Playoffs or not, Bills have much to learn post-bye
The Buffalo Bills are 3-5, and as they enjoy their last weekend off until their 2009 season comes to a close - whenever that may be - it's time for us fans to stop reflecting on what they've done through the first half of the season and to start discussing what we might learn over the next eight weeks.
Clearly, the big questions in Buffalo remain the coaching situation - which is probably tied directly to the outcome of the season - and the quarterback position, which we've discussed very thoroughly over the last couple of days. But from a player personnel standpoint, there is still plenty of progress to be made for several young players. What follows is a breakdown of Bills players with the most to gain, most to lose, and those waiting for some developments to unfold.
Three Bills with the most to gain developmentally
Demetrius Bell. Buffalo's starting left tackle has had his share of struggles early in his career, particularly with consistency (which isn't a surprise) and mistakes (which are incredibly irritating). He's cleaned up his act in the latter department in recent weeks, and it's therefore not impossible to think he can work out some consistency issues over the next eight games, too. No one denies that Bell has solid talent. If he proves he can play left tackle in this league, that's one less major issue the Bills will need to address in the off-season.
Aaron Maybin. I've preached patience in regards to Maybin, and even though that argument is nearly universally accepted, fans still don't like the pick because Maybin's rookie contributions have been minimal. Depending on how the rest of the season goes, however, there's a strong chance Maybin's playing time could increase as the season progresses, particularly as he's already starting to see a few more snaps per game. Again - this is a player whose talent is undeniable. If he starts producing in the second half of the season, the minds of a large number of fans will be put at ease.
Jairus Byrd. Yes, he's been Buffalo's MVP through the first half of the season, thanks to his league-leading seven interceptions. He's a leading candidate for Defensive Rookie of the Year. But he's not a complete, two-dimensional safety yet. If his groin injury doesn't hamper him over the next two months, Byrd has a chance to gain a ton of starting experience and develop his tackling skills. The more he plays, the closer he comes to becoming an all-around playmaker, and if that happens, he could be considered one of the elite defensive backs in the NFL.
Three Bills with the most to gain if they're on tape for a new coaching staff
Trent Edwards. That one's pretty obvious. He's a young player that has some talent, and he's shown (very occasional) flashes of competence at the game's most important position. If a new coaching staff is in Buffalo in 2010, that staff's most important decision will be centered around what to do at quarterback. A strong finish to this season could help Edwards survive a regime change. Of course, it could also help save his current coach's job, as well.
Paul Posluszny. The completely unbiased view of Posluszny outside of Buffalo right now is as follows: perfect teammate, tremendous competitor with leadership skills and smarts, limited playmaker and an injury risk. He might be playing out of position as well, and is this kid's ceiling as high as originally thought? Like Edwards, Poz isn't going to be leaving Buffalo any time soon, but if he wants to remain this team's starting middle linebacker through next off-season, he needs to close this season well.
Donte Whitner. He's missed at least one game in each of his four pro seasons, including four of the Bills' first eight games this season. Prior to his departure from the lineup, Whitner was playing at the highest level of his career - but as he's missed time, Byrd has established himself as one of the elite young defensive backs in the NFL. Whitner has been a team captain, but he's not anymore. His production remains an issue, even if his versatility remains a tremendous asset to this team. Again - he won't be going anywhere any time soon, but he's got a lot to prove if he's to remain a key part of Buffalo's defense through a regime change.
Three Bills playing out the string
Roscoe Parrish. He's been relegated to third quarterback duties, and there's a chance he could be released when the team activates James Hardy from the PUP list. One of the elite punt returners in NFL history, Parrish has worn out his welcome in Buffalo thanks to a mistake-prone 2009 season and his inability to learn the Bills' offense.
Chris Ellis. A third-round pick in 2008, Ellis had a quiet rookie season and, thanks to the presence of three veterans and Maybin, hasn't had much opportunity this year, either - he's been active just once. He barely hung on to a roster spot as it was, and did so only after a strong pre-season. Unless a veteran or two leaves and the coaching staff remains intact, Ellis is unlikely to get his career started in Buffalo.
John McCargo. He's been hurt, ineffective, traded, and returned to the Bills over the past couple of seasons. He is the only Bills defensive tackle that doesn't have a contract that expires in the 2013 season - and the Bills could use additional beef at that position. Add it all up, and McCargo is probably done in Buffalo after this season ends.
Three Bills pondering future roles with the club
Brad Butler. He started the season off relatively well at right tackle, but now he's on IR, and Buffalo's offensive line is a mess. A new regime would almost certainly address the O-Line, and particularly each tackle position, but Butler also has a contract that expires in 2013. He'll be in Buffalo for a while - the question is simply where he'll be playing, and whether or not he'll be starting.
Eric Wood. Again, Wood's not going anywhere soon - the only Bills locked up as far into the future as Wood is are WR Lee Evans, DE Aaron Schobel and Maybin. But most NFL personnel executives saw Wood as a pure center prospect entering the 2009 NFL Draft. Obviously, he's playing guard in Buffalo. I, for one, would support the move, but Wood needs to put good tape together so a new regime - or even the current regime - wises up and puts him at center.
Leodis McKelvin. He had a so-so rookie campaign, and to say the start of his 2009 season was disastrous would be a monumental understatement. Now he, too, is on IR, and Buffalo's secondary is getting along swimmingly without him. CB Drayton Florence has filled in admirably in his stead; his play has been so good, in fact, that if it continues, McKelvin may not regain his starting role in 2010.
Three Bills free agents waiting on tenterhooks
Terrell Owens. T.O. is in a tricky position. His numbers are so far down that it seems unlikely that many teams will be interested in him as a UFA in 2010, even if he's been on his best behavior as a Bill. Then again, he's unlikely to stay in Buffalo beyond this season if Dick Jauron is let go. Owens has eight more games in Buffalo, and then it's anyone's guess what happens from there.
Ryan Denney. People tend to grossly underestimate just how valuable Denney is to this team. He gives the Bills quality reps as a rotational defensive lineman - at both tackle and end, by the way - and he's been one of Bobby April's key special teams players throughout his career. He's scheduled for free agency after the season, however, and the Bills have serious investments in Schobel, Maybin and even DE Chris Kelsay. Particularly if Jauron leaves, but even if he doesn't, he could be looking for a new home.
Keith Ellison. He's currently fourth in the NFL with 68 tackles, and he's clearly having his best season as a pro. He's been an incredibly valuable commodity to Perry Fewell, as he has played all three linebacker spots - strong, middle, weak - as the Bills have dealt with ridiculous injuries and shake-ups at the position. But he also has his limitations, and while the Bills have been able to scheme around them, a new regime might not view Ellison in quite the same light. He'll be a UFA as well (though if there's no new CBA, he'll be an RFA), and like many players, Ellison's Bills fate may be tied directly to his play the rest of the season as well as the fate of the coaching staff.
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Comments
I have a feeling TO is going to come back after the season… Regardless of who the new coach was. Unless its Wade Phillips or the Big Tuna (which obviously neither would happen)
As far as what Im most looking forward to seeing the most is Maybin and Lynch… and the O-Line.
Maybin for obvious reasons…
But Lynch because hes yet to put a good game together. I know the line isnt the best… but players should be able to make plays. And he hasnt made a play yet this year. I in now way am saying we’re getting rid of him but I want to see him produce.
LETS GO BUFF-A-LO!!
by bflo on Nov 6, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Some Good points!
> I agree with Poz playing out of position, I think he is more suited for the outside. He doesn’t have the build and is too small to play in the middle.
> Edwards does have talent, but needs to start stretching the field more in the 2nd half of the season. What does he have to lose at this point.
> T.O. is definitely gone. He is not a blue-collar Buffalo guy and it almost looks like he cannot wait to catch the next plane out of town to Miami or Los Angeles. He’s a wine-and-cheese player. And he is a cancer to the team, since he flies down to games by himself, stay’s in his own hotel. This team needs to build for the future and he should not be in it.
> Bills are giving up 171 yards on average to opposing teams in the rushing category. That shows we have serious line problems, of which McCargo has been a bust for the most part. I have met McCargo before, very nice guy from Virginia, but just doesn’t even look that big in person. When he was at NC-State, he had Mario Williams and Tank Tyler and Manny Lawson, who might have helped him look better than he was.
> Ellison has surprised me this year, definitely keep him.
> Bills need to address both lines as I always state, and would love to see them draft the Defensive Tackle from Nebraska.
by BuffaloWhiner on Nov 6, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do you have evidence to support any of these claims?
T.O. is definitely gone. He is not a blue-collar Buffalo guy and it almost looks like he cannot wait to catch the next plane out of town to Miami or Los Angeles. He’s a wine-and-cheese player. And he is a cancer to the team, since he flies down to games by himself, stay’s in his own hotel.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 6, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poz
is too slow to play the outside and too small to play the inside. Hmmm.
by jpheff on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rey Maualuga plays outside in Cincinnati, and he ran 4.8. Poz ran 4.7. He’s not too slow to play outside. He’s not tremendously quick, but until you see him play outside, it’s kind of hard to make that claim considering what little fact we have to go on.
Nor is he too small to play inside. He weighs 240. That puts him in the same weight class (or above) as Jon Beason, Dhani Jones, D’Qwell Jackson, D.J. Williams, Larry Foote, Nick Barnett, Gary Brackett, Justin Durant, Akin Ayodele, E.J. Henderson, Jerod Mayo, Jonathan Vilma, Antonio Pierce, Bart Scott, Kirk Morrison, Will Witherspoon, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, Stephen Cooper, Kevin Burnett, Patrick Willis, Takeo Spikes, Lofa Tatupu, and Barrett Ruud. Yes – that’s 24 starting inside linebackers.
I get that you don’t like the guy, and some of the criticisms are warranted, but good Lord, at least make arguments that are feasible.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!
lol
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 6, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian, I agree with you, except for one thing – Lets not jump to equating 40 times with quickness – straight ahead sprint speed is not the same thing as side to side quickness.
by quantumuprising on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Posluszny:
40 Combine: 4.70
40 Pro Day: 4.58
20 Combine: 2.73
20 Pro Day: 2.61
10 Combine: 1.56
10 Pro Day: 1.53
3-Cone Combine: 6.94
3-Cone Pro Day: DNP
Rey Maualuga:
40 Combine: 4.81
40 Pro Day: 4.58
20 Combine: 2.75
20 Pro Day: 2.65
10 Combine: 1.59
10 Pro Day: 1.57
3-Cone Combine: DNP
3-Cone Pro Day: DNP
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what
he ran similar times, they guy isnt a playmaker and will contiue to get hurt. i like him on the team, but combine numbers mean nothing. he still could be too slow becasue he doesnt react in time.
by pastj12345 on Nov 7, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1) “Will continue to get hurt” – have fun proving that one right now.
2) “Combine numbers mean nothing” – That’s not entirely true, but it jibes with my original point – an argument can’t reasonably be made that Poz isn’t fast/quick enough to play outside, because slower players do it. Poz is fast/quick enough.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 7, 2009 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no arguments necessary
just go to the video.
by jpheff on Nov 6, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So taking a strictly pessimistic view of what was written:
2005 Draft:
2nd round pick Roscoe Parrish could be cut this season.
2006 Draft:
1st round pick (#8 overall) Donte Whitner’s production is an issue and has missed time in each season.
1st round pick John McCargo will not be re-signed after this season.
2007 Draft:
2nd round pick Paul Posluszny is a limited playmaker and injury risk.
3rd round pick Trent Edwards may have talent, but we are not sure.
2008 Draft:
1st round pick (#11 overall) Leodis McKelvin had a disasterous 2009 season and is in danger of not starting next year.
(2nd round pick James Hardy, while not focused on in the above article, has been on IR for most of pro career)
3rd round pick Chris Ellis may not be re-signed after this year.
2009 Draft:
1st round pick (#11 overall) Aaron Maybin may not make an impact this year, but we must be patient.
1st round pick Eric Wood could be making a postion change again in the next year or two?
2nd round pick Jairus Byrd….well, he’s the man. Nothing pessimistic to say about this kid.
We have to draft better than this, right? That’s alot of high picks invested in players that are “solid” but don’t make plays. This isn’t good enough.
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This team has been bad at drafting in the first 2-3 rounds
Getting decent players is fine, but when that’s the best you’re getting, it’s a problem. They’ve also traded away useful 3rd rounders to get McCargo and Poz, which were bad moves at the time, and terrible moves in retrospect now.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. It’s almost always a bad move to trade up, and this front office would rather trade up, or over-pick to get ‘their guy’, then wait and let players fall to them.
And of course, when they were forced to wait this year Shawn Nelson fell in their laps.
by Pistol on Nov 6, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you think stars are common in drafts?
I don’t know what you expect from drafting but most often with the draft – even high picks – you are getting solid players. Finding stars and playmakers is very rare. According to your logic every team would be finding a playmaker and a star every single year. It doesn’t work that way. Great teams are made up of solid players complimented by a few stars. Yes our drafts have been bad, but you can’t be mad that we get “solid” players.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I shouldn't focus on the fact that our high 1st rounders aren't stars
I think I was more upset with the fact that after this season, we may let go a 2005 2nd round pick (Parrish), a 2006 1st round pick (McCargo) and a 2008 3rd round pick (Ellis), all for exactly zero (point zero) compensation.
I think that gets me more upset than the fact that Poz, Whitner, McKelvin, ect aren’t making a huge impact for us.
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
and believe me, your point is very well taken. It highlights something that really is an indictment of how this team is management and that is high picks that are no longer with the team.
I really think it comes down to finding a QB. I think if you have a good QB who puts points on the board everyone looks better and makes more plays, it puts pressure on the other team to make risks and roll the dice when they play a QB who can make a big drive happen whenever he touches the ball. Instead we are constantly losing behind stagnant offensive play and so our defenders are never in a position to make plays, teams are playing conservative. I bet with a great QB guys like Poz and Whitner make more plays.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Three outcomes for a drafted player
Star player
Team contributor
Bust
The failure of the Bills drafting process is that our players haven’t developed into star players who truly make a difference. But we haven’t busted many either (McCargo, Simpson).
Many teams would take our last four drafts and be happy.
A couple star players in the right positions surrounded by the mass of quality contributors that we have, and we’re a different team.
And there lies the crux: the ability to draft star players. Easier said than done.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t it also be that the draft team got things done well enough, but the coaching staff isn’t suited to coach up players’ deficiencies? I think it’s too hard right now to know if the player is a bust or if the system’s a bust.
This is just my opinion:
Mike Williams = bust. JP Losman = not a bust as a player, a bust because of the circumstances.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 6, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great though
Partially explains why players move on from failures to have success with another team.
I tend to think Jauron’s staff does a really good job coaching the team up though, and Losman may have some other circumstances that apply here.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But...
The problem isn’t that they are decent players. The problem is that in that span (and longer) there have been no stars picked when we’re always picking in the top 15. We need to start finding more impactful players and stars, not just decent and role players each April.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
well here is the problem
when a team like us or the Raiders or the Lions draft Marshawn Lynch he is just a really good player as opposed to a star like he would be if the Giants or Jets or Patriots drafted him. Why? Because those teams are drafting late because they have good offensive lines. You win in the trenches. This year the team finally addressed this by drafting Wood and Levitre and trying to correct that and I bet as they develop Marshawn will become a star. He already is a star player, hes just playing without blockers. Much the same our defenders are just good because htey are playing with a fangless offense. Poz on the Pats or Whitner on the Saints are stars. Stars don’t emerge at other positions unless you have a QB, an O-line and a D-line that are forces to be reckoned with. We have none of those – though our d-line is close.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is kind of BS
In that case, how do bad teams get better and develop superstars?
Lynch is what he is, an above average RB. He wouldn’t be a superstar anywhere.
Poz and Whitner, come on. These guys don’t make plays, yet they’d be stars elsewhere? Come on poz.
Stars don’t emerge if you don’t have a QB, OL or good DL?? What? Tell that to Patrick Willis, Steven Jackson, DeMeco Ryans, Maurice Jones-Drew, Nmamdi Asomugha, Calvin Johnson and so on. Stars rise up no matter who plays around them. There’s a reason the good teams have more stars…those stars help them win…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
ill bet you
that if DeMeco Ryans played here we would be saying hes only a good player and not a star.
And to those others players, im not saying its impossible but its also kind of bs that you picked the gold standard at each position. For every guy like Steven Jackson, Patrick Willis, Maurice Jones-Drew, Nnamdi Asomugha and Calvin Johnson there are far more Marvin Harrisons, Corey Websters, Bart Scotts who become star names because they play on teams that have a really good QB or defensive line or offensive line. Derrick Ward? Lance Moore? DeSean Jackson? Priest Holmes? Darren Sharper and Tracy Porter racking up picks because teams are throwing wildly to keep up with Drew Brees? Bradie James on the Cowboys? Remember when Antonio Cromartie was considered the next star DB because of all the ridiculous pressure the Chargers were getting? When that stopped he was exposed as just another guy. Wes Welker playing with Brady or Moss?
You used the most execeptional and rare studs in the league. Steven Jackson is once a decade, Asomugha is probably once every three decades. And you say those guys help their teams win but the Rams, Lions, Raiders and Jags arent winning.
Great QBs, O-lines and D-lines make you win and make your good players playmakers – hence earning them the label stars. Go put Poz on the Ravens and I bet you he is a 125 tackle, 5 sack 2 pick run stuffing machine behind those big guys and next to those pass rushers. Go put Lee Evans on the Texans and you bet Schaub is making him a consistent 1,000 yard 8 TD receiver. You put Dont Whitner on the Saints nad he is getting his picks.
And no according to my logic the bad teams will never get better, they will never get better trying to draft these stars your talking about instead of drafting linemen or striking gold with a QB. The Raiders draft choices are McFadden and Hayward Bey and they failed on Russell. If you build an o-line your RBs, WRs and TEs drafted after the early rounds will look like stars and if you build a d-line your later round LBs and DBs will look like stars too. You build an o-line and you draft Calvin Johnson and Stafford and they both work out? You’ve got a championship contending team. If we had an o-line in place, picks like Marshawn Lynch would be paying huge dividends and he would be considered a star.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and for the record
I’m not saying there are not playmakers and stars at every position. There clearly are. I’m just saying you increase your chances of finding a star for your team when they play on a team that has built its fundamental pillars. We are consistently bad because we havent drafted at those positions (sans QB). I’m sure the Haloti Ngata crowd would agree with me. Thats why I think Jauron really hooked up the next coach with this draft. He drafted three linemen in the first two rounds and found one of those rare superstars like Steven Jackson in Jairus Byrd.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree with hooking up the next coach.
Jauron finally drafted the right way this past year(focusing on the lines) and the next coach will be the one who sees the payoff.
Not trying to defend Jauron tho. He should have been drafting like that the year he came.
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
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by partyboybackformore on Nov 6, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As an SU alumn
I cannot let you list Marvin Harrison as a star only because he played on a team with a good QB, O-line or D-line. The man holds the record for most receptions in a season. 2nd to Jerry Rice for most receptions in a career. This cannot be all Peyton Manning’s doing. (so he shot a guy, big deal)
On behalf of Kurupt and I (and any other SU grads on the board) I demand an apology!
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW I think the topic is extremely interesting as well
I feel like I agree with both ways of thinking (our players aren’t stars because our QB/O-line/D-line isn’t any good vs our players aren’t stars because they aren’t good enough). Not sure how this could ever be concluded upon one way or the other, but there are good points in each side of the argument.
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahah
I will say, I was a HUGE Marvin Harrison fan. But could you imagine him being a star over the last decade a half if he had played on the Bills since the late 90s to now? I think he’d have been like Lee Evans – up and down seasons. I LOVE Marvin – I think hes one of the greats. But again ,our teams have not been built properly, how can any good player be a star here?
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, when I look at your rundown of the Bills’ recent drafts what pops out for me is how much better the last draft was than the previous ones. If you add Levitre (who has been almost as much of a success as Wood, and who will be even better after he puts on more weight in the offseason), 2009 was a pretty good year. What was different last year was that Russ Brandon really started to play a significant role in the team’s decision-making. (Yes, he was the quasi-GM the previous year, but I had the impression he was mainly watching and listening at that point, as a new manager should.) It makes me wonder if he could grow into the role of an effective GM as time goes on. I’m sure Ralph Wilson would much prefer that to bringing in a GM from outside.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I agree, the 2009 draft seems solid so far.
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also agree. 2009 could go down as one of best drafts ever.
by Bill Frank on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
guys, guys
lets not forget that the 2007 draft your all dismissing now was being called the greatest draft ever a year after as well with marshawn, poz, and trent all looking like starters and leaders for years to come. That could all still be true but it seems like our coaching staff makes players regress. I know its a ludicrous thing to say and I guess I dont really mean it in any rational sense but it seems like we draft well and then our players drift backwards. I think a coaching change is very necessary.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2007 was called a great draft, but was it one in reality. Marshawn, Poz and Trent are now in their third year and none of them have truly excelled yet. That may very well be the fault of the team on which they are playing, but it seems to me that the 2007 draft is more of a question mark now than it was then.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not a pessimistic view, it’s a depressing one.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 6, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
draft strategy
should be for the Bills’ brain trust to put together their top guys and that should automatically eliminate them from any further consideration.
by jpheff on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Roscoe Parrish is cut
That would leave Lee Evans as the only remaining Buffalo Bill from BOTH the 2004 and 2005 draft classes.
Wow, just wow.
by StroudFanClub on Nov 6, 2009 9:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
thats amazing...
in a bad, pathetic way…
LETS GO BUFF-A-LO!!
by bflo on Nov 6, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad they won’t even give Ellis a chance. They aren’t going to de-active the top 4 DE’s, barring injury, and don’t seem to care to have 5 active DE’s. I’d like to see the kid at least get a shot….What does this franchise have to lose?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree – it baffles me when you think of this team losing – why wouldn’t you try something new just to see if it gives you an added spark
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Nov 6, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t agree more. Ellis looked very good in the preseason. That of course was the preseason. But he was a fairly high draft pick and you would think the team would want to give him some playing time now that the playoffs are out of reach to find out what they have with him.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t he a bit small for DE? Why not try the kid as a rush backer?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 6, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis is listed at 261, as much as Kelsay and three # less than Denney.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Under the current regime, nope not small. I guess I was thinking of him being utilized in a creative way, since he’s apparently getting no separation from the others at DE.
At this point in this landlocked season, couldn’t a move like this really be something to explore?
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 6, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Brian is just throwing out weights and 40 times today.
Let it be known if your gonna comment on a measurable make sure you have the right info cuz Brian will get you.
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
Buffalo Rumblings
by partyboybackformore on Nov 6, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you think Poz would fit into? I think he would do better in a 3-4 as an inside LB.
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Nov 6, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t. 3-4 inside linebackers have to take on blockers. Poz is better when the play’s in front of him and he needs protection. I think he would be best as the SAM in a 4-3, where his coverage deficiencies are minimized and he has better shots at penetration in the run game.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah okay – because I was about to say his coverage is rather sub, though I like what he can bring to the run game
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
by Ghetts on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought SAM was the one that could be forced to cover a TE. No?
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In traditional schemes, yes. In Buffalo’s scheme, no.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. How about the scheme they’ll be running next year?
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would require a degree of clairvoyance I do not possess.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And here I was expecting you to tell me my horoscope…
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3-4 ILB vs. 4-3 MLB
30 front ILB’s routinely have to take on guards, to a degree. The “Ted” ILB plays on the strong side and ideally takes on any blockers that make it to the second level, and past the NT.
The “Mike” or weakside ILB, doesn’t take on as many blocks, but he still will at times.
A 40 front MLB, if the scheme and players allow, won’t meet a blocker until he sees the FB or the RB. The two DT’s force the LG-C-RG to account for them, and level no interior OL to block the MLB.
Posluszny’s strong suit isn’t taking on blockers, shedding and getting to the RB. He’s better in a fast flowing scheme where he can run to the ball.
In the passing game, the 3-4 ILB’s play short zones. Man isn’t really heavily used since their mobility is usually lesser, a result of being bigger to take on guards. The 4-3 MLB also plays the short zones, but in Buffalo’s scheme, Posluszy is often asked to cover down field, a la the Tampa 2.
The Strongside LB in a 40 front, or SAM, is really Posluszny’s best position. Posluszny is better going forward and making plays on action in front of him. Even in a Tampa 2, the Sam LB plays in the short zones.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy & Johnson missed in the article
TO was a stop-gap to fill the #2 WR role this year while Hardy was on the mend. Hardy has the most to prove during the rest of the year and he may only see limited play time because of TO. Johnson has filled in a little on the slot… (including a terrible route last week on 3rd down when we needed three yards for a first and he ran a 2 yard out with a LB covering him only to end up catching the ball and running out of bounds, another killed drive). IMO, TO will not be here next year and one of these two guys needs to step up and be able to show they can be the outside #2 WR.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 6, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If TO was anything as a free agent signing, it definitely was NOT a “stop-gap.”
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
TO was brought in because we lost out on Coles to the Bengals and TO was available. We never targeted TO in FA. The plan all along was to have Hardy as the #2 WR if he would have developed his rookie year and not gotten injured. Because he was no where near being ready for this season, the FO had to seek out a #2 WR to take coverage away from Evans.
So far, TO has “sold jerseys”, “sold tickets”, Been in the line-up each week, Been an “okay” #2 WR (too many drops, but that is TO), Been a good team-player and motivator (so far it hasn’t been about him and more about the team), and IMO lessens our developmental chances of Hardy and Johnson the more he stays in the line-up each down.
I have a real hard time believing that TO will be here next year
by dabillsr1 on Nov 6, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TO was brought in because we lost out on Coles to the Bengals and TO was available. We never targeted TO in FA.
Actually, no. Coles signed with Cincinnati on the afternoon of March 4. Owens was released by Dallas later that evening. Two days later, he was a Bill.
Bengals sign Coles
Cowboys release Owens
T.O. was brought in because we lost out on Coles, yes, but that doesn’t mean the Bills would have preferred Coles if the two were on the market simultaneously. They obviously weren’t. And HELL YES we targeted Owens in free agency – we were the only team that did!
The plan all along was to have Hardy as the #2 WR if he would have developed his rookie year and not gotten injured. Because he was no where near being ready for this season, the FO had to seek out a #2 WR to take coverage away from Evans.
You’ll have a hard time proving that, and I don’t believe it for a second. Hardy would have been a big part of the offense if healthy, but there’s no way he was going to draw coverages away from Lee Evans, and that’s why the Bills were looking at #2 receivers in the first place.
In the end, I agree with you though – I doubt Owens is here next year. But he was certainly not a “stop gap,” nor was he a front office ploy.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 6, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have phrased it as “at worst a stop-gap”. Best case, he rocks out at the position and wants to stay. Worst case (i.e. where we’re at now), he plays poorly and/or wants to look for a different team at the end of the season and he’s at least imparted some knowledge to our young WRs. I don’t think it was done specifically to sell tickets either. I also don’t think it was a bad move. Still, my money is that he’s not here next year.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Nov 6, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If TO was anything as a free agent signing, it definitely was NOT a "stop-gap."
When it comes to TO i am reminded of a statement my grandma made once.“I love you Leon, but I do not like you very much”. This is how I feel About TO. He was not here to play, he came here to sell tickets, and it shows.
by crazyoldman on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
It hurts just to read that
My proudest moment as a bills fan was watching Don Beebe chase someone down in a blowout. Is that sad?
Buffalo Rumblings
by partyboybackformore on Nov 6, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps my memory is off, but my recllection is that Steve Johnson did run a route that took him past the first-down marker and then came back to help out Fitz who was under siege.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you call coming back for the ball about a half of yard...
It was the right play call and match-up that you want on a 3rd down play… Just really poor execution on part of the receiver and QB.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 6, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I recall he went to the first down marker and then came back one yard. We differ here by about 18 inches. But my point remains that he had to come back because Fitz was in trouble. I would pin the failure on that play on the pass protection, not the QB or WR.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a bad pass
That pulled Johnson back instead of leading him to a first. He was definitely coming back to it too.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 6, 2009 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
including a terrible route last week on 3rd down when we needed three yards for a first and he ran a 2 yard out with a LB covering him only to end up catching the ball and running out of bounds, another killed drive
He was running back to terrifically catch a terrible pass that was 2 yards short on a 7 yard route.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Nov 7, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Edwards Needs to play "well enough"
Strangely, even though this was supposed to be a “make or break” season, I really think Edwards only has to do his usual “he seems good if we could only get him some help” dance again through the rest of the year.
I know new coaches like new QBs, but any coach that comes in at the end of this season (yes, I think the crew in place is done for) just has to see that there are bigger issues on this team than QB-so I don’t see a new coach coming in and gambling his future straight away on Sam Bradford or “fill in College QB Prospect here” when there are plent of other holes to fill (Shockingly, the same 4 holes Buffalo has been trying to fill for the last 6 years) on this team. A solid Tackle (either side at this point), a linebacker or another true DT seem far more pressing issues than QB at this point. Even if Edwards isn’t the future of this team he’s as good a stand in as any rookie QB is likely to be.
Guys like Flacco, Big Ben and Ryan all went into systems that were only really missing a QB. None of them would be the players they are today if they had been signed and put into Buffalo’s system (IMHO anyway)
by FrankL on Nov 6, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I were coming in as a new HC I think I would make the judgment about the QB position based on alternatives. If a player I liked a lot was available through the draft or FA I would take him. Otherwise I would wait to see how Trent did with a better o-line and better playcalling next year. Like you I would focus on RT, LB, DT (where we have a big need for a really big guy), and RG (to replace Wood when he moves to Center).
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I think Trent needs more time to get a fair shake at this. I am not walking around saying he’s our future anymore, but I know that our problems don’t fall on his shoulders. I wouldn’t be suprised, however, to see a new coach cut bait if given the opportunity.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a healthy competition though so if works out for us that we can draft a potential franchise QB or even get one from another team that would seem ideal.
by BuffaloWill on Nov 6, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McKelvin
I haven’t seen a lot from this guy to say he will be a top Corner back in the league. Very athletic for sure, but get’s turned around easily on the edge to allow WR’s 15 yard out patterns. More and more teams key on throwing to McKelvin’s side on 3rd and long situations (NE ate him up in the 2nd half of the first game).
I like Florence and could see the Bills keeping him in the starting role next year. McKelvin has a lot to prove to me.
by dabillsr1 on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a scheme thing. McKelvin has the straightline speed and cut ability to play press cover corner. I would like him in the slot with Florence on the outside. Acutally, it wouldn’t matter. I think our corners need to be more physical and jam at the line… especially with Byrdman in the backfield.
Delightfully Ignoring The Truth since 1995.
by NeverendingOptimism on Nov 7, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible O-line shift
What about moving Bell to RT and bringing in a vet LT or even a high drat pick. Brian always used to talk about how Butler was our best offensive linemen when he was at RG. Maybe move him to LG and Levitre to RG, Wood to C.
This would shake up the line while not dumping on any of our high O-line picks. Plus Hang-man excelled in his backup role with Carolina, why wouldn’t he do the same for us.
by louiethegent on Nov 6, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like this idea
If we bring in Pennington (Campbell?) to compete with Edwards, then the use of our high first rounder changes in priority.
(I don’t think we have a shot at Clausen or Locker anyway, but that’s another matter).
We use that high pick on Bulaga or Okung.
Rookie-Levitre-Wood-Butler-Bell
or
Bell-Levitre-Wood-Butler-Rookie
Either way, you have a super quality reserve in Hangartner, and history has shown that this team needs quality reserves, and often times doesn’t have them.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bell definitely has the quickness and athleticism and size to be an elite LT, so why would we want to draft anyone for that position, especially given the playing experience that Bell is now racking up? But a new RT makes sense, especially since you can get good ones in the 2nd and 3rd round. Moving Butler back to RG would be a smart move — we know he can excel there — and having Hang as the back-up gives us a high-quality guy at a position that is in fact very important on an NFL team. And we will still presumably have Jamon Meredith, who appears to have a lot of talent and can play either OG or OT, but is still raw. In a couple of years Meredith might be very good. That’s a pretty solid plan. Then all we really need next year is a DT, LB, and possibly a QB (IF we can either draft or sign someone who is really promising). A #2 WR may also be an issue depending on how Hardy develops.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d argue that we don’t know that Bell’s upside is elite at this point. His progression or lack of progression this season will determine if LT is still an area of concern.
If you draft a LT (Okung or Bulaga) and he’s not a LT, you can move him to RT. If you draft a RT (Sam Young type player) and he doesn’t work out, moving that player to guard isn’t always an option.
We can apply that same logic to Bell as well. If we draft Okung, for example, and Bell doesn’t work out as the LT, we could move him to RT, where he can again look to succeed.
Lots of flexibility, IMO, in drafting another tackle.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The question, however, is whether you draft him in the top of the first round (where you are more likely to get someone talented enough to be your starting LT) or in the second or third round (where RT’s typically come from). You are right that we don’t have the final verdict yet on Bell. It would be great if he does work out and that early first-round pick is freed up for another pressing need.
by Macktruck on Nov 6, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree. I’m all for any player that develops into a reliable starter, or better. That makes free agency easier and then the draft much easier. But I can’t say that about Bell yet.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 6, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there’s a strong chance Maybin’s playing time could increase as the season progresses
This is exactly why I was preaching for a coaching change early into the season. The problem with a lame coach situation is that he won’t put in rookie players and reduce his chance to win each week, he’ll continue to play his starters because he’s player for his job. Had we brought in a Cower/Gruden type candidate with no expectations for this year, understanding that they’ve come in mid-season mainly to start implementing their system and evaluate players, then this statement would ring more true. With Lame-coach Jauron I highly doubt he benches his veterans in favor of more playing time for his rookies.
I agree with your assessment of Edwards, Poz & Whitner. I doubt they will be leaving buffalo this off season and they need to prove themselves for the new coaching staff.
Wood should be moved into the Center role, Hangman is not cutting it. I like Butler at RT but unfortunately he’s never healthy for a full season so that alone should warrant bringing in competition either through the draft or FA. As a backup he should be able to last a whole season. It’s too bad because I think he has a lot of talent. As for RT vs RG, he plays both very well but if we can add a top LT in the draft then maybe we switch Bell to RT and slide Butler in at Guard.
TO is gonzo after this season. There’s absolutely no reason to bring him back. Actually there’s ample reasons to cut him right now if you ask me. We need to see what Steve Johnson & James Hardy can do for us because if they have not progressed enough to slide into a starting role next season, then it’s a position that needs to be addressed in the off season – and it’s impossible to evaluate someone who sits on the bench or gets only two reps per game.
Denney at a reduced salary deserves to stay on. And Ellison is great depth but not starting quality. His versatility warrants keeping him as depth but we need way more production from the Linebacking position than what he is capable of giving. He’s had more than enough chances to prove himself and all he’s proven is that he works hard and is versatile.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 6, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The problem with a lame coach situation is that he won’t put in rookie players and reduce his chance to win each week, he’ll continue to play his starters because he’s player for his job
your right. But a big name coach wouldnt come in mid-season and an interim coach would be leaving in his proven commodities to try and establish himself as a winner just like a lame duck coach.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 6, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Gruden would have been approached with the right amount of $$ and given a free half season to evaluate he would’ve taken the job. I’m not trying to imply that it wouldn’t be difficult but a good GM could have pulled it off. I can’t speak for the other Bills fans but I can tell you that my expectations would have been very low. I would have been quite happy to see our new coach working in the rookies to evaluate and start implementing his system.
I know that you disagree.
I have nothing left to say, these Bills have sucked me dry of any hope. Loosing to a team that completes 2-17 for 23y with 1 INT, that is beyond pitiful!
by keysh67 on Nov 6, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh not at all, I actually agree completely at this point.
At the bye, at 3-5 with a stagnant offense I would totally support Gruden coming in mid-season. I just don’t know if it would have been possible. Wouldnt he have to finish his contract with MNF for the year? I just dont know if he would want to mid – season ,as oppposed to waiting for competing bids in the off-season to jack up his price.
I totally agree with your idea, just dont know if it was plausible. (Plus I want Shanny!!!)
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 7, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize he's injury prone but...
Why’s everyone so down on Poz when he’s on the field. Every MLB in the NFL needs help from the DL to occupy blocks, and anytime an OL gets to the 2nd level to block a LB it’s going to be a tremendous mismatch given the average 60-75 lb weight difference along with the OL having a full head of steam. That’s physics at work. Our DL isn’t doing it’s job at occupying blockers and our revolving door system at OLB has resulted in inconsistent run fits and constant overpursuit. In recent weeks it has seemed like all 5 OL are on the 2nd level throwing blocks. I’m not saying Poz doesn’t deserve any blame for it. I just want to put it in perspective and still point out that Poz is a very good player.
by live6453 on Nov 6, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Check this out as to why
people are down on Poz
by jpheff on Nov 6, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man one thing I will say.........
I would rather watch/follow a crappy Bills game…….then not have one to follow at all.
Hate the Bye week.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 6, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hate the Bye week.
no way – you must not like football then!
When the Bills don’t play we can watch 2 games during their time slot – then 2 (which usually happens anyways) games in the opposite time slot then SNF.
I love watching other teams play – usually we get to watch good teams and competent football – I say enjoy it!
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 6, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im at work either way.....
so my watching is usually limited to Sunday and Monday Nights……..
but it doesnt matter….Im a Bills fan first……..other teams 2nd.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 6, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My wife loves the bye week. I have little to scream about. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 7, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the billls have bin playing as a team this year from 1999 to 06 it bin a one man show of bad teamwork bad playcalling 2 bad coaches wade phillips and greg williams and 4 yeares of fixing morale and now we doing good team ball now not flash football cut them a break guys
the o line has bin playing their heart out the last 3 games fizz is doing a good job at qb
all we need now is better fan support at home games and we will do fine .
by 14fizzpatrick on Nov 6, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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