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Bills' Edwards entering uncharted pressure territory

Playing quarterback in the NFL is about as high-pressure as jobs in sports come.  Trent Edwards has now been the starter at that position for the Buffalo Bills in 27 regular season games.  He's 13-14 as a starter in those games, but the only ones that matter right now have been his last four - and in those starts, the Bills are 1-3 and have regressed to the point where the firing of the head coach is now more eventuality than possibility.

Quarterbacks are scrutinized closely for good reason: generally, NFL teams go as their quarterbacks go.  Finding consistent winners with average to below-average quarterbacks is difficult to do.  The way these Bills are built, good play is imperative from Edwards if the Bills want to win games consistently.  They haven't gotten it from the third-year pro.  Now, Edwards is departing the realm of what we might call "usual pressure" and entering a territory where he's not just playing to win games.  He's playing to save his coach's job, salvage a promising season, keep an enigmatic receiver from blowing up, and to ensure his own future in the league.

Star-divide

A tale of two two-game stretches
To say that Edwards has been a completely different quarterback in the last two games - both blowout losses - is an understatement.  In Buffalo's first two games this season, Edwards completed 64.3 percent of his throws at 7.9 yards per attempt, with four touchdowns, one pick, and a QB rating of 104.9.  The Bills were 1-1 in those games, and should have been 2-0.

In the last two games, Edwards' numbers have slipped drastically.  In the losses to New Orleans and Miami, Edwards completed 55.7 percent of his throws at a meager 5.7 yards per attempt, with one touchdown, four gruesome interceptions, and a QB rating of 50.4.  Buffalo was outscored 65-17 in those two defeats.

Part of Edwards' inexplicably massive regression can be attributed to an offensive line in flux.  Say what you want about Buffalo's young line, but they were playing well in the New England and Tampa games.  Then Brad Butler went to IR, Demetrius Bell hurt his groin, and voila - Edwards has been sacked a whopping 10 times in the last two weeks.  But let's not pretend that the O-Line is the single point of blame in this fiasco, because they're not.  The coaching staff can't be the sole point of blame, either.  Edwards has been terrible, and it's nowhere near surprising that the team on the whole has been terrible right alongside him - this team goes as Edwards goes, folks.

Examining the task ahead of Edwards
Let's just take a look at the to-do list on Edwards' fridge as the Bills enter the second quarter of a season that appears to be quickly slipping away from them:

- Play better.  Easier said than done when confidence gained is so quickly and emphatically lost.

- Stay healthy.  Easier said than done when your offensive line is in a complete state of flux and Kirk Chambers looks more like a matador than an NFL offensive lineman.

- Win football games.  Easier said than done when the franchise that employs you leads Earth in creatively fumbling away opportunities to win football games.

- Get a contract extension.  Easier said than done when your fate is tied directly to your head coach's.

- Prove you're that ever-elusive "franchise quarterback."  See above.

- Save your coach's job.  Easier said than done when your coach may or may not already be in lame duck territory.

- Make believers out of the fan base.  Easier said than done considering what Bills fans have been through over the past decade.

You have to feel for Edwards, no matter your opinion on his quarterbacking abilities.  No quarterback with less than two full seasons' worth of starting experience should be in the situation that Edwards now finds himself in.  One might argue that he's been set up to fail, and if that argument is made, one might not hear many counter-arguments.  It's extremely unfortunate.  Buffalo's decision-makers, coaching staff, and Edwards himself need a miraculous turnaround, but that won't happen unless Trent plays better.

The clock is ticking.  Jauron, Edwards' teammates, and the current regime at One Bills Drive will only go as far as Edwards can take them.  Good luck, kid - you're going to need it.

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Edwards has been set up to fail...........

much like Losman was set up to fail as well.

J O K E

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Expanding on this thought for one second....

I know Im a big Trent homer……blah blah blah…..but it wouldnt matter if Johnny freaking U was reincarnated and QB’ing this club…….it wouldnt work right now.

Nothing about this team works right now.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

losman set up to fail? i don’t think so. losman was legitimately terribad.

edwards set up to fail? that one i might buy.

by quantumuprising on Oct 5, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Coaching staff tried to turn JP into something he wasnt.........

He wasnt a drop back pro-style offense QB………..yet thats what they tried to do with him.

Thats how he was set up to fail.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus it's kinda hard to play QB

when you’re running for your life every play. The OL was even worse when JP was there. I know this isn’t the popular thing to say but I always felt if he was on a team better suited for him, Losman would have done a whole lot better than he did in Buffalo.

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

you could say the same thing about

a ton of other QBs like David Carr and Kyle Boller and those two still had suitors to be backups. The fact that no one wanted JP should be telling of his ability to be an NFL QB. I can’t believe we are talking about JP freaking Losman again……

We got your back Leodis!

by poz on Oct 5, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to start a JP bashing thread but...

If it was the system you would think that someone would be him up to be the 2nd or even 3rd string QB and not in the UFL right now…

by SebastianPruiti on Oct 5, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

problem with this is that he never got a chance in any other system......

so we’ll never know.

But I understand your point.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying Trent has been set up to fail, but I certainly don’t think he’s been given the best chance to succeed. When he’s had time to throw, he hasn’t connected consistently, or taken the safe throw instead. He seems to have a real confidence issue and I don’t think it’s all his fault, but it’s a killer for a QB.

I really think we’re developing our line at the expense of our QB.

by Mark Parisi on Oct 5, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he has had few targets these last two weeks

I’m beginning to have some doubts about Trent myself, but it is also true that he has had very few targets to throw to over the last two games. The Bills have been using a lot of two TE sets and keeping both of them in to help out the OT’s in pass protection. That is why there were no passes to TE’s against Miami, period. Most of the time the Bills had two WR’s and a RB who went out into the flat to serve as an outlet. It was no problem for the Dolphins to cover them to the point where much of the time Trent would have been foolish to try to throw to them.

If your pass protection is atrocious and you only have three possible receivers who are completely shut down, what should the QB do?

by Macktruck on Oct 5, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a great question

I wish I knew the answer. I guess I’d say throw it up to your receivers and hope they come down with it. That’s why they’re getting paid the big bucks, right?

by Mark Parisi on Oct 6, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

But when he has tried to do that it has ended up in a pick. You can hope the WR’s come down with it, but if they are double-covered and the defenders have good position on them there’s not that much they can do. Trent has missed them at times when they were in single coverage, but then again he has had little chance to get into a rhythm (as all QB’s need to do). If his protection becomes more consistent he will likely become more consistent.

by Macktruck on Oct 6, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please

The NFL is sink or swim and Trent is sinking faster that a mob hit that was fitted for cement shoes.

Saying Trent was set up to fail is ridiculous. Sure, we haven’t had the greatest receiving talent, OL or competent coaching, but at some point doesn’t Trent have to rise up on his own? For once, wouldn’t it be nice if he made the players/team around him better? He has regressed, or at the very least shown little to no improvement. He hasn’t shown the chops to lead this team and definitely hasn’t shown any consistency or ability to put points on the board. He plays tentative and timid and I find it hard to it’s because he was set up to fail….

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you fail to develop a competent QB in the entire decade.......or even half a decade...

obviously there is something lacking in the Front Office/Staff………….sure some of it is on the individual player………

Lets say I get hired on to be a writer here for Buffalo Rumblings……..and Brian asks me to write an article about Offensive Line calls……..knowing full well that my specialty is defensive back footwork……….

The article bombs horribly and everyone who comments on it says Im the worst writer in the world…….saying I dont know what Im talking about, etc……..

Sure it’s partially my fault………….but shouldnt Brian take a good portion of the blame as well?

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Piggybacking on Norcal working for Brian analogy...

I also have a hard time believing that Dick Jauron is displeased when Trent Edwards “checksdown” as often as he does.

Say Norcal is consistently turning his articles in late. If Brian does not like this, he would do something about it. He’s the boss. If an employee consistently defies his boss, a good boss would not put up with it.

In fact, he would say something like, “Look, we need to throw down the field more. Take more risks. In fact, if you do this and it doesn’t work, I will take the blame for it. But either way, it needs to be done, or you will not play. I am the boss and this is what I need.”

by StroudFanClub on Oct 5, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes well said.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed as well, mostly because I’m painted as a good boss in this analogy. :)

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

you did not mean Jauron did you. he would paraphrase that with if you don’t mind and we can always punt. Dick see it as a interception is as good as a punt, and we all have come to see how he loves to punt

buffalo was my home black rock my neighborhhod

by crazyoldmen on Oct 6, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

but shouldnt Brian take a good portion of the blame as well?

Yeah, why the heck aren’t we blaming Brian for the Bills’ woes as well?? /sarcasm

Ha ha, just thought it had to be said…who else can we blame? ;-)

I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.

by thefourwinds on Oct 5, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buffalo's is starting to supply the league with young qb's

too bad that league’s the usfl, looks like edwards and losman could be competing for the starting job in vegas. is it just me or is edwards taking styling lessons from losman, not shaving and the “just rolled out of bed” haircut?

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joke why? its true that both are not really starters in the nfl, but both are excellent back ups. maybe Buffalo can trade for Vick, Eliminate his pet problems and the guy could drive teams crazy with his running and throwing to Evans and Owens. add our running game and get rid of no huddle. Or we can continue with what we have. Do you think Garcia would play here?

buffalo was my home black rock my neighborhhod

by crazyoldmen on Oct 6, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

ahem

one more time.

J O K E

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

OK, honestly, folks – and I’m talking to everybody here – I get that you’re pissed off and sick to death of watching this franchise suck. But seriously, these types of comments add very little to the general discourse here.

Can’t we please, pretty please, just have a rational, substantial conversation?

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would love it if we had a rational, substantial football team.........

then I would assume the conversation part could follow.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicken or egg?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

my guess is Rooster.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

didn't they come to snuff the roster?

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice alice in chains referance

"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-

by billsoferie on Oct 6, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brian, I was reaffirming that norcals statement was meant as a joke. lighten up.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I’m light. I just don’t want things too light around here. Wasn’t targeting you specifically, so you, too, can relax.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

how was my question of who to draft next year, or who was going to be an available free agent not adding to the conversation? There’s the very real possibility that if they don’t win this year, trent and dick will be gone. What do we do for QB then? Fitz isnt a no. 1….

Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!

by fansince83 on Oct 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure which comment you’re referring to, considering this is your first comment in the thread.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure which comment you’re referring to, considering this is your first comment in the thread.

Now I think I have seen it all…the comedy level here just keeps rising!! :-)

I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.

by thefourwinds on Oct 5, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

thank you Brian!

We got your back Leodis!

by poz on Oct 5, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not set up to fail, more not given as much chance as others

Eli Manning in his 4th year in the NFL, in a week 12 game vs Minnesota (his 47th career start) threw 4 INTERCEPTIONS! They stuck with him, and for the season he threw 20 tds and 23 Ints. They won the Super Bowl that year when Eli played mistake free football.

The way this is going, people don’t want Edwards to get to his 4th year or even 30th career start!

I would def say that if Edwards had switched places with Matt Cassell last year, he’d be the one with the big contract in Kansas City and we’d be discussing how bad Cassell is right now…

by StroudFanClub on Oct 5, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Thats one positive about Trent........

he certainly isnt costing this team much financially………….um………hello Jamarcus Russell.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s more of a symptom of the NFL today, though. Everyone wants to win now, even though history proves over and over that players need time to develop. You don’t need to look any further than the number of first round flameouts at QB. Brady was taken in the 6th as a compensentory pick and then given time to develop in the Pats’ system.

Throwing a QB into the fire almost never works out — there are more Leafs than Mannings — but that’s exactly what the Bills have done since Kelly left, and in Trent’s case, it’s behind the greenest line in the NFL. Not a recipe for success, in my opinion.

by Mark Parisi on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course they stuck with manning

he was the 1st overall pick, you don’t bail on a 1st round pick, let alone a 1st overall pick very quickly. there’s a reason guys that are drafted in the mid to late rounds are expendable. Cap hits/dumping there contract is much easier to do. if edwards was making 8-12 mill a year, he’d have another couple of seasons to go. but he was a 3rd round pick, in other words, expendable.

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

jauron is the bath water, trent is the baby. i’m afraid they won’t be separated at seasons end. canning dick now might be the only way Trent remains past this season.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Trent will be here

unless he continues to implode and gets even worse.

His contract is so cheap that it shouldn’t be a problem keeping him around as the seatwarmer or backup.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe he could take tickets before the game lol

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't say set up to fail...

Great players make great plays regardless of the situation they’re in. While I wouldn’t argue they (JP & Trent) have been set up for success, neither has shown that they can make something out of nothing, or in this year’s case, something out of a lot. You can only blame the line for so much.

It seems to me that Trent may only be a checkdown Brady Quinn style QB. If that is true, we need to find another QB, (Bradford, McCoy, Tebow, etc.) God knows we will probably be up in the draft order for once to pick one of these guys up!

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Wasn’t Peyton 3-13 his first year? I would call him a great player, but I don’t think he made great plays until he was surrounded by other good players. Like his Pro Bowl linemen, for example.

by Mark Parisi on Oct 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes but WAS THAT BECAUSE he didn’t have great players or was it because he was just a rookie. I find it hard to believe that his teammates went from horrible to good in one year. its more likely that his first year was bad because he was simply an inexperienced rookie. he eventually took the leadership role the team needed him to take to make that next step in becoming a great qb.

by flutieflakes007 on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trent's far past his FIRST YEAR...

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drew Brees

I’m not saying we should or should not give Trent more time, but let’s all remember how long it took for a QB like Drew Brees to develop. San Diego gave up on him after three years and drafted Rivers in the first round. The next year Brees completely turned his career around, even though his replacement was already in house. I’m not saying Trent is the next Brees (far from it), I am just saying that more time isn’t always a bad thing.

by BuffaloBrewed on Oct 5, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

For every Drew Brees…there is a JP Losman.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't argue with that.

That is the risk of drafting a QB, esp high in the first round. It is an expensive risk that could either hurt or build a franchise, and the fan base, for years to come. Sadly though, I don’t have a ton of faith in OBD to make there right decision if they were to draft a QB early.

by BuffaloBrewed on Oct 5, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You, me and the majority of the fan base has little faith in the Bills decision makers. And the fact that they haven’t made the playoffs in 10 years is a good reason to remain skeptical.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tha fact is a combination of factors, though. It’s not limited to QB play.

by Mark Parisi on Oct 5, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I absolutely agree.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bills will never draft a QB high in the draft!

They’ll just try to get by with mediocre QB’s that will always produce mediocre records (7-9).

They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills

by Sluss88 on Oct 5, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

This makes less than no sense.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

well the next coach will want his own guy anyways

so you are probably correct.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

For every Drew Brees, there's 30 JP Losmans

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, yes there are!

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hope not

bad enough there’s 1 losman

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

San Diego did not give up on Brees

Brees left them as a FA, so they had to go out somebody fast

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

What? Hadn’t they already drafted Eli Manning then traded him for Phil Rivers at least a season before Brees left?

I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.

by thefourwinds on Oct 5, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brees had made it plain to SD

for more than a year that was leaving. He wanted to leave the year before, but the Chargers prevented that by making him " the franchise player" to keep him. After that, he left. Believe me, the Chargers did not want to lose Brees.

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think that’s how it went down at all. Brees had a good year the year Rivers was drafted/traded for and instead of showing any faith in him, they offered him a one-year, “prove it” deal instead of making a long term commitment. His shoulder injury at the end of that deal was the excuse not to re-sign him and pass the torch to Rivers.

by Mark Parisi on Oct 6, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

For every Manning and Elway...

There is a Favre, Marino, and Flacco. Some guys start slow, but eventually they have to turn it around or they just aren’t going to stick around. I personally like Trent. He has shown flashes of being a great quarterback on the field and has taken an off-field attitude that I respect. He doesn’t throw his teammates under the bus, by all accounts he works hard at his craft and genuinely seems to want to win for this team. That being said, regardless of his situation, regardless of his attitude, eventually he just needs to start winning games.

by Squirmin' Thurman on Oct 5, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Great Comment. I heartily agree, and at many levels, he simply may not be able to overcome all the other crap in this organization right now.

I remain convinced that somehow Drew Rosenhaus negotiated a playing time deal for Roscoe into the contract for TO.

by thefourwinds on Oct 5, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

he could be one of those guys that needs 5/6 years before it clicks….you never know.

but i’m obviously not convinced of it – I haven’t seen him take the shot at certain throws adn take chances at winning games.

I could handle a pick-6 if he was trying to win the game or something, but he won’t even make the throw in the situation – that’s my issue with trent

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Oct 5, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty sure peters was a probowl line man

how’d that turn out?

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the bust mentality that this board has on Brady Quinn

We’re discussing if Edwards is done or not in his 3rd season.

Quinn has played 6 total NFL games, two with a broken thumb on his throwing hand, and a lot of folks on this board have already written him off.

Drawing those conclusions on Quinn after six games would challenge a professional scout, much less amateurs, as we all are.

by Der Jaeger on Oct 5, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

people like to see irish alumni fail

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

people hate on the irish more than anything in the world. they keep saying ‘brady quinn can’t throw downfield.’

he can’t? is that why he holds every passing record at Notre Dame, the most successful college FB school in history?

by quantumuprising on Oct 6, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Winning in College

I have been saying this for a long time, but QBs who win in college are generally (nothing is absolute) translate better to the pro’s. Brady a 6th round pick was a winner. Roth took an avg Miami of OHio team to a 10-1 record, the Manning won numerous SEC games, McNabb won at Syracuse, Ryan at BC…the list goes on and on. But it is rare when QBs are losers at the college level (I mean when they can’t take a team to a bowl game which is not hard to do). JP couldn’t do it, neither could Edwards…I’d like a QB who has won at a high level to come to Buffalo. Bradford, McKoy, Tebow, maybe even that kid from Washington.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions  

i completely agree with this. a QB’s job is to bring out the potential of his offense. not to rely on his offensive players to carry him.

i personally think this year will have a large number of future pro bowl qbs in it. and i think our organization is in the perfect situation to nab one. and assuming our o-line makes improvement (both players getting healthy and rookies gaining experience) we have a fairly qb-friendly offense for a rookie to develop in

by flutieflakes007 on Oct 5, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are just as many High profile college winners who failed to translate to the NFL.

Vince Young, Alex Smith, Cade Mcnown………

It’s a crap shoot my man…..

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

any examples of college QB’s with crappy records translating to a great pro QB?

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could make arguments for guys like

Jay Cutler, Jeff Garcia, maybe Kyle Orton, even Brees……….I mean what do you consider someone who is a loser in college? (just bowl games and such?)

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn’t it Peyton Manning that could never win “the big game” in college?

I’m not saying winning isn’t important – it definitely is – but I’ll take Jay Cutler over Jason White any day of the week.

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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Oct 5, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guys…I am by no means saying winning a championship or a bowl game. I am saying an overall winner. Brees was very good at Purdue. I mean they didn’t win the big 10 but Purdue was good when he was there. Didn’t Cutler take Vandy to their first bowl game in a bunch of years when he was there? I’d have to look at Cutler’s college history at Vandy as I don’t remember much but my guess is he took Vandy to their best finish in the SEC in recent memory. Trent had 1 win his senior year at Stanford. JP (if I’m not mistaken) didn’t even get Tulane to .500.

While Manning didn’t win the “Big Game” he was a winner at Tenn.

There are exeptions but I always side to players who have shown they can win when talking about the QB spot.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cutler went 5-6 at Vandy in 2005 (so he may be one person) even though I don’t believe Cutler will be an NFL winner.

Orton in 2004 with Purdue wen 7-4 and took purdue to a Dec 31st bowl game. And Orton is by no means a prize, even though he has started out very efficiently in Denver.

Garcia: Improved due to the canadian football league and learingin under steve Young.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone can succeed though in the right environment.......

Obviously if you play in the NFL, you have the talent to be successful….otherwise you wouldnt be there.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point wasn’t that all winners in college are pro winners. Only that If your a college losers you probably won’t be a pro winner.

by Berg79 on Oct 5, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

AT STANFORD!!

Coincidence? You bet ya.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess my point was that its flawed logic at best, and fool hardy to justify an already held belief at worst.

If one believes that college “losers” are likely turn to into pro “losers,” one must endorse the inverse, that “college winners” turn into “pro winners,” and this is patently untrue. might wanna re-draft countless qb’s

it is just realy silly, flawed logic, to try to buttress the argument that Edwards will suck. because his teams at Stanford sucked. if Edwards fails in the NFL, its by his own merits, or lack there of. has nothing to do with his college team record.

by LeClaireBill on Oct 6, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

our offensive line is terrible!! also note that the bills havent run for much the last two weeks either..our o-line needs a complete makeover! then you can judge trent accordingly, unfortunatly if hes not the one then buffalo may be in trouble for years to come…

how much longer will the abuse last?

by buffalo bennie28 on Oct 5, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I think our O-line needs to get healthy and probably add some depth but a complete make-over is a bit extreme.

"Next time I get the opportunity I am going to hold on and make a better decision." ~ Leodis McKelvin. (Can't ask for anythitng more than that)

by NolaBillsFan on Oct 5, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I think the O-line, if healthy, has real potential. They’re just incredibly inexperienced and decimated with injuries. We need help in other areas more.

by Applsoss on Oct 5, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't think this is how they wanted to bring bell in

i’m thinking they wanted to give him another year to learn or maybe bring him in at RT first before starting him at LT.

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

TWO Rookies

So just throw away our TWO top picks in the draft and scrap them after 4 games of experience? BRILLIANT!!!!

Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 15
"There's NO place like home when it's the Big Tree Inn"

by Pocono Bob on Oct 5, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually Maybin was our top pick, jury is still out. The next two have performed above expectations.

most of my posts get deleted :(

by dzil on Oct 5, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew that

but worte it wrong! Thanks for the correction in any case. I’m still thinking that our two new O-Line rookies will hold their own sooner rather than latter. Here’s to hoping so anyway…..

Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 15
"There's NO place like home when it's the Big Tree Inn"

by Pocono Bob on Oct 5, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bring in Garcia and a couple of veteran O-lineman

There is no way you could make a complete makeover at this point. It would seem that they would benefit from bringning in a vetran or two to help out the lines struggles. Chambers is lost right now and needs a lot more time to make it.
   As far as Trent goes, why not bring in Garcia and allow Trent to rebuild his confidence? Maybe with a little time and work he can become the QB that Buffalo has looked for for the past 10 years.
 I realize that there are differences between Garcia and T.O. The first thing you would have to do would be to bring T.O. and Garcia into a room and sit them down, but they are grown men and it is not about them.

by popey on Oct 5, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude....

you really think garcia’s going to play with T.O.?

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

9-7...

Its still going to happen. This is another week. We started 0-3 and still made the playoffs in 98’. I’m not saying the playoffs is going to happen but I don’t think the Fat Lady is singing yet on making this a .500+ this season.

Yesterdays game. Its all about how the cards fall.
- I thought they had the onside; how Miami ended up with it I don’t know
- We forced two fumbles.

Lets say the bills grab both of them. Suddenly its a different game. I’m not saying the Bills didn’t play horrible, because the game was ugly on so many notes. Yesterday wasn’t pretty and the Saints game was not much better.

I’m giving it the season and so should the rest of you. AVP has called 4 games in his entire career, we have two tackles the should not be starting and what the hell has happened to all our secondary players?

Did we have SIX sacks yesterday? Seriously. Even when they had no reason to pass the ball given the ~250 rushing yards. Come on…give it the season.

Trent DOES need to grow up in a hurry though.

by Buffalo Mo on Oct 5, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

We lost by 4 TD's to an 0-3 team

That wasn’t because of how the cards fell. We were thoroughly dominated.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes dominated for sure

But there are certainly cards that we didn’t pick up. Those two Forced Fumbles on the sacks. Both of those puts buffalo around mid field.

Williams FF on the 1 yard line right before he got a touchdown (on the next play) as well.

Those turnovers keeps the defense just a smidge fresher…and it boosts moral. We didn’t have one turnover and coughed it up 3 times.

It was an ugly game, we got beat, I’m not denying that. A few big plays is all it takes to turn it around.

by Buffalo Mo on Oct 5, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The optimistic part of me...

says that because the team is so inconsistent and young, we’re going to have games where we look that bad but we are also going to have games where we look that good, too. I mean, just think about how well we played against NE.

If we get beat by the Browns, I’m ready to throw in the towel. But, as negative as I tend to be as a Bills fan, there is still a small part of me that wants to chalk it up to just a crappy day by all.

It may be illogical considering the way we were dominated yesterday, but it’s hope, and it’s all I’ve got right now.

I’m still hanging on to the fact that we’re talented in some spots, we just need people to step up and do their jobs, period.

Time for Trent to stop making excuses (not that he is personally, but more that other people are seeing them for him) and put the team on his back and rip off a couple of good wins in a row.

I know he’s only got 27 starts, but he’s had one legitimately good stretch (the stretch before the Adrian Wilson hit last season) of 4 or 5 games and that’s all he’s shown IMO. It’s do or die for him right now, or else he might end up being just as much of a lame duck as Jauron is right now by season’s end.

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know he’s only got 27 starts, but he’s had one legitimately good stretch (the stretch before the Adrian Wilson hit last season) of 4 or 5 games and that’s all he’s shown IMO

That stretch wasn’t even that good anyhow. He played quite poorly for long stretches of those games, and besides a couple of good 4th Quarters, he was very mediocre. In the end he only had 4 TD’s to 2 INT’s in that stretch, and a 93 rating. Good, but considering the crappy competition, hardly great.

Edwards has been quite terrible for the majority of his starting career. He’ll throw in a decent game here and there, but overall he’s too inconsistent and has way too many clunkers.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with you there, K. You spelled it out very simply. Basically, in a way I couldn’t, haha.

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

9-4 is attainable with what remains of their schedule?!

Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 5, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually it would only be 8-4

but yeah……thats not happening.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

no hope?

Cleveland (0-4) win
NY Jets (3-1) we’ll see
Carolina Panthers (0-3) win
Houston (2-2) we’ll see
Bye week
Tennessee (0-4) win (vince young will be in by this point
Jacksonville (2-2) win
Miami (1-3) win
NY Jets (3-1) we’ll see
Kansas City (0-4) win
New England (3-1) we’ll see
Atlanta (2-1) win
Indianapolis (4-0) win

Its happening!!

by Buffalo Mo on Oct 5, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

you think we’re beating atlanta, indy, the oilers, and miami (after they violated us like an alter boy) . your either A) the worlds biggest optimist, B) on some kind of new drug the rest of the world doesn’t know about, C) Founding member of a Jauron cult or D) Rubber room certifiable

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha so true, and very disturbing.....
(after they violated us like an alter boy) .

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beating Atlanta – They were scoreless in the second half against the pats. Didn’t look good in the first. They Beat Miami and Carolina…whoopie. At this point they are beatbale.
Beating Indy – Indy is good. They will be resting their starters in week 17.
Beating Tennessee – Why is this hard to imagine?
Beating Miami – The Bills played horrrrrrible. Call it optimistic though.

by Buffalo Mo on Oct 5, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta – you say “they beat Miami…whoopie”. We just got DESTROYED by Miami, lol.
Carolina, I’m willing to agree with you is beatable.
Indy I could see the starters resting, but you never know. Jim Sorgi could light us up but I’m willing to maybe go 50/50 with you on that one.
Tennessee was 13-3 last year and even though they are 0-4, I think they’ve still got the talent they just need to pull it together. Not necessarily hard to imagine, but not hard to imagine them beating us either. I don’t think they’ll end up with a top 10 pick.
Miami – see the beginning of my comment.
In the rest of our division games, I’ll be extremely happy with 2-2 but I think 1-3 is optimistic with the way the other three teams are playing.

I see 6-10 in our future to be honest. Maybe 5-11.

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't mind 5-11

the worse the record, the better chance we can start rebuilding

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

um............

no…….not always true…….if thats the case the LIONS would be the greatest team ever right now.

and teams like the Pats and Steelers who pick near the bottom all the time would be like the Lions and Us.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

but your comparing us to the lions and pats

the lions make us look like the pats and the pats make us look like the lions. as long as were middle of the road i don’t think there’s much hope. “it’s easiest to go up after you hit the bottom”….raiders excluded as long as davis runs the team

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you mean to tell me that we havent hit the bottom?

Just because we dont lose as many games as the Lions doesnt mean we are less inept……success is ultimately determined by playoffs wins and championships……

We are the AFC version of the Lions in that regard.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah,

raiders are the lions of the afc

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

they went to a SB just 6 years ago……..

How long has it been since we’ve sniffed the playoffs period?

10 years.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

even al can’t screw up all the time

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

but apparently Ralph can.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

atlanta beat miami, something we couldn’t do, carolina yet to be seen
indy, you have a point, only problem is most of there back up’s would be starting if they played on our roster
oilers=i’m not sure if there as bad as there record there only 1 year removed from a 13W season
Miami-talents similar, miami has better coach and gm, gives them the edge

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

no hope? or smokin dope?

You can’t base your assessment on the teams the Bills should beat on our performance on MNF. Do to injuries, and to a less extent, Jauron’s castration of our players and their lost faith in Jauron as a HC, we are no longer the same team. If we lose to the Browns, I would expect things to come unglued in a hurry. The bye week could be when moves are made. What those moves will be, I have no idea and I doubt Ralf does either. Could Ralf, and by extenstion the whole FO, be the real problem?

Let’s take a quick look at the “poor coaches” the Bills have fired.
Wade Phillips – On the hot seat, but has made it to the playoffs. Better career record than Jauron
Kevin Gilbride – OC for SB winning Giants
Greg Williams – Has done a good job as DC with several teams, was not ready to be a HC when he was with the Bills.
Rusty Jones – Strength and Cond. coach. Bills haven’t been the same since he left.Mike Mularkey – Quit his job as Bills HC (man that should tell you something). Rebuilding his rep as a very good OC
Steve Fairchild – Currently HC at Colorado State and seems to have his program going in the right direction
Turk Schonert – ?? Yes, he is an a$$, but can he succeed as a coach somewhere else?

Did I miss someone?? Who is the constant hear? Ralf. I appreciate all he has done, but maybe it is time for Ralf to sell the team? Given his strange comments implying he was worried about his job, maybe he realizes it. Ralf….if you love something….set it free. Sell the Bills while you have a chance to sell it to someone who will keep it in Buffalo and protect your legacy.

Poor ball security leads to very painful outcomes

by Joe P. on Oct 5, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point. drafting hasn’t been bad, but hasn’t been great. FA’s they let walk blow my mind, then the contracts for the players they keep blow it away even further. Ralph was a great football man, and is a great man. but at 90, maybe it is time he sold the team to kelly/thomas/other business partners and enjoyed what remaining years he has left, while giving us the best gift of all, owners who’d keep the team in buffalo(and not crap it out at the same time)

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edwards was 10-20 as a starter at Stanford BUT

he was a big winner in high school!!! (Trying desperately to look for good signs!)

From Wikipedia…………

Edwards was a highly-rated recruit from Los Gatos High School and was ranked as the #1 pro-style quarterback by USA Today in 2001.1 Rivals rated Edwards as the #2 pro-style quarterback and #20 player overall in its rankings. 2 He was recruited by Michigan, Florida, Notre Dame and Tennessee, but ultimately chose Stanford. In his junior and senior seasons at Los Gatos, he led the team to two undefeated seasons and back-to-back Central Coast Section Division III championships. In his senior year, he completed 154 of 213 passes for 2,535 yards, 29 touchdowns, three interceptions, and was named as a National Football Foundation Hall of Fame Scholar-Athlete for Santa Clara County.

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Weren't all, or nearly all, professional QB's major winners in HS?

I’d be surprised if there were any QB’s who didn’t have much team success in HS…

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah you're not gonna go play college ball at a BCS or Div 1 school unless you light it up in HS.

Walk on QB’s just dont show up.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I just needed to know Trent

was a big winner somewhere! I’m not giving up on him…..but I’m losing faith, brother.

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

hop on

can get you a seat on the Clausen band wagon

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which reminds me

What percentage of Trent’s troubles do you guys think are mental…..and if he’s a “mental case” to a fairly large degree, can he be turned into an NFL winner? and…..how long do you go with him – another two years?

by ccthemovieman on Oct 5, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Ryan Leaf , Joey Harrington, and David Carr are proof that mental cases aren’t something teams are willing to ride out.

Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 5, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still giving the spirit of Bill Walsh a chance

Bill Walsh is considered one of the best ever at evaluating NFL caliber talent. If Bill thought that highly of Trent (and he did) I have to say give this kid at least a passable O-line, 7-8 games of working with AVP and he’ll find multiple ways to score points for us.

by AlwaysaBillinPhilly on Oct 5, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Trent's passes still lack touch and accuracy..

I’ve been a fan of His since He came here but You can’t blame it all on the line either..When the Defense lines up with 6 DB’s it’s tough granted,but still I see TO and Lee get somewhat open and Trent is not throwing the kind of pass that comes close to catchable for these Guys..A couple of accurate touch passes and the Defense has to get honest again..DJ just kind of scowled when He was asked if He thought about putting Fitzy in here..I really think He should have tried that..Try any damn thing when what You have fails as miserably as this team did yesterday..IMO..

by FanFromThe80s on Oct 5, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m not positive on the stats, but it seemed to me yesterday that at least 30-40 percent of his completions yesterday were behind, on, or within two yards of the line of scrimmage.

That slant throw to T.O. told it all, IMO. When you throw higher than T.O. can reach his arms up and jump to get it, that’s saying something. Trent used to be the accurate, smart guy. That was his thing. Now he doesn’t even have the confidence to be that. It’s sad, really.

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question is

Was he really that accurate or did he have a high completion percentage because of all the checkdowns?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, from watching the games

he was pretty accurate with the ball in previous seasons. But now he’s not even accurate on checkdowns or screens. It’s ugly at times. It’s partly the pressure I know, but he’s gotta be better.

I wasn’t going solely on completion percentage but your point is well taken and I agree, completion percentage can be overrated if you don’t look at yards per attempt, and Edwards is pathetic in that department.

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I wasn’t inferring that you were going on completion percentage. I just think that when we look at his stats and see he completed 65% of his passes last year, it just clouds our judgment a bit knowing that he threw so many checkdowns.

You’re right in that he isn’t that accurate this year, but I don’t seem to recall him being super accurate on slants, outs, screens, and even his dumpoffs prior. I remember him throwing a bunch of high dumpoffs to the backs last year that they either had to make a nice catch for or couldn’t pull in. It might be worse this year, but I don’t think it’s all that different.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thurman Thomas...

Anyone hear what Thurman said today? Thurman Thomas, the teams all time leading rusher said that he doesn’t see the team getting any better as long as Wilson is around the only way he says it’ll get better is when he passes away. THURMAN THOMAS. It’s said to say that he is 100% correct.

Oh the joy of being a Bills fan

by Michael_Necci on Oct 5, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I won't deny his statistical "success" in weeks 1 and 2 this season.

But I have been less than enthused with his style of play even during that 2-week stretch. He hasn’t shown the belief in his teammates or himself that leads me to believe he’s the Bills’ long-term solution at QB. I have to wonder where that’s stemming from; what it is that’s making this kid tick in such a way right now.

I feel like he needs to throw all caution to the wind and play like W’s and L’s don’t matter. Play like he’s a kid again, and realize that ability doesn’t always need the brain tied to its decision.

Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.

by TheAfghanTwilight on Oct 5, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m ready to see this as well, and it’s a really good point. Even in the first two wins, I never saw anything from Edwards that wow-ed me. It was like he was just there and Freddie was the star, which, I think, is all Edwards will ever be even at his best. He’ll be a “there” quarterback. A Brad Johnson, a Kerry Collins (in the later years), a Baltimore Ravens Trent Dilfer.

Belief in his teammates or himself. Well put, Afghan. I think that’s part of what is missing.

I know Tony Romo isn’t playing well right now, nor are the Cowboys as a team. But on the last drive for the Cowboys yesterday, Romo faced a 4th and 4 (or so) around midfield. Romo dropped back and was pressured, but he stepped up into the pocket and rolled out to his left. He ran towards the line like he was going to try and run for it, but then he stopped on a dime and lofted a perfect sidearm pass to Sam Hurd, who ran a great make-shift scramble route and ended up with a 40 yard catch and run.

It was right after the end of the Bills’ game, and I thought to myself, “Trent takes a sack there or throws to the running back for 1 yard and expects him to make a play for the first down.”

I’m ready to see him be a playmaker. I can think of maybe 10 plays where Trent was the main factor in a “wow” moment for me. In 27 starts. The end-games against the Raiders and Jags last year come to mind originally. He made a nice throw late in the Redskins game two years ago to get us in FG range for the win. He’s made plays, but at this point he’s not a playmaker in my mind. And I don’t think he’ll ever be.

I’d rather see a mistake-riddled over-confident Tony Romo out there than a Brad Johnson at this point. Man, I can tell I’m just rambling but it’s just so frustrating!

by nickfeely8 on Oct 5, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d rather see a mistake-riddled over-confident Tony Romo out there than a Brad Johnson at this point. Man, I can tell I’m just rambling but it’s just so frustrating!

I think most would agree

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should be playing that way anyhow

Since he can’t do that, or isn’t good enough to do that, how can we expect much to change or for him to play consistently well all the time?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really really want Edwards to be good. If only wishing made it so.

"We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager."
-Marv Levy

by TEMSON on Oct 5, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I hate to say this

The list of free agent qb next year has a couple of interesting names on it. Travaris Jackson( I would like him to come in to camp to create some competition) Jason Campbell, Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton (I would take him over Trent everyday of the week and twice on sunday) Kyle Boller and David Carr. I know none are bonafied stars but given the right second chance to compete for a starting job, they might work out for us. All I know at this point we can no longer baby Trent and have to bring in some real competition. I am not in favor of drafting any of these qb in college that are coming out this year (bradford has bust written all over him and Tebow is not a nfl qb also Mccoy doesn’t have a nfl arm) I hope Trent corrects himself and we won’t be looking for a qb at the end of the year but most likely we will be.

Rrrroarrrr, rrroarrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions  

define interesting to me

if by interesting you mean bums. hell, why don’t you throw my name on the list. i can do as much as half these clowns and i’ll take the league minimum. no free agents, we need a QB 1st round. Clausen, McCoy, Bradford. anything less is unexceptable

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name the last Norte Dame qb to do anything in the league? I’m waiting….it was Joe montana so if you want Clausen go ahead and hitch your wagon to him and see how that works out for ya. I will take my chances by creating some competition for Trent by bring in a proven NFL player. I would love to have travaris Jackson in here to compete with Trent

Rrrroarrrr, rrroarrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just a terrible way to judge players or try to prove a point....

Who was the last good QB from Tennessee before Peyton Manning?
How about Ole Miss and Eli Manning?
Syracuse and Donovan McNabb?
Miami OH and Ben R?
USC and Carson Palmer?
Phil Rivers and NC State?
Jay Cutler, Vandy?
Aaron Rodgers at Cal?
You get the gist…

You don’t think Clausen would be a good NFL QB because he played at Notre Dame, yet your plan is to bring in Tarvaris friggin Jackson to compete with Trent Edwards?? That has to be one of the most ridiculous plans I’ve ever seen.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Claussen

Have we not learned our lessons about California QBs? Rob Johnson, J.P. Losman, Trent Edwards, Vince Ferragamo? Tell me which one of those guys could play up here in Buffalo? This is not an indictment of California players or QBs, but rather more of an argument of the environmental/geographical factor being an issue with these guys here.

by Adamjv on Oct 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah guys from California cant play in cold weather cities.....

good thing Tom Brady plays on the west coast with his 3 superbowl rings….how bout Carson Palmer in Cinci? Aaron Rodgers in GB?

Sanchez is gonna show us what he is made of in the winter time……

but this argument is so so much BS.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Outside of Brady… which one of those guys has had ANY real success. I am not saying that they arent good players, but playing on the other side of the country in bad weather does tend to affect them.

by Adamjv on Oct 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carson Palmer has taken his team to the Playoffs.......

played big in big games…….in cold weather…..it’s highly debatable that had he not gotten hurt vs the Steelers in that one playoff game that the could have easily finished how the Steelers did that year.

Guys like Brett Favre who grew up in Mississippi thrived in cold weather…..you think they have anything like GB weather down in Mississippi?

Nope……there’s a reason the NFL is the most widely recognized “TEAM” game in America………its because one person doesnt make the team. and the Teams that win have complete teams………having a QB from California as a reason why one team doesnt have success is a total and utter cop out.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true but

Norte dame has shown a pattern of producing under performing nfl qb. I am specfically talking about Norte Dame no other school

Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You missed my point..

I am referring to the fact that Jimmy Clausen is another California QB (he is from Thousand Oaks, CA)… I agree with you whole heartedly on the Notre Dame notion.

by Adamjv on Oct 5, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

people

how is 300yds/game, high 60’s completion % and 12-2 td/int ratio not good? i don’t understand how you don’t think this kid could be the new face of the franchise

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

because the defenses he is playing against so far.......

lets see how he does against a legit defense like USC/UCLA

then I’ll reconsider my opinion of the guy.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

flacco played against AA defenses, Matt Ryan played against army. every college team plays squash games, it doesn’t matter what divison your in(unless it’s the big 10, then your entire schedules a joke)

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

right but guys like Colt Brennan who threw for 5 million yards arent regarded as great QB's either

stats arent everything……….just like Brennan didnt magically become a high round pick because of his stats Im reserving judgement on Clausen too.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

they aren’t everything, but there something. not to mention no one ever claimed brennan was a leader with intangables. Clausen has the size, arm, swagger/confidence to be a leader of men. don’t think trent has it, don’t think tarvaris has it. last thing you want are guys in the huddle….or no huddle looking at a guy giving them plays to run and don’t have the trust in him because he doesn’t have the confidence that he can lead these guys to victory instead of just trying not to get blown out

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

And I, for one, haven’t even come close to writing off Quinn, who hasn’t even come close to getting a good look (6 games).

Anyone who’s really watched Clausen is going to see a super competitive, fiery QB who plays with a ton of swagger and a lot of confidence. As much as I hate to see the Bills lose, Clausen would be a hell of a consolation prize.

by Der Jaeger on Oct 5, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love QB's who play with swagger and confidence

That’s one of the biggest qualities I’d be looking for when drafting a QB. A QB needs to be a leader.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 5, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clausen really impressed me versus Purdue. Sure, Purdue stinks. But when he wasn’t playing he supported his team and the back-up, but was pinning to get back into the game. And when he did, he won it.

Every time I see him, I’m more impressed.

by Der Jaeger on Oct 6, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are getting my hopes up

and I wish that wasn’t the case.

From the sounds of it, he could be challenging for the #1 overall pick. We definitely won’t be getting that, as we’ll likely be around 8-12, per usual.

Maybe our new GM/HC will have the guts to move up?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 6, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe our new GM/HC will have the guts to move up?

If we hirge the GM/HC with the mind set that I want he sure woudln’t think twice about moving up and getting his guy

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Oct 6, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Trading in the upper first round is getting easier.

Cleveland didn’t get fair market value for last year’s 5th overall spot- they took much less. The contracts in the Top 10 and really Top 5 are so outrageous that many team would be willing to trade down for less that market value in order to not throw their pay scale out of whack.

So if we finish 5-11 or lower, we still have a shot at the top pick(s). Especially since Detroit, KC, Oakland and TB are committed to QB’s. We just have to pick higher or trade higher than St. Louis. For Buffalo, there’s no issue throwing our pay scale off because it would be for a potential franchise QB.

by Der Jaeger on Oct 6, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately STL will likely get the first pick....

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Oct 6, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jackson=Losman

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Stop smoking

Did you watch the last 5 games Minnesota played last year he was on fire. His finally matured his ready to do damage in this league, just wait and see when he gets the chance. Remember you heard it here first.

Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i remember people saying the same thing at the end of 2006 and beg of 07 for JP.....

weird.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

name the last great qb to come out of rutgers

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

So i can make myself look like an a$$

jackson went to bama st, don’t know why i thought he went to rutgers. But K’s made the point, there’s lots of players that come from “no name” schools and rock out. Bills are a hodge podge of talent from different schools (well most teams are) jackson from coe, moorman was a AA track star. I understand why people don’t like ND but you can’t deny clausen’s talent

Starting a movement to draft Jimmy Clausen in april, he'll be the 2nd coming of Kelly, the saviour of the Bills

by J. Mackin on Oct 5, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Teel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol oh yeaah Mike tell ...whos Mike teel?

Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was their QB last year......

currently 3rd String for the Seachickens…….

Wouldnt be suprised if he sees some snaps come Dec with the way they’ve been playing.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s is he a traditional drop back qb, scrambler?

Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes

by Moe_frm_B_ on Oct 5, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well he's more Matt Hasselbeck then Seneca Wallace.....

I can tell you that.

He is more of a traditional pro-style passer.

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time." (Robert Collier)

by norcaliangelsfan on Oct 5, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Set up to fail?

He is simply regressing and succumbing to the pressure of being an NFL QB and that when the injuries flow, its hard to know where to turn.
He, as well as the team, is failing. And no matter what it falls with the coach….if Trent can muster a positive season together the rest of the way, and Jauron is still fired, along with Brandom, Tom Dimitrioff and the rest of them, Trent might still stick around if he proves worthy of sticking.
We can only wait and see, but Jauron should have been fired in January, and this could have been avoided…(I at least would have hoped)

Good Luck With Your Firings Mr. Wilson….Go Bills!

by killascript on Oct 5, 2009 8:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I kind of disagree with a lot of what's being said.

First of all, I don’t see Trent Edwards regressing. If anything, I really think he’s playing up to Jauron’s expectations. Sure, his numbers look worse after two games this season – but remember, after games 1 and 2, he still had not thrown over 2 tds in a game and for over 300 yards. He just hadn’t thrown picks – the Bills just want him to take care of the ball. An Edwards “strength.” But let’s look at his career to this point – when he was a rookie, we were told that he’s smart, was injury prone, played behind a suspect offensive line at Stanford and didn’t have a big arm. Great. But he’s smart, right? Good enough.

So what do you do when playing a rookie? You blitz. And Trent… as advertised, was smart and got the ball out quickly. He looked good. Think Mark Sanchez in two games. Then defensive coordinators go to plan B. You don’t blitz… and play a 3-4 defense with a four-man rush (that gets pressure against a bad Buffalo offensive line) and now you’re asking Edwards to pinpoint passes into places that only a small percentage of NFL quarterbacks can fit throws. Think Brady to Watson on the back shoulder on the back end of the endzone over a lineback… beauty. In other words, defenses are forcing Edwards to either beat them with deadly accuracy, or throw deep. I’m not sure Edwards ever had the skill to do either… I want him to, but sometimes you’re just wishing…

I’d say that Edwards is giving us what’s been advertised, given the circumstances. Those circumstances, obviously include a bad bad offensive line that allows him little time to throw the football. Note that as I write this, Brett Farve throws the football all over the place, and when it works it’s magic, but when it doesn’t it looks baaaaaaad. Still, Brett Farve gives what is advertised… a strong arm, questionable accuracy, but balls and a lot of crazy magic. You can’t put that much blame on Edwards.

by Kooz on Oct 5, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

If this is what was advertised, I don’t want it. I love me some Trent but he needs to consistently make the throws you’re talking about.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope he can stand up to the pressure. I really like Trent. I have hoped he was the guy for a while now. Don’t crush my dreams.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Ive seen people mention brady quinn, which i would like, but what about a guy who has shown he can stretch the field and may be on the block?

kevin kolb?

by quantumuprising on Oct 6, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

The Eagles would be silly to get rid of him I think.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would think so too, but they signed vick to a big contract (if they keep him next year), and if they think vick is a reliable backup….why not trade kolb?

by quantumuprising on Oct 6, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

how about Thigpen?

I saw a guy that moved an offense with a crappy, crappy team.

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Oct 6, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

it just bothers me that not even they wanted to keep him.

then again, could be due to new coaching staff, etc.

by quantumuprising on Oct 6, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

When does his contract run out?

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 6, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure when that is – but kid looked good to me and consistently put up points

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Oct 7, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Free Agent in 2011. Assuming we don’t have an uncapped year that year.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008. Ignoring the grumblings on Rumblings.

by MattRichWarren on Oct 7, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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