Philosophical discussion on mindset - what type of fan are you?
Let me start by saying that I am a huge Buffalo Bills fan and I want them to win more than anything. Leading up to the draft we as avid fans like to discuss the potential players and their value to our team, we discuss available free agents and which ones that could have an impact on our beloved team. We talk and discuss for basically what amounts to 8 months of jibberrish because we have nothing else better to do while awaiting out favorite team to take the field in the first meaningful game of their new season. At which point all we really have is positive hope on the up-coming season.
What I wanted to discuss today is the make-up of that hope. What I mean by that is I'd like to discover what makes Rumblers tick, what most of you want out of this team. In recent weeks I've been dumbfounded by the reactions to certain discussions and I figured it was high time to investigate what makes Rumblers tick, find out if we are all over the map or if we are united in our quest to conquer the NFL
Have you ever stopped and wondered what type of fan you are?
Are you a sadist / masochist?
Are you a fan that gets his rocks off being a bottom feeder, a team that is constantly ridiculed in the press. Don't laugh because I am certain that some people like the pity attention that losing teams get.
Are you a week to week fan?
Simply a football fan that has adopted the Bills as your team and there's nothing wrong with this type of fan by the way. A fan that enjoys watching football each week, preferably a good game. Someone who doesn't really give a dam about the business side of the game, someone who simply wants to watch a good game from week to week. This type of fan is not really concerned with the bigger picture of the season and future season, this fan simply wants to see the best possible players from week to week to be able to see a reasonably good game. This type of fan is probably going to be a Bills fans again the following year but could also decide to change teams.
Are you a righteous fan?
Let's face it, there are a lot of problems in the NFL today, a lot of misconducts from superstar players that think they are above reproach and I certainly will not condone their actions. Every team in the NFL would prefer only having high character players but should it be at the expense of fielding a competitive team? The choice between good & evil is not always that easy, some guys are obvious but most people have had errors in their past and teams have to make a tough decision when a superstar has had a few bumps in the road. The righteous fan is the one who will prefer to have a high character team period regardless of anything else. The righteous fan is quite content to watch his team win or lose as long as he can be proud of their effort & character on and off the field. Character is more important than winning for the Righteous fan.
The eternal optimist?
I refer to these guys as the cool aid drinkers. The eternal optimist is a great fan because no matter what the team does, he find something positive to grab on to. This is a very loyal fan. This fan does not normally like to criticize his team instead choosing to find positive developments each week to focus on. The optimist doesn't look that far into the future because he believes that things can work themselves out over time. This fan is generally a happy one regardless of what happens on the field week to week.
The eternal Pessimist?
This is the type of guy that always finds something to be critical about. This fan is never happy regardless what happens on the field, obviously after a blow out win he'd be positive but he is happiest when there are problems to discuss, when things aren't perfect, which gives him the platform to spread his wings and criticize. This fans tend to be quite loyal they just choose to express themselves through a critical eye.
The GM in training?
My favorite fan of all, the fans that think they know better than management. This fan is quite passionate about his team and is highly critical of personnel decisions and moves. This fan is highly critical of the coaching staff and front office. The GM in training is highly opinionated and normally views things at the macro level, choosing to view the season as a whole and look 2-3 years down the road. This type of fan is normally more concerned with the ability to go all the way than the winning of any individual game, building a team that could win the superbowl is more important than winning from week to week.
There you have it. Now I'm interested in knowing where most Rumblers fit in this list.
This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.
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Comments
I think I fall between optimist and Pessimist…and therein lies the only option you missed….the Realist
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 31, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
im an optimist
but heres how i feel about the Bills and why I’m an optimist:
Losing stinks, I hate it. I love this teams and when we make the playoffs after such a long drought I will be overwhelmed with joy. That said, I’ll never not watch game, I’ll never stop cheering for the team, and I’ll never hope for better draft position. Maybe its selfish but when the Bills win my week is just better. I feel good immediately after the game and I have an extra spring in my step. Every day that week is awesome. I’m smiling all the time and thinking about my favorite plays. When the team loses my week stinks. The week goes slow because I’m waiting for next Sunday for a chance to win like watching a pot when your waiting for it to boil – time slows down , work is depressing , and I’m generally a bit down.
I also love our players. I love watching them play. No matter how bad the team is I enjoy keeping an eye on Brad Butler or Keith Ellison or Terrence McGee all game long. They are donning the red white and blue and their our guys and I enjoy watching them – how they read plays, their attitude after big plays or big mistakes, their communication, technique, everything. I love football, its the greatest game on Earth and I love the Bills, the greatest team on Earth. I’m just happy watching the team play – to me no matter how bad we are its the best football.
Go Bills!
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
by poz on Oct 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Optimist
However, I feel that I am perhaps some sort of combination of all of these fans. I’ve always thought that Bills fans are in some way masochistic. Why else do we put ourselves through this team’s agonizing defeats every week/season?
This year, since I have realized over the course of the last decade of Bills football that anything can happen, I have taken a much more “week to week” approach. Hoping that things would work themselves out and just enjoying each game, one at a time. For as we all know, it’s not how you start or how you finish the season, it’s the season as a whole that counts. So in that way, I’ve tried to not get too high after a win, or too low after a defeat, and simply try to enjoy the games as they come.
Unfortunately, I am the eternal optimist in too many ways. After a crushing loss I say, look at the schedule ahead. We have some wins coming. There is just nothing better than a win, and hoping for losses is just ridiculous.
At times however, with this team that appears itself to be masochistic at times, it is hard not to be pessimistic sometimes. Honestly, who loses so many games in such a heart-breakingly brutal fashion? I say no one.
And finally, when the season ends, I become the GM in training. Critiqueing (spelling?) the front offices every move that led us astray over the last season. Pondering moves for the future, if I were in charge.
So maybe, I am the Bills themselves. I have no real identity, except that I am a Bills fan. My optimism, like the Bills special teams, is always high, but even that can sometimes be torn down over a stretch of games…..
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Oct 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed - a mixture
Except I will not change teams like the week to week.
by o.c.blazerfan on Nov 2, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m part GM-type, because I ALWAYS have opinions on free agents and the draft and the like. But once decisions are made, I take a “wait and see” approach. During games, I’d call myself the “exasperated” fan – I don’t yell and stomp at people or in general when they suck, and I’m only cautiously optimistic in-game when things are going well. I tend to get much more excited/depressed during the week than I do on Sundays. I’m optimistic by nature, but not to the point of delusion.
You got a category for all that? :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way – nice FanPost idea.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Oct 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian.....
you echo my sentiments exactly. But it certainly sounds like you are someone who would ramble on and would be talking to yourself. Rooting for this team can do that to you. I think all of us can get a bit schizophrenic. At one moment I can be wondering how I ever put myself through this and then they pull off a victory and all is good with the world again-LOL.
by Byrdeputt on Oct 31, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you fit predominantly in the GM profile.
BTW, I deliberately didn’t put the Realist because it shared a lot of common traits with the GM in training with a minor in optimism and pessimism.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree and put myself in the GM category as well
There is a little of each category in all of us.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Oct 31, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some days it seems that everyone is a pessimist (not just Kurupt- lol)
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotta agree,and I think it means you're a realist-fan hybrid
I am down most of the week, but when its Sunday, I am optimistic that we can win ANY game… until I am proved otherwise. Every Sunday I forget all the losses, all the miscues, and all the weak performances… however on the same note, i forget all the wins, all the triumph, and the touchdowns…
Any given Sunday, I’ll take the Bills no matter what… even if by the 3rd quarter, the week of being weary has begun
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 31, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that description.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 2, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
keysh....
Please place a choice for all of the above and I’ll choose that.
by Byrdeputt on Oct 31, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
choose one
the predominant one
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im in the "realist" camp too even though I choose optimist
Because Im always optimistic going into the year (not counting this year though the first time ever!)
But when my team sucks……I recognize it and accept it……but I will always hold out hope that I will be proven wrong.
"Maybe Fitzy just has a horsehoe up his ass winning the two games he has, but you don’t bench someone who has a horseshoe up his ass." - Applsoss
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Oct 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I will always hold out hope that I will be proven wrong
to me this sounds like an optimist
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats why I said I choose optimist in the poll
:-)
"Maybe Fitzy just has a horsehoe up his ass winning the two games he has, but you don’t bench someone who has a horseshoe up his ass." - Applsoss
by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we’re fans… of course we want to be proven wrong… we want Trent to go deep, we want TO to hang on to the ball, we want Lee to take a short out and turn it up field to the house, we want poz to ave 15 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and an INT, we want Byrd to go to the Hall of Fame… we jsut have to see it to believe it… we want it to be “real”
Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!
by killascript on Oct 31, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking for a loyalist/realist/optimist category
As long as they are the Buffalo Bills, they’ll be my team, as they have been for the last 47 years. I am often overly optimistic at the beginning of a season, but not if they were particularly dismal the previous year. I will keep watching a horrible game to the bitter end, not expecting anything but hoping to see at least one good play, and taking some rather pathetic satisfaction if my persistence is rewarded. I’m sad if they’re losing and glad when they win, but my identity isn’t wrapped up in their success to the extent that I’m depressed or ecstatic depending on the outcome of the game (although that first Super Bowl was hard, hard, hard.) I’m not at all embarrassed about the Bills license plate frame or the Bills coffee cup that I cart around the office every day (I haven’t lived in Buffalo for the past 23 years), no matter how bad a season they are having. I guess being a fan is sort of a tribal thing, and some of the fun is simply being a bit fanatical about something, even when it isn’t going particularly well.
by Gino Parilli on Oct 31, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of the above. I'm in the omitted "realist" category
I’ve been a loyal fan for 50 years as has my brother. He said about 5 years ago that the Bills will not escape mediocrity until the team has a new owner. I agree. The NFL is the most management intensive of all professional sports. It starts with smart ownership and you all know the rest.
We realists aren’t bandwagon types. We have not put Byrd in the H of F yet. We recognize that the current management can not evaluate talent and the current coaches can’t improve a player. We are in awe of Bill Polian. We admire the Patriots. We know Bill Parcells knows football players and that Phillips can’t win anything. We don’t ignore those nasty little things called facts.
by jpheff on Oct 31, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, unfortunately as fans we can’t expect much until Wilson either sells (not going to happen) or passes. It’s a shame that it comes down to that reality.
But you are absolutely right, it starts with an owner that is willing to trust his management, he needs to start by finding the right GM and letting him do his thing. It might not be pretty in the first few years but results should follow. I 100% agree with you that it starts at the top.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to ownership....
…..I pray for Ralph’s continued good health. He may not be the best when it comes to team stewardship, but I am pessimistic about the Bills continued tenure in Buffalo once the inevitable happens. In my view, Wilson’s Bills are better than no Buffalo Bills at all.
by Gino Parilli on Oct 31, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You see I am so fed up with being frustrated by the same thing year in and year out, nothing changes. Nobody can say that we are going to loose the team so that to me is not a good excuse. Besides if we are destined to lose the team after his passing, then it’s not an extra year or two that will make any difference. Actually I am anxious for the dark cloud to be lifted from over our heads.
The fans have stepped up in recent years and we sell out each game, much better than Jacksonville and now Tampa bay. I think the Bills stay in Buffalo.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody can say that we are going to lose the team
Sure, but nobody can say that we aren’t going to lose the team either. When Ralph dies, the team is going to be sold and if the buyer would rather own a team in LA than in Buffalo, then this team is gone and probably never coming back. Things like fan support mean almost nothing in a city that lacks the big business to sell expensive luxury boxes and lacks the taxpayer money to build an owner a new stadium. A brand new stadium in one of the biggest markets in the country is going to be much more appealing to a perspective owner than a bunch of fans who make 40K per year, but love their team. Buffalo has a super low cost of living and ridiculous state taxes, a government in serious financial trouble, a decreasing population, an old stadium, a spread out fan base, very few major businesses and nothing that trumps a brand new, state of the art stadium in another city.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 31, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize all that but some teams also lack fan support and general seat sales (see Jaguars).
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 7:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But that doesn’t make Buffalo more or less likely to move. This isn’t a contest where the team in the worst situation moves and the other 31 teams stay put. The only thing that really matters for the relocation of a team is what the owner of that team wants to do. We don’t know who the owner is going to be in 5-10 years and we don’t know what that guy wants to do. It’s not unlikely that the Bills are moved.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 1, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree
The only thing that really matters for the relocation of a team is what the owner of that team wants to do.
The NFL must approve any relocation and the strong fan base & support would go a long way towards helping us keep the team in Buffalo.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt the other owners would block a move. Unless WNY could come up with a brand new stadium, I don’t see how a new owner wouldn’t be able to easily make a case that a different market would be a more profitable place for the Bills.
What makes the Bills more likely to stay than to leave is that there will probably (more like hopefully) be multiple competitive bids and one of those bids could be from somebody who wants to keep the team here. If that is the case than Goodell and Ralph’s kids will accept and approve that bid.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 1, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again I disagree
Teams like the Jags who can’t even fill their stadium, don’t have enough fans to buy jerseys and other lucrative NFL gear. There are not 3-4 cities to relocate to… Really other than LA there are no serious contenders. Why let Buffalo go and then still have a major problem in Jax?
Another very important factor for the NFL is breaking up one of the strongest & oldest divisions, the AFC East is the equivalent of the NFC East, huge. There is no way that they would upset those rivalries unless they really had to. The AFC south is definitely one of the weakest divisions, not because of the teams within it but because of the lack of history and rivalry. I feel very confident that Buffalo will not loose it’s team other than maybe moving to the Niagara region.
Ralph’s family should take the strongest bid and nobody should make them feel bad about it. This is a business and it’s not a patriotic thing, it’s simply business. The NFL will also act in the best interest of their business and not disrupt the AFC East. Look for the NFL to impose that the team remains in the AFC East and strongly suggest that it remains in the Buffalo/Niagara region.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 2, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rivalries
Do you really think a Buffalo and anyone rivalry has any meaning anywhere else?
The Pats/Jets, Pats/Dolphins and even Jets/Dolphins have more national appeal than any of the Bills games….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 2, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are Bills fans everywhere. Great Rivalries are great for business, the NFL is very aware of that.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 2, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Bills fans
I’m talking about your average NFL fan. Do the Bills have any appeal to those people? Does a consistent loser really drum up any interest around the nation?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 2, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bills/Dolphins rivalry is very important to the South Florida market
The Bills/Jets rivalry to the NY city market
The Bills/Patriots is also an important rivalry
In all three cases, our foes sell out those games before any other. The AFC East inter division games are very important for the bottom line revenues of each team. Also, the glory days of our Bills when we went to 4 consecutive SBs, we created a following throughout the league but even more within the AFC East. You can’t say that about Jacksonville or Houston both expansion teams with little history to them.
Don’t under estimate the monetary importance of the Bills history, moving the team to LA would be a huge mistake. Given that other options exist, surely the NFL will favor a Jax move first.
It’s like in the NHL, they blocked the sale/move to Hamilton to protect the Sabres. It amazes me that people think that just because the new owner would want to move the team to LA that it would be an automatic, I think it would be far from it. The NFL is much better managed than the NHL and they even were smart enough to intervene. And believe me, the Hamilton market would easily support a team and the NHL owners would make lots of $$ but there is more to it than just that.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 2, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The NHL blocked the move to Hamilton because it would be another team entering Buffalo’s and Toronto’s market and the Sabres would have become considerably less financially viable.
I don’t see how our division rivals make a penny more against the Bills and how those communities make anything other than a marginal amount more than a different week. Those teams sell out every game anyways. How do the Patroits make more money against the Bills? Do people in NE care about us at all? How does a market in NY city fluctuate from opponenent to opponent? Miami might matter some, but not enough to turn down an owner who wants to move.
Given that other options exist, surely the NFL will favor a Jax move first.
That isn’t how it works. Currently there are no other options. The NFL doesn’t decide whether to move a team. They simply approve or reject an owner’s decision to move. When an owner decides to move, he makes his case to the league and it becomes something of a legal debate about what is best for his franchise and what is best for the league as a whole. The league cannot reject a team’s bid to move because Goodell thinks a different team might be a better fit when that other team isn’t even trying to move. The decision from the league will be simple. Will the owner make more money and put a better product on the field in another city (yes) and will it hurt the league in some way for that team to move (not enough for 1/4 of the owners to vote no). Houston got 3 more votes than it needed and one of the no votes was Buffalo. Cleveland didn’t have any problems moving either. Those were two great fanbases with good rivalries who moved because they couldn’t get a stadium and could make more money somewhere else.
Oakland will claim that LA is their market. But in 2003 there was a vote by the league to look into LA as a market and it passed 30-1-1 with Oakland voting no and Indy abstaining.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 2, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You made my point
Those games between the Bills and an AFC East opponent only mean anything in Buffalo and that city. Nobody else cares about those rivalries. The rest of the nation sees the game as a win for the Bills opponent and nothing more. The Bills mean nothing to 99% of NFL fans (maybe hyperbole, but probably true).
Those games sell out because they are HOME GAMES FOR THE PATS, JETS, AND DOLPHINS! It has nothing to do with the Bills. They just happen to be the opponent. Do you think the Bills/Bucs game sold out because everyone in Buffalo wanted to see the Bucs play? Same thing when teams play the Bills.
Honestly, nobody really cares what the Bills did almost 20 years ago. It’s all about what have you done for me lately….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 2, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then we’re doomed
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 3, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why let Buffalo go and then still have a major problem in Jax?
That isn’t the way it works. Relocation isn’t a collective decision made by the NFL. Like I said, this isn’t a who is least deserving of their team contest. None of that matters. An owner decides to move and Goodell and the other owners approve or reject it. I’ll say it again, all that matters is what the new owner wants to do. If he wants to move the team and can make a valid argument that he will make more money in a different city, then the team is gone. The only thing that matters to the NFL owners and league decision makers is the qualtiy of the product and the money they make from it. If an owner says he’s more competitive in a bigger TV market, then it’s an easy sell to the NFL.
There are not 3-4 cities to relocate to…
The Bills become infinitely (not literally) more likely to stay if a different team moves to LA before Ralph moves on and his kids sell the team. But how many teams are actually going to move in the next 5-10 years? We should all hope that Jacksonville relocates ASAFP.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 2, 2009 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bills become infinitely (not literally) more likely to stay
I agree.
all that matters is what the new owner wants to do
I don’t agree. Rivalries means business in so many ways and detroying a good rivalrie has a domino effect on other teams. A new Owner would have a hard time to prove that he can make more money moving the team elsewhere. Another important flaw in your argument is that the luxury boxes are not shared revenue in the NFL, only regular seating so other teams would not care about luxury seating. Given that the Bills sell out and Jax doesn’t – that is a subject that directly effects other owners.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 2, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
The NFL must approve any relocation and the strong fan base & support would go a long way towards helping us keep the team in Buffalo.
The other owners don’t give a crap about the fans in Buffalo. They care about lining their pockets. I’m sure most of them would rather have another big city team for revenue sharing purposes….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 2, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t the NHL where the league owns the franchise and the owner is a part of the “league”. Owner wants money. Ownet moves team. Baltimore had a great fan base but they got moved to Indy.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 2, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And on Wilson
In some ways he deserves all the blame, but in other ways there aren’t any reasons to think the Bills can’t win with him. Understand that he’s only making the major decisions (ie: front office and coaches). Ralph didn’t have a problem winning when he had Polian and Butler, but has had a really tough time with Donahoe (who wasn’t a bad hire) and the Levy induced inner circle. How have things been the same every year due to Ralph? It’s Ralph’s fault for hiring Levy and Jauron, but it’s not like he’s the one drafting players and signing free agents. Why isn’t he capable of hiring a good GM and then winning because that GM does a good job?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 31, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be honnest
I am not talking about 8-20 years ago, I am talking about the past 2-5years and at 91 I don’t expect a lot more from him. My grandparents are still alive and they are 89 and 91 and both of them are incredible people but there’s no way that they could run a company anymore. At that age everything slows even they reasoning ability. The odds are he might have a few more years left maybe 0-4. I am of the opinion that at his age he won’t do anything too drastic and the relationship he has with Brandon is seems so strong that I doubt he does anything to jeopordize it.
So IMO that leaves us with the very high risk of 0-4 more years of the crappy inner circle.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand how hiring a GM changes anything for Russ Brandon. He’s already pretty far down the list of people involved in football decisions. In fact, if a GM is hired by Ralph and Bradon together, Brandon could end up with more authority than he already has.
I don’t think hiring a GM is drastic. All it’s really doing is taking the decision making from Jauron, taking a small amount of football authority from other positions (Modrak’s and Guy’s) and giving them to a GM. Teams don’t actually have one guy who controls everything. GMs aren’t the be all, end all. They are simply at the top of the power structure. It’s still a team effort. Taking the final say from the head coach and giving it to somebody from outside the organization isn’t all that crazy. And the move from Donahoe to an inner circle was pretty drastic and that just happened four years ago.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 1, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Niagara Bills
New owner must move the stadium to where the population is, which is in the Niagara Falls area (“Toronto”). Why the current stadium is located south of the City is only because Ralph went with “cheap.” Typical.
The Bills will never get beyond mediocrity until the team has a new owner. This is the ultimate truth to the realist.
by jpheff on Oct 31, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Spoken like a true GM
is highly opinionated and normally views things at the macro level, choosing to view the season as a whole and look 2-3 years down the road
BTW, I agree that we need new ownership. I guess Niagara is a good place to relocate the Bills. Given I drive down from Montreal it wouldn’t make much difference to me. I just don’t want them in Toronto.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Oct 31, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A GM doesn’t choose the location for the stadium. You need an owner category. Ha!
by jpheff on Nov 1, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fit under the wanna-be GM category. I’m not the most critical of guys on draft picks and FA moves, but I take those kinds of decisions far too seriously.
The GM in training is highly opinionated and normally views things at the macro level, choosing to view the season as a whole and look 2-3 years down the road. This type of fan is normally more concerned with the ability to go all the way than the winning of any individual game, building a team that could win the superbowl is more important than winning from week to week.
Yeah, that is definitely me. I do think I know best, but I’m not too critical of individual mistakes because they are going to happen and I know how hard it is to make the perfect move.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Oct 31, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.... Also we have ideas on how to fix the team that follows
a certain philosophy and specific direction we think the team should go to get better that stays pretty consistent. By preparing mock drafts over the last few years, it has really made my philosophies very self-evident. The names change, but your draft preferences don’t. Jauron drafts DBs, Millen drafted WRs, Gruden drafted QBs. I like fat guys and skinny women :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Oct 31, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally me as well
The GM in training is highly opinionated and normally views things at the macro level, choosing to view the season as a whole and look 2-3 years down the road. This type of fan is normally more concerned with the ability to go all the way than the winning of any individual game, building a team that could win the superbowl is more important than winning from week to week.
Yeah, that is definitely me. I do think I know best, but I’m not too critical of individual mistakes because they are going to happen and I know how hard it is to make the perfect move.
Me to a T.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 1, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You drive down from Montreal that is so cool.
That point alone would put you in a GM category. Keysh I love your posts especially this one. I don’t always agree obviously and sometimes come out hard. I have so many memories regarding this team I forgot more than most have. My first was listening to the bills on the radio when the Juice played, watching Magic Johnson patrol the sidelines when the raiders were in town. Hanging a sign sloiciting Bill Polian for President of the country. Sherman White sacking Terry Bradshaw during that strike season. I could go on and on. I’ve been to at least a hundred games. Spent more money on beer at the games than tickets and parking. This organization is like family to me. I just celebrated my 50th birthday and the theme was all Bills. I am a sick but very proud bills fan and this site is my new cousin.
I am an optimist. Many faults in the league, but I believe in the system. Others have manipulated it. Drugs, Steroid use, cheating, doing what ever it took to get a win. I don’t put any of that on our organization. We represent New York for what it is. A blue collar, hard working, middle class organization that will earn everything we get. The only change I would like to see is Brandon. Yep, Jauron stays, I believe in the guy. The players respect him and I do to.
One last memory, for fifteen years I sat at the Ralph religously. Through thick and thin. Times you could go to a game and really sit anywhere you wanted because there were less than 30M people there. Times when you had to have someone get out of your seat. I sat in the top row and as close as row seven on the fifty, they were cool. The only negative was listening to this guy Rick every single game. Rick sat in our section about five rows up and over a bit. Every bad play this guy would rip the players, the team, the owner the management. Heck he even cussed his mother one time. Every good play you couldn’t hear him because the crowd went balistic. This guy was soooo annoying, you wanted to tell him to shut the XXXX up. He had a ball, thought he was the entertainment. It reminds me of this site sometimes when we get into the bashing of players, coaches, benching this guy, trading that guy. We don’t have a clue what is going on with running an NFL team but we act like we know more. Sometimes this site sounds like Rick. Benching Ellison, trading T.O. and firing Jauron wouldn’t work in our circles of life. Hanging billboards, vandalizing property, grand larceny of a players home is what things have turned into. We should all be elated to have a team in Western New York and support them by thoughts of improvment Vs ending the season each year after week five. Last year starting the season 5-1 was great, but when you start 5-1 and haven’t played a division opponent common sense should tell you to relax there are alot of games left. So many things can happen in a game as well as a season. I will always be optimistic.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
by VanScottM on Nov 1, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tks Van
I appreciate it.
You are very lucky to be an eternal optimist because it’s not in my DNA and you at least are probably happy regardless what happens. In my case, I rarely get rattled over individual player performances during games, sure I’m not happy when they make errors but I can get over it. What really bugs me is when the team commits the same errors over and over again over a span of multiple games, then I turn to the coaching & management. As an optimist, I certainly understand why you appreciate Jauron. Jauron has good HC qualities that are rare in today’s NFL but unfortunately he is also lacking some crucial ones as well. I am not an optimist and I find it increasingly difficult to support a team that is destined to go nowhere. It’s more more that respect and leadership it’s also about know-how, ingenuity and creativity and to a certain extent aggressiveness – all lacking from our current coaching & front office personnel.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 7:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, there’s only two other eternal pessimists here?
I’m shocked!
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 1, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
me too
I figured there were way more. I think there are a few closet pessimists among us.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Today
I am optimistic that the worst will happen.
by jpheff on Nov 1, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Funny
After reading the article my first though twa you missed a category and one i think i belong to, realist. The first post was by Killascript saying the same thing. 5 Years ago i would have considered myself an eternal optimist but eternity is a LONG time. A decade of bad football has been long enough to change me into a realist.
by bflobob8 on Nov 1, 2009 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
everyone keeps saying they are realists
but being an optimist doesnt make you unrealistic. You can know your team is mediocre, your QB is average, your coach doesnt have a history of winning and still hope and have faith that your team will be good. Being an optimist doesn’t mean you ignore the facts. It just means you accept and know the truth but hope against hope nonetheless.
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
by poz on Nov 1, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well said
You know, had I put down realist – everyone would have chosen it and this would be a very bad post. Instead, I am trying to find out what makes each rumbler tick
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 1, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poz,
I think you just described being hopeful. I am also hopeful but optimistic is another story. I’m hopeful that they will find a real GM and starting caliber QB but certainly not optimistic this will happen in the near future. Wasn’t it Einstein who said that repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results was the definition of insanity? The Bills are like ugly children to us, if you keep telling yourself they are attractive eventually you really believe it. Nobody will admit or believe their kids are ugly but the rest of us know the truth.
by bflobob8 on Nov 1, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
it Einstein who said that repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results was the definition of insanity? The Bills are like ugly children to us, if you keep telling yourself they are attractive eventually you really believe it.
HAHAHHAAH!!! I may have found my new sig!!
Your right, maybe being a Bills fan has driven us all insane. Maybe Im a sucker, but no matter how bad this team is, all I can think about is how we can pull off the playoffs. Great stuff, your right, its been ten years so maybe we do keep telling ourselves lies and starting to believe them. Ha!
The no huddle is gone, please sign tackles Runyan, Jones or Walker
by poz on Nov 1, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have drank the kool-aid
"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)
by NolaBillsFan on Nov 1, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A part of me is an eternal optimist, because obviously the ultimate fantasy is the situation where the Bills win the superbowl. But because of what they have done to the fanbase I think there is an element of masochism in continuing to root for them. Lets face it for the last several years there is little return for your emotional investment in the team.
Because of this, I’ve recently taken sort of an absurdist’s view towards the team, because I find the team itself and its antics to be absurd and nonsensical. They win when they should lose, and lose when they should win, unlike any other team that may occasionally do one or the other. The Bills offense is like firing a shotgun in the air and hoping you’ll hit a bird flying overhead. When you hear soft thud on the ground you find yourself wondering how it happened.
It’s to the point where your shocked when the team scores a touchdown offensively. When you compare what we have now to the K-Gun, one of the most prolific offenses to ever set foot onto the field, you can either laugh or cry. I choose to laugh in the same way that I imagine many of the St. Louis Rams fans laugh at their team.
This space held in honor of Robert Royal known to his friends as "Sweet Cream Style Corn" March 11 2006- February 26, 2009
by pasaluki on Nov 1, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey Kool-Aid!
Oh Yeah!
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 2, 2009 12:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Definately GM in training
actually probably not….
there’s not an OC in training option, or entry level OC quality control coordinator which is probably where I would fit. I can definately see the problems which are not making our offense quality.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 2, 2009 2:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kool-Aid is delicious, refreshing and good for the brain and pain. I think that things could get worse and that will bring about massive change this off season. That’s not a bad thing. I hope the new coaching staff/GM(please!) hold on to the players that really have serious potential when a team is built.
I never want them to lose though, even if it means a high draft pick.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Nov 2, 2009 8:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

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