Shanahan, Bills have "excellent meeting"
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 12:49 PM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintIt's been the topic of conversation for roughly a week in Buffalo Bills country, and now, we have the first details of the event itself. Bills COO Russ Brandon met for seven hours with former Denver head coach Mike Shanahan late Monday into early Tuesday, and according to the source of the ESPN report detailing the event, the meeting went well. The report describes Brandon's presentation to Shanahan as "persuasive."
Shanahan was quoted in the report. "We had an excellent meeting," Shanahan said Wednesday. "I was really impressed with Russ Brandon and everything he had to say. We're going to stay in touch and see what develops."
Adam Schefter also notes that both sides have come to a mutual understanding that each side is going to take its time in making its respective decisions. Buffalo is said to be waiting until January 2010 to hire its next head coach, while Shanahan - one of the most prominent coaching names on the market - is sure to draw interest for several more coaching vacancies as they become available over the next two months.
Buffalo has been linked to several other big-name coaches, including former Pittsburgh boss Bill Cowher, while Shanahan has been linked to potential coaching jobs in Chicago and Washington.
The Bills are going about this business intelligently for now. There's no reason to rush, and attempting to rush Shanahan - clearly the team's top target - would probably have disastrous consequences. Buffalo is, however, willing to pay for his services; a source close to Shanahan, quoted in an NFL.com report, suggested a 5-year, $50 million deal with a piece of the franchise might do the trick.
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So you're saying there is a chance...
Cowher – NO Holmgren – NO Shottenheimer – NO Shannahan – YES!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Well, I think that's about as good as we could expect
No immediate rejection, but promise for the future. I don’t know why so many here have been dismissive of getting a “big name” coach (I’d rather call them ‘proven winners’). Could it be just a premptive reaction on our parts as Bills fans to deal with likely rejection?
Yes, Buffalo needs a GM, put my goodness, don’t discount a good head coach. It just so happens that the BEST coaches out there want more power than the typical joe coach. In an ideal world I would love to have a strong GM and proven head coach, but this is not an ideal world. The Shanahans, Cowhers, etc. won’t come if they don’t have enough decision making powers.
I like what Buffalo’s doing. Go after the big dogs and if it doesn’t work, take a step back and go over a GM (who can then pick a coach).
John I.
by jri111 on Nov 25, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
Shanahan, for instance, already has his defensive coordinator lined up. Bob Slowik, who ran Shanahan’s defense in Denver and is prepared to install a 3-4 scheme wherever he and Shanahan land;
You had me at 3-4. I am all in for Shanny :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Who's Shanny's choice of DC?
I’ve read it somewhere but I forget who he has already picked as his DC….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 25, 2009 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bob Slowik. It’s right in the quote Joe put up.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Never been sold on the 3-4 as a cure all
Cleveland, KC, SF, Arizona, Jacksonville, and Miami are all in the lower half of the league in team defense.
San Diego, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Denver, NE, Green Bay, and the Jets are in the top half.
Dallas is 16th at the mid point.
Pittsburgh and the Giants have the top 2 defenses not because of any scheme they run, but because of personnel and coaching.
Agreed. A switch to the 3-4 would likely require drafting at DT with our top pick, as Stroud and Williams aren’t gigantic run-stuffers. Also, Maybin would have to switch to LB. He’s way too small to play DE in a 3-4.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 25, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
All good things IMO
In the conditions the Bills play in, I think the 3-4 is a better fit.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Potentially
We’d need to make a UFA run at Ryan Pickett or Casey Hampton, and then maybe trade back into the second half of the first round to get Terrence Cody. Without a NT, the 3-4 isn’t that effective.
Schobel and Maybin would make excellent 30 front OLB’s. Posluszny and Mitchell don’t take on blocks well enough to be super effective as ILB’s, putting even more premium on the NT.
Stroud as a 30 Front DE would be fantastic, IMO. Spencer Johnson might be a good fit at DE. But Williams is miscast, almost all of our LB’s would have to go, and we’d need a starting DE and a couple back-ups.
So, we’d need two NT’s, a couple DE’s, and a bunch of LB’s. Add that to the need list for OT’s, a G, a C (pending Wood’s recovery) and a QB.
That’s a lot of need generated by scheme switch.
I’d rather stick to the 4-3 and play it different from the Tampa 2. I’d rather switch to a 46 version of the 4-3. We’d need another big DT and a OLB similar to James Posey. That’s a smaller bill than the wholesale switch. Get Ryan Pickett and Scott Fujita in UFA, and the scheme could work.
Also something to consider: the defense looked really good vs. the Jags. Very aggressive. It got me thinking: I wonder if Jauron was holding back Fewell’s aggressiveness to some degree? Jauron is conservative by nature, and the defense showed a bunch of different looks we haven’t seen most of the year (Schobel lining up at 5DE and OLB on passing downs, 30 Front on some passing downs in combination with a nickel package.
This defense might not be so bad. : )
Ryan Pickett spurned Buffalo in 2006. He won’t play here.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 26, 2009 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
I remember the Bills going after Pickett...
… but did say no for reasons other than money? I don’t remember the details, and thought that Green Bay offered him more money.
I thought he didn't even want to visit here
maybe not….
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Nice post
I am not sure I agree with your statement that Poz and Mitchell will be less effective in the 3-4. My biggest problem with the Bills current 4-3 is that it is in limbo between the Tampon 2 and the 46 you touched on. I really like the “Lebeau zone blitz” (see link below) defense because of its aggressive style of play, so that is the type of 34 I would like to see here because your LBs have to be able to blitz. I think we are as close to having the personnel for that as the 46.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/7/481970/mhr-university-modern-3-4
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Agree to a point
I really like the Tampa 2, but I also really like the 46 4-3 Defense that we ran under Gregg Williams and Jerry Gray/Dick LeBeau. I like that version of the 46 way better than any 3-4. The 46 that Willams/Gray ran was schematically similar to a 3-4 in a couple ways. It’s a blend of the 46 and the 3-4. Mike Zimmer is running something similar in Cincinnati (mixing his own 4-3 experience with what he learned under Bill Parcells), and Williams is running it in New Orleans.
This is a very basic description o the defense, and it obviously had a lot of variations.
In it’s base form:
DT’s (Adams and Williams) played two gap over both guards.
Strongside DE (Kelsay/Denney) played outside shoulder of the strongside OT.
Weakside DE (Schobel) played wide of the weakside OT.
SLB (Posey) played wide/over the TE.
MLB and WLB (Fletcher and Spikes) played over the Guards behind the DT’s, very simlar to having 3-4 ILB’s.
The benefits of this defense:
Really hard to run on if the DT’s are space eaters. Forces the offense to deal with 2 NT’s. Running between the tackles becomes extremely difficult for the offense.
Stacks the strong side of the offense.
Gets the same zone blitzing effect as a 3-4, having LB’s playing like ILB’s, an 3-4-style OLB, and a weakside DE that can easily drop into coverage due to positioning.
With two big DT’s, the MLB and WLB are freed up to make a ton of plays, and don’t have to take on a ton of interior linemen blocking them.
Very phyiscal defense with lots of big people is the middle, but still maintains a great deal of athleticism on the edges.
Weaknesses:
A running back like Brian Westbrook can really tear this defense apart, as the WLB and SS are not called to be as athletic as those in a conventional 4-3 or Tampa 2.
Same weakness to a pass catching TE as the 3-4.
Weakside running plays can have great success.
Needs a great SLB that can both drop into coverage and rush. If the SLB can’t drop into coverage effectively, then he’s only a rusher and takes away from the effectiveness of the defense.
…..
All in all, I really like this defense a lot. If we get a big DT to rotate with Stroud and Williams, we’d be close to having the right personnel for this style of defense.
This is all dependant on the new HC and DC, obviously, as the scheme doesn’t trump the need to set up a functional front office and coaching staff.
agreed, both formations sound very close each other
The question then becomes, which system would the Bills next HC want to run. If Shanny or Cowher is the pick, I think we will be switching to a 3-4.
Given the success LeBeau had with the 4-3 here, why would be switch to the 3-4 unless he thought it was a better system for the type of defensive schemes he wanted to run? I would love to see a copy of that defense here in Buffalo, but the type of 4-3 you describe would certainly be an improvement over what we have had recently.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
4-3 vs. 3-4
LeBeau was an addition to the staff, and the defense already had the 46 in place. So he added in his zone blitzing, creating a stronger defense.
But LeBeau’s preferred defense has always been a 3-4.
I will always prefer a 4-3 defense over a 3-4. Just personal preference. I like the advantages of a 4 man front over a 3 man front. I don’t dislike the 3-4, though, I just believe that a well run 4-3 with similar personnel can be equally effective as a 3-4. The Giants over the past few seasons, and the Bengals this season, are great examples.
And I certainly don’t believe that any scheme is inherently better than another. That’s why I dispute that a 3-4 is better than a 4-3, or vice versa. I prefer the 4-3, though.
If Shanahan comes, he’s bringing Bob Slowik and we switch to a 3-4. The question at that point is how we switch personnel and add personnel to make it work.
For me, I’d rather have a well run front office and coaching staff over any scheme. But we have to realize that the personnel we currently have don’t all translate well to a 3-4, so if Shanahan comes and we make the switch, it’ll take a couple season to acquire the right personnel.
the front office/coaching staff is the #1 priority
I think we are in for at least a two year rebuilding process before the Bills can be legitimate playoff contenders no matter what.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
No need to draft high at NT
Firstly Gabe Watson is a FA, and he’d be a decent pickup having experience in a 3-4 defence in Arizona.
There are also some interesting lower round NT’s we could look at like Dan Williams of Tennessee (6ft3, 311lbs), Ekom Udofia of Stanford (6ft2, 311lbs) Torell Troup of Central Florida (6ft3, 320lbs) and Trey Bryant of Baylor (6ft3, 315lbs)
Of more importance would be a 3-4 end so we’d need to probably look at Arthur Jones of Syracuse or Jared Odrick of Penn St
Watson is only a UFA if a new CBA is passed...
… if things stay the same, with the uncapped year, the only NT’s available / viable are Franklin and Pickett.
Dan Williams is big but not a two-gap NT. The other three you listed would need some development time, similar to Ronald Fields, who is decent but needed development time. But we need a NT next year if we go to a 3-4, not in two or three years.
3-4 DE is easier to fill and a lesser need than NT in a 3-4.
SF plans to franchise tag Franklin
I believe
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
The Cards play some 3-4 at times
why would they let Watson go anyhow?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Also
I really like the Tampa 2 as a defense. Most fans here don’t, but it’s not the scheme, it’s the personnel. We don’t have good fits for the system.
Stroud isn’t a penetrating pass-rusher like he used to be, which the scheme calls for and really needs to be effective. Kelsay plays hard and well most of the time, but doesn’t have the burst or athleticism for the scheme. Mitchell and Posluszny aren’t the elite 230-pound athletes needed for MLB and WLB.
If the Martz rumors come to be reality, and he keeps Fewell, I really, REALLY hope that Arizona doesn’t tag Karlos Dansby. Arizona’s got some bigger contracts coming up, so they might let him go. Perfect Tampa 2 LB with his movement skills. Plus, he’s 6-4, 250-lbs.
The T2 is based on undersized, speedy players
This type of defense is almost impossible to execute effectively outside in poor weather conditions that negate speed. I am tired of our players getting pushed around in our house late in the season. Given the conditions they play in, the Bills should be a power running team with one of the biggest front 3 DLs in the league, built for the playoffs so to speak.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Somewhat Agree
Chicago did/does very well with their Tampa 2. It’s personnel. Any scheme you run is going to be pretty good if you’ve got Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs, and Tommie Harris.
Indianapolis outmsucled Baltimore in the 2006 playoffs, in Baltimore, in January.
Tampa Bay beat Philadelphia in January, in Philadelphia, on its way to their Super Bowl win.
Pittsburgh ran the Tampa 2 in the 70’s.
Personnel dictates defensive greatness, IMO.
That said, Buffalo’s most dominant defenses in recent times have been our late ’90’s 3-4 built around Ted Washington and Pat Williams, and the 46 built around Williams and Sam Adams. I think a northern outdoor team has a better chance at having a great defense if it’s centered around a big, phyiscal interior DL.
If we go get a bunch of great/good players, then this is all moot, as any scheme that’s reasonably solid will work.
If the Bills turn to a 3-4
Maybin then could be turned loose as a rush OLB. Not too many OLs could catch him with a running start.
3-4 OLB's don't get the running start that you think they do
The 30 Front pass rushers, like Harrison and Ware, line up on the LOS almost all the time. Maybin would get no more of a start than he does now.
What he would get is a 290 DE lined up over the OT to his side. That makes the blocking scheme harder to execute, and he would see blocking from a lot of backs and TE’s on 1st and 2nd downs.
Also agreed, and since when was Shanahan’s defense in Denver anything to write home about? His offense was what won games.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get how people are actually complaining about the Bills making a huge push to get these guys. Who cares if we throw half the city’s money at them, because if they bite, we’ll have one of the best HC’s in the league and be on our way to greatness again. It’s not like we’ve had a lot of success around here lately.. This city and these fans sure are mecurial, but I ask that’s a matter of course, when our team has sucked as badly as it has the last ten years…
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 25, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions
Who cares if we throw half the city’s money at them, because if they bite, we’ll have one of the best HC’s in the league and be on our way to greatness again.
LOL. I ain’t complaining about what they’re doing, but I feel the need to point out that bringing in a proven head coach guarantees ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with respect to possible greatness.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but does a no-name HC, who has done zero in this league, or an Eric DeCosta, who reminds me a lot of George Kokinis, who was clueless in Cleveland??
I get the “I want a GM over a powerful HC”-argument, but Shanahan, to me, is still by far the best option for us.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 25, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
First of all, Kokinis got a terrible rep because the Browns are idiotic. They hired Mangini first, then brought in Kokinis as the GM because those two are friends. That’s the most bass-ackwards way to operate a business imaginable, and it backfired on them. Don’t mistake their awful season for ineptitude on Kokinis’ part, because that was Mangini’s ship, and Mangini blew cannon balls through the side of it in March and April.
I look at DeCosta and Kokinis in almost equal light.
I’m not going to argue you on the “which route is better” argument, because there are legitimate points on both sides. I’m definitely down for Shanahan coming to Buffalo. But let’s not pretend that Mike’s been sitting on magic fairy dust for a year that will turn the Bills into a Super Bowl contender now or ever. That’s all I was saying.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget Shanahan is 24-24 in his last 48 games.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
THIS-------->
Don’t forget Shanahan is 24-24 in his last 48 games.
by Michael_Necci on Nov 25, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
You find me a better candidate and I salute your point
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 25, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Well Marty Schottenheimer was 14-2 in his last 16 games. Bill Cowher won a Super Bowl is his second-to-last season in Pittsburgh. What are you loking for?
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I know i’m looking for Bill Cowher and Eric DeCosta. =)
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 25, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Well, of you’ve followed the news, you would knows he’s not an option and Cowher never made any ‘GM-moves’ like Shanahan.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 26, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
They aren’t options at this time. I didn’t know you were only looking for HC-GM candidates. Because I think both would make excellent coaches with the right GMs here.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 26, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
Let's hope Shanahan goes elsewhere
Is someone who only managed to win one divisional title in his last ten years of coaching (i.e., after Elways retired) and sneak into the playoffs as a wildcard three times really worth a guaranteed $50 million over five years and complete control of the franchise (which he is likely to screw up as badly as he did Denver’s)? To me this sounds like the second coming of Tom Donahoe, only much more expensive and devastating to the team.
How can people be negative about this?!?!
I’m utterly flabbergasted by the people, the Bills-fans, who actually are worried about this move. We have NO reason to worry, because there’s no way in HELL this will worse than what it was in the past. That might not be a very good argument in itself for calming down, but I still firmly believe that Mike Shanahan would be the right guy for this franchise. A guy, who knows a thing or two about turning things around for a franchise, and a guy, who knows how to create dynasty offenses (I’m especially intrigued by the possibility of him bringing his zone-blocking system with him, and I’m not talking about “the mediocrity of Sean Kugler”-zone blocking, we’re experiecing right now, but a zone blocking system where the O-linemen create consistent holes for RB’s to run through).
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 25, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
How does he know something about turning around a franchise when he was at one franchise for almost his entire coaching career and ultimately left it in very bad shape? And that was hardly a “dynasty offense” he had at Denver after Elway left (not to mention the off-again, on-again defense). I’m negative because I’m willing to look at the facts and not be blinded by celebrity.
I’m negative because I’m willing to look at the facts and not be blinded by celebrity.
Actually, that’s called “objective,” not “negative.” I think you’re underselling Shanahan a bit. He’s a good coach.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I might be, but I’ve done a lot of hiring in my career and have always looked to see if the person was on an upward or downward trajectory. If you look at Shanahan’s record the arrow is unmistakably pointing downward (to the point where his last five years in Denver could only be called “mediocre”). A change of scenery could be exactly what he needs, but that trend really bothers me — along with his pricetag.
I think Shanahan’s downward trend has to do with his unwillingness to hire a better DC – sort of like Jauron’s inability to get a good OC.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you....
which makes me very nervous about the Shanahan hire.
I want the Bills to hire Shanahan due to his offensive mind and talent evaluation on offense (which the Bills lack soarly at this point), but if he is fixed on using his old and mediocre DC, then I don’t think the whole thing works.
Bills fan half way around the world
Shanny is not perfect, but
he is a hell of a lot better than what we have had or what we might end up with.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
I guess that’s where we differ — I believe we could “end up with” someone a lot better than Shanahan if we hire a solid GM first and then let him find us a smart, ambitious, hungry young coach. With Shanahan you are literally betting the entire future of the franchise. He may turn out ok, but it seems to me a foolish bet given the high stakes.
same argument can be made if we go with the GM and young coach plan
I am not against it. I really just depends upon who we can get to sign here. Both ways can work. Both ways can fail.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
smart, ambitious, hungry young coach
Oh, like Mike Mularkey?
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 25, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gregg Williams…..
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Tom Donahoe
was a big reel in at the time……he was supposed to be exactly what you’re describing.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Donahoe was a huge addition at the time. If Buffalo didn’t give him the money and power that they did, he would have been somebody else’s GM within weeks. I find it kind of amusing that people talk about Donahoe as if he was some terrible hire, while the guy he built those great Steelers teams with (Cowher) is viewed as somebody we could trust to put together a great roster here.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 25, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The fact that Donahoe had been fired by the Steelers after a dispute with Cowher should have been a red light that the Bills paid more attention to back in 2000. If he was at odds with Cowher we should have known better than to hire him.
It was a power struggle between the two of them to the point where Pittsburgh had no choice, but to fire one of them and they certainly weren’t going to fire Cowher. The two of them never had one specific dispute, they both wanted final say over free agents and draft picks.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
i find it more amusing
that some people question whether Shanahan or Cowher are worth bringing in because a lot of the credit should go to the GMs who helped build those teams or the QBs and then bash Donahoe as a terrible GM, likely unaware of his connection with Cowher
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
he left them in bad shape?
how do you figure?
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Look at their defense this year, which was basically inherited from Shanahan. Yes, Denver beat up on some weak opponents to start the year but they have been on a skid ever since. That’s largely the team Shanahan left behind.
But with Mike Nolan coaching it….
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
the team he left in "bad shape" already has 3 more wins than we do this year.
if we’re blaming coaches for the shape of their roster after they left, how is holmgren even in the discussion? Seattle is horrible…
and further, god i wish our previous head coach had left us as a 6-4 team.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
Denver’s defense is giving up fewer points per game than the Steelers are. They changed schemes and completely overhauled the personel over the offseason too. If you want to rip Shanahan for the way he left Denver, then use the defensive numbers from the last few seasons. They gave up an abysmal 28 points per game last year.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Shanahan left the Broncos with:
A good young QB in Cutler
The best young OT’s in the league, and a very good OL.
Great young receivers in Marshall, Royal, Scheffler; combined with Stokely and Graham, and that’s pretty good.
Champ Bailey, DJ Williams, and Elvis Dumervil on defense.
I’d take that over what we have on the current Buffalo team.
Additionally, Denver first day (rounds 1-2) draft history, with Shanahan as coach:
Hits: John Mobley, Trevor Price, Al Wilson, Mnotae Reagor, Deltha O’Neal (with Cincy), Ian Gold, Clinton Portis, DJ Williams, Darrent Williams, Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler, Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal.
Missed on: Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, Jarvis Moss
Again, not bad.
To address you’re point that Shanahan’s career is pointing/trending downward, I disagree:
With Denver:
1995: 8-8
1996: 13-3
1997: 12-4
1998: 14-2
1999: 6-10 (first season without Elway)
2000: 11-5 (with the duo of Gus Frerotte and Brian Griese)
2001: 8-8
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6 (Jake Plummer)
2004: 10-6 (Jake Plummer)
2005: 13-3 (Jake Plummer)
2006: 9-7
2007: 7-9
2008: 8-8
The stats tell me that, with a great QB, Shanahan wins Super Bowls. With average QB’s, he makes the playoffs. With less than average QB’s, he’s hit-or-miss making the playoffs.
His last three seasons: 2006 was Plummer’s last season, where he transitioned from average to below-average starter, and the record showed. 2007-2008 featured a young Cutler, who made more mistakes than most QB’s in Shanahan’s system.
Mostly, the personnel that Denver had on offense and defense surrounding those QB’s remained roughly the same or similar. It would take a while to list out, but it’s available at Pro-Football-Reference.com.
This might make sense to some, and none to others. But the way his career has gone, it almost seems Lindy Ruff-ish to me. Two good runs depending on talent, and some “close but no cigar” years in between those runs.
Somewhat
But I think almost all good coaches (except Belichick) have careers like this. Cowher had some bad seasons in between some good runs. So has Jeff Fisher.
It’s really hard to stay on top, IMO. Few franchises outside of baseball can stay on top consistently without some dips. I’ll gladly take Lindy Ruff (or someone like him) who just misses the playoffs in down years.
So, if Shanahan’s trend continues, and he’s hired by the Bills, the team theoretically would miss the playoffs by a game or two in down cycles, but still remain competitive for the playoffs throughout each season.
I think
the up and down cycles happen to every NFL team (except maybe NE) for 2 main reasons:
1)Lower draft picks — if you continue to be playing well for a couple of years, then you’ll continue to be picking later than others. Unless you can do Belichick-type of moves to consistently buy low and sell high.
2)Schedule — Aside from own divisional play and playing against the specific division for the season, the NFL gives softer schedules for teams will lesser records the previous season and vice-versa. This is NFL’s way of creating parity. This is not exact science, but statistically within a couple of years it should make a difference. Which is exactly what we observe in the NFL.
So I agree with you that there’s nothing wrong with Shanahan’s record/trend.
Bills fan half way around the world
The stats tell me that, with a great QB, Shanahan wins Super Bowls. With average QB’s, he makes the playoffs. With less than average QB’s, he’s hit-or-miss making the playoffs.
Isn’t that the case with pretty much very team in the NFL?
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
OK...then we are on the same page :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
thank you Der Jaeger!
I’m sick of people saying he hasnt done anything without Elway. Its just not true at all.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Very typical of 2000's Bills
They get your hopes up, then crush them. Given Buffalo’s history, all of this Shanahan talk, along with Gruden, Cowher, etc etc is going to get the fans hopes up, then they’ll hire a nobody and spin it like they did the right thing, when we all know it’ll just keep the 7-9 train going.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
Plenty of time to have our dreams crushed in mid-January :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
this is great news
i think we get Shanahan. I thought it before this “Excellent meeting” quote and I think it now. I think Ralph threw a fantastic offer in his face. He’s only taking his time becuase it makes sense for both teams. WE’ve piqued his interest. Its coming fellas
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Im pretty sure Russ did all the work.........not Ralph.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 25, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
yep.....this is the area where Russ excells....selling ice to an Eskimo
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
selling ice to an Eskimo
Hmmm….not sure about that analogy Joe. That would make Bills fans the “Eskimo” and the Bills craptacular performance for the past 10 seasons the “ice.” That’s really not fair to ice at all. Although extremely simplistic, ice is pretty fantastic – its crucial piece to my scotch on the rocks. The Bills teams of the past decade are no where near as cool as ice.
I think a more suitable analogy would be “Russ could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves.” The ketchup popsicle being the Bills teams and “the woman in white gloves” would be Bills fans. We’re certainly gonna be screwed when that thing melts (and it usually starts to melt in October), but we still gladly make the purchase.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
by thatguy34 on Nov 25, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL!!!!! Thanks for the laugh :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Is said woman wearing that awful away jersey or the nearly-as-awful home jersey?
If it’s the away, she can be sold anything. If it’s the home, she knows there’s little that can be done to avoid the situation right now.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 25, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
You think the Away jersey is worse than the home? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it that way around before.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 25, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Rec’d. Good analogy!
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
A ketchup popsicle Richard?
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
Marketing guru at work… he sold the Bills to the masses now it’s time to sell it to Shanny. :-)
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Russ at work...
This is one thing that I am glad to hear and read about Russ leading the charge on this one. Not saying that he is the best evaluator of coaching and talent out there… but if there is someone that can really “sell” Buffalo and the Bills strategic plan (if there is such a thing?) to a top prospect like Shanahan, I am glad that we have Russ doing it and not Ralph doing it.
Now whether or not DeCosta or some other GM talent couldn’t do a better job of evaluating coaching talent for our franchise, I don’t know… I do know that Russ probably knows best what needs to be done and how to sell it to someone to get it done. Now, evaluating player talent (another critical GM duty) should not be done by Russ and we can leave that to Shanny or DeCosta or whoever.
Earn your paycheck there Russ and bring in a winner to Buffalo. We certainly need it!
oh i dont know about that
Im sure Russ did all the hard, laboring stuff but I bet Ralph designs giving Shanahan a piece of the team and how much money hes willing to offer plus what incentives. It is his team after all. He wouldn’t let anything in there unless he wanted it.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Or, Shanny is using the Bills to squeeze an extra million out of the Skins or Bears......I hope not :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
I think it may be a ploy by OBD
With Shanahan’s positive comments about his meeting at OBD it helps make Bills look like a serious and desirable option, for at least one celebrity HC anyway. Maybe now the other celebrity HC’s will feel more comfortable with the thought of being here. Dangling a truckload of $$ along with front office power and the possibility of part ownership may just make Buffalo the hottest job prospect in the league.
most of my posts get deleted :(
But
Shannahan made the comment that it was a good meeting. I don’t think he would say it unless he really meant it.
by RabidBuffalo on Nov 25, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
i think what hes saying is that
Shanahan does mean it, and that is the brilliant part of Buffalo’s ploy.
I actually dont htink there was a ploy at all. I think we were sincere in wanting Shanahan. But I do think dzil is right that the offer we made might make Buffalo the hottest league job.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
I think Ralph should bend over
And kiss Bill Poiian’ rear, apologize publicly for firing him, and offer a piece of the team and 11 million a year to Chris Polian to take over as GM.
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Howie Long > Chris Long
Phil Simms > Chris Simms
Marty Schottenheimer > Brian Schottenheimer
Just because hes his son is no guarantee hes any good. No need to live in the past, lets move forward, whats done is done.
"you just have to know there's always going to be adversity. None of these games are going to be easy. Nothing will be given to us" - Paul Posluszny
Jairus Byrd > Gil Byrd
:-)
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Archie – Peyton – Eli
:-)
Never put salt in your eyes
by J2 on Nov 25, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
That one’s pretty much a hill.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 25, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Then why are the Colts prepared to hand the reigns to him after his father retires?
New York City Buffalo Bills Backers
www.nycbbb.com
Chris Polian was named the Colts GM today (Bill Polian is the team president)
making the succession official I guess, like they did with Jim Caldwell (assistant then associate head coach, before taking over this year).
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 27, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Of course Shanahan is going to say it was excellent
He’s being offered $50 million dollars!!!!!!!
He already wants to be a coach again – now the least money he’s going to get paid for something he already wants to do is $50 million with possibly more money from owners like Dan Snyder.
I’d be smiling ear to ear
Never put salt in your eyes
The $50M pricetag
Drives his value up if some other team wants him. You’re right, he better be saying it was excellent!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 25, 2009 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Question
What does piece of the franchise exactly mean? Would he be a part owner of the bills? If so that worries me for the bills future
Im thinking the same thing…
"I don't know how to explain it but we seem to find eachother on the ice and make things happen... Yeah. Pass, shoot, score... Yeah. Pass.. Shoot.. And score."
I’d guess, and let me stress that this is a guess, piece of the franchise does mean part owner, but since NFL franchises are worth about a billion, I’d assume it would be like 2-3% of the team. The NFL requires there to be a majority owner who controls at least 35% of the team and minority owners are pretty irrelevant. For Shanahan it would be a decent sized yearly check even after he’s done coaching here (10,000 dollars per percentage point that he owns for every million dollars that ownership makes) and then if/when he sells his portion of the team, he gets a huge payday.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Ralph's way of saying
if my kids don’t want the team, then might as well use a piece of it as a bargaining chip. I think it’s a brilliant move by Ralph. It’s no use to him after he’s dead and his heirs will sell their piece anyway.
most of my posts get deleted :(
Could be a lottery scenario.
As in, win the big one before I die, 5-10% of the team, then when the team is sold, that is one giant payday bonus. Ralph can’t take it with him. and I am sure every relative will be taken care of with the rest, that would be one heck of an incentive on top of that guaranteed contract.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 25, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
One other thing too.
Didn’t Denver lose 4 superbowls to before Shanahan got them their first? Hmmmmmmm.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 25, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Don't think he's worth that much
I’ve been pulling for us to get Shanahan, if only for his track record with building an OL, but at this price tag? I don’t think he’s worth that much. Of course how Wilson wants to spend his money is his own business. And from what’s been said this week I take it all the other “big name” candidates (Gruden, Cowher, Holmgren, Schottenheimer) are officialy not interested.
I agree he’s not worth 10M.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
It may seem so now, but the market has not been set. Can the Bills afford 10M though?
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Why would they only offer Holmgren a coaching gig?
Did they not even have a conversation about a GM position??
At this point maybe they are looking for one guy. They may look elsewhere if they get turned down. They can always call him up for a GM interview later.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
They didn’t offer him anything. They asked to speak with him, and he turned them down.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Not to say I want Shanahan just to play the Patriots, but
.. this link takes you to a post I wrote in August outlining how well Shanahan does against Belichick.
As much as I love the effort
I just can’t imagine how a $50M contract and piece of the team for a HC doesn’t hamstring this franchise. Seriously, what happens if Shanny fails after 3 years? We eat the remaining $20M? How would this impact the ability to sign FA’s? $10 per season is what, $8M or so more than Jauron was getting this year? That has to impact money available to sign players.
Going all in like that really seems like a bad move in case it doesn’t work out.
The price tag seems way too hefty for a HC. Do we have Shanny as overseer of personnel, as well? That didn’t work too well for him in Denver. Is betting the franchise’s future on him worth the risk? Maybe, but that is a steeeeeep price to pay for a HC, especially in our small market.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 25, 2009 2:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Also, how do they fire a guy who may have part ownership in the team?
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 25, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Minority owners are pretty meaningless. The way the NFL is set up, there is a majority owner who has at least 35% of the team and he is the one in charge. Everybody else is little more than an investor.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Everybody else is little more than an investor.
Or publicity like J-lo and the Williams sisters owning part of the Dolphins.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
rooney rule
Do we have to interview one minority owner?
That’s funny. :-)
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
You bring up the question from a sustainability standpoint. This type of deal would be very different than how Ralph has run the club for the past 50 years. Ralph is a businessman first and I can’t see him putting the long-term viability of his team at risk.
I also can’t see this being strictly about money for Shanahan. He’s being payed handsomely to play golf and is certainly set for life. The money might be just something to soothe the ego, but there are other ways that can be accomplished (i.e. a piece of the team). Shanahan will most certainly want to return to coaching because he loves it and want’s another chance at the Lombardi Trophy…which would increase his HOF credentials.
It will be difficult, but Brandon is smart enough to find some type of arrangement that could be satisfying to Ralph and Mike. If not there will be many other options for both parties.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
I was kind of thinking the same thing
If Brandon hires Shanahan (eg: Shanahan accepts), Wilson went more “all in” than most may realize. Shanahan’s paycheck and part of the franchise is a bundle for the Bills, financially speaking.
If Shanahan fails, we may be in the same spot as now, just with a lot less ability to stay afloat financially. And that doesn’t bode well for the viability of the team in WNY.
Me? I take that risk because Shanahan’s 2006 team went 13-3, beat the Pats in the playoffs and went to the AFC title game. All with the vaunted Jake Plummer at the helm. If he does that once in five years here, we’ll cover financially.
my thoughts on Shanahan
On the HC/GM thing, I’m on record as saying it’s a terrible idea. I also don’t think that hiring Shanahan is the same thing as hiring a guy like Holmgren to be the GM/HC. I don’t think Shanny wants to wear the GM hat and while he will demand lots of power including final say over a variety of things, as long as there is a voice in the FO to work with Shanahan and take the burden of organizing and managing the FO and scouts off of the head coach, I think it’s a solid way to move forward. Hiring Shanahan and then letting him pick a GM is different than hiring Mangini and letting him pick a GM because Shanahan >>>> Mangini.
I’d still prefer go after a young FO guy who has been ironing out a vision for a franchise and dreaming about the chance to run one his entire life. I’d rather go the DeCosta and Bowles/Grimm/Frazier route, but it’s close and I’d be very happy with a Shanahan hire.
And on Shanahan’s track record:
He didn’t exactly turn the Broncos around. They were a .500 team going 8-8, 9-7 and 7-9 in the three years before Shanny took over. John freakin Elway was on the team and it was an underachieving group with a lot of talent. They only went 8-8 in his first season and then went dynasty on the league until Elway retired. Winning with a HOF QB isn’t the hardest thing to do, but it’s not like Elway was consistently leading that team into the playoffs before Shanahan showed up either.
Denver went a big 6-10 the year after Elway called it quits. But in the in nine years between the 6-10 season and Shanny getting fired, the Broncos went 26 games over .500. How many franchises have collapsed after a HOF QB left? (coughBuffalocough). I find it very impressive that Shanahan held things together even though the Broncos couldn’t get back into the Super Bowl post-Elway. I also don’t believe that Shanny left that team in bad shape after being fired. Denver went 8-8 last year, had a good young QB, great OL, Marhsall, Royal and Scheffler on O. It was a defense in need of some help, but Champ Bailey is a phenominal CB, DJ Williams would be one of the best players on this or any team and Dumervil is going nuts this year. He didn’t leave them in great shape, but they weren’t a mess either.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
my biggest reservation...
…is the potential incompatibility between the fiscal behaviors of Ralph and Shanahan. Shanny likes a big staff, expensive free agents, perks, etc.
I wonder how Brandon danced around the whole “cash to the cap” policy during his meeting with Shanny. Perhaps Mike thought it meant that the Bills were willing to spend more on sports apparel.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Agreed
Shanahan visited Belichick this off-season and the two talk. Maybe (hopefully) Brandon offered him a Belichick-type position: HC with final say over personnel, but working with a GM that’s a football guy, who can take the take on the GM stuff.
He didn’t leave them in great shape, but they weren’t a mess either.
Exactly. I’d love if Shanahan left the Bills in that shape.
Meeting Transcript
It is the year 2010, the snows of January have enveloped all of Western New York. The entire region is excited as the new Bills head coach, Mike Shanahan, arrives at the Buffalo International Airport. Throngs of supporters brave the cold to see the man that will soon take the helm of this All North-American franchise. The warm reception is greatly appreciated by the coach who was unceremoniously ousted from his previous job nearly two years earlier, despite posting an impressive coaching record.
After a brief welcome at the airport, Shanahan and his entourage are whisked by an armada of limousines to the Bills offices in Orchard Park. There, after a brief orientation, Shanahan is expected to take the first steps to return this once proud franchise back to it’s rightful place among the NFL elite.
During the orientation, Shanahan is greeted by a euphoric Russ Brandon, who is still basking in the glow of signing the big-name coach. Russ brings in one of his assistants, who begins to discuss the business aspects of the club. When the subject of cash-to-the-cap comes-up, Shanahan begins to squirm in his seat. As the assistant continues, the coach becomes very uncomfortable and shows obvious signs of pain. Sensing an a problem, Brandon steps in and elaborates on the benefits of such a fiscally responsible approach.
It does not have the consequences that Brandon intended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
That reminds me.......we are out of salsa.
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
What it might take to get him is insane...too much money, a stake in the franchise...thats what WGRZ tells us all tonight
I don’t think Ralph is that desperate.
Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Nov 25, 2009 6:03 PM EST reply actions
I don’t think Ralph is that desperate.
I don’t know about that. The man wants to win a Super Bowl before he dies…and he’s over 90 years old.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
lol yeah you are right...very vaild point...maybe he is that desperate
Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Nov 25, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
big name coach
I understand our fraustratioon with brandon but why not keep him at a lesser price there for get a big name coach in to take over football personal make russ brandon our salesmen let’s admit our region isn’t exactly a bread winner we don’t get big buss around there for no extra bread for player no commercials no money letsa admit brandon is a good salesmen he got. T.o for a good price stroud big coach pick the player brandon fetch the player shanahan said it was pitched great very pursausive and raplh has thrown the chips on the table this is our last chance he is offered a sweet situation a chance to be a hero and be paid like one its not a tough sell but its gettin sold all anaylist and ignorant broadcasters say they don’t want buffalo y not us passionate crazy fans the best in football who will love there team and coach like none other in this league and do worse then before them I think we have a shot with shanahan and cowher let’s go buffalo
by allbillssince85 on Nov 25, 2009 6:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
a stake in the franchise
I hope absolutely not; its a players league; we need quality players! Keep tryinfg for Cowher—Pittsburgh similar to Bufffalo (cold winters) he is tough and a proven winner as well
Denver’s winters are not that cold. They tend to get large snowfalls that usually melt within a few days.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 25, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/coldest-cities-winter.php
Denver is colder, according to this, on average.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Nov 26, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Having lived in both, I would still take a Denver winter over a Pittsburgh winter.
2010 Bills' truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 26, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
question: if mike were to become head coach, would he be making personnel decisions (i.e., drafting players, etc) or would russ brandon be in charge of that?
Well Russ Brandon isn’t exactly in charge of it now. My gut says they would bring in a GM that Shannahan liked and worked with to be the “GM” but Shanny would have a lot of control.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Silly Question
What should we make of a guy like Holmgren turning us down, but more wooed by the overtures of Cleveland, which frankly is in way more disarray and has arguably less talent than we have? Is it simply a matter of him wanting to go somewhere where he’ll get way more control? Or are they in a better position to make a move upward than us?
Right now the Bills are looking for a coach. He doesn’t want to coach.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
Your daily source for Buffalo Bills information.
by MattRichWarren on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
It's a negotiation chip, not a demand
Excuse me if this has already been stated, but I’m regulated to responding via iPhone (Thanksgiving at the inlaws and all!)
I recently saw this tweet (see below) via Adam Schedter and it confirmed what I was thinking while reading through many of these comments: just because a source close to Shanahan says that maybe $50 million would get him to consider Buffalo, doesn’t mean… (a) that’s what the Bills offered, (b) that’s the only amount Shanahan would accept to become the Bills next head coach.
The “source” is no more than an advocate for Shanahan. He’s putting out an extremely large number to say “if you want Mike, this is what you’re going to have to come with.”
the “$50 million” is not a floor, it’s the first shot in what’s going to be a long negotiation process.
Schefter’s tweet:
RT @Adam_Schefter: $10 mil per year is not close to offer. RT @ryanferreira2: how bad is Buffalo if 10 mil per year and control of the team may not be enough?
John I.
by jri111 on Nov 25, 2009 9:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, it’s good that you pointed that out. A lot of people are acting as if Buffalo actually offered the 5 years, 50 mil and stake in the franchise to Shanahan, but that isn’t what the article said.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Stop it ladies.....................
………………..you sound like a bunch of old, gossipy women. The media posts tons of “rumors” from alleged “sources” that are often a bunch of crap. Adam Shifty gets fed bull from janitors and greenskeepers all the time. Its fun for him to leak the latest “hot” rumor. That is why he gets paid. Take it all with a grain of salt. I’ve been good all year and maybe Santa brings me Bill the Chin as HC on 20 January for 4 million a year for Christmas.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Nov 25, 2009 10:11 PM EST reply actions
If that was true,
you sound like a bunch of old, gossipy women.
we would be debating whether Shanny or Cowher has the better ass :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
Seriously?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 25, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Not really.....we all know he hasn't been good all year :-)
I think Polian must have put a curse on the Bills when he left. Anyone know where we can get a live Buffalo to sacrifice on the 50 yards line? Or, maybe we should use a Dolphin ??? Preferably, Nick Buoniconti
shananhan
would he want to be a coach or gm. also I have a fantasy question for everyone I got offered a trade offer the trade is andre johnson for miles austin and matt forte
My running backs are steven jackson, and marshawn lynch My receivers are johnson, tj hous, devin hester and mike wallace. it is also a ppr league what do you think.
Please bring back a good defense again....................
Quoted from an earlier post………………..
In it’s base form:
DT’s (Adams and Williams) played two gap over both guards.
Strongside DE (Kelsay/Denney) played outside shoulder of the strongside OT.
Weakside DE (Schobel) played wide of the weakside OT.
SLB (Posey) played wide/over the TE.
MLB and WLB (Fletcher and Spikes) played over the Guards behind the DT’s, very simlar to having 3-4 ILB’s.
PLEASE BRING THIS DEFENSE BACK TO BUFFALO!!
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Nov 26, 2009 10:54 PM EST reply actions
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