$12 million for two Receivers?

by BuffaloWhiner on Oct 5, 2009 9:27 AM EDT Comment 10 comments

I am a firm believer in the old adage, you win in the trenches, and the last ten years of Bills futility further proves my point. The Bills should have spent some money on a stand-out tackle, and I don't mean Jason Peters, rather than go out and sign Terrell Owens. Look at the Giants as proof, they have a stud offensive line, and their receivers are mostly rookies or 2nd year players, like Smith, Manningham, and Hakeem Nicks.

If your quarterback has no time to pass, if their are no holes for your running backs, it doesn't matter how many skill players you have. I am not sure now if Trent Edwards is our future QB, but don't know if it is the line, the offensive coordinator, or both.

What I do see in looking at other teams around the NFL, is that you don't and never will win until you get a solid offensive line and an aggressive defense, that is not full of 225 pound linebackers.

Drafting Wood and Levitre was a good step forward, but this team now needs to find two bookend tackles. Obviously, losing Butler has hurt.

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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You could make this argument both ways though. Investing tons of cash into skill players sure has worked for Arizona and Houston’s offenses. And while the Giants have some young WRs, it’s not like it hasn’t been a big investment finding them. They’ve got a first rounder, a pair of second rounders and a guy drafted in the third and fourth rounds on the roster. I know they aren’t big FA names, but if Buffalo gets hammered for drafting CBs, then why are we applauding the Giants for finding some decent WRs by drafting one early every single season?

And you said Buffalo should have spent some money on a stand out tackle, but who? Who was out there, especially for only 6 mil? Your looking at Old man Orlando Pace (which wouldn’t have been a bad move) or Tra Thomas (who couldn’t beat out either rookie for a starting gig) or Khalif Barnes (who stinks).

And would the Giants OL really be dominating people if both of their OTs were out? RT Kareem McKenzie missed the first three games and NY really struggled to run the ball when he was out. Jacobs was only averaging 3.4 yards per carry with his best performance, 92 yards on 26 carries, coming against Tampa, who we ran all over.

And the Giants went out in FA and signed a 220-225 pound LB. They gave quite a bit of money to Michael Boley. Keith Ellison isn’t a bad starter because he’s small.

The Bills problem isn’t that they failed to address this position or that position isn’t good enough. Their early round draft picks, regardless of position, just havn’t been good enough. When they do open the wallet on FAs, regardless of position, they’re either average players or Buffalo can’t find ways to use them to their advantage. And there is that little problem of having a very mediocre QB.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Oct 5, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

that the Giants gave Plaxico a big deal, which he’d still be earning if he wasn’t an idiot. He was a significant investment.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Arizona and Houston are bad examples.

Todd Haley who served under Parcells knew how to change the playcalling up enough to work by giving his o-line help with smart playcalling, through calculated and well timed use use of draws, screens, and play action. They don’t look so hot without him calling the plays.

Kubiak is an offensive genius who got the best of Bellichick more times than not, even with Jake Plummer as his quarterback when he was in Denver.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 8, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fully agree. It’s a big man’s game and right now our big men are getting pushed around. Not to mention we draft 42 defensive backs instead of linemen. And it doesn’t help that your organization gets rid of it’s two starting tackles and doesn’t draft or sign a single replacement.

I’ll go to my grave saying that Jarius Byrd was a terrible draft pick, and the eternal optimists on this site love to defend him eventhough we didn’t need a backup safety at the time (“but he’s a ballhawk!!!”). We sure could use a guy like Sebastian Vollmer couldn’t we?

Not really sure about that Arizona/Houston comment…. Houston hasn’t ever made the playoffs and has always struggled and blamed a poor O line. Arizona used a top 5 pick on Levi Brown and caught lighting in a bottle to make the super bowl. I wouldn’t exactly call them a successful franchise.

by Harris on Oct 5, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wasn’t Bell a replacement that was already on our roster? Same with Butler? And we drafted a replacement for Butler in Wood.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn’t Bell a replacement that was already on our roster? Same with Butler? And we drafted a replacement for Butler in Wood.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Houston and Arizona have great offenses despite investing more resources in the weapons than the OL. The Colts have largely neglected their OL and are regularly adding skill players. The Steelers resigned a guard to a big contract and franchised a mediocre LT and the rest of the OL is no names and they have a much bigger investment in skill players than the OL. San Diego has put some effort into their OL, but they are a weapons driven offense.

My point was that there isn’t some method to building an offense that is much better than others. If it was as simple as building a great OL, then why are so few teams putting that kind of emphasis on it? Teams aren’t any more interested in the OL than they are skill players or QBs.

I actually think the best way to build an offense is to find a special player, regardless of position and build around him. The obvious is to get a great QB because you can build around him in a number of ways. But other than a QB, I think a rebuilding team needs to grab the best player they can and work from there. If it’s a WR, then make sure you find another receiver or TE and a QB who compliment his skill set. If he’s a big possesion guy, then make sure the QB is super accurate and if he’s a speedster, find a QB who can throw a good deep ball. If it’s an RB, build that OL. And if it’s an offensive lineman, find another offensive lineman to pair him with. People talk about the Giants OL as if it’s 5 pro bowlers. Really, it’s a solid LT in David Diehl who was a 5th round pick and had some major injury issues early in his career, a slightly above average starter at LG (Seubert) and at center (O’Hara) and a pair of dominant players on the right side. The Giants run game is centered around one of the best guards in football, RG Chris Snee who was an early 2nd round pick and now has a pretty huge contract. And RT Kareem McKenzie who was another 2nd rounder who now has a big contract. McKenzie is maybe the best run blocking RT in the league.

by kaisertown on Oct 7, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

QBs make lousy OCs

Because they don’t understand the inter workings of the lines.

Most QBs when they actually played defense in high school were DBs, so they understand nothing about the line play.

Name me one great OC who was a quarterback.

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 6, 2009 4:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tom Moore, of course he knows what he’s doing with offensive lineman too. That Norv Turner guy has a pretty good reputation from his days as offensive coordinator of the Cowboys. Jim Zorn, Sean Payton, Jason Garrett and Gary Kubiak were all QBs too. QBs and QB coaches do seem to bust more as offensive coordinators than offensive line and tight end guys though. Probably because they get jobs easier than offensive line guys who have to work longer and harder to earn those coordinator roles.

by kaisertown on Oct 6, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s right Kubiak was a QB, i need to look at who he served under. I didn’t know Sean Payton was a Qb, I figured his smarts came from Parcells, The Saints current offense has the fundamentals like a Parcells one, but will take more chances like a Bellichick one, though not as extreme as Bellichick has gotten since he got Moss and Welker.

I think Jason Garrett is a lousy OC, he is still learning, he like our OCs falls in love with the Shotgun on short yardage, and it is running Romo into the ground just like Trent with our OCs. Romo looked so much better when Parcells was with Dallas.

Norv had a good run with Dallas, I still think Shottenheimer was a hair better head coach than Norv. I kinda see Norv, Schottenheimer, and Wade as kinda above average HCs, but not top tier, they will win games and even divisions, just not superbowls. I would rank em

1. Schottenheimer
2. Turner
3. Philips

There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.

by The Buffalo Kid on Oct 8, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs