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK then....

Since it has

nothing to do with their strength coach.
, let’s see if the Chicago Bears would like to make a trade…
Give us back, Rusty Jones, and they can have Allaire (heck, I’d throw in a Jauron too)….
Bears currently have 3 players on IR, and while I’d have to double check, I don’t believe the Bills ever had more than a hand full, during Rusty’s 19 year tour with the Bills… Which ended btw, just about the time all these injuries started…
Coincidence????

by Cinga on Oct 19, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coincidence....or are there larger forces at work here? Would that be stupidity or gravity????

Got to be gravity :-)

Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes

by Joe P. on Oct 19, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah.....Not Gravity...

Stupidity for not retaining Jones…

by Cinga on Oct 19, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it’s a combination of both, but if you draft smaller, weaker players to begin with, that probably puts you behind the 8-ball already. Then throw in the fact that these players may (hypothetically speaking) not get the proper conditioning or strength training that could benefit them most, then you have a potentially tough situation where players who aren’t physically built to withstand the rigors of an NFL season aren’t given the proper conditioning to fit their mold and the team’s defensive/offensive strategy (running vs. passing, blitzing vs. coverage, for example) and I think we’re in the midst of all that now.

Ellison is undersized and while in position always a step slow. He’s a prime example of what’s wrong with this franchise. Good, but not good enough to be great.

by sabre74kkn on Oct 19, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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