Bills have tried various methods to address QB
Since Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season, the Buffalo Bills have tried virtually every strategy available to find the next great franchise quarterback. With Trent Edwards faltering in his third year, the Bills may once again be in the market for the "next franchise quarterback". How might the Bills go about obtaining him? What has the organization tried in the past that may make them weary to go down a specific path again? The quarterbacks' winning percentages with the Bills are listed following each bio.
Draft a second-tier prospects in picks 15-45: Todd Collins (1995-1997), J.P. Losman (2004-2008)
The Bills selected Todd Collins No. 45 overall in the 1995 draft. That year, he started his first game in relief of an injured Kelly. The following year, he started three more games before taking over as the full-time starter when Kelly retired. In 1997, Collins' only full season as the starter, his numbers were adequate, going 215 of 391 with 2,367 yards. His 55% completion percentage and 12-13 TD-to-INT ratio were very lackluster, as was the team's 6-10 record. (41% winning percentage)
J.P. Losman was drafted No. 22 overall in the 2004 draft. In fact, the Bills traded up to get him, giving away their 2004 second-round pick and 2005 first-round pick to obtain the rights to the Tulane QB. Losman started for only one complete season throwing for 3051 yards and 19 touchdowns in 2006. The Bills went 7-9 that year but in 2007 Losman took a severe step back losing the first three games of the year and looking awful in the process. (30% winning percentage)
Trade for a promising backup: Rob Johnson (1998-2001)
Following the one season with Todd Collins, the Bills traded their first- and fourth-round draft picks to the Jaguars for backup quarterback Rob Johnson. In three season in Jacksonville, Johnson had started one game and thrown 35 passes. Due to chronic injuries, Johnson started a majority of games for the Bills only once, in 2000, going 4-7 as a starter. His stats were impressive; he could just rarely led the Bills to a victory. (35% winning percentage)
Sign a free agent to stabilize the position: Doug Flutie (1998-2000), Kelly Holcomb (2005-2006)
36-year-old Doug Flutie joined the Bills in 1998 at the same time as Johnson. Flutie had last played in the NFL in 1989, but had found success in the Canadian Football League, breaking passing records and winning six league MVP awards and three Grey Cups. As starter for Buffalo, he found his way onto the field in relief of the oft-injured Johnson and won a lot of games for the Bills. In 1998, he went to the Pro Bowl after leading the Bills to the playoffs, going 7-3 in his 10 starts. He once again led the Bills to the playoffs in 1999, compiling a 10-5 record as the starter. Wade Phillips, for reasons only known to him and a select few, named Johnson the starter for the playoff game, and following the (dubious) loss to the Titans, Johnson entered the 2000 season as the starter. Flutie was released after the 2000 season for salary cap reasons. (70% winning percentage)
In Holcomb's first year with the Bills, he started exactly half of Buffalo's games opposite Losman, winning exactly half of his starts. He was seen as the safe, knowledgeable veteran, in contrast with the wild and risk-taking Losman. He managed to complete 67% of his passes - the highest percentage in team history with at least 40 passes - but his yards per attempt was so low (6.6) that it hardly scared opponents' defenses. In 2006, Losman started every game for Buffalo, and following the season, Holcomb was traded to the Eagles, who turned around and traded him to the Vikings. (50% winning percentage)
Starter by default: Alex Van Pelt (1995-2003)
Alex Van Pelt was cut by the Pittsburgh Steelers a few months after they selected him in the seventh round of the draft. Buffalo signed him and he sat behind Kelly and Collins... and every other quarterback the Bills brought in after them. He started three games in relief of Collins in 1997, but returned to the bench until November of 2001, when he replaced the injured (again) Johnson. Van Pelt and Johnson each started 8 games that year, with AVP throwing for an impressive 2,056 yards and 12 touchdowns. Following that season, the Bills made a bold move to bring in a different answer to the question of Buffalo's starting QB. (38% winning percentage)
Trade for an established vet: Drew Bledsoe (2002-2004)
Following the 2001 season, Buffalo sent their 2002 first-round draft pick to the New England Patriots for Drew Bledsoe, who had become expendable with the emergence of Tom Brady. Bledsoe had a superb first year in Buffalo. He set the franchise record for passing yards (4,359), completions (375) and attempts (610), and became the last Bills quarterback to be voted to the Pro Bowl. In 2003, he had less of everything, including wins. After that season the Bills drafted Losman, and Bledsoe produced another so-so campaign under new coach Mike Mularkey. They almost managed to make the playoffs, dropping the final game of the season to Pittsburgh's backups. (48% winning percentage)
Draft a guy in a later round: Trent Edwards (2007-present)
In the 2007 draft, the Bills selected Edwards in the third round. At the time, Edwards was considered a value pick and a replacement at backup for the departed Holcomb. But Losman suffered a dirty an unfortunate injury, and Edwards stepped into the starter's role. Edwards won three of his first four starts, the lone loss being a heartbreaking MNF defeat at the hands of the Cowboys, before succumbing to injury himself. Upon his return, he won two more games, pushing his record to 6-1 as Bills starter and exciting the fan base. The Bills started hot again in 2008, rolling off four straight under Edwards. But over the course of the year wins, became fewer, though Edwards was still improving. So far to start the 2009 season, Edwards has appeared to show signs of regression, and is not considered by most fans to be the "next great franchise quarterback" anymore. (52% winning percentage)
Draft a top tier guy in the first 15 picks: None
In 2004, the Bills were rumored to be interested in trading up to select Ben Roethlisberger, but the Jaguars, the supposed other party, decided to draft the immortal Reggie Williams instead. The Bills have not had many high first-round picks, due in large part to trading them to obtain Johnson, Bledsoe and Losman. In 2006, the Bills passed on Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler to draft Donte Whitner (No. 8), and in 2007 decided against Brady Quinn in favor of Marshawn Lynch (No. 12).
The real problem with going down this road this year are the teams in front of the Bills in draft order (at least as it stands now). The Rams, Seahawks, Redskins, Raiders, Titans and Browns may all be in the market for a quarterback, and are ahead of Buffalo now, and will likely remain there. The Jaguars will also be picking in the vicinity of the Bills, and possibly will be searching for a quarterback. In order to secure their favorite player, the Bills may have to move up from around spot nine or ten into the top four picks. This type of move would be very costly, both in picks and salary, but would be the only way for Buffalo to guarantee selecting a top tier quarterback.
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The good news:
I sincerely doubt this team is good enough to get the wins needed for the 9-11 slots.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but that's discounting the sucktitude of the rest of league to out suck the sucky Bills.
If the draft was held today they’d be picking 10th.
by twoeightnine on Nov 5, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
think its time to draft a QB within the top 15 pick?
by csc06258 on Nov 5, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It may be time, but as I explained it, might not be the right year to do so.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good article.
It may be time, but as I explained it, might not be the right year to do so.
Not only that, but I’m not all that upset on the QBs they’ve recently passed up at high spots, Leinert and Quinn especially. Cutler, well, I’m still undecided about that.
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea i also agree. I am not too pumped about this years Q.B’s. They seem to all be O.K prospects. Whether or not you think he will be good or not, Tebow has the most potential to be good. It might take a couple years, but this fan base has proved it can be patient and i would take tebow in the bottom of the 2nd or early 3rd if he fell that far, just as a shot
by csc06258 on Nov 6, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post – I am still in favor of staying with what pick we have and grabbing a great DT (or if the Bills go to a 3-4 a NT). If Ellis/Maybin still aren’t producing I wouldn’t mind a DE in the 2nd round either.
Or the Bills could shore up the Oline – I really would love to see the Bills oncentrate on the trenches and then bring a QB for the 2011 season.
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by Ghetts on Nov 5, 2009 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s painfully obvious OL help is still this team’s biggest concern. Can’t throw. Can’t run. Can’t concentrate.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But isn't it going to take a good couple years for a DE to develop into the pro system?
So we would be taking another DE while we are still developing Maybin? I think I would look to the O-Line first and maybe even LB’s. QB in 2011 is intriguing…someone way down mentioned Mallett which could be exciting.
by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever the direction I hope Guy and Modrak are not in on making the decision
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 1:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Modrak wanted Cutler in 2006. Do you not think that Cutler would have been a better pick than Whitner?
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 6, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah… with you here, keysh.
It’s pretty easy to lump Guy and Modrak into one category because they’ve both been here for a while, but CLEARLY, Modrak has done an infinitely better job in Buffalo. I like Modrak. I think that he can run a draft, but he just hasn’t had the opportunity to do it because he doesn’t have final say, and nobody in the organization has enough authority.
I’d be OK with Modrak sticking around, because we’ve done as well in Rounds 3-7 as anyone in the league under his watch, and that’s on him. If other decision-makers vetoed him for top picks, that’s not his fault.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree
Modrak and the scouts are not the problem.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good recap Matt, what does all this mean going forward?
The Bills are unable to evaluate QB talent at the college and Pro level?? If so, better stick to drafting Oline men :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 1:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Bills are unable to evaluate QB talent at the college and Pro level?? If so, better stick to drafting Oline men :-)
I think it’s more they have been really unlucky and/or cash strapped. They have tried so many different ways and had varying levels of success. If one goes right for them they get all set.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unlucky?
As you point out the Bills have passed on guys like Cutler (and Ngata….) for guys like Whitner. I wouldn’t chalk that up to luck so much as poor decision making by the front office.
Getting back to the free agency options, if the Rams (Bulger), Seahawks (Hassleback), Redskins (can’t think of his name….but curiously remember he’s #17), Raiders (okay, they’ve got no one), Titans (Collins, Young) and Browns (Quinn) pick QBs there will be an unusually high numbe of free agent QBs available. True, Bulger, Hassleback and Collins are at the end of their careers while Young and Quinn have to overcome the Losman Effect. Leinart might be on the street as well if the new Cards regime decides to find their own successor to the soon to retire Warner.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Matt Leinart was available ahead of Cutler, too, right? What happens if the Bills draft Leinart. They get a top tier QB in the draft who turns out to be not as good.
Redskins guy is Jason Campbell.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is true but also irrelevant. The Bills made what in hindsight were a series of poor QB decisions since the retirement of Jim Kelly. Selecting a(nother) dud would have just been in keeping with tradition whereas taking a guy like Cutler would have turned out somewhat better. (Yes, I realize that Cutler might have turned out much different had he been drafted by the Bills, just as Losman might have had a very different career arc with another team.)
The current Inner Circle really has only taken one shot at the QB position—Trent Edwards. Losman was already on the team and I will give Jauron credit for giving him a chance to take the reins. When Losman proved incapable of delivering consistent positive results I again give Jauron credit for sitting Losman down and giving Edwards his shot.
Jauron added a playmaker in TO and a tight end with actual receiving potential (as yet unrealized) to maximize Edwards’ chances of success. The decision to move Walker to LT proved to be a poor one and contributed to the woes on the offensive line. I can’t exactly blame Jauron for starting Butler but, then again, Butler is a guy who has an unfortunate injury history. So, while the weapons are present, the protection hasn’t been up to snuff.
The real question is what the new regime will do. Perhaps there will be a sweetheart deal between the new GM and his former franchise a la Matt Cassel.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps there will be a sweetheart deal between the new GM and his former franchise a la Matt Cassel.
But they have tried the relatively unproven backup and the aging vet haven’t they? The only point is that they have tried virtually every strategy. What has worked? Whether it was Butler, Donahoe, or the Inner Circle.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel wasn't unproven
He went, what, 11-5? Yes, the AFC East had a pretty easy schedule last season but wins are wins. After all, the Bills managed only 7-9.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One season is hardly proven. Especially starting for a team that went 16-0 the year before.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
11 wins is more than Losman, Edwards, Collins, AVP, and Rob Johnson had combined.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In one year, sure. My point is that the team around him was very, very good too. And what exactly has he done in Kansas City to this point? He is far from proven.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They need to stop unloading draft picks, for one.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that but… if the Bills were able to trade up and get the guy they really wanted ala the Jets in 2009 with Sanchez, would you be that against it? It’s a QB league.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the one footnote I thought of adding. If it meant they could trade up and grab say, Locker, sure – you have to think they should do it. I really wasn’t hip on the QB situation, but i’m coming around on Locker more and more. He’s a specimen, and might still do well in a system without a great line.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Before you 'come around' on Locker any more
watch a game of his. I made a mental note that you said you just watched some film on him recently. That may or may not be highlights, but I see mostly Pac-10 games, and have seen my share of Jake. I believe he is SUPER hyped right now. Maybe that is because of the vacuum of pro-style prospects, but I imagine the rest of the season will tell more.
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by the Uncommon Denominator on Nov 5, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, especially unloading picks for bad players. If they were to score big on some, I’d be ok.
They traded up to get Levitre this year. Seems like a good move, with the way Byrd has turned out, but it’s still possible they might have just been able to get Levitre and Byrd without giving up a pick by just drafting Levitre first.
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this post says it all
It’s risky to take players in the draft anywhere. But if you’re going to risk it, you might as well go with the high-reward guys. At a position like Quarterback, a winning playoff team has to be solid. This front office has made a few decent picks in the middle and late rounds, but they’ve struck out about the same amount of time. I say we take a shot. I say that depending on where we finish up we make the effort to get in the pick range to take a top QB. We might finish in the top five, that would make it easier, or we might finish in the top ten-ish. Either way, unless we want to remain aimless offensively and continue to pick in the mid range, we’d do well to risk it this time.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 5, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If the front office had shown a habit of getting gems in the mid rounds
It might be different. But for every Kyle Williams you have a John McCargo, plus guys like Corner and Edwards who aren’t busts at their pick, but aren’t exactly steals either. That’s what I mean by the risk is worth it. I’d gladly give up two Reggie Corners and a Trent Edwards to get a Sam Bradford. It might bust, but it might boom. More than anything, it’s a serious attempt at getting back into the playoff-caliber ranks.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 5, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McCargo was a first-rounder, not a mid-rounder. Getting a second-year Nickel CB capable of starting (though average) in the fourth round? That doesn’t seem that bad to me. The Edwards situation was mis-handled, but I don’t think that was a bad draft strategy. They saw somebody relatively valuable that was slipping and took them. The problem was everything after that. If you take a mid- or late-round QB, you’ve got to have a plan to get them acclimated to the pros and not see the field for at least a year or two, even then in limited amounts. That didn’t happen.
You’re right that if you’ve got a chance to get one elite player in place of a few motivated-but-less-talented players, you should take the opportunity, but that doesn’t mean a team can do without late-round gems either.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know McCargo was a late first rounder, but he fits what I was saying. Regarding your summary statement, I agree, but I don’t think it’s that simple. As the draft is largely a crapshoot, you’re only trading potential value, not real value. If the 2010 Buffalo Bills have the opportunity to give up what may be some late round gems in exchange for what may be their franchise QB….it seems like an easy decision.
We could give up an entire draft class most years for a franchise QB. It’s that critical.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 6, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man this 10 year recap is depressing...
The Rams, Seahawks, Redskins, Raiders, Titans and Browns may all be in the market for a quarterback, and are ahead of Buffalo now, and will likely remain there.
Isn’t this Raider pick the Pats now?
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I believe thats not until 2011… if youre talking about the Seymore trade.
LETS GO BUFF-A-LO!!
by bflo on Nov 5, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quite right.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, I forgot it's '11, thanks!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which means it’ll be an even better pick in 2011! Patriots do things right most of the time, don’t they?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, unfortunately they are a well run organization, and they do things the right way. I wonder how it feels to have your org. run well…
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its crazy to see all the different methods theyve tried since jimbo left. And that none of them had any, even semi-long success. Sluss is right… its is depressing.
Heres to “next year” turning into “this year!!!!”
…. but not until next year haha
LETS GO BUFF-A-LO!!
by bflo on Nov 5, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's very depressing, indeed...
I believe that had we stuck with Flutie a couple more years we might’ve made the playoffs a couple more times in this decade. My god if we could’ve gotten Big Ben, that would’ve been the bees knees.
I still say sign Jason Campbell, keep Trent, and draft a developmental guy and have yourself a legit QB competition.
by live6453 on Nov 5, 2009 2:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I still say sign Jason Campbell, keep Trent, and draft a developmental guy and have yourself a legit QB competition.
This would only be a legit competition because Campbell and Edwards are practically the same QB.
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, no offensive line to speak of.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 5, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you there...
I guess this is where I start to get all anxious as a fan. If for some unholy reason we keep DJ and Co. then there will not likely be any QB competition to speak of, so who would be the next coach and would they shake it up? Gruden definitely would, but I see him on the sideline for the ‘Skins next year, I don’t know why…so assuming we need (or could really use) a QB competition and Gruden is far and away the most likely candidate to do just what we are looking for, but the Bills won’t get that candidate then who do we get and how does this happen? AHHH!
I am sure it will all work out, but sheesh!
by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Flutie situation really hurt this team. I understand he and Robbie Boy didn’t play nice together, but Flutie was the best thing going at QB since Jim Kelly.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that Flutie had an incredible rapport with the team’s best WR at the time, Moulds.
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flutie was a locker room cancer; we let him go at the right time. He was already beginning to tear the team apart a little bit, and proceeded to do more of the same with the Chargers.
by Skinny Mike on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cancer?
I’ve never heard anyone call Flutie a cancer. Johnson was the one with an attitude problem. Flutie was respected by his teammates and adored by the fans because he had heart. It’s not his fault that management stoked a QB controversy.
I agree with the above; if Flutie was given the starting job — and if we dumped Johnson early — we would’ve seen more success in Buffalo. Remember, the Titans went to the Super Bowl … maybe we could’ve lost another one, this time against the Rams! (joking).
Anyway, there’s a lesson in the Johnson debacle: When your QB demonstrates a flaw on such a consistent basis that he’s unlikely to overcome it, then dump him, instead of holding on and wishfully thinking that he’ll improve. The flaw might be an immutable aspect of who he is as a QB. In Johnson’s case, it was holding on to the ball too long. In JP’s case, it was inconsistency. In Trent’s case…
Sometimes, a QB is what he is, and we can’t expect him to change. As soon as we realize his immutable flaw, we shouldn’t be afraid to move on and search for a better option.
by Flutie Flakes on Nov 6, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the Buffalo News sportswriters (Bob Dicesare… I think) was particularly harsh on Flutie during his playing days with the Bills. Jerry Sullivan may have been too. It’s been many years. The basic gist at the time was DF’s tendency to cause internal discord. Larry Felser wrote his weekly Sunday column one week about the negative feedback the paper got about it, and was quite supportive of whichever writer it was, saying that what’s-his-face nailed it.
by Skinny Mike on Nov 6, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last time
we took a “top tier guy” in the top 15 was Kelly in ‘83 (14). TG that other league folded!The Sporting News mock draft has us picking 10th and taking a CB (Haden)! Like our brain trust needs help picking DBs! Yikes!
As mentioned, there are more teams needing QBs that will be ahead of us (unless we go 3-13). I think I’d still go OL or LB (Spikes) and build the trenches and hope for someone like Mallett the next year.
by fansince60 on Nov 5, 2009 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Even if we go 3-13 there is a chance the Titans, Redskins, Rams, Browns, and Raiders may be picking ahead of us.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except in the case of the Titans...
where it is Hello parity!
by Tatunka on Nov 5, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Spikes might be someone to avoid, given that he now likes to poke people in the eyes.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt that’s going to affect his draft position at all. Especially after he took himself out of the next game. Talent is talent. Just ask Albert Haynesworth.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 5, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I respected him a great deal for taking himself out; it said to me that he isn’t just another loose cannon. I wouldn’t mind taking him, but would prefer a top shelf QB if one is available.
by Skinny Mike on Nov 5, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about drafting a QB this year
I agree with Fansince60, seems to me that barring a very significant development of our young o-line in the offseason. Any quarterback we put in there will get too beat up to be successful or have an opportunity to really develop
by PFD on Nov 5, 2009 2:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's why we go get a veteran OL & QB, and draft a QB for the future.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the Colts drafted Peyton and he took his lumps behind a shotty OL. It can work. If your guy is there take him regardless of OL.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m definitely saying draft a top QB, and not OL. Get a veteran OL and let the veteran QB take any hits in the rebuilding of the line, so the rookie doesn’t get David Carr’d!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt, do you really think any of the QBs that are expected to be in this year's draft are the next Peyton Manning?
Peyton had it all. Physical tools, leadership, intangibles, pedigree …….. he was as close to a can’t miss QB as has ever been. If one of these guys are even close to Manning in these areas, I take him in a heart beat.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Which is why I think the Bills are behind the 8 ball in terms of addressing the QB need this offseason. At least three teams ahead of them needing QB. No good options on the FA market except Pennington who intrigues me. Kevin Kolb also intrigues me as a trade option, especially if the Bills happen to get a new head coach that has ties to the Eagles like Sean McDermott.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Range
I haven’t done a mock draft yet in the past two weeks where I’ve seen any scenario that Clausen or Locker falls past pick #5.
I think we need to look at Pennington, and draft Tebow or Ponder.
Tebow is a project, but after watching his footwork and mechanics over the course of Florida’s past two games, it’s all fixable.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ageed.... I would love to see the Bills take Tebow in the 2nd round.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 8, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And none of them worked, which doesn't surprise
Vets at the end of their careers, journeymen, questionable talent in the draft, mid rounders….all are more likely to fail than succeed. Its too bad this franchise has never really put every effort into replacing Kelly. Imagine if they could have traded up to get Roethlisberger. Too bad that never materialized.
This franchise needs to get much more proactive about getting a franchise QB. Hope they have a shot at one this Draft…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 3:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
that's why
on 1/3/09 as the team leaves the field, Jauron et al are told to keep going…and on 1/4/09 we get folks who are proactive about the draft and plan an attack that gets the biggest bang possible.
by fansince60 on Nov 5, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish it had happened in ’09. I think you mean ’10.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 5, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t Roethlisberger taken one spot ahead of Buffalo? It wouldn’t have cost all that much to hop the Steelers.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I alluded to in the article, WGR has spread the story rumor that Buffalo had a deal in place with Jacksonville contingent on Reggie WIlliams. If Williams fell the Jags wanted him. If he wasn’t available the Bills could trade up and get Big Ben. It really is a shame.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It really is a shame.
Not to Roethlisberger.
Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation--Seymour Skinner
by Ron From NM on Nov 5, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You never know. Maybe he would have won two Super Bowls here. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it worked out better since we traded up for Losman instead. Also, the first 4 non-Losman qb’s in that draft were Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Schaub.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is some dark humor right there
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 6, 2009 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ill take that Roethlisberger on weck, thanks.
by dragonwag0n on Nov 6, 2009 2:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was two spots ahead.
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering the coaching we have had over the course of Big Ben’s career, I don’t think we could’ve gotten anywhere near as much out of him as Pittsburgh has.
by Skinny Mike on Nov 5, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure the Raiders, Browns, and Titans
… can justify taking a QB that high after taking Russell, Quinn, and Young in the 1st so recently. I think these guys are going to opt for other positions. I know it’s a risk to think that way and just expect a QB to fall to us.
I think if you want to win, you’ve got to give up a lot to get there. The Jets (although they’re not winning a lot yet) traded away quite a bit to jump up and get Sanchez. They appear to have a guy that could lead their franchise for years to come.
In my opinion, this is a do or die situation. We can’t try and develop 2nd tier guys anymore, and we don’t need a short term fix by picking up a veteran past his prime. We HAVE TO get a top tier QB in this draft.
Get ourselves an OT and OLB in free agency (we don’t need to get younger at those positions anyway). And grab a DT round 2. Maybe an OG in round 3 to develop as a backup as well.
We’re close to being a good team. But the MOST crucial position right now for us is the QB.
by bruuuuce_02 on Nov 5, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
a bit premature
They appear to have a guy that could lead their franchise for years to come.
After the Jets games everyone said we won that game because of how bad he was. If he was playing here this blog would be tearing him apart as the Jets season is flushed away. The grass is always greener….
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Single Wing
Great post. What a litany of failure and frustration. I say let’s just go to the single wing and forgot about the quarteback.
by jpheff on Nov 5, 2009 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Seconded.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In order to secure their favorite player, the Bills may have to move up from around spot nine or ten into the top four picks.
This would be a huge move. Bigger than the TO signing. That would impress me, even if I disagree with it (ala TO.)
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by the Uncommon Denominator on Nov 5, 2009 6:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No doubt it would be huge. It’s something this team has never done. It’s not something I would necessarily advocate either. In a small market you need to draft well. That means you need a lot of picks. If the Bills trade up with picks it would hinder other areas of the team. That is for teams that are comfortable in every position except one or two. The Bills will not be. I don’t see the Bills trading up into the top 4 but I can see them picking a QB wherever they draft.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m interested to see how many teams actually have a “franchise quarterback” right now. Are the Bills in the same boat as many other teams out there? It seems to get harder and harder to find that franchise quarterback, since many teams are in the “win now” mindset. I’m gonna put my vote on the O-Line or Defensive playmaker in the first round at this point.
by BillieverSince89 on Nov 5, 2009 6:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At least eight teams don't.
Patriots: Brady
Dolphins: Chad Henne??
Jets: Matt Sanchez (They certainly hope so)
Bills: nope
Browns: nope
Ravens: Joe Flacco
Steelers: Big Ben
Bengals: Carson Palmer
Titans: nope
Colts: Manning
Texans: Schaub
Jaguars: nope
Raiders: nope
Broncos: Kyle Orton?
Chargers: Phillip Rivers
Chiefs: Matt Cassell?
Giants: Manning
Redskins: nope
Eagles: McNabb
Cowboys: Romo
Bucs: nope
Saints: Brees
Falcons: Matt Ryan
Panthers: nope
Seahawks: Hasselbeck
Niners: nope
Cardinals: Warner
Rams: Bulger?
Bears: Cutler
Packers: Rodgers
Vikings: Favre
Lions: Stafford
You could put a bunch of other teams into the mix if you wanted to as well.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of "Nope."
Competent NFL quarterbacks should be declared an endangered species. If it were as easy as taking one of the top 3 college prospects this would not be the case. It appears to be somewhere between a complete crapshoot and a dark art. The Bills don’t have much of a track record as this post demonstrates. As my other posts indicate, I believe it is very hard to break away from your own history unless you make a radical break in the right direction. In recent history, the Bills have done that once and it was the Polian-Levy era. Since then Mattrichwarren has documented the futility of the organization.
IMO do not trade up for a marguee name. Let’s not go against the odds and try to pick a pearl from the oysters. Take offensive linemen. A great offensive line makes an average QB competent. Just give him the extra second to throw the ball.
by jpheff on Nov 5, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think we are in a time of great QB play. There are great QBs and crappy ones. Not a whole lot of mediocre.
Since then Mattrichwarren has documented the futility of the organization.
It wasn’t designed to be an indictment of the organization. It was more that the Bills haven’t found the right guy. Butler had to select in the top three picks to get Phillip Rivers in San Diego. He failed miserably in Buffalo trying to replace Kelly, too. It happens to good GMs. Look at Polian’s pick of Kerry Collins for instance.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 5, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean this Kerry Collins?
2008 Tennessee Titans
Record: 13-3-0, Finished 1st in AFC South Division
NFL Season Summary
Scored 375 points (23.4/g), 14th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 234 points (14.6/g), 2nd.
Differential of 141 points (8.8/g), 1st.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by the Uncommon Denominator on Nov 5, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, how many years and teams later, though?
. 2010 Bills truth in advertising: "Look out Cleveland, this year we score 6!" - bluecollarbuffalo
by thefourwinds on Nov 5, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Bad QB. Shoulda picked better. ;)
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by the Uncommon Denominator on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. That one. The one who played only 3.5 years for Polian’s Panthers. He never eclipsed 2717 yards for them, threw more TDs than INTs only once (14-9 in 1996), and who was adequate last year on a team with a great defense.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget the surprisingly inspired run game that bailed him out.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree but
“futility” and “indictment” are very different. I said futility, not indictment and I think you are saying the same thing. Finding the right guy at QB remains a very, very high risk proposition. The cost of being wrong in the top ten picks of the draft are enormous. What I am advocating is to avoid that level of risk and instead go to the less glamorous draft strategy of building the infrastructure of an offensive line and to manage the QB position in the later rounds of the draft and retreads. I would like to hear from our fellow Rumblers about any GM who has chosen more than one “franchise” QB.
by jpheff on Nov 5, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you didn’t say indictment. I was saying it’s a crapshoot just as much as it is skilled talent evaluation.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rams - Nope (Bulger done there), Cardinals - Nothing long term in Warner, decision on Leinart?
Same with Vikings and Farve… year to year.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s define a franchise QB as a guy who is still going to be with the team as the starter in 3-5 years unless they leave via a huge contract in FA:
franchise QBs (14):
Patriots – Tom Brady
Ravens – Joe Flacco
Steelers – Ben Roethlisberger
Bengals – Carson Palmer
Colts – Peyton Manning
Texans – Matt Schaub
Chargers – Phil Rivers
Giants – Eli Manning
Eagles – Donovan McNabb
Cowboys – Tony Romo
Saints – Drew Brees
Falcons – Matt Ryan
Bears – Jay Cutler
Packers – Aaron Rodgers
Just too old to still be the franchise(3):
Vikings – Brett Favre
Cardinals – Kurt Warner
Seahawks – Matt Hasselbeck
Starters with the potential to be the future, some of these are generous(6):
Lions – Drew Stafford
Jets – Matt Mark Sanchez
Bucs – Josh Johnson
Chiefs – Matt Cassel
Miami – Chad Henne
Tenneessee – Vince Young
Teams stuck in limbo with decent QBs(2):
Denver – Kyle Orton
Jacksonville – David Garrard
Ready to invest in a new QB and start over(7):
Buffalo – Trent Edwards
Oakland – JaMarcus Russel
Cleveland – Anderson/Quinn
Washington – Jason Campbell
Carolina – Jake Delhomme
SF – Alex Smith/Hill
St. Louis – Marc Bulter
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 6, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
And maybe we might put McNabb in the ‘not going to be there in 3 to 5 years’ category?
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by the Uncommon Denominator on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That has to be the 10th time I’ve done that. I’m MRWing more often than Matt does himself. It’s what I get for posting in the middle of the night. I’m sure the beer doesn’t help either.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t done it in a while. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which rounds were they drafted?
It’d be helpful to analyze the crap-shoot that is of the NFL draft if we know which rounds were these QBs drafted.
Does drafting a QB in the first round gives the Bills better chances of landing a franchise QB? I’m not sure history says so.
Bills fan half way around the world
by moncheri on Nov 7, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are so few solid qb’s that have been drafted outside of the first round. I know people will point to Brady and Romo being a late-rounder and a UDFA, respectively, but they are 2 successes out of so many average qb’s.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 7, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s something we’ll take a lot at in the offseason (or sooner) no doubt.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 7, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bills need to stop drafting Whitners, McKelvins, and Maybins with the high round draft choices
This is the part of the draft where you have one shot at getting premier playmakers on your roster when the draft falls to you and we have consecutively filled it with secondary support and defensive guys that haven’t had a huge impact.
Let’s face it… Ralph does not like to over pay for unproven players and QB’s command the most money at top 15 picks. We haven’t done it when we’ve needed it since Kelly retired. Yeah there was always a “Plan B”, but they obviously haven’t worked out.
IMO Bills won’t do it again… They will give Edwards another year to figure it out and probably bring in another middle tier guy to compete with Edwards that is a better fall back option than Fitzpatrick. Should Edwards fail, then he plays out his contract and like Losman is not resigned. Bills go QB with a top draft choice as needed. If he works out, the Bills try to resign him, but Edwards could walk in the end of his Free Agent year. The Bills will delay any decision on this. The only guy I see them making a move for is a Troy Smith from Baltimore who might be available as an RFA.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree that we need to stop drafting perennial prospects.
We also need stop letting go our best talent.
On the other hand, I believe on Fitzpatrick. He is simply a strong minded fierce competitor.
I would not draft a top ten QB without a good OL.
IMO, the bigget thing Bills strongly need is STOP RALPH PLAYING LIVE FANTASY FOOTBALL AND DOING FOOTBALL RESEARCH.
All of our dreams can come true -- if we have the courage to pursue them.
Walt Disney
by vicman on Nov 5, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I miss something? What’s the fantasy football deal?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope all those teams pick QBs
so that the Bills can get a stud defensive player.
Also, I think the solution is to
1) Keep Edwards
2) Bring in another vet (Pennington)
3) Draft a good QB that drops down the board (LeFevour, Hiller, other)
4) Start whichever veteran wins the competition and see if the rookie has made strides to start the following season, and, if not…
5) Draft a higher QB next year
My logic is that the Bills should get set on defense and the o-line first, and then just be able to insert a well prepared QB who will have the tools around him to succeed, even if it means that there is yet another non-playoff year coming. It’s definitely worth it to have a consistent winner set for the following years.
by tpsabres on Nov 5, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree
Get the pieces in place then let a rookie QB settle into a good situation a year or two down the road. Actually give a guy a chance to succeed
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
Buffalo Rumblings
by partyboybackformore on Nov 5, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record
in their 50 year history the Bills have taken a quarterback 3 times in the first round; 1960 with their first draft pick ever the Bills took the immortal Richie Lucas; 1983 H of F Jim Kelley; and 2004, now starring for the Las Vegas Locomotives, J.P. Losman.
by jpheff on Nov 6, 2009 8:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Joe Ferguson was a 57th overall pick. Jack Kemp was signed off the Chargers practice squad but was really the Chargers starter until he got hurt.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kemp was injured when he was signed
I don’t think he was on the practice squad. I think the Chargers waived him, possibly?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They waived him to add him to the practice squad because he was injured. You are correct. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Insight into OBD thought process
The Bills have a similar list to Kaisertown’s. The Bills braintrust at OBD decided they will not draft a QB. Why? Because, after much internal discussion, they concluded that “Matt” is the most popular QB name (Schaub, Ryan, Hasselbeck, Stafford,Cassel, Leinart). There are no QBs in 2010 named Matt. BUT, they are going to do the next best thing….bring in Matt Millen as director of player personnel in charge of the 2010 draft. Can you say “Home Run”??!!
by fansince60 on Nov 6, 2009 8:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What about Matt Warren? I could help. :-) Not at QB, though.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CORRECTION...
The Bills have drafted a QB in the first 15 picks…his name is Jim Kelly.
I realize the article is about what happened post-kelly, but that should just go to show you that, even though you tried every other angle to get a QB, the only thing that has worked for us is the high draft pick guy…
Just sayin’
by Slick Shifty on Nov 6, 2009 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And for every guy its worked for you have a Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch.
We signed Jack Kemp after he was waived by the Chargers and Joe Ferguson was a third round pick.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MRW,
I thought I was agreeing with the point to your whole article…
since you are proving me wrong, what is the point of your article?
by Slick Shifty on Nov 9, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Matt wrote it just to print fact. I didn’t see him make an argument there. He wrote it so that y’all could draw your own conclusions.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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