(Eric) Wood was my favorite center in the country last year coming out of Louisville. The Bills have turned him into a guard and done a tremendous job. I definitely think he has pro bowl potential. but don't forget about his teammate Andy Levitre, the second round pick who was a left tackle in college and the Bills kicked him inside to guard. The Bills probably have the best pair of young guards in the NFL.
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Brian Galliford
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Wood has been great, Levitre is still a work in progress in my opinion. Hangartner has been disappointing, I have had really high hopes for him and don’t even get me started on our tackles. Guards are definetly not a priority as much as quality tackles, so to say we have the best young guards in the league is worthless when we clearly have the worst offensive tackles.
"You play to win the game, you don't play to just play it" - Herm Edwards
by Jason from OH-IO on Nov 12, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions
yeah
we are just an owner, GM, HC, 2 OT’s, 1 QB, away from having a decent football team
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
and a run defense
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
And for a more than decent team
1 C, 2 OT, 1 TE, 1 WR, 1 QB, 1 FB, 1 DT, 1 DE, 2 LB, 1 GM and 1 HC. Shoot, that’s a pretty big list.
by o.c.blazerfan on Nov 12, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
"Best pair of young guards"
I don’t disagree, but I’m wondering how many teams actually have a pair of young guards starting. I’d imagine most teams have at least one veteran starting at a Guard position…
Is that statement saying anything?!?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
just be happy K :-)
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice.
by J2 on Nov 12, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I am
It’s nice to have a future at the position instead of some overpaid, lazy veterans.
I’m just wondering how many other pairs of young guards there are…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
as young as ours? not many if any at all
but I bet he wasn’t just saying guards with 8 games experience – but young guards – so probably guards < 3 years.
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice.
by J2 on Nov 12, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry
Once they realize their good they’ll want too much money and then we’ll trade them away for picks we will have to use to draft their replacements.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Nov 12, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Peters jab???
I don’t think (could be wrong here) that Peters has played to his worth this season. I was watching one game were he went to cut block a DE and wiffed. The DE side hopped him and made a sack.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
They keep getting rid of guys and drafting replacements. They drafted Lynch b/c Willis left (don’t get me wrong, I’m glad he left). The drafted Poz b/c they got rid of Fletcher. They just keep treading water instead of keeping talent and then improving via the draft. That was all that meant. That and I’m very ornery today.
by bluecollarbuffalo on Nov 12, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
And they resigned...
…Evans, Schobel, Kelsay, and McGee to pretty good sized contracts. We can argue all day about if the dollars were right and if the player deserved it… not the point though. Buffalo hasn’t been shy about resigning players.
Willis was an a$$ and needed to go. Fletcher and Clements were the results of a new regime cleaning house/making iffy decisions early on.
Well, they traded Willis for two 3rd rounders and essentially turned him into Edwards and Stroud. So I wouldn’t exactly call that one treading water.
And some of the guys Buffalo has let go have been because there’s somebody on the roster who’s ready to take over (Greer/McKelvin, Clements/McGee).
So who else has really left? Fletcher was a mistake. It seemed like the right move at the time, he was getting older and fans were starting to get on him for making tackles downfield, but looking back, it was a mistake. I believe that Peters was traded because Buffalo didn’t think he would be worth the money and not because they were unwilling to pay him. Spikes was traded because he wasn’t worth the money after tearing his achilles. Pat Williams and Winfield were a long time ago. Crowell isn’t the same player he was in Buffalo. I’m sure I’m missing some names, but who else has Buffalo let walk and had to replace via the draft?
And it’s also important to realize that every team loses guys through FA that they have to then replace. The Pats let Asante Samuel walk, got nothing and have had to sign some FAs and use a handful or early picks in an attempt to replace him. The Dolphins just let Andre Goodman walk to Denver and used two picks on CBs.
Working within a budget is something the Bills have to do to. Over the last two seasons, Buffalo has spent about 110 mil per season on players. They don’t use the cap like some teams do (and those team often spend 130 mil when they can and get stuck working within a cap budget and spend under 90 the next season). So every dollar saved by letting a player walk is a dollar that goes right back into FA. Buffalo isn’t letting players leave, drafting their replacements and sitting around doing nothing in free agency. Sure, they traded Peters and cut Dock and drafted two offensive lineman, but they also signed TO, something they wouldn’t have done had they not lost Peters and Dock. Fletcher walks and the Bills draft Poz, but they also went out and signed a couple offensive lineman. They’ve signed Kawika Mitchell, traded for Stroud, wasted money on guys like Royal and Triplett. The problem has been bad moves and not a lack of effort.
And the Bills have been one of the couple most proactive teams when it comes to handing out extensions in the league. Longer term deals for Butler, Evans, Williams, McGee (twice), Stroud and Jackson when these guys were under contract or the Bills’ control for awhile longer.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 13, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Baltimore’s duo of Grubbs and Chester is very young and very good. Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks are a young duo in New Orleans. Atlanta has Blalock and Harvey Dahl. Jeremy Zuttah and Davin Joseph in Tampa. Kemoeatu and Essex are pretty young in Pittsburgh. Baas and Rachal in SF.
This is quite the compliment from Mayock.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
yeah – I don’t even know why I bother.
I say – well young as in 3 years or less – Kaiser tells you everything but the zip code they were born in. I’m officially starting a “defer to kaiser” clause in my responses.
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice.
by J2 on Nov 12, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Bass and Rachal aren't very good through...
and I thought Essex played RT?
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 12, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Colon at RT i think
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
SF seems to run the ball pretty well. I won’t admit to spending much (any) watching that team or those guys play though.
Essex has played RT in the past, but is currently starting at RG.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
What it means is this:
The Bills have a pair of stud guards in the making. Two guys who can do nothing but get better together and hopefully hold down those two spots for a decade +.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Their contracts are not for that long, and the Bills don't resign studs
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
They re-signed Evans to a huge contract. Don’t overgeneralize, Joe.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
IMO, Evans is not a "stud"......a very nice player, even a playmaker....but not a stud. IMO, stud would be top 10 in the league
The last two stud lineman we had were Jason Peters and Pat Williams. I agreed with letting Peters go, but not Pat. Either way, my point is valid.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Well Evans’ contract places him in “stud” range. You said the Bills don’t resign studs. They considered Evans enough of a stud to make him one of the 12 highest paid players at his position. The Bills had the biggest payrolls in the league in the early 90s. Ralph has shown he will pay for studs.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously we had some studs in the glory days, Matt
Just because we gave Evans a big contract doesn’t make him a stud. Honestly, make a list of the top WRs in the league and see where Evans ends up.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Oh I agree with you on Evans. And the glory days. But don’t pull out the song and dance that the Bills won’t pay for studs. Ralph did 20 years ago. Ralph did last year. He is paying Lee Evans 9.5M a year average or something like that. They will pay for talent.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
20 years ago, I had 6 pack abs and could drink all night long.
Things change. Yes, the Bills will overpay for average talent because they have to, but who is the last stud the Bills paid big money for?
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Takeo Spikes.
I think it’s irrelevant whether or not Evans is a stud. For me, since they paid him like one, it shows that they are willing to pay to keep one. They just gave Stroud a pretty rich extension. I think they were willing to pay Peters, but by the time they made him an offer, he’d already made up his mind and no way was Buffalo giving him a Jake Long contract. Aaron Schobel got a very big contract. I think they wanted to bring Clements back, but were never serious about it and his contract was an absurd one that maybe a handful of teams would have given him. Winfield and Williams walked and I don’t recall much of an effort to bring them back.
I’m sure I’m missing some. Either way, it isn’t a good track record. I don’t think it’s fair to say that Buffalo wouldn’t resign a stud player though. Especially considering how devoid of talent they are. Buffalo has been very proactive with early extensions too. That’s one thing I’d like to see the FO continue to do even if there’s major changes.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
For me, since they paid him like one, it shows that they are willing to pay to keep one.
That’s the only point I was trying to make.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 14, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Spikes seems like a long time ago, but I agree he would be the last stud the Bills signed
For me, since they paid him like one, it shows that they are willing to pay to keep one.
To me, that is just another example of the Bills overpaying for above average talent. Your paycheck does not always reflect your worth. If the Bills paid me 1 mil a year to play WR, I would never be worth it. Again, make a list of the top WRs, DEs, DTs, etc in the league and see where they shake out. Schobel is a perfect example. Nice player…no Jerod Allen.
They just gave Stroud a pretty rich extension.
Stroud may be the best example of a more current player. But remember, the Bills took a chance on Stroud. It was no guarantee that he would ever be the player he was before the injury……and I am not sure he still is. Either way, I am not sure that his current contract or play puts him into the stud category.
I think they were willing to pay Peters, but by the time they made him an offer, he’d already made up his mind and no way was Buffalo giving him a Jake Long contract.
If that is the case, then the Bills are idiots!!!!! Peters was either worth being paid as the best LT in the NFL or he wasn’t. If the Bills thought he was, then low balling him until he was so pissed off that he wouldn’t resign with the team has got to be one of the dumbest things I could ever think of doing to a stud player.
Clements went to SF, Winfield and Williams to MN, Greer to NO, Peters to Philly….these teams are not known for having Snyder-like owners. We keep telling ourselves that these teams overpaid for our talent, but at least 3 of those 4 teams are going to make the playoffs with our “overpriced” along with some other overpriced players from other teams. Once is a aberration, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a trend.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that Buffalo wouldn’t resign a stud player though.
Maybe it is not fair, but until the Bills actually do it, I feel like I am correct.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Cornerbacks are a dime a dozen and I don’t feel bad any of them were let go. You can’t bet the farm on one player at non-premium positions, like CB, RB, LB, or WR, because it hurts your ability to pay for other players and quality depth. Peters has not proved he’s worth the exorbitant contract he was given by Philly. He had shown tremendous ability but his attitude and consistency were lacking with Buffalo. Williams, I’ll agree was a mistake, but that’s basically the only one I can agree with you on.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 14, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
If shutdown CBs who can support the run are a dime a dozen,
then why did we use a high pick on Leo? I always thought RB and WR were considered skill positions, not non-premium…..but that is beside the point. I agree that Peters had a bad attitude and was all for letting Peters go, but if the Bills caused that attitude with the hope of still resigning him, then they were willing to pay the money but mishandled the situation. IMO, the Bills should have kept Winfield, Williams, and Greer. They should have given Peters his money, or replaced him with a high draft pick.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
The Bills won't pay for studs
because they never have any….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
That is more accurate…
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 14, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
and FAs studs will not come to the Bills for any amount of money
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Maybe
The real strength of the Patriot line is Mankins and Koppen. For the ’05 Steelers it was Faneca and Hartings.
It means we’ve got the start of something good.
They’ll both be fine, but we need to get Butler back at RT and figure out if we need to draft Russell Okung in the draft or if we can stay with Bell. Time will tell…
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 12, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions
I agree with the statement
However I would really like to see Wood move to C. I really think he could dominante and help put out calls. Hang should go back to what he is – a back up C. Putting Butler next year back at RG I think would be great and then all you need is one OT (perhaps putting Bell to RT) and I think that could be a great line.
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Nov 12, 2009 4:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Does......
anyone know if Butler will be 100% next year or has his career been affected by this latest injury. I’m not sure he can be counted on for a full season ever again. He seems to be injury prone to say the least. I do like the overall idea of getting everyone in their best positions though.
Agreed....Butler will make a nice backup T/G
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Or a good starter back at RG with Wood at center. I wouldn’t mind him back at RT either if Bell doesn’t improve and can’t handle RT. I think a healthy Butler needs to be starting.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
If he can’t stay healthy, though, does it do you any good to keep him starting and break up continuity when he inevitably goes down?
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
That is exactly why I put him as a backup
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
I was more referring to kaiser saying he could start at RG. I agree with you that backup is probably the right place for him.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
Got ya.....I was actually agreeing with you as well :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Poz is injury prone too. Should he not start? Maybe the Colts should sit Bob Sanders on the bench. I think you have to put your best players on the field and Butler is one of Buffalo’s best offensive lineman. He certainly seems better than Hang, so I don’t see how moving Wood to center, starting Butler at RG and letting Hang back him up at RG isn’t an obvious move. He started every game in 2007 and only missed three games last year, so it isn’t like he is incapable of playing close to a full season.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Would you you say that continuity on the Oline is more/less important than for FS and SS?
I like Butler when he is healthy, but he has been missing more games, not less with each passing season. Don’t the kinds of injuries he has been dealing with have a cumulative effect? I am sensing a trend. Is he really that good that he can’t be replaced as a starter?
IMO, draft a LT and let him battle Bell/Merideth for the position. Whoever comes in 2nd place plays RT and backup LT. Butler is the backup RT.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
I’m one of the few who thinks continuity on the OL is overrated. Every team deals with injuries there. I think juggling guys from position to position hurts, but I don’t think that replacing Butler with Hang for a handful of games would lead to a worse OL than letting Hang start the whole season. And I think Buffalo has way too many needs to try and fill two different spots on the OL, so two of Hang, Butler and Bell need to be starting next year.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Butler was moved to RT because we was supposedly better at RT than RG...so which is it?
Will he get injured less at RG? I think it is more important to get it right than get locked into saying 2 of 3 of those guys need to start. Given the Bills recent history of miscalculating Olinemen’s abilities, I am not sure we wouldn’t be better off trying to draft two more Olinemen this year. I was never sold on Hang at center or Bell at LT. You assume Hang will be better at RG and Bell will be better at RT. Maybe …. but if you really want depth at the O-line, we better keep stocking the shelf.
Yes, we have needs at other positions. But if we are ever going adequately pass protect and establish our running game, which is vital to allow us to see what Edwards can do (yes, I assume that no matter who we draft, Edwards will begin the season as our starting QB), or if we want to develop instead of destroy our next QB, the Oline needs to be fixed now. We can just convert some late round fat DB to play LB :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
I know nothing about the O-line
but if i recall it took Peters a long while to get to his Pro Bowl level. If Bell has the athleticism and smarts, he could be pretty decent after a while.
I recall the John Fina pick and the ESPN analysts befuddled look. And throughout his career, no one ever really seemed to think too highly of him. But in retrospect, he was one solid tackle, not splashy, but solid.
Mike Mayock is the Man
The guy knows his stuff and for him to say this means a lot. We need better tackles and I hope we draft a pair of them in the first two rounds, or get one via free agency. Geoff doesn’t look great either and would like to upgrade the position. We need to build this team starting with the O-line.




















