Dick Jauron: What a Leader
I know I'll get bashed if I write anything pro-Dick Jauron, but I have no issues defending this man. Regardless of what you think of Jauron, one thing you can never say is that he is not a great leader. What is leadership? Defined by Webster:
"process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task"
Anyone who is a coach, and is in it for the right reasons, knows the right reason is to accomplish goals as a team. It's not for individual success to gain in their profession, or any other reason, but simply to accomplish the goals they set out. Each coach will have different ways of motivating his players, each coach has unique personalities, and each coach is shaped by their experiences as a player/coach, mentors and their overall coaching/teaching philosophy.
I have never seen Dick Jauron lose a football team. In fact, under the most dire of circumstances, I see Dick Jauron is capable of rallying his team to play at their highest of levels, with energy and passion. Again, I'm not talking about scheming, game management, or x's and o's, I'm talking simply about leading a team to unite, to play to their potential, and to never quit on the overall goal: to accomplish a common task as a TEAM.
I thought Ralph Wilson's quotes today in the Associated Press were very fitting, and something all of us should take stock in during these turbulent times as a Bills fan:
"The only stat that matters is the `W,"’ Wilson said. "All things considered, for a lot of the heat that our coaches have been taking, guys getting injured, adversity comes in a variety of ways. It’s how you respond to it. And we did a phenomenal job of following coach Jauron’s lead by staying poised and composed."
For all of us, in our life, we should be lucky if we can find ways to stay as poised and persistent as Jauron has through all the billboards, losses, and fan anarchy. We live in a media world that demands instant gratification. It's part of the deal, and Jauron has never shied away from that. But he has also never handled himself with anything other than class and integrity, and I think that is to be commended. (I take that back. I know that is to be commended.) When we all go through struggles in our personal lives with family and at work, it's often easy to throw our hands up in the air and say the hell with it when times become too tough.
When Trent Edwards left the Jets game and the other injuries kept piling up, as a fan I'm sure many of you were saying "seriously, what else can go wrong?" You don't think that crossed Jauron's mind as well? When Lindell missed the kick in regulation many of you, alongside most of the nation, said "typical Bills, just can't pull through." However, what I saw yesterday despite the ugliness of the win was a team reflecting their coach. Just as we reflect our parents and our mentors that shape our lives, the Bills' players reflected Jauron. When Edwards walked off, I saw Evans going up to Ryan Fitzpatrick and giving him words of encouragement in that dire situation. I saw Eric Wood picking our running backs up off of the turf, and he was quick to stand up for his QB when they got hit. I saw Paul Posluszny play with pride and passion that diffused throughout the entire defense.
People get perplexed when Dick Jauron isn't animated on game day. That's because he understands the preparation was done before the game. In the heat of the battle, his job is to stay poised, keep his thoughts clear, and be the leader. I hate when people say "I don't care if the team loves Dick Jauron, they stink and he doesn't show emotion and he's too soft on these guys." I believe that is very much the wrong take. If you think another coach's scheme is better... fine. If you think another coach could teach football better... fine. But if you think for one second anyone could motivate or lead better, you are sorely mistaken.
While no one knows where this season will go next, the one thing I know is that a Jauron-led football team will never give up. Michael Lombardi named Dick Jauron coach of the week in his Monday Tavern Column.
He’s been very professional dealing with the uncertainty of his position, and his players have played hard for him in every game. They’re not the most talented team in the NFL, but yesterday they got a win against the reeling Jets. Wins will be hard to come by for Jauron the remainder of the season, but getting his team to play hard won’t be a difficult challenge.
If you think firing Jauron, and letting Bobby April or Perry Fewell run this team is a good idea, you are again sorely mistaken. Jauron will face the storm of adversity head on, like a true warrior, and continue to rally the troops until Ralph is forced to make a move. Until that day, Jauron will instill hope to do what Calvin Coolidge so eloquently said is the only thing one can possibly do when facing adversity... "Press On."
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race"
So, while many of you have given up hope on this season, I still have some, and the only reason there is any left is because of the Bills' head coach. The Bills' misfortunes are an organizational problem, not a HC problem. The problems lie much deeper, and some have been well-documented here at Rumblings. The HC takes the heat, and Jauron understands that. So shoot me for yesterday, feeling good for Jauron after all the criticism he has been taking. I tipped a few back for Dick, as he looks like he hasn't slept in weeks, and I guarantee you know one is working harder to try and make this team a success THIS season, than Dick Jauron.
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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i dont hate dick the man
but his coaching and game planning leaves much to be desired. he would be (in my opinion) a very good D coord. but he wont stay with the bills at a lesser position i dont think.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Oct 20, 2009 12:16 AM EDT reply actions
Isn’t most of that game planning on the assistants?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah I don't buy that
The buck stops at the top. Hc dictates and approves whatever decisions and plans the asst come up with.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Oct 20, 2009 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not disagreeing with you but we’ve heard time and time again that Jauron lets his coaches coach. I think Brian’s said before that the Tampa 2 defense is Fewell’s not Jauron’s. Correct me if I’m wrong Brian.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that cut-and-dry. When Jauron came to Buffalo, he inherited the 4-3 that Jerry Gray ran under Mike Mularkey. He decided to preserve that by changing it schematically to a Tampa 2, given the success it had had in the league to that point. Jauron is not a Tampa 2 disciple, but likes the principles of the defense, and thus brought in a coach more versed in the scheme – i.e. Fewell – to run it.
As years have gone by, many of those principles have stayed – particularly coverage schemes – but they’ve tweaked it to Jauron’s liking personnel-wise. I speak specifically of Marcus Stroud, who is not ideal to a traditional Tampa 2 scheme, as he’s a better two-gap defender than he is one-gap or three-gap. But these are small tweaks.
Yes, Jauron lets his coaches coach, but ultimately he has final say on game plans and in-game decisions.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This post quite accurately sums up what I think of Jauron. That’s why he would make a fantastic Assistant HC and why his coordinator days were quite successful. He’s a great guy, a good motivator and he will never let you get down on yourself for a mistake. With slightly better coaching abilities game-wise, he would be a monster to deal with for opposing squads. Unfortunately he’s just not cut out to be an HC in the league.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
With slightly better
C’mon, are you serious? slightly?
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
OK fine, immensely.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 20, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Jauron is classy and professional
Nobody would question that. And if they do, they are wrong.
But if his goal is to keep the team united in order to accomplish a goal (winning), then he is doing a pretty poor job. So he can keep the team united, which is admirable, but he can’t lead them to what matters most. Wins. You can use all the superlatives in the world to describe Jauron as a man, but as a head coach, he just hasn’t gotten the job done. Don’t you think these players have some pride and that’s why they were playing hard and working to get a win yesterday?
Just as we reflect our parents and our mentors that shape our lives, the Bills’ players reflected Jauron. When Edwards walked off I saw Evans going up to Fitzpatrick and giving him words of encouragement in that dire situation. I saw Eric Wood picking up our RB’s off the turf, and quick to stand up for his QB when they got hit. I saw Paul Posluszny play with pride and passion that diffused throughout the entire defense.
I’m sorry, but no head coach deserves any credit for this. Let’s say Jauron had been fired last week, do you really think that in the same situation Evans wouldn’t have gone up to Fitz to make sure he’s ready? You don’t think Wood would be picking up the RB’s? And Poz would play any differently? Come on. That’s what these players do. They are leaders and they were just doing what they usually do. They want to win and those characteristics and actions support that. It’s not because they reflect Jauron. When the team has come out flat and played listless football, I suppose they weren’t reflecting Jauron at that time?
The Bills misfortunes are an organizational problem, not a HC problem.
No. It’s an organizational problem and a Head Coach problem. There have been too many blunders, game/time mismanagement, poor schemes, poor decisions, blah blah blah to say there isn’t a HC problem. The proof is in the mediocre, tasteless pudding.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 20, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
very well said
plus I’d add…
demands instant gratificationMarv, c’mon man, we’ve been patient for over 3 years now. I would hardly call that demanding instant gratification
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
When I started reading this on the front page, I said to myself, “I hope K has already posted a comment on this. He’ll sum up my thoughts.” Lo and behold, you didn’t disappoint me.
No one’s doubting how good of a guy Jauron is or whether he has the players support or not. He clearly has that, and that is admirable. But, ultimately…
“process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task”
As Webster’s definition points out, leaders produce results…or in this case, “accomplishments.” Leaders are results-driven. And if we’re defining “accomplishment” as a team not giving up or Jauron not losing the team a la Mangini, then we have certainly set the bar far too low.
Look. He's a 3rd round draft pick from Stanford and he throws like one. He's a bumpkin. Pass.
Let’s say Jauron had been fired last week, do you really think that in the same situation Evans wouldn’t have gone up to Fitz to make sure he’s ready? You don’t think Wood would be picking up the RB’s? And Poz would play any differently?
Wouldn’t they still be Jauron guys and have Jauron’s influence after he is fired? Granted the reason a lot of those players are on this team is because of that leadership implied by them going up to a teammate and picking him up mentally or physically.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
but I was trying to make the point that these guys would have done the things they did regardless of who the head coach was. At this time next year, when a new coach and regime has its hold on the players, I’d expect them to do the same exact thing.
I just find it hard to believe high character players who give their heart and soul to get wins would not show the same leadership traits they show now under another coach.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
They would. You’re exactly right. But those guys are here, moreso Poz and Wood, because of Jauron, right?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
But it's not like other teams wouldn't want these guys
or wouldn’t have drafted them in Buffalo didn’t.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You’re right on that. You and I both know Jauron puts a priority on that mentality, though.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
You really
think T.O. would act this way in Dallas if they were 1-4? Or in Philly? Come on, that’s ludicrous. Jauron has complete control of all his players, and how players react in times of adversity is a reflection of the inner-most character, which is a reflection of their leader. A HC demands that players act a certain way, and that is no more evident than in every player on the Bills.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
Sorry Marv...TO is behaving for one reason. His next contract.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
Completely agree. If there’s one thing Jauron is not directly responsible for, it’s Terrell Owens’ behavior. No man can lay claim to that aside from Mr. Owens himself.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree
Has nothing to do with his coach, his QB, his surroundings, etc. It’s all about getting that next deal.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
wow
I totally disagree. I believe it is a complete reflection of the HC. Couldn’t disagree more.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
That’s not to say Owens doesn’t respect Jauron. There’s a strong chance he does. But let’s not pretend that that respect, if it exists, is the motivating factor for Owens’ good behavior.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't
I don’t think TO gives a crap about Jauron personally. He’s all about being a good teammate, doing what he can to win and hopefully doing enough for that next contract.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Actually I think T.O. would
he knows exactly where he is in his career: full survival-mode. He may be baby but he’s doing what’s best for him: trying to be a team player. He knows that if he misbehaves, his career is over. Particularly with the cement blocks he’s been wearing as gloves.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Not Gonna Bash you Marv.
But feel the need to hit on a few points.
I know I’ll get bashed if I write anything pro-Jauron, but I have no issues defending this man. Regardless of whatever you think of Dick Jauron, one thing you can never say is that he is not a great leader. What is leadership? Defined by Webster:
“process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task”Anyone who is a coach, and is in it for the right reasons, knows the right reason is to accomplish goals as a team. It’s not for individual success to gain in their profession, or any other reason, but simply to accomplish the goals they set out. Each coach will have different ways of motivating his players, each coach has unique personalities, and each coach is shaped by their experiences as a player/coach, mentors and their overall coaching/teaching philosophy.
There is a difference between a good leader and a good head coach.
There are 3 leaders on a NFL coaching staff.
HC, OC, and DC.
I think Jauron would be a fine DC.
I think he is a lousy HC because he knows zilch about offense.
Definately not enough to hire a quality OC.
And definately not enough to help his OC hire.
He has not woked with an offensive guru that has been able to give him enough knowledge to be a good HC,
When Lindell missed the kick in regulation many of you, including most of the nation said “typical Bills, just can’t pull through.” However, what I saw yesterday despite the ugliness of the win was a team reflecting their coach.
When Lindell mised that field goal, I was thinking why did they let 30+ seconds tick off the clock and not try to get closer.
I was asking myself, why did they run the power pitch to Marshawn to the right AGAIN!, when they used a play to try to get closer.
I asked myself why did they telegraph the power pitch to the defense by lining up the fullback on the side they ran it each time.
I asked myself why they didn’t have a counter play to the weakside that was used once so the defense couldn’t just play the power pitch.
I asked myself why Jauron couldn’t recognize what I did and relay it to AVP so he could make adjustments.
I think most of us here will agree Jauron is a class act.
Heck I even felt sorry for him when he was asked today about the Billboard.
But he just does not know enough about offense to be a good Headcoach.
I think he is best at leading a defense, until he can work with someone who could really help him learn about offense, and have enough knowledge to hire a quality OC.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 2:39 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I asked myself why did they telegraph the power pitch to the defense by lining up the fullback on the side they ran it each time.
Plays like that are man vs. man. Telegraphing isn’t the issue. Your guy needs to be better than their guy. Lynch just didn’t have the speed to take it to the outside but the Bills staff saw something on film that led them to believe that would work this week. They tried it several times with both RBs.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Lynch didn't have a chance on those
Had nothing to do with speed. When the D had a good idea of what was coming and didn’t have to fight through tough blocking, it wasn’t exactly tough to shut down.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
and didn’t have to fight through tough blocking
That is man on man, hat on hat, your guy has to win that battle. Good teams beat you even when you know it’s coming.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
And we're a team starting 3.5 rookies on the OL.
You can’t count on our guys to win that battle handily.
by twoeightnine on Oct 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
man to man yes
but if they defense knows what is coming they will be to the point of attack before that lineman will, giving the defense the advantage. not only that, but more of the defensive players will be at the point of attack.
by gatornation on Oct 20, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I’m trying to say though. The team was lined up with the fullback to the right, sure. But the Jets couldn’t sell out to the right. The Bills had enough lead blockers for every defender to have a guy blocking him except maybe one guy that Lynch was supposed to outrun or run over in the secondary on the edge. Someone missed a block or couldn’t get out to his block quickly enough.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what happens when a defense knows what is coming.
couldn’t get out to his block quickly enough.
Because the D was flowing to the point of attack at the snap of the ball.
The weakside was wide open from overpursuit if AVP called a counter to the weakside.
He should have called a counter to the weakside after the 2nd or 3rd run like that didn’t work just to keep the defense honest.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
come on....or should I say, I get your point
they had time, and could have done something to get just five yards closer….
but, remember last year when they got cute against the Jets in the final seconds? I guess that could have been in the back of Jauron and AVPs mind….they were close enough for a field with a QB that is questionable. Plus, they did just beforehand have what should have been called a catch to get them in a goal-to-go situation, so who knows
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 20, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Woah woah woah. I never said they shouldn;t have tried to get closer. I was talking about the success of one type of play, not when it was called.
Killa – if you look at that Evans catch objectively he was bobbling it. As soon as I saw the replay his right hand clearly came off the ball after the two feet were in bounds. By the time he tucked it away he had touched down out of bounds.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
why on earth would we try that?
we’re not a good team, and our strength certainly isn’t the o-line. In that context, why would you ever go with “us vs. you, let’s go, man on man” especially versus a team like the jets, who have bloodthirsty thugs (that’s a compliment) on defense.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Exactly
When you know the play that’s coming, the linebackers will get a jump toward the point of attack, The way you make them pay for over pursuit, is run a counter to the other side out of the same look.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with a lot of that
The Bills backed into that win, no doubt about it. 6 INT’s, the Jets committing 14 penalties, not even getting off a gamewinning field goal attempt, etc. The Bills didn’t so much go win it as much as the Jets went and lost it. Yeah, the Bills made the winning FG and picked up the first downs they needed, but if the Jets hadn’t shot themselves in the foot dozens of times earlier in the game, do they even get the chance?
The Bills again butchered the end of regulation. Jauron might be the only HC in the league who settles for 45+ yard field goals in a windy Meadowlands.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
i was actually going to write up a post
about how impressed I was that, despite all our talk during the week about how this team lacks passion and how its not enough for a team to like its coach, if you watched the Jets game you can not deny that it looked like every single player out there looked like he was playing 120% for their coach.
From Terrence McGee running down plays, to Poz getting on the field at probably 80% and making big tackles and a pick, to Byrd flying all over the field, Marcus Stroud disrupting the backfield, Lee Evans and TO fighting for yards when they got the ball and Freddy and Marshawn fighting for yards – heck, even the relatively (for us) mistake free play of the o-line, it seemed to me that this team laid it on the line for Jauron. It shows you that the loyalty he engenders in his players does translate into action. Hopefully they keep it up. Even Trent Edwards looked like he was playing better for his coach.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
Yeah Poz
D looked good,
O looked not so good except for the TD pass to Evans and a few runs.
Offensive playcalling was horrific and predictible,
Surprised we won.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
at least we threw downfield. Our running game gets stuffed on important downs. Our rookie guards and Hang are letting us down in that department. You cant blame coaching. There were a bunch of 3rd and shorts during hwich I would have been mad at the offense if they had thrown. They were running it up the gut and getting stuffed. But htey were the right playcalls. Thats on the line.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
I don't think so.
The Power pitch to marshawn to the outside was run a bunch of times.
It worked the first couple. But the telegraphed to the defense each time it was run by what side the fullback was on. There was not 1 counter away from the fullback to keep the defense honest.
Predictiable as usual.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
what really bothered me
was how – and we’ve seen this for a few seasons now with Jauron no matter who the coordinator is – when we get into a 1 and 10 situation that clearly is in a passing situation we always, and I mean ALWAYS, when we pass on 1st and its incomplete we no matter what run on 2nd and 10 and then pass again on 3rd. In passing situations the call is pass, run, pass every time. I would love once to see pass pass pass or run pass pass or pass pass run draw.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
or pass pass run draw.
I’d like to see a good draw with the QB under center, there hasn’t been 1 this year with the QB under center. Only out of the shotgun.
Dallas took Julius Peppers out of the game running draws at his B gap, lets hope these coaches get a clue and look at that film and run a few draws at him to keep the pressure off, but I’m not holding my breath.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions
we have the running backs to do it too
especially if we run a formation with QB under center and Fred and Marshawn split behind him.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
If they ever use the Pro Set formation with QB under center.
I’ll start thinking the coaching staff is getting a clue.
It’s the best formation for Marshawn and Fred being on the field at the same time and keepin defenses off balance and playing honest.
You can misdirection out of this formation with success.
You can quick pitch either side.
You can fake the blast then go downfield on playaction or pass to the outside.
You can run sweeps with Marshawn blocking for fred..
You can run screens where defenses can’t key to one side.
I haven’t seen the Bills use the pro set formation since Thurman was here.
But we sure have the players to use it now if the coaching staff can figure it out.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions
i totally agree
I wrote in a fanpost how the Pro Set should be a staple of this offense. I agree with all your reasons and would add that out of the Pro Set on third downs we can put in TO Lee and Nelson or Reed and keep both Fred and Marshawn in to act as blockers to help out our porous offensive line giving Trent or Fitzy an extra barrier on either side of him. By leaving them back there as receiving, running or blocking threats it can really help diversify the offense.
Good discussion we got going here Buffalo Kid. A pro set accomplishes the task of getitng our best playmakers all on the field and offering maximum play options to keep a defense guessing.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
When we played the Dolphins
they ran all their misdirection plays out of the pro set or wildcat
With great success I might add.
Misdirection with 2 RBs is the perfect way to make an agressive front 7 pay.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
This team could run a lot of things
if it had any imagination and better coaching.
This offense shows no signs of imagination or creativity. Heck, we don’t even see trick plays.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
so the answer now is trick plays??? Come on teh answer on offense is not have both of your starting T’s going down and attempting to protect teh young and inexperienced group.
by Honestabe75 on Oct 20, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh, no
I’m talking about the lack of creativity in this offense. If we run 20 trick plays a game, I’m sure it’ll do us no good. But it would be nice to deviate from the same tired plays every now and then wouldn’t it?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I'm pretty sure the slant was a trick play.
by twoeightnine on Oct 20, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, that is true
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
So the reverse’s to TO and the throw back on the Kick off and teh fake FG and punt aren’t trick plays? I think your grasping here unless there is something else you are thinking of. A flea flicker is out of the question because of our pass protection.
by Honestabe75 on Oct 20, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
A reverse is not a trick play
it’s a misdirection.
The others were on special teams.
I’m talking about the offense, and I’m not grasping and straws here. Prove to me that this offense has shown a lick of creativity or imagination since week 1.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You wouldn’t be complaining about a lack of creativity if this offense was successful. The most successful offenses are the ones that can do what they want without relying on creativity. How creative is the bubble screen the Pats have run over and over and over for almost a decade now? Not very, but it works time and again. Or the dump off to Kevin Faulk in the flat?
If the Bills execute, they score points. Between the penalties and turnovers, we’ve lost a lot of opportunities, but the meat is there. The few slants we tried earlier in the year were met with horrid results, tried it again on Sunday, 37 yd TD to Evans. I think you’re mistaking “creativity” with “execution”. The funny thing is, from the Turk Fairchild days, the offense was said to be overcomplicated yet looked like they ran the same play time and again. This year, we’re supposedly seeing a “simpler” offense, but there seems to be a lot more variety to the play calling, especially an increase in screens and slants from the 0 we saw for years, but terrible execution by the players on the field. The Bills problem this year, for the most part, is not with the playcalling. In general it is good, some situations we could hope for something a little more risky, but would you rather turnover the ball on downs, or risk another Losman v Jets incident?
by syrbillsfan on Oct 20, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
But the offense isn't successful
Isn’t that the point? This offense can’t get the job done as it is, so why not try something different?
It’s still predictable and easy to defend. I’m just talking about trying something that isn’t so straightforward.
By the way, the Pats try a trick play every now and then. See the flea flicker the other day? They are so good they don’t need to run plays like that though, and don’t have to be super creative in terms of play design because of talent. We don’t have that talent or ability to execute like them, so play design means a lot. I want misdirection and other plays designed to confuse a defense.
Whatever happened to the screen pass in our offense??
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Creative does not equal trick plays. Creativity doesn’t mean we need to be completely out of the box or draft the next Wild Cat.
That Pats offense is creative. It’s the epitome of creativity. That whole spread the offense way out (and as a result, the defense) with 4 or 5 wide outs, and then throwing 2-3 yard bubble screens, outs, slants, and crossing patterns with the intent of gaining yards after catch is creative. They realized they are not a run first team and that they have wide receivers with the skill set to run that offense. Creativity is seeing your weaknesses, masking those weaknesses, and exploiting your opponents weaknesses. That’s what that whole “long hand-off is.”
How many times have we been expecting the Pats offense to come out slinging it and they end up lining running the ball 90% of their first drive or vice versa? They do something, and they do something, and they do something until you’re certain they’re going to do that thing again….and then they do something completely different. That is creative.
Look. He's a 3rd round draft pick from Stanford and he throws like one. He's a bumpkin. Pass.
I’m not saying creative needs to be trick plays. All I said, and it was just a minor point, is that it’d be nice to see a trick play every now and then just to switch things up and trying something different.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
this is the only time i've ever seen a thread in which creative playcalling is openly mocked
do some really think that being predictable on offense is good?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Apparently
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You are right
The Patriots shotgun spread is very creative.
WE DON’T HAVE THE TACKLES TO REPLICATE IT!
We need to play to our strengths, and I have zero creativity in playcalling for the talent we have.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
K, that was NOT a flea flicker.
That was a pitch back.
The 90’s Bills were the only pro team I’ve ever seen execute the real flea flicker. It starts with a power pitch where the RB laterals to a reversing WR who then laterals it to the QB once he gets over to the other side of the field and the QB bombs it.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 20, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't the both be "flea flickers"?
After the snap the quarterback hands off or laterals the football to a running back (or another player on his team), who then runs towards or parallel to the line of scrimmage. Before the running back crosses the line of scrimmage, he laterals the football back to the quarterback, who then looks for an eligible receiver down field to throw a pass to.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I guess, but...
Wiki? I want to see the sources!! : )
Nah, honestly, after seeing Thurman, Andre and Jimbo execute, I only call that play “the flea flicker” and nothing else.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 20, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This year they have run a few successful screens. More than they had for years and it’s not even October. Screens don’t work if your guys over the top aren’t getting thrown to / catching balls thrown their way. We do have the talent, I just don’t know if they’ll ever get over the hump to find the success they need. It’s really only a couple more big plays a game that they need to pull some of these games out. It’s quite depressing.
I wasn’t saying we don’t need to change things up a little. I think the “Trips” formation would work wonders here, especially if TO and Evans are on the same side of the field. That formation alone could do some damage. You line up TO, Evans, and say Reed to the left and line up Freddy and Lynch in the backfield, some good things could happen, especially if the play is designed to go to the opposite side to Lynch or Jackson. The routes could be endless. The trips formation does a lot of good things for a lot of NFL teams. I don’t think it exists in Schonerts left over playbook.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
and it’s not even October.
I have bad news man. It’s almost November.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
When was the last successful screen?
Opening night, right?
Where have they gone?
You can’t run a trips to one side with 2 RB’s. Nobody would be covering up the tackle on the opposite side. You can run trips with one back…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Oops. I guess that’s why they don’t do that :)
by syrbillsfan on Oct 22, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pro Set would make me giddy.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 20, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
i <3 the Pro Set. I want to see Trent under center, and both Marshawn and Freddy raring to go!
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 20, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
On 2nd and 10 the “right” play call is a run. That way you have a 3rd and not as long than if you throw an incomplete pass. Third and 8 is better than 3rd and ten which is the whole rationale behind it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
thats not the point
and I disagree.
The point is not whether its the right call is if its the right call to do it every single time.
And I totally disagree with you. I would wager the gain – loss of running for two yards and then throwing a 3rd and 8 instead of a 3 and 10 once is not better than getting an additional attempt to throw the ball.
Also, you can run on first if you’d like and maybe again on second. Running the ball on 1st and goal from the 1 is the “right” call but it doesnt mean you do it every time. Sometimes you play action to your tight end or roll out your QB.
I’d also say that if you run on first and give your QB two back to back throws he is more likely to adjust better between the throws and make sharper adjustments.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
I put “right” in quotes for a reason. It’s not that you should do it every time. It’s just what a lot of coaches do. You want to shorten the distance for third down. It’s just like on 2nd and 20 you don’t go for the whole 20 necessarily you try to get half of it back to set yourself up for 3rd down. Does that mean you can’t take a deep shot? Nah. Just saying it’s not a dumb move.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Then you are just as predictable as the Bills O
Doing that every single time on 2nd and 10 after an incompletion is not the right call. It’s too predictable.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Not every time. But I don’t have a problem with them running the ball on most any down when Lynch and Fred are in the backfield with Fitz.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Our running game gets stuffed on important downs.
Only because the coaching staff telegraphs the plays by never using counter plays to keep the defense honest.
On the power pitch, they ran it to the side the fullback was lined up on EVERY TIME!
Smart players and coaches pick up on that and will cheat to that side until you burn them on the other side.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
i can agree with that
but at some point it has to be on the oline. We should be able to impose our will and get short downs. Great teams demoralize their opponent by letting them know what they are doing and doing it anyway.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
That was yesterday's NFL.
In this era if you are 100% sure what is coming, you can stop it unless your defense is gassed from being on the field too long.
You impose your will in today’s game by smart playcalling to dictate how they have to play you.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe your right
Its just interesting thta Schonert was fired for having too many play calls and now reports are our problem is our play book is too predictable and simple. It seems like Jauron wants it that way, and maybe forcing his coordinators hands. If they dont oblige, they are fired
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
When Schonert was fired.
I was a little bit miffed by him saying Jauron wants a pop warner offense.
But now I think he might be right.
Bill Parcells is a guy from what I have seen who likes 20-25 plays a game.
But he will run those plays out of several formations.
He will have some misdirection, some playaction, some draws, and some short middle and deep passes, but will run each play out of different formations.
The area you are looking to attack is the same, only the formation you attack it with is different to keep defenses guessing.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 20, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
On the 3rd and short when we got the second field goal the fullback ran right while the run went left. The fullback wasn’t the only predictor.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
On the power pitch in question before the FG attempt, Lynch ran to the side AWAY from the fullback. He ran behind and to the right of the tight end. The TE took out a guy coming from the left behind the O-Line. The defender in front of Lynch shed his block and filled the hole.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 20, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
O could have been a problem, being predictable that is, after Edwards left…I know history doesn’t support that, but I think Edwards was working a different plan
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 20, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
whre was that 120%
in the browns game?
in the miami game?
in the NO game?
Jauron’s job was as much on the line then so where was that super duper extra effort you are inferring to?
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
Great point about McGee.
I didn’t even think of it but McGee ran down a guy who was clearly going to take it inside the 10 yard line from all the way across the field. It was downright Beebe-esque to chase down Washington.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they were laying it on the line for....themselves and each other?
Many of these guys are fighting for their jobs too….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Great point.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
K
you always say how bad this team is and then when Jauron’s job is clearly on the line and our starting QB is hurt these guys give a gutsy performance and sans three huge runs, play pretty good ball and beat a heavy favorite at their stadium and its not because of the coach’s job and influence? Its ok to give Jauron credit for things once in a while.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
I don't think playing hard
is always for a HC
Jauron’s teams have been unprepared and outcoached all year. If the Jets didn’t implode, we probably aren’t talking about a win. I don’t think the Bills won this game because of Jauron. I think it was won in spite of him. He again mismanaged an end game situation, but luckily the team got another chance late in OT.
I’ve already said it’s admirable that he’s kept the team together. This game was won because the team keep playing hard, but also because the Jets made so, so, so many mistakes.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
So then what would you say about the Titans… are they playing for their coach or their jobs? 59 – 0.
I understand you hate him but give the guy some credit.
by Honestabe75 on Oct 20, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Fisher has lost that team
Jauron has not lost this team
The Titans rolled over and looked like they wanted to be anywhere but there.
That’s similar to how the Bills played in Miami. The coaches didn’t coach for their lives there and the players weren’t fighting for their livelihood either.
I don’t hate him, so please don’t say that.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I apologize for that. What would you call it great dislike…. haha
by Honestabe75 on Oct 20, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
mismanaged?
You really wanted to see NYJII of last year again? A 3rd down rollout PA that ends in a sack-fumble and losing the game. You can’t have it both ways. It was the right call, Lindell just missed the kick. Everything is so 2nd guessed when it doesn’t work, maybe when it becomes a trend it’s the players and not the HC?
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
calling a rollout inside your own 20 when all you have to do is run the clock out is different than trying to get inside 45 yards for a field goal when your kicker doesn't kick well from that distance and you're in the meadowlands.
and that’s without mentioning that the rollout was a pass to Corey McIntyre,
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
I was at that game
it was a long walk past a sea of green to my buddies car. I thikn even the Jets were too astounded at our stupidity to even make fun of me. They just sort of stared at me like I had lepracy.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
I think Lindell kicks as well as anybody from that distance. It wasn’t a gimmie by any stretch and they should have tried to get closer. They could have run another play to get it to fourth down and maybe gain a few more yards.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
like you said, no gimme
I have a ton of faith in Lindell from inside 40. At 45 or so, I get worried.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
You can't even come close to comparing the situations
Seriously
Joe nailed it on his response to you. The Bills were trying to preserve a lead there, inside the 30. Here, the Bills were trying to (or should have been) get closer for an easier FG attempt to win it. Plus, all the players were completely different. Different QB, 5 different OL, new OC, new WR, new TE…
If a team starts basing decisions like getting into better FG range on a stupid playcall the year before in a different situation, then they are insane.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
OOPS
I meant JPH, not Joe. Sorry JPH. I saw the JP and blacked out.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
it's all those 3 martini lunches, K. they're throwing you off your game.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
This, folks, is exactly what a FanPost should be.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 8:41 AM EDT reply actions
Seriously?
Dick Jauron is a class act and I would give really like him to succeed. But why did he keep so many Defensive backs, decide to draft Maybin when our pass rush is actually better than we thought, this without seeing how Chris Ellis might have fared in his 2nd season, not to mention drafting or signing more depth at linebacker or an offensive tackle. All the Bills fans are giddy because they beat the Jets, but they barely did so against a QB who threw 5 interceptions.
I compare Jauron to Levy, and Marv always had his teams prepared. How else can you explain 8 false starts against the Browns, or the fact that he now decides to not go with the no-huddle. In the Jets game, Jauron decided to settle on a 48 yard field goal with 50 seconds left, rather than try to get closer and in better field goal range – Lindell missed, but made up for it later.
Look at McDaniels for the Broncos, they have a completely revamped defense that was 29th last year and is now 1st!!!!!!! He is fiery and a winner, plus nobody gave him a chance of winning this year after trading for Cutler and it looks like Orton might be just as good, if not better – That folks, is a winner!
He threw 5 picks
because we picked off 5 passes. if we had not you would complain that we dident pick any balls.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Why did he… decide to draft Maybin when our pass rush is actually better than we thought,
Kurupt you wanna take this one?
All our DEs except Ellis were 30 or older. They had stunk in the past. They still aren’t playing lights out. They didn’t have a guy like him on the roster. You’re gonna bash him for taking a DE? What is this world coming to?
Who is giddy?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
The pass rush still isn’t any good. They have a few more sacks this season, but pressure is still a problem.
Age and lack of talent remains true.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Denver’s defense is better because Mike Nolan is there. Not Josh McDaniels.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I really like Mike Nolan
especially because he wore suits when he coached the 49ers. Obviously not a head coach, but I’d love to see him associated with the Bills in some way.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
So that means Josh McDaniels knows how to choose his coaching staff, right? I would say that that has been one of Jauron’s worst abilities so far, picking his coaching staff.
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t disagree with you on any of those things. The fanpost wasn’t about how Jauron chooses assistant coaches.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That's part of leading a football team though, isn't it?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Not according to the author.
Again, I’m not talking about scheming, game management, or x’s and o’s, I’m talking simply about leading a team to unite, to play to their potential, and to never quit on the overall goal: to accomplish a common task as a TEAM.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
I just love how people cannot stand DJ…it is amusing…talk about a scapegoat.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
To a certain extent, yes, some people are focusing too much of their anger and rage on one man. It clearly deserves to be spread across the entire organization. But, had you written a FanPost titled, “The Inner Circle of Trust: What a Group of Leaders,” there is no doubt in my mind you would have received equal scorn from this blog.
And given that it’s October, it is much easier to focus anger on Jauron because we see him every week. If Brandon, Guy, Overdorf, and Wilson had weekly press conferences, stood on the sidelines, and participated in each post-game press conference, you’d see a lot more FanPosts about how ridiculous this quote or that quote from Wilson is or how we’d be a much better team if Overdorf got animated on the sidelines or how John Guy’s record as a Vice President of Pro Personnel is a clear indication that he is incapable of performing the duties of his job, etc. You sometimes lose sight of the guys behind the curtain. And with Jauron running out there each and every week and continuing to provide ammunition for the anti-Jauron crowd, he’s a much easier and more frequent target.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
Nope
Saying he’s a great leader, but leaving out all the important football aspects involved, is not looking at the full picture. We can all agree that he’s done a good job of not losing his players, but that’s hardly the only way to judge him.
You talked about players playing to their potential. Can you honestly say that this team has played to its potential? Isn’t the scheming, game management and x’s and o’s part of getting the players to play up to their potential and putting them in position to be successful? Has that really happened under his tutelage?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
So if that is all it is....does that make Hitler a good leader???????
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
He was… but he was insane.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 20, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but that issue was not part of the quote :-)
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
That's his interpretation of leader
When I think of a football coach as a leader, it takes a lot more than uniting a team.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
He'd make an awesome Pee Wee coach.
Ice cream on Dick!
by twoeightnine on Oct 21, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re sick.
That would be so cold.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 21, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Everytime I call into Sirius NFL Radio to discuss Dick Jauron the Coach, every commentator on there goes straight to Dick Jauron the Man. I haven’t gotten a straight answer out of one person yet on there because they all like him so much personally. The same goes for his players (including Jim Miller on Sirius). Miller always says, his players love Jauron and therefore play hard for him. Well guess what, players play pretty hard for Bill Belichek, Tony Sparano, etc, and they aren’t typically associated with that whole “you get more flies with honey” MO. Just because his players like him and play hard for him doesn’t mean they play with discipline or any semblence of direction. It does fall on the HC because as has been stated on this site before, Jauron has the ultimate say in most personnel matters. The Buck stops there. It doesn’t matter how good a guy Jauron is, because he’s a crappy HC in his career.
C'Mon Man
You are correct, Jauron is pure class. However, in the NFL, you are judged by wins and losses. It does not matter if your players respect you and play hard for you if you dont win. The bottom line is that Jauron does not win. He has one winning season in his career as a head coach.
yes
but this isn’t about the x’s and o’s. This article is about DJ the Leader. Anyone that thinks Vince Lombardi could roll in here with this organization FO and succeed is ludicrous. For Jauron to do what he has in 3+ seasons, with no QB play and no OC I think is actually pretty solid. Now he has a part in the personnel and OC hirings so that’s on him, but if he had a FO that knew what they were doing, and gave him a blank check like Zygi Wilf and the VIkings, I think we’d see similar results as in Minnesota
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
I like your post, Marv, but to completely ignore that Jauron is part of that FO organization you reference is misguided. Jauron has a large say over what players are on the roster. Without a football GM Jauron and the rest of the Inner Circle sit down and pick the guys they want as a group. He should certainly bear some of that responsibility as well.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet Bellichick or Parcells could win with this roster.
I think McDaniels could too. But I think Parcells or Bellichick would have more success than McDaniels.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I am sick of the McDaniels talk already. Mangini was hailed as a Mangenius during his first season in New York. Give him a couple years before you start crowning him.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 21, 2009 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions
what impresses me the most of McDaniels is his self confidence. He was extremely smart in getting Nolan because without Nolan they would not be 6-0. He is a 33 year old coach that is so confident that he was comfortable with bringing the best possible candidate for DC even thought he was a young ex-head coach, he wasn’t affraid of the competition because he is very confident. You are only has good as the people who surround you.
He also believed that he needed a certain kind of quarterback. I’m not certain that I agreed with that but he did and so far it’s working out pretty good. They got an extra 1st & 3rd rounder in 2009 and will have an extra 1st in 2010 So far they are 6-0, can’t argue with that…
Then there’s Brandon Marshall, I love the way he handled that. Look at the intensity level at which that Brandon is now playing. When NE traded for disgruntled washed up Randy Moss, it was McDaniels that had to work with him day-in and day-out. Look at what Moss has done since he’s been in NE. He is much wiser than his age and he seems to be able to get the best out of guys like that, I think his youth has something to do with it.
All I can say is that I wasn’t a huge fan before and I am now. What really did it for me was the fact that he was able to hire a great DC and not be threatened by him. He is smart enough to know that his expertise is on the offensive side so he hired a great DC. This has been our problem since DJ’s been in Buffalo, he has never hired the right guy for the offensive side of the ball.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
come on
five months ago you’d be killing Josh McDaniels for being a boneheaded arrogant youngster. Like MRW said, give him time before you crown him.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
what part of
All I can say is that I wasn’t a huge fan before and I am nowwasn’t clear?
And I haven’t crowned him either, I guess the minute you say that someone impresses you, it’s an automatic crowning? Weird how that happens…
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
I guess the minute you say that someone impresses you, it’s an automatic crowning? Weird how that happens
no not at all. I’m just saying that same self confidence was his biggest fault in everyones eyes a few months earlier. So when the same quality goes from making him a goat to making him a great coach it lessens the impact when comparing him to Jauron.
Let it play out is all we’re saying
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
Not Crowning McDainels at all.
AS my post title said
I bet Bellichick or Parcells could win with this roster.
The only reason I added McDaniels, is because I think he could do a better job at this point. I also pointed out Parcells or Bellichick would do Better.
I thought McDaniels didn’t have a chance 5 months ago to last his contract, but he has proved to me now that he could do a better job than Jauron.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 22, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
The only reason I added McDaniels, is because I think he could do a better job at this point.
Exactly my point. Mangini started hot in NY a few years ago and everyone held him in high esteem. McDaniles should be nowhere near the list of Super Bowl winning coaches like Belichek and Parcells. Those guys are Hall of Fame locks. McDaniels has six wins.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 22, 2009 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You're right about Lombardi Marv
He couldn’t roll in here and win.
Today’s NFL is much different.
You could hit receivers after 5 yards back then.
Apples and Oranges.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
that's not the point
of this….I mean motivation/leading qualitiies of a coach. Anyone who had these 3 QB’s on the roster couldn’t win. Just couldn’t
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
To Brian Galliford:
This article right here, explains why the Bills, in a nutshell, will never be more then what they are.
Are you freaking kidding me?? The guy has a losing record has a HC, his clock management is poor at best, he coachs scared, and the reason why the players “love him” is b/c he holds no player accountable for there actions.
Jauron is mediocore and it reflects on his porous coaching staff and players.
Stop trying to get excited over a 16-13 OT win vs a Jets team that ran for 300+ yards, and committed 6 TO’s and the Bills, lead by your boy, Jauron nearly lost. And probably should’ve lost if Sanchez didn’t throw his 5th pick.
I do agree firing him now and letting Fewell or April take over would be a mistake, b/c there is no difference.
There is no silver lining in the Jauron cloud. 3 straight years of 7-9 doesn’t cut it for me or any other Bills fan.
I don’t know what your motives are, but at times you write like you work for OBD or your trying to position yourself for a job there.
You wrote a great piece on the GM and front office, and you follow up w/ this crap.
I don’t think anybody is excited over this loss or calling for the playoffs. At least nobody being realistic.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t write the article.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I apologize:
Brian I thought you wrote this, but it was MARVelous.
Brian, I apologize I didn’t read the fine print.
MARVelous, this article is garbage.
Really? Garbage? Is that necessary? Just because he disagrees with you doesn’t mean he’s not making points.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is my point: I do not CARE about Dick Jauron the man, I don’t know him, I never will know him. All I know about him is that he is a lousy head coach and his record shows it.
worst. article. ever.
Sorry, it’s just my opinion.
by Michael_Necci on Oct 20, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, at least Marv said he expected it. Still, you’re kind of being an ass.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty easy for someone that has never written a FanPost to call someone else’s hard work the “worst. article. ever.”
“People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…Okay. How about nobody throws stones? It’s just crappy behavior.”
Look. He's a 3rd round draft pick from Stanford and he throws like one. He's a bumpkin. Pass.
Haha
Maybe it’s “Only people in glass houses should throw stones, provided they are trapped in the house with a stone.” It’s a little longer, but yeah.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Haha. Demetrius Martin is awesome.
Look. He's a 3rd round draft pick from Stanford and he throws like one. He's a bumpkin. Pass.
demetri martin, that is.
and yeah, fantastic.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
yeah he MRW'ed that one!
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, seriously. Find another outlet for this anger. It’ll all be okay.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 20, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is it garbage?
Because you don’t agree with it? I don’t agree with it, but I hardly think it’s garbage. It’s well written and strongly tells us Marv’s point. I’ll take something I disagree with, like this over many of the Fanposts I agree with.
If you think it’s such hot garbage, write one that is just as well done to refute it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I agree
this post is accurate about Dick Jauron the man. I don’t think you’ll find a finer human being in the NFL than Jauron. As a head coach he has failed miserably. that doesn’t reflect on him personally, only professionally. He has many shortcomings as a HC and he has not changed any of them in the seasons that he’s been a HC.
To say that players are playing hard for Jauron and his job is not completely accurate either. each player is accountable for his actions on the field and they will be judged by those actions. If you want a long career in the NFL you will play hard on every play no matter the situation. Evans, Wood, etc. are natural leaders. they didn’t become leaders once they met Jauron. It’s no coincidence that both of those guys played college ball for 4 years. they were leaders at Wisconsin and Louisville and they will be leaders of this football team as well.
by gatornation on Oct 20, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL! You might as well have said “whoops, my bad, wrong idiot.”
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I fail to see how anything as well-written as this is, could be described as garbage. If you have a point you want heard, make as thoughtful a fanpost as this one.
I love the article and still stand by Jauron this year. Any coaching change this year will merely afford the team an ability to draft #1 overall.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 20, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
This is garbage?
well I think you are garbage. The point of this is about Jauron the leader, not the HC. And if anyone thinks this organization dysfunction doesn’t start with Ralph and the FO, they need to study up. Jauron as a coach, teacher and leader is as good as you’ll ever find
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
Nice rebuttal….
This is garbage?
well I think you are garbage
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Your…your brain’s got the shell on it.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
lol
“your brain has a thin candy shell”
“yeah well your brain has a thick candy shell”
LOL classic.
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought the Bills always played hard for Wade Phillips. I’m guessing not too many people would want him back.
Getting a team to play hard is good, but just one component of coaching. Ideally, you want your coach to get the team to play hard, play well, and make good decisions on game day.
Jauron fails at the last two points, and that’s evidenced by his career coaching record.
Should read: Dick Jauron, What? A Leader?
He has a career record of 59-80 and if you take away his ONE winning season of his entire pro coaching career it is a dismal 46-77. I watched the Denver game last night and what a difference a REAL coach has made for Denver. They are a pleasure to watch. The Bills are torture. We should have lost Sunday if the Jets hadn’t muffed the field goal try in overtime. With 6 interception we still barely won. Jauron I am sure is a wonderful man but he is not a good or even average coach and at 59 most likely will never be. We have played 2 consecutive with teams having quarterbacks playing like High School JV and we lost one and barely won another. At least we could lose in an entertaining manner. The most entertaining remark Ralph C Wilson ever made was at a press conference a few years back where he said the C does not stand for cheap. He was more entertaining than the Bills have been in the past 3+ years of Jaurons’ tenure. We all know the team will never be anything but mediocre with him at the helm.
the problem with this is the assumption that there's such a thing as "an excellent Matt Christopher book."
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was freaking hysterical. I literally laughed so loud everyone at work around me came over thinking I was watching a youtube video or something. HAHAHAHAH!!! I am so pleased that not only did Matt Christopher come up in discussion but that Matt Christopher was subsequently trashed in said discussion. HAHA, nice JPH, made my day a bit better.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
i just re-read it and laughed again...hahaa
i’m tearing up here. “an excellent Matt Christopher book”. haha, evne typing it is making me laugh
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
Still not convinced that Jauron is the right guy to be HC
I wrote a Fanpost about this after the New England loss, and Jauron has don’t nothing to convince me otherwise to this point.
Some things to consider from the win:
Did we win the game as much as the Jets lost the game? If Sanchez doesn’t implode, we probably don’t win. If Weatherford fields the snap cleanly, we may not have won. There was a lot that went wrong for the Jets that enabled this win.
I don’t discount the idea that players are playing hard for Jauron, and that they realize that Jauron’s job is on the line. But that’s the point- avoiding let-ups and playing hard all the time. Being focused all the time. Leaders make that happen. Trap games are sometimes unavoidable, but we’ve seen lack of effort against Miami, and lack of focus against Cleveland. Focus, discipline and motivation all the time, not just when the coach you like has his job on the line.
Adjustments- why did it take Edwards going out for us to switch to a power offense? We constantly see other teams adjusting what they do to be effective. Jauron is a master at preparing the team to play, but he’s terrible at in game adjustments. EG: the game plan for Cleveland could have work, but when it didn’t, we didn’t change much. It took Edwards’ injury for us to change. Does anyone really think Edwards couldn’t have been, at a minimum, as effective as Fitzpatrick in that offense?
I don’t discount Jauron’s perseverance. Believe me, it’s a huge deal for leaders. But there are limits. Trying hard doesn’t cut it. Einstein’s definition of insanity applies here. Sure, they dumped the no-huddle, but that’s it as far as changes, as compared to what’s going wrong?
Until I see the players focused, disciplined and motivated all the time; until I see smart and timely in game adjustments as the norm; until I see optimal changes along with perseverance as the norm, I’m just not going to be convinced.
And I really haven’t even talked about sideline presence as a leader, or leading in key moments- but my fanpost covers that.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 20, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Good thoughts
I fully agree.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It’s appalling to me how many people have spewed some version of “but he’s a sucky head coach!”, as if MARVelous’ point was to say how perfect Jauron is, and how many games he’s won is an anomaly of some sort. That’s missing the point entirely. There is a fair way to criticize someone, and there are lines to be drawn between what to criticize and what not to criticize. I think Marv’s piece does a great job helping to define that line – and that’s all it does. That’s why I bumped it to the front page – not to say “Dick’s the best coach ever!”, but to help define the arguments for and against him.
Seriously – nobody’s opinions on whether Jauron should go (or, in the very rare instance, stay) should change based on reading this article. That’s not why Marv wrote it.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
MARVelous’ post doesn’t just define how we should and should not criticize Jauron. It defines the criteria, then defends Jauron. An example:
I have never seen Dick Jauron lose a football team. In fact, under the most dire of circumstances, I see Dick Jauron is capable of rallying his team to play at their highest of levels, with energy and passion. Again, I’m not talking about scheming, game management, or x’s and o’s, I’m talking simply about leading a team to unite, to play to their potential, and to never quit on the overall goal: to accomplish a common task as a TEAM.
What this tells the reader is that whatever Jauron’s shortcomings in scheming, game management, etc., that he’s a good leader because he influenced his team to play together. I don’t agree. Leadership isn’t defined completely by just doing what Webster’s says, and it for sure doesn’t count in just one game.
I disagree with MARVelous’ way of judging Jauron- because leadership goes beyond just a book definition, and the execution of it over a short period of time. It’s more than that, and most especially, it has to be displayed repeatedly over time.
I’d argue I’ve got some pretty good life experience with leadership, and that I’m in a pretty good position to understand leadership both conceptually, in the long-haul grind, and in stressful situations.
For all of us, in our life, we should be lucky if we can find ways to stay as poised and persistent as Jauron has through all the billboards, losses, and fan anarchy.
I don’t feel sorry for Jauron, or anyone for that matter, in these types of circumstances. Poised and persistent under the extreme pressure of billboards, losing football games, and fans being mad? Seriously. The humanity of it all.
There are some posts in this thread that counter MARVelous’ argument with the SNL “Jauron, you suck” response. Mostly though, there are some well thought though reasons why Jauron isn’t the right guy to be a head coach, and I include my own post in that group.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 20, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agree
Marv specifically defends jauron the coach at the en of his article saying it’s an organazational problem and bot jaurons. Somehow absolving dick of blame. Dick may motivate amd lead his players, but if you motivate and lead players to losing records, poor performances, and many losses, that ain’t gonna cut it in the NFL. And as well it shouldn’t. This is a game, the main purpose is to win. And I’m with der, I cannot bring myself to “feel bad” for a guy earning millions of dollars coaching a game that many would die just for the oppurtunity to do.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Oct 20, 2009 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn’t read it as Marv trying to absolve Jauron of blame, but on the second read-through, yeah, I can see how that might be inferred. I read it as more of Jauron is part of the problem.
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by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
he certainly hasnt proved to be any kind of solution.
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Marv specifically said he thinks we don't have a coaching problem
so I’m not sure how you read it as Jauron being part of the problem?
I read it as Marv defending Jauron’s ability to lead and how great he is at it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
What Marv specifically said was this:
The Bills’ misfortunes are an organizational problem, not a HC problem.
I read that as Jauron is part of the organization and should not solely be blamed nor heralded. Jauron is part of the organization.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
well
i think almost everyone on this blog knows it goes beyond just jauron. but that doesnt mean he gets a pass, his accountability is as large as the GM’s or anyone else in the FO. in other words, even if jauron is part of the problem, he is a major part, and most likely needs to go in order for this team to move forward instead of laterally.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Oct 20, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I read it differently!!
I thought and still believe he was saying we dont’ have a problem at HC. Wouldn’t he have said we have an organizational problem, not JUST a HC problem??
Semantics, blah blah blah
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
LOL – I guess we’ll never know unless Marv clarifies. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, firstly, yeah – definitely wasn’t calling out everyone who disagrees with Marv. And if I did, I’d do it one-by-one, not in one fell swoop. I didn’t mean to offend everyone, just, as you say, the SNL crowd.
I disagree with MARVelous’ way of judging Jauron- because leadership goes beyond just a book definition, and the execution of it over a short period of time. It’s more than that, and most especially, it has to be displayed repeatedly over time.
I agree – but lacking in certain areas, what we might call “departments of leadership,” does not make you a bad leader, either. Again, there’s a line to be drawn. Marv is drawing it. Jauron’s leadership is second to none in, as you say, the Webster’s fashion, but beyond that – in terms of leading his coaching staff with game plans, in-game decisions, etc. – that’s far more open to interpretation. Again – line drawn.
I don’t feel sorry for Jauron, or anyone for that matter, in these types of circumstances. Poised and persistent under the extreme pressure of billboards, losing football games, and fans being mad? Seriously. The humanity of it all.
Beyond the perspective, the point applies. You shouldn’t feel sorry for him – I guarantee you he doesn’t feel sorry for himself – but Marv didn’t ask you to feel sorry for him. The point was simply that in a rough situation, Jauron’s working through it like he should. That’s it.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
But MARV specifically says it’s about accomplishing goals as a team. The question that begs to be asked is (and other people have already said this above), “What on earth are the goals they’re trying to accomplish?”
That’s why I agree with Der Jaeger that the leadership MARV is lauding Jauron for is not leadership. It’s simply being a high-character peson. Having high character is one important part of leadership, and Jauron is a high-character person. No objective person questions that. But character alone does not make anyone an effective leader.
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with all of that. Particularly the last line. Jauron clearly lacks in key leadership areas, but I think Marv felt compelled to talk up the qualities he does bring to the table. Because let’s face it – in this fan base, the man is a scapegoat. He’s the figurehead punching bag of fans’ frustrations. Some of it – but not all of it – is deserved. And that’s why I think Marv felt compelled to throw him a public bone, if you will.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
Leadership is all the things I talked about. Accomplish goals yes. They obviously haven’t. But I don’t blame Jauron for that. I blame the organizational FO structure and idiot committee approach. name me one organization with a committee approach that works? Again, you people think that Shanahan, Belichick, Lombardi, etc could come in with this organizational FO structure and win 11 games, while Jauron can only win 7. I think that’s a flat out insane opinion. Jauron is leading this team the best he can, and you couple injuries, expectations, and no QB, I find it all the more appaling that his team still refuses to quit, because they are driven by his leadership
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
Jauron has obstacles to overcome from the FO, which he is a part of
But much like our Oline, he shoots himself in the foot way to often.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
Are you saying the players would quit if not for Jauron?
They are driven by their own goals and desire to win.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Here's a way to look at it
“A way” to look at leadership: Be, Know, Do.
Be: set the example. No issues with Jauron.
Know: understand your job. No issues with Jauron
Do: Do your job. Partial issue with Jauron, but it’s a doozie. I have said many, many times that Jauron preps masterfully. It’s his in game leadership that I take issue with, eg: timely and accurate adjustments, influencing players during the game. That’s huge.
You brought up Belichick and Shanahan. They are as good of pre-game planners, or better. Where they outpace Jauron, by a lot, is in game leadership.
Staying calm on the sideline has it’s merits. But you can’t expect that “the plan” will work, or that “hard work” will win out. Maybe in the long run, but not in the course of a game.
I’m not suggesting that Jauron should be a loud-mouth on the sideline like Ryan, but words from the HC influence players. Jauron making changes personally goes a long way- not just when to punt and when not to, but real changes.
Think Edwards might need a sit down with Jauron on the sideline after some of the plays Edwards has made/failed to make? Belichick often pulls away from the game to go talk to Brady for a bit. Why? Because Brady is the focal point of the offense and the team, and taking that time can effect real change- where Belichick tells a frustrated Brady to be patient. Or takes advice from Brady and relays it to the OC.
It’s also about keeping the team focused and sharp. Maybe a few choice words to the OL against Cleveland might have helped. Maybe after seeing those penalties, a call up to Van Pelt or talking to Edwards about the hard counts helps. Something to stop the bleeding…
The Bills are hard to play but not hard to beat.
They are, mostly, motivated to play and play hard. But it’s easy pickings for a Belichick to beat Jauron because Belichick knows the right buttons to push in his players, the right way, to effect change. Buffalo has a plan and sticks with it. NE weathers the initial part of the game, then out-adjusts us. Saw it in the opener, saw it in the Bruschi comeback game…. pretty much every game with NE where the score isn’t a blowout. And we’ve seen it against other coaches as well.
My issue is the in game leadership, and it’s big enough that I think Jauron isn’t the right guy to be the HC.
A Good Example of What I'm Talking About
I’m currently watching the 2006 AFC Championship Game, Colts vs. Pats.
As the Colts were getting crushed in the first half, down 21-3 early on, the video shows Tony Dungy breaking away from the game on the sideline. He talked to his DB’s on what they were seeing, for example. He clearly understood whatever plan they had going into that game needed to be adjusted.
He was involved with how they were going to adjust by interacting, on the sideline, with his players and coaches, working to find a solution. In a calm, cool manner, Dungy asserted himself by talking to his team and by actively seeking adjustment solutions. He was the model of leadership, not freaking out or screaming, and you could see his team respond.
It was telling that Tedy Bruschi talked about the offensive adjustments- particularly going to straight runs, and understanding the Patriot coverages- and that he said the Colts adjusted until they found what worked.
It was also interesting to see Belichick breaking away from the game to talk to Brady, Bruschi, and others to talk about the Colt adjustments and how to counter them.
Two coaching greats scheming against each other in a battle of wits. That’s what we need from Jauron.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 20, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying that
if the Bills change FO (removing the whole management by committee crap), then DJ can win with this team and these players based on his “leadership” which you observed? [Keep in mind he had a big say of the players drafted by the Bills in the past couple of years.]
Let’s just say for a moment he really does have great leadership skills (which I do not agree totally — see Der Jaeger’s comments previously), why can’t the Bills hire a HC who has leadership skills and can also do game planning, and in-game adjustments as well?
Bills fan half way around the world
No offense taken, I was referencing the Jeter skit a few years back.
Compartmentalizing leadership is OK. If you have someone that is only good at some things and not others, then a hard look has to be made at capabilities and limitations.
I agree that Jauron has the team together and playing as a team. The hump for Jauron has always been the in-game adjustments and sideline leadership- eg: influencing players and situations to try to achieve an outcome. You see Belichick do it all the time. Parcells did it all the time.
Jauron isn’t great at it- big limitation. His planning and prep work makes him the ideal defensive coordinator. His in game deficiencies don’t allow him to match the effectiveness of his rivals as a head coach.
Well said
Again, I fully agree with your assessment of leadership and Jauron’s leadership.
Leadership isn’t defined completely by just doing what Webster’s says, and it for sure doesn’t count in just one game.
So very, very true. Where is this supposed great leadership the rest of the time?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Let me clarify
this piece in no way condones that DJ should stay on as Bills coach. It in no ways says I am happy or satisfied with what has transpired in the 3+ years of his tenure. It is simply showing you that despite a lot of tough times, Jauron has never lost his team. MNF vs Dallas, Week 1 vs NE, last week vs the Jets are prime examples of Jauron’s team’s rising to the ocassion in big games, when other teams would cash it in. Look at the Skins and Titans last week? Are you kidding me? Again, I’ll be the first to point out the flaws of this organization but when you look at the talent and most importantly the QB play over his tenure, it is no secret why the Bills have not won more than 7 games in a season. The game mismanagement, scheming, vanillaness gets so blown out of proportion because blame has to go somewhere. I give Jauron credit for facing the music and never throwing anyone under the bus. Consequently this is the ONLY reason why this team has ANY chance of still salvaging this season
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
He may be a great leader.
I just wish he was only leading the defense…….not the team.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for keeping your hear up, Marv
No matter what anyone else might say.
Dick Jauron does seem to have trouble picking the right assistants, especially on offense. As far as the rest of the Bills problems, I’m not sure the buck stops with him.
Also, rec’d!
Simple equation........
Jauron the man > Jauron the coach………….but that doesnt = wins…….
Last time I checked the Vinny Lombardi doesnt go to the guy who is a great leader of men……….it goes to the guy who is a great leader of men who win.
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions
well, if we're getting right down to it
more prestigious honors and medals go to guys who are great leaders of men (in combat, in policy, in diplomacy).
The Vinny Lombardi goes to guys who are great leaders of grown men playing a boys game.
Believe me, I love the NFL and as my namesake says, Poz is the man. But at the end of the day, all Jauron’s failed at is leading men in a game. I think I’ll take being a better man than a better coach anyday.
But I’m rambling, you are right, it stil doesn’t = wins hahahah!
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
poz, in one regard I totally agree with you —> If I’m talking about which person I would rather be like (Lombardi or Jauron), I’d agree – Jauron.
Which person would I rather have coach the team I support? Not Jauron. Now, I don’t necessarily want someone like Mangini either.
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric Mangini is the worst coach in the NFL. I don’t count Tom Cable.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, think I made a poor choice there.
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Zorn?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Eric Mangini is a worse head coach than Jim Zorn. IMO, of course.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. He’s trigger happy with his players.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 20, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know Brian. Zorn did lead his team in three rallying, post-game cries of “Hip, hip, hooray!”
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
LOL. That’s a fair point.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 20, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Raheem Morris
Is giving him a run for the worst coach :)
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 21, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but I root for the Buffalo Bills.......
not just Dick Jauron……
If i just rooted for Dick Jauron then I would feel completely satisfied with his life performance and how he conducts himself.
However…..this is Buffalo Rumblings – blog about the Buffalo Bills…..
thats all that matters
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Imagine a blog with this many followers
dedicated solely to the rooting for Dick Jauron’s life performance.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 20, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
would you still be leading in comments?
LOL.
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 20, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I'd be a member of that community...
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I can see the updates now
JAURON DOESN’T MENTION THAT BARISTA SCREWED UP HIS COFFE ORDER, TAKES COFFE ANYWAY
JAURON PATIENT AS SON STRUGGLES TO RIDE BIKE
JAURON DRAFTS 4 DEFENSIVE BACKS IN FANTASY BASEBALL DRAFT
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Post coffee conference, “Well, we’d certainly like to have the coffee I ordered, but I’ll take we’ll take the Caramel Macchiato.”
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
I'm a fan of Dick Jauron
and that’s all that matters! Bc this is a Bills blog, and bc the HC is Jauron, it does matter
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
norcaliangelsfan gets my vote for initiating the funniest thread segment in a month.
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 20, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
haha I agree!
and of course, being a better man doesnt count for winning Bills football but i was in one of my philosophical moods. ..
Also, I think Rex Ryan is the worst coach in the NFL. He jacked up his team on adrenaline, they won 3 then they burned out and lost 3. Now they’ve been tlaking smack and lsot back to back divisional games….demoralizing much? Thats why its not good for your head coach to talk smack. When you start losing he looks like a tool
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
The ryans have to be the only family where rex ryan wouldn't be the craziest of the siblings
I think Rob is a complete psychopath. even moreso than Rex. he looks like some conspiracy theorist who lives alone in the woods and makes pipe bombs.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Going into week 7 of the NFL season, Dick Jauron is the best coach for the Buffalo Bills football team. This does not mean that he is the best coach long term or even for next season but a lot of Marv’s points make sense.
No other coach will be able to keep this team together in order to compete week after week because that act is an indicator that the season is lost. Being 2-4 is different than being mathematically eliminated. Dick Jauron’s ability to keep this team together and playing hard is the biggest advantage we have. It will allow us to remain competitive when arguably injuries are ravaging us.
Although he has finished 7-9 each year with the Bills, somehow we play a meaningful game in December. The only problem is that we have not won them.
Once the season ends, I anticipate an overhaul of the team. However, with that said, I believe that Dick Jauron gives us the best chance to win, from a head coaching perspective, for the rest of the season.
Let’s just sum up what we all (hopefully) think this way:
- He’s a great man, a guy you hope to see win as he never hangs anybody out to dry, but he’s a proven loser in this league and he’s – no matter how you put it – just a bad HC.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Oct 20, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
A Matter of Time
This team is a very clear combination of the exact assets and liabilities of the HC, OC and DC. And not just this year, but over the last three. So you can throw in RW, RB and TM and their staff into the mix as to why the Bills are laboring.
So far this year we have seen the success of the HC in leading in tough times. We have seen the semblence of an effective defense despite a substantial array of injuries on a young team with no real depth. Our OC has half a dozen games under his belt, equal to most of his offensive line. And now the starting QB is out.
Assessing the givens, how on earth is anyone else going to do a better job coaching? The defects are obvious and not easily overcome. The players need to keep playing hard and learning, reducing the amount of their mistakes.
DJ understands the need to not play stupid football when you don’t have the best talent set in the NFL. But understanding doesn’t compensate for the play of the players. DJ has already had a substantial number of chances to prove his worth. He has the balance of the season to try and turn this team around to stay. The players have to perform or the coach is gone. It’s that simple.
Thoughts
I read this post earlier today trying to formulate a comment without the influence of the other arguments. I must say I did enjoy reading this and it made me think. As an Operations Manager I like to use sports analogies all the time. I realized my management style is very similar to DJ’s. Granted I get a little more animated at times (okay a lot more animated), but when the pressure is on, and my team is looking at me, they see no fear as I am poised. I know that we are prepared and can handle any situation. One thing I have learned as I’m sure most could agree with, a bad hire can set you back tremendously. I have seen my peers, who are great managers, make poor hiring decisions and their operations have suffered for it. While I agree Dick is a good leader, I think he hasn’t made the best hires in his coordinators.
Keepin' the faith!
Jauron is a classy individual, a lot classier than me, but...
He does not have the skills to be a HC. Let’s not forget that many of Buffalo’s heartbreaking losses are due to the HC not positioning/preparing his team to make the right moves to close out wins. He just doesn’t prepare this team to WIN.
When Trent Edwards left the Jets game and the other injuries kept piling up, as a fan I’m sure many of you were saying “seriously, what else can go wrong?”
Nope, I said, “yes, here’s our chance to air it out to TO & Evans!”
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
i didnt think that
but I think Lee Evans thought the same thing as you. He looked so excited and confident talking up Fitz as he was warming up, like he knew he was facing an opportunity not a problem.
Take it to mean what you will but hes obviously confident and comfortable with Fitz.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
Great Fan Post
I think Jauron and this crew have done one heck of a thankless job. They’ve rebuilt a team and now we see light at the end of the tunnel. 5 years of the previous administration ended in disarray. This leadership team took the difficult step of rebuilding from scratch.
I certainly hope Mr Wilson keeps Jauron on. I know it may cost him a few season tickets at first, but I think this team is on the verge of being specials and as the wins come so will the ticket sales.
I was at an airport and watched the Saints spank the Giants. Drew Brees ate them for lunch and it confirmed a thought that I’ve had for a while. Our defense is pretty darn impressive and it’s what this leadership group has started with. Say what you will about us backing into a victory (NE did in week 1) or that it took 5 ints to win, either way, we got 5 ints and they made Sanchez look like a rookie.
I was at the Atlanta airport when they switched from NE v the Volunteers and finished up with the Bills-Jet game and I could not have been more proud of the Bills defense. The looked pretty darn tough, fast, and skilled. Everyone watching at the terminal was impressed.
We all know that our Bills’ lives depend on the growth of this very, very young O-line. And for the record, I think we have a shot at a wining record this year.
Great fanpost. I’ve come to avoid reading fanposts in general because it’s all gotten pretty nasty. But I have to say I enjoyed the heck out of this post.
Love the blog
But penalties are still killing the bills. Going into the game CBS flashed a stat that they were #1 in penalties and they still had 8 in this game (only offset by 14 by the Jets). I think while the players commit the penalties the HC has to take some responsibility. They were only bailed out this week by the incompetence of the Jets.
I am also glad the DJ is a nice guy and last I checked he makes a nice salary but I think that being a nice guy does not have to correlate to success in your job. I work with lots of people, some nice, some not-so-nice, but in a professional context I want someone who can do the job. I would rather have a not-so-nice person at my job who can do the job as opposed to the really nice incompetent person who makes my job impossible. This is a competitive industry and I think whether the players like him or not is irrelevant. They are all well compensated to do the job, win football games. I don’t care if they all hang out together or if they can’t stand each other. In an ideal world, everyone would be nice and do well but if I have to choose one I choose success. I do agree that firing DJ at this point probably doesn’t do anything but to those that support DJ, do you see the Bills doing better than 7 – 9? if so, how? Thanks.
Penalties
Dick Jauron’s teams have consistently been among the best in the league at not taking penalties. This year it’s a cluster#@$% of them. What gives? The majority of the flags have been on inexperienced players like Demetrius Bell, Eric Wood, and Nic Harris. I’m not excusing the mistakes just restating that penalties and mental mistakes are not hallmarks of a Jauron squad.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.
by MattRichWarren on Oct 20, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It's an interesting debate
which could spark hundreds of questtions, with no real answer.
For instance, is a head coach a good “leader” if his team plays hard all the time, regardless of adversity? We’d all answer, “sure,” but don’t most NFL players play hard regardless of what team they’re on? I mean, how many players don’t want to win? Not many.
Is an NFL head coach a “leader” if he picks poor assistants, or makes poor decisions during the game? Is a coach overrated? Is it the organization that wins, not the coach? Or is a head coach crucial since most NFL players are all the cream of the crop from college? Why exactly do some teams win over long periods no matter who the coach is, or some coaches win no matter what team they’re coaching?
Does it help to be a rah-rah Josh McDaniels? If Jauron too laid-back? Does all that meaning something, or very little?
I could go on and on. Yes, Sunday night I, too, wasi mpressed how hard the Bills always play under Jauron but, frankly, I see that in every game. Look at last night’s game…..you know the relatively-unknown Bronco players are busting their butt and are undefeated, but don’t tell me the Chargers didn’t care just as much.
Every NFL coach is a leader; the question is how much talent do they have to work with, and what do they do with it?
A quick p.s.
Even though all the players are good or they wouldn’t have made it to the NFL, there are a few crucial elements, one being quarterback. Without a good QB, it’s almost impossible to win no matter who you are. as head coach. Also, there is no guarantee any coach, even the best of “leaders,” can win. Joe Gibbs was multiple Super Bowl winner the first time around in Washington, not even close the second time. Jimmy Johnson won big in Dallas; not so in Miami.
Would anyone win with J.P. Losman and Trent Edwards? Could anyone lose with Peyton Manning? So many questions……it’s all opinions (but some people state them as if they are facts).
by ccthemovieman on Oct 20, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Kudos to you for defending Jauron in this time. I agree with almost everything you wrote. Not many coaches could have handled all of the things he has had to deal with while in Buffalo the last few years. He deserves credit when his team wins. I don’t agree with his coaching style, or his schemes. But his players respect him and they play hard for him no matter what. Even when we got shellacked by the Pats over the years, they never seemed to completely quit on him like the Titans did in Foxborough on Sunday
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
What a great post
I may not agree with it’s premise or conclusions, but it generated such thoughtful commentary by the Rumblings community.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Couldn't agree more.
Thanks, MARV… and keep them coming!
Cowboy Up!
by CowboyCrazy on Oct 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Poppycock
Where you mention…
I thought Ralph Wilson’s quotes today in the Associated Press were very fitting, and something all of us should take stock in during these turbulent times as a Bills fan:
“The only stat that matters is the `W,”’ Wilson said. “All things considered, for a lot of the heat that our coaches have been taking, guys getting injured, adversity comes in a variety of ways. It’s how you respond to it. And we did a phenomenal job of following coach Jauron’s lead by staying poised and composed.”
I’m pretty sure those quotes were made by George Wilson and not Ralph Wilson. I was taken aback by the quotes when I first read the article the other day, then realized earlier in the piece that George Wilson was quoted on another question.
If Ralph Wilson had made those statements, there would have been a firestorm of controversy because that would have been telling the media and fans that Dick Jauron just received a vote of confidence. It wouldn’t be too far of a stretch that Ralph Wilson privately shares those sentiments though.
However, when all is said and done, the key word in your key quote is “accomplishment”…
“process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task”
The accomplishment or achievement, if you will, is success…and that is where Coach Jauron has been a colossal failure.
by BfloSportsDude on Oct 21, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions
no no
success is not materially defined not by wins or losses my friend. I take it as the Wooden definition of success: “Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming.”
The Achievement you are talking about is due to lack of personnel success, mainly finding a QB. There was zero chance wtih Losman, Holcomb, Edwards, and now Fitzpatrick.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
All very nice, warm, and fuzzy
But the NFL defines success in Wins and Loss. That is it…..that’s the list.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
Marv, I deliberately stayed out of this discussion because I had nothing good to say.
But frankly I cannot hold back anymore… In Buffalo, Dick Jauron has final say on personnel decisions. He is the one who has final say on draft choices and FAs. So don’t give us this crap that he has not been lucky in his quest for a QB because he’s the reason we are in this crap position in the first place. Fitz was the first FA signing in the NFL, Jauron ran so fast to sign him, he genuinely thought that Fitz was the best option for our backup. He also thought that Edwards was our future and didn’t try to upgrade in FA or the draft. He has the power so you cannot imply that he is unlucky, he simply lacks the competence to use it properly.
Lastly, I want to throw a question out there (actually this would make a great post) – As a fan, do you prefer 7-9 or 8-8 seasons with players that are all nice and play at 100% all the time, a team that is consistently in the middle of the pack that never makes the playoffs but is also never really a bottom dweller. Or do you prefer to have a team where you have some real superstars, might have some issues as a result once and a while, but a team that has the potential to dominate and win a big game, bring home a Superbowl to the Buffalo nation? I for one prefer the second option. It’s a nice goal to have hard working guys that are all stand-up in your community but I want to have a chance at the big game and you can’t get there with mediocre hard working nice guys, you need some superstars and you need some attitude. Ps: Our mediocre nice guys have been in trouble with the law also in recent years so really what’s the benefit?
Also, you claim that our guys play hard for their coach and his incredible leadership, well what happened against Miami? and then again against the win-less Browns? I am fed up of losing and I’d like to be proud of the team I support.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
Mike Greenberg might not be the smartest football guy,
but I once heard him say the worst thing your team can do is finish 8-8. I agree with that.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes

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