Bills 20, Panthers 9: Week 7 Film Session
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 8:39 AM EDT
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242 comments
I could get used to this. I know I shouldn't, but I definitely know, one hundred percent, that I can get used to re-watching Buffalo Bills victories. Buffalo's most recent victory, a 20-9 win over the Carolina Panthers, puts the Bills at 3-4 on the 2009 season - and while they aren't playing anywhere near playoff-caliber football, they're keeping themselves alive despite a pitiful start to the season.
There's a lot to cover in this particular installment of our weekly film session. Let's go.
Ryan Fitzpatrick. It is absolutely terrifying to say this, but get used to watching Fitzpatrick play, folks - there's a very strong chance you'll see him in the lineup for a while. Why? It's pretty simple, really - Fitzpatrick currently gives Buffalo the best chance to win football games. That's not saying a lot - for Trent Edwards or for Fitzpatrick.
Buffalo's offense looks different with Fitzpatrick at the helm - no one can deny that. They're much less prone to mistakes. The best examples there are turnovers (in eight quarters of play, the Bills have turned it over just once with Fitzpatrick at the helm), and far more importantly, sacks (Fitzpatrick has been sacked just twice in two games, whereas Edwards was sacked 19 times in a little over five games). Forget about their skills as a quarterback. If I know Dick Jauron, I'm looking at things like pocket presence, poise and decisiveness right now - because Fitzpatrick has displayed a crystal clear advantage in all three of those departments over the past two weeks, particularly in avoiding a solid Panthers pass rush and making a few really nice throws on Sunday.
Fitzpatrick is what he is. Don't expect him to get better. More efficient, possibly, but not better overall. He's got a bit of swagger, he's solid in the pocket, and he's got a pretty strong arm. He's not terribly accurate - he's only completing 44.7 percent of his passes this season, after all - and he doesn't put a lot of touch on his throws (Bills receivers dealt with a lot of high throws and balls glancing off their hands - Terrell Owens specifically - because Fitzpatrick decided to throw in howitzer mode). It's a mark of how much Edwards has regressed in basic areas that we can truthfully say that Fitzpatrick is our best chance at making the playoffs. It's obviously not ideal, but it is what it is.
The running game. It's pretty easy to get on Fitzpatrick for his bad stats over the past two weeks, but it's also more than fair to say that he's been steering a completely one-dimensional offense. Buffalo, which ran the ball very effectively early in the season - even while piling up defeats - hasn't been able to run the ball effectively at all in the past two weeks. The Bills ran for 53 yards on 29 carries against Carolina, whose run defense was down near the bottom of the league entering the contest. Fred Jackson has 54 yards on 20 carries in the past two weeks. Marshawn Lynch? 101 yards on 36 carries. Oh yeah - he also scored the Bills' first rushing TD on the season in this win.
Defenses aren't doing anything special to stop the run, either. The Bills are seeing more stacked boxes than perhaps they did earlier in the season, but they see their fair share of seven-man fronts, too, thanks to Owens and Lee Evans on the outside. The blocking isn't there, and the running backs haven't played up to their usual standards, either. If Alex Van Pelt can find some rhythm for his running game, Buffalo's offense might finally start clicking - and Fitzpatrick might actually complete more than half of his pass attempts.
Offensive tackles. It is plainly obvious that, aside from quarterback - yes, folks, Buffalo will be looking at quarterbacks next off-season, regardless of what happens this season - the Bills' biggest need offensively is a tackle. Demetrius Bell is OK. He played pretty well against the Panthers, and every week he looks a little more comfortable on the field. There's a chance that he sticks around, particularly if he continues to improve. Right tackle is another story altogether. Jamon Meredith, making his second professional start, was repeatedly viciously abused by Julius Peppers. Obviously, that wasn't unexpected, but half the time it looked like he was just letting Peppers pick him up off the ground to slow down his acceleration. He's got some athleticism, but he's decades away from being worthy of dressing regularly for NFL games. I never thought I'd be pining for the return of Jonathan Scott, but here I am, pining for the return of Jonathan Scott.
Terrell Owens. Part of me just wants to see a guy like Fitzpatrick or Lee Evans rip into this guy. Buffalo does what it can to get him involved early in games, and T.O. just lets the opportunities slip through his hands - literally. Nothing would help the Bills more in games such as the ones they've played over the past two weeks than grabbing an early lead. Owens has had chances to make plays early in ball games - whether to sustain drives or of bigger scale - and those opportunities have been blown. Not only would it be fun to see the bemused expression on Owens' face if Fitzpatrick lit him up on the sidelines (yes, I'm aware it'll never happen), but it might actually provoke Owens to act like he gives a crap on the football field.
John McCargo. I paid close attention to McCargo, who saw his first "extensive" playing time thanks to the knee injury that sidelined Kyle Williams early in this one. My verdict: McCargo is useful, but he's absolutely nothing more than average. He can stack and shed, he can penetrate, and he's tough against the run with a good motor, but he's just "a guy" - he'll never be a game-changer. He's exactly where he belongs - fourth in the rotation. Buffalo could use some additional beef in the middle of their D-Line rotation, and if that comes at the expense of McCargo next off-season, I'm OK with it.
Yet another linebacker shakeup. Most of you probably noticed this during the game or heard about it afterward, but Perry Fewell made yet another change at linebacker. Keith Ellison, who was the strong-side linebacker for the past two seasons, is now playing the weak-side role vacated by Kawika Mitchell. Ashlee Palmer, who got the nod for Mitchell after his season-ending knee injury, is out of the lineup. Chris Draft, a street free agent signing, is the new SAM linebacker. It didn't really help - the Bills still gave up 4.6 yards per rush to a Panthers team that inexplicably allowed Jake Delhomme to air it out 44 times - but Draft at least attacked the line of scrimmage and had a big hand in a key fourth-and-one stop in the second half. Did I mention the Bills need help at linebacker, too?
Jairus Byrd. There isn't really much more to say than what we've said on each of the past two Mondays, but I thought I'd offer this up: Byrd doesn't look like he ran a 4.67-second 40-yard dash in pre-draft workouts. Many questioned his athleticism coming out of college based on this single time, but it's pretty clear that Byrd is a fantastic athlete. He's really the ideal package at free safety - he's got terrific sideline-to-sideline range, he hits with solid leverage, and I don't think I need to tell you he's got great ball skills. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top-notch run defender, but at free safety, he really doesn't need to be. This guy is an absolute pleasure to watch - but wrap up that ball carrier, Jairus. He had an ugly missed tackle on DeAngelo Williams' fourth-quarter touchdown run.
Special Teams. Name a guy who plays special teams for the Bills, and I'll tell you that they had a great day on Sunday. Well, I take that back - name a guy who plays special teams and isn't a returner, and I'll tell you that he had a great day. Buffalo's return units continue to be pretty average, though Fred Jackson is still capable of making plays back there, with the scoot-up-the-sideline routine his go-to return.
The coverage units were back with full force on Sunday. Maybe the Panthers just aren't great on special teams - OK, the Panthers aren't great on special teams - but we saw big hit after big hit from the Bills on Sunday. John Wendling, Corey McIntyre, Ashlee Palmer, Jon Corto, Jonathan Stupar, Ashton Youboty - all of these and many others had big hits either on return men or on blockers. Rarely have I seen Bills special teams units be as physically dominant as they were on Sunday. Special teams will always be underrated by the masses, but the ability of Bobby April's units to physically manhandle the Panthers and flip field position was a huge factor in the Bills pulling out a win on the road.
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nice write up… everything feels better after a win… even an ugly win
by majr1282 on Oct 27, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I found your QB assessment interesting. I hate to read into things at press conferences, but Jauron’s tone towards Trent the two games prior to his injury and his enthusiasm with Fitz I think further supports your stance (pending a respectable performance against Texas).
by TJJ on Oct 27, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everything that Brian says is exactly on target. I would especially agree with the comments about the running game. Nothing will make a bigger difference in the offense at this point than a significant improvement in this area. Here I have to confess — I know it’s heresy — that I am beginning to wonder about Marshawn. Yes he is a better power runner than Fred, but he continues to dance and delay rather than hitting the hole squarely, and that is causing him to either get stuffed or go for short yardage on a number of plays. The blocking is clearly a problem, but I wonder if the best strategy at this point would be to make Jackson the feature runner and see if he can resume the kind of performance he was giving us the first three games of the year (when the same o-line was blocking for him). It would be great if Marshawn proves me wrong in the Houston game — nothing would please me more than seeing him reach his full potential — but if he doesn’t perhaps a change would be in order.
by Macktruck on Oct 27, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This will be the key area this Sunday.
Anyone notice Marshawn start to stroll into the endzone, before realizing he wasn’t there yet and had to bust it a little. Yes he was wide open and I am exaggerating a little but that was our first rushing TD of the season in weeks 7. The only thought in his mind should of been get my A$$ in there.
Wins or not, we have protected the ball and minimized penalties the last two games. Basic fundamental football, Step three is our running game. We need to maintain the first two and focus on this third one. Shaub will eat us alive if we can’t and Houston notoriously plays bad in Buffalo. Ugly wins, but progress is more important right now with only nine games left. The progress will bring in more wins.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
by VanScottM on Oct 27, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It kind of looked like he was about to put his shoulder down and hit someone – but nobody was there for him to hit. How did Carolina’s D get 10 men on the wrong side of the field?
by Krenn on Oct 27, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me it looked like Marshawn was stunned that there was no one around. It definitely didn’t appear to be showboating. We can attest to the fact that Lynch always has a dozen guys hanging off of him. Besides, how many years has it been since one of our guys ran untouched?
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It definitely didn’t appear to be showboating
That was showboating…
by krytime on Oct 27, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here I have to confess — I know it’s heresy — that I am beginning to wonder about Marshawn.
I don’t think it’s exactly heresy if you’re not the only one wondering…
by krytime on Oct 27, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Lynch’s dancing to Freddies running straight into the defense like a brick wall EVERY PLAY.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Running into a brick wall? He has gained a lot of yardage this year, but seems to be having trouble getting into a rhythm with Marshawn back and his carries reduced.
by Macktruck on Oct 28, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
any thoughts on McGee’s return late…I know it didn’t amount to too much, but he looked so fast, and big smiles afterward. Maybe it won’t happen, but i don’t know….
I am not sure about Fitz though…and yes, the tackles are not looking good. If they were doing better, Fitz would have more time to at least set his feet. 14 is putting alot of effort out there, and knows where to put the ball, but the rush is getting to him too quickly.
We need a QB next offseason, yes we do
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 27, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McGee
was returning because it was the ‘hands’ team on the field. I think…
"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)
by NolaBillsFan on Oct 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB
I am probably in the vast minority but I don’t agree Fitz gives us the best chance to win. He is a serviceable backup. In my opinion, the offense looks better due to huddling. A couple weeks of watching another QB play should help Edwards. I am glad however he isn’t being rushed back.
Keepin' the faith!
by nickdaniels on Oct 27, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huddle
I think you are correct in this assumption. I think TE deserves a chance to play QB in our current style.
"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)
by NolaBillsFan on Oct 27, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was 5 for 5 for 43 yards before getting injured. Thats 8.6 yards per completion.
Keepin' the faith!
by nickdaniels on Oct 27, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
Edwards was looking very good against the Jets, throws a better ball, and it could very well be that the no-huddle offense was a very dumb move and he could flourish in the current system
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 27, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats not very impressive
How many “chances in the system” does Trent need or deserve? He’s 1-4 as the starter this season (I’m not going to count the half quarter last week). He has now started 29 games for the Bills. He has been knocked out of 4 of them, and missed 7 full games due to injury. In his time in Buffalo, Trent has exactly 0 games where he passed for 300 yards or more. He has exactly 5 games where he threw more than 1 touchdown. He has 14 games where he threw 0 Touchdown passes. He also has 19 games over that stretch with less than 200 yards passing. He has been sacked a lot. This season Trent averages 4 sacks per game to Fitzpatrick’s 1. (Fitz has enough presence to run forward for a small gain when the pocket collapses).
Just for comparison’s sake, lets look at a universally accepted mediocre QB’s numbers over the past 3 seasons. Oh lets say a mediocre backup like, Jason Campbell of the Redskins: In the last 3 years Campbell has 5 300+ yard games, 8 multi-TD games, 12 games with 0 TD’s. 16 games with less than 200 yards passing.
For comparison to a certified franchise QB like Peyton Manning over the last 3 seasons: 14 300+ yard games (including 2 playoff games, 1 of those was over 400!), 24 games with multiple TD’s, 4 games with 0 TD’s. 5 games with under 200 yards passing.
I think Bills fans are getting delusional about Trent Edwards, the numbers speak for themselves. Edwards is a mediocre at best QB who has shown almost no signs of progress in 3 years. HE DOES NOT DESERVE ANYMORE CHANCES. The sooner the Bills can get this sucky player off their roster the better.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Total yardage statistics are often deceptive. Ben Roethlisberger had a total of 3 300 yard games in his first 4 years (56 games) yet few would classify him as an incompetent quarterback, even in his early years. Trent has also never had a single game in which he had 40 or more attempts while someone like Peyton Manning had 6 games of 40+ attempts in his rookie season alone. The number of sacks is perhaps a more telling statistic. Edwards is averaging a sack more than 12% of the time he drops back while Fitzy is much lower (although with a much lower sample size).
I don’t know who said “chances in the system” but if anything, our systems have kept changing from one crappy one to the next. Trent has three different o-coordinators (a big deal for a defensive coach like Jauron), a mix of no-huddle and a mess of an o-line. Trent could very well turn out to be the next Rob Johnson and his injury history is definitely concerning, but he’s had more than his fair share of issues especially considering he is being asked to produce so relatively early in his career.
by karovda on Oct 27, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent won't turn out to be the next Rob Johnson
Trent’s not as good as Rob Johnson. I can’t believe the pile of excuses you are building for Trent. Its true that no one statistic like yards should be the barometer for a QB because situations vary. But come on now, Trent is consistently mediocre, his best games aren’t that impressive. 80% completion doesn’t mean much if its only for 132 yards. He doesn’t have as many attempts as Manning because the Bills go 3 and out so often. Trent dumps 2 and 3 yard passes on 3rd and 7. Punt. Trent doesn’t get it done. He doesn’t score, he doesn’t move the ball much (low yardage), he isn’t horrible about throwing interceptions but he isn’t great at protecting the ball either. He gets sacked a lot etc. It is not a coincidence that Lee Evans hadn’t had a catch of over 20 yards since JP Losman hit the bench and then has had several since Edwards hit the bench. Edwards seems like a nice guy, he’ll make a great back up QB.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
on attempts
you’re right about the 3 and outs, but there’s a simpler reason: Trent doesn’t get to throw as much as manning because he’s not as good as manning.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not like Fitz is ever going to throw for 300 yards either. Fitz threw for 239 yards …. in both games combined. Fitz threw for 116 yards in 25 attempts against the Jets and 123 yards against Carolina. Here’s Edwards’ games with fewer yards passing: The first game of his career against New England, last year’s game in NE and the first half of the SF game (where he threw for 112 yards). That’s it. Edwards had more yards passing in the snow game in Cleveland, the windy game in NY, the twisted uprights against NE, his crappy performances this year and every other game he has ever played in.
Fitz had a pair of 200 yard games last year, one in the 5 quarter tie against Philly where he had 44 pass attempts and in a game against Washington where Cedric Benson took a screen pass 80 yards. I’m not sure how Jake Delhomme’s 300 yard passing games makes Edwards less likely to light it up than Fitz.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Fitz's first game for the Rams, he threw over 300 yds, he is capable!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Oct 27, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 2005. In his games since then, he’s averaged 152 yards passing.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying he's capable, get back to me when Trent proves that he is!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Oct 27, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8.6 yards per completion for a season would be dead last in the league.
you’re thinking of per attempt. That’d be good per attempt, but since it was only 5 passes, and he completed all of them, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect he’d continue to complete 100% of his passes. By contrast, The only three QB’s in the league who have yards per completion under 10 are cassel, collins and jamarcus russell. That stat illustrates that, while he completed 5 passes and that’s very nice, he was still being the same Captain checkdown.
Think about that: The 5 passes that Edwards enthusiasts are clinging to as evidence that it was the no-huddle and not Edwards’s own incompetence would put Edwards as the worst in the entire league at yards per completion. Worse than Jamarcus Russell.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
People are still throwing out that dumb statistic?
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fitz
Fitz has shown a propsensity to get the ball to our playmakers though. I think THAT gives us the best chance to win. I’m not saying Fitz is a better QB but as long as he’s trying to get Evans and Owens involved the Bills are better off.
by Zorak84 on Oct 27, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
He has gotten the ball down the field to Lee and TO with more regularity than Trent. Now if TO would catch the ball…
by IthacaBillsFan on Oct 27, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on the huddle. I don’t know why this hasn’t been discussed more. I’m happy we are winning, and I think Fitz has his strong points, but that first drive Trent had in the Jets game with a huddle, the team looked like they were all on the same page for the first time this season. We didn’t get to see more of that and so Fitz gets the benefit of the improvement. Maybe.
It was sadly comical seeing the no huddle trying to set up with players running back and forth with their hands cupped around their ears trying to figure out the play – no wonder we were a mess and Freddie got the calls – he was probably the only skill guy on the field who knew the play.
by oompaloompa on Oct 27, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I’d call the offense one-dimensional. It’s more like zero-dimensional right now. They don’t pass or run well. 17 of the 20 points were practically handed to the Bills on Sunday by the defense/Delhomme/muffed punt. And the other 3 points were when they got Carolina to think they were going to run the ball and beat them over the top to Evans. That’s not to discount those last three, but if this team is playing a tight game, or from behind, it’s going to be difficult to put a long drive together.
I don’t disagree that Fitzpatrick is likely to keep the job when Edwards is healthy, but he’s not someone you want starting; he’s just so inaccurate. Which shows how much Edwards has regressed than anything else that Fitzpatrick might be the better option now. It’s so frustrating to see where Edwards was a year ago to where he is now. Part of that you’d think is on Edwards, but you have to put a lot on the coaching (which makes sense when you have DJ neutering the offense and no significant experience at OC. There’s no reason that Edwards couldn’t be what Kyle Orton currently is for the Broncos if he was put in the right situation. Unfortunately, it looks like that’s going to be another team that finds this out.
The one good thing about Bradford’s shoulder injury, and apparent declaration to go into the draft, is that it might put the Bills in a position where they can take him now. At the very least there should be a handful of options.
by Pistol on Oct 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
with Trent in the game...
Those free points would have been 3 field goals with Edwards in.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bills had a drive start at the 7 yard line and they scored without FItz attempting a pass.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Bradford
Didn’t we take a chance on another injured 1st rounder just out of college? He might be a steal (big maybe), but without bookend tackles, we have no business destroying another young passers career. Besides, when I hear shoulder injury two words come to mind: Chad and Pennington.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGahee?
is that the reference you’re making? I wouldn’t compare the two.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially because he was pretty healthy during his time in buffalo.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets be solutions oriented
What makes the run game better? We obviously have two top notch RBs.
The offensive line? The play calling?
Does the run game change even more now if mcintyre is seriously hurt?
by quantumuprising on Oct 27, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The cutback counter runs seemed to work well for Marshawn in the last game, that might just be a situational thing with Carolina playing a similar defense to us, though.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think marshawn has been dancing a little bit too much.
by quantumuprising on Oct 27, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see what TE can do with a huddle before letting him go. The no huddle should have been scrapped as soon as we starting getting all those false starts. A young line needs to be able to communicate and adjust.
If Trent can throw the ball downfield he might end up being good. Otherwise he could be a very capable backup. He just needs a bit more swagger and a killer instinct. He’s picked up too much of Jaurons cautiousness.
by Bill Frank on Oct 27, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think the no huddle was the cause of the offensive line penalties.
by quantumuprising on Oct 27, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter
They have reduced them which allows us five less yards to gain to move the chains. The other causes are irrelavent at this point. The lineman have stated it helps.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
by VanScottM on Oct 27, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We saw what Trent could do with a huddle last year and the year before. 5 and 5 in 2007 and 7 and 7 in 2008. Woo Hoo Franchise QB! Face it, Trent is not the answer, neither is Fitz, but the simple fact that Fitz looks like the better option right now is damning to Edwards chances.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wake-up call?
For Edwards, Fitz’ is schooling him a bit on slinging the ball around. I’m not sure why Trent is trying to make the perfect pass each time (and eventually checking-down), but his understudy is demonstrating the value of getting the ball out to you your receivers. Even if the throw is inaccurate, you’ll eventually make enough plays to give your team a chance to win. Watching the Vikings 40 year old QB sling the ball around (and just about every decent QB) should be evidence enough. I hope Trent has the NFL package on DirecTV.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you live with the sling, you die with the sling. See Brett Favre vs. the Steelers last Sunday. Our team can succeed with a guy just playing “game manager”, which is why we’ve succeeded so far with Fitzpatrick. I think a high risk / high reward QB just doesn’t fit in our system.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I used the word “slinging” a bit too liberally. I would like to see less reticence throwing the ball down field. Farve’s style is too reckless for this Bills team. However, playing scared and dumping off won’t work as well. Yes, Trent did take some shots, but he didn’t do enough to get the ball to his receivers.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you there. Trent needs to see the whole field, which is something he wasn’t doing this year. He gives TO and Evans 1.5 seconds to get open and then tosses the ball over to the outlet receiver. He wasn’t even throwing it to Reed most of the time. Hopefully with a few weeks of clearing his head, he can get his footwork situated (very important for a QB) and his confidence back.
Let’s hope Fitzie keeps things going on Sunday and revisit all this after the bye week. I personally think Jauron will do his yearly bye-week tinkering and we’ll have our running game back for the stretch run. I also believe, unless Fitzpatrick has a ridiculous game, Edwards starts when we return from the bye week. If he doesn’t look any better by halftime, Jauron gives him the hook. Trent still has some tricks up his sleeve, let’s hope he can find them. He made both he and Van Pelt look good in that Pats game, I think he deserves one more go as it’s only a matter of time before we see some bad fitzie to balance out the good.
Overall, if we can run the ball well, we’ll be Ok with either QB.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the Bills’ system is one that depends on its lack luster personnel to “manage” the team into losses. Why would they want a quarterback with a strong arm who can make plays? That just wouldn’t work in the “system” the Bills run.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago has a QB who has a strong arm and can make plays. So does Minnesota. Unfotunately some of those plays are to the wrong team. Anyways I think people are confused here. I think we are all pining for some good, exciting football. Long bombs down the field (whether to your own guy or one on the other team) are not the only way to achieve that. I think we’d all be plenty excited if some of the good stuff in the running game re-appeared. Earlier in the season, our O-Line seemed good enough to open up some long runs. If we get that back, we don’t need Trent to throw it all over the place. The answer to our woes is to tune up the run game, not seek for options at QB. Fitz will be our downfall if he starts more than 1-2 more games. Heck, he could be our downfall this week.
How is Houston against the run?
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
edwards already is our downfall
Fitz 2-0
Edwards 1-4
Yeah Minnesota must be really bumming about having that freewheeling QB. 6-1 is a tough spot to be in. Cutler sucks, he always had, he is like Losman and Bledsoe, he can wing it deep but can’t make plays when it counts. When we talk about wanting a QB that has the ability to throw deep, it does not mean that we want a guy that can only do that. Edwards can’t throw deep. The short passes are not the hard passes to make. Edwards’ total yards per game is low because he has a weak arm. period. quit making excuses, this guy has never been on a winning team. Why can’t the Bills admit it when they strike out on a QB? Look around the league, there are tons of teams starting 1st and 2nd year QB’s and almost all of them are playing better than Edwards who is in his 3rd year. edwards is playing only slightly better than Stafford (who is in Detroit) and just worse than Cassel.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Fitzpatrick has three completions of 20 yards in 47 pass attempts, Edwards has 12 in 153 pass attempts. Last year in a very similiar number of passes, Edwards had 35, 20 yard gainers and Fitz had 14. Edwards may struggle to get the ball down the field, but Fitz isn’t any better at it. And seriously, we’re basing this off their records? Fitz won a couple games where the opponent threw 9 interceptions and scored 10 points per game and that makes him better than Edwards? Does anybody really think that Buffalo loses either of these last two games with Edwards at QB? They were handed to the Bills on a silver platter by Byrd, the defense and the opposing QBs and I actually think it’s pretty sad how close both games have been.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is my point kaiser
we have 2 sucky QB’s. Bill Parcells used to say “A backup QB will win you 3 games, but will also lose you 3 games.” If Fitzpatrick gets the money again this week vs Houston, get out with the money while you can, and get healthy on the bye, and get TE back in there to make your best possible run at winning 6 of the last 8
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with you. If Trent isn’t 100% healthy, he has no business doing anything other than cheering his team on in street clothes. And if Edwards is going to keep playing like he did the last couple games, then it’s OK to go with Fitz, I just don’t understand why it’s such a foregone conclusion that Trent would return after the bye and continue to play the worst football of his career. He came back from the last concussion to have one of the better games he’s ever played.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Does anybody really think that Buffalo loses either of these last two games with Edwards at QB?
You can’t underestimate the power of the 6 pick, which is Edwards best pass.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Oct 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look on the bright side, at least it’s a completion!
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t call it a schooling. Trent has more ypg passing (I wouldn’t be surprised if he had more yards per attempt as well but I didn’t look it up) and it’s not like he never attempted to throw the ball deep, he just missed some of the long balls that should have been completed.
by TJJ on Oct 27, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubling the number of wins is a good start. Trent is the more accurate passer, but Fitz is showing more willingness to find Evans and Owens, the guys that were supposed to make a difference offensively this year. I’m by no means giving up on Edwards, I just hope he realizes that if this guy can make plays—even with a horrendous completion percentage—then he could (and ought) to do better himself.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fitz had the luxury of +4 TO ratio against Carolina (I think it was the same margin in the Jets game as well). I agree that Trent needs to be more effective with the deep ball, but I have little doubt that with the team playing the way that it has been Trent would do a better job sustaining drives. My biggest concern is the sack issue that Brian brought up.
by TJJ on Oct 27, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the TO ratio was in the Bills favor because the Offense didn’t turn the ball over. Yes the defense helped by getting TO’s but the Offense also protected the football. Trent had 6 INT’s in 5 games (1.2 per game) while Fitz has had 1 in 2 games (.5 per game).
Trent is the 23rd best quarterback in the league right now. Why do you want him so bad?
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget the penalties
the bills cut way back on them this week.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks to fitz
In interviews, players have attributed the reduction in penalties to the huddle and to Fitz’s leadership. Watch the Lee Evans interview and tell me that Lee wants Trent back. I don’t think so.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent is the 23rd best quarterback in the league right now
? according to QB rating? Because Fitz’s QB rating is worse than Edwards’ is. Why do you want him so bad?
The defense and special teams have forced 10 turnovers in two games and the Bills’ positive turnover ratios are because Fitz isn’t throwing INTs?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying that I want him so bad, but I’m not going to give Fitz all the credit for the wins. We improved everywhere else on the field to get us those wins.
by TJJ on Oct 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent’s yards per attempt is slightly higher but his yards per completion is almost a yard less than Fitz. Yards per game is a pretty meaningless statistic right now since Fitz has 1.5 games under his belt. Average this week with the Houston game and then make comparisons. Fitz has actually thrown for 300 yards in 1 game before in his career where Edwards has not (Fitz has been the league longer but has fewer starts as he sat behind Palmer).
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really could care less about the 300 yard mark. I would rather have a balance of run and pass, our running game needs to get back to what it should be.
by TJJ on Oct 27, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I suppose the fact that it’s not is somehow Fitz’s fault as well?
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fitz’ is schooling him a bit on slinging the ball around
Fitz has three completions of 20 yards this year. I don’t know where this thought that Fitz has been able to throw down the field is coming from. Maybe he’s tried, but he’s been completely unable to make plays down the field. He’s actually been less effective both this year and last year then Edwards does in Edwards’ bad games.
Seriously, against Carolina, Fitz had completions of 50, 18, 14, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2(TD) and 11 incompletions. Here is how the 3rd downs went:
3rd and 9 – five yard scramble
3rd and 2 – incomplete pass
3rd and 15 – 6 yard completion
3rd and 11 – 18 yarder to Owens!
3rd and 13 – incomplete
3rd and 10 – sack
3rd and 5 – incomplete
3rd and 1 – QB sneak for 2 yards
3rd and 5 – incomplete
3rd and 12 – 7 yard completion to Lynch
3rd and 7 – 8 yard completion to Reed
Against Cleveland, Edwards had completions of 35, 18, 14, 13, 9, 9, 8, 8, 7, 7, 7, 4, 2, 2, 0, the last ditch lateral play and 15 incompletions. 3rd downs:
3rd and 14 – 8 yard completion to Jackson, penalties on Shaun Rogers and Hangartner
3rd and 8 – 6 yard completion to Owens
3rd and 6 – incomplete
3rd and 8 – 20 yard scramble by Edwards
3rd and 2 – defensive pass intereference
3rd and 4 – 13 yard completion to Owens
3rd and 16 – sack
3rd and 9 – 9 yard completion to Jackson (enough for first down)
3rd and 7 – 35 yarder on the slant to Lynch
3rd and 8 – 6 yard scramble
3rd and 14 – 7 yard completion to Evans
3rd and 6 – 7 yard completion to Lynch (caught beyond first down marker)
3rd and 3 – 2 yard completion to Lynch – unneccessary roughness on Lynch
3rd and 9 – 8 yard completion to Fine
3rd and 8 – roughing the passer
3rd and 13 – 12 yard scramble
And those are the two games in which Bills fans gave up on Edwards and decided that Fitz gave them a better chance to win? One of the worst couple games Edwards has ever played is pretty similiar to your average Fitz start and people think that Fitz is the better QB? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. The Bills wouldn’t have lost to the Browns without the 13 penalties, muff by Roscoe and consistent crappy starting field position. Edwards play didn’t help, but does Fitz really win that game? And then Fitz barely wins when the other team throws 6 INTs, beats a team that scores 7 points in a game where he had drives start at the Carolina 7, 20 and 27 and we’re giving up on Edwards because we think Fitz is a winner?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats 3 plays in a game and a half. How many does trent have in 5 games?
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can you talk about the average fitz start?
Fitz has started 1 game. not really fair to compare Trent’s multigame performance to Fitz’s 1 game and assume that Fitz’s performance was typical. Edwards and Fitz have similar numbers per game over their career.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean for his career. Both he and Trent have played games before October started.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And multigame performance? That was Fitz’s start this year compared to one of the worst Edwards has ever had. Here’s Fitz’s game log from last season:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7426/gamelog;ylt=AiLgYxTYbprC224Y7n4QK_.uLYF?year=2008
He’s terrible. His game against Carolina was very typical.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to be clear, what is it that you're advocating here?
are you saying you think Trent is better than Fitz or are you saying he has more ability?
I’d agree on the second one, but not on the first.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both. I think Fitz is very terrible, while Trent has just been terrible lately. I think as soon as Edwards is healthy, he needs to be in the game. I believe he gives this team a better chance to win and I don’t even think it’s close.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A season and a half is “lately?”
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the last three games. The rest of Edwards’ career has gone much better than Fitz’s career, including his two games this season.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Peters and Walker can regress, but Trent can't?
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Oct 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think as soon as Edwards is healthy, he needs to be in the game. I believe he gives this team a better chance to win and I don’t even think it’s close.
In complete agreement here.
by krytime on Oct 27, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with you on not jumping off of the USS Edwards. But in his limited time, Fitz appeared to attempt to involve his receivers more. I didn’t mean to imply that “sling” meant to exclusively throw deep. Yes Fitz’s yards per attempt aren’t much better than Edwards. But he seemed more decisive and had better pocket awareness than Trent has looked for the last few games. Unless he gives a Manningesque performance (and I’m not talking about the baby bro), Edwards should return to the helm when he is fully recovered. He may be looking over his shoulder though.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
supporting cast
I’m NOT comparing TE to these guys, but, look at the career starts of Aikman, Elway and Farve for example. They all struggled without an o-line in their early years. Dallas and Denver built o-lines to support their talented QB. Tampa was a whole other story. I maintain we don’t know what TE can do in a “normal” offensive environment. He’s been immersed in a revolving door o-line, a no huddle fiasco, and apparent acrimony among the coaches he is “learning” from. I think he is clearly more talented than Fitz. As another post mentioned, Fitz dealt with this same “atmosphere” in Cinci last year and thus is better at adapting to it. That is a short term anomaly. If we aren’t going to Miami in February, let TE back in. Of course, if Jauron thinks wins will save his job, then his judgement (such as it is) will be skewed. If nothing else, TE might show enough results where we can get something for him in offseason.
by fansince60 on Oct 27, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again.
Ryan Fitzpatrick. It is absolutely terrifying to say this, but get used to watching Fitzpatrick play, folks – there’s a very strong chance you’ll see him in the lineup for a while. Why? It’s pretty simple, really – Fitzpatrick currently gives Buffalo the best chance to win football games. That’s not saying a lot – for Trent Edwards or for Fitzpatrick.
Buffalo’s offense looks different with Fitzpatrick at the helm – no one can deny that. They’re much less prone to mistakes. The best examples there are turnovers (in eight quarters of play, the Bills have turned it over just once with Fitzpatrick at the helm), and far more importantly, sacks (Fitzpatrick has been sacked just twice in two games, whereas Edwards was sacked 19 times in a little over five games). Forget about their skills as a quarterback. If I know Dick Jauron, I’m looking at things like pocket presence, poise and decisiveness right now – because Fitzpatrick has displayed a crystal clear advantage in all three of those departments over the past two weeks, particularly in avoiding a solid Panthers pass rush and making a few really nice throws on Sunday.
Fitz/Trent Edwrards is shaping up to be the Flutie/Rob Johnson sequel.
I have less faith in Fitz saving the day then I did Flutie, but if that’s the direction we go, I hope he does.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why did we not go after Tyler Thigpen?
He slings the ball around.
2008 14G 14S 18TDs 12 INT
how could we not have given up a 5th round pick for him like the Dolphins? Did I mention he had 3 more rushing TDs?
Oh yeah, our front office.
Now he’ll sit on the Dolphins bench, so they don’t have to face him. ARRRGGHHHHHHH!
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
typo on last post
it was 14 games 11 started
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we have Fitzpatrick
Thigpen or Fitzpatrick, Fitzpatrick or Thigpen, why didn’t we bring in Thigpen, because we have Fitzpatrick and Edwards was healthy. We are doomed because we didn’t pick up Tyler Thigpen, I don’t buy it. I like Thigpen, he has some upside, but relax, let Ryan bury us before you throw the dirt.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
by VanScottM on Oct 27, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thigpen has way more upside......
Is more accurate, and is a better scrambler than Fitz and has proved he can do it.
A 5th round pick would have been a steal for him.
He is much better suited to this offense the Bills are trying to run with the current QBs than riding the pines in Miami.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe we've been reduced to pining for Tyler Thigpen.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id Take him in a heartbeat for a 5th
He is better suited to this offense than what we have.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s best suited to a shotgun-based offense – he ran the Pistol last year in KC – and is not anywhere near suited for Buffalo’s offense. Don’t use numbers to suggest playing style. Thigpen’s kind of a one-trick pony, and he belongs in a more innovative-looking offense like Miami’s, even if he’s just a reserve.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we've been running a shotgun based offense....
until trent got hurt.
We didn’t even use a fullback with trent once this year.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fullbacks have nothing to do with whether or not you line up in the shotgun. Edwards lines up in shotgun far more than Fitzpatrick does. Ours is only a shotgun-based offense because our quarterbacks suck, and we want them to see more of the field pre-snap.
Plus, it’s not like we can go out and get Thigpen now anyways – trade deadline has passed. I wouldn’t trade Miami anything for a crappy QB, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is what I am saying.
Where edwards failed in the shotgun I think Thigpen would succeeed.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, what you’re saying is that you thought Buffalo should have traded for him.
how could we not have given up a 5th round pick for him like the Dolphins? Did I mention he had 3 more rushing TDs?
Oh yeah, our front office.
You might think that Thigpen is better than Edwards, but you sound like you’re selling it as the cure to our ails, and that’s where I vehemently disagree. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't consider it a cure for all ails.
I just think it is a better situation than what we have.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, again, it’s a situation we can’t pursue, and obviously the front office saw it as, at best, a negligible upgrade talent-wise. Even if they’d made the move, he wouldn’t have played for a long time, as he’d have had to learn our offense. You can’t just plug-and-play at QB. So discussing it is pointless, and I’m gonna stop now. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you can't plug and play QBs
But I truly think for the offense installed, he would have been the best candidate.
Heck, I have seen fan posts by Keysh pining for David Carr/
Thigpen is the best choice for what is installed.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re all over the place. I really don’t even know what you’re trying to argue anymore. First you call out the front office for not trading for him; now I’m getting the vibe that you think he’s the answer for next year, when we’re likely to have an entirely new offense, as well as coaches and the like.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think
With the offense installed currently, he would be a good fit
I also think Parcells saw it too
So he gave up a 5th rounder just so he could ride the pines
So he wouldn’t have to face him and possibly lose the 2nd meeting, thats how the tuna thinks.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, they traded for him because Chad Pennington went on IR, Chad Henne had never made a start, Pat White was only used for specific formations, and Thigpen had a little experience and could be had on the cheap because KC didn’t want him. Let’s not make Parcells out into some evil genius who trades for guys so he doesn’t have to play them. That’s not how the NFL works – that’s how fantasy football works.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will respectfully disagree
Chad Henne was drafted to be the quarterback of the future
Pat White was drafted for the wildcat.
Who better to get for your third Qb
than the best one who would fit in a division rivals offensive system, especially when he has performed already
and all it cost was a 5th rounder
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that was Bill Parcells’ strategy – and it wasn’t – then he knows nothing about the Buffalo Bills.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't be so sure of yourself
that wasn’t the tuna’s strategy
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heck he beat the best offense in the NFL
with journeyman Hostletler
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how that applies…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just that the Tuna
Knows his stuff,
He was the first I studied and Bill Walsh was the 2nd,
The two Bills both know their stuff.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id be stunned if Bill Parcells traded for Tyler Thigpen because he was scared the Bills might get him.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well now I’M scared the Bills might get him. :/
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t trade Miami anything for a crappy QB, either.
Even for Thigpen?!? :)
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL – no, not even for Thigpen.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny how a wilingness to use whatever works, even if it is from a high school playbook, is considered “innovative” in the NFL. The league seems structured to give no-one a chance to try anything new. If Parcells wasn’t with the Dolphins they would have been laughed at the moment they ran out the wildcat. Now they embrace it, and to the good. If only there was something really wacky and different the Bills could do to make their offense work.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they should try runblocking
or bringing in a competent quarterback. i bet those are the next big things.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How true. I think good run blocking is contagious. We have the RBs who can take over a game if they are given the chance. The next team we face with poor run defense, we need to call runs until we don’t get first downs any more. The line will get into it and the issue should fix itself.
It’s better to work that out while it’s 0-0 so if you have a lead at the end your guys are ready to run the clock out.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
The only reason to do that is if you think this is a playoff team with thigpen under center.
Otherwise, take a shot with your fifth. Good players do sometimes emerge that late in a draft.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I just think,,,,
If we want to have a greatest show on turf on offense, and make no mistake that is what fairchild brought and has continued with schonert and avp with a few wrinkles
Thigpen is much better for that style.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TE and JP
Coincidence? The once promising careers of both QB’s have been derailed by skittishness in the pocket. If Fitz comes down with the same bug then we’ll know the source.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trent is starting to look more like Rob Johnson than JP, he just got a lot less money than RJ
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sad but true
Rookie are like teabags...you don't know what you're gonna get until you put them in hot water. -Harry Neale
by weswed51 on Oct 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent and Rob Johnson seem to be a lot alike in the fact that they seem more interested in stats and playing it safe as opposed to doing whatever it took/takes to win. flutie and fitz are alike as well in that stats didn’t matter, the W did/does. with the current offensive philosophy/offensive line i think fitz is a better fit at this point.
with regards to Marshawn, he is a back that needs carriers. I don’t think sharing the workload maximizes his output in games. Freddy seems to thrive on making plays in a small amount of plays. I say run the hell out of marshawn this week, bring Freddy in for 15 plays and protect fitz.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent and Rob Johnson seem to be a lot alike in the fact that they seem more interested in stats and playing it safe as opposed to doing whatever it took/takes to win.
I was thinking the same thing. I believe that JP was also corralled into this type of thinking, which was completely against his nature.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Trent show more guts earlier in his career? He needs to get back to playing this way, even if he may have more starting experience than the entire starting 5 lineman combined.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent had guts until the hit by Adrian Wilson with the Cards last season. He’s been skiddish ever since.
by Slick Shifty on Oct 27, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all we can hope is this concussion................
Knocks the fears out of his head of the last one,
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats wishful thinking
Any potential Trent had was lost when he got concussed in Arizona last year. This second concussion is like the final nail in the coffin. As a Bills fan, I too wish that Trent Edwards was the QB of the future and the answer to our prayers. But he so clearly is not. He is backup quality at best. Fitz is on a winning streak, there’s no reason to disrupt that. Also, a lot of people state that Jauron is very loyal to his QB. That’s a pile of crap. Jauron jerked Losman and Edwards around the last two years and was flopping QB’s non-stop when he coached in Chicago. His only winning season was one where the games were split between two QBs.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's Ted Stryker!
…from the Airplane movies. Once a great pilot, then there was an incident that turned him into a head case. I thought I spotted Trent dribbling his Gatorade on the sidelines. Where’s Robert Stack when you need him.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was concerned that people would be too young to be familiar with the movie. BTW, my 6 year-old son was quite taken with the scene of topless girl bouncing across the screen. I completely forgot about it. My wife was not amused.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a classic movie
funny how you forget about scenes such as those until it’s too late.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I would have remembered that scene in particular.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying is the day at Macho Grande is what is ailing Edwards?
by krytime on Oct 27, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
over macho grande?
No I’ll never get over macho grande
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that Chad Macho Grande of the Bengals?
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
played pretty well against san diego
and the first two weeks of this year.
that’s my problem with Trent, I don’t understand him at all. He’s Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, as I’ve said so many times this year.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is going to be a bit scary but Rob Johnson was a much more productive Bill than TE
Rob Johnson’s Career numbers with the Bills:
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1998 BUF 8 67 107 62.6 910 8.5 8 66 3 102.9
1999 BUF 2 25 34 73.5 298 8.8 2 42 0 119.5
2000 BUF 12 175 306 57.2 2125 6.9 12 74 7 82.2
2001 BUF 8 134 216 62.0 1465 6.8 5 61 7 76.3
Trent Edwards:
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2007 BUF 10 151 269 56.1 1630 6.1 7 70 8 70.4
2008 BUF 14 245 374 65.5 2699 7.2 11 65 10 85.4
2009 BUF 6 91 153 59.5 985 6.4 5 43 6 73.0
I think the most notable is the QB rating…
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but the Bills had a pretty awesome defense for many of those years. A little better production from the QB spot would have made a huge difference.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fitz
Fitz has won the last 5 games he has been in. If he wins this week there not really be any dispute no matter how bad he plays that we should ride the wave with him.
If he doesn’t play well and they lose then we will see where Edwards is with his recovery.
Field position was HUGE in the first half. Yes, special teams had a part in that but Fitz not taking bad sacks helped. Also, it seems there are substantially less pre-snap oline penalties when they are listening to Fitz’s snap count as oppose to Trent’s.
Let the D win you ball games. McCargo is going to have to have a good game this week if the Bills are to slow down Houston.
by Berg79 on Oct 27, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I have to slow down my typing and learn to re-read. First sentence is all messed up.
by Berg79 on Oct 27, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really need to see a win on Sunday against Houston.
Before I can EVER consider jumping on the Fitz bandwagon.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 27, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not so much a bandwagon as a life raft
floating away from the sinking ship that is trent’s career.
hold on, i need to go become an english major.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im not a Fitz fan
I just am thoroughly convinced that Edwards is a bust. Might as well give Fitz a shot.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how people are even considering that it’s going to be that easy for Trent to “get healthy.” He’s had two significant concussions within a year’s time.
If I were him, I would seriously consider retiring, so he can still have the chance to walk and speak like a normal person for the rest of his life. (BTW, I’ve always been Trent supporter).
I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.
by thefourwinds on Oct 27, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whoa, injecting real life considerations into a discussion of football? check out the gladwell article in the New Yorker on concussions, dementia, and dog fighting.
by oompaloompa on Oct 27, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i read that too.
scary stuff. Really makes you change the way you think about football.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
link:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good read thanks for putting that link up
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
by poz on Oct 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are a few people where i'll read anything they write. Gladwell is one of them.
so is Ron from NM
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends upon the severity of the concussion
It might be a tad early to pull the plug on his career. A line that can protect him may be a better prescription. Besides, Troy Aikman seem to be doing a good job in the broadcast booth after all of his concussions. I just puked on my keyboard writing that!
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the LB's
it’s a bit upsetting that a street free agent can walk in and start two weeks later. On the one hand im glad that Jauron et al aren’t being stubborn and sticking with what’s not working, but on the other hand—talk about seriously misjudging your own roster.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
talk about seriously misjudging your own roster.
See Walker, Langston (moving him, then cutting him)
Numerous other examples.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB
backup QB’s never lead a team to the playoffs. How many examples can anyone give of a backup coming in midseason, and leading that team to the playoffs? Tom Brady? Ryan Fitzpatrick is a clear backup for a reason. He may win us 3 games, but he’ll also lose us 3 games. If Dick Jauron and company put Edwards on the bench for the season, it is just another indictment of the inability of this organization and coaching staff to EVALUATE their own freakn talent. QB controversies arise because neither guy is any good. I will say Fitzpatrick looks better in the 2 weeks I’ve seen him, but he threw 9 INT’s last season in 13 games and was sacked 38 times! He is not going to keep up throwing for 123 yds and winning games. If you want to win this season, you get Edwards ready during the bye week and give him the keys to the offense back.
I just can’t believe they evaluated that Edwards was the guy. I just thank God they didn’t sign him to a big, fat contract in the off-season. Fitzpatrick has a small chance to succeed if somehow, that OL could open some friggn running lanes for once in their lives
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fitzpatrick has a small chance to succeed if somehow, that OL could open some friggn running lanes for once in their lives
… or like in Weeks 1-5.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and your damn facts, brian.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
regardless of how you slice it
our total offense is brutal. Our first downs per games is atrocious. That’s my point they can never have balance, rythym, and success in a game, minus week 1.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just thank God they didn’t sign him to a big, fat contract in the off-season.
They’re waiting for him to throw his first 300 yard game before locking him up for life. I heard the contract was all ready before the Cleveland game.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
please dont scare me like that.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stranger things have happened… See: Jauron, Dick
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Hostetler
sorry to bring up a soar subject.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trent vs Fitz
Trent threw 10 interceptions in 14 games last year…he was sacked 23 times. He also fumbled a bunch.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kurt Warner won a SB after starting the year as the backup
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't Trent get hurt in preseason thus making Warner the opening day starter?
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but he was the backup QB going in, right?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was using Marv's question literally
as in name a backup QB that came in during the middle of the season and led the team to the playoffs.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent Dilfer 2000 Baltimore Ravens
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Garcia
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And mine are just Super Bowl winning QB’s.
The fact is, football more than almost any other sport is a team game, and there is more than one way to skin the cat. If you have good defense and special teams paired with an offense that doesn’t turn the ball over, good things happen, the happen ugly, but they do happen.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Get used to seeing Fitzpatrick..."
I don’t think so.
The only reason he’s playing is that Edwards got hurt. When he’s healthy, TE will back as Dick Jauron’s starting quarterback, as per normal. Anyway, last I looked, the head coach makes that decision, not internet bloggers.
by ccthemovieman on Oct 27, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
easy now.
i dont think brian was insinuating that he makes the personnel calls for buffalo.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. Y’all might like me a lot more if I made personnel calls for the Bills. Or, you’d hate me as much as everyone currently with the team. :)
All I’m saying is this, ccthemovieman:
From the fan perspective, obviously we should want Edwards in the lineup. It’s best for the long-term of this team to find out unequivocally what we have in him. He’s clearly a more talented passer, too. I, personally, want Edwards to return to the lineup, because my interests lie in the long-term future of the franchise.
Dick Jauron? His interests lie in winning as many games as possible this season. That’s his job. Trent has sucked. Fitzpatrick obviously gives his team a chance to win. He’s gone with the hot hand in the past (see: Edwards, Trent) despite having a young QB with only one full season of starting experience under his belt and some solid potential (see: Losman, J.P.). Sounds familiar, right? I’m telling you right now – if we beat Houston and/or Fitzpatrick plays well in a close loss, you’re going to see Fitzpatrick in the lineup for the foreseeable future. I’m not making the decision. I just know that’s what Jauron will do, because that’s his job right now.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’ll say that he really likes Trent and really likes Ryan. He really likes both guys, obviously. I can just hear the press conference now. Barf.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they make you vomit, why do you listen?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a condition brian.
we’re having an intervention next week.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the same reason I tune into the Bills games each week! Insanity is often described as doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree
Jauron is a man of character. You know that, and he and Trent are pretty close. He wouldn’t bench him (“awhile,” as you put it) just because he got hurt and couldn’t play a couple of games. That’s just not him. I’m talking person, not head football coach, although most coaches in most sports would do the same (insert the starter back when ready. It’s just the way it is.
If he had benched Edwards for poor play, it would be different. Then TE would be in trouble if his backup out-performed him.
by ccthemovieman on Oct 27, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Like it or not – and you’re right, Jauron definitely respects Edwards and likes him as a person – the Bills were 1-4 with him at QB. They’re 2-0 with Fitzpatrick. Jauron is coaching for his job. He can no longer try to play guys for future purposes, which is pretty much what he’d be doing if he took Fitzpatrick out of the lineup after 3 straight wins or 2-1 with a solid performance against Houston.
Jauron can be a man of character and leave Fitzpatrick in the lineup.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coaches don't do that
Starters don’t lose their job because of an injury. It’s just a fact. I’ve seen it over and over and over in all sports, (i.e. baseball with Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, Tito Francona,…even if the sub comes in and bats .400 for two weeks! He’s done as soon as the starter is healthy, even if that guy is only hitting .240. It can get frustrating, as a fan.)
Maybe I’m overestimating Jauron’s friendship with his QB, but you’d be amazed how coaches play an underachieving vet (who gets paid bigger bucks, too) over a no-name sub – even if the sub plays better! I think part of it is being with these athletes day after day, week after week, month after month. Many of them get too close and, frankly, don’t have the balls to bench their starters.
by ccthemovieman on Oct 27, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
J.P. Losman lost his job because of an injury. Forget about all sports. Jauron himself has done it.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball and football don’t compare in this regard. Each game in football means too much. In baseball, over time, the good injured player coming back would be better for your team the his replacement. Football is a lot more immediate. Bledsoe lost his starting position and his job in New England because he was injured legging out a run. Happens all of the time in the NFL.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent is DJ's boy
and will start again – presumably, the first week after the bye week – when all concussion concerns are over.
Bank on it.
by ccthemovieman on Oct 27, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it when people are 100% confident in completely opposite viewpoints. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew Bledsoe lost his job
with the Pats due to injury, and the rest was history. Remember him watching, healthy and suited up and very jealous, as the Pats won their first SB?
by Sixteenthback on Oct 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can you say...
How do we not unequivocally know that Edwards sucks at this point? I’m confused, how much more bumbling do we need to see? Maybe 3-4 more slow floating deep balls to get picked off by the defense? I want to see Trent lead the team to at least 5 more red zone 3 and outs before I make up my mind… Lets watch him throw to Fred Jackson when both of his wide outs are open a few more times before we decide….
Face it, we already know Edwards is a bust (it may be due to the concussions or not, but he sucks). The Bills are better off playing Fitz for the rest of the season and see what he can do. Its doubtful that Fitz will lead the team to the playoffs, but it does feel like the team has a small chance to win with Fitz that is not there with edwards. Either way, this team will clearly be in the market for a head coach and a quarterback after this season. The question is wether they will need a backup QB as well…
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say that we know unequivocally that Edwards sucks. I’m saying that lack of knowledge will not play into Jauron’s decision after the bye.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you didn’t and I’m asking how you could possibly be so delusional as to not know that he does suck at this point. What more proof are you looking for? Tell me which successful QB throws for less than 200 yards in 66% of his starts? Which Successful QB failed to throw for 300 yards once in his first three seasons? There are lots more reasons if you need them…
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has sucked. We need unequivocal proof that he will continue to suck. There’s a difference.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t need any more proof. Its quite clear that he will continue to suck. Last year his numbers were barely acceptable, this year he has regressed. What are you waiting to see? please be specific. How do we know when we are certain that he will continue to suck? He has not given us any reason to think he is improving and now has a second concussion (looks to be more severe also). Trent is not a proven winner. he didn’t win in college either. We are stuck with a crappy QB because of the recommendations of an 80 year old man (bill Walsh) who was probably less than on top of things when he made the endorsement seeing as he died a few weeks later.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he comes back and plays like he did the 6 weeks of last year, and the first two weeks of this year.
that’s what you’d be looking for. I’m about as hopeful that that happens as you are, but that’s become the purpose of this season.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Trent has more than proved himself not worthy. There is no reason to continue to watch him fail.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to Fitz?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not saying that fitz is the answer
Im just pretty certain Trent is not the answer. Given that Fitz has about 10 fewer starts than Trent, yes I’d say Fitz has not yet had the opportunities to prove himself that trent has. Fitz has thrown for 300 yards though, so he has that going for him.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do we know when we are certain that he will continue to suck?
I said the full year before the season, and I’ll stick to that.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have more faith than I do in Captain Checkdown. Explain to me why you think he has a chance? His arm is weak, he’s indecisive, his best game was 230 yards. All his big wins have been more a result of the defense and special teams than anything Trent did. Trent is a good fit for the Jauron system because he plays not to lose. I’d rather see a player in there that is playing to win, even if its Gibran Hamdan
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has a chance because he’s a smart kid. And apparently I put more stock in that than you do. Either way, my point in this article was that if Fitzpatrick plays well against Houston, he stays in the lineup if the Bills don’t get blown out, so I’m not sure why my opinions on Edwards are relevant here.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 27, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could take Captain Checkdown out of there and replace it with Fitz and it’s a more accurate assesment. At least I’m arguing that Edwards is better than Fitz. I don’t think either of them are very good and I’m looking forward to drafting a QB in the first round, but at least I’m comparing them. You seem to be arguing that Edwards is so bad that anybody else is a better option.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 27, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true…
The fact that the Bills have become one of the more pathetic franchises is clear evidence that internet bloggers are not making the decisions.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Real Offensive Line
I think Trent would be pretty decent if he had a decent O-line to protect him. Imagine if he or Fitzy had the kind of time that opposing quarterbacks have had this year. If I was taking that kind of beating every game I’d be hesitant, too.
If this O-line doesn’t get any better we will see Hamdan in the next few weeks!
by IthacaBillsFan on Oct 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ah, back to the root cause.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of my frustration with the way the bills have handled the QB position
is that it feels like they’re shooting for “pretty decent with a real offensive line.”
The rest of the league (minus Tennessee and Denver) seems to be looking for a guy who can be the franchise QB if they don’t already have one. It’s almost as if we were looking for the Baltimore Ravens’ Trent Dilfer (from back when they were awesome and Dilfer just handed the ball off), but we never built the team around him.
My problem with that is 1. they seriously misjudged the rest of the team if they thought all they needed to win was aTrent Dilfer, and 2. why lower your ceiling like that? Why not go get someone who can win games for you?
I dunno, just rambling
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point. I guess that the guys we’ve had here have performed so poorly I’d probably be tricked into being happy with a decent QB.
Great skill players don’t do you any good if you don’t have a good line.
by IthacaBillsFan on Oct 27, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a real offensive line
would just make Trent sit back there for longer and be more indecisive than he already is. Maybe this second conussion will have set him mind back to weeks 1-4 of last year!
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is everyone saying Trent is indecisive?
He clearly knows he’s going to throw it to the running back out of the backfield on nearly every pass.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now, now
To be fair to the man, I bet he’d toss it to a wide receiver if he ran a 1 yard curl.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. I can just picture that route. Its called the "pirouette’.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol. could you imagine three receivers doing to at once! Miami may have the wildcat, but the Bills have the triple pirouette!
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
by NJBill on Oct 27, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a serious note, Van Pelt needs to just treat Schonert’s playbook like what it is and wipe his ass with it. That 0 yard throw to the TE on the outside has got to be from Schonert. If you take the TE and move him even 5 yds up field, that’s a play that can get you somewhere.
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep. this is funny.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
great comment gatornation.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can laugh now
but while I’m at the game it’s not so funny. I don’t get mad anymore though. not worth it.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
it is what it is. When you have a FO/organization with no plan, mission or identity, and can’t evaluate their own talent, you have to rely on “hope”. Let’s hope Fitz is good, let’s hope Maybin can rush the passer, let’s hope 4 OL with zero career starts coming into the season can play, let’s hope AVP is better than Turk, let’s hope if we don’t turn it over, we get turnovers, that we can win. No plan = no success.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m too the point now, and have been since the Cleveland game, that if there are no serious changes made to this team next year (GM, coach, qb, etc.) I won’t be renewing my season tickets. I hate that it’s come to that but it has. during the games I sit back and watch, that’s it, I can’t even route for this team anymore.
I thought the SF game last year was the low point, I took my pops to the game and midway through the 3rd qtr. I apologized to him for sitting through such crap. then this year’s cleveland game came along. I’m not even going to talk about that game. I’m a frustrated fan to say the least.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
a win against Houston this week would go a long way for season ticket holders like yourself. I just hope the team can step up and play with the same defensive/ST’s tenacity it has the last 2 weeks. The whole message in that organization this week has to be “Our season relies on this week vs Houston. We win, we all get a week off, get healthy, and will fight to the end with 8 games to go when we get back”
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would go a long way, I’m just not convinced that this coaching staff can get over that proverbial hump. I don’t think it’s coincidence that this team has finished 7-9 for what seems like eternity. do I want to see short term success at the expense of potential long term gain, no.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as bad as the line is
I prefer to call the mine young than bad. but as bad as they have played at times, there have still been plenty of plays where the qb has had time. Fitz has made completions or hit TO in the hands on those occasions, trent stands back there and looks and looks and then dumps it off to a checkdown. the guy cant read the deep field and hes not improving. to make it worse, when trent throws deep, the ball floats in and the receivers have to break their stride or even stop and wait for it. the last two games the commentators have used words like “bullet” “threaded the needle” “rocket” etc to describe some of fitz’s passes. When has Trent ever thrown a bullet?
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before, that pass to Lee in the end zone? Trent would NEVER have made that pass. Ever.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Oct 27, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know the difference between Edwards & Fitz off the field?
I am just curious, because I have heard rumors that Trent is a little quiet, to himself, and a guy that likes to pass the blame. This leaves me to expect he doesn’t have all the respect he should have from alot of his teammates. Now if Fitz has a leader type attitude, then I think that is what we need. We need someone to be able to give this team a little confidence. Excuse my rambling. Carry on.
by Jaynice on Oct 27, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's actually a good point
last year Trent would always make mention of his play but others as well, thus giving the perception of calling out players even if it wasn’t by name. Fitz seems to be more free wheeling and loose, maybe a little like Favre. I’m not saying he’s that type of player but attitude wise I think it’s comparable.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fitz personality
The general message I have gotten from interviews and articles about Fitz is that he is out-going and well liked by the players. Several offensive players made a point of saying how he got them fired up on the field. Several of them said so in a way that kind of called out Trent as not being able to do the same. Listen to the interviews on the Bills website.
by Polish Lover on Oct 27, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Fitz and D-bell talk about their totally similar college experiences
at Harvard and Nothwestern….err scratch that. Northwestern State.
is there a bigger difference between schools by just adding State to the name. Maybe Pittsburgh and Pittsburg State?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your example, adding the “State” puts you in totally different states :)
Northwestern is in Illinois, Northwestern State (in this case) is in Louisiana
Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh State is in Kansas.
Oh , the power of one word!
by syrbillsfan on Oct 27, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love it.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no H in Pittsburg State
So technically, the “state” doesn’t change anything!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it does.
it change it from a real college to a nonentity, what greater change could there be? :)
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think Fitz
drinks more beer, and is a more “regular” guy. Trent seems kind of surfer, CA aloof….which reminds me way too much of another CA cat we had
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I drink a ton of beer.
Maybe I should try my hand as an NFL signal caller. I am also quite good at been bag toss.
Founding member of the Dick Jauron Fan Club.
by taskersd on Oct 27, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you
can’t have Hamdan’s job. That guy is one of the best 3rd stringers in the NFL the way he holds that clipboard. You can just tell Evans loves Fitz way more than Edwards. He gets more opportunities, and on NFLN the other day, Deion diagrammed plays where Evans has been consistently open all year. Even though T.O. sucks, he still draws coverage, and Evans is reaping the rewards. Evans/Fitz chemistry is what we need to start scoring points
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like I wrote last week
can’t we just accept that every QB has better chemistry with Evans than Trent Edwards does?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant!!! Couldn't agree more! Well said Brian!
Owens. Part of me just wants to see a guy like Fitzpatrick or Lee Evans rip into this guy. Buffalo does what it can to get him involved early in games, and T.O. just lets the opportunities slip through his hands – literally. Nothing would help the Bills more in games such as the ones they’ve played over the past two weeks than grabbing an early lead. Owens has had chances to make plays early in ball games – whether to sustain drives or of bigger scale – and those opportunities have been blown. Not only would it be fun to see the bemused expression on Owens’ face if Fitzpatrick lit him up on the sidelines (yes, I’m aware it’ll never happen), but it might actually provoke Owens to act like he gives a crap on the football field.
by Michael_Necci on Oct 27, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice review Brian
The offense has been less mistake prone, but hardly better. Glad you didn’t phrase it like that. It’s still quite awful. At some point, the O needs to make more plays and can’t rely on the D bailing them out with turnovers. This week against the high powered Texans O, we’ll need a whole lot more out of the offense.
It’s kind of sad that Fitzpatrick isn’t playing well, but it’s much better than Edwards simply because he hasn’t made many mistakes yet. Unfortunately, with his erratic play, I think mistakes will come in bunches when they come….
I wish someone would slap TO. Maybe he needs the Clifford Franklin treatment. “Coach, ain’t that stuff illegal?”
The running game is problematic to say the least. There just aren’t any holes being opened. Our interior is starting to really struggle. They should have been so much better against a poor, shorthanded Panthers interior DL. The tackles aren’t helping either. We are desperate for better play out of that position.
Any word on Williams? We can’t be expecting McCargo to provide much going forward.
The run D was better than I thought it’d be against Carolina, but that isn’t saying much. They still got gashed, but didn’t give up the big play. Draft seems like the best option we have right now, so I’m glad they’re rolling with him.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 27, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
vs Houston
the weather is predicted as of now 45, 20 mph wind, rain. Schaub has a pussy arm, that will nosedive in those winds. Our defense is poised to have another great day
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great
can’t wait to sit through that one !! nothing better than sideways rain. they better win!
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey
if they win, it will be well worth it! It’s all about our running game this week. If Brian’s analysis is correct, getting Jonathan Scott back, and preaching the running game, is the key to success this week. Gotta keep the ball out of Houston’s offense.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
by MARVelous on Oct 27, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do want them to win, no doubt
and it will be better if they do. I hope they do run the ball more often. they need to pound Marshawn. I don’t think he’s a good rotational back. He needs carries to get going and he hasn’t had that yet. no better time then this week to do so.
by gatornation on Oct 27, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent Edwards....
looks like hes going to going on an Alex Smith type career path.
by Xaviermw on Oct 27, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a much more complementary statement today than it was 3 days ago.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah i just realized that.
besides trent will never do this
by Xaviermw on Oct 27, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weather (rain/wind) would be a huge help to stop the passing Texans.
Slaton may get me lots of Fantasy points, but the cat doesn’t put up yardage!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's 12th in the NFL in total yards per game
that’s not terrible
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Oct 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While a lot of people have talked about how Fitz has had the benefit of the turnovers and the "Huddle" Offense,
i haven’t heard anyone mention that Trent got the benefit of an actual running game, whereas Fitz…has not.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Oct 27, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Byrd has looked impressive the past 2 weeks
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
There are times in my life wheere I have self-doubt, but when this happens, I simply ask myself: What would Don Draper do? So I bone a random whore.
by Patssuck456 on Oct 27, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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