Rumblings Draft Scouting: Quarterbacks with a Pro Tweak
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 7:47 AM EST
in News
133 comments
In light of recent discussions we've been having around these parts - namely, the future of the Buffalo Bills' quarterback position - we thought it'd be an opportune week to provide a slight tweak to our regular Thursday scouting piece. Rather than simply talking about the week in college football, talking up (or talking down) prospects, or ranking players at positions as we've done in the past, we thought this week would be ideal to apply this type of post to the Bills.
Yesterday, we discussed the fact that Trent Edwards probably won't be realizing his full potential as a pro quarterback in a Bills uniform. It also isn't a lock that the Bills will look to the 2010 NFL Draft for a replacement should it come to that. With that in mind, we took a look not only at the top collegiate quarterbacks playing right now, but the list of current pro quarterbacks scheduled to hit free agency in 2010, as well.
The result of that effort is this post - a look at our top ten quarterback prospects for the Bills to peruse through should they be seeking a new starting quarterback this coming March. Please note that, in true 'beauty lies in the eye of the bolder' fashion, we're not actually campaigning for the Bills to go out and get any of these players. Not yet, anyway. This is merely a ranking of quarterbacks that might be available next spring - and for those who might not, we'll discuss those options briefly as well. It's all after the jump.
1. Jake Locker, Washington Huskies (JR)
As each day passes, Locker creeps closer to becoming the consensus top quarterback prospect in the nation. At the very least, he's viewed by NFL personnel men league-wide as the quarterback with the best mix of skills available as it presently stands. Locker's stats aren't great, but numbers never tell the whole story, anyway. He's only 21 years old, so he's got some maturing to do - and truth be told, he'd be best served by finishing out his career at UW. Given the Sam Bradford Factor, however, that's looking less likely to happen by the day.
Locker's got an NFL body, an NFL arm, and plenty of hard-to-spot qualities such as leadership, pocket awareness, creativity and a short learning curve. Those last traits are why he's so high on scouts' boards right now. It would be risky for an NFL team without an established offensive line and a patient front office and fan base to install him as an immediate starter, but there's little question that as far as college quarterbacks go, Locker is the closest thing to a sure bet that you can currently find. (Which obviously doesn't make him a sure bet at all, but that's beside the point.) Unfortunately, in order to acquire him, a team would probably need the No. 1 overall pick.
2. Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame Fighting Irish (JR)
We like Clausen for a few reasons. First and foremost, he's having a terrific junior season, and he's putting up big numbers and playing clutch football against some really solid opponents. We also like the fact that he's overcome some seriously ridiculous expectations as a highly-touted recruit and is performing well in his third year under Charlie Weis. If you play clutch football in the face of high expectations at a big-time school, you're going to impress a lot of people - and Clausen has definitely done that this year. People will nit-pick his Philip Rivers-like throwing motion, but forget about that - Clausen is a legitimate NFL talent with a bright future.
3. Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (UFA)
First off - the shoulder. Despite early reports that his third shoulder injury could jeopardize his career, Pennington's season-ending surgery actually revealed minimal damage to the rotator cuff that he's had repaired twice previously in his career. As it stands right now, Pennington is expected to be cleared to resume throwing this winter. If he decides to continue playing - and if he's healthy, why wouldn't he? - he'll be an unrestricted free agent, as he signed a two-year deal with Miami back in August of 2008. Pennington obviously has limitations to his game, but if a new coach doesn't want to install a rookie and wants to win right away, Pennington absolutely still has the leadership and game management skills to get the job done, even at age 34 (in June of 2010). If Buffalo is looking for a veteran stopgap to provide some influence for a young guy - even Trent Edwards! - Pennington is a perfect fit.
4. Sam Bradford, Oklahoma Sooners (JR)
Yes, his shoulder injury is a concern, but it's not a major one. He did, after all, return to the Oklahoma lineup briefly, and even upon exiting once again, it was revealed that the injury had not worsened. That's the good news. Bradford has clearly enjoyed an illustrious and highly productive career at Oklahoma, but entering his junior campaign, many scouts wondered aloud if he'd be able to thrive behind a re-tooled Sooners offensive line. The obvious answer to that question is 'no.' Bradford also needs to learn to play under center, but no one questions his accuracy and strong decision-making. He's got the tools to be an excellent pro quarterback, but right now, the questions surrounding Bradford are slightly bigger than those surrounding Locker and Clausen.
5. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas Razorbacks (SO)
Yes, he's only a sophomore. No, he's not anywhere near being ready to take over an NFL franchise - heck, he hasn't even turned Arkansas into a serious contender in the SEC yet. Yes, he would be extremely intelligent to stay in school, particularly considering the fact that if he waits even a single year, he has No. 1 pick potential. But in terms of college quarterbacks, no single prospects oozes as much jaw-dropping potential as the 6'7", 238-pound sophomore with the strongest arm in the nation. He has tremendous strides that need to be achieved in areas such as leadership, poise (especially on the road), and accuracy. But you can bet large sums of dinero that NFL scouts have noticed this kid's raw talent. He has first-round potential this year, and if he stays in school to learn for one more year (or two) under Bobby Petrino, he might just be considered the "next great thing" at the position in 2011 or 2012.
6. Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (UFA)
The Redskins are a mess, and very little of it is Campbell's fault. The guy has absolutely no support from his organization - they recruited Brett Favre and Mark Sanchez heavily, after all, even with Campbell still on the roster - and his coaches have gone through more coordinators than even Buffalo has. Through it all, he's managed to put up at least respectable career numbers (60.7% completions, 8,723 yards, 43 TD, 40 INT, 81.2 QB rating). He'll only turn 28 this December. He's got an immense amount of untapped potential. Time is running short on some potentially lucky team's ability to tap into that potential, but a change of scenery could do the embattled Campbell a world of good.
7. Christian Ponder, Florida State Seminoles (JR)
No college quarterback has made greater gains this season than Ponder, a junior enjoying a fantastic season at Florida State. He's not the ideal prospect - though he's a great athlete with a good arm, he lacks prototypical NFL size - but even considering that fact, Ponder has legitimate 2010 NFL Draft prospects given how excellent he's been this season. You'll find more talented players and you'll find guys with better intangibles, but Ponder gets the job done. It'll be interesting to see how his '09 season concludes - if he keeps up his red-hot streak, he could solidify himself as a first-round pick next April.
8. Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos (UFA)
Orton has established himself as the ultimate game manager in the NFL. He's got massive limitations and will never put up big numbers, but he's still found a way to start his career with a 27-13 record. He's listed as a free agent at the moment, but considering Denver's season, if they keep winning, there's only a minimal chance that he'd hit the open market. Josh McDaniels likes him, and if Denver isn't in a position to bring in a quarterback more to McDaniels' liking, they definitely won't let Orton walk.
9. Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (UFA)
He was drafted too early in 2006, and though that isn't an indictment of him as a player, it helps explain some of the expectations he's failed to meet in Minnesota. Jackson has, however, proven himself capable of playing at high levels, as he guided the Vikings to a playoff appearance in 2008 while throwing 9 TD to just 2 INT as a part-time starter. He's only marginally accurate and still has massive inconsistency issues to work through, but he's a phenomenal athlete that can hurt you with his legs, and his arm is pristine. With Brett Favre only in the first of a two-year deal and Sage Rosenfels in tow, it's not inconceivable that the Vikings let Jackson walk. He'll be 27 next April.
10. Jevan Snead, Mississippi Rebels (JR)
Snead makes this list based on his NFL measurables and rocket arm alone, because to say that he's been crushed by massive pre-season expectations this year is an understatement. Snead is having an awful junior year at Ole Miss. The hype was well-founded - Snead threw 26 touchdowns and 13 picks as a redshirt sophomore in the SEC - but he's shown highly questionable decision-making skills in a junior campaign that has seen him throw another 13 picks already (to 15 touchdowns) while completing just 51.5% of his passes. He'd be insane to enter the 2010 NFL Draft, and he probably won't. But if he does, teams will absolutely look at him as early as the second round based on his talent level alone.
In addition, these players and/or quarterback situations are worth closely monitoring. As it stands right now, none of these players will be available via the Draft or free agency next off-season, but the chance exists that one or all will be released or traded.
Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb, Philadelphia Eagles. McNabb seems as if he's constantly on the cusp of being moved, and Kolb put up gaudy statistics in brief appearances earlier this season while McNabb was injured. Andy Reid's a bold guy. If he decides to stick with McNabb for the remainder of the latter's career, Kolb is tasty trade bait; it works in reverse if Reid decides it's Kolb time in Philly.
Kerry Collins and Vince Young, Tennessee Titans. It's not likely that Young leaves Tennessee any time soon considering owner Bud Adams' affinity for him, but if Young continues to play well during the remainder of the '09 season, Collins - a wily veteran who wasn't at all pleased by the decision to bench him in favor of Young - might be on his way out of town. He, too, would make a nice veteran stopgap for a younger player, but as of right now, he's under contract for 2010.
Kurt Warner and Matt Leinart, Arizona Cardinals. Warner signed a two-year deal this past off-season and is likely to wrap up his career in Arizona at the conclusion of the 2010 season. If he decides to retire a year early, Leinart takes over the reigns. But Leinart isn't a player that Ken Whisenhunt acquired, and if Warner sticks around beyond '09 and Whisenhunt sees a young guy he likes better, Leinart could be on the move.
Marc Bulger, St. Louis Rams. He's been terrible in St. Louis for a few seasons now, but he can't accept all of the blame for that, given the Rams' inability to get players to protect him. It'll be really hard for the Rams to part ways for him, considering his cap hits from 2010 through 2013 equal $46 million, but if he does leave St. Louis, he, too, has the look of a passable stopgap option.
Brady Quinn, Cleveland Browns. Cleveland is a mess, and even though Eric Mangini didn't fall in love with Quinn immediately, it's unlikely a new regime will. He does have some talent, but some personality quirks have turned some heads over the past couple of years as well. Still, in the way of young signal-callers with some untapped potential, Quinn is at least worth discussing, isn't he?
That's the list, folks. It's up to you to formulate opinions (or just share the ones you've already formulated) on whether or not any of these names are more desirable than Trent Edwards'.
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aren't you forgetting 2 guys?
Dan Lefevour CMU
Tim Tebow FLA
Both are spread offense guys, and having seen him play in person, I like Lefevour
by freddyjj on Nov 5, 2009 8:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
LeFevour is a mid-round prospect, and there’s no way he’d make a Top 10 list. There are some aspects of his game that I like, but he probably won’t be a starter in the NFL.
Tebow doesn’t make the list simply because he’s got too much work to do on his mechanics to be considered starter-worthy next year. Remember – this is a list of potential starting quarterbacks in 2010.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why will it take so long to fix Tebow's mechanics?
He is a smart kid. The coaches at the Senior Bowl will certainly try to fix his footwork and throwing motion. If he doesn’t show some improvement after that, I might be a be more inclined to take Tebow off the list of possible starters at that point. Don’t get me wrong, Tebow would be better off sitting for at least a year, but won’t most of these guys?
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said it’d take forever. It’d take a year. Yes, the argument can be made that it would do all of those young guys some good to sit for year, but I left Tebow off the list because he HAS TO sit. The other guys don’t, even if it would be advisable.
For the record, I love Tebow’s NFL potential. He’s just not a player that can start at QB as a rookie.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not forever...but longer than one off season ? ....Senior Bowl through training camp
Maybe….maybe not. Probably so
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Tebow’s NFL potential.
Well there’s your problem
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 6, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, but also agree with Brian
Tebow is a project. He’s a project that I would take on in a heartbeat.
How I’d play all this:
First move: sign Pennington. He’s proven. Despite his pop gun arm, he’ll immediately help to bring a change to the culture of the team. This helps Edwards, and potentially a new QB, by giving them some time to develop. Don’t give up on Edwards… sitting behind Kerry Collins may have saved Vince Young’s career.
Second move: draft Okung or Bulaga in the first round (or McCoy if he drops). With Pennington and Edwards, the pressure to get a high first round QB is less. Better to build the team up for the QB IMO.
Third move: draft Tebow. Perfect situation behind a proven starter in Pennington, and Edwards is the clear second string. Fix Tebow’s mechanics and footwork (which, from when I’ve watched him, are very fixable) and let him hold the clipboard on Sunday’s for a year.
BTW, CFB Notes Week 9.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 5:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good plan....sign me up
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 8, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just for discussion...
dominic randolph, holy cross…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/sports/ncaafootball/03holycross.html?_r=1&ref=sports
by dav630 on Nov 5, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like the addition of UFAs
Agree with the rationale, but still a little surprised to see Pennington that high on the list.
by TJJ on Nov 5, 2009 8:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m not surprised to see Pennington there. He’s very familiar with the AFC East for one thing. He’s accomplished as a game manager, which is something the guys the Bills have now try to be, but aren’t successful at.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree re: Mallett
would love to see him in red. white, blue, someday. He will be special. On the UFAs, Pennington would help a young QB. I think he’s done that with Henne. But, if we had to play him, it would take only hours to start hearing the “no downfield threat” chants again.
Campbell would definitely have more upside potential to step in and make an impact. But, who knows what swirls in $nyder’$ head?
by fansince60 on Nov 5, 2009 8:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I am particularly intrigued by the Pennington option. If his shoulder is healthy I really think his skill set and leadership intangibles might make him a valuable commodity for the Bills
It rubs the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again
by Jax Bills Fan on Nov 5, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think he’d be a fine QB coach, but his lack of mobility and arm strength doesn’t seem like the best band-aide solution for this team right now.
by TJJ on Nov 5, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re talking about next year, not right now. I sincerely doubt we go into 2010 with the same offensive line we’ve got now.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I get that, I shouldn’t have said “right now” in my post, sorry.
by TJJ on Nov 5, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No need to apologize. :)
His lack of mobility and arm strength didn’t hurt Miami much last season, and their line was still developing at that point (though obviously it was much better then than Buffalo’s is now, and now it’s the best unit in the league). But I’ll let sireric do the defending of Pennington.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as much as I hate to say it
Miami’s plan is working. Pennington held them together while they built the OL(albeit their 08 schedule was soft) and he helped develop Henne as well. If we concentrate on the OL, Edwards could have a chance to prove his worth or lack thereof once and for all. Bring in a vet FA QB, just in case, and shoot for a Mallett the following year. IMO the OL is a higher priority. One only needs to watch Miami’s OL operate (god I hate saying that). It hides a lot of QB sins.
by fansince60 on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that, Miami established there ID as a run team and do so effectively. Chad is a great fit for that offense. His last couple years with the Jets however were not very impressive (granted health played a part in this) and I am weary that this might translate more to how he would do in Buffalo.
I do like the idea of having a veteran step in while we try to establish a franchise QB. I just feel like we’ve seen this QB before and without any success. It would be nice to take a gamble on a QB with more playmaking potential if Trent can’t establish himself with this team.
by TJJ on Nov 5, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two models to choose from?
(1) The “Detroit” model: Go out and draft a stud young QB and plug him into a terrible team where he will either sink or swim.
(2) The “New York” model: Build a solid offensive line first and let your franchise QB grow into the role.
I like the second model best. I’d rather see us pick up a caretaker QB for a year and make damn sure we’ve got a solid OL and other pieces in place before we go after a franchise QB who will just end up getting injured or shell-shocked Detroit-style if we thrown him in now. OK, that may mean another 7-9 season, but I don’t think we can look at a QB as a saviour for our team as it stands now.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like there’s a lot to choose from. I’d be really wary of Pennington’s shoulder, but as the post says, he might be a good stopgap if he can still throw (not that arm strength was ever his trademark). Bulger I haven’t seen play this year, but what I’ve heard isn’t good. Lots of names there of players who seemed to have all kind of potential that didn’t pan out: Jackson, Quinn, Leinart. I’d be most interested in Leinart if he actually becomes available. But I don’t think that’s likely.
by Applsoss on Nov 5, 2009 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Let's build the lines first then worry about getting a franchise QB.
Of course we also need to go and get a decent OC, and QB coach who can develop them into something we don’t perpetually complain about.
by Bills Prof on Nov 5, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
Thank you — just what I’d logged in to say. Drafting a QB in an early round means we don’t draft an OT in an early round.
Frustrating thing is, you never know how good a QB is until there’s a decent line. Sure, I don’t think Trent is much good, but deep down there’s a seed of doubt. Gotta build that line — you know if a line is good regardless of the QB.
A team with a good line will always win games. Not so a team with a good QB.
by beelove on Nov 5, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's more than one round that could be considered early.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 6, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Leinart’s a lefty though… Changes up a lot on the Line. I don’t think he’s worth retooling the Line for…
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Nov 5, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One could argue that with Butler at RT, our line is better to defend the weak side of a lefthanded QB. Still, Right DE’s still are the game’s best and most likely won’t cross over just to play on the QB’s blind side. So, having a better LT is still the desired effect. I just talked myself in a circle I realize. Just trying to give some evidence that the Lefty QB doesn’t really change the line does it?
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vick should be available....
Of course that is if we want the first pick of the draft the following year.
by Bills Prof on Nov 5, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll comment on a few of the pro players first...
First, McNabb: If Philly is foolish enough to turn him loose, Buffalo should spend whatever it takes to get him. Ever since his infamous draft booing, i’ve felt that city didn’t deserve him.
Pennington seems like a very attractive option. He’s intelligent and accurate, and he never rocks the boat. I’d also be happy if they snagged Jason Campbell. He’s a talented player.
I’m not sold on Brady Quinn. He seems a lot like Trent Edwards.
Of the draft prospects: Locker seems to have “it.” But i’m not sold on his transition to the pros. I’m more worried than most about Clausen simply because Brady Quinn enjoyed the same type of success under Weis. That system seems set up for the QB to excell. The question is will it translate to the pro level, or is Clausen just a product of Weis’ system?
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Are you reading my mind?
I agree with everything you said. Although the domer in me wants to believe that Jimmy and Brady will be stars someday, somewhere.
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Leinart
I would like to have Leinart as I believe he will end up a good QB. He would be my #1 on that list but I don’t think he will be available. As you will see based on my assessment of the available free agents I think we have to draft a Rookie QB in the first round. .
FA:
Bulger: Could come cheap since the Rams spent a lot on him. An injury prone veteran who has not been very good outside the dome….not a good fit.
Kolb: I like Kolb, but at what price does it take to get him. Best and only FA QB I would have interest in, but I am by no means sold on his talent.
Collins: Too old. Rather see a rookie. His teammates appeared to quit on him when things went bad this year.
Pennington: Never had great arm strength to begin with. Now another injury. I am not a believer.
Campbell: I don’t know if he is an upgrade to Edwards. He makes a lot of mental mistakes and does not seem to have good pocket awareness.
Orton: He won’t be available unless Denver completely falls apart
Jackson: I don’t believe in him in bad weather. He has a turnover problem to begin with. Needs to play in a dome or warm weather.
Quinn: He couldn’t beat out Anderson. That is a very bad sign.
Unless, they really like Kolb (or by some miracle Leinart becomes available) the best option is to go draft a QB.
by Berg79 on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think all the vets are named in addition to the fact that we need a young QB.
This franchise would be stupid to sign a Pennington or Campbell and not draft a QB highly to groom.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Pennington continues the pattern, he gives you one good year to groom a younger guy before he’s injured / stinks again. That’s not really a bad thing. He might not want it, but Pennington can probably be gotten on a one year deal.
by syrbillsfan on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I say Collins....
As I think he still has a year or two left. Not the long term solutions but a person with a good head for the game that is more than a game manager until we have the young up and coming QB ready for the big lights….
This year, i will agree he has been bad but he has more upside based on past performance for making a difference now with the young talent we have.
But again this is purely a temp plan for the bigger plan which is a guy like Clausen in my mind.
I see him as a guy similar to Warner, who with the right weapons can do exactly what we want. Which is simply to win football games in the interim before we find that dominant QB.
by MikeEverett08 on Nov 5, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SIMMS?
Chris Simms could come cheap from Denver.. I didn’t see him on any lists. Plus we know Gruden is familiar with him.
by dav630 on Nov 5, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you’re thinking. Simms looked good before getting hurt in preseason, and I would love to see Gruden at the helm.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes Dav!!
I too am shocked Simms is not on the list. I think he has serious potential to be comeback player of the year in the near future for some team whether its the Bucs, Bills, Raiders, or Rams.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 5, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulger
Not just a dome QB. He played roughly 2 games in a dome during his college career and was obviously pretty good then
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of taking a chance on quinn in the offseason – the browns now have a new gm, and with the way mangini is doing, they may have a new coach next season. I’m assuming clausen stays in, but that will depend entirely on the situation with charlie weis.
Best plan of action may to try and sign a guy like campbell to a 2 or 3 yr deal and then pick up a top flight qb in this draft or next year, while attempting to build a line for the draft pick to inherit.
by quantumuprising on Nov 5, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like Edwards and Jauron, Weis and Clausen’s fates are tied to each other. It would take a collossal collapse at this point of the season by the Irish to send Weis packing. He isn’t making ND alums super happy with the 2 losses already and a 3rd would make them irate, but his recruiting classes will give him another year unless they lose 2 more games (bowl not included) to either Navy, Pitt, UConn or Stanford.
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Collins to Clausen
He’ll give you 2 strong years to develop Clausen… I like taking two of the options if available.
Besides McNabb I think Collins is the best Vet. He still has a Big arm and is very accurate on the short passes. Any Rookie could learn a lot as his understudy.
Plus with our inexperience on the O-line, Collins has the ability to get rid of the ball quickly.
by MikeEverett08 on Nov 5, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen Collins this year?
He’s playing like he was washed up 3 years ago. Its been a brutal go of it for him this year. Maybe he can turn it around for a year, but I wouldn’t bet on it. He has less mobility than Joe P after a whiskey bender, so I don’t think hed work behind our OL unless that unit improves dramatically in one offseason.
Basically, I think I like other vets better…though wouldn’t be opposed to Collins if he still has some juice in him…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 10:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I am very mobile.....I just call a cab :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
by Joe P. on Nov 5, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did we just go full circle and consider Todd Collins?
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Year of Eligibility
I think it would be much less confusing if reporting on college players was done by year of eligibility instead of with the usual names. Above you used ‘redshirt sophomore’ which should be ‘redshirt freshman’ as far as eligibility is concerned. Snead was a college sophomore yes, but as far as eligibility, he was a freshman. It would be easier if the NCAA would make everyone use 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. (Maybe 5th for those given an extra year for medical reasons).
So Snead had a good season in his 1st year of eligibility. In his 2nd, he has succumbed top the weight of lofty pre-season expectations.
That seems clearer to me anyway… anyone else agree? It kind of regards a red-shirt as year 0.
by syrbillsfan on Nov 5, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A redshirt Freshman is a player with Freshman eligibility who has redshirted. Therefore he has been out of HS for 2 years. Redshirt Sophomores are players with Sophomore eligibility who have redshirted one year, hence being out of HS for 3 years and making them eligible for the NFL draft, etc. Mallet is a redshirt Sophomore. He played his freshman year at Michigan, then transferred as a sophomore because RichRod brought in the spread option and due to NCAA rules had to sit out one year. I agree it is confusing, but the redshirt just means they’ve been in school, or out of HS as it matters in NFL draft eligibility, for an extra year. The year (freshman, so, jr, sr) tells how much eligibility they have remaining
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
by willgarr15 on Nov 6, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just watched some video on Locker
the kid can move, wow.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pennington
I have such an irrational hatred of Pennington, I’d be livid if they brought him in. It makes some sense on paper, and I don’t have any logical arguments to back it up, I just despise the guy (having played for the Jets and Fins doesn’t hurt, though).
Something about the way he looks makes me want to hit him—I referred elsewhere to AJ Burnett the other day as having “the most punchable face this side of Chad Pennington”. I think I’d rather have Jauron back than have to endure a season rooting for Pennington.
by Future Considerations on Nov 5, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it’s irrational, it needs to go away. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, I probably would have said the same things about TO a year ago (minus the part about it being irrational), but I still rooted for the guy wholeheartedly once he put on the Bills uniform. I just dread the idea of having to talk myself into rooting for the guy.
Besides, I’d miss trying to injure him in Madden ’11 on every play.
by Future Considerations on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, using “the guy” to refer to two different people isn’t confusing at all…to clarify, I despised TO but root for him wholeheartedly as a Bill. I presume I would do the same for Pennington (and at least he seems like a decent guy and a good teammate).
by Future Considerations on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we're punching former Marlins
My top choice is easily Josh Beckett
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I have really mixed feelings about Jake Locker
first off, I lived in Seattle for three years up until this spring, and even though I don’t really follow college FB that closely if you live a mile away from UW you pay attention. Also, I have a friend who is a trainer for the team so I’ve heard some “insidery” snippets of info and stories about him. I won’t go into too much detail about that though because it doesn’t feel right to pass on too much hearsay.
So, the good. Jake Locker is a tremendous, tremendous athlete. That’s evident when you watch him play and he’s also a threat to run the ball. He can make things happen. He’s also a good baseball player – has been drafted by the Angels and I remember seeing news clip of him playing summer ball in some type of collegiate league two years ago. He can hit, pitch and field. His coaches and teammates love him and he’s a very good leader. He’s also been pretty much the only bright spot on a bad team.
The bad. Yeah, sometimes he tries too hard to carry the team and will take off and run the ball a bit too much. He’ll take some hits. I was having a hard time figuring out if its his decision making thats not up to par or if he really doesn’t have anybody to throw to. Here’s the scary story though – when the team’s season was circling the drain last year he did not deal with it well. He lost a lot of motivation and started acting in a self-destructive manner that was detrimental to himself and the team. Certainly nothing to the level of the Jerramy Stevens years at UW and it was kept out of the public eye, but it showed a level of immaturity and inablility to deal with failure. Obviously he’s come out of it and the new coaching staff and system have helped him a lot.
Another year working with Sarkisian would benefit him greatly as he is not ready to start in the nfl, but if he does enter the draft at least a year of working behind another QB might be enough. But yeah, he needs to go to a team that already has a starter and an O-line to work with or else he’ll be scrambling for his life.
Bottom line, I think he could work here even if he just sits behind Trent for a year. If we draft him (or any other rookie QB really) reworking the O-line has to be the other priority. Hopefully he’s maturing and learned from his mistakes because if he does end up in Buffalo he’s going to have to be ready to deal with failure again ;)
by k8 on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we were to sign Pennington, I would only do it if we then draft a QB with our first pick in the draft, that hopefully being Sam Bradford, who I like a lot. Jason Campbell certainly has the physical tools and toughness to be a very good QB in this league, and it has hurt him a great deal that the Redskins have switched offensive systems almost from the minute he was drafted. However, he still lacks a lot, and I would by no means put all my money in his basket, if I were the Bills. He’s simply too much of a question mark.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 5, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If the Bills signed Pennington it would very likely be as a bridge to a new QB that they drafted. I don’t think there would be any illusion that he’s a long term, permanent answer at QB.
by Pistol on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think, as a stop-gap player, Jeff Garcia could be another possibility, depending on who the new coach/OC/new offense will look next year.
by Pistol on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pennington
If he does in fact hit the FA market and the Bills don’t sign him, I will be very pissed.
1) I am NOT saying that Chad would be the QB of the future for this team and that the Bills would be set at QB for the next 10 years if they sign him. I would absolutely want a young QB to go along with him, whether that young QB is Edwards, Quinn, a draft pick or Brian Galliford, I don’t care.
2) His arm strength and durability are a concern, but lets be honest, he could still throw the ball 20 yards down the field and that would be a welcome sight for us fans. As far as injuries, that is where the young guy comes in.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 5, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
My list
Not that my list has any more bearing or expertise (if anything, it has less!), but here’s what I would want, in order:
1. Clausen
2. Campbell
3. Pennington
4. Locker
5. T.Jackson
6. I would like the McNabb/Kolb loser here.
Now I’m a Michigan fan so it’s tough for me to put so much stock in Clausen, but I’ve watched a ton of ND this year (they have their own station after all) and it’s been awesome to see how he has grown. If we did take him high, I’d like us to bring in a vet to start ahead of him for a year or even two (though I don’t want to wait that long), or maybe let Trent be a seat warmer for the Clausen regime in 2010.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 5, 2009 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Most Realistic Option
Does anyone else think that Pennington’s weak arm is not going to translate well in Buffalo? I know he’s a heady veteran and all that, but last year I felt the Dolphins were getting it done in spite of him rather than because of him (and they are pretty good again this year with Henne). He’s a mediocre QB with a below-average arm, and we already have one of those, only we have a younger, cheaper version that still has some potential to improve. I actually want to see Trent be the QB again next year (and is Campbell that much better than Trent???), if only because (1) the o-line will have had some time to develop and (theoretically) should play better, so we can see if Trent really does have any value in his contract year, and (2) it will allow us to keep this next guy on the bench for a year while he learns the pro game…
Ryan Mallett! Ok, so Locker, Clausen and Bradford will all be picked ahead of him, since he’s raw and hasn’t proven anything. Yes, I would love to have any one of those guys, but the fact is the Bills still aren’t bad enough to be drafting top 10 this year, and there are a ton of bad teams that need a QB, so the big 3 will be off the board by the time we pick unless we trade up. I think it makes the most sense to stay put and pick Mallett (who would probably still be on the board) and let him sit for a year while we see what we have in Trent, and after next year we can either let Trent sign elsewhere (far more likely of the two options) or trade Mallett if Trent starts killing it all of a sudden (Mallett should fetch a pretty high price too considering there is talk of him being the #1 guy in 2011).
We need a franchise QB, and we have the luxury of letting the most raw but arguably the most talented college QB sit on the bench for a year and learn while Trent gives us (or another team) one final audition as a starting-caliber QB.
BTW – I’m an Ole Miss fan, and let me tell you, Snead has been putrid this year. Yes, he was great last year, but he’s completely lost it, and I don’t know if he ever puts it together in the pros. Much rather have Mallett at this point (although hopefully Jevan figures it out again next year as a senior).
by Donte's Inferno on Nov 5, 2009 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He’s a mediocre QB with a below-average arm, and we already have one of those, only we have a younger, cheaper version that still has some potential to improve.
The guy has played in New York where the winds are just as bad as they are in Buffalo, he knows how to play in the wind and bad weather. Yes his arm is weaker after the surgeries, but he is smart and knows what he can and can’t do. Also at this point Pennington is well ahead of Edwards as a QB. Yes Edwards can get better, and Pennington will only get worse, but the point is a stop gap, halt the bleeding QB, not a long term answer. Pennington is a smart heady vet that the young guys can learn from.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 5, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think we agree on the most important points, which is that a stopgap is the most likely scenario next year, and that we need to bring in a talented young QB. what do you think of mallett?
by Donte's Inferno on Nov 5, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haven’t watched him much.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 5, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremiah Masoli (JR)
Oregon Ducks
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2008 136 239 1744 56.9 7.30 76 13 5 15 131.96
2009 97 160 1127 60.6 7.04 58 6 2 7 129.67
Proj 146 240 1691 60.6 7.04 58 9 3 11 129.67
by LABillsFan on Nov 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
Sorry for the unreadable table. Here’s a link.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=381755
by LABillsFan on Nov 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremiah Masoli (JR)
He would be a fun QB to have, but he is not going to dominate the NFL. He can make great throws, but his running is winning games here at Oregon. If he is a late pick, I think he makes an awesome back-up.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by thurman on Nov 5, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good List, However I am not sure I trust anyone important at OBD
to make that critical decision for the future. As fans, we can formulate any of our opinions we want and hype our wish lists to each other, but I am not sure if we can really trust John Guy, Tom Modrak, Dick Jauron, Russ Brandon, Alex Van Pelt, Eric Studesville,(anyone else that I am missing?) to make that extremely critical decision. Which direction we go on this decision could really influence the next 10 years of this organization and Bills fans hopes and dreams.
I propose we hire an “Expert” to come in and consult exclusively on this decision and this decision alone. It is some one that needs to be hired this week so he will have enough time to properly evaluate the current situation and if Edwards can be really considered “the guy” or we need someone else (either short or long term).
I propose this expert to be our beloved Jim “Machine Gun” Kelly. What bigger fan out there right now is there than Jimbo himself and what it takes to be a winning QB in Buffalo, NY. He might not be the best with interpreting the mechanics, but I can tell you he’d be the best evaluator of “heart” and the “it factor” that it takes to be “the guy” in this town.
If Ralph or this organization can do anything right going forward… it would be to hire Kelly TODAY!!!
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kelly has said multiple times post-retirement – and in a vehement, matter-of-fact fashion, I might add – that he DOES NOT wish to coach at any level.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say "Coach"... I said "Consultant"
I bet Ralph could sway him to help with that kind of important decision.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't tell me that Kelly wouldn't be interested particularly if he is considering owning the team someday...
http://www.twobillsdrive.com/buffalo-bills/scott-pitoniak/jim-kelly-sees-question-mark-at-qb/
IMO, Kelly knows what is going on like like every other fan in Buffalo does. But he is the only one (outside of anyone else that has played the position or played QB in Buffalo including AVP) that has played at a very high level here for a long time and can influence the “it factor” and “heart” of a QB.
I certainly don’t trust John Guy or Tom Modrak to do that at all…
by dabillsr1 on Nov 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be really shocked if Jimbo doesn’t already put in his 2 cents. I’d bet he’s more aware of what’s going on behind closed doors than he’d admit.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 5, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In Brian's interview with that Sal guy the other day
Sal said he heard Jimbo is already a consultant. Take that for what it’s worth.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha – well, he does write a weekly article for BuffaloBills.com…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's good to hear... somehow I hope his connection isn't only to
practice his journalism skills.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 6, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Sam Bradford #4 behind Pennington?
by dav630 on Nov 5, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I flip-flopped them at the last second. That’s why. Only because I have a bit more pause when considering Bradford as a day one starter than I do Locker or Clausen.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha. i know its a tentative list for discussion, just wondered if you had issues with bradford.
by dav630 on Nov 5, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's just a hunch
but I don’t think the Bills “brain trust” has any intention of replacing Trent Edwards in the next year or two, unless another concussion happens. If you think they are going to draft a good QB in the first round, you probably will be disappointed.
by ccthemovieman on Nov 5, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well the Bills “brain trust” probably won’t be here to make that decision – so it’s probably a moot point……
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, thank you. I think there’s a strong chance that, in the unlikely event that Jauron and the current regime are here in 2010, they still seriously look at quarterbacks. But who really believes they’ll be here?
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve not yet convinced myself that the FO will do the right thing in ANY situation at this point. So me!
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Campbell is a better option than Pennington in my eyes...
I don’t trust a thrice repaired rotator cuff on what is already a noodle-armed choir boy such as Chad. Dan Snyder has stifled Campbell’s development with his revolving door policy with coordinators and coaching staff. Despite all this Campbell’s still managed to put up pretty respectable numbers. Chad has too many physical limitations on what you can do in the offense from a downfield standpoint.
I think if we signed Campbell, held onto Trent, and drafted a developmental guy as the 3rd QB we would have a legitimate QB competition. Edwards has a similar storyline to Campbell in terms of lack of offensive continuity. Campbell has however endured more of that than Edwards and he still has played better than Trent.
by live6453 on Nov 5, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great arm strength doesn’t equal good QB. If that was the case Jeff George would be in the hall of fame, not unemployed. Pennington is smart enough to know what his limitations are and how to work around them.
I agree that Campbell has had his development stifled, but that doesn’t mean he is good to begin with. Chad is a game manager and a team leader.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 5, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brady Quinn is a terrible idea...
He just looks like a Trent Edwards clone with lesser physical gifts. He’s Cincy’s own Captain Checkdown and we’d have to give up a bunch to get him anyway.
by live6453 on Nov 5, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He’s actually Cleveland’s version of Captain Checkdown – Cincy has a pretty solid quarterback – and yeah, I wouldn’t touch Quinn with a ten-foot pole, either.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s cleveland’s captain checkdown for two reasons:
a. he has no receivers downfield to throw to
mangini and co. make him check down.Tired of people that say Brady Quinn can’t throw downfield, because that is patently false. He’s definitely a guy who needs a new look on a new teams.
by quantumuprising on Nov 5, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Brady. I thought he looked solid last year, when he was given a chance. I really think it is Mangenious who is the problem. The Genius decided that Brady is not the guy from the beginning (thinking outside the box) and really limited Brady’s play — when, by the end of last year, everyone knew that it was Brady’s job. The Genius wants to show who’s boss. When you get rid of your top TE and top WR (actually, your top 2 players), and focus on a principally running game with an old, slow injured smashmouth runner, you are asking your QB to be a checkdown passer. I am certain that Tom Brady couldn’t do much with Cleveland’s offense. Give a 4th or 5th rounder after the season and test out Brady with his limited contract — I think that would make sense.
By the way, one problem with QBs is that, for Buffalo, we need a QB who wants to play in Buffalo (small, non-media, quiet social, cold, outdoors, poor stats, non-winner). I think Brady fits that (despite his quirky personality). Several mentioned QBs do not fit that — I love Clausen, but I know from his California days (and apparent partying at ND) that he does not fit with Buffalo.
by labill on Nov 5, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jevan Snead...
I go to school in the SEC. I’ve watched Snead play 6 or so games so far this year, 2 in person. He has so little idea of what he’s doing out there it’s scary.
I know he’s a bigtime talent, but as you said, this is for next year, and there’s no chance he can get it done in the NFL the year after getting eaten alive in the SEC.
Jonathan Stupar won the Heisman…while playing in the NFL!
by JPH on Nov 5, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In the potential FA or trade market
I like Kolb. I think there’s a chance that Philly keeps McNabb and Vick and unload Kolb. Do you think that they’d trade him for a 2010 3rd and a conditional 2011 pick? (1st or 2nd) based on performance? He’s looked extremely good every chance he’s gotten. He reminds me of Schaub, when Schaub was traded to Houston.
If not, another guy I like is Campbell. This guy can play, he’s got a big arm and can make all the throws. He has to be in the right system though, not a quick pass west coast style – he’s more suited for the power run / play-action type attack.
Or if Trent really lights it up in the final 8 games then we should keep him next year because he’s cheap and let him be our game manager while the rookie we get in Rd1 gets his feet wet.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 5, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the sad truth of this list for me
is that outside of guys I don’t think we have a realistic chance of getting – Clausen or Locker – I don’t think I like any of those options more than letting Trent get one more year. If we are going to bring in Jason Campbell, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Chad Pennington, Kerry Collins, Marc Bulger or Tarvaris Jackson I would rather just let Trent Edwards get one more year to figure it out – I dont’ think any of these guys are better then Trent Edwards and many of them are worse. The rest of those rookies I’d rather have sit a year and that means giving Trent one more chance anyway.
This list makes you realize that there are worse options out there then “Captain Checkdown” and I bet you that Bulger, Jackson, Quinn, Pennington, Collins or whoever would be checking down just as much with this sorry excuse for an o-line and running game.
The option I like – which was mentioned by Dav above – is bringing in Chris Simms and letting him and Trent battle in training camp.
Finally – I want to know why Jeff Garcia isn’t on this list. He should have already been wearing red white and blue as soon as Trent went down.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 5, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Garcia
He’s too old and he’s only a good fit in a West-Coast offense where he could acclimate quickly.
His success in Philly, Tampa, SF was largely due to the familiarity with that system. We don’t run that Walsh-Holmgren-Mariucci-etc. type offense …
by sabre74kkn on Nov 5, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Finally – I want to know why Jeff Garcia isn’t on this list. He should have already been wearing red white and blue as soon as Trent went down.
I’ve answered this question so many times that it now rushes out of me in a completely instinctual, rage-filled answer:
jeffgarciawillbefreaking40nextfebruaryohrightandtheresthatlittleissueinwhichterrellowenspubliclyquestionedhissexuality
What happened? I blacked out.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
40, but look at Favruh, haha.
Plus, TO in ’10, seriously? I doubt it…
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The T.O. thing had more to do with the thought process that Garcia should have been a Bill starting in Week 7…
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
still doesnt explain
why he isnt a good option for next year – as per your article. As Sluss pointed out – Favre is over 40 and TO wont be here next year. I’d rather have him then Chad Pennington I think – note, I said I think.
Either way, you dont think hes a top 10 candidate Brian?
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 5, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d table the “Favre is 40” argument, because that guy is one of a kind. How about – Vinny Testaverde was 40?
We still don’t know for sure T.O. won’t be here next season, either. The chances are slim, but they exist.
And no – Garcia isn’t anywhere close to being Top 10. I doubt he’d be Top 25.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 5, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Garcia isn't a good option for next year....
Why isn’t he a good option for ANYONE this year?!?!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, come on guys….Garcia got cut from the Raiders. What does that tell you? Yes you could say the Raiders are crazy and it doesn’t prove anything, but then if Garcia was so great, why is he still unemployed?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 5, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
I find it hysterical you guys are all so quick to bury Garcia – who has been a winner very recently – because of his age but somehow Kerry Collins gets into the article as a “wily veteran”. Compare their last 8 games as pros and I bet you see mor eyou like from Garcia then Collins.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia is almost three full years older than Collins. Garcia has always been somewhat dependent on his athletic abilities which have got to be failing him by now. Collins is just a big arm and that’s pretty much what he’s been his entire career. I wouldn’t want either one of them, but Collins seems much more likely to find a gig next year than Garcia.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 6, 2009 3:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it funny that you are defending a soon to be 40 year old
that nobody wants.
Why is he still sitting out there available?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Collins is also soon to be 40
I just cant imagine that hes suddenly lost it all. Just because hes available doesnt me hes bad. It means teams either have their Qbs or are developing young ones. Who is in win now mode that a QB would make a difference for? Maybe the Panthers? Hes not needed.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So why isn't he even a backup anywhere?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 7, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess his contract demands are too high for a backup
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 7, 2009 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Simms?
Why does he keep getting brought up?
He’s bounced around the league the past few years, been available midseason and is another guy that nobody has really wanted. Why in the world would we want to bring that guy in to fight for a starting job? The only job I’d let him compete for is the backup job.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
I particularly think that the Bills should bring in a veteran QB to start in ’10 while drafting a stud for the future. My thoughts/ranks are below on the potentially available vets and rooks.
Veterans:
1. Simms – As dav630 mentioned above, why not bring in Simms, he looked great b/f getting hurt in preseason. He has to be better than Edwards, right?
2. Kolb – Looked good filling in for McNabb, young but has experience
3. McNabb – lots of upside, but will choke in the playoffs/SB
4. Garcia – still has upside, despite being out ‘09 season
5. K Collins – old, but better option than Pennington/Campbell/Quinn IMO
6. Pennington – will play his heart out, but most likely not be enough
7. Campbell – mentally is unstable, no thanks
8. Quinn – Dude is seriously Trent Edwards with bigger muscles and a different color uniform, he had Braylon and still couldn’t throw the deep ball…
9. Leinart – not dedicated, no longer a winner
Rookies:
1. Bradford – This guy should be playing for the Lions as the ‘09 #1 overall pick. Yes, he would need time to develop, but wouldn’t we spend the time, instead of trying to plug the hole every year since the mid-90’s???
2. Locker – Amazing athlete, good pick that probably won’t fall to B-lo. Plus he might go play for the Angels
3. Claussen – Overrated, see Brady Quinn.
4. Mallet – Too young
5. Snead – Has looked awful this year, we don’t need more “awful” in B-lo
6. Remaining QB’s – do we really want to draft another 2nd round or later QB?
If we are going to draft a Bradford/Locker, Simms or Kolb might not be the most experienced teacher for them, so maybe go with a McNabb/Garcia or Collins. If we’re drafting a later rounder (please don’t for the love…) maybe draft a guy that can play some years like Simms or Kolb.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just saying...
…“Clausen- overrated” isn’t saying much to me.
Why do you feel he’s overrated? What about him don’t you like? I’m not saying it’s not legitimate to have some doubts about him, but to just write him off because you think he’s Brady Quinn 2.0 seems ridiculous to me.
He hasn’t put up the production that Quinn did at ND, but he’s had much higher expectations and a worse overall team. He’s played GREAT in late-game high-pressure situations, against fairly quality opponents. I really like his accuracy on the deep ball, which may have something to do with the fact that he has two great receivers. His throwing motion is a tad weird, as Brian points out, but he’s accurate with the football so I don’t think it’s an issue.
If Clausen were the next face of the Bills, I wouldn’t be mad at that.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 5, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, just saying overrated was a tad vague. I just think he is overhyped b/c he plays for ND, just like Quinn was. The fact of the matter is, I don’t think he would be a very good NFL QB like Bradford or Locker, and if he played for another team, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation right now.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
by Sluss88 on Nov 5, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the description, which I certainly understand, yet I still disagree.
Does the ND machine help drive the hype around Clausen? Yeah, for sure. But he wasn’t the #1 QB prospect in his class out of high school for no reason, and you can’t blame that ranking on hype.
I do understand the ND stigma, but looking past that, I think Clausen’s skills coming out of high school and what he has shown at a high-expectations national division-1 program warrant him being a top-rated prospect.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 5, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Edwards was top 5-10 in most high school QB rankings too. They rank for potential in those. Lots of things can happen in college that affect that potential positively or negatively. I think you’ve got to look at consistency, level of competition, and athletic ability in ranking QBs coming from college.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that’s certainly a good (and damning) point about Trent.
But don’t you think, out of all those attributes you described, Clausen fits the bill pretty well?
I know I do.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve got to be honest. I don’t follow college football even a little. I mostly take the word of people who follow CFB to know which players have the goods. So, I can’t really comment on how Clausen is looking. My only point was that high school rankings can be misleading. Even if most Top-10 ranked high school prospects usually make solid NFL prospects, that doesn’t mean all of them do.
Also, as I understand it, the level of competition for ND hasn’t been amazing this year. That may be a small factor, like with Roethlisberger, but it might be a giant factor, like with Losman.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you said you don't really follow college ball...
..but here’s a look at ND’s schedule for this year.
Nevada – W – 35-0
at Michigan – L – 38-34
Michigan State – W – 33-30
at Purdue – W – 24-21
Washington – W 37-30
- USC – L 34-27
Boston College – W 20-16
Washington State – W – 40-14
Navy
at #13 Pittsburgh
Connecticut
at Stanford
As you can see, even though they mix between Big 10, Big East, and Pac 10, Notre Dame has basically played a BCS conference schedule. Sure, Navy and Nevada aren’t BCS teams, but all teams schedule 2 or even 3 cupcakes every year, so you can’t get on them for that.
They played two highly ranked teams, as well as some lower BCS teams (Washington State) and some middling teams (Purdue, BC).
All this, to me at least, means that they are playing a BCS schedule and Clausen is a late Michigan TD and a defensive breakdown against USC away from being 8-0.
I don’t mean this to be in direct response to you personally, because you said that’s just what you’ve heard. I’m just saying it to all the ND haters that say Clausen hasn’t played against anybody.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 6, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so yeah...
formatting’s not my strong suit.
USC was #6 when they played, and for some reason it put a number in there haha.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 6, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. It takes me a time or 2 to get the “special” comments straightened out with bullets, blockquoting, and the like. The preview button helps me a lot when I do that.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Simms looked "great"???
In what way?
In the one season where he got extended starting action (2005), he put up the following Hall of Fame numbers:
11 Games
2,035 yards (185 ypg)
61% completion rate
10 TD’s, 7 INT’s
Sacked 29 times
6.5 yards per attempt
81.4 rating
His last 5 starts of that regular season, he threw for 844 yards (169 ypg), was 94 for 149, and averaged 5.66 yards per attempt. That’s very Fitzpatrickian.
In all honesty, how in the world is any of that great, or even very good?? There’s a reason this guy has bounced around since and gotten very little interest as a free agent.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disclaimer: I’m defending my suggestion..
Sluss88 was saying that Simms looked great this past preseason for the Broncos before he got injured. He was going to beat out Orton for that job.
I don’t think he’s the second coming or anything, K, just that I think he’s shown some flashes, he’s obviously a tough guy. Gruden, who only likes vets, trusted him…
And if you are going to talk about Pennington (#3?), Tavaris Jackson, and Brady Quinn, as well as guys who haven’t proved a thing in the NFL (honestly what has Locker done to be christened #1?) …..
why can’t we include a conversation about Chris Simms, who isn’t an unrealistic possibility.
by dav630 on Nov 5, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, guys. Razorbacks fan here. Ryan Mallett is not ready to play in the NFL. He may be in a year or two, but it would be a disaster for him to declare in the spring. I watched the guy play at Texarkana High School and I’ve watched him in college. He’s good, he’s good, but he’s definitely a college level QB. Don’t take my word for it, watch the Hogs games. Mallett isn’t a mad bomber, but he definitely enjoys going downfield, and his deep ball accuracy style reminds me of Drew Bledsoe. However, his short patterns have a distinct unpolished, Losman-esque look at the moment. Bears watching, but unless he makes some improvements there, please don’t think this guy is the next Peyton Manning just because he’s 6’7".
I’m interested to see how Bobby Petrino and his staff can work with Mallett’s footwork. That might be the X factor.
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 5, 2009 1:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
claussen is better than locker. i think only claussen, bradford, and locker could push trent edwards for the starting spot.
by LIBi on Nov 5, 2009 3:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see Clausen with the Bills.
How about Leinart and Edwards battling out for the starting job next year??
by rick p on Nov 5, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Tony Pike???
Personally, I would prefer Pike over everyone else on this list. Mark my words… he’s not going to be a good pro, he’s going to be a GREAT pro. His talent is obvious and he has in spades what every QB Buffalo has had since the JK days has lacked… VISION.
in a salary cap era, no single unit (offense or defense) should be consistently sub-average for such a long stretch.
by kgun201 on Nov 5, 2009 5:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My list:
Keep Trent,
sign a vet for competition…
1 Kolb
2 Pennington
3 Campbell
Wait for Mallett to develop or look at other options next year. Between Locker and Bradford, I see too much cost and too many question marks. The only QB of the big 3 I would feel is a solid move would be Clausen, and I am on the fence with that thought.
BTW…the line could be decent next year if Bell makes a step and some quality depth is added.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by thurman on Nov 5, 2009 6:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IMO
If you are trading for Kolb, then he is probably your long term starter. He’s only 25, so the Eagles are unlikely to trade him unless they get a 1st or 2nd round pick. If a team is trading that much for him, then they are more than likely making him their franchise guy right away.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 5, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He still has to win the job from Trent, I believe, but yeah…if he is going to cost a 1st round pick, he wins the job right there, even if there are some cosmetic QB competition. A second rounder for Kolb? I’m interested.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by thurman on Nov 5, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Trent sticks around next year, and another vet comes in, then I would at least like to draft a quarterback in the later rounds. Maybe LeFevour, Hiller, or any of the top prospects who drop way down.
by tpsabres on Nov 5, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That might waste a pick for another “could be.” But, yeah, a pick there makes a great learning pocket for the next big thing.
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by thurman on Nov 6, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vick & his mentor Dungy
I have a feeling that Vick will be finding a new home next year. His contract in Philly only has an option for a second year and he will be too expensive of a Wildcat QB (5.2 million next year) to keep around. Watching Dungy on TV you can see that he still has the fire to coach. I have a feeling that there is a posibility that Dungy would un-retire to coach if he could have Vick as his QB. All of the teams mentioned looking for QBs & coachs at the end of this year, would give Vick a chance to get Dungy to coach.
by teq on Nov 5, 2009 8:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mallett, Bradford and Campbell
For whatever it is worth (not much) my vote would be to take Ryan Mallett if he comes out, or Bradford if he falls to us. Obviously I would keep Trent as the starter next year while the new QB starts adjusting to the NFL. I can also see taking a chance on Jason Campbell if neither of those rookies are available. No on else on the list really intrigues me (I’m assuming that Locker and Clauson and probably Bradford as well will go before we pick).
Mallett still has a lot of learning to do, but once he gets there he is going to be dynamite.
by Macktruck on Nov 5, 2009 10:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we're going with a vet...
…I’d choose Campbell at the top of the list in a heartbeat.
They were making the point on MNF that even at Auburn he hasn’t worked under the same coordinator in consecutive years for like seven in a row or something ridiculous. (I know, as Brian pointed out, we don’t have great continuity in coordinator’s either!)
I’ve really liked what I’ve seen from him physically when I’ve seen the ‘Skins and he seems like the type that’s not afraid to go out and make plays.
Actually, just while typing this, in my mind it’s becoming a two horse race between Clausen and Campbell, depending on which route we take as an organization. The benefit to picking up Campbell would be that we could take an O-lineman or LB with our first pick and shore up the rest of the team.
by nickfeely8 on Nov 6, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i feely that
Sweet home Orchard Park.
jb
by thurman on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My dream option is the Bills snagging a big FA (Campbell, Pennington, McNabb… although I doubt he’s out of Philly etc.) to lead the team next year and getting Mallett or LeFevour in the draft and letting them sit a year to learn the ropes and be ready to be the guy in 2011. I’m perfectly willing to take a season off from caring if it’s at least rebuilding a REAL QB for us.
By the way, what’s with everyone drooling and slapping the praise on Sam “Twisted Shoulders” Bradford and then dumping all over LeFevour only because he plays in a spread offense… which Bradford also does if I recall correctly?!
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
My favorite options are Pennington and Kolb simply because the Bills will be picking in the back half of the top 10 and likely won’t be able to select one of the top two QBs. Kolb (especially if Sean McDermott finds his way to OBD) would be an intriguing option. McNabb would be as well. Pennington on a one or two year deal doesn’t bother me as long as the Bills still draft a guy to take over after Pennington leaves ala Chad Henne.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, and Tarvaris Jackson are only UFAs if the salary cap is reinstated. Without it all three are RFAs. That likely means little for Jackson who won’t be kept around but Campbell at 1M per year may not make it to UFA status. Orton certainly won’t.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 6, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Schaub to Kolb
Im not sure how much experience Schaub had before Atlanta traded him to Houston, it had to be some because they gave up a lot to get him. One of the three QB’s has to be out in Philly right? It could be Vick because he is due something like 5.6 million next season if the team takes the option. But if they make Kolb available I think the Bills should jump on him, and maybe take a late round QB in the draft to groom for a few years.
by louiethegent on Nov 6, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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