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Fixing This Team Starts in the Trenches

So I really enjoyed Brian's recent article that dealt with who are the "cornerstone" players of the Bills and began thinking harder while in my tree stand bow hunting this morning. I was thinking, what would be considered the "cornerstone positions," and do the Bills have any of those players and have they addressed any of those positions in the past. After thinking, I came to the conclusion that the offensive and defensive lines are most important followed by the Quarterback position. Over the last 10 dreadful years the Bills have not had any of these three cornerstone positions filled with extreme talent or should I just say solid talent. We have gone through a slew of bad Quarterbacks and spent a lot on under achieving lineman. After the jump I am going to go a little deeper and explain mainly the offensive line woes and touch upon the other two "cornerstone" positions and what I think are the Bills most pressing needs at this point. To this point, I think we can say we are very solid in the defensive backfield; having a lot of young talent and very solid starters for the foreseeable future. Our Running back crew seems to also be solid with Lynch and Jackson. And lastly, in my opinion our wide receiver corps is pretty solid. I think Hardy will soon transition nicely and eventually complement Evans. So that leaves us with pressing needs at the defensive line, Linebackers, Quarterbacks and Tight ends. Three out of those five which are pressing needs are what I consider the cornerstone positions of a franchise and the Bills have been missing those players for some time now.

 

**********************************************

Most Pressing Need:

#1

Offensive line: Dick Jauron has officially taken the blame for his decision to go with an extremely young line this year. He traded franchise LT Jason Peters, Cut OG Derrick Dockery and OT Langston Walker, and in my opinion, these cuts/trades will cost him his job this year. For anyone who expected this team to go far this year with this young line was extremely optimistic (My prediction was 4-12 at the beginning of the season by the way). I next want to talk about Levy as the old GM. Many people mocked Levy for what he did and blame him for our present woes. I don't think Marv made the wrong moves (positional wise), I just think he was obtaining players that were considered good that were unfortunately not so great. As we know Marv knows football and he showed it by making big splashes in the free agent period, signing the top rated OG Derrick Dockery for 60+ million and proven starter RT Langston Walker for 25 million. Marv's strategy was right on here; he was trying to rebuild this team through the offensive line, by signing what was thought to be the top lineman of that current year. Unfortunately for Marv, both players turned out to be under achievers and way overpaid. I still think we would love Walker at right tackle now though. Bottom line, Marv tried the right way "logically" to fix this team, he just missed out because the talent wasn't there in the free agent market. I am going to do a brief dissection of the current/future Offensive line and provide future solutions (player wise). I will neglect the draft since I am not 100% familiar with all the current prospects and where they will fall at this point (too early). Therefore, I will look at the free agent pool more.

 

Left Tackle: D. Bell- Has showed that he can play well at times and bad at others. He can be dominated, but we have seen him play well at times. 

Future: D. Bell has showed me that he can be a dependable back-up in this league. He has the athleticism to maybe one day be a solid starter. But as of now, we need an upgrade. For you D. Bell fans out there, I still think this guy could one day be a potential starter. The Bills can develop him behind a proven starter.

Best Free Agent Selection at This Point: Marcus McNeil, San Diego (25 years of age). With McNeil you get a proven starter who is maybe a tad overrated but still a dependable every down starter. He is still very young which is a plus. By the way, the Chargers have almost everyone on their roster to be resigned so you can expect some of them to be free agents. The Chargers have a good front office, and I believe they will probably retain McNeil, probably making top priority over Merriman. At this point McNeil seems to be the best option as of now.

********************

Left Guard: Andy Levitre- I think Levitre is having a solid rookie season. He isn't great, but he isn't bad. He has shown he can be a dependable guy who's future looks bright.

Future: Levitre looks to be a future starter for this team. I like his demeanor on the field and his smarts. He will develop into  a solid starter for years to come.

********************

Center: Geoff Hangartner- I haven't been entirely impressed with Geoff. He seems to be on and off. Overall he is better than Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston but still isn't a solid starter. This goes to prove how bad the Bills front office is. They make a back-up center their absolute top priority in free agency. They are right on with the position as being a priority, but fail to obtain anyone with solid starting talent. 

Future: I believe like Bell, Geoff is just not starting material. He plays alright at times, but he isn't great. I really see Wood being the best option at manning the center position in future years- see next breakdown.

********************

Right Guard: Eric Wood- Wood is quickly becoming one of my favorite Bills. He plays with a absolute mean streak, he is always fighting until the whistle blows and he often starts confrontations with opposing players simply because he doesn't give up on a play. He hasn't been amazing, but he has shown that he has the ability to be dominant in the future, something his other 1st round choice has failed to do thus far.

Future: Wood will simply be a stud in this league, there is no doubt in my mind. I do see him maybe switching to center if Geoff doesn't pan out. If he does move, the Bills will need to find a new starting guard. Here is a suggestion.

Best Free Agent Selection at This Point: Jahri Evans, Right Guard, New Orleans (age 26)- Evans has been a stud and is regarded as one of the best players at his position. He was drafted in the 4th round of the 2006 draft and has allowed very few sacks. Good lineman, give Q.B's more time to throw and running backs more holes to run through, Hence New Orleans offensive production this year.  Evans will probably be retained, but another viable option is Logan Mankins, New England Patriots. 26 years of age.

*********************

Right Tackle: Who ever isn't hurt? This is probably the position that is killing us the most on the offensive line, especially when Chambers enters the game- see the Miami game. All of our options are back-up's in this league. I would honestly love Langston Walker. The guy said he couldn't play Left Tackle, they moved him to left and guess what? He couldn't do it. Walker allowed "NO" sacks (I pretty sure on this so don't quote me, but it wasn't many if he did allow some) last season at right tackle. Why get rid of a solid starting Right tackle? It's because Dick is clueless. He should have realized Walker couldn't play Left Tackle and just kept him at his original position. He was solid, why try to change him? 

Best Free Agent Selection at This Point: Maybe Winston Justice, Eagles (24 years of age)? Justice started out pretty poorly when he first entered the league as a second rounder. He is becoming more and more dependable as he plays more. I am not saying he is the absolute best thing out there, but from what I can find, he seems like an alright choice this early in the game.

 

Well, thats my short breakdown, sorry if you disagree or find this completely crazy in regards to the offensive line. I just really think the Offensive line is where this team needs to start building around if they want to be competitive. Good teams like Eagles and the Patriots prove it every year. Their QB's have all day to throw and their running backs have huge holes.

*T.O side track* since it coincides with my offensive line point-

For all you T.O haters out there who want to run him out of town and are calling him a bust; let me ask you, are you serious? If you have no line, no time to throw, and no Q.B, how is the guy going to flourish? He can't throw himself the ball, or can he? If you're going to hit me with the "drop" thing, you knew that when we got him. You knew he dropped about as many balls as he scored TD's. I would like to see him in B-Lo with a new coach and revamped Offensive line next year. I honestly am starting to feel bad for this guy, he can't do nothing right, even if he keeps his mouth shut.

*Lynch side track* since it coincides with my offensive line point-

For all you Lynch haters out there that say "he dances too much," let me ask you, are you serious? He dances because he has no holes to run through. He is always looking for a small crack to hit. He usually gets to the line, where there is no hole and runs with 8 guys surrounding him and carries them for 2-3 yards and half the time doesn't hit the floor because no one can bring him to the ground. Trust me, my season tickets are in the "rock pile" which is about corner endzone 15 rows up, I can see that there are no holes for Freddy or Lynch to run through, especially when they are backed up against our goaline. If you are going to tell be how come Freddy ran so well the first couple games? it  is a simple answer. Somehow this line blocked extremely well then, especially in New England. There was huge holes versus new england, and the play calling was excellent. I don't know whether it was Monday Night Football or what, but thats probably the best you'll see this unit ever block. And for Tampa, well, its Tampa. 

 

*********************

Most Pressing Need:

#2

Quarterback: I skip over the defensive line and address Q.B second because I simply think overall, our Defensive line is better than our Quarterbacks. Unfortunately for Trent, he has not progressed. I really wanted both him and Losman to be good, but the fact is, they're not. I would like to see how Trent finishes the year and then make decision. As of now, there are no solid options at Q.B in free agency in my opinion. Kyle orton will probably be resigned, and I really don't think he is that good anyways. He is more of a game manager than a playmaker. Drafting a Q.B seems to be logical, especially if we have a high, high pick. Unfortunately, I am not thrilled about any Q.B in this draft. My favorite is probably Locker right now out of Washington. This is going to be a tough decision this offseason. Something obviously needs to be done hear, because we haven't had someone since Jim. And, unfortunately for Trent, new coaches usually means new Q.B's. I am not a Trent Fan at all, but would like to see him with a good line and coaching staff before I totally canned him.

 

Best Free Agent: Kyle Orton

Best in Draft: IMO, Bradford/Locker

 

Most Pressing Need:

#3

Outside Linebacker: So I just skipped over the D-line again, even though I considered those positions as "cornerstone" positions. Why? because we simply are better at the D-line versus the Linebacker crew. Our defense is sadly last in the NFL in rush yards allowed per game, a horrible achievement. I really think this stems from our linebacking corps more so than our D-line. Poz is the only one worth mentioning as solid. I really like Nic Harris and think he can be a future starter in this league. Ellison is awful and doesn't deserve to start at all ever again. Mitchell is a scary loss since he tore a ligament in his knee at a older age. I believe he is 29 or so, and with that knee injury, you could see the Bills release him or see his production start to fall quick. We desperately need outside linebackers and there are a few solid names out there at the linebacking position.

Best Available Free Agents:

Shawne Merriman, Chargers, age 25. A stud at rushing the passer. His production has dropped since his injury, but knee injuries usually take some time before the person returns to full strength. I believe Merriman will get back to full strength next year. It also helps that he is still so young. The Chargers like I said have a lot of guys to retain, and this is one of their guys I see escaping. Bottom line, he won't cost as much since he endured that knee injury, but his price will still be too steep for Ralph I am sure.

DeMeco Ryans and Karlos Dansby- Both highly regarded ILB. Not sure if they can make a switch, but maybe Poz can since he played outside in college. 

 

Well thats it, hope you enjoyed my little dissection and some future possible free agents that the Bills will never sign. Again, I stress the importance of starting with the offensive line. I think the Bills already made a step forward in investing in both the O-line and D-line from the past draft. The Bills need to provide there playmakers with opportunities. You can have all the playmakers you want at WR and RB, but if you cannot protect the Q.B, you will not be able to throw the ball the your WR's, and if you cannot blow open holes, you will not be able to run the ball. This IS the problem the Bills are having. I believe Owens has said it best. He always mentions the O-line when asked "why is the offense not getting it done." There is a reason for that. He had great O-lines in Phily and Dallas, and knows it is very important for success. He has been saying our line is "young" and "injured" and that makes it hard. He is 100% correct. 

Let me know what you think. I also attached a poll to let you decide what you think should be the Bills most pressing need this offseason. Thanks for reading!

Poll
What is the Most Pressing Need in Order to Turn Things Around for the Bills?
Offensive Lineman
57 votes
Defensive Lineman
6 votes
Q.B
26 votes
LB's
5 votes
Other
2 votes

96 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a registered user of Buffalo Rumblings. Its views do not necessarily reflect the views of Rumblings' editorial staff, but are just as valued as our own.

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We say the same thing every year

Need to fix the trenches and find a QB. Until those issues are solved, and it’s hard to be confident they’ll be fixed anytime soon, this team will remain an afterthought in the NFL.

I’m beginning to wonder if Hangartner really is starting caliber. He’s had some moments, but he hasn’t been what we’ve needed so far. I wonder if our best move would be to move Butler back to RG next year, if he’s healthy, and slide Wood over to Center, putting Hang on the bench as a very good backup to all three interior positions. We need LT and probably RT anyway…

QB is our biggest need, not to discount the need for better OLinemen. You just can’t win the NFL consistently without very good QB play.

I doubt any of those FA’s other than maybe Merriman and Dansby would make it to free agency. You also have to remember that if there is no CBA in place, and it seems unlikely at this point, then all these young FA’s will be Restricted FA’s.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

good points

I forgot about Butler, he looked good for the length he played at RT, but we could move him to guard and move Wood to center, then we would only need tackles.

Yea i know about the free agents, I was just listing the best available to this point. Although I am not entirely familiar with the CBA. Most of this business lingo confuses me since I am a medical man.

How does the CBA make free agents restricted and what does it have to do with the salary cap? Sorry, I probably should have read up on this when ralph was fighting about it, but it just didn’t make sense to me. Similar to how we had more cap room then the redskins but they are still somehow able to spend 150+ million on a couple players and we can’t. I just don’t understand a lot of the business behind the NFL. Every year in Free agency, it seems like the same teams spend a crazy amount of money when it is said they have a lot lower cap room than the the Bills or other teams.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Currently players with 3 years experience and no contract still have their rights owned by the team as restrictied free agents. But based on the last collective bargaining agreement, if there’s no cap next year, then everything changes. Players with four years experience will still be restricted free agents if there isn’t a new agreement. I don’t remember the details. MRW could give a better answer.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 4, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what I put together in June.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/6/6/852033/looking-ahead-to-a-potential

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG

by MattRichWarren on Nov 8, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here’s a little recap about what would happen.

If there’s no salary cap, which seems likely, then the number of accrued seasons required to be eligible for unrestricted free agency jumps to 6. Basically, any player who was drafted in 2005 or later that was scheduled to be an UFA, won’t be.

Plus, teams would get two franchise tags, instead of one.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 4, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn’t this also kill any small market team, like buffalo, cincy etc.. It will turn into baseball which is horrible, and the only good teams will be Dallas, Washington etc… because they have all the money, like the Yankees.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There are a bunch of things in place to prevent that at least in the current form. Teams that make the playoffs have restrictions on free agency. If you draft well you get to keep your guys for half of their career, 6 years, without them ever hitting free agency.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG

by MattRichWarren on Nov 8, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so I just read the article, interesting. They seem to think no much will change, and mostly it will be less of a spending free cus the free agents wont hit the market. well, wouldn’t the spending free happen in the draft or future years still when these players actually become UFA? It looks like the only way to build our team is through the draft for next year if this CBA doesn’t go down.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, the hangman is not very good and I think I’d like to see Wood switch over to Center. The problem with Butler is that he is always injured. I don’t think we can plan around that guy. I agree that we need a LT and I think Bell could be switched to RT.

I’m also of the opinion that we need to draft a top rated QB in the next draft. Something I realized this morning is how bad Drew Brees was in his second year with the Chargers, which got me to thinking about Trent. I would love to see a QB with a big arm in here but Drew Brees proves that it is not a necessity to be successful. To be fair to Trent, he’s never had coaches to develop him properly. If he had decent coaching and smart play-calling, I wonder if he could develop into a better QB? I’m not so certain that I’d want to give up on him so quick. He has shown flashes here and there.

The way things are shaping up, we should be in a great position to get either a top QB (Clausen or Locker) or a top LT (Okung or Suh). I still hope we lose out to keep all our options open.

The great news is if we go LT in the first, there is a strong chance that one of the top QBs will still be around early rd2, not sure what’s going to happen to Sam Bradford’s stock but I suspect that he’ll fall because of the injury concerns. As a rd2 pick he could be a steal. Draft a franchise LT, then draft Bradford in Rd2 and start Edwards next year and let Bradford learn and develop.

I really think Poz should be moved to SAM and we need to upgrade the Mike position. He is always out of position and has not been impressive at all. Maybe it’s the injury to the arm that’s making him tentative but it ain’t pretty. We should have pursued Vilma last off season (another Jauron Blunder).

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Nov 4, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Suh is a DT

Brees was just bad early in his career. Edwards is bad and plays scared. Big difference.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 4, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know I rushed my response. I meant to say Okung or Williams and then say that I could also see us taking Suh at DT because it would go a long way to fixing our run defense, which is not to suggest that QB & Tackle are not our main priorities but I believe in drafting talent over needs.

I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!

by keysh67 on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We have so many needs... it is not a problem :-)

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Nov 4, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bills I think need to do everything they can to get a Q.B and LT in the first. If it means trading way up like the Jets did for Sanchez, than ok, do it. But I also think you could probably wait until the second to draft one of the other Q.B’s but I think its very important we actually get a good one. I’d hate to see another losman. The move to get a Q.B was right when we drafted Losman, he just was a bad pick. Hopefully, they take a Q.B first, and move up to get a LT. Problem is, from what I have read, there is only 2 solid LT in this draft.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and just as important

there is no salary cap floor, meaning these owners can really hunker down in case of a work stoppage. will they do that, I don’t know but it is available to them.

by gatornation on Nov 4, 2009 8:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i voted Other

I say this because we need to stop droping Catchable balls that we should h have.

GO BUFFALO

by kooldude on Nov 4, 2009 8:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yea but for Owens has had 8 drops or so, if he caught those, would that make us good? we would still lose all those games.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Momentum is momentum so...

maybe not…maybe some of thsoe crucial 3rd downs he botched could have kept their defienses on the field a little longer and given us another chance at some points, instead of punts! Their is a reason they are called drive KILLERS. Very hard to keep anything going when you are killing yourself out there…

by Tatunka on Nov 4, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true, but you also wouldn’t have scored a reverse the last game because no one on our team can move like that around the corner. Evans is fast, but for some reason he is not good in open space running, hence why he never gets a reverse. I think it goes both ways, you knew owens was going to drop the ball when he got here, and you knew he would make big plays. He hasn’t made enough big plays because our O-line is awful and gives whoever is at Q.B no time to throw

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

While I agree with you...

I just can’t seem to get that 50 yard bomb that was right in his hands and then wasn’t in his hands out of my head. Evans makes that catch…as does any other premier receiving threat in the league, whereas TO has the dropsies. I am not saying don’t ever give TO a reverse or an end around, because that guy can run, but on 3rd and 4 you get a pass that hits you in the numbers with no coverage within a few yards, you must make that catch. That is a catchable ball that would sustain a drive. Maybe even give us the opportunity to run an end around or reverse on first down to catch the defense off guard. If he isn’t going to make that catch then we have to find ways to get it to Jackson or Reed who will make those possession receptions.

by Tatunka on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true but the drops are usually alright because he makes big plays, its not the case this year tho.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly what

kool and I are saying…

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

On almost every point, except the new QB. Big 12 QB’s do not make good pro’s but for once every decade or two. Bradford is not our guy. He will likely not even be there by the time we pick, but that being said picking up a Big 12 QB coming off season ending shoulder surgery on a team with line issues…this would spell even greater disaster than we have now (which is fairly disasterous). Who was the last Big 12 QB to do anything in the pro’s at all besides get hurt? Major Applewhite, Josh Deurel, Chris Simms? Nope, Nope and Nope. Big 12 D-Line, or RB…OK, but QB’s…avoid them like the plague.

by Tatunka on Nov 4, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

so what do you do at the QB position? I am thinking they have to draft one since we are in such a bad situation right now, the question is who? Do they draft another 3 year project like Maybin (Tebow). If you look at Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay totally changed his throwing style since they drafted him, making his a solid Q.B. It could happen, problem is, he doesn’t have a future hall of famer to develop behind.

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying we don't need a QB...

Just that Bradford is not our guy. I am thinking by the time we pick Bradford, Tebow, Snead, maybe even Clausen will all be gone. I think we are looking at a second or third rounder possibly someone like Johnson from PSU, Brown from WVU, or the QB for Purdue (can’t seem to remember his name right now and no time to look it up at work!) with development written all over him. I think it will largely depend on who will be HC next year as well. There is no way in my mind we are getting either Shanahan, Cowher, Dungy or Gruden. Fisher is fine where he is, so that might leave Billick, but why would he come back to a project team unless he got money Ralph is unaccustomed to giving out…so looking like some coordinator or another will get a shot to go 8-8 or thereabouts for 2-3 years while we all wallow in self pity. Which means with no clear GM and some coordinator turned coach doing this upcoming draft, you can bet we will not get the superstar QB to step in on day one and lead this franchise to: 1.) a winning season; 2.) january football; and dare I say 3.) a championship. QB is a position of high need when it comes to this football team, but I think that a development behind Trent or another FA next year while our line gels further wouldn’t be a terrible (or out of the ordinary) thing.

by Tatunka on Nov 4, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

None of the Big 12 QBs you mention were highly regarded prospects though. That’s like me saying that QBs from Delaware never make good pros and then list all the guys before Flacco. Who cares if undrafted Major Applewhite wasn’t a good pro? You’ve got Vince Young as a likely bust, Chris Simms as a 3rd rounder and then who was the last highly regarded QB before that? Kordell Stewart? The big 12 hasn’t produced good prospects, but that doesn’t make a good prospect like Bradford any more or less likely to succeed in the NFL.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 4, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

I look at those cases and see too much hype in every name mentioned. I see Big 12 QB as something the experts sling around as being ready for the NFL. In each of those cases, not so much. So, to go with the trend…too much hype most likely will not bring the anticipated results at the pro level.

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

None of those guys were good pro prospects

So how can they be hyped as such? They were very good college QB’s and deserved the accolades they received. But nobody was talking about them being future NFL stars.

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps it was a case of local media hype...

as I was living in Austin when Chris Simms was being hailed as the second coming. Major Applewhite as his back-up (pretty sure, kind of a fuzzy period in my life…) and he walked on water locally too (as long as UT was winning). Given the disappointment from that to NFL flunkie (although who knows without that freak spleen injury) I guess I on guard when it comes to those QB’s. Watch a UT game now…no one can stop talking about Colt McCoy and what a promising future he has…which to your point about coaches and these players, there is no crystal ball.

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops...posted too soon!

to continue…I guess we should wait and see, but I am just hesitant when it comes to so much hype as the noise machine seems to overpower talent at times. I would much rather get a Flacco (some surprise talent from out of nowhere Pitt and then UD) than someone that the talking heads can’t shut up about on Saturday’s.

I also didn’t really start following the draft until well after those fools I mentioned were NFL nobody’s or undrafted, but in retrospect the local media environment of those Big 12 stars was very leading and fans in Austin weren’t necessarily concerned with what may have been said nationally.

Kinda like what happens here when the national talking heads tear up the Bills and we call them morons, yet here we are looking at a possible 4-12 record and fulfilling their prophecies.

All I am saying is that many people have been hyping Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford and the like, and while they deserve the accolades they receive in college, they may or may not, as it remains to be seen, be anything special at the pro level.

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Local media

Of course, any college star, especially QB’s, will get a ton of notoriety and recognition by their local media. Whether they are legit pro prospects or not, that really isn’t really relevant when the local media is praising these guys in the middle of the season for their current play on the field.

Wait until the new year when draft information and debate really starts to heat up. Guys like McCoy will be critiqued and their flaws will be expanded upon. The so-called hype won’t be about their pro prospects.

A guy like Bradford is a top prospect though.

And aren’t QB’s always talked about throughout the country by all the local media? It’s not just the Big 12….What about all those SEC (Florida, Georgia, etc) QB’s over the years?

~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."

by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, every QB who plays for a big name program, on a winning team is going to get considerable amounts of hype. The difference is that scouts never considered guys like Chase Daniel or Jason White to be legit NFL prospects. Those guys always had late round grades. Bradford is a first round prospect and the NFL will validate that when a team selects him pretty high in the first.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 5, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess what I am most worried about...

with respect to some of the man love around here for Bradford is this pending surgery…I just think with our line woes to want this guy is to burn a high first round pick with a very high potential of watching him go right to IR in weeks 1-3…

also the Big 12 atmosphere is something of legend, and Texas does consider itself its own country most of the time (until federal aid money is concerned that is), so you are right the perception down there was probably skewed

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

too true

Big East is pretty famous around here for hyping nobodies…we miss you Donovan!

SEC is pretty shameless about their superstars who bust in the NFL too (cough cough Parrish cough).

by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Where to start

  We go through this every year. You answered your rebuilding question yourself, when you said that management has not made very good selections of the players available in free agentcy. DO YOU THINK THAT THE TALENTED PLAYERS WOULD BE HERE IF WE HAD A GM THAT KNOWS TALENT??????

by Bob on Nov 4, 2009 11:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yes i do lol

by csc06258 on Nov 4, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good read, I was thinkning the same thing the other day. Its seems imperative for this franchise to move forward we have to build a solid dependable O line. We do have some spots locked down. We def. need upgrades at the tackle position. As someone has already mentioned, moving Butler back to RG would be a good option, he has played pretty well as a RG, move Wood to C, and Levitre stays at LG. With Geoff and Bell on the bench, we would have good depth, hopefully we get some good tackles to replace them. Depth, depth and more depth on both the OLine and DLine. I think we need to address both lines. We have good skill players. May be Edwards’ confidence will grow if he had some time to throw, or will he always be known as Capt Checkdown, regardless of how well the OLine plays.

by Hassanali181 on Nov 4, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Couple quick things:

Dockery got 49 mil over 7 years.

Levy’s FA class was Triplett, Royal, Fowler and maybe somebody I’m forgetting in 2006. Dock and Walker were 2007 and were all Jauron and Guy.

opinions:

I’m totally with you on the Marshawn dancing thing. I think every RB gets criticized for dancing too much. Just like every MLB gets flack for making tackles downfield and every FS gets told that his INTs are lucky (sorry, had to). It’s not like Jackson is without flaws. I remember back to back runs from him from the weekend where he took the first carry right, got outside the tackle and had open space. There was one defender and he was being blocked by a WR and Jackson ran right into him. On the very next play, Jackson ran towards the LT had nowhere to go at all, but managed to weave his way through a pile to gain more than he had the previous play.

Jackson doesn’t lower his shoulder and run through defenders, he doesn’t have the speed to beat guys to the sideline. What Jackson does is wiggle his way through traffic, starting and stopping, he contorts his body to break arm tackles and falls foward to make the most out of every carry. He’s a totally different style back then Lynch and I think that in time, they will work best as a committee. Give Marshawn a big hole and he will gain more than Jackson every single time. Give Jackson a screen pass where he has both space as well as blockers and defenders to weave through, and I’d take him over Lynch every time. I think the Bills need both.

I’d put QB as this team’s biggest need. I think the OL is closer than we all think. I know they are playing awful right now, but that is what happens when you start a pair of rookie guards, the single most raw prospect who drafted a year earlier and an RT who you signed off somebody else’s PS. Rookie guards almost always struggle. Even the best guys in the league were mediocre as rookies, it’s just the nature of the position. I think we’ll be strong up the middle for a long time. Between Bell and Butler, Buffalo should have one solid OT. So they’re really only missing one player and I think they can find that guy outiside the first round or in free agency, unlike a QB.

If I signed Shawn Merriman to play in a 4-3, he’d be playing with a hand on the ground. 6’5’’, 265 pound players don’t typically make good OLBs. He needs to rush the passer on most plays to be effective. Thomas Davis from Carolina is probably the best OLB scheduled to hit FA if Buffalo sticks with the 4-3.

I think you’re right the leave the DL down the list. Buffalo can’t pass on a DT or bigger DE if they’re the best available player. If they get a shot at Suh or McCoy in the first, they’ve got to take them (unless there’s a big time QB too) or if Buffalo gets a shot to draft a big DE like Everson Griffen or Derrick Morgan in the 2nd, I think they’d be smart to go that route over an LT who is lower on their board. But the Bills have a DL in place. Stroud and Williams aren’t going anywhere and replacing Johnson and McCargo isn’t that big of a priority. Buffalo needs to give Maybin chances to succeed and Schobel and Kelsay will be here next year too.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 4, 2009 4:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

?????
I think the OL is closer than we all think.

We have HUGE question marks at both LT and RT. The best thing you can say about Bell is he has potential, which means he hasn’t done sh!t yet. Butler can’t be counted on to stay healthy…..but he is a great swing guy. Follow the Parcel’s plan…..draft your LT in round 1 and your QB in round 2. If we do take a QB in round , we better be dam sure about him. Drafting a first round bust at QB is a great way to get fired.

I would still like to see us get a stud DT to help collapse the pocket and stuff the run. Hopefully we can find one in round 3.

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Nov 4, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

right on Joe P. This line is very, very far from good. I don’t even think you can call them close. They are easily the worst line in football

by csc06258 on Nov 5, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a young OL that is going to get better. It would be like Detroit or NY saying their biggest need is QB because their QBs are playing like crap. I think if Buffalo simply returned all five starters next year, they’d be a much better line. We all knew (should have known) that Wood and Levitre would be average at best and Bell would likely struggle. Those guys need time. I’ll probably have LT as the Bills 2nd biggest need behind QB (and seriously, if Buffalo has a chance to draft a top QB or top LT, you’d really pass on Clausen or Locker to grab Okung?), but I don’t think that means the whole OL is in shambles. I think the Bills are one player away from fielding an average line with the potential to grow into much, much more.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 5, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And to elaborate: the whole closer than we all think line is about how Buffalo only needs to add a LT. If you didn’t know much about the Buffalo OL, you’d think that we need to tear everything down and start all over. You’d think that a major overhaul was in order, but this is a line of young players who are struggling and missing a starter at RT and not a line of bad football players.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 5, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d have to agree with you there kaiser – but we’re missing either a starting RT or LT – maybe LT depending on how Bell pans out.

I wouldn’t mind drafting a world beater LT – moving Bell/Butler to RT and go from there.

I think there is validity to your point – these guys are pretty young – next year we should see some real growth and hopefully they will be dominant in 2 years – at least the interior.

i’ve said it before and i’ll say it agian – i was thoroughly impressed by the draft this past year – 3 linemen with the first 4 picks (not to mention a ball hawk) is exactly how to build a good team. unfortunately (fortunately) DJ & Co. won’t be around to see the fruits of their labor – but they will watch them over the years I guess and have some personal satisfaction

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Nov 5, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would I pass on Locker or Clausen?

Yes, unless I was sure one of them was the next Matty Ice Ryan. There should be some good but raw 2nd round QB talent this year. It is a perfect time to get one of them and let them develop. The new coaching staff will get at least 2 years, which would be enough time to let a new QB hold the clip board and learn while the Oline gels. Bring in a stop gap QB and/or let Edwards take a pounding.

I agree that the Oline is not all bad. I like Wood (should be our Center) and Levitre. We still need to draft a LT and need another G to replace Wood. Seems like the best plan to me :-)

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

here is a point for you: How much “more” time do you want to wait? seriously it has been 10 years, no one wants to wait anymore for someone to “get” good anymore.

by csc06258 on Nov 5, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then you’re watching the wrong sport. Far more often than not, the quick fix does you more damage long-term than it does in the short-term.

For example: the Jets last year. They went out and got Favre, then flopped at 9-7. Now they’re trying to break in an extremely overrated (yet still drenched with potential) rookie quarterback and an extremely overrated head coach. They stink, too, as evidenced by a) losing to US and b) getting swept by Miami.

I understand the frustration over the decade-long drought, believe me – I’ve lived through it too. But taking the impatient route at another re-build is NOT the best way to do it.

Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott

by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am just saying, getting a proven tackle or drafting one is probably better than waiting for Bell to be good, A.) b/c he may never get good, or B.) he might turn into a pro bowler like Jason Peters that the Bills won’t pay. Point: we waited for Jason Peters to develop and look what happened there, he got good, and we let him go, Hence why this team will never get good. We have been great at developing DB’s too and let 3 good ones go, Clements, Greer and Windfield. If the patient way is the best way to go, then O.K but at least retain the players when they get good. Does that make any sense?

by csc06258 on Nov 5, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

remember – we paid Peters before he was elite – then he whined like the the little girl that he is.

you cannot put that on the Bills

I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?

by J2 on Nov 5, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll quote myself:

I’ll probably have LT as the Bills 2nd biggest need behind QB
I think the Bills are one player away (a LT) from fielding an average line with the potential to grow into much, much more.

I think the Bills would be crazy to pass on a top QB for a left tackle. Considering that Buffalo is much more likely to find a LT in the 2nd round than a QB, I think that is the smartest thing for Buffalo to do. I’d push Bell to RT where his progress would determine whether Butler starts at RT or RG (pushing Wood to center).

I don’t see why it matters that the OL was bad 8 years ago. We’re not waiting for the same players to develop. It’s two rookie guards and a tackle that this blog was ridiculously excited about a couple of months ago. Detroit has had bad QB play for a long time now, they should probably get impatient with Stafford right?

I’m not advocating Buffalo stand pat with the OL. I have been very against the LT situation since they said that Walker would shift out there. But Bills fans need to be patient with Wood, they need to be patient with Levitre and Bell needs more than half a season before we determine that he isn’t capable of starting.

People are talking about taking the Dolphins route and going with a QB in the 2nd round, but to me, that’s the impatient route. I want to go the Atlanta Falcons direction. Find a new face to the franchise in the first round (assuming that one is worth taking) and then fix the crappy OL with the next pick. People had the same concerns about putting Ryan behind a bad OL, but they added a decent LT prospect (Sam Baker was considered an early 2nd round prospect), had a good LG in place (Justin Blalock), a mediocre veteran center (Todd McClure), a no-name RG (Harvey Dahl) and a Brad Butler like RT (Tyson Clabo). Nobody thought that line would be good, but it came together as young players improved, a good young QB stood behind it and the team went run heavy. That’s the model I’d like to follow going all the way up to the top with hiring a solid GM.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 5, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Ryan is the best rookie QB to come out since Peyton Manning

How is it impatient to draft a QB who needs a year or two to develop? Even if Bell can play LT/RT, we still need a day one starter at the other OT position plus a starter at G. I am not against drafting a QB with our 1st pick but you have to be sure he can be the man. IMO, the bust potential in drafting a QB in the first round is greater than drafting a LT. And, making that mistake at QB tends to set your franchise back about five years. Coaches tend to tie their wagon to their QB and stick with them because of the high draft pick/money invested in the decision. Can the same be said of other positions? IMO, it seems much easier for teams to part ways with a bust at other positions. Again, it can be done both ways.

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think commiting to any QB who fails, sets your franchise back. QBs take time to develop and can’t be shifted to an easier position. If you draft an OT and they stink, then you can get a new one the next offseason and try the potential bust at RT or OG. With a QB, you’ve got to play them until they prove they can cut it or they can’t. Doesn’t matter when you draft him, once you decide a QB is your starter, you’re stuck with him. How far back has Edwards set the Bills? I don’t think that drafting a QB in the 2nd, sitting him on the bench his first year and then watching him suck for a couple seasons sets the Bills back much less than a first round bust would.

I’ve never liked the high risk argument that people associate with QBs. There was a similiar debate with WRs a couple years ago. The problem with avoiding a QB in the first because he’s got a 50% chance of busting is that number goes way, way up with each and every round. In fact, I’m of the belief that the bust rate for QBs goes up much faster than other positions. I think your best bet at finding a good QB and a good OT is to draft them in that order. The only three QBs in the entire league who are currently 2nd rounders and starting are Drew Brees (taken with the first pick in the 2nd), Brett Favre and Chad Henne. Schaub and Edwards are the only third rounders. Garrard, Seneca Wallace and Orton are the 4th rounders. Compare that to the list of 1st round QBs (Eli and Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Flacco, Palmer, Ryan, Cutler, Jason Campbell, Kerry Collins and the rookies Sanchez, Stafford and Johnson). You might get a bust in the first, but you’re odds get really bad if you wait.

I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute

by kaisertown on Nov 5, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Good point, but how many of those guys were top 5 picks?

If we don’t pick in the top 5 is it still as big a risk as picking in the top ten of the second round? Either way, the Bills need to hit on both of them.

"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa

by Joe P. on Nov 8, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t like the LB options. They would be switching schemes (assuming we stay as a 4-3) and that’s never good for me, especially a position so different as 3-4 LB to 4-3 LB.

Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG

by MattRichWarren on Nov 8, 2009 8:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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