Can Maybin do this?
by csc06258 on Nov 9, 2009 11:47 AM EST
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PrintMy buddy posted this on twobillsdrive and I thought I'd share the clip. We were both huge Orakpo fans and still are and cannot believe the bills past on him. Well here is a pretty sweet clip of him literally picking up a 300+ lb O-tackle. This guy is an animal and it too bad the Bills FO doesn't know how to analyze talent. Although my point is to not start an Orakpo vs Maybin thread entirely, it is inevitably going to happen. My buddy and I are just trying to point out how Maybin lacks the strength to even come close to executing a bull rush.
Maybin needs to put on at least 30 lbs of solid muscle if he ever hopes to execute a bull rush in the NFL. This clip is a perfect example of a Bull Rush and how to literally drive your man into the backfield. Hopefully Maybin can one day be a stud like this guy. (I believe Orakpo had 2 sacks yesterday). I'll just keep waiting for Maybin to "develop" while I watch this stud wishing he was a Bill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AglSpWWkGbE...feature=related
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
I still would rather have a pole
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Suddenly Buffalo’s front office missed on Maybin because Orakpo had a good bull rush?
Appreciate the link, but seriously, let’s not draw any conclusions.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions
I think csc06258 is saying the front office missed on Orakpo…Maybin hasn’t done enough to draw any conclusions.
Orakpo does have 5.5 sacks which is more than anyone on the Bills Roster.
Orakpo is also playing SLB. Sincerely doubt Buffalo evaluated him in that capacity.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Brian- He also plays DE and Redskin fans want to see him playing ONLY de cuz he is so good they say. The only reason he doesn’t play DE on a full time basis is because they have two very solid DE’s. But Redskin fans say he is the best DE they have had for a long long time.
Fans are always rational. We should trust them.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
So you are saying our Front Office failed to evaluate a player in a capacity that he turns out to be very effective? That doesn’t go a long way to justify their decision to miss on Orakpo.
How many times have we read on this site that people want Maybin to play LB due to our injuries? I don’t agree with that philosophy, but had the Front Office done their due diligence (that you “seriously doubt” they did), we could have drafted a defensive end who has the ability to move back to SLB during our rash of injuries.
I’m saying Buffalo wanted to draft a DE, and they took the guy that they thought would eventually be the best DE in the class. Obviously, considering he was the first pass-rushing DE off the board.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Apples and Oranges comparison
Orakpo is playing on a defense with Albert Haynesworth, the best DT in the NFL, and Andre Carter, a legit edge rusher.
When Orakpo rushes from SLB, he automatically is being blocked by a TE or back. Haynesworth is double teamed, and the other three DL take on a single block.
If Orakpo shifts to DE on passing downs, he’s only going to get single blocked, by a RT, for the same reasons above.
Can’t compare the two.
What a terrible argument
Read what I wrote.
If Orakpo shifts to DE on passing downs, he’s only going to get single blocked, by a RT, for the same reasons above.
My argument assumed that Orakpo would rush against a starting Right Tackle as a down rusher, or blitz as the SLB.
This video shows Orakpo rocking Tony Hills, the second string LT for the Steelers, in pre-season. You completely disregard that Hills has had massive leg issues that required surgery, caused him to shift positions at Texas, and which has caused him to have trouble maintaining weight.
This is your argument? Seriously…
is your argument seriously saying you would rather have maybin than orakpo? like i said in my post, I “didn’t” want this to turn into a Maybin vs Orakpo fight, I was simply stating the power this guy has. It happened to be Orakpo bull rushing in this vid, but I was trying to point out that Maybin cannot do this!! He cannot drive 300+ lbs OT backwards. He can only run around them. That is my argument!!!!! My argument is also saying he can take on a Tackle, I understood your point above, I was just reiterating that he can take on Tackles and he can make plays in this league
is your argument seriously saying you would rather have maybin than orakpo? like i said in my post, I "didn’t" want this to turn into a Maybin vs Orakpo fight, I was simply stating the power this guy has.
Good Lord. You can’t be serious. Look at the title of the post! If that’s not SCREAMING for yet another pointless Maybin vs. Orakpo argument, I don’t know what is.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Not impressed - Running start
4 solid running steps before first contact with a stationary LT. I bet you half the DEs in the league could do that. What happened after the first contact and lift? Not much, Hills regains his balance and stops him!!!!!! In fact, I do bet Maybin could do this too.
Bills-fan-who-wants-a-GM
by can on Nov 9, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think almost any 250lb DE or LB with a 4 step running start could do this… I don’t think it shows much
Bills-fan-who-wants-a-GM
by can on Nov 9, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't
a 250lb DE or LB with a 4 step running running start is only gonna move the blocker by using lower leverage.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 12, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Maybin is playing. He’s on the field for between 25 and 35 percent of defensive snaps, as far as I can tell. For a 21-year-old rookie DE, that’s not terrible, particularly since he hasn’t been able to do much.
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by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Can't get into the Maybin v. Orakpo thing
But getting anxious for Maybin to show something, anything. For a guy playing 25 to 35 percent of the time he is very unproductive. He has a grand total of 6 tackles. That is one more than the immortal John McCargo (who I think we can safely say was a colossal bust.) Maybin’s next sack will be his first sack. I would love to see him make just one play where I could say “nice”, not even “great.”
Right! You don’t like him! We. Get. It.
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 10, 2009 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
Liking him or not liking him
has nothing to do with whether he has done anything when he is on the field. He either has performed or he hasn’t.
Hence why I said it was “inevitable” but i was just trying to show how strong you have to be at DE in the league to be able to drive O-lineman backwards.
What about leverage can't you get your arms around? (No pun intended)
While coaching the wrestling squad at the U of Iowa Dan Gable, at roughly 150 lbs, would routinely chuck much larger boys – most 20 years younger than him at least, around the mats like toys.
Don’t hurt to be strong. In fact, elite wrestlers tend to have very low body fat and very high muscle development.
But, it certainly isn’t all brute strength.
But when you teach leverage to one with brute strength.
That’s an unstoppable force.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 12, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Pointless?
Brian, why do you consider this debate pointless? It’s perfectly reasonable to question whether the Bills made a good decision here.
The debate also raises interesting questions about the Bills’ draft philosophy. The Bills selected the risky option with (in their view) more upside, and passed on the conservative option with (in their view) less upside. In other words, the Bills were drafting for the future. The problem that we critics have with Maybin is that we doubt the Front Office is intelligent enough to reliably predict Maybin’s upside.
Evaluating whether the Bills should be drafting for the future (arguably, Maybin) or drafting for now (arguably, Orakpo) isn’t pointless at all — it’s worthwhile.
by Flutie Flakes on Nov 9, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone knew that “now” was “now,” including but the Bills, but they purposefully chose “later.”
by Flutie Flakes on Nov 9, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I would guess from studying him on tape, watching him work out, looking at his college record, talking to his college coaches — all of which no doubt led them to make an educated guess (which is all the draft ever is).
As for Maybin, the Bills really needed to win this year, so picking someone who they may have believed had great potential in the future was inherently a bad move on their part. No way around that — no matter how good he turns out to be down the road.
yea the guy was a freak for a couple years in college, and maybin was a one hit wonder, not even a starter
Yeah, Orakpo’s 5.5 sacks as a junior and 5 sacks as a sophomore screamed freak, can’t miss prospect. When Orakpo was the age that Maybin currently is, he was a college junior racking up 27 tackles, 8 of which were for a loss and 5.5 of those were sacks. Maybin was a one hit wonder because he was a freaking sophomore. Orakpo had a better track record (if you can call 21 more tackles and 6 more sacks in an additional year of play, at a much older age a better track record) because he played an additional year at a much older age.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Maybin wasn't a starter?
That’s funny. I remember watching Penn State a few times last year and seeing his name and picture included with the PSU starting defense. Did the networks all get that wrong?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
he wasn’t a day one starter, he came in for an injury. He was not the starting DE going into their season
Neither was Tom Brady and he won a Super Bowl.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Brady is a product of the system.
Matt Cassel is a perfect example. Looks like an all star with Bellichick, looks like captain checkdown with Haley/
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 13, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you just compare Cassel to Brady??
Did you just compare Cassel having a decent season with Randy Moss and Wes Welker to Tom Brady winning Super Bowls with no name receivers?
Do I think Brady is overrated? Yes. It doesn’t mean he isn’t great. Come on man….
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Woah woah woah…. You can say Cassel was good because of the system. Don’t go dragging Brady down into that. He broke how many records two years ago? System or not you have to be good to do that.
And Cassel wasn’t an all star. He got sacked a lot.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
So what
He was a sophomore. How many sophomores start at Penn State or Ohio State or Florida or etc…? Isn’t it more important how he actually, you know, played during the season, not where he was on the depth chart in late August?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
It’s perfectly reasonable to question whether the Bills made a good decision here.
Yes. If it was 2013.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 9, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
again, you wait till 2013 to get a sack while I watch Orakpo do it weekly as a rookie. You are satisfied with mediocre players and waiting to be good. well keep waiting and keep watching mediocre seasons because this team is not going anywhere with mediocre players.
I'm watching Orakpo now
Shoot, he’s one sack away from Bruce Smith’s rookie sack total.
He’s only got about 195 to go, right? Should be great!
Glad to know you got the point.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 10, 2009 5:32 AM EST up reply actions
I guess you’d say Carson Palmer was a bad draft pick because his rookie numbers were nonexistent, and that we should pick up Jevon Kearse based on his anomaly of a rookie season. If anybody expected Maybin to be a solid contributor halfway through his rookie season after missing most of training camp, they really didn’t understand what the pick was about. Right now we have a very good RE in Schobel. We drafted Maybin to replace him in the coming years.
by Dr. Brackish Okun on Nov 11, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I respectfully disagree
Yes. If it was 2013.
That’s the sort of defense that the Bills Front Office routinely offers to shield itself from accountability. “Just wait and see,” they say.
Decisions can and should be evaluated when they are made, based on all the available information.
by Flutie Flakes on Nov 10, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve never understood this argument that the Bills somehow “shield themselves from accountability.” Do you think fans are idiots? The Bills don’t. Russ Brandon has repeated over and over and over again that it’s playoffs or bust.
You can’t let your distrust of the front office seep into the obviously flawed judgment of making a snap decision on a player. If you’re arguing that for the 2009 Bills, Orakpo would have been a better pick than Maybin, that’s fine. It’s an opinion that I don’t agree with, but it’s fine. But that’s only arguing one aspect of the decision. Jairus Byrd looks like a brilliant pick now, but what happens if he takes the Whitner route over the next four years? Does the decision not still have relevance at that point?
I have a problem when the projections go beyond immediacy (and immediacy, I think, is the fatal flaw of fan bases everywhere), into what those players will be in the future, because as you so adequately began to describe it, that information isn’t yet available.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 10, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said...rec'd
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Has Whitner.......
Ever had seven picks in a season?
NO!
Has he even had 2?
Look up the stats….NO!
Bad comparison Brian.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 13, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Byrd has more picks in 8 games.
Then Whitner has in his career.
There's not a wide receiver who is fast enough, that J.P. Losman can't overthrow him on a fly pattern.
by The Buffalo Kid on Nov 13, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
It's not a comparison at all
He said what happens if Byrd starts producing like Whitner in the future…..He didn’t say Byrd is the next Whitner…..
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Yep. Understanding fail on your part.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 13, 2009 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
Been here before
You’re whole argument states that Orakpo can bull rush and speed rush, and is doing it, while Maybin can only speed rush, and isn’t prducing now, and is therefore better. That argument is not defendable.
We’ve had this conversation before, precisely on October 27th. I posted this:
Far Too Early to Slap Maybin with Bust Label
Skimming through some rookie sack totals- focused on current players with a couple exceptions. Didn’t look at Reggie White due to USFL time:
Jared Allen: 9
Andre Carter: 6.5
Trent Cole: 5
Dwight Freeney: 13
KGB: 1.5
Aaron Kampman: 0.5
Patrick Kerney: 2.5
Leonard Little: 0.5
Robert Mathis: 3.5
Julius Peppers: 12
Bruce Smith: 6.5
Will Smith: 7.5
Michael Strahan: 1
Jason Taylor: 5
Justin Tuck: 1
Osi Umenyiora: 1
Kyle Vanden Bosch: 0.5
Mario Williams: 4.5
Conclusion: rookie sack totals aren’t indicative of future success. If so, Kampman, Little, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, and Vanden Bosch would have gotten cut after their rookie "bust" year. The two guys on this list that broke double digit sacks are physical freaks with elite gifts (Freeney: speed; Peppers: overall athleticism).
There’s too much to learn as a pass rushing DE to grade success in terms of statistical performance. There’s too much to learn in terms of footwork, hand fighting, and play recognition… and then putting it all together. Maybin is nowhere near bust-land. Patience…
Again, comparing Maybin and Orakpo is comparing two players with different styles and therefore not a good comparison. And predicating “draft success” or “future success” on rookie success isn’t a good measure, as shown in the above call out box.
To add onto that:
Mark Anderson might have won the D rookie of the year with a 12 sack rookie season a few years back, but only has a handful of sacks since then. Tambi Hali, a first round pick, had 8 sacks his rookie season and had 3 last year. Carlos Hall had 8 sacks as a rookie and got cut a couple years later after recording 2.5 sacks in 14 starts in his third pro season. He only lasted one more year in the league. Anybody remember Lorenzo Bromell? He had 8 sacks as a rookie and never lived up to that season. Mike Croel had 10 sacks as a rookie and another 14 during the rest of his career.
Let’s not anoint Orakpo as the next great NFL player yet.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
O.K so rookie sack totals don’t prove anything. What “does” prove something is watching a guy who is a solid player. A guy who has the strength, the speed and the determination. Orakpo IS going to be a great player, he is already showed that. Maybin “could” be a great player (hence what your saying from your sack totals). Wouldn’t you rather had the “IS” than the “Could?” Everyone knew Orakpo was a stud, every scout and draft guru. The only ones who didnt were the Bills, and now you and I have to wait and hope Maybin will be good. We have done this with a lot of players (Mcgargo, Losman, Mike Williams, Donte Whitner, Erik Flowers, etc, etc..) You better hope Maybin isn’t another Mcgargo or is it still early to call Mcgargo a bust? I’d rather have the sure bet. Trust the experts, the guru’s, the good scouts. Cuz at least if you draft a guy that everyone says will be good and he goes bad than everyone got it wrong, not just you
Terrible Points
Everyone knew Orakpo was a stud, every scout and draft guru.
You’re going to have a pretty difficult time proving that one. Plus, if everyone knew he was that good, why didn’t he get drafted 3rd overall by KC, who needed a OLB edge rusher?
Trust the experts, the guru’s, the good scouts.
Please let us know which scouts you’re in contact with, so we can set the record straight. And draft guru’s and experts measure success on players drafted per rating block, not by how many players they said would be good and who wouldn’t be. They also measure success by how many picks they predict, where success is less than 50%. So we’re not talking about something that anyone is real accurate with.
So your point that everyone knew Orakpo would be great is pretty moot.
The only ones who didnt were the Bills, and now you and I have to wait and hope Maybin will be good.
The draft is not a science- it’s inexact. There’s no way that everyone knew anything. Find us a draft guru or expert that had Maybin and Orakpo more than 5 picks apart in April pre-draft mocks. For Orakpo to be that much better than Maybin in everyone’s view, then the spread would have to be almost a full draft grade, which would mean Maybin should have been drafted in the late 20’s. That wasn’t the case, and almost no one had him drafted there.
Orakpo IS going to be a great player, he is already showed that.
Kaisertown makes a great point above. Orakpo isn’t a great player yet. Nor is he a guarenteed future star. He still could be Carlos Hall, Mike Croel, or Lorenzo Bromell.
Again, it’s inexact. You keep claiming that you know things about the draft, Orakpo in particular. The facts say that you can’t know anything during the draft or rookie season.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 10, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd!
I love unsubstantiated claims that get absolutely wrecked.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Nov 10, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I love unsubstantiated claims that get absolutely wrecked.
That comment alone is worth a rec also.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Then do it :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
The "pantsless" decision has many layers to it, doesn't it :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
More like crazed 2 year old that requires a little attention at all times and it makes my reading comprehension suffer.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
Ha....just wait until the "Why" questions start coming :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
Mike Mayock had Orakpo as the 1st “Hybrid” DEOLB and Maybin at the 5th. I think Mike Mayock is the man and know his stuff. He also said Maybin can’t stop the run at the college level and he said so he KNOWS he won’t be able to at the NFL. There is one expert for you that said Orakpo was better.
Also, I like a guy that actually plays a couple years in the college level versus one who played 9-10 games, but thats just me. Orakpo played at a high level for an elite college program.
Maybin played 26 games over two seasons. He was almost as productive as a freshman as Orakpo was as a sophomore or junior. Seriously, Maybin finished his college career with 21 fewer tackles than Orakpo did.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Mayock also had Robert Ayers as the best pure DE in the Draft. I suppose you can make the argument that he’s been nearly twice as productive as Maybin (11 tackles to 6), but it’s hardly a ringing endorsement of Mayock.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 11, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not what I said
Where did Mayock have them overall? Give me an overall ranking of total talent in the 2009 draft. That’s what I said, not ranking edge rushers.
I wanted Orakpo too
he was consensus better pick but I’m ok with Maybin, I believe in him.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Me too... and I'm a PSU fan.
Maybin needs to learn how to push guys aside, as he’s not big enough to push them back Orakpo style, and running around them is worthless…
They are hard to play but not hard to beat.
- Mike Lombardi on the Buffalo Bills
Please look at Orakpo next to Maybin, they are not in the same ball park. Maybin is so small. My seats are right in the end zone where they warm up. He is skinnier than T.O. This guy has very long arms and is tall. He is not very muscular “compared” to Orakpo. Maybin is not what he is listed. Ill also say that “no” the NFL didn’t lie about how much Maybin weighs, but Maybin did. Did you know a gallon of water weighs 8.5 lbs. He could easily drank and ate a huge meal before weigh in to put on the lbs. He was a big “if” once he did put on the lbs cuz he couldn’t run at the combine. His 40 time was 4.88 while Orakpo was 4.7 something. Than Maybin ran a better 40 time at his pro day when he put on the spikes and ran on a track, not a field, makes a big difference, ask sprinters. Maybin apparently weighs the same as Robert Mathis. PLEASE look at a google picture of these guys next to eachother. Mathis has a gut! and Maybin is very very very skinny
The very least you could do is be accurate. Maybin ran a 4.79 at the combine and his 10 yard split time of 1.55 was faster than every DE (including Orakpo …. by a lot) except Clay Matthews.
They weigh guys at their pro day too. Maybin weighed in and then worked out at 252 pounds.
Penn State has their pro day inside on a very similiar surface to Indy’s field. It’s not on a track. Maybin did not wear cleats with big spikes.
Here’s an article that shows Maybin running at his pro day and in a happy coincidence has that ad for the place where Maybin prepped for the combine. So there’s a couple pics with his shirt off.
http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/maybin_significantly_lowers_40.html
Yes, Orakpo is bigger and much more polished than Maybin. He’s also two years older than Maybin. Any chance that Maybin is undersized because he’s 21 years old? Here’s a couple pics of both of them at the combine:
Orakpo:
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0410/nfl_g_orakpo_400.jpg
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/85125775.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193B946C5A518E7D4C16BAA391FCE58CE5AB01E70F2B3269972
Maybin:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/K_2yNm7i_W_/2009+NFL+Scouting+Combine+Day+5/t8v7R0xmC1N/Aaron+Maybin
http://lh3.ggpht.com/K7rgxm4bdVc/SedihAXY8I/AAAAAAAAHrY/euT4mb-LfTc/45236235.jpg
Obviously, that’s a pretty big difference, but does anybody other than csc look at those pics and think that Maybin’s size is some kind of doomsday situation where the guy is definitely going to bust? Maybin is skinny, there’s no denying that, but again, he’s 21 years old. He’s going to get bigger. He’s already gained substantial muscle mass since last year and he’s only going to get bigger.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 10, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
owned
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Nov 10, 2009 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
I know i’ve gotten bigger since I was 21…….
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 10, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think I am starting to shrink :-(
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
What are we talking about now, guys?
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
did i say maybin is going to bust? thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said he could be good and we “have” to wait again and see. Orakpo is good already, so keep waiting buffalo rumblings.
And people are saying him playing well this year doesn’t make him good over the long haul just like Maybin not playing well yet is no indication of if he will be good.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
You go to the supermarket with a significant other. Hit the fruit aisle, see a delicious looking watermelon and a delicious-looking cantaloupe. You want the former; wife wants the latter; by natural law, wife wins argument, you go home with the cantaloupe.
You sit down to dinner, the cantaloupe isn’t ripe enough to eat. You go fruitless for this meal, and possibly a few more meals. Meanwhile, your neighbors rave about that watermelon they got today at the supermarket – perfectly ripe, delicious, really made their evening meal.
You shrug at your wife with a cocky smile on your face and say “Hey… guess we should have gone with the watermelon.”
Let’s not pretend that you’re solely pointing out that Orakpo’s having a good season, or that he can pick up a backup tackle. No human being is that narrow-minded. Everyone has ulterior motives. And yes – we get your point.
Buffalo Rumblings. On Twitter.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. --Wayne Grezky" --Michael Scott
by Brian Galliford on Nov 10, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I am recing that simply because you used a story about melons to make an argument. It csc has used it I would rec it too.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Can you update your metaphors for the 21st century?
Actually, for the 20th century too!
Ha, that was a nice one.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
As long at this team runs a 4-3 Maybin will always be a situational pass rusher that will not get pressure
Maybin is no heavier than 220 I dont care what you tell me. Look at him next to ellison, Maybin looks smaller. This was a horrible pick as a 4-3 team.
and my personal fav:
Maybin, our 4 year project is awful and not meant to be a 4-3 End
You’ve consistently claimed that Maybin is too small to succeed. You bash the pick as often as anybody talks about any specific topic. Maybe you havn’t actually used the word bust and I probably shouldn’t have either, but let’s not pretend that you’re out there simply stating the facts about Maybin and Orakpo.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and those points have been valid points thus far. Until he proves us wrong, i think its O.K to question the Bills logic picking Maybin over Orakpo. I had a college draft party in which 20 of my friends attended. Not one was happy with the Maybin over Orakpo pick. I don’t understand how this site and so many of you are in favor of Maybin. Time will tell, I hope he turns into a stud, simple because I am a Bills fan. I think Maybin is athletic and has a great attitude. I simply wouldn’t have taken such a “raw” player with the 11th overall pick.
It’s not that people are hugely in favor of Maybin or anti-Orakpo. Maybin is the one the Bills drafted and before you give Orakpo a ringing endorsement of label Maybin a bust we’d just like to see the benefit of the doubt for, ya know, one season or more.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 11, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
no, they are not "valid points." hell, they're not even points. they are opinion and conjecture.
by LeClaireBill on Nov 11, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
he is a situational pass rusher- Point!
by csc06258 on Nov 11, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is one of the first ironclad things you have said to this point. :-) I am going to rec it.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 12, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
haha Kaisertown, the very least you could do is look up facts, what a joke
I was in fact wrong, Maybin ran a 4.89!!!!!!!!!!!!! at the combine so you are completely wrong. And he was SLOWER than orakpo. Here is the link, and by the way everyone else, I did not get “OWNED” You people.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/aaron-maybin?id=80433
Interesting. If you google Maybin, 4.79 or Maybin, 4.89 you get well over 1,000 results either way. I got my info from NFP because I remembered that 10 yard split data was in that article:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/behind-the-times-the-10-yard-split.html
Maybe 4.79 was unofficial? Either way, I guess it’s good that DEs don’t have to run 40 yards (although Maybin ran a 4.59 at his pro day and I actually think will get faster as he adjusts to his new weight).
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
well everyone was blabing about how fast he was and saying how its his “key” asset and i find it funny that he ran a 4.89 at the combine on grass with his “new weight.”
Well I just want to be done with this covo because yes it too early to tell and I wasn’t trying to start a Maybin vs Orakpo thing here. Time will only tell between these two but it looks like if the Bills wanted an immediate impact player that could of helped the pass rush “this” year it would have been Orakpo
Mathis has a gut!
Uh oh. Maybin’s only had about 6 months to work on his beer gut. Man does he have a lot to learn about playing the NFL.
You really use some ridiculous attributes to try and “prove” Maybin stinks and is already a major bust. My turn…
Did you know Michael Oher grew up poor and barely educated? Bust!
What about Malcolm Jenkins being just a 3 star recruit? Bust!
Aaron Curry went to Wake Forest who’s best recent NFL alum might be Ricky Proehl. Bust!
Percy Harvin went to Florida just like past busts Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell. Major Bust!
Clay Matthews and Brian Cushing have lady hair. Uber Busts!
Donald Brown is the first UConn RB to play in the NFL. Bust!
Alex Mack was just a TWO-star recruit and shares a name with a 90’s show on Nickelodeon. Bust and a half!
See, those are just are ridiculous as your arguments!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
You can dice it and slice it any way you want to. And the above is the most interesting piece of circular lousy logic I’ve seen in years.
“Maybin is so small.” Yep, according to NFL.com he’s 10 lbs lighter and 1" taller than Orakpo.
“Maybin is not what he is listed.” Probably true. Wouldn’t be the first, nor last NFL player to fudge his weight.
But I’m sure Orakpo told the truth, right?
So, from your seat in the end zone you have become some manner of expert scout that can see the future?
Dude, you have igorned every manner of logical argument on this thread, particularly Der Jaegers, and just keep repeating the same stuff. Groan. Go root for the Redskins, then.
By the way – this reminds me of NFL.com’s Top 10 sack artists of all time show. Lawrence Taylor – as great as he was – was 5th or so – because it is easier to accumulate sacks from an OLB position than D end.
I’d be very curious – since you watch so many Skins games – how many of Orakpo’s 5.5 sacks came on a blitz – a relatively unimpeded path to the QB – and how many came from a traditional DE position?
I’m less than interested in looking at half naked men. I’ll just take your obsessive word for it.
by LeClaireBill on Nov 11, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I dont watch a lot of skins games, none actually. I just read about him cuz i liked him out of college and thought it would go awesome if he actually fell to us, so I couldn’t tell you. I just know that he starts, plays, and makes a contribution to the team, thats all, something I would like to expect from a top 15 pick in the draft.
Wait a minute
You haven’t even WATCHED Orakpo and you’re talking him up so much?
Wow, simply amazing. Wow again.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I have watched individual plays of his, not entire games. I don’t spend my time watching the Redskins, but I have seen clips of him playing. Wow sorry for liking another player outside the Bills lol
If I just watched the highlights on ESPN of players I would think they are great too. Of course I would also do a little digging before posting something declaring how great he is, but that is just me I guess.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
didnt post something declaring how “great” he is. I was just asking, “can maybin bull rush like this?” It happened to be a clip of Orakpo his draft counterpart but I was simply going for: does maybin have the strength to push guys back into the Q.B or is his only move to run around OT’s, thats it.
Direct quote from you:
I’ll just keep waiting for Maybin to “develop” while I watch this stud wishing he was a Bill.
While that doesn’t say that Maybin can’t get better, it does say that you think Orakpo is currently a stud, there for no longer needing any development having already hit stud status in his rookie year. I’m sorry but you saying a player is a stud with a great bull rush implies you think he is great.
Also, I might just add that this would not be the first time you jumped the gun and were too quick to judge somebody one way or the other.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Nov 12, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am not trying to predict whether or not I think a guy will be a bust. Orakpo provided immediate impact while we have to wait for maybin. This team does not have that luxury, we are not that good. As for the Byrd pick, you are contridicting yourselves by saying hes great after a couple games. If he is already great having 7 picks than Orakpo is already great having 5.5 sacks. Again, it is too early to tell, but it does look like both Byrd and Orakpo have been good picks. I still dont like the byrd pick since it did not fill a “need” at that current time. Yea he has came in for an injury and played great which is fantastic. But at that moment in time, I would of like an Offensive tackle, you know someone who could give our QB some time to actually throw the ball and win a game. I love Byrd and he is quickly becoming one of my favorite Bills, but at that time he wasnt drafted for an immediate need so i didn’t like the pick. And trust me, a lot of people did not agree with that pick, so I am not crazy (at the time) to have bashed the pick
As for the Byrd pick, you are contridicting yourselves by saying hes great after a couple games
But eric watches every snap Byrd plays not highlights.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Plus
Nobody is saying Byrd is a 10 year All-Pro or anything. He’s playing great, right now. It doesn’t mean he’ll keep that up for his career. Nobody is complaining that some player that we all knew was raw isn’t playing at the same level Byrd is!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
I still dont like the byrd pick since it did not fill a "need" at that current time.
well that’s a difference in philosophy then.
Drafting by needs is taking into consideration – but if a player is rated so much higher on your board than a “need” position – then you take the better player.
drafts are about getting better players – the Byrd pick was based off of their board – and they so far have been justified.
don’t blast them for not taking an OT that might not even been their top 3 players at the time.
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice
by J2 on Nov 13, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
If you only pick for need something isn’t right, though.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Did I say Byrd is great? You gripe that people keep putting words in your mouth, but here you are doing the same thing. All I said was that you were to quick to judge a player one way or the other. You claimed that Byrd was a bad pick and he would make little to no impact. That is obviously wrong. While Byrd hasn’t reached great player status, he has in fact made a nice impact this year.
This only proves two things: 1) like Orakpo, Byrd is having success in his rookie year, but that doesn’t mean it will continue, and 2) you seem to have a habit of jumping the gun and proclaiming a players career one way or the other little early.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
guys, guys
lets not drag old posts into this…that can get ugly fast. We’ve all been wrong in the past..
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Speak for yourself, poz. I dare you to find one instance where I was wrong. /sarcasm
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 13, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
worthless?
Lets compare pre-season vid clips. Maybin’s page on NFL.com has a clip of him running past the Lions left tackle and getting a strip sack that the Bills recovered.
Orakpo is off to a pretty good start, no doubt. He’ll be a good player, as will Maybin in time. I don’t think there is any argument that Maybin is not as physically developed as Orakpo at this time, and I’m pretty sure the Bills training staff is aware of this.
However, this clip has as much to do with leverage, and the Stillers tackle being too upright as it does with Orakpo being some manner of unusual physical god.
Interestingly, NFL.com lists Orakpo at 6’3 260 and Maybin at 6’4 250. So why does Maybin have to add “30 lbs of solid muscle?”
Sure, some more mass won’t hurt Maybin at all. But, catching a back up tackle too high in his stance and off balance won’t hurt, either.
also, don’t you think maybin might get a little slower if he puts on pounds? makes sense right. And see my point below about his speed, the reply thing didnt work when I hit it.
Maybin, maybin not.
He’s 21 years old. According to scouts, he has the frame to add mass without sacrificing his extraordinarily quick first steps. Time will tell.
Look, I get that you think Orakpo is a great player. Like I’ve said, he’s off to a great start. Hard to argue with that.
But this quasi arguement that Maybin is no good because you have man love for Orakpo don’t hold water.
Why can’t they both be good? This ain’t a mutually exclusive deal.
seriously, Orakpo is very fast, he ran a great 40 at the combine. You obviously have not watched him play, i
Also have to point this out:
Yes, it was great that Orakpo picked the guy up…but did he get to the QB? You use this clip like it is proof that Orakpo is a monster pass rusher, but fail to see that he was a complete non factor in the play.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
nothing – just that he wanted Orakpo – which we’ve heard over and over
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying
Trent Edwards - Backup QB until furthur notice. Care to prove me wrong Trent?
by J2 on Nov 9, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
its almost getting a bit creepy. put the texas media guide down, and get a playboy.
by LeClaireBill on Nov 9, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it proves he has crazy strength and that he can practically bench press a 300 pounder to the floor. He can bull rush and has speed.
It proves no such thing. Once again, you’ve elevated hyperbole to an art form.
“Practically bench press a 300 pounder to the floor.” Good grief. The vid clip shows nothing resembling this description.
In reality, what it does show, is a very good young player getting under a less than saavy o linemans shoulder pads and driving him backwards.
Hate to break it to you, sir – but this is pretty common. Happens every Sunday when O linemen use poor technique.
No, it proves the back up tackle, in preseason, had very poor position and no leverage.
Once again – if you want to compare preseason clips, go watch Maybin screaming past the left tackle for a strip sack on NFL.com.
Maybin is going to be just fine, but he needs time to get accustomed to playing in the NFL and growing into his frame, and when he does that, he’ll be one difficult DE to stop.
by BillsfanfromDenmark on Nov 9, 2009 4:29 PM EST reply actions
While we’re at it, we should have taken Ngata instead of Whitner
by DCRumbler on Nov 9, 2009 5:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Funny.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 9, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
soooooo not funny ....... because it is acutally true :-)
"Are the Bills better than we think, or do they just suck the life out of most teams they play and drag them down to their level? - oompaloompa
very true
I dont understand the people at this site. sometimes i think I am taking crazy pills. seriously? you rather have whitner than Ngata Matt?? I am losing it. I cannot believe I am the only one that wishes we had Orakpo, unbelievable.
You are going crazy because you can’t recognize sarcasm when you read it.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I meant funny as in “what’s the point of bringing that up in this thread?” Obviously Ngata is a stud. We passed on Tom Brady too. Fools!
I don’t care if we have Orakpo or Maybin at this point. I expected very little from our rookie pass rushing DE no matter who it was.
Playing Realistic Optimist at Buffalo Rumblings since 2008.
"Matt’s pretty valuable to y’all. Cherish him." - BG
by MattRichWarren on Nov 10, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Tom Brady’s career would have been ruined if he was drafted by the Bills. Just sayin’.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 10, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it was sarcasm (thanks Matt!)…I understand the frustration but 1) too early to judge impact of either (i.e. Mario Williams development), and 2) I don’t see the point to lementing picks. Its’s a crap shoot. I mean, I wish we would have Aaron Kampman. So do 31 other teams. Everything looks clear in the rear view mirror. Moreover, though I like the site, I would still take Modrak’s opinion over Walterfootball’s and the like.
But at least we Buffalo sports fans can agree that one Buffalo team had the greatest draft pick in any sport of all time – Taro Tsujimoto
csc
No matter how many times you mention Orakpo’s strength and speed, it’s not going to make him a Bill. Yeah, I know, it’s hard to believe that it’s impossible!
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Methods
Scientific Method:
Have a theory and support or disprove by facts
Example of this: Maybin’s future performance can’t be judged by current performance or body type.
Fact 1: Many rookie DE’s have been terrible, then went on to have great careers.
Fact 2: Many great rushers have been one-trick-pony speed rushers.
Non-Scientific Method:
Have a theory and ignore facts that don’t support the theory.
Example of this: Orakpo’s current success and body type indicate he’ll be a better pro.
Disproving Fact 1: Rookie sack totals don’t always indicate future success.
Disproving Fact 2: Many undersized ends are successful.
Find a fact that supports your point, and we’re listening.
by Der Jaeger on Nov 10, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
i dont think maybin is under-sized
havent we posted over and over again he is taller than orakpo and only 10 pounds lighter? everyone had to know maybin wasnt gonna get 20 sacks this season right? the more reps and time he gets, the more he will get it. hes incredibly fast off the edge, its crazy, problem is right now he runs himself out of the play too often. but thats a great problem to have. i mean think about it, complaining hes too fast off the edge?
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
by silverstreak3k on Nov 10, 2009 4:00 AM EST up reply actions
Jason Taylor clone
That’s what I see Maybin as. Once he learns how to use his hands, get OT’s off base, and adds a counter and a couple more moves, he’s going to be a load off the edge.
You know, speed isn't everything
nor is freakish ability. I watched Robert Ayers pick up a fumble and rumble to the end zone for a TD. That’s a game-changer no matter how he came into the play. A couple series later, a rather slow safety took the ball to the house for the Steelers. It takes more than athletic ability to succeed in the game.
I like Maybin (and love that they actually made a pick for someone based around talent) but I wonder if he’s able to learn what he needs to learn from the other DEs. I’d love to see him as a rush backer, but that will stunt his growth as a DE.
Twitter: helping to make anti-social people anti-socially social.
by TheAfghanTwilight on Nov 10, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions
why?
but I wonder if he’s able to learn what he needs to learn from the other DEs.
why do you wonder this? I’m sure he can learn, he’s been in the presence of guys like Lavaar Arrington and Shawn Merriman for a lot of his life.
To me, the sucker is the person who runs when there’s trouble, especially when this situation was so easily foreshadowed….
Very irrational support of Maybin
- Fact: Dick Jauron went into the draft stating that our pass rush needed to improve. Well, Maybin has been a non-factor. Granted, Orakpo may have had more value this year. Another point regarding Maybin – He started less than a full season, filling in for injured Maurice Evans.
- If you really want to address what the Bills true needs were, they missed on Michael Oher, Tackle, who some say will make the Pro Bowl and has been the “best” offensive lineman on the Ravens.
- Also, Bills were looking at Brian Cushing, and it looks like our Linebacking corps sure could have used him now!!!! Cushing will probably win defensive rookie of the year. Byrd looks like a great find in this draft, as does Levitre and Wood, and probably Shawn Nelson. As for Maybin, do the Bills have time for him to develop, that is the question? And will he? It took many defensive ends time to develop. And Maybin should still be in his junior year at Penn State.
Like CSC you are confusing support with patience. Honestly I would have loved Oher, I would have been okay with Orakpo also. Do the Bills have time to wait for Maybin to develop? Well they have to now, but if the question is should they have picked him and planned on waiting, my only response would be this; If there are two players available to you, 1 is a guy who you think will help you more in the short term, the other is a guy who you think will be a much better player in the long term which do you pick? Yes, the Bills are in win now mode (or should have been) but does that mean you ignore the future completely?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
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