Dungy: Buffalo a 'dark horse' landing spot for Vick
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 8:14 AM EST
in Buffalo Bills News
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PrintHappy Monday morning, Rumblers. By now, I'm sure most of you are aware that former Indianapolis head coach Tony Dungy, on last night's telecast of Football Night in America on NBC, named the Buffalo Bills as a potential landing spot for Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick should the Eagles see fit to move him next off-season. First, the quote, in its entirety, courtesy Mike Florio at ProFootballTalk.com:
"If they want him back, he has to stay there. If they don't, there are some teams looking for quarterbacks - Cleveland, St. Louis and Washington. But I think a dark horse is Buffalo... They talked originally. There was some communication there. I think that could be a good spot."
Obviously, "they" are the Eagles, and all forms of the word "he" is referring to Vick. Before y'all get into a big row in the comments section - which, I realize, is inevitable, given that Michael Vick is the topic of conversation here - there are a few important points to make.
"They talked originally." This isn't completely irrelevant, because the implication that Dungy brings to the table - that Buffalo talked about bringing Vick into the fold as recently as this past August, when Philadelphia signed him to a two-year deal - is interesting in and of itself. Bills COO/GM Russ Brandon denied any such talks taking place when rumors swirled of exactly that notion during training camp, but if Dungy's words are true, Brandon obviously hid it from the press. Which isn't surprising, of course, but it is interesting, because contradictions are always interesting.
Dick Jauron is a key figure here as well. It might end up being his ultimate downfall, but Jauron has a lot of say when it comes to personnel decisions. (Chalk that up to not really having a GM.) Jauron drafted Edwards, and while he isn't endlessly loyal to him like regimes are loyal to first-round picks at quarterback, the most logical source of overall organizational faith in Edwards as the starting quarterback is Jauron. He brought him into the league. He lobbied to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick as the backup so as to solidify Edwards as the sure-fire starter. He installed a no-huddle to try to play to Edwards' strengths.
If there were talks about Vick earlier this season - and again, we only have Dungy's speculation to go on there, so it might not be true - the least likely person doing that lobbying, in my opinion, was Jauron. That could mean that one of his coaches wanted Vick (and for the record, Turk Schonert was still with the team at the time), or it could mean that a member of VP of Pro Personnel John Guy's staff wanted Vick, or it could mean that Brandon himself wanted him. Either way, it doesn't matter, because if Buffalo's catastrophe of a front office structure ensures one thing, it's that opinions about certain players don't die because of a regime change, because everyone has a little input. Even if an entirely new coaching staff comes to town, Buffalo's supposed interest in Vick could survive that change. That's an important factor to consider.
"Dark horse." That's a key phrase to point out. Dungy phrased it exactly that way, and in general use, "dark horse" implies a sleeper entity, and not a front-runner. The fact that Dungy used that phrase could mean either two things: he reached into the wrong part of his brain and picked the wrong phrase, or he was attempting to convey his interest in Buffalo's being a potential landing spot for Vick while maintaining that they aren't, in fact, anything more than an equally-speculative-as-those-other-teams contender for his services. That, too, is important - if the Eagles do decide to move Vick (more on that in a minute), Dungy's opinion on where Vick should play is completely irrelevant, because Vick would go to the highest bidder. That is, if there's a trade market for Vick.
Can Philly trade Vick? Florio points it out well enough in his article, so we'll just use his point to further our discussion:
The problem Vick now faces is that his market value can only be sinking. Will any team be interested in him as a potential starter? Vick's speed looks significantly diminished and he won't get a chance to show off any passing skills in Philadelphia. Ultimately, Vick's sinking stock could make it a lot tougher for the Eagles to finding a trading partner in the offseason.
This, too, is an extremely important point. Philadelphia has three NFL-caliber quarterbacks, but ultimately, only two of them might be worth trading for - Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb. Considering the fact that Vick has seen little field opportunity this season - and that's not likely to change - Vick could be looking to change teams next off-season while still carrying the stigma of a rusty, highly unproven commodity. Any NFL team willing to trade for that, no matter the talent of the individual in question, is flat-out dumb.
Buffalo should not trade for Vick. Draft picks of any round are valuable commodities. Yes, they might reach a desperate point in their likely search for a quarterback next off-season, but that doesn't mean they need to be unintelligent about possibly making a move for Vick. As Florio notes, the market isn't likely to be high. If Buffalo is desperate, nothing more than a fifth-round pick should suffice. Otherwise, it's highway robbery on Philly's part, and the Bills still have questions at quarterback regardless.
Can Vick even play? That's the big question, and for us, it's really the only question worth considering right now, because we have nothing to do with acquiring him. As Florio noted above, Vick's not the dominant athlete he was pre-prison. In six games in Philadelphia, Vick has completed 2 of 6 passes for 6 yards, and he's got 12 carries for 27 yards. His quarterback skills were questionable before his hiatus from football - no one is drooling over his 53.7% career completion percentage or his career 6.6 yards-per-attempt average - but Atlanta was 38-28-1 with Vick as their quarterback. That's a record most Bills fans would accept at this point, but that record is likely to dwindle if Vick's athletic prowess is diminished.
Forget the "Dungy to Buffalo" argument. Many will speculate that Vick coming to Buffalo could mean Dungy follows him. Many will continue to speculate that even after I say, right here, right now, that that is extremely unlikely. Dungy will be 55 next October, and while that's still almost exactly five years younger than Jauron (Jauron: 10/7/50; Dungy: 10/6/55), Dungy has reached the top of his profession. He's won a championship. He has nothing left to prove. If he still has the itch to coach, Buffalo might obviously be an option, but Ralph Wilson has never paid top dollar for a coach, and Dungy might not be comfortable inserting himself into a mess of a front office with an aging owner and an organization that might not stay in Buffalo. If he does get that itch, there are far more appealing options, and Vick is just as likely to end up in one of those locations as he is in Buffalo.
In the end, this is all just a bunch of speculation about a guy who may or may not be able to play from a coach who seems to be asserting more opinion than fact. Still, it's certainly interesting to discuss. The poll and the comments section are all yours.
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Is Dungy Vick’s agent or something?
Nice that rehabilitating Vick is Dungy’s big cause at the moment.
dungy involved with vick all along
Dungy was actually heavily involved in helping Vick get back into the NFL. He definitely has some direct communication with Vick…
Dungy actually would be an interesting coaching choice for Buffalo. He has the right personality to get hired by Wilson, who historically does not hire firey in your face type coaches.
Advisor is a better word.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
It’s definitely more like an agent than an advisor. If he was just an advisor, he’d be talking just to Vick, not the media. In this instance he’s acting like an agent trying to stimulate interest in his client.
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 9, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
But he’s not stimulating interest right now. He’s speculating what teams might be interested just like any other network reporter will be doing.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
He's not just any other network reporter though.
He’s has direct link to the man and a well publicized one at that. He should refrain from any discussion on Vick’s future.
He said they were interested last offseason and might be in the future. That doesn’t take into account that there could be an entirely new football organization in place.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I’m just being cynical, but neither one of us really knows what Dungy’s motivations are when he names off teams like this. It’s clear that he’s invested in helping Vick out w/ his career for whatever reason. Agents often use this tactic to make it look like there’s more interest in their client than there really is, in order to drive up the price / encourage a team to act. Remember TO’s agent saying there were all sorts of teams interested in the off season? I think Dungy did the same thing last year when his goal was to get Vick signed, now I think his goal is to get Vick a starting job. Lets not pretend Dungy is just being the objective network reporter here.
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 9, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
He talked about teams that have a QB deficiancy. Is he really leading people on? I think I could sit down and probably come up with that list off the top of my head. If the Bills indeed talked with Vick or his agent, which is a possibility, it would make sense that they would want to again. That is the only thing we can’t speculate on.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Totally lied to...really makes me want to be faithful to this team/organization.
Bills COO/GM Russ Brandon denied any such talks taking place when rumors swirled of exactly that notion during training camp, but if Dungy’s words are true, Brandon obviously lied to the press.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
If a GM lying through his teeth to the media is cause for distrust of the franchise, then you literally could root for 0 NFL teams.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
It’s a two-way publicity game that every team uses. If we get the guy (in this case Vick) we talk about how much we wanted him and what a great fit it is for us (TO anyone?). If we can’t get the guy, we downplay it and say we never wanted him and it was just a rumor, which is clearly believable because of all the rumors that fly around. But everyone knows that rumors all have at least a minor glimpse of reality based on them to make them begin in the first place. The fact that they “lied to us” as fans is no issue with me because that’s the game they have to play.
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
Actually, no… rumors can be started based on nothing but the desire to start a rumor. There is this certain hockey site that specializes in rumors that does exactly this. They constantly post absurd rumors that have no basis on reality at all, all for the sake of driving traffic to their site and thus making more money. I’m sure the same happens for all sports… I’m not saying that is what is happening here, but there are plenty of rumors that get started without any basis on reality.
why do we have to trade for Vick?
Philly is not going to use its 5.2 mil option on him. We can sign him cheap .
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
The football gods invented “re-negotiation” for a reason. McNabb or Kolb could be gone via trade. Why wouldn’t Philly be interested into talking him into taking slightly less money to be a backup? Why wouldn’t Vick at least listen?
That option gives Vick a chance to become a free agent if he refuses, but the QB situation is far from settled in Philly. Let’s see how that shakes out first before we start saying we have to trade for him, or we can wait to sign him. But it does further prove one of my points – trading for Vick would be idiotic.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
To be clear
That’s a team option for the second year. Vick doesn’t have a choice if the Eagles exercise it.
Yep. When I mentioned Vick refusing, it wasn’t the option as it exists now – because obviously he can’t do that – but rather the theoretical re-negotiation Philly would undertake to keep him in a backup capacity. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I highly doubt Tony Dungy is lying here. Why would he? He has nothing to lose. The bigger fault goes to Russ Brandon and the Bills. When asked about this in August the reply should’ve been:
“We are always looking to make this team better, and we did have some discussions about it. However at this time we good about having Trent and Ryan as our QB’s as they the best for the direction we are headed” See how that works? Your not denying anything, but your also showing commitment to what you have.
Plus, if the Bills start from over next year, new GM, new Coach, they are going to want there own QB. So let’s not jump on the Vick bandwagon just yet.
Why is Brandon at fault?
I certainly hope that Russ Brandon denying the Vick talks doesn’t turn into a bigger deal than it actually is. Does it really matter whether Brandon admits to whether or not the Bills had talks with what would have been a backup QB?
Sluss – THIS would cause you to lose faith in this organization? Seriously? Yea, forget the fact that we haven’t made the playoffs in a decade, denying we talked to Mike Vick (when in reality it could have been nothing more than a 10 minute phone conversation because no one knows the actual back and forth between the two parties) is just the straw that broke tha camel’s back.
Puh-lease.
"Who is Beethoven?" - Marshawn Lynch
Its a symptom of a larger problem – we have an incompetent front office that we can’t trust that doesn’t know how to do their jobs effectively or well to any degree.
by quantumuprising on Nov 9, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
dude
we see everyday in the NFL teams saying the will never trade for X player or sign Y player or cut Z player and then they do. Trust in the front office isn’t due to being disingenious to the media, its not making the playoffs for ten years. The only incident that really raised mistrust in me was benching Flutie for reasons still unknown. It seemed like egos were more important than winning or team chemistry when that happened.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 9, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
HERE HERE!
I concur. I was so pissed about the genius move Wade made and benched Flutie for the playoff game against the Titans that I couldn’t see straight.
I live in TN and had bought my wife and I tickets for the game. We were pumped.
Then Wade made his decision (or was told to) to play Rob the Fragile.
My wife was so mad she didn’t go to the game with me. I had to endure that game…. excited that we had it won (due to our awesome defense led by Fat-Pat) after that field goal and then Buffalo went “Bills” on me again and gave up the kickoff return for a TD.
That moment was WAYYYY worse than “wide-right.”
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Nov 9, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly hope that Russ Brandon denying the Vick talks doesn’t turn into a bigger deal than it actually is. Does it really matter whether Brandon admits to whether or not the Bills had talks with what would have been a backup QB?
It’s not a big deal. It’s just interesting. I suppose the mere fact that I brought it up will make it a big deal, but I did it with a point – and Michael Necci basically hit it on the head with his comment.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
The issue as I see it is not Brandon lying, but Dungy being indiscrete. If the Bills were talking to Vick’s agent in August it indicates that they had less confidence in Trent Edwards in private than they were maintaining in public, which is something they would obviously have wanted to keep hidden from Trent unless they actually pulled the trigger on a deal for Vick. My guess is that the folks at OBD are not exactly happy about Dungy spilling the beans this way — and in fact if those talks in August were supposed to be confidential he shouldn’t have.
On Vick himself I agree with everything Brian has to say. He is not the answer to our problems at QB and we shouldn’t divert ourselves from solving that problem by signing him next year.
Well Brainiac!
The fact that we’ve been lied to isn’t the sole reason I question supporting this organization. I really didn’t think I needed to SPELL OUT ALL THE REASONS! There is no reason Brandon couldn’t respond as Necci noted above and shown below. This is a prime example of how poorly the front office handles situations like these.
"We are always looking to make this team better, and we did have some discussions about it. However at this time we good about having Trent and Ryan as our QB’s as they the best for the direction we are headed"
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
I don’t see any reason to have to admit to talking to him. And I certainly do not think it is a prime example of a poorly handled situation.
Things we poorly handle: paying/hiring coaches, scouting, free agency.
Things we do well: marketing/ticket sales.
Things that are irrelevant: whether we admit to everything that happens behind closed doors. Every NFL team does it, even the good ones (check out the Patriots!)
"Who is Beethoven?" - Marshawn Lynch
This is really the only way to look at it rationally, at least in my opinion.
Brandon doesn’t owe the fan base a damn thing when it comes to confirming/denying speculation that the team is interested in Player X. The only reason he should talk to the media about that specific rumor is if it is beneficial to the business process.
Getting lied to through the media happens every single day. I’m not sure why this particular topic would be so offensive, when the team has lied about literally thousands of things throughout the years. It’s just the media. The media is, in reality, a pain in the arse to the business process, and ultimately, anything you say and do through them could be detrimental to your plans. There’s a reason, after all, that nobody knew that Terrell Owens was in town this past March until his contract was signed.
The idea that someone should be offended because Brandon had the audacity to publicly support his quarterbacks and dodge the question of Vick is absurd and petty.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brian,
Just because lying to fans and the media happens everyday doesn’t make it right, or make it a reason for me to not be upset. Would you not be upset if your wife/girlfriend was lying to you? People lie to their spouse/sig. other everyday, so would that make it alright? I understand what you are saying, and I don’t want Brandon’s head for lying about the Vick issue. However, this issue plus the current state of the organization has me frustrated again with the front office and I was letting that be known above.
If a GM lying through his teeth to the media is cause for distrust of the franchise, then you literally could root for 0 NFL teams.
Let me also ask you this, do you think the Tony Dungy Colts ever lied about situations such as this? Tony Dungy is a stand up guy with morals, he won a SB, but I’m sure he didn’t find it necessary to stoop to Belichik levels and lie about issues big or small. He took the high road.
Call me naive, but this world, including sports world (ie, Spygate, NBA refs gambling, etc.) would be much better off if people were just simply honest. But what is the drama in that, and we all know people love drama…
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
I think your going a little overboard here.
If Brandon came out over the summer and said we want Vick or are actively persuing Vick then you have 3 things.
1) You have a fanbase that’s probably not pro Vick ( but that isn’t too big an issue)
2) Your young QB now knows that you don’t have confidence in him ( which is a huge issue BTW)
3) What if he goes out and says that – then we don’t sign Vick because he doesn’t want to play for Buffalo? That means we look more incompetent and can’t even get a convicted felon to play for us.
Stop thinking this is so complicated and
would be much better off if people were just simply honest. Obviously this would be the best case scenario – but the media doens’t allow that to happen because that’s now how they operate.
you do understand how the media operates right? and that every little thing gets skewed and manipulated so a story is there? if you have issues with Brandons way of doing business – start with the media – because that’s why he said what he said.
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I was a TO fan, before he came to Buffalo, so yes I understand how the media skews every little word. However, again if he had been honest and stated the below statement from Necci, everything would be good.
“We are always looking to make this team better, and we did have some discussions about it. However at this time we [feel] good about having Trent and Ryan as our QB’s as they the best for the direction we are headed”
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Well Brandon did say this:
Team COO Russ Brandon said the Bills have “no interest at this time.” Said Brandon, “We’re comfortable with our roster as it stands right now.”
which is almost exactly what you just block quoted.
We’re comfortable with our roster as it stands right now or we feel good about having Trent and Ryan as our QB’s as they are the best for the driection we are headed.
same thing – dude
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I knew what he said, he missed a key part though…
and we did have some discussions about it.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
semantics
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, I am not pro-Vick in any way (due to his lack of abilities, not off field issues), just so you all don’t think I’m secretly mad that we didn’t get him. It’s all about honesty/loyalty for me!
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
@Sluss88...
Dude, we understand your point, but its ridiculous to expect someone in the organization to under-mine their own plans.
What if they were interested in Vick and wanted to sign him but didn’t want to let any other team know they wanted to sign him so that the Bills could offer a better deal without over paying for fear of other teams jumping in the mix?
Let me put it this way…a reporter asks Brandon, “So, what is your gameplan today?” Should Brandon reply by saying “Well, this is normally secret, but since you asked. We plan to blitz heavy on 1 & 2 downs and then backoff on 3rd down in the hopes of confusing the young QB, and well on offense, we’re going deep on the first play”?
The point I am trying to make is, the FO is going to have to lie a little to maintain a competitive edge (althought the might the last thing I would describe this team as having) or at the minimum, try not to be at a competitive disadvantage by laying out your plans in front of every other team. And there is really no reason to tell the truth to anyone except the owner.
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 9, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Besides, the lying is generally...
in the teams best interest (and yours)…
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 9, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Would you not be upset if your wife/girlfriend was lying to you? People lie to their spouse/sig. other everyday, so would that make it alright?
You’re equating a human relationship to a football team’s words that you hear through the media. I don’t think I need to describe just how astronomically different those two things are. Plus, you’re not married to the Bills.
Let me also ask you this, do you think the Tony Dungy Colts ever lied about situations such as this?
First of all, they’re the Bill Polian Colts. And they have not been immune to scandal. Rumors circulated for a while that they pumped in crowd noise into the RCA Dome. There have also been some minor spats about the way they reported injuries to the league office – which, along with the actions of many other teams, led to rule changes this year. Everyone lies, Sluss. It’s not about drama, it’s just self-serving, and it shouldn’t be so offensive.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Plus, you’re not married to the Bills.
Are you sure some of these rumblers aren’t??? haha
pumped in crowd noise into the RCA Dome
True, I guess even people with the utmost morale have dishonest people surrounding them…
PS – I’m over this whole “lying” issue, but I honestly don’t think I was being “absurd and petty” for thinking we shouldn’t be lied to.
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
But that’s the thing. We are not being lied to. They are concealing their intentions to the media. That allows them to conduct business without the all-seeing eye. To use your analogy, it’s like you want to surprise your wife so you lie to her. That way if it doesn’t work out she never knew it was coming but if it does work out she is elated. It’s not telling a lie to be an a-hole.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the analogy about 'surprise'
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 9, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with some minor changes
Things we do well: marketing, some pre-emptive signings of our own UFA’s, college scouting. Scouts don’t make decisions. They just provide information. Most of the scouts the Bills have grew up in the Polian/Butler years. They can only provide information and opinion to the likes of Donahoe, Levy, Modrak, and Brandon. They make no selections.
Things we don’t do well: big free agent signings, some pre-emptive signings of our own UFA’s, hiring coaches (to a degree).
Irrelevant: what we say to the media that happens behind closed doors.
Going back to our discussion the other day about the quarterback situation -
This could work out reasonably well for next year – we could sign vick (or kolb) if there’s some sort of qb situation in philly, and use either as a stop gap for next year/mini tryout, then draft someone in next year’s draft as the franchise qb.
Just a thought.
draft the best QB you can get at our 1st round spot and bring in a real veteran as a backup. maybe vick, maybe someone else. If the rookie struggles in camp and looks like he needs a year before starting then you have a viable option to start the veteran and leave the rookie as backup for a year. This is how most successful teams do it. See the Titans for example.
at the end of the day
we have to think about our options – and when we do we still come back to drafting a blue chip QB:
Trent Edwards > Tarvaris Jackson
Trent Edwards > Sage Rosenfelds
Trent Edwards > Kerry Collins
Trent Edwards ? Kevin Kolb
Trent Edwards ? Mike Vick
Trent Edwards = Chad Pennington
Draft time.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 9, 2009 9:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, let me fill in the question marks for you...
Trent Edwards < Kevin Kolb
Trent Edwards > Mike Vick
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Better? Really?
I’m not sure Trent is that much better than Tarvaris or Sage. Both guys show confidence on the field. Unless Trent comes back and plays confident, he can’t be considered better than very many qbs.
I’d love to see Vick just for the sake of a QB competition. If Trent stays, he needs someone to push him. Otherwise, he’ll turn into JaMarcus Russel.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
Well Sage is under contract with Minny for at least another year.
Jackson will probably be available as a FA so we shall see.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
in those cases
the better than is because Trent knows the players and the system and bringin them in wouldnt give us a better chance than having Trent try again. We need to draft a QB or Trent has to play lights out to finish the year.
By the way, drafting isnt a sure thing either. Matt leinart looked terrible yesterday and Alex Smit hand Vince Young are trying late comebacks. Drafting a blue chip is scary too. I wish Trent would just play well.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Dark Horse
Chad Pennington
I’d be pretty comfortable saying Vick wasn’t going to be a Bill next year. We will probably either:
A) Draft a QB and have him start or Edwards start again with a QB learning
or
B) Draft a QB and have Pennington start with a QB learning
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
All legal and moral issues aside, Vick never was and I can; believe has somehow become a good QB. The Bills need a good QB, Vick isn’t it.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 9, 2009 9:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
There’s how I am feeling. :-)
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Also; anybody who is upset and thinks that they feel lied to because the Bills said they had no interest in Vick, and now Tony Dungy is saying that they might sign him next year, is just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and must not have much of a clue as to how GMs IN ALL SPORTS work.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 9, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Damn Eric...
Come out of your shell and say what you really feel…
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 9, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Vick
The Bills, like every other team in the NFL, should have no business believing Vick could compete for the starting job. He looks like he’s lost his best asset (athleticism), while his mediocre asset (passing) is now even worse. Why would any team give up a draft pick or again go through the opposition from fans of bringing Vick in for a guy who doesn’t look anywhere near the mediocre player he used to be? This franchise doesn’t need some 30 year old convict trying to revive his career. It needs a young, face of the franchise that they build around. With a whole new front office (please) and coaching staff, I’m not sure how Buffalo’s supposed previous interest in Vick is even relevant anyways.
Vick and Dungy package deal? No chance. It’s one thing to help a desperate man out and even go to bat for him as you help him, but a whole other animal to tie your reputation to him as the face of a franchise you head. Dungy isn’t going to come out of retirement and make Vick his QB, especially with how terrible Vick looks playing.
And who cares what Brandon said before. He may have “lied”, but big deal. This is professional sports where posturing and bending the truth is a major part of competition. If anybody is offended or upset by this, they need to re-evaluate their understanding of how professional franchises operate.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 9, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
And who cares what Brandon said before. He may have "lied", but big deal.
Yeah – I’m already irritated with myself that I used the word you quoted there. It’s going to lead to a lot of misinterpretation.
My point didn’t center around the lack of truth, it centers around the point that Brandon felt the need to blow the question off. I find that interesting. I find the actual words he uttered interesting:
“We wouldn’t have any interest at this time, we’re comfortable with our roster as it stands right now.”
It’s interesting because, like any throw-away quote, something can always be read into it. Lied was the wrong word, but the main point of emphasis should be the meaning behind Brandon’s words, not whether or not we should be offended that Brandon didn’t disclose to the fans that the team had discussed Vick.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn't really referring to you Brian
I see some responses about feeling lied to….that’s where I was coming from.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Oh, I understand that. I’m just saying my use of that word brought about those types of responses. :)
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, the eternal pursuit for that word of perfect clarity. :)
Mmmph rrgh prrmf! - someone with his mouth gagged
by Dyl on Nov 9, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
That word of perfect clarity has always been right in front of you...
by NorCal BillsFan on Nov 9, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Hahahhaaha....if only it was that easy to shut him up!!!!
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Right because fans who feel this way about a Vick discussion must also feel the same way about what Ralph WIlson essentially said last week (that he was still working to bring a SB to the fans).
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 9, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Who cares if Brandon "lied", "misspoke", misinterpreted, lead us on a wild goose chase, etc...
if the guy is try to deflect media attention that even thinking about bringing in a guy like Vick would create, I’d say the less fans and media know the better (unless it actually happened). Wasn’t the Bills less than forthright with bringing in TO saying they weren’t interested initially?
If keeping things from the media and fans because it helps Brandon or the FO manuever better behind the scenes, then so be it… just as long as they are improving the team (or at least making the effort).
It doesn’t surprise me to see that the Bills “kicked the tires” on Vick. They are a bad football team and have to do everything they can to unturn every stone out there to see if it is worth making an investment in. The problem they have is actually finding a “diamond” under one of those stones.
I believe Dungy’s comments can be interpreted as “Buffalo is a safe/nice place to play” where there wouldn’t be much scrutiny from media or fans other than the local ones. The team coaching is “safe” and he can be “coddled” as a player. Everything about playing in Buffalo from around the league is that it is a “nice place to play”.
With all that said… Don’t sign Vick unless he is your #4 behind Edwards, a draft choice, and a proven Vet. Then let the top 3 battle it out in the off-season and OTA’s, preseason, then cut or trade one of them going into next year.
"Buffalo is a safe/nice place to play"
From the media perspective, yes. But looking at the injuries the last few years, Buffalo has been anything but safe from a health standpoint. It is a nice place, especially if you want work to end the first weekend in January.
"They're Killin' Me Whitey. They're Killin' Me" -- Lou Saban
Face of the franchise
absolutely correct K, this franchise is faceless. we have no leaders. the team needs a QB that is a leader and someone that will put this team on his back and not be afraid to do what is necessary to win. Trent Edwards is not that guy, he would rather blend in and be part of the problem and not the solution.
I am really suprised at the amount of the people who want Vick to start...
I wasn’t much of a fan of his QB skills in Atlanta, but he looks horrid this year. And he really just leaves the Bills still needing a QB except he still has to relearn football some more and you have to make an offense that just works for him.
And for anyone that thinks just bringing in a ‘good’ QB can solve all the problems – has anyone looked at the Bears lately? You have to fix the lines first.
I was born in Buffalo, and NO, it's not a suburb of New York City
I tend to disagree with the idea that “you have to fix the lines first”. I think more than anything, you have to be opportunistic. If you have a suspect line but have the opportunity to pick up a franchise QB, you absolutely go for it; it would be pretty foolish, at least in my opinion, to pick up a franchise lineman over a franchise QB. It may not solve all the problems, but it would certainly make us a better team, or any team for that matter. You can win with a suspect line and a very good/great QB.
"Who is Beethoven?" - Marshawn Lynch
I agree about needing more than a QB. However, with the Bears…I think Cutler’s a bit overrated and wasn’t a proven winner with the Broncos. I think McDaniels knew he’d be tough to work with, style-wise.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 9, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I am shocked that so many people are in favor of him starting for us.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
I voted “no.” I don’t care about the man’s past, I care that his present offers less than what the Bills currently have. He’s an interesting person to discuss, no doubt. I just see his potential signing as a doorstopper on the wrong side of the door.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 9, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Fans are desperate for any QB to be a #1 for us...
Watching NFL football games every week, they can see QB’s young and old all over the league step up and throw the ball all over the field. Then fans wonder, “Why can’t we see that in Buffalo?”
These are the same people that have cried for Jauron to be fired and April promoted. It won’t make the team better but it’s something. I can’t agree with doing something that will likely not make the team any better.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
It’s SOMETHING. TO is a sideshow. Shake up the main attraction. Whether it’s fire Jauron or bring in Vick. Something needs to happen.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
But he’s saying this is a bad thing. We don’t want any more side shows; we want them to make the team better.
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 9, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
You're right,
I read it wrong. But I’ll stick to my point. For too long we’ve been ho-hum, plod along, hope to score something in the draft only to come away with average at best players. Something needs to change.
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
thats not true at all
the people who think Vick starting is worth a shot are people who see how much talent we have on the roster and want someone to try and get the ball to them.
As Philip Rivers was quoted saying “When my receivers get downfield I’m throwing to them whether their open or not”
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
As Philip Rivers was quoted saying "When my receivers get downfield I’m throwing to them whether their open or not"
nice
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.... Rivers is the anti-Trent
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
the people who think Vick starting is worth a shot are people who see how much talent we have on the roster and want someone to try and get the ball to them.
Well how can you say Vick is that guy? His career numbers are terrible. He has been out of football for a few years. I just don’t see how anyone can be willing to put the franchise in a guy’s hands when he has been away from it for so long and wasn’t that great before being away from it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
right
im not saying I’m sure if hes the guy but I’m saying some people would rather throw in a guy who has been to the playoffs then try Trent again. I think the Yes vote is so high because people are answering as if the question was “would you mind if Vick was the starting QB” under the assumption that its Vick or Edwards again.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 9, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that argument. I just don’t agree with it. It’s like trying to swim with a 10 pound weight on your back and switiching it off for two five pound weights. :-) I don’t think it makes us better.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I like that saying haha.. never heard it before but it makes sense…
People in western New York would respect you a lot more if you went out, busted butt and they saw it in the way you did things on and off the field. - Darryl Talley
I just made it up. Six one way half a dozen the other. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Similie is your friend.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
One should never mistake activity for progress.
Bill Polian and AJ Smith are gone, so there's not the usual balance between "sane" and "others." Ralph has mentally checked out since 1994. It's a very dangerous time. The coalition for reason is extremely weak.
by thatguy34 on Nov 9, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Vick Option
If Vick’s option isn’t picked up by Phily, clearing him to be a UFA, then I consider him. But only in competition and only in a one year type situation. And if it came down to Pennington or Vick, Pennington’s the choice the whole way. But I wouldn’t mind having both and Edwards at the right price (s).
Another way to think about this: Brandon has a knack for marketing, and if we look at Vick from a marketing point of view, this makes sense. This provides room for the new leadership to get things in order, and as the season nears an end, potentially drawing 2011 season tickets through good play.
EG: New GM (hopefully), new HC and staff (potentially). Bringing in Vick could help with ticket sales for one year, negating what could be a down year for sales. The team shows 2011 promise. Vick essentially bridges the marketing gap for one year.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 9, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I actually think it’s a hard move to market. “Come see our convicted felon!” doesn’t have the same ring as what they said about T.O. and his baggage.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not so convinced
America constantly gives second chances. Even if some fans disagree, most will forgive and hope to see him compete and win on the field.
Fans give second chances, true. But a large, well-funded group don’t follow most people around protesting them like PETA has done with Vick.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
PETA
I don’t condone what he did. He was convicted in court, sentenced, and paid his sentence.
If Vick was a Bill, what PETA thinks is near irrelevent IMO.
Or rather..
Would more fans buy ticket because of Vick?
or
Would more fans be turned off because of Vick’s past and/or PETA protests?
I’ll bet the former.
I agree with DJ
As long as he behaves, Vick’s past is old news and will not be an issue with most teams who might want to sign him.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
I agree with that from a personal perspective. However, PETA protested in Philly when he was signed there. Why wouldn’t they protest in Buffalo?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
In fairness…It was a weak protest, there were like 5 people sitting in lawn chairs holding signs.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
That is because the Eagles were giving out free cheese steaks
on the opposite corner. Need two hands to eat those, then a nap :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
At the time it was a "new" story and people were interested in what would happen
It is kind of like most sequels……not nearly as exciting as the first one.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Pennington is always hurt
if we want to trash a season we can sign Pennington and watch him break something by week 7
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 9, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
haha...so true.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Just in time for the rookie to get his feet wet
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Man, does that sound like a Bills-esque move
Vick essentially bridges the marketing gap for one year.
Just like the T.O. signing, who cares if his skills are in decline and his “best” years are behind him. He will sell tickets. Rec’d
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Not only does it sound list a Bills/Brandon move...
… but it would make sense for a new coaching staff, essentially deflecting attention from the team and focusing it on Vick. It gives the new staff about eight games / first half of the season to get things in order.
The exact opposite of Jauron who takes all the pressure onto himself and would never put one of his players in that position.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Matt, did you forget the Bills signed T.O. ???????
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
No. Do you think he signed Owens just to distract people?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah....pretty much.....and something to do with selling out games .... and jersey sales
Oooooo, and media attention, dropping passes, sulking on the sidelines, taking plays off, quitting on routes…..did I mention the dropped passes???? Wait….what where we talking about again? Ohhh yeah, the over rated dog killing QB….yeah, I can see why Brandon would want to sign him….because he would make the team better….riiiiiiiggghhhttttttttttt.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
That’s been my point all along, Joe. I don’t think Vick makes the team better. Owens, for all his me me me stuff, was supposed to make the team better. They had no reason to believe his numbers would drop so dramatically. They had already sold 50k+ season tickets when they signed Owens and most of the games were already sold out or well on their way.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 11, 2009 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
It's not really a HC transitioning pressure to a player
Maybe I described this poorly.
It’s fairly likely that a new coaching staff is going to struggle early on. Everyone knows this. Ticket sales might decline, though having a new coaching staff might spur ticket sales, depending on who the HC is.
So we’re really looking for a strategy to do two things:
1.) Create interest in the team in order to sell tickets.
2.) Vick’s competition for the starting QB job, and potential play, could work to deflect attention from the team as a whole. This is exactly what the new coaching staff needs to have.
Josh McDaniels is a case in point. After the Cutler fiasco, Brandon Marshall got all the headlines. Quietly, McDaniel was building a Belichick-like atmosphere in Denver.
The Bronco’s winning has taken more pressure off than anything. But if they were losing, Marshall would be the talk of Denver, not the bad record.
That’s what happened in Kansas City. Pioli and Haley are in rebuilding more. They haven’t really had to focus on how bad their team is… because Larry Johnson has had the spotlight.
It’s more like Brandon transitioning pressure to a player. I don’t think Vick would complain though. He’s got a better chance playing in Buffalo than in Phily.
Vick
No thanks. If it would have been this year I was all for it. Not now. If we get a new regime and Vick is our guy, I really hope not. I want a franchise QB. Vick is 29, clearly has lost his speed, and brings so much baggage with. It would have to be the right OC, and the right offense for him to succeed. This year he might have won us some games, but if we are going to get this shipped righted correctly, we need to draft a QB of the future. If that QB isn’t in the 2010 NFL Draft, then maybe Vick is an option.
MARVelous - "I went from America's team to North America's Team" Terrell Owens
If we’re to sign Vick, which I personally don’t advocate at all primarily because he’s just a bad QB, I’m sure we would have drafted a quarterback in the first round, because Vick is – as I mentioned – just not a good QB. He may be one hell of a playmaker, but everybody who has followed his utterly disappointing career in Atlanta would know that he’s never going to be a very good QB; he’s simply too erratic and inaccurate, when it comes to throwing the football.
Two “qualities” he shares with J.P.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 9, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions
Can I get an explanation?
Why has so far 197 people voted for Vick to START FOR THE BILLS next season?
First off – he’s not a good QB – seriously people – we’ve all seen his QB “skills” and he pretty much sucks behind center.
Second – he clearly has lost a step
Third – In what way shape or form does acquiring a crappy QB that can’t read defenses, lost his only ability to make plays and create resentment from the fanbase help the Bills build for the future?
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
I’m hoping it’s Dungy and his congregation voting yes
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 9, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
38-28-1. I’m not a fan of Vick, on or off the field (though I think his off-field stuff should be ignored at this point due to his rehabilitation into society). However, he did lead a few of those Falcons teams to the playoffs. Something non of the QB’s we’ve had in the past decade have done. That’s all.
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
and based off of current knowledge you think he could achieve a + .500 with the Bills? Taking every thing into consideration?
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think any quarterback could achieve a +.500 record with the current state of the Bills. However, if we bring in a so-called veteran QB we can afford to address other positions in the draft and develop a young QB as well. I just think if we’re gonna bring in a veteran, it might as well be a guy who can at the very least escape the pass rush more often than most and provide some excitement along the way. I’m trying to increase my entertainment value
B-B-B-Byrd Byrd Byrd, Byrd is the Wyrd!"
who can at the very least escape the pass rush more often than most
yes, but good QB’s also escape the pass rush by just stepping up or moving side to side in the pocket.
You don’t have to be nimble to avoid the pass rush – look at Brady, Manning(s) or Brees – they just step up or move slightly. You don’t need a super fast guy to escape the pass rush.
vick doesn’t help the Bills – if he did i’d be all for him – but he doesn’t and won’t – we have to draft our QB of the future
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
His last start was three years ago.
In 2006 he went 7-9. In 2005 he went 8-7 as a starter.
That last Falcons team to make the playoffs was 9-7. Hardly a world-beater.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
2 big IFs
IF the present brain trust remains, they might sign him. It’s a bonehead move and it’s what THEY DO!
IF a new regime comes in and they are the experts we hope they are, they wouldn’t even consider it.
“He lobbied to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick as the backup so as to solidify Edwards as the sure-fire starter.”
Maybe this is a little outta place, but, anyone else wonder if the DJ has a bias for people from elite academic institutions? Maybe DJ’s problem is that he thinks he’s putting together a team of whiz kids to swing financing deals in Beijing.
or maybe
hes trying to put together a real life version of “Revenge of the Nerds”. I can see the headlines now:
“Dorks shock world as all Ive League Team beats out 31 meat head squads for Super Bowl title”
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
by poz on Nov 9, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can personally guarantee that Jauron’s preference of Fitzpatrick would not have changed had he attended Greendale Community College. It’s all about the tape.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
well, i’m not sure that’s reassuring about DJ’s talents…
anyway, just a little levity because that’s about all we’ve got at this point … a little gallows humor. :)
Loving that show more and more.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Really? The more I watch it the less I like the show and more I like Joel McHale.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
How the #$%^@#$% can you not like Abed?!
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Aren’t these arguments conuter-productive, Brian? You’re judging me on my opinion after all. LOL
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. That whole thursday night on NBC is pretty fricken awesome.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Here is the best argument I can make for signing Vick – I call it the Marbury argument.
Stephon Marbury was one of these phenomenal athletes who could take over a game with pure athleticism. Yet I got the impression that every time he was traded away from a team, they got better.
Vick bore this out in Atlanta.
Maybe, if we sign Vick, play him for a couple years and then trade him after some more 7-9 seasons, we will all of a sudden ride that surge of sudden improvement! We’ve put up for it this long, what’s another couple years?
the Knicks still suck
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
ha! true, but better than they were when marbury was there! that’s not saying much, I’ll give you that. I also never claimed it was a “good” argument.
hahaha
being a knicks fan, Bills fan and Mets fan is really ,really really demoralizing over a lifetime. I’m 0-7 in championships as a fan. And now they all stink. Even worse, my favorite team of all of them (the Bills of course!) is perpetually average!! GRAHHHHHHHHHHHH
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
What I find amazing......
Richard is almost 60 years old!!!!
He’s a great shape for a 60 year old……I thought he was 50…..
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 9, 2009 12:42 PM EST reply actions
He's aged greatly in the past 6 years
Check out some pictures. He looks like he’s tucked 20 years of aging into 5.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
That may be true......but I volunteer at an elderly care facility and he's looks younger than people I see who are 15 years younger than him.
Although today I met a 96 year old woman who ballroom dances and been doing it for 5 years……..she takes the prize for the most awesomist woman I’ve ever met.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 10, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand why people are saying MV’s QB skilled have diminished? He has thrown a whole 6 passes this year!!!! The man hasn’t played football in over two years and now everyone is expecting him to come into a game in teh middle of it for one play and throw 15TD’s. Talk about being unrealistic….
“IF” (and I say if) Buffalo gets MV next year and it doesn’t costs us more than a low round draft pick, it would allow us to address the other glaring errors that this team has like OLB, DT and OT with high draft picks that could hopefully have an immediate impact. They could then use one of there lower draft choices for a project QB like the kid from Nevada.
By drafting a QB in the first round you are subjecting the potential for a franchise to be set back another 5-7 years if he doesn’t work out. Is MV better than TE maybe/ maybe not but I think he adds anither dimension to us that can’t be argued. Lets see him play more than a few plays before we say the guy sucks.
nice honestabe! nice....
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Lord knows MV cant be any worse than what we got going on now.
Pass the chocolate cake!
by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 9, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
The only skill that has diminished is his running speed. The only thing we can accurately say about his QB skills are that they’re rusty, and that’s because he’s not playing. If you want to call for a trade for a QB with rusty skills and slowing-down legs, have at it. :)
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I assume the added “dimension” that you’re referring to is his speed and athletic ability? First of all, that appears to be much less than what it was. And even if Vick eventually gets back to what he was pre-prison, does that make the team any better? If you’re truly ambivalent about whether he’s better than TE, why give up a draft pick (any pick) to get him?
by Frank Reich Revolution on Nov 9, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I feel that he is better than TE but I didn’t want to start a pissing match. I think he is more athletic and better skills at the QB position than TE. I know people disagree with me here but TE is way to mechanical in the pocket. He has good form and footwork which leads to a high completion percentage but he has (what I think) is a slow release. This is why plays like the quick slants are difficult for him. IMO one of the reasons why we also haven’t run the quick out to the WR.
MV gives you these plays while also able to extend plays longer with his feet. With an OL that next year will still most likely be average and still young this is very important.
As for draft picks it would be a 5th or 6th rounder only, but I truly believe that Philly will release him at the end of the year because they can’t keep that much money invested in 3 QB’s. The only way that they don’t release him is if he is able to get into a game (in a blow out situation or the last game of the year that would have no playoff ramifications for the Eagles) and preform admiriably thus raising potential trade value. Either way I think he is out of Philly after this year.
On the other hand....
By drafting a QB in the first round you are subjecting the potential for a franchise to be set back another 5-7 years if he doesn’t work out.
Well, what are you doing if you are constantly depending on mid round picks and other team’s castoffs? That’s so much worse….
And what happens if you actually hit on the QB? You are set for a decade. Imagine that!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
The bottom line is nothing happens regarding any roster moves until we have a new head coach… When we bring in someone new next year he could be totally against having MV and then theres the end of this rumor.
HOWEVER… I still wouldnt mind him being on our roster next year. Not as a starter, not as a wildcat… but as a 2nd string quarterback, nothing more. Maybe throw him out there as a slot receiver and use a bubble screen (a la wes welkers bread and butter)… but never as a 1st string starting quarter back.
People in western New York would respect you a lot more if you went out, busted butt and they saw it in the way you did things on and off the field. - Darryl Talley
Why is that poll even as close as it is?
Vick never was particularly good at QB. They always led the league in rushing and played good defense, but when it came to the inevitable crunch time where any actual NFL QB is forced to throw, he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell. That 4.2 40 time is long gone. Apparently the 1 hour he had available to work out in the yard in prison was not enough to maintain his former uber-athlete status. If the most integral part of his past success is indeed a thing of the past, then he would not give us a much better chance of winning than a Gibran Hamdan would. I mean that with the utmost sincerity. The days of the running QB are over. The vast majority of NFL defenders can run much faster than Vick can now, so forget what he was and please take an objective look at what he is now before you hand him the keys to the franchise.
I'm changing my vote to yes.
That way I can give up caring about the Bills in July. It will save me a lot of money and give me all day Sunday to do whatever I want.
by twoeightnine on Nov 9, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I would take Vick under one condition...
That condition being Dungy comes with him as head coach.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I don't see why...
…we have to always go with the tabloid headlines and obsess over what we would be like with a mike vick at qb. the fact of the matter is we need to give trent the rest of the year to prove that he can get the ball to our weapons, manage and win games whether or not our rags tags turning ramshackle o-line starts to “gel.”
unless we can go on a run here and rip off the 5 next game and then at least one of the final 3, tricky dick is getting booted and we’re demoting trent and bringing in a proven guy like a jeff garcia (i don’t like him either but he’s dependable) while we target our next great hope at QB.
I like Dungy, but
let’s be honest. We can’t assume he would have the same success in Buffalo that he did in Indy. Why? Because we don’t have Polian or Manning. Dungy was a defensive guy, right? What makes his opinion of Vick’s skill as a QB gospel?
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
although peyton is an awesome qb on his own.
im sure some if not half has to come from coaching. arent some of us complaining that we think edwards is actually a good qb, but that he hasnt had the proper coaching to fulfill his abilities? i dont know if dungy can bring vick to pro-bowl level, but he does have some success in qbs in the past
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Nov 9, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
besides Manning?
and I don’t think even Mike Mularkey could have screwed him up.
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Wait a minute
So what are you telling me? Jim Caldwell isn’t the greatest coach of all time?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I would have to say the Jury is out on that one :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
i voted yes
and let me tell you why. if everyone is assuming that edwards probably will not be the starter (based on his pace so far in 2009, if that changes then i will re-evaluate) then buffalo will probably draft a qb. whether its bradford, tebow, locker, or lefavour, he will be a rookie and some competition would be good. if the bills can get vick for cheap (after his performance this season i cant see how they wouldnt) that would essentially put a three way competition between vick, edwards, and the draftee. something that would probably be good for this team. not to mention that a new coach is probably on the horizon. im sure with a new coach will come a new offensive strategy.
if dungy comes with vick, then i think that alone makes it worth it. although i dont think dungy is coming back to coaching.
but in all reality, the buffalo offense has been very unimaginative and crappy these past few years. signing vick will at least give us quite the dynamic qb in the backfield, no matter what you think of his throwing skills, his scrambling and play-making ability is obvious. and isnt that what many bills fans want? play-making?
in conclusion, vick cant be worse than edwards in my opinion, and will give any drafted qb a lil time to learn and some competition. i think its win win.
of course this means my sister (who is a vet) will chastise me for liking the bills, but im sure many of you on the site know about my feeling on the whole dog thing.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
One thing I’m surprised hasn’t come up is the way in which Dungy brought Buffalo up. He basically listed every team that could be looking for a QB as a possibility and then said that Buffalo was a darkhorse. Are we really supposed to read too much into Dungy listing Buffalo as one of the 5 or 6 potential landing spots when Dungy has himself somewhat invested in Vick and all he did was list the teams that look like they need a QB the most?
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Why not?
Just bring him in, give him a chance and let him compete for either the starting or backup position. If he is as bad as his detractors claim, then at least we’ll have a veteran backup with playoff experience. And if he gets back into shape, we can run some wildcat.
As long as we don’t start him unless he earns it, what’s the harm? This isn’t even a gamble, assuming that we have reserve the option to keep him on the bench.
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