No Line=No Offense.
An offense with a great line and mediocre running backs, receivers, and quarter backs can still be productive. An offense with a mediocre line, good running backs, good receivers, and a mediocre quarterback can not be productive. In the NFL offensive production begins with the line. The line is the foundation of any offense. If a house does not have a strong foundation it will fall no matter how pretty the upper structures are. An offense will fail no matter how good the ball handlers are if there is no line to support them.
So why then would the Bills see fit to trade Jason Peters, and cut Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery with no proven replacements? Add to that a group of tight-ends that can neither stay healthy or block. Who is making these decisions for the Bills?
There is no mystery here as to why the Bills offense is terrible. It has no foundation on which to stand. As to the genius who made these decisions one can only speculate. One thing is sure though; the person or people that are responsible for these decisions are football ignorant.
This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.
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Langston Walker is a bum with decreasing NFL skills. He is currently playing on the only line in the NFL worse than the Bills. The same could be said for Derrick Dockery. They were both over-paid and under-productive last season. Jason Peters was a tricky situation. He no longer wanted to play for Buffalo. That was apparent. So they should have kept him and waited til September or October for him to end his hold-out? And then waited another month or two for him to get into game shape. And then when he is physically ready to play he doesn’t care because he no longer wants to play for this franchise. He needed to be traded and we got a 1st round pick out of it. I think the only mistake the Bills FO made was not bringing in a veteran LT to replace Peters or not drafting one early. I agree that their line is bad and that is why the offense is useless, but get over the fact that they let these guys walk. They weren’t helping anything. Our tight ends can block. The fact that they all have been injured is not a fault of the front office, so I don’t see your point there.
They made a move to get younger on the line for the future.
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by willgarr15 on Nov 10, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Walker was a good RT and a bad LT. This coaching staff shouldn’t have changed his position. The Bills would be blessed to have Langston Walker playing RT for them right now.
by csc06258 on Nov 13, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well they could have easily kept him. They thought the bottom fell out. He is a backup in Oakland on one of the worst lines in the league. Nobody else showed interest which needs to tell you something.
Pine for better play. I do. Don’t pine for Walker.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To continue the metaphor – nor was a quality foundation built overnight. Or eight games as the case may be.
I’d hazard a guess that had the Bills not drafted Wood and Levitre – who, in my opinion show great promise – this very same poster would be bemoaning the fact that the damn Bills FO did nothing to replace the overweight, overpaid and ineffective Dockery and Walker, god awful Fowler/Preston duo and the malcontent but talented Peters.
Perfect rear view vision is the best friend of those that just want to gripe and refuse to see any positive aspects of anything.
by LeClaireBill on Nov 10, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Thank god. Finally, something original…
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 10, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does everyone think that bold and italicized works as the sarcasm font? Or is it too commonplace? I could stick with the whole /sarcasm thing if it is more clear.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 10, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this o line is not like the 2001Bills o line this o line plays w heart this is the best o line the bills half had in years we had a guy w an ego peters a guy w bad arm but a good guy walker so the bills did what thay need to do cut walker and send peters to pilly we are doing fine on the o line beter then the pats and the jets are doing on the o line.
by 14fizzpatrick on Nov 10, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
An offense with a great line and mediocre running backs, receivers, and quarter backs can still be productive
And Arizona, Green Bay, Houston and Pittsburgh have all proven that you can have a great offense without a good offensive line. There is no one way to build an offense.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 10, 2009 5:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No examples of a successful OL trumping mediocre skill play? Man I would love to read about the team that rode their OL to the Super Bowl championship.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 11, 2009 8:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that the Giants of two years ago won the Super Bowl due, in large part, to their OL. Their skill players weren’t particularly great.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 11, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the reasons people look to for that team were the defensive front four and a miracle catch by David Tyree. Not to mention Plaxico Burress.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 11, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every team rides their offensive Line to the Superbowl.
by Pietro Sirianni on Nov 11, 2009 6:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Steelers didn’t. Neither did the Cardinals.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 11, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Both the Steelers and Cardinals had to be in the bottom 10 of OL play last year. Neither team has a good OL. They both have crappy LTs, no depth and their best lineman are good, but not great.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 11, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arizona got lucky last year. Look at what they are doing this year. Pittsburgh has Big Ben and a stout defense. I would say that success doesn’t automatically come from a good offensive line but it is one of the more important pieces. I think if you did a study you would find most Superbowl winners have really good O-Lines.
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
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by partyboybackformore on Nov 12, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if you did a study you would find most Superbowl winners have really good O-Lines.
And QBs. And defenses. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that most Super Bowl teams are, ya know, good at lots of stuff?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 12, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You missed my point
There are teams that win with brad johnsons. There are teams that win with bad defenses, like the 06’ Colts or the 98’ Broncos(I actually checked those so don’t try to dispute it, they were below average defenses) It happens. I am just saying that a good O-Line is a piece that you would find to be more common on Superbowl Winners. It takes a lot of pieces but a deficiency on the O-line is more harmful than a deficiency at the LB or WR or QB. Buffalo Whiner said it best below
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
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by partyboybackformore on Nov 13, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And you missed my point. You can’t point to any one part as a must-have for a SB champion. It doesn’t exist. All of the stuff is important.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I got it.
It takes a lot of pieces
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
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by partyboybackformore on Nov 13, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s way too general a statement to be true.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 11, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always agree with this statement
(The proverbial, you win in the trenches) – Parcells, Lombardi, all the great coaches made that statement as their philosophy.
- With a good offensive line, you wear down the defense
- With a good offensive line, you create a running game, that then opens up the passing game.
- With a good offensive line, your Q.B. has more time to find open receiver’s, since coverage does break down eventually.
- With a good offensive line, holes are created that lead to big play’s or longer runs.
- With a good offensive line, your Q.B. will not take a beating and will probably last the whole season.
- * Anybody that believes that it is not important to have a good offensive line to be a good football team, show me one championship caliber team that has won without a good line. The last time I can remember was the Giants o-line when they lost to Baltimore in the Super Bowl many years ago.
-Giants won with Manning
- Bucs won with Brad Johnson
- The Giants beat Jim Kellly with Jeff Hornacek because they pounded at the 3:4 defense.
- Ravens won with Trent Dilfer- Don’t get me wrong, I also believe that if you have a great line and good Q.B., added plus!
Aaron Rodgers is taking a beating this season for Green Bay.
- Don’t get me wrong, I also believe that if you have a great line and good Q.B., added plus!
by BuffaloWhiner on Nov 12, 2009 9:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Anybody that believes that it is not important to have a good offensive line to be a good football team, show me one championship caliber team that has won without a good line.
Steelers last year. Yes it’s important. No it’s not the only thing that’s important.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 12, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Horncek....haha!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 12, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant Hostetler. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 12, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Giants also beat Jim Kelly with Jeff Hornacek because his three point shooting just killed us all Super Bowl long.
by Future Considerations on Nov 12, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No team that ever won a Super Bowl did so with an offensive line that is as poor as that of the Buffalo Bills. It’s one thing to be a loyal fan, but being blinded by loyalty does not make the Bills any better. Making excuses for rookies and injuries does not make the O-line any better either. Poor planning, terrible foresight and a lack of football common sense plagues the Bills front office and coaches. This would not happen to a Bill Polian team, or a Bill Parcels team for example.
I wake up with hope every Sunday and look forward to watching the Bills. However, I know the team is fundamentally flawed. I know any win will come with a lot of luck and only against very poor teams. I am a loyal Bills fan, but i refuse to be blinded by my loyalty. If we ever want to see the playoffs again MAJOR CHANGES must be made now. then maybe in 3 or 4 years, if the right changes have been made, we may have a playoff contender.
There’s not much mystery to it either. Hire the best GM you can find, hire the best talent scouts and player development, hire the best coaches, and get the best players. Ralph Wilson has to stop shopping in the NFL bargain basement.
by Pietro Sirianni on Nov 12, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who is blind? Nobody is saying “ZOMG! Our OL is so talented. Why can’t the Van Pelt call better plays?” We are saying that OL does not equal success. No line can in face equal some offense. Plus a great line does not equal offense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 12, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ralph Wilson has to stop shopping in the NFL bargain basement.
For starters, Ralph doesn’t do the shopping. He’s just a rich guy who hires people to do his shopping for them. It is Ralph’s fault that those guys keep coming back with socks that already have holes in them, but it’s important to differentiate that he’s not actually the guy who’s going out and picking which FAs to sign.
And I threw this out in another post, here are some salary facts about the Bills:
Last year, Buffalo finished 16th in salary (that’s base salaries and bonuses) and had the 4th highest salary in the entire league in 2007.
The 2009 numbers aren’t out there yet, so only the New Orleans Saints have spent more money on players in each of the last two seasons.
Atlanta, Baltimore, Carolina, Cincy, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Houston, Indy, Kansas City, Philly, San Diego, Seattle and Tampa Bay (14 teams) have spent less money than Buffalo in two straight seasons.
Ralph Wilson is not half as cheap as people think he is. Jason Peters was not traded because Ralph Wilson didn’t want to pay him.
USA Today provides the salary info:
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=3
The Bills have been spending. They’re just giving it to the wrong players.
And onto the OL:
Nobody thinks the OL isn’t important. Obviously it’s very important. I’ll try the argument like this:
The OL has five starters. The offense as a whole has 11 starters and one of those guys is almost a throw away player like a FB, 2nd TE or slot WR. So the offensive line is basically half of your offense. Obviously, very important. What I don’t understand is why that half of the offense is more important than the other half. It’d be like me saying no QB, RB, WR and TE = no offense.
No team that ever won a Super Bowl did so with an offensive line that is as poor as that of the Buffalo Bills
No team has ever won a Super Bowl with this caliber of run defense either. No team has ever won a Super Bowl with QBs who stink (even the mediocre guys had good games during the playoffs). Maybe a handful of teams have won a Super Bowl with this average (more like below average) of a pass rush.
The Bills have problems that extend beyond the OL. A better offensive line doesn’t magically make this team a playoff team. And sure, you could make the argument that if Buffalo had one of the best offensive lines in the league, the team would be much, much better, but you can say that about every unit on the team. If the LBs were twice as good, much better team, if the QB is one of the best, Buffalo is sitting above .500, etc…
Making excuses for rookies and injuries does not make the O-line any better either
Sure, but there is no possible way to make this OL better for sunday’s game. So before we talk about major changes on the OL, let’s consider how they will look next season. And my guess is that the two rookie guards are going to look pretty good. Blame the coaches all you want for thinking that starting two rookie guards and Langston Walker at LT was a good idea because it was a terrible idea with Walker being one of the single worst personel decisions I have ever seen a team make. But don’t blame the young players for not being good enough. Saying this OL needs major changes because the young guys are struggling is like saying that Detroit and the Jets need majord changes at QB. Unlike tackles, rookie guards always need time. Not sometimes, there are very rarely exceptions, rookie guards always need time. It’s not a position based on athleticism like the rest of the lineup. It’s about strength and technique and you don’t walk into the NFL with those qualities being better than the veterans you line up across from. All things considered, these are two of the best performances from rookie guards over the past decade. Literally, they might both be in the top 10 of rookie seasons from a guard in the 2000s.
Demetrius Bell was probably the single most raw players selected in the 2008 draft. He also needs some time and is playing the most challenging spot on the line. I think he could be an average or better starter at RT sometime next season. I truly belive the Bills are a LT and a year away from being an average OL with the potential to have one of the best lines in the league. I don’t think they need major changes at all.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 12, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Literally, they might both be in the top 10 of rookie seasons from a guard in the 2000s.
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice.
by J2 on Nov 12, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What good is calling better plays if the line can not execute them? Van Pelt can not call plays that make his players better than they are. He could lean to their strengths but sadly; they have none.
by Pietro Sirianni on Nov 12, 2009 2:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Last time I checked the Bills were still 3-5, with 123 points scored, thats 5th worst in the league. Defend the O-line all you want but the proof is in the pudding.
by Pietro Sirianni on Nov 12, 2009 6:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pietro – if you click “reply” to the comment that you’re replying to, it’ll thread it so we can tell who you’re actually talking to. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 12, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is defending the OL? I’m only saying that some of these guys are very young and are going to improve. I’ll go back to the QB analogy because I don’t understand how saying the OL needs to be completely overhauled is any different from saying that Detroit and NY need major changes at QB. If Wood and Levitre improve along the typical arc for guards, they’ll be much better next year (which is a scary good thought) and if Bell improves as much as he has improved from last year, then he’s probably a decent starter. Butler has already proven he can get the job done at guard, we can always put him back there. I don’t see how saying Buffalo only needs one major addition on the OL is defending them.
And why is the Bills poor offensive performance only leave the OL at fault? The QB play has been consistently terrible for the last five games while the OL has had some really terrible and some slightly terrible performances. I’m just saying that there are other ways to build a team and other needs to be addresssed.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 12, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its really simple. I have seen many offenses with mediocre quarterbacks go to, and win the Super Bowl. They were able to do that because their line blocked well enough to sustain a running attack. A running attack wears down the opposing defense and eventually opens up the pass. Do I need to remind everyone that Rob Johnson has a ring and actually started a couple games for the 2002 Bucs. He started and won a game against the Bears that clinched a home field advantage through the playoffs. That game the Bucs won by scoring 5 field goals and grinding down the Bears with a solid running game.
The Bill’s defense amazes me week after week. They play beyond themselves and their injuries. However, no defense in the world can stay on the field as long as The Bills defense has to and not give up big plays at the end of a game. The offense’s inability to sustain time consuming drives and put points on the board is killing the team. That inability is the direct result of the line’s failure to block properly.
There is a reason teams rarely if ever start the number of rookies the Bills have on the offensive line; it is suicide! The future ‘may’ hold promise for the line, but nothing is a given in the NFL, and in the meantime we are watching sub-NFL football when it comes to the Bills offense. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The Bills weakest link breaks with a gentle tug.
by Pietro Sirianni on Nov 13, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have seen many offenses with mediocre quarterbacks go to, and win the Super Bowl.
And if you watched the Super Bowl in February you saw two teams with mediocre offensive lines play.
The offense’s inability to sustain time consuming drives and put points on the board is killing the team. That inability is the direct result of the line’s failure to block properly.
Dropped passes, dancing RBs, and bad QB play has a lot to do with that, too, though. You can’t boil it down all the way to one thing.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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