Something I need to get off my chest.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 2:20 PM EST
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PrintThis has been bugging me for a while now, and I just have to come out and say it.
To all the ppl that want to throw our young player under the bus just because they aren't performing at superstar level immidietly when they come into the league: STOP.
This pertains in particular to every calling Maybin and Bell flops when they haven't even completed their first years of playing time yet. It goes for a lot of our other young players too (like Lynch, Hardy, Johnson, Fine, etc).
Give these guys time to develop. Not everyone that we draft or sign will become an instant superstar. In fact that only happens with about 2 percent of player. So CALM DOWN. Give these guys time to develop, learn the game, learn the intracacies of the pro game. Let them learn that they can't only depend on their phisical gifts to survive in the NFL.
These guys will be good, if not great players in the future. You just need to give them time to develop. They say that the usual mark to judge a draft class is three years. Some of you have dismissed them after 3 months.
GIVE THEM TIME PPL!!!!!!!!!
Just another great fan opinion shared on the pages of BuffaloRumblings.com.
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prove us wrong then
Aaron Maybin has looked completely over-matched in his rookie season; sorry, but for the 11th pick in the NFL Draft, that’s a legitimate concern. For a front office that has drafted very mediocre players in the first round with the likes of Losman, Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, and McKelvin, supporters of the team have no reason to believe anything other than what their eyes have seen: Maybin was just another miss.
I’ll agree that McCargo and Losman are mediocre players. Lynch went to the Pro-Bowl last year so mediocre he is not (but I will agree that he’s having an off year). McKelvin has barely played over a season and has a few pick 6’s already an is a fantastic return man, so he does qualify as developing and not mediocre. And Whitner is has the most tackles of any Bill over the last 4 years, so while he’s not the guy thats going to make the “big-plays” he is an increadibly versatile and dependable player.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Lynch isn’t a bad player by any means, but if you’re going to draft a RB 12th overall, he needs to be a stud and the fact that thnree years into his career, he’s objectively being outplayed by an undrafted teammate makes his selection a fairly poor draft pick. “Mediocre” doesn’t mean a bad player; it means ordinary. With that in mind, “mediocre” is exactly what you’d have to call Lynch and Whitner, both of whom are interchangeable in terms of impact with teammates of much lesser pedigree. The fact that McKelvin (all bad luck aside) was the 11th pick and won’t go into his 3rd season as a projected starter is a legitimate gripe. McCargo and Losman are bad players altogether at this point and at a very early stage that’s where Maybin is headed…once Maybin makes an impact on the field as a very good starting DE in the NFL, the criticism will end, but to this point, history indicates that day is unlikely to come with the Bills track frecord of first round picks.
The fact that McKelvin (all bad luck aside) was the 11th pick and won’t go into his 3rd season as a projected starter is a legitimate gripe.
He started this season as the starter why would he not project to be the starter next year?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
I assume because we have McGee and Florence who have been playing better
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
So we end up with 3 quality corners all competing for time as starters. Why would that bump Mckelvin down to mediocre stature? I say that this is a good thing.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
McKelvin might become a quality CB, but I wouldn't call him one yet
If he does, that would be a good thing. If he doesn’t, just add him to the long list of questionable players the Bills FO have wasted high draft picks on that have failed to perform up to where they were drafted.
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
Hey at the very least he ends up being a good nickel corner next year.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Florence was supposed to be the nickle guy. I would assume he would regain that role starting next year…
I guess the point is the McKelvin beat out Florence for the starting spot at the start of this year, why would we think he wouldn’t do it again?
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
McKelvin doesn’t have the benefit of a coaching staff that drafted him anymore, and if you recall, Florence began the year injured. I wouldn’t come right out and say that McKelvin beat out Florence for a starting job.
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by Brian Galliford on Dec 12, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
but the fact is that he was the starter to begin this year, which was expected right from the get go. I don’t know if anybody thought of the situation as anything other then the Mc’s to start and Florence as the nickle guy.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
A lot has changed since the beginning of the year......most of it bad :-(
"The Bills have no playoff aspirations" – Dan Dierdorf
I’ll unfortunatly have to agree on that one.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sure he was the starter to start the year
Too bad he’s never played like one. He was quite bad this year in his limited action, and with an offseason of trying to get healthy and improve, who knows if he’ll be able to win the starter’s job. I think Florence will have a big edge…
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Dec 12, 2009 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m in the middle on this one. I think Florence has played much better than McKelvin has. At the same time, a new coaching staff is going to see the potential and the few remaining years on McKelvin’s deal and give him every opportunity to become a starter and eventually a great player. It’s obviously way too soon to call McKelvin a bust or the even criticize his inability to get on the field, but the concerns are very valid.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
mckelvin can develop as the nickel (which I think he should have to begin with as I don’t think he was good enough to start) and still be a very solid player, maybe dynamic down the stretch… for whatever reason, the Jauron era has been defined by drafting a high number of project players who were either very young and immature (Lynch, McKelvin, Maybin) out of position (Wood, Levitre, Byrd [maybe others]) or undersized (Ellison, Maybin and most likely others)…. and there are probably some other variables in there as well… but this staff wasn’t up to the challenge of making good players out of these guys… or at least, they didn’t do it in the time allotted and could not surround them with enough veteran leadership to build anything substantial… they tried to do that, but it didn’t work
It's not all that bad.... Go Bills 2010 !!!!
I agree
Obviously, any new staff needs to give Leo every opportunity to prove he should be the starter. I’m just saying from what we’ve seen out of him and Florence that it wouldn’t be at all surprising if its Florence’s job to lose….
I wouldn’t call Leo a bust. There hasn’t been enough to prove one way or the other what he’ll amount to, but he’s looked pretty poor much of the time he’s been out there. I don’t know what he’ll amount to next year, but he has a long ways to go based on what we’ve seen.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
By this logic, supporters of the team are complete dim-bulbs then.
Thank you.
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 13, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed a Thousand times over.
The best line I’ve read all year here on Rumblers. Just because Keith Ellison leads the NFL in tackles doesn’t mean he’s good. Then WTF is it supposed to mean people. Enough arguement about Ellison, I agree CBF. Did you know that franchise quarter backs grow on trees as well. They are all just filing into Buffalo Airport.
We need to worry about making an average QB look good, because they don’t grow on trees. Heres another one. Lets trade all our above average talented players for future draft picks. Probably so we can complain about picking the wrong ones two years later.
There is no doubt we would get more player support on this site, if half the people new what they were saying was true instead of just blowing off opinion after opinion without all the facts.
Agreed and Received.
Excuses are a sign of weakness!!!!!!
I do not think that it is unreasonable for people to expect a top 15 pick in the draft to see playing time. If you look at the top 15 picks, Aaron Maybin and Andre Smith are the only ones who do not see significant playing time. I am not saying the kid is a bust. All I am saying is that its not unreasonable for people to expect their 1st round pick to make some contribution. Nobody is expecting him to be a pro bowl talent off the get go, but people should expect him to get more than 15 snaps a game. (if a qb is drafted in the first, I have no problem with him sitting on the bench for a year to learn the game)
1 Lions Matthew Stafford QB -Starter
2 Rams Jason Smith OT -Starter
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE – Starter
4 Seahawks Aaron Curry OLB – Starter
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB -Starter
6 Bengals Andre Smith OT – 2nd string, but injured for training camp and begining of season
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR – Starter
8 Jaguars Eugene Monroe OT – Starter
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT – Back up 16 tackles 1 sack
10 49ers Michael Crabtree WR – Starter
11 Bills Aaron Maybin DE – 4th or 5th DE
12 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB – Plays a lot
13 Redskins Brian Orakpo DE – Starter
14 Saints Malcolm Jenkins CB – Starter
15 Texans Brian Cushing -Starter
McKelvin didn’t see much action last year until one of our CBs went down with injury. Greer and McGee were just playing too well.
The same can be said of Aaron Schobel and Kelsay (to a much lesser extent). Schobel is having a good year and Kelsay is having a decent year (factoring out that they both suck at run defense).
It is hardly Maybin’s fault that two DEs on the roster are playing well this year. Unless Schobel completely regresses, he’s not coming off the field. Sure, I’d love to see Maybin playing opposite Schobel right now, but I can hardly blame him if he isn’t.
by NordicBillsfan on Dec 12, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Good Points
That was a good point about McKelvin. They drafted him because they knew that they would not be able to keep both Greer and McGee. You are right, Schobel should stay on the field. I think Maybin should be at worst a thrid DE. I think its bad when Ryan Denney gets on the field before him.
Maybin has become the third DE since Fewell took over. Look for him on the feild tomorrow, I garantee that you’ll see him more often then Denney.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Denney is also a versatile player, he can be put at DT, and he plays ST.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
DT what now? No DE of ours is capable of playing DT anywhere as far I know. Spencer Johnson, the lightest of our DTs at 285, will occasionally play DE for running downs but that’s all I’m aware of. 260 pound players do not get put into situations where they need to take on double teams from interior linemen. It’s not prudent.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 12, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
The Bills have used him there before, I never said he’s capable, I said he’s been asked to play there by the coaching staff, and has played there before.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
When Stroud and Williams were out he practiced there. He’s teh emergency DT but I don’t know if he’s ever played there except on obvious passing downs.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 14, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
personally, I think that any defensive end taken in the top 15 SHOULD be able to beat out Denney and Kelsay.
Is it too much to expect your top 15 pick DE to be playing better than Chris Kelsay having a decent year?
I get he is raw and very young, and that it will take time for him to develop, and Im happy he is a Bill. But the Bills are hardly in a position to use first round picks on young “project” guys
But the Bills are hardly in a position to use first round picks on young "project" guys.
Enirely agree. But Kelsay (like it or not) is having a career year. rght now he is the better end. And if you actually look at the the last 5 year’s drafts and at the DE’s that were immidietly put in a starting role as a rookie, only 2 of them have actually turned into good players players (Mario Williams and Tamba Hali). The rest are either Kelsay type DE’s or worst. Thats what happens when you rush a player into development.
I’d understand if Maybin was an LB, as LB’s generally have a very short learning curve. But He’s a DE, and their learning curve is usually very long.
So NO, Maybin should not be better then Kelsay this early in his career.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 13, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Is it too much to expect your top 15 pick DE to be playing better than Chris Kelsay having a decent year?
Actually, I think it is too much to expect that. It’s very rare for DEs not taken in the top few picks to start as rookies. Kelsay already has 51 tackles and 5 sacks this year. The 4-3 DEs to accumulate just 30 tackles and 3 or more sacks over a full season as rookies over the last 7 years goes: Chris Long, Gaines Adams, Mario Williams, Tambi Hali, Matthias Kiwinuka, Daryl Tapp and Trent Cole. That’s seven players in seven years to do half of what Kelsay has done this year and three of those guys were top three picks. Reasonable expectations for Maybin are tackle numbers similar to what he has and a few sacks as a situational player.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Nice.
Both awesome answers. I am psyched I get to have intellegent conversations about the Bills now.
I guess I’m just afraid he will turn to be a bust. But that remains to be seen in the next couple of years. Hopefully he will develop further in the offseason, and can learn from some of the players in the league with his skill set.
If you look at the top 15 picks, Aaron Maybin and Andre Smith are the only ones who do not see significant playing time.
Entirely agree and I entirely blame it on DJ. Since Fewell took over Maybin has seen a lot more playing time (generally being the first guy off the bench for both DE positions) and has also looked better. Its all about playing time and since Fewell took over maybin has finally been seeing some.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
and what do we have to show for his increased playing time?
Not a whole lot.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 12, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yet. He’s shown the ability to get good pressure on the QB in the last few games, forcing quick throws and bad throws. With expirience those QB pressures are going to turn into QB sacks. Just be patient a bit.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and the type of playing time that he’s getting now should have been the type of playing that he should have got all season long. Then if he was equaly unproductive I might agree with you.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Totally Agree
He should be the first DE off the bench. He cant be any worse than Denney. The only thing Denney does is put his arm up in the air when the QB is about to throw and hope to tip the ball because he is atleast 5 yards away from the QB because he couldnt even remotely generate a pass rush
No he hasn't
He’s hit the QB maybe a handful of times all year. He’s been overmatched 95% of the time.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
by Kurupt on Dec 13, 2009 1:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
While I agree he hasn’t. I think its more due to the fact that he takes himself out of plays than being overmatched. It seems like he is flying upfield and relying too much on his quickness off the ball. In time he’ll develop a little more physically and with coaching he’ll learn some actual moves to make him more effective.
But why do you think he's taking himself out of so many plays?
It’s because he’s overmatched going against OT’s one on one. He has to try and use a speed rush because he simply can’t beat them if they get their hands on him. So far, his first step and speed rush don’t look that good. Let’s just hope he has a strong offseason, because he will need it.
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
Interesting point. Perhaps it is also because at the college level he was able to get away with that speed and quickness off the edge and didn’t need to develop “hands on” skills. How much of a factor do you think the holdout cost him as far as development goes?
It didn’t help him any, but I think he’d be where he’s at now still. Plus we don’t have another speed rusher on the team to teach him anything. He the only one of his kind.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
How many teams have other speed rushers
to “teach” young guys anything?
What exactly would he be taught? How not to run 10 yards upfield and out of the play?
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
lol, that wouldn’t be a bad lesson actually.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 15, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
2 Rams Jason Smith OT -Starter – Was benched already this season for poor play and is struggling with injuries.
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE – Starter – Is a starter who has only 6 more tackles (and 0 sacks) than Maybin despite being the #3 pick, starting most of the season and playing on a team with no DEs. But we’ll conveniently leave that out to make a point.
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB -Starter – Has single handedly lost games for his team this year. Probably shouldn’t be the starter. Has stats that make Trent Edwards look good.
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR – Starter – Hahahahahahahah. Hahahahahahha. Has only 9 more receptions than Maybin. Lines up across from Chaz Schilens. Who? Exactly.
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT – Back up 16 tackles 1 sack That’s not much better than Maybin.
by twoeightnine on Dec 12, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The point was that they are getting significant playing time. I do not expect rookies to put up huge numbers. But they are getting on the field and getting experience. Up until a few weeks ago, Maybin was not even seeing the field. Heyward Bay may suck but hes out there getting reps, same goes with Jackson and Raji. Sanchez stats suck as well but he is getting playing time.
But they're getting playing time only because there's nothing in front of them.
The 3 guys ahead of him, while making some of their normal mistakes, have actually played fairly well this season. There was no reason to throw Maybin out there just to get him some experience. (There is now that the season is DOA.) Especially since he missed training camp.
Just look at Jackson. The Chiefs have only 5! DL on their entire roster and 1 of those is injured. If Jackson wasn’t getting playing time I’d be incredibly scared.
by twoeightnine on Dec 12, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but you can’t blame the amount of reps that a rookie gets on the rookie. You have to blame the coaches the refuse to put him on the feild. The fact that Maybin wasn’t getting any playing time wasn’t Maybin’s fault, it was Jauron’s.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Of course you can blame the player for not getting playing time. If he shows no ability to do basic football tasks, the coach has to keep him out. That said, I don’t think that’s the case here. Jauron just never was pre-disposed to giving rookies much playing time. It’s his conservative nature.
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by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 12, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
I couldn’t disagree with that more. Jauron didn’t even bother to give Whitner, Poz, Lynch, Wood or Levitre real competition. Byrd and Nelson were in this year’s plans and Maybin has continued to play even though he hasn’t been effective. Hardy was forced onto the field last year, failed miserably and was finally put back on the sidelines. Kyle Williams and Trent Edwards were starting in no time. Brad Butler and McKelvin were handed jobs without much competition their 2nd season. Ellison, Ko Simpson and Derek Fine all took over jobs due to injury. Few teams have played rookies like the Bills have. They’re the opposite of a team that is unwilling to play young players.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I’m not sure that the players that replaced injured players are really a valid point. Of course, if your first option goes down, you don’t have much choice with who you have left that’s capable. Lynch, Wood, and Levitre play positions where there’s not a lot of learning curve.
You’re right that I shouldn’t have said young players. I meant rookies. And with Whitner and Poz, you’re right that they started from day one. It looked to me that they had those players cherry-picked for starting roles from the get-go though, given that they traded up for Poz and the consensus is they “reached” for Whitner.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Dec 13, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
And to add to that, Malcolm Jenkins has only made a couple starts and done so with both Greer and Tracy Porter injured.
And how many DEs picked in that 5-15 (or 5 to the rest of the draft) actually start as rookies? It’s not really fair to compare a 4-3 DE like Maybin to RBs, LBs and top 5 picks.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
I don' t think that says a whole lot.
It’s not clear that several of those guys are doing their teams much good by starting. Teams often put the best money on the field instead of the best player, as measured by current ability.
by Sixteenthback on Dec 12, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Bell doesn't get a pass with the disappointment card.
He’s showing everyone that he’s a bit injury-prone. This line needs warriors right now, not projects.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 12, 2009 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Bell is what he is. We all knew that he would struggle this year and we all knew that he shouldn’t be a starter. Once again I’ll put the blame on the coaching staff for pushing him too hard, too fast. I will however agree that he has shown a tendancy to be injury prone. But then again this is his first year so I’m not ready to label him as an injury prone guy either. Oh and btw, our entire team has shown the tendancy to be injury prone this year.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think it could be the coaches trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice with how Peters ended up. And yes the word is that Bell has the raw ability to be a good LT, that comes with coaching. But lets not forget that it was Jim McNally that was the Offensive line coach and not Kuglar that developed Peters.
If you are complaining about Bell, look at the three OT’s taken in the top 15 on MarkyMarko’s list up above. Jason Smith, the #2 overall pick, has been having a very rough time this year for the Rams, getting benched for poor play and missing time with lots of injuries. And remember that they put him at RT, not LT. Andre Smith has missed most of the season with an injury and has not looked very sharp since he has come back into the lineup (understandably, since he missed so much time). And Eugene Monroe, the #8 overall pick for the Jags has given up 8 sacks and been benched for poor play. Bell by comparison gave up 5 sacks this year.
Put that all together and Bell has performed as well or better than the top three OT’s taken in the 2009 draft. It’s true that Oher has done better, and has managed to stay uninjured so far this year (perhaps one reason he has done better). Even so, those calling for the Bills to use a top ten draft pick on a LT next year should realize that they are not likely to get a performance in 2010 that will be much better than Bell’s this past year. OT’s often make significant improvements in their second year as a starter (see Ferguson, D’Brickshaw, as a good example of that). The Bills might be much better advised to wait and see what Bell looks like next year before using a high pick on a player who might turn out to duplicate what they already have. (We DO need a RT, but you find them in rounds two and three.)
Bell by comparison gave up 5 sacks this year.
In how many games, though? I think Bell gets a pass for the disappointment card simply because I didn’t have high hopes but he gave up too many sacks and got called for too many penalties.
And P.S. I think the three OTs you mentioned don’t get a pass and are big disappointments. Especially when you consider Jake Long and Joe Thomas’ success in Miami and Cleveland over the last couple years.
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 14, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
i hope your right
orakpo on a stinky team is showing a hell of a lot more than maybin… i hope your right for our sake…
Me too. I’m just sick of ppl bashing them when they are 3 months into their rookie season.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
This guy had ONE good year in college football.......
its not like there wasnt tons of questions about the guy before he even declared……it was a definite reach for the Bills…..there were people (I mostly talking about me here, but there are others) who didnt think it was a good selection in the first place…..and alot of our fears have been confirmed so far.
You know there is a problem with the education system when you realize that out of the 3 R's only one begins with an R. - Dennis Miller
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 12, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
idk if i’d call it a reach, he would of went in the top 15 anyway. Out of the next 7 picks after Maybin a DE or a OLB was taken, he wouldn’t of lasted too much longer.
"Security comes from earning it--not seeking it." Marv Levy
Agreed that he didn’t prove much in college, and that he was a slight reach that was drafted more on potential then on what he had already done. Totally agree on that. But that doesn’t mean that we have to throw him under the bus for only being slightly productive with extremely limited playing time.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Maybin was a big time college recruit and 2nd team all Maryland coming out of high school. And he had 4 sacks as a freshman, so it isn’t like he burst out of nowhere. He was drafted as a redshirt sophomore, so obviously he wasn’t going to enter the college season with any hype. How much did we hear about Ryan Mallett, Earl Thomas or Chris Galippo before this season started? By contrast, Orakpo had 5 sacks as a soph and 5.5 as a Jr, so it isn’t like most DEs are big time college superstars right off the bat.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
A stinky team with the #9 defense
and a crap-ton of talent around him.
by twoeightnine on Dec 12, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with a lot of what you say here CBF. I guess I would put it like this, and really this goes for almost any intelligent discussion anywhere not just here on Rumblings; When people go overboard and get crazy with comparisons and give totally unrealistic expectations it ruins and clouds what might be an otherwise valid point. For example; if I am one of those who is very unhappy with one Aaron Maybin and I say something like :
“This kid is a bust!, He should have 10 sacks by now! He was taken ahead of Orakpo and he has 7 sacks so Maybin should have more. He’s crap!”
That just makes me look like a fool who knows very little about football. If however I keep it within the realms of sanity and realism and say something like; “Jeez, I hope Maybin starts to show something soon, he is being out performed by guys chosen lower then him and I am nervous that he might not live up to his #11 overall draft status.” That makes me sound like I’m not acting like a nut.
Really this is all about how you make your points. No the Bills haven’t drafted well. Yes as fans we have the right to expect better. What we have to do is realize that there is no team in the NFL who has a 100% perfect draft percentage of their 1st and 2nd round picks. It just doesn’t happen. Have the Bills missed more then they have hit? I guess that depends on your definition of a hit and of a miss.
One thing that I think CBF says here that we all could do is use a little patience when evaluating picks. Yes, I know this team hasn’t made the playoffs in forever and it is tough to have said patience, but rushing expectations on rookies and second year players is the best way to set yourself up for disappointment.
No weekend spent pantsless is a wasted weekend.
by sireric on Dec 12, 2009 7:04 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Thank you Eric. This is exactly what I ment. I guess that your just a bit more diplomatic then me. ;-)
Let me make this clear ppl. I don’t think that Maybin, Bell & Co. are without reproach. To the contrary, they have been disapointments so far. What I am saying though is that it is far too early to call them busts and we must give them the right amount of time, and the right oppertunities to develop properly. Only after that has happened can we truly evaluate them as players. I just think that A LOT of ppl at jumping the gun on a lot of our young players, and I’m get rather tired of it.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 12, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Eric and CBF are exactly right. You have to have patience with young players. A perfect example would be the three pass catchers that the Redskins drafted in 2008 — Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis (at TE). All three looked shaky their first year and have started to come on strong the last few weeks (i.e., midway through their second year). Thomas especially is starting to look like the Pro Bowler a number of us expected he would be (I wanted the Bills to make him their first round pick after trading down a bit and I would still insist he would have been a much better choice than McKelvin). Hardy might be showing the same progress if he hadn’t been injured late last year and if he was given the chance to get on the field now. He actually had a slightly better rookie season than Devin Thomas if you look at the stats. It all shows that we need to be patient.
That said, I’m still surprised we haven’t seen at least one flash of promise from Maybin so far. Perhaps we will today.
No the Bills haven’t drafted well. Yes as fans we have the right to expect better. What we have to do is realize that there is no team in the NFL who has a 100% perfect draft percentage of their 1st and 2nd round picks. It just doesn’t happen
Great post. Rec’d
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
Let it ride............
… our team is young, full of injuries, and lots of guys who shouldn’t be starters, have gained valuable experience and will be great backups next year when the starters come back. After a good draft, I think we are actually in a great position for next year. We SHOULD be ahead of the Patsies if not choking in a few games. This young team is closer than you all think. If only we had a QB.
Marky Mark from Alabama just won the Heisman. Good.
Sidenote: Colt standing next to Tebow looks like Flutie standing next to Kelly.
I DO NOT want Colt drafted by the Bills.
"A failure becomes just one time at bat if you refuse to let it defeat you." Marv Levy.
by SERGEANT MAJOR THOR on Dec 12, 2009 9:00 PM EST reply actions
I understand that people want to see these kids get on the field and play because I feel exactly the same way. But people need to understand how things work and that coaches don’t make decisions based on what the fans want to learn about players. We talk about finding things out about young players as if there is absolutely nothing that we already know (because … welll, we often don’t). But coaches watch these kids practice and sit through film sessions all week long. Maybe a coach doesn’t need to put Hardy into the game to see what he can do and maybe there’s nothing that can be learned yet from a Nic Harris or Brian Brohm.
Another thing to consider is that fans typically overrate their young players. Every team has promising players sitting on the bench. We’re not the only team with a Steve Johnson, Hardy, Harris, Brohm, Bell, etc…. Every team has these types of players and every team’s fans are probably desperate to learn if they’re for real.
I also understand the rush to judge players. ESPN and the other media has turned the NFL into a one week league where all that matters is whatever just happened and whatever might happen the following sunday. It borders on hilarity watching the media talk about a team as if they’re terrible after a loss and then one week later, after a win, they talk about how they’re destined for the playoffs.
Trouble occurs when you do both of those at the same time. We can’t force players onto the field and then still be critical of their performance. If you want to see a 21 year old Maybin, then I get it because I want to see him too, but let’s not freak out if he’s slightly worse than other 21 year old rookie DEs. And Bell got forced onto the field, but let’s not be overly critical of him just yet. He was the single most raw player selected in 2008. And with those thoughts, I think that you’re onto something CFB. This is a good fanpost.
I think the easiest solution is for us to all slow down our expectations for young players, especially mid and late round picks.
I signed up for Second Life about a year ago. Back then my life was so great that I literally wanted a second one. In my Second Life I was also a paper salesman and I was also named Dwight. Absolutely everything was the same. Except I could fly. - Dwight Schrute
by kaisertown on Dec 12, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Why aren’t you green
Bills fan? In Colorado? It's more likely than you think.
by UZ on Dec 13, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
We can’t force players onto the field and then still be critical of their performance. If you want to see a 21 year old Maybin, then I get it because I want to see him too, but let’s not freak out if he’s slightly worse than other 21 year old rookie DEs.
That’s the stuff…
"Play like hell and win." - Perry Fewell
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by MattRichWarren on Dec 13, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Maybin was already set up to be further behind/worse than his other DE draft-mates: he missed the entirety of training camp. My disappointment in him is with that situation, not that he’s been nearly invisible. At least he hasn’t committed any flagrant penalties.
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by TheAfghanTwilight on Dec 13, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
on top of that you always see him shouting on the sidelines trying to fire up the team.
by NordicBillsfan on Dec 13, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly! The kids attitude, working habits and training habits are all top notch. Its only a matter of time until the on feild habits catches up with the off feild habits.
by CanadianBillsFan on Dec 13, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
There is a word you used there: IF. Your case is weak until he has had time to determine whether you have a point or not. All of you Orakpo lovers fail to recognize that they are essentially playing two different positions and the Orakpo has much more talent around him.
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