With season in tailspin, Bills have QB controversy
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 8:45 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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Print'Quarterback controversy' is a term, and a situation, that has been all too prevalent for the Buffalo Bills as a franchise over the past decade. Not many NFL teams have had as many questions surrounding football's most important position in that time frame, and that fact alone speaks volumes towards the fact that the Bills are on the verge of missing the post-season for a tenth consecutive season.
The current Buffalo Bills, who stand at 3-6 on the season and are looking at an off-season of massive changes, are now staring down the barrel of perhaps the most feeble and meaningless quarterback controversy in team history: Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick?
Dick Jauron on Monday wouldn't commit to a starter. When the Bills begin preparations for Week 11 on Wednesday, Jauron is expected to announce his starter for that particular the game. Unfortunately for Jauron and Buffalo, there isn't a right answer to the question - which, of course, only emphasizes the total, utter chaos these Bills seem to be on the verge of.
Arguments predominantly against Edwards
I say arguments for and against Edwards because the fact of the matter is this: the only argument that holds any water in favor of Fitzpatrick is the quickly-ripening "Edwards just isn't good enough" argument. There's absolutely no reason that a player of Fitzpatrick's caliber sees the field unless it's due to injury, or if it's due to a complete, epic collapse on the starter's part.
Edwards is on the outskirts of that territory. Though his numbers weren't awful in the Bills' Week 10 loss in Tennessee (18 of 28, 185 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT), the offense - and, in reality, the team itself - began to collapse around him on Sunday. Receivers openly questioned his reads on the field and on the sidelines. Jauron himself mentioned post-game that the offense "missed things" on the field. Edwards continues to play as if he trusts no one around him, nor himself. How is a team, in any state of array or disarray, supposed to rally around a player they don't trust in any sense of the word?
In terms of this specific controversy, Jauron may be forced to put Fitzpatrick into the lineup simply to avoid the mutiny that could ensue if Edwards doesn't improve (and there's no reason to expect that to happen). If the fact that Jauron may be forced to play a quarterback based solely on damage control doesn't speak volumes about his future with this organization, I don't know what does.
The common fan perspectives
There are two predominant ways that fans will approach this new, exciting controversy. The most common perspective will be that Edwards is clearly the superior talent, and thus should start on that fact alone. It's certainly not unreasonable - the team certainly isn't going anywhere with Fitzpatrick, who has reached his professional ceiling, and we might as well play Edwards to see what the guy can do before a new coaching regime comes in. (It might be irrational, however, to expect Jauron to take that position; like it or not, the man is still coaching for his job.)
Most folks who don't fall into that spectrum will take the apathetic approach; these people will, in some form or another, say that it doesn't really matter who plays quarterback, because, as mentioned above, the team's not going anywhere with either player at the helm. Many of these folks are also so far from caring that they might nominate Gibran Hamdan or Fred Jackson for starting quarterback duties. That's a bit absurd, but it highlights the lack of caring. Why not start Edwards? Why not start Fitzpatrick? It doesn't matter either way.
I'm somewhere between those two categories. I'd like to see Edwards play for all of the reasons stated above, but I'm not going to get upset if he doesn't, because it would be difficult to blame Jauron for playing the quarterback (i.e. Fitzpatrick) that is the furthest from boom-or-bust in terms of his team's psyche. In all likelihood, we're going to see both players in significant chunks over the next seven weeks, so this decision will probably turn out to be meaningless as well.
There it is. It's not a complete lack of caring on my behalf, but more an understanding that this Bills team is on the verge of a complete meltdown from top to bottom, and this decision could turn out to be the final spark for the ensuing blaze. Fun times, folks. Fun times. With the way things are going, would anyone be surprised to see Hamdan get the nod?
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now staring down the barrel of perhaps the most feeble and meaningless quarterback controversy in team history
that pretty much sums it up.
I want Edwards to start – plain and simple. We’re not going to be winning with either at the helm most likely. See what we have in Edwards for the rest of the season
Never put salt in your eyes
I find it unbelievable that there could be a controversy between these two. As bad as Edwards and the OL played on sunday, it was still the most efficient and productive offensive performance since the Tampa Bay game. Three long drives for scores and up until Edwards’ late game pick six, Buffalo didn’t have a drive start outside their own 37 yard line with an average starting spot of the 24 yard line. I’m not sure how the O was supposed to do much better than they did considering how pathetic the OL was.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 17, 2009 8:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
except for the fact that fitz has won more games. attribute it to whatever you want, but the fact remains.
by quantumuprising on Nov 17, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Fitz sucks but at least he has had a few times in his career where he found success. He was on a 5 game winning streak as a starter before his last loss. When has Edwards ever won 5 games in a row? Oh right never. Fitz has one 300 yard game under his belt. Edwards has 0 and likely never will. How pathetic is the QB situation when people are trying to state Edwards is “clearly the better QB” when the guy is ranked 24th in the league and only has one acceptable stat to his name (completion percentage). Of course that doesn’t mean a whole heck of a lot when you are averaging 5 yards per completion. Edwards stinks with a capital S. Fitz also sucks pretty severely. At this point the situation is this: Edwards has proven he can’t read the field (for whatever reason) and even when he does, can’t deliver the ball more often than not (beyond 3 yards). Fitz: less than exciting career, pretty much already identified as a backup quality player a couple years ago and the Bills knew it when they brought him in to “not push” Edwards.
Hamdan is the only guy we don’t know much about (although we suspect he sucks too). Might as well see what you have in Hamdan, after all, does it really matter? Throw these games and get a really good draft pick, there are tons of great QBs in the 2010 draft.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
When has Edwards ever won 5 games in a row?
The start of last season?
How pathetic is the QB situation when people are trying to state Edwards is "clearly the better QB" when the guy is ranked 24th in the league
Fitz’s stats are even worse. Trent’s completion% is 10 points higher, his TD/INT ratio is better, his yards per attempt is almsot 2 yards higher and his yards per completion is even more than yard higher. I know Trent’s numbers are bad, but they are clearly better and Edwards is clearly better. Just because getting punched in the face once and getting punched in the face ten times both suck, it doesn’t mean that isn’t clearly better than the other.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
um no...
Bills started 4-1. Trent may have gotten his head crushed at the beginning of the 5th game but he was the starter.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
You’re doing that thing where one replies to everyone who disagrees with something, no matter how big or small the disagreement is.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
the what now?
you’re doing that thing where you write a sentence that is not coherent.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
If you replace “one replies,” which I wrote to generalize, with “you reply,” I think you’ll get the gist.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
That loss was against Arizona and I didn’t count it since Trent went down. They did win their next game in an Edwards start against San Diego.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
When has Edwards ever won 5 games in a row?
When has Fitzpatrick?
He won his last 3 as the starting QB for Cincy last year, and his first against the Panthers this year before losing to Houston. That’s 4. If you are including the Jets game as a victory for Fitzpatrick, then you need to disregard the Edwards loss to AZ last year. Same manipulation of numbers.
And I find it funny that Fitzpatrick is considering the winning QB in these games when he did absolutely nothing to win the games. He threw 9 passes in one of those Cincy wins last year. He threw for under 130 yards in four of those five wins.
They both are awful. That’s pretty much the gist of it all….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
2 concussions in about a year's time
I think this is still affecting Edwards’ play. He is afraid of getting a career-ending injury now, and playing behind that OL, nobody can really blame him.
At least the equipment manager could get him one of Kelso’s old kazoo helmets for insurance…
Get the Bills back to the big game!
that may be the cause of the problem, but shouldn’t be an excuse for Edwards. If his concussions have effected him this badly already, don’t expect the effect to magically go away. More realistically, expect more concussions to come, especially behind this o-line.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Has anyone seen how Westbrook after his 2nd concussion isn’t even sure if he will come back to football? Hell if I had two concussions in a year with whoever we pick from a hat at tackle I would be scared for my life!
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
cause and effect
Trent’s Concussions:
The first hit against the cardinals and Adrian Wilson incurred a $25,000 fine for being a shot to the head – illegal.
The 2nd hit in the Jet’s game was not deemed illegal but really is not a normal football play you see over the course of the season, especially on a QB. When they do happen that viciously fines usually come.
Point being both hits aren’t normal sacks or regular contact. I’ve heard the argument with Matt Shaub as well. When a player illegally hits you and you get hurt, whose fault is that?
Say what you will about his skills, smarts, demeanor and his wu-tang clan protect yo neck mentality but be a little more patient with the concussion label.
by killabstingz on Nov 17, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
The real QB controversy is whether to start Fred Jackson or Brian Moorman – both tied for the highest passer ratings on the team @ 158.3
Either wildcat all the time or punt on 3rd and 2nd downs.
wildcat all the time would be such a good idea if we had an oline that was even just bad.
Who has a better RB combo next to miami than buffalo? Jackson, the skilled, smart player, who can clearly throw a little…and lynch, the pounding, bruising back.
And demetrius bell/andy levitre are almost as good as jake long, amirite?
by quantumuprising on Nov 17, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Who has a better RB combo next to miami than buffalo?
Lots of teams….
I’d include all the teams with one really, really, really good RB as being part of a better “combo” too, like St Louis, Jacksonville, Minnesota, Tennessee and San Fran….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I would say...
Baltimore, Minnesota, Tennessee, Miami, NY Jets, NY Giants, Tamp Bay & even San Diego are better or are comparable…
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 17, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Tampa Bay?
I definitely can’t agree on that one!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
even scarier
Moorman and Jackson each have 1 TD pass which is exactly half of what Fitz has produced and 1/6 of Edwards production. break that down to TD’s per game where the QB threw a pass and we find that Moorman and Jackson each have 1 TD per game where they threw the ball. Edwards has .85 TDs per appearance. Fitz has .5 per appearance (although his number should probably be higher since I’m counting the 1 series he came in yesterday.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Brooks Bollinger???
Just a thought, I know he is only playing well at the UFL level, but could it really hurt to bring the guy in????
His numbers (i know its the UFL) show at least good decision making abilities (13TD’s 2INT’s). I know his talent is limited, but he could at least throw a 15 yd pass on target, I’m all for bringing in the competition.
How many years can we go without making the playoffs...eventually the odds go in your favor.........right?!?!?
Why would he come in to a sinking ship? Plus it wouldn’t be until December when the UFL Championship is done.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 18, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
ugh
am i allowed to be critical of jauron for being indecisive here?
i mean, i don’t envy the choice, but I think they’ve got to go with edwards for the rest of the season.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
disagree
Jauron looks at his QB options and sees Edwards- Pretty much guaranteed to throw under 200 yards in every game. Has his receivers furious because he doesn’t throw to them. He’s generally playing bad football, no matter how good you think he looks when he hits his checkdowns early in the game. Starting Edwards doesn’t offer much hope for a win and pretty much makes it look like the team is ready to give up on the season. Fitz doesn’t look much better but at least he hits his wideouts often enough to keep them from bitching. Beyond that, is Vinny Testaverde on the couch somewhere? There’s got to be a free agent floating around that could offer some hope for this situation.
Stop making excuses for Edwards, he is not good (neither is Fitz). These guys are not looking bad because of the line. Ben Roethlisberger has been sacked more times than any other player since he has entered the league, clearly he is not behind a stellar line, yet he has won 2 super bowls.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty much guaranteed to throw under 200 yards in every game.
Fitz didn’t throw for more than 123 yards in any of his starts this year! In his 12 games last year, he threw for 200 yards twice, which happens to be the same amount of times that Edwards has thrown for 200 yards this season. Fitz’s highest yards output of this season is 29 yards lower than Edwards’ lowest. Seriously, have you even looked at their stats? You keep using them as if they don’t make it abundantly obvious that Edwards is better.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
not saying Fitz is good
I’m saying Trent is bad not Fitz is good. I see no point in putting Edwards back in a game. Fitz has had a pretty unspectacular career, but he has at least had 1 game where he put up impressive numbers. I’ll take 1 game over none. Mark my words, Trent Edwards will NEVER have a 300 yard outing in the NFL.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
You have to start one of them. I’m not saying Edwards is good either. I’m saying he is better than Fitz.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I’m saying Edwards and Fitz are about equally awful. But teh wide receivers seem to have lost all faith in Edwards while they were talking up Fitz’s play. The Bills have a 66% winning percentage with Fitz at the helm this year and a 20% winning percentage behind Edwards.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't you just say...
the Bills have a 66% winning percentage when Jairus Byrd intercepts two passes in a game? That was a bigger part of those wins than anything Fitzpatrick did….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
more importantly
Bills are 2-1 with Fitz this season and 1 and 5 with Edwards. W/L is really the only stat that matters.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Well, going by your logic above:
Bills started 4-1. Trent may have gotten his head crushed at the beginning of the 5th game but he was the starter.
Then Fitzpatrick is only 1-1, considering Trent started the Jets game.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
that doesn’t actually follow my logic. I would give credit for the victory to the guy who played the majority of the game. But you can’t say that Edwards won 5 games in a row when he started a game in there that he got knocked out of. he won 4 games then got clobbered and knocked out of the game. however you slice it, trent did not win the Arizona game which he did start.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
But he didn’t lose it, either. He was just… not there. He barely started. So, does that not mean he won five in a row?
Put another way, how does Fitzpatrick get credit for winning five in a row when he sat on the bench for a bunch of weeks behind Edwards at the beginning of this season?
No matter which way you slice it, you’re putting in a double standard. I don’t disagree with your general thesis of “Edwards stinks,” but I think you’re taking it to a weird level.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
no it doesnt.
your argument is cute and all, but there is not a stats guy anywhere that agrees with you.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
whats weird?
given the choice between two players that are pretty much equally unexciting, I’ll take the guy who actually has proven he can have a big game. Trent has never had a big game. period.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
It’s weird that you’re so thoroughly overexcited about one of the most dull decisions the team has ever made. (Or will make, I guess.)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
a QB controversy is still a QB controversy
its why its the most hated two words in football for a coach, people get heated. How does the list go again after Kelly? By my count this is our sixth one since Kelly left.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Yep. You’ve officially lost me.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
couldn't be less excited
sorry to disappoint you.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
really?
the argument is incredibly simple, not sure how you got lost.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
As you present it:
- The Bills are 1-5 with Edwards this season, and 2-1 with Fitzpatrick.
- The Bills were 4-1 to start the ‘08 season with Edwards.
- You say you give credit for a W or L to the QB who played the majority of the game, which is the way it should be done, but then say Edwards didn’t win five in a row because he got knocked out of the Arizona game.
- Then you say that Fitzpatrick won five in a row – 3 to end ‘08 with Cincinnati, then the first two with Buffalo – which again makes sense, but doesn’t fit with your previous assessment of Edwards.
Basically, I’m asking you two questions:
- Why does Fitzpatrick get credit for 5 in a row when Edwards doesn’t? Edwards’ wins weren’t in consecutive games, nor were Fitzpatrick’s.
- Using that same logic, why aren’t the Bills 2-5 with Edwards and 1-1 with Fitzpatrick?
I’m not even disagreeing with you, I just can’t make the logic compute in my head. If you feel like explaining, have at it.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
And I doubt there are many that agree with you!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
W/L is really the only stat that matters
So if a QB started a game against the worst defense in the league and won 3-0 and another QB played the best defense in the league, but his team lost 49-50, then the first QB had the better game? We’re talking about which QB gives the team a better chance to win this coming week, so I don’t see how every single stat isn’t relevant.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
um no
but, if you take two QBs and compare their careers, I’ll take the one that wins more games everytime. Look back at the Doug Flutie Rob Johnson QB controversy, its the perfect example: At the time, Johnson supporters argued that Rob should start because his stats were better than Fluties’. But the one stat that Flutie clearly had the edge on was Wins. When we look back now, which of those two guys was obviously the better QB?
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
but, if you take two QBs and compare their careers, I’ll take the one that wins more games everytime
In this scenario, that’s actually Trent Edwards. You’re taking two wins that Fitz didn’t deserve and assuming that they have any meaning. If you really want to look at which guy wins more games, over the course of their careers, then it’s Edwards. Fitz is 7-11-1 and Edwards is 13-17. Remember, that Losman was a big part of Buffalo’s slide last year and Edwards was actually 7-7 after going 5-5 as a rookie.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
when have I ever made an excuse for edwards?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
if you think Edwards should start this week
then you are making excuses for him somewhere in your rationale even if you aren’t verbalizing them. Edwards has proven himself incompetent on the football field yet you think he is the obvious choice to start? What makes it obvious? the poor QB rating? the losses? the fact that his receivers wanted his head at the end of the game yesterday? The only think that should be obvious is that Trent belongs on the bench.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
nope
sorry bud, but you’re wrong. I’m not making an excuse for him. He’s stuck. I blame him, not the offensive line, because good QB’s at least show flashes when their line stinks (read: Aaron Rodgers), but you start Trent because he’s the only guy at the position with a sliver of a hope of a prayer of being a competent NFL QB. You give him the rest of the year to figure it out. If (i’d argue when) he fails to figure it out after week 17, the Trent Edwards era is over. But don’t act like Fitz has a chance of being a long term answer or that it matters that the offense might be slightly better with him under center f the last 6 weeks.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
why?
somewhere in your head you are making excuses for him. He doesn’t have a sliver of a hope of anything. Explain to me how he does…
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
because he has had stretches of being an efficient quarterback, and he is still young.
im not making excuses- his performance to date doesn’t merit the starting job, but the fact that he is capable of being better does. again if you want to say fitz should start, that’s fine, but don’t argue I’ve made excuses for Trent’s performance because that’s demonstrably false, don’t try to win this argument by shifting it to football.
The argument you started isn’t about football, it’s about what I wrote. And you’re wrong about it.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
What makes it obvious? the poor QB rating? the losses? the fact that his receivers wanted his head at the end of the game yesterday?
lol – seriously?
I think it’s painfully obvious that Trent is a better QB – that’s not saying much – but it is reality.
Never put salt in your eyes
better than what?
I think the painful thing is that Edwards is NOT a better QB than Fitz. Their careers are almost identical in their lack of luster. Right now on this team I’d say you could toss a coin, I saw no drop off in production (can we call it that?) with Fitz in and no improvement when Edwards returned. It doesn’t matter, they both suck. However, based on player comments post game, the players are sick of edwards not even trying to throw the ball. At least Fitz takes a shot no matter how dire the consequences.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
they both are bad – Trent is less bad than Fitzy – that’s my opinion. deal with it
Never put salt in your eyes
they both are bad. neither is any better than the other but Edwards has fallen out of favor with his team mates. Thats my opinion. deal with it. :P
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
everyone take it easy
there is no reason for us to get smart with each other. Our team stinks, its not like we are on the cusp of anything. This is one of the few times we should all be pretty civil.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
i'm not a fan of the player
but great new avatar poz.
his locks look great in that picture.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
its fabio-esque!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Goldilocks, i’d say!
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
im drawing my line in the sand
that I will remain on Poz’s side till the very end!
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Their careers are almost identical in their lack of luster.
That simply is not true. Fitz has one good game in his entire career. He’s a deadful player. I’ve posted it before, but here is Fitz’s game log. Check out how consistent he is, in a bad way:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7426/gamelog;_ylt=AuzcCof6K2WuAsxG5IwanEP.uLYF
At his worst, Buffalo’s offense has gained more yards per play, drive and game than when Fitz has one of the better performances of his career. That is a factual statement, the numbers don’t lie.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
to add on
Fitz career QB rating is 15 points lower, his td/int ratio is significantly worse (Trent’s is 24:25, Fitz is 14:21) his yards per attempt is a yard and a half lower, Trent’s thrown for 40 yards per game more…
they just aren’t equal. sorry pal.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
i think you left an aspect of the "controversy" out Brian
You began to touch on it a bit when you mentioned Jauron being in damage control mode but I think it goes a bit further. From Jauron’s persepctive there is a very real reason to start Fitzpatrick. There is the desperate, desperate hope that if this team finishes 10-6, 9-7, or even 8-8 at this point, Jauron may just keep his job. I think its very possible that Jauron has decided that no matter how much more talent Edwards has, he doesn’t make the throws, release the ball, or have the toughness to win out for him. Aka, Jauron is convinced he can not make a second half run with Trent – he no longer has any faith in him.
Fitzpatrick seems to inspire his receivers to play a bit more like they care as the ball could be headed in their direction at anytime and starting him could at least snap the players who may start to doze out for the rest of the season back to attention by demonstrating that starters are replacable by even very inferior backups. Obviously, Jauron thinks he has a better chance of desperately saving his job with Fitzpatrick then with Edwards. And I for one, can’t blame him.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I think that would make sense if Edwards didn’t just have a game where the offense was better and got his big two WRs more involved than Fitz did when he was in. Evans and TO combined for 7 catches, 135 yards and 2 TDs on sunday. Fitz only topped any of those numbers in Carolina where Evans and TO combined to catch 8 passes for 102 yards and one TD.
I also think that the best chance for Jauron to save his job is by trying to prove that it’s too soon to give up on Edwards. Jauron and Edwards are interconnected and I can’t imagine Jauron saving his job without Edwards providing optimism for 2010. How could Ralph justify bringing Jauron back, even if they rally to finish 8-8 if next year is just going to be a rookie QB battling Ryan Fitzpatrick to start. What would happen if Ralph wanted to fire DJ next year with a 2nd year QB sitting around? You might as well write that QB off as a wasted pick while the new guy goes out to get his players at the position.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
wait a second...
That was Edwards 3rd worst passing performance this season based on yards… Trent throws for 185 yards 1 TD and 1 INT and you are ready to say that things are turning around? The only thing Trent could possibly do to make me think he has a prayer of a chance in the NFL is throw over 300 yards and 2 or more TDs in his next game. It won’t happen though. For comparison’s sake, Peyton Manning has thrown over 300 yards in all but 1 game this year. Tom Brady has had 5 300 yard games this year. Big Ben has had 3 (actually 1 was over 400 yards). Drew Brees has had 5 300 yard games. Kurt Warner has 3. Matt Ryan has 1. Joe Flacco has 3. Jake Delhomme has 2. Jay Cutler has 3. Here are some of the players who have NOT had a 300 yard game this season: Jamarcus Russell, Matt Cassel, Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson and of course Trent.
It’s easy to look this info up, just look for the teams that suck and you’ll find no 300 yard passing games. Personally I’d rather have a QB that makes into the first list than the second. Trent is in pretty elite company in the suck list.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Peyton Manning has thrown over 300 yards in all but 1 game this year
dude – your killing me here. he’s on pace to do something no one has ever done and you’re comparing him to Trent Edwards…. – I think you need a break.
Never put salt in your eyes
dude read the whole post. I didn’t just compare him to manning, every QB in the league that is playing any kind of respectable football has at least 1 300 yarder.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t just compare him to manning, every QB in the league that is playing any kind of respectable football has at least 1 300 yarder.
I did – but I didn’t feel i needed to add anything more once you start comparing Peyton manning to Trent Edwards.
Never put salt in your eyes
why shouldn’t we hold Edwards to the same standard? Good QB’s have big games. Trent doesn’t have big games.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
why shouldn’t we hold Edwards to the same standard?
because Peyton mannings come around maybe 2 or 3 times a decade
If we put up our players against the best of the best for every position then our entire team would be crap….oh wait………
plus – my point wasn’t that we shouldn’t hold Edwards to the same standard as Peyton – it’s an exercise in futility because he’s a crappy QB – there is zero point in doing that. same with Fitzy – no reason to compare them because they are uncomparable
Never put salt in your eyes
to return to my original post, I wasn’t comparing Trent to Peyton Manning, I was comparing Trent to all the QB’s in the league who have thrown 300 yard games this year, as the guy who has thrown the most, I listed Peyton Manning first. Sorry if that threw your head for a spin. You clearly totally missed the point of my post. The list of QB’s with 300 yard games is a list of pretty much all the guys you’d want on your fantasy team as well as most of the other respectable players. The list of QBs without a 300 yard game is a whose who list of losers. Trent is in that list.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
You clearly totally missed the point of my post
no – i just laughed – but i kept on reading for sure – i still can’t get past that – it’s just so funny.
so you said
The only thing Trent could possibly do to make me think he has a prayer of a chance in the NFL is throw over 300 yards and 2 or more TDs in his next game
then you go on to list all 300 yd QBs as if we didn’t knwo that Trent hasn’t done that.
I was saying that I think you need a break – we all know that Trent isn’t what we want him to be – it’s very common knowledge.
I think you just got heated when I was just laughing at you comparing any good QB in this league to Trent – because Trent isn’t good right now. we all know that – it’s very aparant.
Never put salt in your eyes
If Edwards throws for 290 and 2 TDs without an INT, would you not call that a benchmark game?
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
players who have NOT had a 300 yard game this season: Jamarcus Russell, Matt Cassel, Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson and of course Trent
Oh wow. Thats a depressing number.
ESPN revealed an interesting stat. I dont remember exactly the numbers but they said something along the lines of when a QB threw for over 300 yards in a game in 1995 their team won only 40% of the time. In 2009, when a QB throws for 300 yards the team wins 70% of the time.
I dont know what that means but your list seems to back that up.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
thats a pretty valid point kaiser
And your rationale on the dilemma of firing jauron with a 2nd year QB is pretty sound. However, if Jauron is trying to win out – which he clearly has to be at this point – I can’t imagine him being able to move forward with a QB he doesn’t believe in any more. Sure those numbers look nice but Jauron has to be wanting more from his QB after they evade the first pass rusher than to take off running for a yard or two on third and second downs. Edwards would avoid a rusher than immediately put his head down and run. Thats never something you want to see from your QB. Guys like Big Ben, Favre, Flacco, Brady, and Eli make their money by dodging the first rusher than looking back upfield and delivering a strike. If Edwards has lost the confidence to do that, Jauron may have his hands tied in this decision.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I can’t imagine him being able to move forward with a QB he doesn’t believe in any more.
Well said. That’s the only reason he could go with Fitz. If he really thinks that Trent is that broken and Fitz could perform better in the clutch.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
agreed....and as Brian said, if Edwards is losing the team, he can't be an effective leader
Edwards only hope is if he snaps…….meaning he develops an alter ego to Captain Checkdown…like Bruce Wayne does with Batman. Maybe we could glue some little bat ears to his helmet?
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Based on Jaws' comments
last night where he said Quinn needed to be in there “sink or swim”, our situation is no different. Pragmatically, the playoffs are not in our ‘09 future. The thing to do is play the guy, stand behind him and put personal (Jauron’s ) gain or loss aside. With each tick of the clock, it appears more unlikely any action will save DJs job. Despite his coaching shortcomings, I think Jauron is a quality guy. The quality thing to do is play Edwards “sink or swim” We’re already listing badly and taking on water!
.
Quinn
Last night, Gruden was absolutely begging Quinn to go down the field more. And when he did towards the end, it was passes 15 yards out of bounds. It was pretty humorous…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
That Jauron might switch to Fitzpatrick shows either or both of: a. his lack of control of the team; b. lack of offensive aptitude (which is offensive!). Jauron coaches scared. I think it’s funny that anyone thinks that he would play Fitzpatrick because it would give him a better chance to win.
Even with Edwards playing poorly he’s still way ahead of Fitzpatrick. If the Jets or Panthers handed the ball to Edwards as much as they did to Fitzpatrick those games wouldn’t have been close. That seems to be the only ‘argument’ in favor of Fitzpatrick, because he’s clearly not more productive.
I know there’s no long term benefit to firing Jauron before the season ends, but I hate that I think there’s a chance he might be retained if they show any progress the rest of the way (of course, finishing with NE, Indy, and Atl pretty much squashes that). So when I watch games and the Bills play well I’m thinking ‘crap, Jauron has a better chance to stick around’ and when they play poorly, while I’m not happy about it, at least Jauron is one step closer out the door. And I hate that I feel this way when watch a game.
No options
I don’t think either Edwards or Fitzy are better than back-ups, maybe capable with a good OL. But Edwards is our starter. That said, I think something happened on Sunday that really shook the team’s confidence in Edwards (as I’ve been arguing on another thread).
What’s scary is that the chances are pretty good he’s our starter next year, too.
how do you figure?
I’d say the chances are close to zero that Trent will be the starter next year. His contract is up and he has pretty much sucked, I doubt he’ll even be on the Bills next season. especially considering the likelihood of a coaching change and the fact that the 2010 draft has 10-11 potential NFL QB’s.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Jauron could inspire the troops to a 7-9 finish, and the whole mess is blamed on injuries. After sucking for a whole season, management will assume that the O-line will suck less next year based upon the theory that young players are bound to get better. With Jauron back, Trent gets another shot and his only real competition is against some rookie QB that they draft next year.
Fortunately this worst case scenario is unlikely. The Bills will finish no better than 5-11 and Ralph will be forced to finally make some significant changes.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
on the injury front
It seems pretty obvious to me that the Buffalo Bills are not in football shape compared to other teams. I think this is a result of poor conditioning by the strength and conditioning coach and the fact that Jauron runs so many no-pads practices. The players always say they love Jauron and then go on to say how he lets them take days off if they are veterans and how they run these nice low impact practices.
by Polish Lover on Nov 17, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Unless we skipped a calendar year Edwards is under contract through 2010.
by twoeightnine on Nov 17, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
thanks....I thought I was losing my mind :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
The best thing that could happen.
First a descision hasn’t been made, yet. Secondly, Trent is our starting QB and has failed to improve or diversify his play throughout the season. Ryan was brought in as our back up with the responsibility to keep us in a position to win games that Trent wasn’t able to go. Ryan has demonstrated that.
There is the other ten players on the field during those offensive plays. A couch has to consider this whether he is fighting for his job or not. What ever it takes to keep the players together the coach has the responsiblity of the whole team.
What ever does happen at QB, the best thing that could happen is clearly defining who stays and who goes going into next year. Ryan has a contract to defend and so far he has done it. Trent has not improved. Do we go for two new QB’s next year or just one. If Ryan does play, lets hope it is good enough so we only have to shop for one QB.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
There are many street free agents out there. I'm just sayin
Rrrawrrrr, rrrawrrr like a dungeon dragon-Busta Ryhmes
This is like asking me.......if I'd rather have
A Cystoscopy or a Colonoscopy.
Either way…….I lose….and its gonna be painful.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 17, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions
you just made me look up cystoscopy.
unforgivable.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Would you like to share what you found with the class?
:-)
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 17, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
JP
i’d consider giving him an extended try out the end of the season. he knows the town, the guys, the offense…. incredible chemistry with evans… he’s in the UFL championship game… oh, and wasn’t part of the reason for him leaving so that we wouldn’t have a quarterback controversy? just shows how far edwards has regressed really. controversy with losman, a first round pick… to a controversy with fitzpatrick
The fates of Jauron and Edwards are indeed interconnected. Fitz is not a compelling option, so barring a complete mental collapse, Jauron should go with Trent as his official starting QB the rest of the way.
However, since the Bills are not in the playoff hunt, what I would like to see is Trent spelled to distance himself mentally and physically from his latest concussion, as well as to evaluate other players. If Hamdan is a QB on the roster, why not give him a shot in a real game, if nothing else to find out the level of drop off? I’d rest Trent the next two games and split the starts with Fitz and Hamdan. Jauron could always say that he rushed Trent back too soon.
With the status of the offensive line reaching catastrophic, it would be irresponsible putting the concussion-prone young man under center. Give Kugler a couple of weeks to cobble up a merely bad line before bringing in Trent.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
As pathetic as this offense has been I’d actually like to see Hamdan in the starting line up. I’d also like to see Jenkins on the inactive list and put Hardy and Parrish on the field. Line up with 5 WR’s and throw quick slants and crosses over the middle.
Jauron needs to stop being such a pansy when it comes to play calling. We’ve heard it many times this year from opposing defenders that it’s easy to defend against us and that they knew what was coming.
Throw something different at them for a change and see what happens…what else do they have to lose???
a joke
this shouldn’t be a question. if you are trying to field the best team you put trent edwards out there.
Injury Riddled.......
This team has not really given anyone a fair shot due to the injury bug year in and year out. Which leads me to team depth.
Injuries are key to any teams success but this team has had so many. Too many to come back from in recent history. This is not an excuse but it leads me to ask what if? Would this team be this bad without the injuries? I think no way.
No way Trent or anyother top performer is this bad with a healthy team IMO.
This may sound like an excuse and it is but there will never be continuity when you are constantly plugging players in due to injury. Not the amount of players we have had to plug in anyways…
i agree with you
we’ve lost a majority of starters AND their backups to injury at one point or another this year .At some point depth isnt hte issue and its why the heck are we so unluckyily injured. I mean, Bell is down now too? That makes Bell ,Meredith, Butler, Scott all out at one point on the line. McGee, Mckelvin, Whitner, Byrd, Scott, Youboty in the secondary, Poz, Kawika, Buggs, DiGiorgio, Ellison at LB. Dont even get me started at tight end.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
that seems to be the excuse every year… im sick of it. its not this year alone.. something isn’t right and maybe it has to do with injuries but watching this team for the past four years you can tell that its not together regardless of who is out there… and it’d also be nice to have competent back-ups… every other team gets injuries too and their season isn’t over… case in point: matt cassell
in all fairness
matt cassel was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker and playing behind a stout offensive line and a great defense. They also missed the playoffs.
We aren’t just hurt. We are down to the bare bones. Last game we had NO reserve linemen left! Was Big Marcus gonna block if someone else went down?
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Peyton.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
exactly. other teams get hurt too but they carry on through it. Polian is good. and he brings in coaches who are capable of plugging anyone in at receiver or on defense! they can coach and they can draft and that is why despite injuries they have been a winning team for years and years and years and why buffalo hasn’t had a whiff of the playoffs in a decade.
by dav630 on Nov 17, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Put Peyton in
behind what the Bills call an offensive line, and I’m sure he’d be getting killed too! No more 300+ yd games as mentioned at length earlier.
I’m sure his remarks would be something on the line of: “Man that offensive line is really offensive”!
Or plug in Brady, Brees, Rivers or whoever, it just will not matter. Until this OL gets it, I don’t care who’s behind center, they will not succeed.
Season Ticket Holder Sec: 312, Row: 15
"There's NO place like home when it's the Big Tree Inn"
i dont agree at all
Peyton would get the ball to lee and to. He may not win as much but i bet you he produces on this team.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Yeah, I agree, too. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. If you want to be a dominant offense, you have to be dominant at QB AND up front. Given the choice between the two, you always always always take the QB first if you can get him.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
This is PARTIALLY true, but Edwards has that thing about holding onto the ball for hours too long while Payton and Brady actually make the throws quickly and decisively.
He’d surely be getting knocked around more, but it wouldn’t be nearly this bad.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
Peyton most definitely. He had 1 reliable target that night: Reggie Wayne. Collie and Garcon (another drink please) were playing poorly, and Clark was taken out of the game.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
how many competent back ups must this team have???
This is a Team plays Team Defense. Which is why the plug and play usually works. There are no real show stoppers here. As a Unit they play well. This year they only play well for 50 mins a game (taking the last ten mins off of each game). It is hard to fault them as the do “play hard” but by games end they are beaten.
Every back up gets an opportunity and on this team the 4th back up has gotten an opportunity. If we ever start our day one starters in week 17 then we are 10-6 or 11-5 as most hope for.
We need to stop getting these guys with big strong muscles and candy can bones or stop play inexperienced players who are not ready (ie the line we started this year) as injuries mostly happen when you are not sure what the other guy is doing. It is like running a crossing route with receivers who never play together….what happens? they run into eachother.
Continuity is something they lack and this falls on irrational decisions by the coach’s to throw something at the problem rather than fixing it properly. This is something the organization has done in the last decade, hence the feeling that we will never have a solid contender…
by MikeEverett08 on Nov 17, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
i have to say it.
part of me wonders if jauron, consciously or unconsciously, looks for this excuse…. why put crowell on IR last year? he was going to be out like three weeks…. was mckelvin really that badly hurt? that you deprive him of the entire season?
every year there is a problem, a controversy of some sort. im used to playing the role of apologist but when it happens for ten years the individual excuses fall away and it means that the organization isn’t getting the job done.
Completely agree....
Lets start putting the players we have in the right position to succeed. That is why we need a leader at the helm and not a guy everyone plays well for…
by MikeEverett08 on Nov 17, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
this whole
post and topic makes me want to time travel in the future 5 years, see where the Bills are at and if it’s even worth it anymore! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Serenity NOW!
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
Thank you Frank
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 17, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
sorry
Ralph believes one way or another that the world ends in 2012
That may be because he’s projected to be dead by then.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
I disagree. Once you hit 91, 94 isn’t any different…or so i’d imagine.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget to see what the winning lottery numbers are :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Biff Tannen agrees
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
He will probably be our next HC
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
I'm afraid that I wouldn't want to see where the Bills are in 5 years
where being the key word
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Brian...
how in the world are you supposed to get excited when writing about this team the rest of the season? I don’t envy your position right now.
Whoever’s playing QB (it should be Edwards, in my opinion), i just want to see them throw it deep. Think about Edwards 2 best passes: deep passes to Owens. He really does have an arm, but he doesn’t take advantage of his skill set.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions
I’m looking forward to Thursdays over the next seven weeks.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I still look forward to Sundays
As long as I’m watching teams that aren’t the Bills
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
How great did it feel watching the Colts-Pats game? It showed me again why the game is so great.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 17, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Made me sad, actually
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Front page, folks: NFL.com report has Fitzpatrick as the Week 11 starter.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 17, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions
at least someone is being held accountable for their actions
itd be nice if the other players were too.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Sign the top LFL QB
At least we can look good, looking bad!
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