Rumblings Draft Scouting: Top 10 College Prospects
It's Thursday, which means it's time for our weekly chat about college football and, more importantly, 2010 NFL Draft prospects. We've done several posts in this series and it's been generally pretty popular - so, naturally, we're tinkering with it again today. It's a little early to be doing anything like this, but what the heck - top ten lists are fun to rip apart at any point in the season.
This is our list of the top ten NFL prospects currently playing college football. The list is a combination of our opinions on players, as well as the general buzz surrounding players from the pros at this point. Feel free to offer up your opinions on each player on the list, as well as whether you think other players need to be mentioned amongst this elite group as well.
1. Jake Locker, QB, Washington. No player's draft stock is higher right now than this 6'3", 226-pound junior's. That's a little scary, considering there are some pretty serious question marks surrounding Locker's game, particularly his accuracy (he's only completing 57% of his passes this season). No player does more with as little as Locker does at UW; his leadership skills are paralleled (or, as it happens, probably eclipsed) only by those of Tim Tebow. His stats won't blow you away, but scouts love his intangibles, his huge arm and athleticism, and the fact that he's operating a pro-style offense under Steve Sarkisian. He'd probably be better served finishing his college run in 2011, but if he comes out after this season, he's a very serious contender to be selected No. 1 overall.
2. Ndumakong Suh, DT, Nebraska. This guy is outstanding. At 6'4" and 302 pounds, Suh has the most NFL-ready body of any defensive lineman in the country. He's been a dominant force in the Big 12 for the last two seasons, and while he has all of the traits that any dominant defensive lineman possesses (size, brute strength, athleticism, motor), what sets him apart is the fact that he's constantly around the football despite receiving so much attention from opposing blockers. Scouts love the fact that he's so involved, game in and game out. Scheme versatility is the icing on the cake. Barring injury, there's no way this guy slips out of the top five.
3. Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma. Yes, I put Suh ahead of the 6'4", 298-pound McCoy on this list, but McCoy might have the most potential of any defender in the nation. The junior has probably been even more dominant than Suh this season; he's anchored an Oklahoma defense that's had a lot of pressure on it as the Sooners try to win games without Sam Bradford. He'll always be compared to former OU star (and current Bears star) Tommie Harris, but McCoy is a better pro prospect. He's explosive at the point of attack and is a tremendous athlete. Another sure-fire top five prospect at the moment.
4. Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame. Simply because of the school for which he plays, Clausen is hyped up and scrutinized more than most players in the nation. The 6'3", 223-pound junior has taken it in stride and is having by far his best college season, despite ND's 4-2 record. He's been absolutely clutch late in games this season, flashing outstanding leadership skills and playmaking ability with games on the line. Scouts love the fact that he's performing at an extremely high level at perhaps the most difficult college school to play for, and he's doing so with excellent poise and maturity. Charlie Weis' NFL ties help as well. You'll hear concerns about his arm angle on throws - much like David Carr did when he came out - but rest assured that Clausen is a very legitimate pro prospect, and has an outside shot at being the first player taken if he comes out and has a strong close to the '09 season.
5. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee. It's really tough for safeties to make a name for themselves in college, and most that do do so based on athletic prowess alone. Berry - a 5'11", 203-pound junior - made his name based on production in his first two years at Tennessee. He had 12 interceptions, 3 sacks and 3 defensive scores in his first two seasons at UT, and while his stat production has slipped under Monte Kiffin (he has just one INT this season), he's still the best player on the field for the vast majority of his snaps. His instincts and intangibles are through the roof, and while his big plays are the big selling point, he's a big hitter and a great athlete, too. One of the few instant-impact defensive backs in the country, and another virtual lock for the top ten.
6. Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa. The 6'6", 312-pound junior (yeah, there are a lot of juniors on this list) has made a full recovery from an overblown thyroid problem and injury issues earlier in the season, and has very nearly regained the form that made him one of the top underclassmen on scouts' lists entering the season. Bulaga is big, with quick feet and long arms, and he can sink his hips against speed rushes - that's pretty much all you need (along with a mean streak, of course) to become an elite NFL offensive tackle. With a strong finish to the '09 campaign, Bulaga will cement himself as the top tackle available should he decide to leave Iowa a year early.
7. Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas. Let's be frank - Mallett, a 6'7", 238-pound sophomore, is nowhere near ready to become the face of any NFL franchise. There are still serious questions surrounding his accuracy and leadership qualities - because let's face it, not many sophomore quarterbacks are the assertive, willful leaders that cause scouts to nudge said players up draft boards. To say he's made strides in his second year under Bobby Petrino, however, is a massive understatement. Arkansas has been surprisingly competitive in the SEC this season, and that includes their most recent loss, a 23-20 road decision to No. 1-ranked Florida. Mallett has thrown just three interceptions and 14 touchdowns this season - that's as many as Clausen - and clearly he's got the size, arm strength and athleticism that scouts drool over. His potential is elite, but he'd be silly not to return to Arkansas for his junior season. His game needs a lot of polish.
8. Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama. Well, he's definitely big - 6'5", 365 pounds big. He surprised some folks a year ago when he elected to return to Alabama for his senior season, and it's really paid dividends for a Tide team that features the best defense in the nation. Cody isn't a stats guy, but he's so massive and strong that he has what we might refer to as the Ted Washington effect - he makes life infinitely easier for every other Tide defender simply by being on the field. He can collapse pockets and he pursues well for a man of his stature. Considering the continued emergence of the 3-4 defense as the scheme of choice in the NFL, plenty of NFL teams will have Cody at or near the top of their boards come April.
9. Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama. I realize that I just got done talking about how McClain's teammate, Cody, makes life easier for everyone. McClain is obviously benefiting from playing with Cody, but the 6'4", 256-pound junior is a top-flight prospect on his own merit. He produces (50 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 INT and a forced fumble to this point this year), and he's one of the biggest and most athletic linebackers in the country. Big linebackers that can run are a rare commodity in the NFL, and when you add in his experience, leadership and scheme versatility, McClain will almost certainly be the first linebacker off the board. He can play inside in a 3-4 or a 4-3, and he'll captain a defense at the NFL level. His potential is vast.
10. Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse. Who else is as genuinely excited about the fact that we've got a fourth defensive tackle on this last as I am? Jones' stock continues to slowly rise in his senior season at Syracuse, which remains one of the worst football programs in the nation (though things are certainly looking up for the program under head coach Doug Marrone). The 6'3", 295-pound senior was considered a high-round prospect entering the season, but his stock has never been higher - he's not the biggest guy, but he plays with great power and leverage, and like the first two tackles on this list, he always seems to be around the ball despite receiving more attention than any of his SU teammates. The fact that he has the body type to play inside in a 4-3 or, more importantly, end in a 3-4, will do more for his draft stock than anything else. Again, Jones has the look of an instant-impact defender at the NFL level.
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Comments
Ndumakong Suh, DT, Nebraska.
YES PLEASE!!!!
the more I think about it, the Bills need an interior lineman and OL in this upcoming draft. The line play has been next to atroucious this season.
1. DL
1A. LB
3. LT/RT
by Michael_Necci on Oct 22, 2009 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wait, our D-Line? i thought they’ve played very well this year. it’s the LBs that aren’t performing.
EDWARDS THE NEW PISTOL , OWENS THE BAD SLAYER , EVANS THE FLYING METEOR AND COMING SOON THE BEAST MODE THIS IS SPARBUFONIA - abayarde
by the_prophet on Oct 22, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The D-line is first to see the runner.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 22, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which would you prefer to have, stroud/williams/schobel/kelsay or corto/ellison/poz? i’d take the line over the LBs any day of the week, even when they were all healthy. williams and stroud are one of the top-performing DT combos in football right now, and the line’s probably performing close to the best line (stats-wise) in the league – probably top ten or so.
EDWARDS THE NEW PISTOL , OWENS THE BAD SLAYER , EVANS THE FLYING METEOR AND COMING SOON THE BEAST MODE THIS IS SPARBUFONIA - abayarde
by the_prophet on Oct 22, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The safeties havn’t done them any favors either. They definitely miss Whitner and Scott out there.
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by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i watched a few of the long runs the last few games. every single one was a result of a horrid angle by the safeties.
play and learn. when byrd is a few seasons in, he’ll be a monster. he’s pretty streaky now, but he hits pretty well. whitner is definitely missed – wilson is fun to watch play, but he’s nowhere near where whitner is.
EDWARDS THE NEW PISTOL , OWENS THE BAD SLAYER , EVANS THE FLYING METEOR AND COMING SOON THE BEAST MODE THIS IS SPARBUFONIA - abayarde
by the_prophet on Oct 23, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the LB's being out of position
Long runs aren’t always the fault of the secondary. The RB has to break through something….the holes Thomas Jones had were ridiculous.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 23, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d go so far as to say they should take the best lineman at their position in the draft. Defensive or offensive. Then continue that trend until we have as many linemen as DBs on this team
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love for them to take Aurthur Jones, two reason. 1.) Hes a solid player that can fit our 4-3, or 3-4 with a possible front office change. 2.) Its a PR move, drawing even more people from the middle of NY to the Bills. I live in Syracuse, and while there are plenty of Bills fans here, there are just as many Jets/Giants fans.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Oct 22, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If this were the south and Arthur Jones was named Tim Tebow
it would be a PR move but you’re not going to move more season tickets because the Bills brought in a DT from Syracuse.
by twoeightnine on Oct 22, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he ends up being a solid player, why not? I forgot to mention the solid Philly fanbase here too, that travel to watch them play because of one player.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Oct 22, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're talking about one of the top QBs of the past fews years who was a household name,
a Heisman candidate, at a marquee position who played on a Syracuse team that people cared about. My mom knows who Donovan McNabb is. I watch Cuse football when I’m sick on the couch and the rest of the games are boring and I’ve yet to once say, I’ve gotta pay for a ticket to see Arthur Jones play.
by twoeightnine on Oct 22, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess thats just where your opinion and mine differs, because I have season ’Cuse tickets, to see players like Arthur Jones, Mike Williams, and Greg Paulus play. All of which who will end up in the NFL.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Oct 22, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol. greg paulus in the nfl? really?
cmon now, it’s too early for trolling.
"X right, 25 z blast double fox. and remember guys, you don’t move until i yell hike." -Trent Edwards, improving offensive line penalties since 2009.
by quantumuprising on Oct 22, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green Bay looked at him last year, before he even decided to return to college. So yeah, Paulus might not be drafted, but an NFL team will probably, at a minimum, invite him to camp.
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by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really boot me for comments about greg paulus and jimmy clausen? cmon now, what is this?
yes, paulus was looked at by green bay, etc. but that was before he is so far 2-4 with more int’s than td’s, and hasn’t shown much in the way of a strong arm.
"X right, 25 z blast double fox. and remember guys, you don’t move until i yell hike." -Trent Edwards, improving offensive line penalties since 2009.
by quantumuprising on Oct 22, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, didn’t boot you, buddy. Obviously.
And as far as Paulus goes, it’s kind of a big deal that he hasn’t played football since HS. If he closes strong, I’m 100% sure he’ll end up in a training camp somewhere.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you didn’t boot me, but I had to rejoin, and I was warned, all for saying a guy looked like he hadn’t watched a game. That ain’t right.
And even if Paulus does get an invite to a training camp, that doesn’t mean he will ‘end up in the nfl.’ he’s got leadership intangibles, but not football intangibles. that doesn’t guarantee anything.
"X right, 25 z blast double fox. and remember guys, you don’t move until i yell hike." -Trent Edwards, improving offensive line penalties since 2009.
by quantumuprising on Oct 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love for Buffalo to at least look at Paulus. A kid born and raised in ’Cuse, and playing D1 ball there would grab some fan interest.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Oct 22, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was born in Ohio
and makes Trent look like Joe Montana nowadays.
by twoeightnine on Oct 22, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok well he played highschool ball here atleast
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
by howedyhowe on Oct 22, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s never too early for trolling! :D
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clausen
Clausen’s stock is rising….but the weapons and OL he has IMO is the main reason for his 3rd year success. His OL is massive and beastly and the playmakers on the outisde are electric. Clausen definitely needs another year in school and his mental makeup scares me.
Locker is an interesting top prospect. All the physical gifts in the world, but where is his head at? He too is another guy that needs another year in school.
This is not the year to get a QB. So let’s go win 7-10 games Bills and not be picking in the top 10.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 9:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and
Suh is the clear #1 prospect in my book. When you can get a DT that is that consisent, and that dominant and has a good head on his shoulders….that guy is not some Glen Dorsey, he is unlike any DT to come out in the last decade
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clausen definitely needs another year in school and his mental makeup scares me.
I, for one, would love to hear a clarification on that last point.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
clausen
I think his first two years he was a lost soul that had no clue how to handle adversity and was a poor teammate. I think he is starting to come into his own and figure out how to be a leader, be calm under pressure, all those things. I just think he needs 12 more games next year to continue to improve on those attributes as a leader or he has no shot in the NFL. He played well when it counted in the 4th quarter of most games this year, including USC last week. You can tell he is starting to see defenses and the checks. But this guy has been babied his whole life and told how good he is. Going through 2 years of rough times, and now getting a team around him that he can make some plays is a step in the right direction. But I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole in the top 10 of next year’s draft IMO…he needs time badly in college and needs the starts
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor teammate?
I’ve never heard or seen anything to suggest Clausen was ever a poor teammate. Do you have any proof of this? I agree that he had no idea how to handle adversity and he was babied as you put it his whole life. I think the fact that he got knocked around for 2 years has made him a better man and QB. He knows what it’s like to get crushed and makes some pretty good decisions under pressure. I also agree that it would behoove him to return and play another 12 games under Weiss. At the least, Weiss is a good developer of QBs and you may be playing for a worse coordinator in the pros, so soak up as much egg-man as you can.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weis is a good developer of QBs named Tom Brady.
Unless we’re talking about a 36 year old Vinny Testaverde, Rick Mirer or Ray Lucas.
by twoeightnine on Oct 22, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or brady quinn?
Of course Quinn got drafted by the worst team possible besides the Bills. What I mean by poor teammate is that he read his own news clippings so much that he thought he didn’t have to work as hard coming into college. His poor preparation and arrogance led to some rocky times at ND. I’m not blaming the kid, bc he was looked at as God’s gift to Quarterbacking. I just sincerely think he needs to accumulate more starts. For a franchise like the Bills, if we are going to draft a young QB, we sure as hell better find an OC and QB coach who know how to mold the kid. Without that, whoever we draft is going to suck
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I still think we should take a lineman in the first round but that’s off-topic. I wouldn’t take shots at his preparation. That is largely a coaching problem and I don’t think he ever showed poor preparation. He just made many mistakes on the field. He was and is still definitely arrogant, but to be honest that’s not a bad thing. I want a QB that says we’re gonna win 4 national championships. I watched every game the kid has ever played in college and I don’t think that a lack of preparation led to his disastrous first two years there. Just poor play and a lack of experience against actualy defensive pressure. That doesn’t really make him a bad teammate in my eyes. I also don’t think he ever thought he didn’t have to work hard. He spends his entire off-season, summer included, working with a personal QB coach (the same guy who has coached, and still coaches to some extent, Leinart, Roethlisberger, Matt Cassel, Kyle Orton, Matt Barkley, Jacke Locker, Dayne Crist, Nick Montana, among others) as well as strength and conditioning.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
but one yeareth does not make a man!
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Look, I’m not proclaiming Jimmy Clausen the best QB in the draft. In fact I don’t think he’ll even enter. I was simply defending the things you said about him about being a bad teammate and not preparing for games. I’m a huge Notre Dame and Clausen fan, but I do not think he is NFL ready now. Also, to defend your statement below that he has the most offensive talent in the nation. I would say no way. His RBs have been injured every game but the first. His best receiver went down in week 3 and he has been hit fairly often and been banged up all year because of it. His offensive line is experienced, but not great. I would say he has one of the best receivers in the land and the best tight end, but I would not say most offensive talent when their #2 wideout is Robby Paris. And when he got hurt, Duval Kumara was that man. He repeatedly drops the ball and is the reason they didn’t score at the end of the USC game because he stumbled on his route on the final play. Great offensive talent, yes. The most offensive talent in the nation, no.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To his credit also, he has become better since Floyd went down, which I thought would be the opposite because of the unreal talent of Floyd.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think you could have made the argument that he had the most talented weapons in the country when Floyd was around, but Clauson hasn’t skipped a beat since he went down. Tate is terrific, especially after the catch and Rudolph is a good TE (slowly working towards being an exceptional one). So right now, Clauson has one star (Tate) and a 2nd reliable player (Randolph), but everybody else is just another player, so I don’t see how Clauson is working with that much more than guys like Bradford, McCoy, Pike and Tebow.
I think the OL is pretty overrated too. Paul Duncan is a really mediocre LT. I think Sam Young is one of the most overrated prospects in this draft and I’ve seen him struggle some in pass pro and the interior of the line is solid, but it’s not spectacular or anything. It’s a good OL, but it’s not like Clauson has all day to pick defenses apart like Bradford did last year.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Psst… Rakes of Mallow. :)
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Brian!
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if Rudolph is the best TE – I mean, he’s only a soph – but yeah, he’s gonna be absolutely fantastic. He’s getting close to it already.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I got ahead of myself
But he’s definitely following Fasano and Carlsen to the NFL that’s for sure.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So isn't that a good thing?
Overcoming his early struggles and taking control of his team….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 22, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I thought
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your banking
on a guy with a few good games under his belt with The MOST OFFENSIVE talent in the nation? No thanks
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offensive talent thing is legitimate. But it’s not like he wouldn’t have talent around him in the NFL. You can’t really take a guy to task for taking advantage of his surrounding talent, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
you can’t. I just think it’s too much coinicidence for me that is he now coming around when all the pieces are in places. And whatever team he goes to is going to be significantly rebuilding, and he’ll have to go through the same adversities x 100 that he went through in years 1-2 at ND. He is growing on me definitely, but I guess I need to see how the rest of this season plays out first.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 22, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a new coach is brought in, and he is Gruden, you can be sure he won’t allow them to take a QB. He loves him some journeyman.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 22, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explained below in response to Der Jaeger.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree and Disagree
Player’s who’s position is justified:
-Clausen, Suh, McCoy, Berry, Locker, Bulaga
That’s not to say that the other four are bad… I just don’t see them as Top 10 prospects.
Mallett is premature. I’ve seen him twice now and have shared notes, so you all know that I think he’s good. But if he came out, he’s a 20th overall type of guy. Too much left for him to learn.
I see Cody maxing around 15th overall unless he loses weight. Similar situation to Wilfork in 2004- do you spend a high draft choice on a 2 down NT, or wait and get someone in the second round that can do a similar job (Kris Jenkins, Gabe Watson, Ron Brace, etc). Cody’s talent alone won’t crack the top ten either.
McClain is good, but this ranking means we’re grading him even with or ahead of Patrick Willis, who went 10th overall in a weaker draft? I think he’s a first rounder, but I also have Sean Weatherspoon graded ahead of him. And MLB’s tend to slip- Maualuga and Laurinaitis were sure-fire first rounders in almost everyone’s mocks, and look where they went. I don’t see McClain in the top ten.
Arthur Jones is not a top ten prospect. His talent or play doesn’t merit a top ten grade.
Guys who should have made this list:
Taylor Mays. Does anyone really think that a 6-3/235 free safety with his speed, and the tremendous track record he has, is going to fall out of the top ten? Scouts have years of tape to watch on him, where he’s played tremendous. To see his impact, watch the USC-Cal game, and then decide. The guy has bust potential, but he also could be the next Sean Taylor.
Russell Okung. Best OL talent in the country, with no disrespect to Trent Williams or Bulaga, who are both also tremendous. Had a bad game against Von Miller, which leaves some questions in my mind, but not enough to fall from the top ten.
Dez Bryant. He’s a better prospect than Crabtree, with similar size and better speed. He’s proven that he can take hits over the middle (see Georgia game) and can play special teams. The Deion Sanders thing won’t hurt him at all come draft day.
Split on my #10 guy between Trent Williams and Marvin Austin. Williams is another OT playing well. Austin is a better physical talent (reportedly can run a 4.8 as a 300 pound DT) but has somewhat underachieved at this point.
I have pulled Carlos Dunlap from my Top Ten. If you’re making a DE, he’s the final product. He’s just not playing to potential at this point.
Guys who are close to top ten:
Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas. I like him better than most of the draft publications. He’s a smaller Merriman IMO, and is better than Orakpo. I think he’ll surge later in the draft process.
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State. If he runs well, he’s top ten. As big as Tyson Jackson, plays harder.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bryant’s suspension situation kept him off the list, but he’s certainly a tremendous talent.
I actually tweaked this list right before I wrote the post, and I took Mays off. Obviously he’s a tremendous talent, but I’ll echo something WABillsfan said to me via email last night – he’s a coverage liability. I don’t like putting guys with liabilities at the top of my draft board, unless they’re quarterbacks, because quarterbacks get bumped by necessity.
Okung and Marvin Austin barely missed as well. Austin has really come on, but I think Arthur Jones is just a more dependable option at this point – remember, this is a right now list, as opposed to a “what we’ll see in April” list. I’m not as high on Okung as you are – I do not consider him the best lineman in the country. (Obviously.) I don’t like Trent Williams much, either, though his steady improvement at LT is nudging him up the board. Bulaga is the only clear Top 10 O-Lineman to me, but I consider a bunch to be Top 25, including Okung and Williams.
On Cody: there are a couple of other massive DT prospects that could fill that late-first/early-second NT role (like Baylor’s Phil Taylor), but Cody isn’t exactly the Ron Brace type, either. B.J. Raji went No. 9 last year. Cody won’t last much longer – he’s not the athlete Raji is, but he’s a difference-maker as a 3-4 nose. Also: let’s not forget that Denver has Chicago’s first-round pick next year. I don’t think Chicago is great, and if they end up in the 12-20 range, Denver has the ammo to move up for Cody and plug him into the middle of Mike Nolan’s already-awesome defense. For a team that’s closer to winning a championship than other teams, Cody makes a ton of sense early.
I’m really disappointed with all of the ends this year. Dunlap, Kindle and Heyward have all let me down in reviewing them. I didn’t have any DE close to making this list, but Dunlap is the closest.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rodney Harrison was also a coverage liability at times. But he was a game changer, and that’s why I include Mays. And I disagree that he’s a liability in coverage- he’s not as instinctive as Berry, but a liability? Also, he’s the guy USC dedicated to stopping Jahvid Best by walking him up in run support. Granted, USC’s front seven is good, but Mays made some great open-field tackles and coverage against Best.
We disagree on Okung and Williams-none of my mocks have them dropping outside the top 15 picks. Another OT heavy first part of the draft.
Raji was a 330 pound guy who could move, and he went 9th. I don’t see Cody going higher. Agree that there is demand for a big NT, and that will probably get him drafted higher than his grade, but his talent isn’t top 10 worthy.
I disagree on Jones- dependability doesn’t get guys drafted higher. Mike Patterson was dependable- that didn’t get him any higher than late first round to Phily, which is the area my mocks have Jones going.
I’m disappointed with Dunlap, but Kindle and Heyward? When I watched them they were both outstanding. Interested to read your thoughts on them.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m disappointed with Dunlap, but Kindle and Heyward? When I watched them they were both outstanding. Interested to read your thoughts on them.
Don’t get me wrong, I like them both. Kind of. I like Heyward more, but he, like Dunlap, tends to disappear from games. I hate hearing that when talking about a top-flight, rare athlete.
Kindle at this point is a one-trick pony. He’s got a good first step, but he gets swallowed up by blockers way too easily, and doesn’t have much of a closing burst IMO. Unlike Maybin – who I viewed kind of in the same light – I don’t think Kindle can play end in a 4-3 at the NFL level. I think he’s more of a true linebacker, and he might eventually evolve into a 3-4 pass rusher if he can, you know, become a better pass rusher.
Right now, Eric Norwood is, to me, by far the best 3-4 rush prospect in the nation. Jason Worilds, Ricky Sapp, Jerry Hughes, Bruce Carter are all solid too. In terms of pure 4-3 ends, give me Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul, Greg Hardy, etc. Kindle fits in well with the 3-4 group, but I have him behind Norwood. Heyward fits in with the latter group, but he fits in with the 3-4 end group better, and that could pump him up boards.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll need to relook Heyward- I’ve seen him come hard every game I’ve seen him. He’s also being played as a 3-4 DE by Ohio State at times, so he may be eating blocks.
I don’t see Kindle as a DE at all. OLB strictly. The times I’ve seen Kindle, he couldn’t be blocked unless it was an OT, and even then, against Colorado, he manhandled Nate Solder. I didn’t see him against Trent Williams though. I was impressed with his first step and didn’t notice any issues with closing.
I don’t know where Norwood is going to end up. He’s not the NFL prototypical OLB like Sapp and Kindle. But he plays better. Same kind of situation with David Pollack in 2005. Pollack went to Cincinnati mid first round, but it was a weak draft for talent depth, and I have Norwood going late first to early second in my mocks.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw bits and pieces of Texas v OU and Kindle played on the opposite side of the field as Williams did on almost every snap and mostly played as a standup pass rusher. He was pretty dominant, but he never really got a chance to go head to head with Williams when I was watching.
I like Kindle a little more than Brian, but I’m not sure he stands out above Norwood, Worilds and Hughes much or at all. I think Norwood’s height is the only thing holding him back from being a prototypical 3-4 OLB and after watching Elvis Dumervil dominate people in his first season in a 3-4, I think Norwood is a solid mid-late first round prospect, Kindle is a hair behind him and Worilds and Hughes are 2nd round prospects who wouldn’t be a reach at the very end of the first round.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Norwood is the best 3-4 OLB in the draft in terms of production. Kindle is the best in terms of physical tools, IMO. I don’t think Worilds or Hughes, or even Sapp, have the first step and explosiveness that Kindle has.
Similar to 2005, Pollack was the best edge rusher in terms of production, especially considering who he beat-up in the games (a lot of drafted players). But Merriman and Ware went before Pollack because of their potential at the NFL level. Which is why I think Kindle will get drafted before Norwood.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Brian’s criticisms of Kindle though. I think Norwood is stronger, better at shedding and disengaging, and matches Kindle’s speed and ability to go sideline to sideline. I think Ware and Merriman were across the board better than Pollack. And Kindle definitely has the best first step in the draft.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're going to have to disagree
I don’t see Norwood’s physical measurable’s being equal to Kindle’s. I see Kindle running in the 4.6’s with a good 10-yard split. I don’t see Norwood running that fast. Also, Norwood’s frame isn’t such that he can add much more weight, where Kindle looks muscular but thin for his frame. Evaluators and decision makers will look at Kindle’s explosiveness as better, and understand that he can get stronger and get better at technique.
To paraphrase some scouting reports, Norwood is a rolling ball of energy and movement. His instincts are better, and he gets around the field quicker because of them. He’s flat out hard to play against. I’d rather have Norwood than Kindle for these reasons alone (same reason I liked Pollack) but I think Kindle goes higher.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we’re pretty close actually. I’d guess that Kindle goes before Norwood too; although, I’d bet they’re selected pretty close to each other. I agree that Kindle is a better athlete, I just think that as a run defender, Norwood uses his abilities to get sideline to sideline as well as Kindle does. So for me, that first step is really the only thing that Kindle does better than Norwood and everything else is either very close or Norwood does it better.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I agree with our rankings
The draft tends to grade guys who get to the QB higher than guys that go sideline to sideline. And even the potential to get to the QB gets guys drafted higher.
BTW, I fully intend to address the other conversation we had about player rankings. After reading what I wrote, I did a piss-poor job explaining. I don’t have my notes with my (still at work) but once I get home I’ll try to find some time to explain myself better. The Sabres don’t play tonight . . .
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree about Mays
Reminds me a lot of Sean Taylor. Basically a Troy Polamalu with less play-making prowess. USC allows their safeties to just fly all over and make plays. For as many thunderous hits that Mays makes or great plays in general, he blows as many coverages. Not to say he gets burned every time, but he leaves receivers wide open all the time. Now, Polamalu does the same thing and makes up for it with tremendous speed and reading the QB well, and makes so many great plays that he is still extraordinary.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Nolan will be coaching the Bills next season :-)
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
by Joe P. on Oct 22, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God I hope not
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.....just a feeling I have.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
by Joe P. on Oct 22, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats just gas
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 24, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that Bryant should be in the top 10. I did one last night (in anticipation of this list, just to see how it compared before reading people’s comments) and Bryant was 8th on my list. He could easily be higher than that too.
I put Cody in my top 10 (9th overall), but did it with the disclaimer that he’s an average prospect if not used correctly. You can build an entire defense around him which isn’t something you can say about other guys who will be available in the middle of the first round. A team running a 3-4 couldn’t take Cody too early.
I’m not sure that Mays is the coverage liability he’s being made out to be. USC has kept him almost exclusively in centerfield, mostly playing cover 1. And he covers a ton of ground doing that. I think he often looks like a liability in coverage because of how much USC asks him to do. He’s going to get tested in man coverage big time at the senior bowl because he does so little of it at USC. If he handles that well, then he should be a lock top 10 prospect.
McClain is good, but this ranking means we’re grading him even with or ahead of Patrick Willis
I disagree on that. This is a list of the best draft prospects and not a prediction of the order they will be taken. And you can’t look back and compare where guys went in other drafts to where guys are listed because lists go to hell when the draft starts and need becomes such a big issue. And as good as this draft might be, 2007 might have had a stronger group of prospects in the top 5-10 range. Adrian Peterson fell to 7th that year because of an upright running style and a shoulder injury, that doesn’t mean we can never list a RB in the top 7 again.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you can’t look back and compare where guys went in other drafts to where guys are listed because lists go to hell when the draft starts and need becomes such a big issue.
Sure you can compare. The top two prospects in the 2007 draft were Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson, and both could have been the first pick overall, grade wise, in almost any year.
But the grades from year to year can be predicted. Let’s say Willis hold a grade of 1.1. or 1.2. grade, meaning a team grades him on the top half of the first round. Willis goes 10th overall. That draft may only product 20-25 players that carry first round graded. The 2007 draft was one of those drafts.
2010 is different in that 30-35 players may carry first round grades. So, unless a team truly thinks McClain is a better prospect than Willis, placing McClain in the top 10 means he’ll have to carry at least a 1.1 grade.
Teams don’t throw their boards out the window once the draft starts. Their boards may be different, as team will consider players undraftable due to character, injury, or bad fit for their system. That may make it seem like draft boards are out the window to viewers of the draft. But it’s not the case. Teams stick their boards- they put too much thought into them to deviate too far.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that teams stick to their draft boards, but we’re not making a board for a specific team here. It’s different listing the best players in the draft without considering scheme and position need. So if we make a draft board without considering those things, it’ll end up all over the place as other teams consider scheme and need. Terrance Cody could go in the top 10 or in the 2nd round depending on what a handful of teams decide to do with him, but that doesn’t change his grade.
I guess I don’t understand the Willis argument. He went 10th, it doesn’t mean that McClain has to be as good as Willis to be the 10th best player in this draft. Your assuming that Willis was actually graded out as the 10th best. Adrain Peterson went 7th, but you treat him like he was the best or second best prospect in the draft. Couldn’t Willis have been the 5th best prospect that year, but fell because Peterson fell, Miami reached on Ginn, Atlanta was desperate for a DE, etc….? I don’t understand how saying that Peterson went 7th, so for a RB to be in somebody’s top 7, they have to be as good as Peterson would be any different than what you are saying with Willis and McClain.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grading
I’m not a huge fan of the way the Bills grade players. They grade similar to the “1.1” system I used above, which means that a player is a first round talent, graded in the top third. I like a numerical system that allows for more deviation between players, where you assign value to things the player can and can’t do, and grade from there.
(Note: I like to have a scientific system to rank players on the draft board, and then deviate off intuition, recommendations of coaches and scouts, etc. from the draft board. It allows you to compare over time, with more precise data. It also allows you to digitize a mock draft, and create a “draft range” for each player to better target them. EG: a certain player with a 6.35 grade has a range of 8th overall to 15th overall. This helps in planning and anticipating draft day selections and trades- including the onces that you need to make to get players you target. It’s why I do multiple mocks over the season- to create that range, though it’s a pain in the a$$ to do manually. I can see why the Bills like their system, though, because it’s more reliant on the experience of the staff, though a precise system doesn’t discount it).
I don’t know if any team uses a precise system like that. But Joel Buchsbaum had a numerical system similar, and Nolan Nawrocki carries it over. It’s a 1-10 scale going two digits past the decimal point. It adjusts per draft, but on average, any player receiving a 6.00 or better is a first round type of player.
I’ll use Buchsbaum’s system and his grading for this example, since it creates a common ground, but any data from anyone’s draft system will work (if you consider the data reliable). I’d use my own, but going overseas have created gaps in my records that I can’t ever fill- so I consider my own records unreliable over time on the grounds of incompleteness.
Tenth Best Prospects, by draft year, with top rated prospects:
2002: Donte Stallworth, 6.30, selected 13th overall
(Top rated Prospect: David Carr 7.10)
-Note: last year Buchsbaum graded before passing away; some grade deviation may have occured
2003: Marcus Trufant, 6.40, selected 11th overall
(Top rated prospect: Carson Palmer 6.60)
2004: Ben Roethlisberger, 6.60, selected 11th overall
(Top rated prospect: Kellen Winslow 7.00)
2005: Shawn Merriman, 6.55, selected 12th overall
(Top rated prospect: Alex Smith 6.80)
2006: Haloti Ngata, 6.60, selected 12th overall
(Top rated prospect: Reggie Bush 8.50)
2007: Patrick Willis, 6.50, drafted 11th overall
(Top rated prospect: Calvin Johnson, 8.50)
You see some deviation between the grades at the top of the draft. But gnerally, around 10th overall, they even out around 6.50 (the average is 6.49 over the time span).
Reasoning for this: the best talent may vary from year to year. Also, the depth of each year will vary with the amount of graded first rounders. But when you get around the 10th – 20th selections, the level of talent evens out, in general.
Conclusion: the 10th player in any given draft year will be given a grade of 6.50 according to Buchsbaum’s (Nawrocki’s) system. Patrick Willis received a 6.50. If you rate Rolando McClain in your top 10, he needs a similar grade, or better, than Willis.
Hope this better explains.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a great explanation of the grading system and a decent explanation of the whole Willis/McClain situation.
And maybe I’m taking a simplified approach, but I still don’t understand how McClain has to be as good of a prospect as Willis to be a top 10 prospect. Like I half mentioned earlier, I’m not at all impressed with the 8-15 prospect range this year (or at least right now). I think the 5th to 10th best prospects in 2007 were better than the guys I was looking at while making this list. So for me, I feel like I can have McClain 10th and still not quite consider him at the level of Willis. And I actually don’t have McClain in my own top 10. I don’t have a concise list, but I’d put him in the 11-15 range.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 23, 2009 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a Razorbacks guy and as much as I like Mallett for the Hogs, you’re exactly right about him. He’s very tall, got great arm strength, but is a bit inaccurate. We’ll have to check back in him after a year goes by, maybe two.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Oct 22, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
SEC football
As a Gator fan that enjoys SEC football I can attest to the fact that Safety Berry and DT Cody are true game changing dominate college players.
If it was my choice for a DT it would be Cody based on his ability and size, enough of the 300 lb DT’s that get pushed around at the pro level.
"If you don't have good habits you have bad habits there are no in between habits"
by Goose22 on Oct 22, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Quick hits
Locker and Clausen I fear will both return. I’m almost 100% sure at this point that Clausen will be returning. Then again, I have been wrong before. I still think that this is a very accurate list of the potential draft talent. Mallet has star potential, but definitely needs to mature. However, Bobby Petrino QBs have flashed gaudy numbers before and not amounted to anything in the NFL. I think Cody is the most NFL ready of all these DLs. Suh is a beast, but he plays DT now, and really projects much more as a DE in a 3-4 to me. McCoy is a giant, but I’m wary of any defensive players from the pass-heavy Big 12. I think you can’t go wrong with Rolando McClain either. He is a pure beast on the field, drives through his tackles and is always around the football. Could play any LB position in the NFL in my opinion.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The big question is simply this: What will the new CBA include come this spring?
If your a potential top 20 pick in this upcoming draft, and the new CBA will include a rookie salary cap starting in 2011, then your coming out no matter what for the money. If the new CBA does not include a cap, or there is no CBA, then we will see Locker and Claussen return. But in the end, money will talk, and talk loudly.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Fewell, common sense says to play UP on the line against the slant.
by WABillsfan on Oct 22, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on that
If it were all about the money, than Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, etc, etc would never ever have come back to school once they were eligible for the NFL draft. The signing bonuses alone for a first round pick would have these guys set for LIFE. Bradford didn’t return so he could be the undisputed #1 pick. In fact, I bet if he could do that all over again he might rethink that whole situation. He returned to play college football; to try and win a national championship. He probably would have been the #1 overall pick in last year’s draft, if not right behind Stafford. Money talks, but so do National Championship dreams.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but let me ask you this
Does Locker or Claussen have a real honest to goodness chance to win the BCS this year or next? No, so I think we see them go for the green. Bradford DID have a good shot at it if Gresham had managed to stay healthy.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Fewell, common sense says to play UP on the line against the slant.
by WABillsfan on Oct 22, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Why don’t they have a shot? Certainly ND has a shot with all the young weapons around Clausen. As well as a young defense. That team doesn’t lose too much before next season. Clausen certainly thinks he has a shot, he said he’d win 4.
For that matter, I don’t see why UW doesn’t have a shot. Sure they aren’t overwhelming favorites to even win their conference, but Sarkisian is a winner and he is bringing in some nice recruiting classes. Not to mention, look at the progress he made with Locker in less than one year. The only teams that don’t have a shot to win the BCS are non-BCS teams, because they lose out to even 1-loss BCS conference teams. If you are in a BCS conference, or Notre Dame, then you have a shot if you win your conference and lose less than 2 games.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scouting Reports
Gents, this might be a little less than usual- my luck has been bad recently. I had a MRSA staph infection over the weekend and missed a bunch of games, but here’s what I saw:
Cincinnati-South Florida
I was not as impressed with Tony Pike as I thought that I’d be, and for one reason- arm strength. His accuracy and decision making are top shelf. I just don’t see Pike as a first rounder with his arm. The ball almost floats out of his hand. And he throws that same floater on almost every route. Kudos to the kid for trying to play with his injury- love the grit. He needs a heck of a pro day to convince anyone that he doesn’t have a pop-gun arm.
Kurupt brought my attention to Jason Pierre-Paul, and it’s a good thing. He’s exactly the tall, angular type a 4-3 team would want manning the edge. Also could play OLB, as South Florida has their DE on the strong side in a two point stance on non-passing downs. But I see him as a DE, which maximizes what he can do best- rush and pursuit. Hits hard. Long arms. Not refined, as he only shows a bull rush and an outside rip trying to take the edge. Has bounced around from college to college, so his knowledge base may be lacking, as he hasn’t benefited from working with a coaching staff over a period of time. Needs to get stronger, especially in the upper body. But he’s got all the physical skills to be a NFL DE, and a first rounder at some point.
George Selvie is playing his way out of the top two rounds. Didn’t show much against Cincinnati, where he was stopped by Jeff Linkenbach, who grades as a priority free agent right now.
South Carolina-Alabama
Mark Ingram is obviously playing well and is a great talent. I think we need to start taking a look at the Tide OL, especially guard Mike Johnson. Johnson doesn’t have the talent to go in the first two rounds, but he’s a solid pick later on who could make a team and end up starting and playing well for a long time.
Cody looks faster that he did last year, but doesn’t look smaller. He played Ted Washington style last year, but he’s really working to pursuit down the line from what I can see. He’s going to be in high demand for any 3-4 team without a NT, and will get drafted higher than his talent level. That said, he’s first round talent for sure. SC couldn’t move him off the line at all.
To me, Rolando McClain is ILB strictly. Not that he can’t play OLB, but that’s not utilizing his talent to it’s fullest, IMO. McClain is much better at making plays in front of him and rushing from the outside. When Alabama keeps him inside, he diagnoses correctly and almost immediately with almost no false steps- all movement is made going to the hole or play. He’s good in pass coverage as well, and is as sure of a tackler as I’ve seen.
Alabama took Eric Norwood out of the game with their running game. Ingram ran an entire drive out of the Wildcat at one point. Great game planning by Saban, as Norwood is a terror. I graded Norwood earlier this year and still stand by it, but he didn’t have much of a change to shine against Alabama. That can be said about a lot of defenders playing Alabama this year.
Ohio State-Wisconsin
This game was a tale of OT’s handling DE-OLB’s.
O’Brien Schofield was completely handled by Brian Bulaga. Schofield clearly was faster and, sort of, brought attention to Bulaga’s foot speed shuffling and kick-sliding. But Bulaga took Schofield out of the game completely. Noting the quickness in his feet- he’s not going to be confused with Anthony Munoz, but I grade his foot speed similar to Jake Long, as in “good, not great.” Bulaga’s positioning an technique were tremendous. Top Ten latent as noted above.
Schofield is strictly a OLB prospect IMO. He can’t anchor and hold the edge against OT’s.
On the other side of the ball, Clayborn was handled by Gabe Carimi when lined up against each other. Carimi plays LT but I see him more as a RT with his feet. But he swallowed up a pretty good DE in Clayborn. Carimi has long arms, a really good punch, and can anchor. If Carimi comes out not, I have him in the second round.
Sorry I don’t have more.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pierre-Paul is definitely an athletic freak. Reminds me of Kearse with his reach and height at 6’6" 260.
"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"
by willgarr15 on Oct 22, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am definitely as excited to see 4 DT!
I would really love for the Bills to grab a DT early on in the draft – I don’t watch college football enough to give an opinion. I am a big fan of Kyle Williams, but when I think of a really good DT next to Stroud, it makes me giddy. Also if the Bills don’t pick up a DT to get rid of McCargo then we are sitting on a 3 DT rotation – which in my opinion is why the D wears down in the 2nd half.
Right now DT and LB are the areas I would really like to see the Bills improve on.
I am saving judgement on WR until I see how Hardy does with whatever time he is given.
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Oct 22, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a huge Locker fan
I don’t like inaccurate QB’s who like to run a lot. They don’t tend to transition to the NFL all that well. I’d hate to draft a QB like him on potential. There’s something about him that just leaves me leery of him…
QB, OT, DT, LB, DE, WR….so many needs as always….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 22, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Locker runs mostly to save his life, and here is a running QB who has done well, McNabb
McNabb also wasn’t the most accurate passer alive either K, and Locker has had a heck of a lot less talent to work with than any other top QB in the country. If you gave him an Oline that didn’t leak and some truly talented WRs, his accuracy numbers would be a lot higher, his guys drop ALOT of catchable balls.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Fewell, common sense says to play UP on the line against the slant.
by WABillsfan on Oct 22, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm scared with a safety in your #5 spot.
I thought they’re set there?
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 22, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t a Bills-specific post. Players are ranked without even a seconds’ thought towards Buffalo’s potential needs.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about this. My bad. Still want NOTHING to do with a DB come 1st day 2010. =)
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 22, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a shame Mallett is only a Sophomore and is still not polished, because I’d have loved to see him in a Bills uniform, I think the guy has potential to be the face of a franchise if he can build on this year well.
Good thing it’s a decent QB draft coming up!
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good thing it’s a decent QB draft coming up!
It’ll be severely depleted if any of these guys (Locker, Clausen, obviously Mallett, and even Bradford) wise up and stay in school.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would doubt any of them come out, except for bradford.
Clausen will probably only come out if Weis is fired, otherwise, he stays.
Locker has a young team and a new coach who has brought them some wins, he probably stays as well.
I heard Bradford could apply for another year of eligibility, but considering the money he’s probably already lost by staying this year, i doubt he does it again.
"X right, 25 z blast double fox. and remember guys, you don’t move until i yell hike." -Trent Edwards, improving offensive line penalties since 2009.
by quantumuprising on Oct 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradford is a curious case, because I’ve little doubt that the NFL will advise him to stay at OU. He’s not the sure-fire No. 1 overall pick he would have been a year ago – not with that injury. If he stays at OU, he has a chance to boost himself back up the list with a strong senior season – but who knows what rookie salaries will look like at that point in time?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradford is actually only a junior. He was a redshirt sophomore last year when he was getting hyped as the number one pick. He’s got another year left if he wants it.
Whether or not any of these juniors come out will depend on their draft status more than anything. Guys don’t typically pass on the NFL if they are going to be a top 5 pick. Nobody thought Sanchez would come out at this time last year. I think it’s a very safe assumption that at least one of the three big jrs (Clauson, Locker, Bradford) declare and considering how weak the senior class is, two seems more likely than one.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the interesting piece of it will be whether these juniors / 3rd year sophmores think there will be a rookie pay scale in 2011 or, worse, a lockout.
If there is a legitimate concern that one or both might happen, I think we could see a ton of players come out, even if they think their draft status isn’t as high as it could be in 2011.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
by thatguy34 on Oct 22, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree. The question is whether there will be a prevailing opinion or whether everything is still up in the air come June. Either way, we should see more juniors declare than we typically do and this was already going to be a junior heavy draft.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point, but I’m hoping that not ALL of them stay in school. And there’s still a couple pretty good QB’s to go around in the 1st round.
Plus besides the Bills there’s not all that many teams that will have QB as a first priority. There’s the Rams… that’s really all I can remember. :/
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 22, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s actually about that time for us to start cheering against teams that definitely won’t draft a QB (Tampa Bay, Detroit, Kansas City) and start cheering for teams that definitely will (St Louis, Washington) or might (Oakland, Cleveland) to win some games.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 22, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is wise.
i agree.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 22, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Pike
Tony Pike is going to be a great pro, and the Bills haven’t had a QB who can recognize coverages as well as he can since JK.
Have to put him in front of all the QB’s on this list.
by kgun201 on Oct 22, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PIKE
I agree. I want to watch more of him but I think he moves like Flacco and Roethlisberger.
These quarterbacks don’t just display horizontal accuracy but I see them manipulate the trajectory of their passes.
Also, you can watch all three passers keep their heads and torso’s square to the receiver while they throw on the run.
What worries me about him is obviously the spread offense and to a lesser extent, injuries.
Hope that Bradford comes out so that Pike will be available later, maybe a second rounder or something. QBs always jump, whether justified or not.
by dav630 on Oct 22, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching him
You’d expect him to have a much bigger arm, but it just doesn’t seem to be there. He’s also very skinny. His arms would be skinny for a basketball player. I’m afraid a guy like that, who has had some injury concerns, would get absolutely destroyed behind the Bills’ OL. He’s pretty accurate, but I’m not that impressed by his pro prospects.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 22, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a little higher on him than you are. That offense doesn’t require a massive arm, and scouts have noticed that – but I think he’ll surprise some people at the Senior Bowl and at the Combine with how strong his arm is. Mechanics will help his velocity as well. I think he’s got the best touch of any QB in the nation right now not named Bradford, and he’s got ideal height and solid athleticism. I think he’ll make a fine pro, but he’s not seasoned enough to start right away, nor is his body ready to take a full 16-game pounding.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Pike as much as the next guy, but there’s no way he’s the best QB in the country. Not by a long shot.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too weary of spread quarterbacks. NFL scouts say over and over again that the ability for a qb to take snaps under center in college is a HUGE advantage, because making the reads is a COMPLETELY different process.
"X right, 25 z blast double fox. and remember guys, you don’t move until i yell hike." -Trent Edwards, improving offensive line penalties since 2009.
by quantumuprising on Oct 22, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you come up with this list?
Ryan Mallett is on this list? Why? Did you get that from a draftnick website or did you actually watch the Arkansas/Florida games where he was flappable and extremely inaccurate? He can definitely drill the football, but a top 10 prospect, right now?
The worst part of Mallett being on the list is that there were at least 3 players on the other sideline of that game that are leaps and bounds better pro prospects in Brandon Spikes, Carlos Dunlap, and Joe Haden. Are you a closet Gator-hater? ;) Living in FL, I see a lot of SEC football (and a lot of Big 10, too oddly enough), and Brandon Spikes is a bona fide monster at MLB. He’s unblockable and very complete (he even plays end on passing downs). And you lauded McClain for his size and athleticism, Spikes is an equivocal athlete and he’s even bigger than McClain (wtf mate?). Carlos Dunlap is a monster as well (6’6" 290 lbs) and he doesn’t produce as much as he could because UF plays a 3-3-5 most of the time, but he consistentlt gets pressure and stacks the run. He has Mario Williams type of potential.
Ok, I plugged my Gators (and know I wouldn’t risk my reputation to be a homer and plug players on my team if I couldn’t be intellectually honest about it). So, after watching Rolando McClain plsy MLB, that guy is simply awesome. He makes life miserable for every one on the opposing offense… he plays the underneath routes very well, covers the flats, stops the runs, gets off blocks. If I had to choose between he and Spikes I’d be freaking out. They’ll have to play out the rest of the season for me to decide that, and it may come down to a Bama/Florida SEC Championship game.
And I’d like to officially start the debate about Tim Tebow. It’s easy for people to discard consideration for him as a franchise QB because scouts are quick to critique his mechanics and footwork… which is all fair criticism. But, honestly, you don’t draft a guy FOR his mechanics. For all the things Tebow does, why would people doubt that he could refine his footwork and mechanics? I’ve felt the same way most have about him ever since I saw him start throwing passes at UF: I didn’t like his delivery, it doesn’t seem natural and I didn’t think he’d cut it in the NFL. But the bottom line is that he’s accurate. He’s completing 66% of his passes for his career. And Florida doesn’t have an offense full of easy throws, with virtually no checkdowns to skew the stats. He produces, and he produces in the biggest moments of the biggest games. He’s also probably the greatest leader the sport has ever seen. The man refuses to fail, and I can’t dismiss him anymore simply because of the typical mechanics/system hoohah. I’d draft him in a heartbeat and give him time to learn the pro game.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Oct 22, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For all the things Tebow does, why would people doubt that he could refine his footwork and mechanics? I’ve felt the same way most have about him ever since I saw him start throwing passes at UF: I didn’t like his delivery, it doesn’t seem natural and I didn’t think he’d cut it in the NFL. But the bottom line is that he’s accurate. He’s completing 66% of his passes for his career.
Two Words:
Bernie. Kosar.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Oct 22, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who was a fairly solid pro......
Bet JP Losman and Ryan Leaf wish they coulda had Kosar’s career.
"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 24, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll respond to everything! :)
Did you get that from a draftnick website or did you actually watch the Arkansas/Florida games where he was flappable and extremely inaccurate? He can definitely drill the football, but a top 10 prospect, right now?
I’ve seen Mallett play three times this season – last week against Florida, when they got crushed by ‘Bama, and when they clobbered Auburn. He’s been “flappable,” as you put it, in two of the three games I’ve seen him play – but he’s also made some astonishing throws, and he’s a really good athlete. Quarterbacks are necessarily bumped up the list in my book simply because of the position he plays. There’s no way he’d be a Top 10 pick this year, but that’s not the point of this list. His potential is ridiculous. Considering that the NFL is so weak at QB right now, absolutely, he’s one of the ten hottest prospects in the nation.
Are you a closet Gator-hater? ;)
Haha, absolutely not. Not in the least. I have a family member who attended UF, and I really enjoy watching them play. I don’t hold any CFB grudges.
Brandon Spikes is a bona fide monster at MLB. He’s unblockable and very complete (he even plays end on passing downs). And you lauded McClain for his size and athleticism, Spikes is an equivocal athlete and he’s even bigger than McClain (wtf mate?).
I thought Spikes was a Top 20 pick had he come out last year. I love him. I don’t think he runs as well as McClain does. He’s Top 25 for me right now, but I think McClain can play OLB, and Spikes will be limited to MLB. Scheme versatility is a big selling point with me, and it is with NFL scouts, too.
Carlos Dunlap is a monster as well (6’6" 290 lbs) and he doesn’t produce as much as he could because UF plays a 3-3-5 most of the time, but he consistentlt gets pressure and stacks the run. He has Mario Williams type of potential.
Yes he does. But his name has cooled off considerably since the beginning of the season. Production does count for something, and Dunlap has not produced to his potential – and he disappears, too. Again, he’s Top 20, maybe Top 15, but I’m pretty comfortable leaving him off of the loftier parts of this list until his production picks up.
Joe Haden, by the way, is my (and everyone else’s) top-rated CB. I have him No. 14 right now.
On Tim Tebow
Right now, I have him rated as the 6th-best QB in the nation. If I’m a fan of any NFL in need of a QB and my team spent a Round 1 pick on Tebow, I wouldn’t bat an eye. The only reason he ranks so low is the same reason why everyone else ranks him low – mechanics, throwing motion, etc. The only reason he ranks so highly is because he’s an unparalleled winner with a killer attitude, work ethic and intangibles – if he didn’t possess those, he wouldn’t even be draftable. He’s not an immediate starter, and I think that’s pretty clear. I think he has the ability to sponge up what coaches give him and fix his throwing mechanics. He definitely can take over an NFL locker room and turn it into a winning environment. But he’ll need, at an absolute bare minimum, a year in a system, with a year of scout teaming and mechanical coaching, to prepare to play QB in the NFL. I certainly don’t think he’ll fail to become a starter, but it will take time.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 22, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dang
agree 100% with what you said about tebow. i love tebow, and would love him to be a bill. i would also love it if he dropped to the upper third round (where we probably will be) and grab him there. haden is a beast, and will be a shut down corner in the nfl. dunlap has all but disappeared this year. i see cunningham make more plays in the big games than dunlap (maybe because they plan around dunlap). spikes is a beast also, and probably the top mlb IMO, but hes injured this year, so his stats and impact have dwindled.
as for mallet, he is gonna be the face of some lucky franchise. mallet has the physical attribute one would kill for in a qb, great height, awesome arm strength and ability to move IN the pocket (i stress in because hes not very fast and probably should only scramble if absolutely needed). sure some of his throws in the fl game were off, but thats the number 1 defense in the nation (some would argue). that one open pass he had to the fb is caught if hes throwing to a wr or te, and he also had a few dropped (as well as tebow). wr dropped passes all over the place that game for some reson. mallet knows when to throw that deep ball on a rope or loft it up there, something that i havent seen in years. tebow is getting better at it (as i always thought his weakness was the deep ball after watching him for 3 years). as for the other qbs, locker has potential, but i dont like drafting someone in the first round based on potential, id rather have tebow later on. i just dont know about that clausen kid. over-hyped? definitely, but is he starting to live up to it? possibly. his off the field decisions havent been stellar either (remember the beer pong incident?) bradford will come out, i think thats whole reason for his surgery this year, and again he has the physical attribute one kills for in a qb.
bottom line is where i think this qb pool is good, its not great. no one player is sure fire starter, unlike stafford and sanchez (despite recent struggles, i think sanchez will be a quality qb for a couple
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Oct 22, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tebow and religion
Whats the precedent for extremely religious guys and success in the NFL? It seems like it’d really bothersome for him to be surrounded by guys like Pacman or something.
All though its not like he lives at a monastery. UF is a pretty fun place to be.
I don’t know, I bet it’s not a concern, i was just curious.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 22, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kurt Warner
is pretty successful… Reggie White did pretty well… those 2 immediately come to mind.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Oct 23, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couple Points
Spikes is not an equal athletically of McClain. Spikes has fantastic instincts and he anticipates well. If we’re talking pure measurables, though, Spikes is a slow runner, has thin legs that won’t translate well to take on strength at the NFL level, and doesn’t flip his hips and drop into coverage well. In every mock I’ve done, Spikes ends up falling into the top five picks of the second round. Check out what happened to Laurinaitis and Maualuga. How many people thought they were “monsters.” Measurables matter in the draft process, and MLB with flaws will fall in the draft. But his instincts will serve him well, and in a 3-4 scheme, he’d make a good ILB.
Chris Long played in Virginia’s 30 front as a DE, and received more attention than Dunlap does now, because Long only had Clint Sintim for help. Dunlap has Cunningham, Spikes, and a host of great athletes on the UF defense. Production matters. A guy like Dunlap, with his size and skills, should be killing double teams all day, just like Suh does for Nebraska and just like McCoy does for OU. But he’s not. And that’s notable.
I absolutely admire Tebow and am a UF fan. I truly believe that his issues and flaws are correctable. But he’s not for every team. He needs a lot of work on footwork, mechanics, and reading keys which move him through his progressions. Tebow reads half the field right now, just like McCoy. He can’t do that in the pro’s. Can he and will he learn? No doubt. But he needs a lot of practice time with a patient coaching staff that stays for 3 years and doesn’t change the offensive system.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Tebow, if he gets picked by the right team, like say the Seahawks or the Vikings could be a real steal
But he MUST have a QB ahead of him who is nearing the end of his career and will be out of the way in a year or two at which point Tebow would have already asserted his dominance in the locker room on the O, and will be ready to step in and run the show because his mechanics would have been ironed out and they would have worked on his field vision.
But Tebow like you said Jaeger is NOT for every team, it will take a team with patience, good WRs and a QB coach who understands what it takes to develop a guy to his full potential. Hell, the Eagles and Patriots would be the best places for him to end up honestly.
As my mother once said, common sense isn't as common as it should be, I'm looking at you Fewell, common sense says to play UP on the line against the slant.
by WABillsfan on Oct 22, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree with all of this. The situation has to be just right for Tebow.
As much as I like Tebow, he’s not the QB for the Bills.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Spikes
I think it’s myopic to equate athelticism with speed alone. He won’t beat McClain in a wind sprint, but it doesn’t take him any longer to get to a ball carrier, you know what I’m saying. As for the skinny legs thing… don’t really know what to say about that other than, give me a break. And if Spikes falls to the 2nd round, then it’s steal, considering we got Poz there and as much as I love him, he won’t have the career randon Spikes is going to have, IMO.
On Dunlap… I’ve watched every snap of every Gator game, and Dunlap gets bear the QB on just about every pass rush. The Gators rarely blitz, and rarely allow opponents to sustain drives. Production counts, but is Tim Tebow playing poorly because he’s only thrown 8 TD’s so dar. No. You have to look at the big picture.
I hear you on Tebow, and I’m encouraged about him reading defenses. For example, on the TD to Riley Cooper in the Arkansas game, Tebow looked left at his 1st read and pulled the safety to the left, the looked back right and found him in the end zone. And then other times in that game he would look 1-2 and then scramble… but that might have had something to do with him getting sacked 5-6 times in that game.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Oct 22, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skinny legs: this may seem ridiculous to you, but it directly rates to the amount of muscle in a player’s legs, which is important in determining if a player is going to be able to take on blocks at the NFL level. At LB, it’s important, since LB’s often take on moving blockers, or those that outweigh them by 50 or more pounds.
Offensive linemen are looked at the same way to determine ability to anchor agasint a pass rush and ability to effectively drive block. Matt Tennant, for example, has these same concerns.
Defensive linemen are looked at in the same way to grade ability to dig in versus a double team.
In terms of athleticism, Spikes may get to the ball carrier as fast as McClain at the college level. But we aren’t grading their ability to play college football. We are projecting NFL ability. McClain is going to run faster, run the three-cone drill faster and the shuttles faster. He’ll also look more fluid in position drills. This is obvious just watching Spikes move and McClain move.
You may consider all this trivial. But an NFL team isn’t going to select a linebacker in the first round if he has any flaws. That’s not saying that Spikes won’t be a good NFL player- just that teams are going to be reluctant selecting a LB in the first round who may not have the ideal athleticism to move effectively at the NFL level.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 22, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop Reading so much, and trust your eyes
Leverage and strength are more important than the apparent thickness of a guy’s legs. I can guarentee you that Mr. Spikes can squat about 2 offensive linemen with those skinny legs.
And, this may seem ridiuculous to you, but the size of someone’s legs is not indicative of the strength in those legs. And that’s hilarious you brought skinny up, because Rolando McClain is a pretty lean and lanky, especially for a MLB. But hey, I guess I didn’t hear it from some scout website so it’s probably not true.
“Well, I don’t think we should draft Mr. Montana, he’s kind of skinny…” Yeah let’s just say I’d put that part of the evaluation toward the bottom of the list.
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Oct 23, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading so much? Guy, I watch enough football to know what I’m talking about. Sure, do I read some scouting reports from online source? But I always check it out for myself by watching the games.
Read my reports and then try to find out the sites where I “pulled” the info from.
Your last comment is a BS comment from a Florida homer who, IMO, knows little about the draft or the drafting process, from what you’ve written on this site.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 23, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't
mean for you to take it personally, just wanted a better reason for Spikes not translating to the NFL other than he has skinny legs. How does that make ME a homer?
"I don't agree with a damn thing you say, but I would die for your right to say it."
"If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it all over again."
by ForeignArrow on Oct 24, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did take it personally. You basically said that my reports/assessments were the product of reading other scouting reports. My reports are clearly not that- I annotate each game that I watch and what I saw, out in the open for anyone to disagree.
But an NFL team isn’t going to select a linebacker in the first round if he has any flaws. That’s not saying that Spikes won’t be a good NFL player- just that teams are going to be reluctant selecting a LB in the first round who may not have the ideal athleticism to move effectively at the NFL level.
What I said about Spikes wasn’t that he didn’t tranlate well to the NFL, just that his wasn’t going to be a first round pick.
I’ve been a UF fan for the past 24 years. If anything, my reports are a bit subjective, in a positive way, for any Florida player.
by Der Jaeger on Oct 24, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, I agree with about everything you said ForeignArrow
I love Spikes, and I think our draft position will be one to make him our most realistic first round selection at this point in the season . I suspect we will pick 13-22. Thats right in his range. Anything earlier your taking him too soon, anything after and he is gone. So i think its fair for me to get excited about us nabbing Spikes to end our linebacker woes.
Carlos Dunlap is a monster. your right. enough said.
I tried to start the Tebow debate and got chided for being a Tebow hugger. People are really anti-Tebow. I think hes worth a flier in the second round.
Good scouting Brian, thanks.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
by poz on Oct 23, 2009 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even with the Draft 6 months away, It’s time to do what I do not jump on the Bandwagon but start the bandwagon
And with that I start the Dan LeFevour Bandwagon.
Little background I’ve started one bandwagon since being on this blog that was last year’s Scott McKillop Bandwagon. It garnered one passenger me.
Now I will admit, I’m doing this because I went to Central Michigan (the school of Lefevour) and he’s the only quarterback I can follow consistently, living in Michigan. But also because every few years a Quarterback comes out of the MAC that makes a difference in 2000 it was Chad Pennington, 2003 Byron Leftwich, 2004 Ben Roethlisberger, 2010 Dan Lefevour.
You want a quarterback with size: he’s 6’3 238
You want a quarterback with experience: he’s a four year starter, from the first game of the season he came in as a freshman when the starting QB was knocked out by a Matt Ryan Led Boston College and Lefevour almost pulled the upset.
You want numbers how about 11,016 yards passing, 88 touchdowns, and a career completion percentage of 66.5 percent.
You want a quarterback who can run he’s only 2nd in NCAA history along with Vince Young to Throw for over 3000 yards in a season and rush for over a thousand. He has 2629 career rushing yards and 41 touchdowns.
Can he catch? Yes 58 yards and a touchdown.
Can he punt? (Moorman’s not going to be around 4 ever) Averaging 33 yards per punt.
He plays for the MAC, how’s the Level of Competition. The MAC as a conference plays up to their competition. Central Michigan is no different with the out of conference schedule. LeFevour has played Boston College, Kentucky, Kansas, Georgia ,(last year when they were #2), Clemson and the Big Ten 5 different times.
Results- Average wins per season 8, 2 Conference Titles, 3 Bowl Apperences 1 Bowl Win.
Intangibles the guy is just a good leader, his first season he took bunch of senior WR who had really done nothing up until that point and took them to and won Central’s first bowl game. He has a mental toughness, in playing bigger schools that have beat up on Central he doesn’t “spiral” he just goes back to work. He’s a constant, they’ve lost running backs, WR, defensive players, offensive linemen and he remains the same.
So that’s my pitch, and for all you Tony Pike fans. Dan LeFevour was Brian Kelly’s first NCAA Division 1 project. The guy knows quarterbacks. Just to be clear I don’t consider Dan LeFevour a 1st round or top 10 QB, but if the Bills took him 3rd-4th round he’d be a heck of a value pick. And if no one else jumps this band wagon it’ll be another, I’ll get though it, i’ll be ok.
Alright let your laughter and ridicule rain down upon me! Or you can jump on this bandwagon, powered by Buffalo wings and beef on wick!
by MichiganBillsFan84 on Oct 22, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I kind of agree. I’ve seen LeFev play one complete game and a few drives here and there. It’s kind of a gimmicky offense they run with bubble screens and other short passes. It’s an easy read offense (I’m hoping that phrase catches on, just say it in the same rythym you would easy bake oven). Lefevour typically doesn’t have to make NFL type decisions. He also has adequate, but below average arm strength. I think he’s an intriguing prospect and he might be the best of the later round tier (with Zac Robinson, Rusty Smith and some others), but I think he’s more of a 5th round guy than a 3rd rounder. Actually, I’d be shocked if a team drafted him in the third round. Then again, I think Colt McCoy is better than 50/50 to be available when the third round starts, so maybe I’m not the guy to listen to about QB draft value. I do like LeFev, but only in the last couple rounds.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 23, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally understand your point.
These are the same criticisms that he will have to answer at his pro-day, seinor bowl (if he gets invited) and at the combine (if he gets invitied). I can see where you going with the 5th round, I believe I heard the same thing from ESPN’s Tod McShay. But you have to understand, I’ve seen him play his whole career and he does have good arm strenghth you just don’t get the analysis of his cross field throws. I believe because of the offense, and offensive weapons, Central most of the time doesn’t have the need to lob it down the field the way some scouts might want to see.
I guess one thing you’d need to elaborate for me is what you mean by “NFL decisions.” This point my come up again in the draft and I like to be informed. Happy to know some he’s on other people’s radar too :^)
by MichiganBillsFan84 on Oct 23, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, when I say that Lefevour doesn’t make NFL decisions, it’s because he isn’t asked to and not because he isn’t capable of it.
What I mean is that his offense is based around plays that don’t require him to make NFL style reads. It’s loaded with screens and other simple decisions. He seems like he typically throws to his first read and the offense is designed to go straight to a check down when he doesn’t. Those checkdowns aren’t always to an RB, but hitting Antonio Brown for 5 yards and hoping he gets some yac is still a check down and easy read. I havn’t noticed many NFL style routes either. It’s a lot of screens and drags and other quick and easy decisions.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 23, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay I got you
Thanks for explaining that. Looking at there play selection you make a good point.
by MichiganBillsFan84 on Oct 24, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post
Alright let your laughter and ridicule rain down upon me! Or you can jump on this bandwagon, powered by Buffalo wings and beef on wick!
Why? You make a good case. I admit I have never seen LeFevour play before, but if the Bills don’t like some of the big name QBs and decide to roll with Edwards/trade for a QB/get a FA QB…..I would love to see the Bills take someone with upside but needs a little time.
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
by Joe P. on Oct 22, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it beef on weck?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 23, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, no candles involved.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 23, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What??? You have never taken a lady to a romantic dinner and said, "The Lady will have the Beef on Wick" ;-)
Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes
by Joe P. on Oct 23, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mt. Cody and McClain should be at the top of OBD’s list. They are both tremondous talents. Roll Tide Roll
by bwoog on Oct 22, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Suh
from Nebraska, but you have overlooked offensive tackle Russell Clung from Oklahoma State, not to mention Taylor Mays from USC. Gerald McCoy is another player I would love for the Bills to get, if not Suh. As bad as the run defense is, this should be high on their list!
A couple of other players I like are Brandon Spikes of Florida and Trent Williams, tackle from Oklahoma. Not sure if they would be in the top-10, though.
by BuffaloWhiner on Oct 23, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Go after players the Bills need, not players the Bills want.
After reading some of the other comments, I think the Bills should draft players they need instead of players the Bills want. Draft a Defensive Tackle that will shut down the run first of all. Someone who can dominate a game, weigh in at 310 lbs., 6’4" in height, built in the mold of Ted Washington, Sam Adams, Fred Smerlas or Pat Williams. I wished John McCargo would have played to his capacity but Kyle Williams beat him out for the position. If this happens, the Bills would have to get rid of McCargo and Stroud for next year. Second, strengthen your defense & offense by picking a ILB and OT. The way our injury report looks after games, shows our OT and ILB have the most injuries. Ouarterback is questionable; Clausen maybe good at Notre Dame with Charlie Weis, but against teams with high calipher he fails, once again look in the 3rd round to see what is available. Do not spend your money on players you want, but players you need. Remember Willis McGahee, Mike Williams and J.P Losman these were players Donahoe “wanted” to make his infamous Pittsburgh power football team, not players we need to build a winner.
by Hurricane$$ on Oct 24, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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