Keysh's Front Office - QBs - Buffalo Rumblings

Keysh's Front Office - QBs

by keysh67 on Oct 26, 2009 8:45 PM EDT Comment 66 comments

This is the time of the year where I look at a lot of college football, watching specific games in order to see the top rated players at positions that I think are important to our beloved Bills. This year I think the major upgrade areas need to be QB, OT, LB, DT, DE

I will try and create a post for each one of these positions, breaking down the 2010 free agents as well as my top college prospects. I won't go into detail about the college prospects only because Brian does a good job of doing that already. Also, I haven't finished making my own assessment yet so it would be hard to comment at this point.

I think it's important to look at the FA market first because depending on what is available it definitely affects how you go about addressing your positions of need. Specifically in the case of QB, I do not buy into the hype of first year QBs and I would much prefer getting a veteran with potential over a 1st rounder that will incur rookie growing pains.

#1 Option
David Carr (Former 1st overall pick in 2002)
28 years old, 6'3" 215lbs
Current team: NYG
Games Started: 79 (23-56-0)
Pct: 59.9
Rating: 75.1
Comment: Of all the available quarterbacks under 30 years of age, he is definitely the one with the most upside IMO. People forget that Houston was a crappy expansion team and given the few weapons that Carr had, he did admirably. Another big plus in my book is David's toughness, he got sacked 249 times in his first 5 years in Houston, that's an average of 50 sacks per year! David Carr is an iron man, he started 75 games out of 80. In his 5 years in Houston, he never had a running game and he only had one receiver worth talking about, the rookie Andre Johnson. He was asked to carry the team on his shoulders for too long. Compare his numbers with Trent Edwards who has Evans & Owens and two stud Running backs, David Carr's numbers look a whole lot more impressive.

Becoming a backup for a few years behind Eli Manning was probably the best thing that could have happened for David Carr. In 2 years he's thrown 36 passes, completed 24 (67%) for 3 TDs and no INTs. The Meadowlands is not an easy place to play, so two years with the Giants prepare him well for the bad weather conditions in Buffalo.

David has a very good arm and can make all the throws. IMO He's the best available FA in 2010.

#2 Option
Tarvaris Jackson (Round 2, pick 64)
26 years old, 6'2" 225lbs
Current Team: Vikings
Games Started: 19 (10-9-0)
Pct: 58.6
Rating: 77.1
Comment: In 2009 he has looked quite good. I really like the athleticism of Tarvaris Jackson, I think he brings a lot to the table and he has a huge arm and can make all the throws. I think however he does not have the same IQ as David Carr and I not convinced that he wouldn't turn out to be another JP Losman. Still, he might still be a good option if we wish to take a later round QB and develop him. Given that Brett is signed until 2011, I'm sure that Jackson will want to test the waters of FA, given that he was pretty much shafted this year.

Brodie Croyle
26 years old, 6'2" 205lbs
Current Team: KC
Games Started: 8 (0-8-0)
Pct: 58.5
Rating: 71.6
Comment: I have to trust Scott Pioli. He didn't feel that Croyle was anywhere close to ready so he traded for Cassel, that in it of itself tells me something about Croyle. He was also injury-prone in College and given he is on the smaller side it is still a major concern. Again, like Boller, not sure he is any better than Trent Edwards.

Kyle Boller
6'3" 218Lbs
Current Team: Rams
Games Started: 42 (22-20-0)
Pct: 56.9
Rating: 71.5
Comment: I am not a huge Kyle Boller fan. After all, he succeeded Trent Dilfer on a team that really doesn't ask much of its QB and he still could cut it. I don't think the guy is that sharp upstairs and as a result he is inconsistent. I'd prefer keeping Trent Edwards around for another year.

Kyle Orton
26 years old
Useless to discuss because Denver won't let him reach FA

Over 30: Culpepper, Kitna, Harrington
All three are past their prime and offer very little other than maybe as a backup.

College prospects: Let me start by saying that I believe that Bill Parcells is right when he says that he would only draft a senior QB. I don't think that it is wise to draft a Junior just coming out. This position more than any other requires maturity and experience.

1st round grade: none.
2nd round grade: I had Bradford as a first rounder but given his injury status, I now question how prudent it would be to use a 1st rounder on him. Then there is Clausen that I really like but he is a junior. Unfortunately because of the Sam Bradford & Jermaine Gresham injuries, a lot of guys will be coming out early and I suspect that Clausen might be one of them.

Conclusion

There is no doubt in my mind that we need to upgrade the QB position in the off season regardless how we finish. I'll be honest that I was a big Trent Edwards fan his two first years and I saw a lot of flashes that I liked. Unfortunately he has regressed a lot this year and he is proving to be quite injury prone. So that being said I hope the FO makes it a point to pursue David Carr or Tarvaris Jackson in the off season. Before the injury, I might have been inclined to use our 1st round selection on Bradford but now it seems like too much of a risk. Instead, get Carr, keep Fitz or Edwards as our Backup and trade or release the other. If either Clausen or Bradford are available in the second round then move to take them.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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Comments

I disagree with Jackson…he’s looked woefully inconsistent every time I have seen him play, and if he couldn’t get it done with arguably the best running game in the league, I don’t see him faring any better with Buffalo’s struggling offensive line and inconsistent running game (though I love Freddy and Marshawn, they are not AP-caliber)

You make some good points about David Carr, and I agree he wasn’t given a chance to be successful in Houston….however I believe we should start off fresh, and draft a young guy…our last two attempts to resurrect a flashy qb’s career through free agency/trade have been a disaster (Bledsoe and Rob Johnson)

That being said, I would rather not draft someone unless they are a first round, “can’t-miss” guy….let’s not be cute and try to find a diamond in the rough like we did with Trent in the 3rd round….I would rather use our 1st round pick on a stud offensive tackle, as I think Trent/Fitzy can get the job done with a better line

by McGee24 on Oct 26, 2009 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Carr won’t be too expensive and he is an upgrade both guys we currently have.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 26, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

very true, but I would rather draft a rookie and let our new coach groom him

by csc06258 on Oct 27, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t say Bledsoe was a disaster… but I can see the appeal of starting off young..

"I lost my mind three months ago when I woke up married to a pineapple, an ugly pineapple... I still love her though."

by Seattlite on Oct 27, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Tavaris Jackson, and think he can be a star in this league. He is very young, and would be a good FA pickup, especially if you were to keep both he and Trent and have a competition. Hell, I wouldn’t mind seeing Carr brought in as well, dumping Fitz, letting Edwards battle these guys through mini-camp and then dumping one before Training camp and then naming a starter (I don’t see it as wise having a “competition” in camp, one guy needs to be the clear cut starter ex. Cleveland’s woeful QB play)

I like your ideas if you were the new GM, but I still have some faith in Trent…but with that said, a guy who can push him, and if so, come in and make all the throws

Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!

by killascript on Oct 26, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jackson is a JP clone

He is the longest tenured QB on the Vikes roster. His is so good that he has gone from starting QB to 3rd string QB in less than one year.

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Oct 26, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

technically

Rosenfals is their 3rd stringer, Jackson is #2. So he’s got that going for him

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Oct 26, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of Rosenfals...

What about him? He went to Minnasota expecting to compete for, and win, the starting Job. He felt that’s why the Vikes brought him in (that is, until they signed Brett Farve Brett Farve Brett Farve).

What are his overall stats? Could he be a viable pick up? He will most likely want out of Minnasota this off season.

Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!

by fansince83 on Oct 27, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he is signed till 2012

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jackson

is awful. He is completely inaccurate, cannot read a defense and has no touch on his passes. He is a JP clone….He is so bad. If the Bills signed Jackson I would eat my own poop. Guys don’t “resurrect” themselves all of a sudden. If he can’t be good with the best RB in football, and the same exact weapons Favre has this year, how the hell would he be good in Buffalo? Needless to say I watch every Vikings game, and T Jack is a career 3rd stringer….

The only way to find a QB is through the draft, unless a rare Matt Schaub type deal is available. Chad Pennington may be available, but I doubt the Phins would trade him. Not that he is great, but he’s a career AFC East guy.

Whatever the case, QB is the #1 need in Buffalo, and continues to be. I like Jake Locker, but your right Keysh, drafting Juniors is a recipe for disaster unless we have a smart, QB coach and OC that knows how to develop him, and a good veteran to play for a year while he sits and watches. Bradford will slip due to his shoulder surgery, and so many NFL execs love his “makeup” that despite the fact that his Junior year was a bust, and he may not be able to work out till just 3 weeks before the combine, some team will roll the dice on him. Getting him in the late 1st round, less money, less investment? I don’t know, it’s definitely an option. Clausen is a lil biatch I don’t want to touch with a 10 foot pole

MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens

by MARVelous on Oct 26, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

If the Bills signed Jackson I would eat my own poop

For a pretty good laugh.

That would make a great billboard.

by BuffaloWill on Oct 27, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hope you don't have to eat it

knowing this team there is a 50/50 chance you eat your poop. Are you willing to take that chance?!?!?!

Rookies are like teabags...you don't know what you're gonna get until you put them in hot water. -Harry Neale

by weswed51 on Oct 29, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carr...

Great post. I like your points about Carr and agree that he never got a fair shake because he was on a very bad team. If we were to sign him I’d still like to draft a QB to be our QB of the future if Carr (or other signed FA) doesn’t work out. Maybe we would be blessed with a San Diego type Brees-Rivers problem (yeah…we can’t even find 1 QB). I feel that if the young guys on our offensive line can keep improving and we can find a way to plug the massive holes RB’s are running through on our defense, a guy like Carr could give us a chance. If he doesn’t, and we draft a QB as well, then he sits, watches and waits for his chance.

by BuffaloWill on Oct 27, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed, we need to draft something in terms of Q.B, probably for the next 5 years until we get it right

by csc06258 on Oct 27, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is not much at QB

The free agent market is horrible in terms of QB’s. I wouldn’t waste my time with any of these Q.B’s. I would however be very intrigued with the LB corps the market has to offer this year. Our best best is to draft a QB at some point in the draft that someone with some brains (hopefully not Modrak and Dick) likes so that he is able to groom them for the future. I see us on the verge of another 7-9 season however, which will land us around #11. So that should give us a shot at one of the many QB’s this draft has to offer. I would say go OT here but I guess there are not that many OT’s so QB might be the best play. They will probably draft Tebow because he will be another 3 year project like his former 11th pick Maybin

by csc06258 on Oct 27, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree, David Carr still has the potential to be a great QB. He has all the components to succeed and he is tough as nails. And now with two years in NY behid Eli, he’s ripe for the picking.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brooks Bollinger could be the answer!!

I think he should be on our list. This guy is tearing it up in the UFL- I know its the UFL lol but he did do well when he played in the NFL. He has a great arm and makes great decisions and he is “ballin” of course!!!

by csc06258 on Oct 27, 2009 12:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hate to ask what the question was.

All your tshirt needs.

by twoeightnine on Oct 27, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

by csc06258 on Oct 27, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take NFL Busts for 200, Alex

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ILl take current nfl busts for 400 Alex

Rookies are like teabags...you don't know what you're gonna get until you put them in hot water. -Harry Neale

by weswed51 on Oct 29, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My idea is to sign a veteran that can get it done but also to draft a QB in the 2nd round, so bringing in someone with only 10 starts in the NFL is not high on my list plus his record is 2-8-0, not very good. I realize that he’s tearing it up in the UFL but that league is somewhat of a joke. We need to seriously address the QB problem and we can’t take a chance, we need to go with the surest of bets and I believe that to be David Carr.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t call the UFL a joke, a lot of quality players came out of the old UFL. I wouldn’t pass judgment until they have played a year and you see what comes out of it.

"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy

by howedyhowe on Oct 27, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can’t seriously compare the UFL to the USFL.

The USFL had top-flight college prospects choose it over the NFL – Jim Kelly ring a bell? – because they could offer more money. The money wasn’t really there, obviously, as the league eventually folded, but you won’t see the same type of thing this time around. Sam Bradford, for example, isn’t going to choose the Las Vegas Locos over the St. Louis Rams.

So yeah. Right now, the UFL is a joke.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not saying a “JIm Kelly” is going to come out of this league, I’m saying how do you know a few decent players won’t come out of this league. Let them finish the season before judgement is passed.

"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy

by howedyhowe on Oct 27, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because they didn't come out of the XFL?

All your tshirt needs.

by twoeightnine on Oct 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well of course he won't

He’d have to replace gunslinger JP Losman!

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Bollinger.......

Isnt JP doing well in the UFL too?

How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?

by Rudy916 on Oct 27, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I like...

two different options. Being in Seattle I get to see a lot of Jake Locker. The kid has some serious talent. He is big, fast, and accurate with the football downfield. The problem is that he is not ready. He doesn’t always make the short passes and he isn’t fully matured yet. The kid needs another year in Washington but he won’t get it. Who would come back and play for that team?

I really like the second option of giving David Carr a shot. His last year in Houston he completed over 68% of his passes. I really haven’t seen a lot of him, I try to avoid watching the Texans for obvious reasons. What I have seen is that he can throw to recievers, so that is a start.

Hell maybe we get both! ….and then Trent turns into a star….and then I win the lottery (hey as long as I am dreaming…)

"I lost my mind three months ago when I woke up married to a pineapple, an ugly pineapple... I still love her though."

by Seattlite on Oct 27, 2009 3:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d love to see Carr in a Bills uniform if he’s the only option available, but like everyone else I’d rather see them draft a new guy and groom him into a franchise Quarterback for the Bills.

Personally the prospects I’d like to see the most in Buffalo are Locker, Snead and LeFevour… I especially think LeFevour has the potential to be a real spitfire in the league.

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 3:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Plus he'll most likely drop to the second round, so the Bills can snag a franchise LT in the first...

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

would people just wait and give D Bell the season to play it out….to go out next year and waste our first round pick on a LT would be downright stupid.

"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy

by howedyhowe on Oct 27, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m all for letting Bell grow into his role. LT is not as important a position as many make it out to be. However, we still need to draft a high round (not necessarily 1st round) OT because we need that depth. Butler’s injury was serious and Chambers and Scott have been trash this year.

Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.

by WhyBillsWhy on Oct 27, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that was a slip on my part, I mean RT _

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I like Lefevour also. I think he’ll slip to the 2nd round.
So sign Carr and draft Lefevour and keep Edwards or Fitz as the backup for 2010

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alot of things need to happen first.

What a well thought out analysis. I have been very critical of anyone jumping to conclusion about the players on our teams to the point where I sit back and shake my head at all the no it alls suggesting what we need to do Vs what the FO is doing. I still stand behind the decisions of the FO until that fatal day arrives when we are absolutely eliminated from any improvement from the previous years. Keysh67 you obviously have taken the analysis to another level.

We don’t need a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning. Sure it would be nice to have them but don’t we have alot of areas that need addressing first. Lets start with Trent. Obviously he is limited in his skill set. A very smart kid, with limited execution restraints. Ryan Fitzpatrick, doesn’t he deserve the opportunity to prove he is inadequate on this team, both as a leader as well as his skill set. I believe we are better off this year with Trent and Ryan than the last few years with J.P. and Trent. Maybe next year we go a step further and bring someone in, as you mentioned, that has a carreer experienc to push these two.

The last thing I would do is draft someone in the top four rounds that has proven nothing and when so many QB’s have been selected in the later rounds. This QB would have to jump off the charts in 100% of everyone’s evaluation chart before I cough up a early round pick. We have many more glaring needs.

Keysh, I have been critical but you are close here. I’ll go out on a limb and say Jauron stays, Brandon Goes, bring in someone with a professional football tallent background that can influence a FO mentally or physically, draft the areas of greater need and search the FA market for a QB, such as carr, to compete with the remaining 09 QB’s. Start the one that gives us the better opportunity to win. One last thing about Trent, How much longer does he need to get past this hurdle of gettng the ball out on slants and sideline patterns. That is the only thing holding him back.

Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!

by VanScottM on Oct 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Am I reading this and some of the responses correctly?

Some of you want David Carr??? You want Mittens?

Do you guys forget how terrible he is? He holds the ball longer than Losman or Edwards ever dreamed of. He also fumbled 68 times in 75 career starts in Houston. His career ypa is 6.4.

Does his play in Carolina mean anything? He was downright pathetic when he stepped onto the field for them.

Are you guys basing your opinions on his garbage time production with the Giants this year and last? Have you all forgotten how bad he was in Houston/Carolina, and how NOBODY wanted him to even compete for a starting job?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I’m with you, K. I just let you do the dirty work. :)

Tired of talking about quarterbacks. Go get one the traditional way – an established vet and/or a first-round rookie – and hope like hell you don’t screw it up.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Both of you don't get it

My point was that there are no senior top rated QBs in the draft this year other than the injured Bradford (less his senior year). So I looked at the FA available QBs and that’s it, that’s all there is!

I certainly do not agree with you guys on David Carr but that’s besides the point. There are no other options unless a few get cut in the off season, guys like Kerry Collins, Marc Bulger, Jason Campbell (who I think I like, given the right system). The list I wrote in my article are the only guys hitting Free Agency so we don’t have much to pick from.

My position was simply that Carr is superior to both guys we currently have and might still be able to become a franchise QB while we draft a kid in Rd2 and ease him into the game. My friend is a huge Giants fan and he was saying how hard it is for him to see Eli hold on to the ball because his young receivers are not running the proper patterns or are not crisp the way they need to be. Carr got Johnson in his second year and it took Johnson a few years to develop, remember Hardy Last year? I don’t know that you can blame Carr for all the sacks he took. Many were because of the one dimensionality of their offense, lack of veteran receivers and poor O-Line. Sure he took some because he tends to hold on too long but for a guy that got sacked 50 times a year for 5 consecutive years and still stood in there trying to make a play, man I’d like some of that courage in our next QB. He got sacked 249 times and only missed 5 total games, this guy is truly game tough and has proven it. And yes K, his stats in NY are pretty good 36 attempts and 3TDs with no INTs, not bad at all – doesn’t prove anything substantial but at least they are positive numbers

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

correction

no senior top rated QBs in the draft this year other than the injured Bradford

that are graded first round quality.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradford’s not even a senior. He, too, is an early entrant.

I’m not against getting a vet/rookie combo – that’s kind of the “in” thing to do anyways, and has been for quite some time – but I don’t want to sign some crappy free agent just so we don’t have to draft a guy in the first round. We need to find the best young quarterback we can.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did I say otherwise?

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sort of. You said there are no top-rated college QBs. I disagree there. Because of your belief, you’d like to hand the starting job to David Carr, or some other journeyman veteran, and draft another Edwards type, in that he’s not a first-rounder.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 28, 2009 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had Bradford as a first rounder but because of his injury…

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 28, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Keysh, Carr started in Houston for five years, so he had Andre Johnson for four of them. And you can’t compare a top three pick and unbelievable talent like Johnson to a 2nd rounder like Hardy. Domanick Davis (it’s Williams now) had a few consecutive 1,000 yard seasons with Carr, so despite the crappy OL, the offense wasn’t completely one dimensional.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying that a rookie WR is “unbelievable” in his first year? second year? everyone knows that rookie WRs normally take 2-3 years to develop, which means that he had un unexperience guy to throw to in y1 and y2 so lets say by his y4 he had a decent receiver. That’s two years with one receiver.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so lets say by his y4 he had a decent receiver

That’s a little bit of an understatement.

David Carr was the starting QB for four years of Andre Johnson. I think Andre, being a once every five years type of WR prospect, was a tad better than Hardy and had established himself as more than a developing player by his third and fourth seasons.

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

keysh

How in the world is Carr superior to Edwards and Fitz? What have you ever seen of him as a starter that makes you think he even has a chance to be an adequate starter again?

And yes K, his stats in NY are pretty good 36 attempts and 3TDs with no INTs, not bad at all – doesn’t prove anything substantial but at least they are positive numbers

All garbage time stats against crappy teams. I bet Trent or Fitz would do the same thing.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I bet Trent or Fitz would find a way to blow a garbage time game with 3 INTs.

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess you and i didn’t watch the same games. he’s got the arm and he was accurate. What amazes me is the fact that even being sacked 50 times per year for 5 consecutive years, his stats are quite similar to Tren’t last year. His last three years with Houston he had well over 60% completion with a rating of over 80.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So your impressed by Carr because his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons as a starting were worse, but not much worse than Edwards’ 2nd year in the league?

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You must be looking at stats only because Edwards does not have an NFL caliber arm. He is unable to throw any pass with velocity. Watching him attempt to throw a quick slant in is very painful.

That’s the one thing about Fitz that I like, he can gun it in pretty hard. I think David Carr got drafted to a bad team and a lot was put on his shoulders. I am not defending him because as a first rounder he definitely cashed in and took the money but the fact remains that he was playing on a god-awful team.

David Carr has an arm and is able to use it, especially now that he has matured I think he would be an upgrade over Edwards.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, a lot of it is stats. But I honestly can’t imagine that anybody who saw David Carr play in 2006 could consider him to be a player who you would ever want to have start a game for your favorite team.

Who cares if he has a stronger arm than Edwards. He’s going to be 31 years old next year and has little potential left. His head got so screwed up in Houston that even if the Giants have come a long way in fixing him, I have no faith that he could come here with this OL and these weapons and not fall apart again. His regression in Houston was worse than even those with the least amount of belief in Trent are considering his recent three game meltdown to be.

Seriously Keysh, how can you say that a 30 year old QB who started for five seasons and never once had a better QB rating than Edwards did in his 2nd season would be a better option?

by kaisertown on Oct 28, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

If we’re ready to give up on Edwards after 30 or so career starts, how can David Carr still have potential after 75 games?

Let’s just grab whoever we can in the first (or second if there’s no viable option in the first) and increase and/or start praying.

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we’re ready to give up on Edwards after 30 or so career starts, how can David Carr still have potential after 75 games?

Because Edwards has not shown any potential, while Carr has. Carr is learning a lot under a Manning, and has played well as the backup for Eli. He is much tougher than Trent and could be had for a decent price.

I say “NO” to T Jax though…

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 27, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because Edwards has not shown any potential, while Carr has

I’d bet if you asked a Houston fan who has seen Carr play every game and seen Edwards play once or twice, they would tell you the exact opposite. Fans are always more critical of their players then the rest of the league.

Carr started five years in Houston, had a lower completion %, less yards per play and per game and had very similiar TD and turnover ratios. And he had 5 years.

Here’s how bad Carr got in Houston:

in 2006, Carr’s 5th season as a starter. Andre Johnson was a stud WR breaking out. Johnson had 103 catches for 1,147 yards and had an impressive 460 yards after the catch. Carr completed 68.3% of his passes (Edwards was at 65.5% last year) and he still only averaged 6.4 yards per pass attempt (Edwards was at 7.2 last year) because he only averaged 9.2 yards per completion (Trentative averaged 11 last year and 10.8 so far this year). You havn’t seen a QB go into a shell, fail to get the ball down the field and completely fall apart until you’ve seen the 2006 version of David Carr.

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

Carr is a terrible option. I don’t even want to consider him an option. I think he’s worse than Fitzpatrick and that’s saying something considering my opinion of his game/skills.

I don’t know how anyone can argue Carr still has potential. He’s 30 years old, has had no options to even compete for a starting role, has failed miserably any time he was the starter and is an even bigger checkdown artist than Edwards.

Sluss, I’d like to know how Carr has shown potential, while Edwards hasn’t…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

K, you are quick to criticize and put down but rarely do you ever offer any solution.

The reality is that there are very few veteran QBs that have the potential to start for us next year. I would like to see the Bills draft a QB in Rounds 1 or 2 and if the kid wins the spot great but I’d rather he get to learn behind a veteran first. The Matt Ryan’s & Joe Flacco’s of this world are extremely rare.

So which veteran do you see in Buffalo?

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

None

Can’t we draft the rookie and hang onto Edwards?

Why can’t I give my opinion without offering a solution to something I don’t see as an option? I don’t believe signing some crappy veteran QB is going to be any improvement over keeping Trent, to go along with hopefully a 1st round rookie. Also, who am I putting down here? David Carr? Jeesh.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 28, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check out his career stats page, he has a 144 and 98 passer rating in his 2 years with the Giants. Yes, a lot of that is preseason play, but it shows he has gotten better since his time in Houston.

What has Trent done in regular season or preseason? Trent looked like a bum in preseason, and looked good the first two games b/c he could checkdown to Jax b/c teams expected the deep ball to Lee and TO.

I’m not annointing Carr, just think he is a better option as a starting QB, or backup to a first rounder next year. Sticking with Trent is only going to get us the same results.

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 28, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looking at preseason(!!) and garbage time stats of Carr and saying he’s a better option based on that is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard! You cannot take either of those situations to mean all that much.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 28, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There’s no preseason stats in the page you linked. It’s 36 pass attempts during garbage time.

The season of the 144 passer rating was 12 passes including a game against Seattle where he entered a 37-6 blowout and after 6 consecutive Giants rushes, he threw a five yard TD in what would be his only pass attempt of the game. The other 11 throws came in week 17 in a meaningless game for both teams.

The 98 passer rating is this season. He was 2/3 for 7 yards in the fourth quarter of a blowout against Tampa Bay, 4/5 for 72 yards and a TD in the closing minutes of a game where New Orleans was beating NY by 28 points and he played the whole 2nd half of the blowout over the Raiders going 9/14 for 90 yards.

Carr actually did have a good preseason last year and a great one this year, but I can’t give a 30 year old QB with 2,200 career passing attempts any credit for putting up good stats in the 2nd half of preseason games.

by kaisertown on Oct 28, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keysh, I’d focus less on the Jr. vs. Sr. thing and more on the actual experience these QBs have had. Locker is a three year starter who redshirted a year in college, so he’s the same age as the McCoy/Tebow group of seniors. Clauson is also a three year starter who is going to leave Notre Dame after starting 36 games and attempting about 1,100 passes. That’s as much experience as most seniors have.

by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still think LeFevour is the best senior option out there, even with his experiences coming at a fairly small school. He’s got passing and running abilities and plenty of experience (over 40 games I believe) and well rounded stats.

Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.

by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do like Clausen, he seems to be quite competitive and I like that in a QB. I also like LeFevour and I like Sam Bradford but his injury worries me too much.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Oct 27, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs